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Posts From the Internet Film Discussion Group, a_film_by
This group is dedicated to discussing film as art
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2001
From: George Robinson
Date: Mon Sep 15, 2003 6:24pm
Subject: Re: Re: A Hawksian Inside Joke?
Many thanks.
I have passed this along to my wife in the hope that it will convince her I
am not completely daft.
Or is that asking too much?
g
Cry later, but for now let's enjoy the laughter.
--Tupac Shakur, "God Bless the Dead"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Henrik Sylow"
To:
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:21 AM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: A Hawksian Inside Joke?
> As I remember it, it was a blunder from Hepburn, so she "improvised"
> calling Grant "Jerry the Nipper" (from his previous film "The Awful
> Truth") and Grant, being quick on his feet, responds "its something
> she saw at the movies."
>
> And why throw something as wonderful as this out?
>
> Perhaps I remember wrong, but I also have a question on "Bringing up
> Baby"... Is it true that Dudley Nichols wrote the story "based" on the
> relationship between Hepburn and John Ford?
>
>
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
> wrote:
> > My wife and I were watching the last fifteen minutes of Bringing Up
> Baby
> > this evening on TCM and they got to the part when Susan (Hepburn)
> identifies
> > David (Grant) as the notorious "Jerry the Nipper." I turned to my
> wife and
> > said that I remembered reading somewhere that this was an inside
> joke on the
> > part of either Hawks, Hepburn or Grant but couldn't remember any
> more than
> > that and, after searching through several books on Hawks was unable
> to
> > further enlighten her.
> >
> > Anybody remember anything about this, or am I just having another
> acid
> > flashback from the 1970s?
> >
> > George (Wow, man, I saw God and Elmer Fudd and . . . .) Robinson
> >
> > Cry later, but for now let's enjoy the laughter.
> >
> > --Tupac Shakur, "God Bless the Dead"
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
2002
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon Sep 15, 2003 7:31pm
Subject: Re: Jack Smight Has Died
Wow.
He was very underrated. "Harper," "No Way to Treat a
Lady" and "The Travelling Executioner" are all
excellent films.
--- Damien Bona wrote:
> Jack Smight died on September 1st of cancer. I
> didn't see any
> obituaries, but a friend just informed me. He was
> 78.
>
>
>
>
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2003
From: filipefurtado
Date: Mon Sep 15, 2003 7:52pm
Subject: Re: Jack Smight Has Died
> Wow.
>
> He was very underrated. "Harper," "No Way to Treat a
> Lady" and "The Travelling Executioner" are all
> excellent films.
>
I've seen only No Way to Treat a Lady and Midway. Both have
their moments, the scenes between Segal and Ramick in Lady
are wonderful (to bad the tired serial killer plot get so
much screen time.
Filipe
> --- Damien Bona wrote:
> > Jack Smight died on September 1st of cancer. I
> > didn't see any
> > obituaries, but a friend just informed me. He was
> > 78.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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2004
From: Dave Garrett
Date: Mon Sep 15, 2003 7:55pm
Subject: Re: Film books
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Frederick M. Veith" wrote:
> Fred Camper wrote:
>
> >The Archeology of the Cinema, by C. W. Ceram There are apparently a lot
> >of problems with this book, lots of factual errors, and there's stuff in
> >French that's supposed to be much better. BUT: it's heavily illustrated,
> >and it opened up the world of pre-cinema for me, the connections between
> >cinema and all those other things. Reading it helped me formulate a
> >somewhat fanciful anti-cinema argument -- that is, it occurred to me
> >that there's a way in which this stuff is "better." (If someone knows of
> >something much better on the subject, illustrated well (which seems key
> >for such things), preferably in English but also in French, please post).
>
> I couldn't say whether it's 'much better' as I don't know the book you
> referenced at all. Neither have I seen the book I'm about to suggest, as
> it's rather expensive ($42.50 in paper/$95 in hardcover) and I haven't had
> a chance to examine it at a library yet. Nevertheless, I think that this
> is probably worth a look:
>
> The Great Art of Light and Shadow: Archaeology of the Cinema, by Laurent
> Mannoni, translated and edited by Richard Crangle, introduction by Tom
> Gunning (Exeter Studies in Film History/University of Exeter Press)
Mannoni also edited a magnificent volume published under the auspices of Le Giornate del Cinema Muto and the BFI entitled LIGHT AND MOVEMENT. Or LUCE E MOVIMENTO, or LUMIERE ET MOUVEMENT, as the text is trilingual, being in Italian and French as well as English. Unlike the books referenced above, which are narrative histories, LIGHT consists of primary source documents of the precinema era (hence its subtitle "Incunabula of the Motion Picture"), ranging from essays and other writings by key figures to patents. It's hard to find and pricey but well worth seeking out for those with an interest in this subject.
Useless trivia: "C. W. Ceram" was a _nom de plume_ for Kurt Marek, who authored quite a few books on wide-ranging subjects as "Ceram".
Dave
2005
From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:19pm
Subject: Jack Smight
Speaking of Harper... He was a good director who managed to
deal honorably - or at least objectively! - with some pretty
eccentric projects.
2006
From: George Robinson
Date: Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:39pm
Subject: Fw: [PnP] Hallmark or Viacom to aquire Carlton film library?
Interesting item from the Powell-Pressburger e-mail group. Too bad it's Hallmark, 'cause they don't letterbox and they have commercials.
George (I Brake for Letterboxed Films) Robinson
Cry later, but for now let's enjoy the laughter.
--Tupac Shakur, "God Bless the Dead"
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Crook
To: PnP@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:43 PM
Subject: [PnP] Hallmark or Viacom to aquire Carlton film library?
The Observer
Sunday September 14, 2003
Jessica Hodgson
Fears grow over ITV asset-stripping
Fears are mounting that US broadcasters are waiting to asset-strip ITV after
the revelation
that US media group Hallmark is sizing up its library and production
businesses. The
entertainment group, owned by the Hallmark greetings card giant, was
revealed last week
to be looking at the assets of Carlton and Granada.
Hallmark has confirmed that it is attracted by specific parts of the
business rather than an
overall purchase. 'There are some library assets and production assets there
that we are
interested in,' said a spokesman.
The revelation comes amid speculation that US broad casters, including
Viacom and Time
Warner, are interested in Carlton and Granada. Viacom chief operating
officer Mel Karmazin
will tell a TV conference in Cambridge this week of his company's interest
in the UK.
But the move has alarmed powerful opponents of the Government's plans to
liberalise
the UK broadcasting industry.
'This is exactly the concern we had over the Communications Bill,' said
Liberal Democrat
peer Lord McNally, a member of the Media Select Committee, which attempted
to impose
a ban on foreign ownership of ITV. 'We didn't envisage this happening quite
so quickly.'
'The justification for open ing ITV up to foreign ownership was to have
strong
management, but there is a clear danger of asset-stripping.'
He plans to raise the issue with Broadcasting Minister Lord McIntosh.
Carlton and Granada are waiting to learn whether they have the Government's
approval
to merge.
Steve's note: It was the recently defunct Carlton Cinema channel that used
to show
a lot of P&P films and many of them have been released on DVD or video on
the
Carlton label.
_________________________________________________________________
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2007
From: Patrick Ciccone
Date: Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:47am
Subject: V. F. Perkins on the director's role
From FILM AS FILM:
The director is the only member of the production team who can see
(whose job it is to see) the whole film rather than particular
aspects, the interrelationship of the parts rather than the parts as
separate tasks. As Max Ophuls expressed it: "There are many creators
to a film as there are people who work on it. My job as director
consists of making out of this choir of people a creator of films."
The director takes charge at the point where the components of the
film have been assembled and they await their organization into
synthesis. From this point those components are going willy-nilly to
enter into relationship. Their interaction can be mutually enriching,
controlled and coherent. Since it will exist, it is best that it
exist to positive effect. Correlation occurs within the image,
between images, and across the film's complete time-span. Change must
take place. But organized, significant change is development.
Actors, designers, writers, photographers contribute major components
of this development; the director is best placed to design the
development itself. Being in charge of relationships, of synthesis,
he is in charge of what makes a film a _film_.
Direction can determine which objects and actions are to be seen as
foreground and which as background. By controlling balance between
the elements, by creating a coherence of emphasis, it can control the
priorities of significance and so shape the movie's theme. The more
closely it is adjusted, the more intimately personal the balance is
likely to become. Density of interrelationship between parts is both
the source of contained significance and the touchstone of style.
Style and meaning are twin products of syntheses; they do not result
from a simple accumulation of independent statements by actors and
technicians.
A film may assemble a number of such "statements" and they may well be
interesting in themselves. To this extent it can usefully be seen as
a group work. But if the film's form embodies a viewpoint, explored
in depth and with complexity, it is almost certain to the director's.
He is in control throughout the period in which virtually all the
significant relationships are defined. He has possession of the means
through which all other contributions acquire meaning _within_ the film.
2008
From: jrosenbaum2002
Date: Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:28am
Subject: Re: Eisenschitz on Ray
For the record, Tom Milne is every bit as much a stickler about these
matters as Bernard is, and, within my experience, is even more
conscientious about his translations--if such a thing is possible.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> Whatever the translator might do if let to his own devices,
> Bernard would never have allowed him to retranslate French
> quotes - he's a stickler from way back, and fluently bilingual.
2009
From:
Date: Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:54am
Subject: Re: Jack Smight Has Died
Was saddened to hear this news.
Years ago, Smight's TV-movie "Partners in Crime" (1973) also seemed
appealing. This had Lee Grant as a judge who takes on private detective work, with a
tough male partner. It was several years before the flood of prose private eye
novels with women shamuses started hitting America. This film has not been seen
anywhere for decades - hope it is carefully preserved someplace.
Smight did much of his apprenticeship in "prestige" dramatic TV series c1960,
such as "The Naked City", "Route 66", "Arrest and Trial". I never got to see
any of these shows as a kid - they were on after my bed time! And as black and
white TV, they are rarely revived today. In their day, they were highly
regarded by critics.
Mike Grost
2010
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:01pm
Subject: Naked City
Mike,
My friend Marvin showed me sixteens of several Naked City episodes
when he worked at Columbia. An excellent series which preserved the
values of the drama anthology series of the 50s in a cop series
format that was the opposite of Dragnet (which I also loved): the
focus each week was on the criminal, who always seems to have been a
troubled person rather than a pro. The cops were completely
colorless. William Graham directed many fine episodes. The later ones
were particularly ambitious script-wise, and had very long
meaningless titles - an affectation of other quality series at the
time. The last episode aired, as I recall, was Graham's, "Stop the
Parade, a Baby Is Crying," and started off with a little three-man
band playing in the snow like the one in Mr. Arkadin. Kershner also
did some episodes.
Marvin also showed me a Route 66 that was directed by Altman: one put-
of-focus shot and two dialogue overlaps were all that betrayted his
presence.
I gather that Warners has finally started showing its black and white
tv episodes. A friend made me a copy of the excellent Silent Caper
episode of 77 Sunset Strip recently. So there's hope for those series
someday as well.
The Cahiers claim that we are now in the Golden Age of Series may be
true. Did you watch 24? Did anyone? CSI: Crime Scene Investigation?
Etc? I still don't have tv, but I've started looking at some of this
stuff on DVD and cassette, and it's not bad, for tv! Marvin, who sees
all and knows all, tells me that Carnavale on HBO kicked off well
this week. Please, though, don't anyone tell me how great The
Sopranos is. Not my cup of tea, and I'm fully aware that it's
probably an aberration on my part.
Also, the FOUR categories develeoped by Jean-Claude Biette to
distinguish types and qualities of helmers - director, meteur-en-
scen, auteur, filmmaker (highest rank) - becomes a necessity in
talking about this stuff. Stephen Hopkins, the director of 24, is a
good metteur-en-scene, period.
2011
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:17pm
Subject: Re: Naked City
Much of "Naked City" was written by Howard Rodman --
father of screenwriter Howard Rodman ("Joe Gould's
Secret")
--- hotlove666 wrote:
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2012
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:20pm
Subject: The High and the Smighty
Among Jack Smight's most important credits is the
excellent two-part telefilm "Frankenstein: The True
Story," which was written by Christopher Isherwood and
Don Bachardy.
Auteurists will yowl, but this is Chris and Don's
movie all the way. Props to Smight and James Mason for
his great performance as Dr. Polidori.
__________________________________
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2013
From: George Robinson
Date: Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:43pm
Subject: Film Society's print of Ozu's
Cry later, but for now let's enjoy the laughter.
--Tupac Shakur, "God Bless the Dead"
2014
From: George Robinson
Date: Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:49pm
Subject: Print of Ozu's Late Autumn
First of all, my apologies for the previous -- blank -- e-mail. My grasp of
Outlook Express leaves something to be desired.
Saw a press screening of Late Autumn as part of the Ozu retro at Lincoln
Center coming up. The print is extraordinary, the best I've seen of any of
his color films. It is absolutely crystal-clear and I can't imagine the film
looked any better the day it was released in 1960.
As for the film, it is as lovely as I remembered, one of his most jovial
late films, but as always with an underlying melancholy.
George Robinson
Cry later, but for now let's enjoy the laughter.
--Tupac Shakur, "God Bless the Dead"
2015
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 3:07am
Subject: An unremarked anniversary
August 31 of this year marked the 30th anniversary of the death of John Ford. Since the massive UCLA-LA County Museum of Art (LACMA) retrospective of 1994 few Ford films have been revived (and I would guess that not many of his approximately 90 extant movies/tv shows are available in some home video format or other.)
The conventional wisdom is that he should have retired after The Searchers and that the films he made during the 1960s were particularly bad. Some perceptive people have rightly defended The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence and Seven Women but the other pictures from that period have received scant attention. Only Janey Place and Tag Gallagher have discussed the rest of his 1960s movies in depth (as far as I know.)
In my view, a strong case could be made for Two Rode Together and Donovan's Reef, with Cheyenne Autumn being less than the sum of its parts but still worthy.
One final thought about Jack Smight. During his working life as a director he was not underrated: Harper and No Way to Treat a Lady did good box office and got excellent reviews at the time of their release. As a teenage autuerist I denigrated Smight because the aforementioned Seven Women (same year as Harper) and The Legend of Lylah Clare (contemporary with No Way to Treat a Lady) were mercilessly panned. But since seeing a 16mm print of Harper a couple of years ago I came to appreciate Smight's small virtues.
Richard Modiano
Mar Vista
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2016
From: Damien Bona
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 3:13am
Subject: Re: Naked City
Two Naked City DVDs (4 episodes each) were released recently. No
Smights included, though -- the directors represented are the
estimable John Brahm, Tay Garnett and Buzz Kulick, as well as David
Lowell Rich, Elliot SIlverstein and Arthur Hiller. One of the
selling points of the series was the New York location work, and that
continues to be fascinating; the writing is quite literate.
Howard Rodman would later go on to create what I consider the best
dramatic television series ever, the detective show Harry O, with
David Janssen, which ran from 1974-76.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
The later ones
> were particularly ambitious script-wise, and had very long
> meaningless titles - an affectation of other quality series at the
> time.
LOL, Bill. I remember Ben Casey having particularly pompous episode
titles, and I looked up the program on the Internet. Some of the
more overwrought titles are: Odyssey of a Proud Suitcase; So Oft It
Chances in Particular Men; And Even Death Shall Die; Dispel the
Black Cyclone That Shakes the Throne; The Last Splintered Spoke on
the Old Burlesque Wheel; Goodbye to Blue Elephants and Such; Onions
and Mustard Seed Will Make Her Weep; A Rambling Discourse on
Egyptian Water Clocks; and Pull The Wool Over Your Eyes, Here Comes
The Cold Wind Of Truth.
2017
From: iangjohnston
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 3:43am
Subject: Re: Naked City
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
> The Cahiers claim that we are now in the Golden Age of Series may
be
> true. Did you watch 24? Did anyone? CSI: Crime Scene
Investigation?
> Etc? I still don't have tv, but I've started looking at some of
this
> stuff on DVD and cassette, and it's not bad, for tv! Marvin, who
sees
> all and knows all, tells me that Carnavale on HBO kicked off well
> this week. Please, though, don't anyone tell me how great The
> Sopranos is. Not my cup of tea, and I'm fully aware that it's
> probably an aberration on my part.
>
> Also, the FOUR categories develeoped by Jean-Claude Biette to
> distinguish types and qualities of helmers - director, meteur-en-
> scen, auteur, filmmaker (highest rank) - becomes a necessity in
> talking about this stuff. Stephen Hopkins, the director of 24, is
a
> good metteur-en-scene, period.
"Not bad for tv" is pretty much my reaction, too. And I'm similarly
unimpressed by The Sopranos.
Shouldn't that be "the Cahiers claimed" (past tense)? From the
latest issue it looks like Frodon is going to jetison all the
coverage of TV/videoclips/videogames/the Internet etc -- presumably
no reality TV shows will make their top ten of the year in the
future.
And, from the latest Cahiers, Eric Rohmer: "I detest the word
director [realisateur], besides I never use it because the entire
artistic dimension is thereby denied. A filmmaker [cineaste] worthy
of the name leaves his mark on the work in its finished form,
whether or not he is the author of the screenplay. The only
difference is that when someone like me writes his films, he thinks
of the mise en scene right from this moment, while other auteurs
undertake this only at a later stage."
Ian Johnston
2018
From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 4:50am
Subject: Re: Print of Ozu's Late Autumn
Has anyone ascertained how this retro compares with the revelatory one here (and elsewhere) a decade ago? Is it about new prints & lots of them (many of the prints back then were poor), with a few (there can't be that many...?) added items (plus of course symposia)? After the '90s retro, I waited and waited for a reprise -- is this, essentially, finally it (now that I've no longer any time) or is it in fact something more? If only such a retro could be done in two stages -- the immersion program (for those with the stamina and means), followed (or preceded) by a more leisurely unreeling over the space of six months or a year. I've almost come to dread retrospectives because of their finality.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson" wrote:
>
> Saw a press screening of Late Autumn as part of the Ozu retro at Lincoln
> Center coming up. The print is extraordinary, the best I've seen of any of
> his color films. [...]
2019
From:
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:05am
Subject: Re: Re: Rafelson's No Good Deed
In a message dated 9/14/03 1:37:28 AM, mpfeiffer@o... writes:
>(SPOILER) Peter, did the shot of Jovovich walking away at the end
>remind you of THE THIRD MAN? Don't know that it is intended to or
>what it would add, but that's what occurred to me at the time.
I did think of "The Third Man" and also - for some reason - the final shot of
"To Have and Have Not"; maybe it's just I have Hawks on the brain lately with
all these great recent posts about him!
Despite the low budget vibe both Mark and I got from this film, I didn't feel
Rafelson ever allowed it to hamper his visual design - rather like
Bogdanovich on the $6 million "The Cat's Meow," which was a real work of mise en scene
despite some idiotic review in the New York Times which claimed something to
the contrary at the time. Anyway, Rafelson packs "No Good Deed" with unusual
and memorable visual flourishes (check out the car scene he photographs from the
rearview mirrors, mentioned by Mark on another forum.)
And the Monkees song just confirms my belief that this film, slight as it is,
serves as a kind of compendium of some of Rafelson's favorite things.
Peter
http://hometown.aol.com/ptonguette/index.html
2020
From:
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:11am
Subject: Re: Rafelson
In a message dated 9/13/03 12:20:30 PM, hotlove666@y... writes:
>I kind of enjoyed Man Trouble, too,
>but on a different level. Carol Eastman also wrote The Shooting and
>The Fortune - Man Trouble is closer to the latter than to the former,
>but it's still enjoyable.
"The Shooting" is, of course, indisputably great, but I actually rather like
"The Fortune" too. I'm a sucker for screen farce and, more importantly, it
was the last of the "long take" Mike Nichols films made during that great run he
had from '65 to '75. In the films made during that period, Nichols achieved
a kind of perfection in his mise en scene: preferring hugely complex takes
which, despite the director's stage background, always felt cinematic because he
did so much with blocking and camera movement. Nichols took a long break
after "The Fortune" and he returned a much more conventional filmmaker
stylistically speaking.
In any case, "Man Trouble" is, I believe, the one Rafelson feature I've not
seen, so I'll try to check it out sometime.
Peter
http://hometown.aol.com/ptonguette/index.html
2021
From: George Robinson
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 9:14am
Subject: Re: Re: Print of Ozu's Late Autumn
I honestly don't know the answer to the basic question but this is a
complete retrospective, showing everything that is extant, with live musical
accompaniment for all the silents,
and Shochiku has struck new prints for many of the films (possibly all).
The other important addition is that the new prints are the prelude to most
if not all of the films being made available on Japanese DVD (albeit without
subtitles) and Criterion has apparently already got a deal with Shochiku for
several American DVDs (beginning with their Tokyo Story release this month
or October -- I don't recall which).
Also, there will be two days of panel discussions, which look quite
interesting.
The complete listing with descriptions of the films is at:
http://www.filmlinc.com/nyff/ozu.htm
George Robinson
Cry later, but for now let's enjoy the laughter.
--Tupac Shakur, "God Bless the Dead"
----- Original Message -----
From: "jess_l_amortell"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 12:50 AM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Print of Ozu's Late Autumn
> Has anyone ascertained how this retro compares with the revelatory one
here (and elsewhere) a decade ago? Is it about new prints & lots of them
(many of the prints back then were poor), with a few (there can't be that
many...?) added items (plus of course symposia)? After the '90s retro, I
waited and waited for a reprise -- is this, essentially, finally it (now
that I've no longer any time) or is it in fact something more? If only such
a retro could be done in two stages -- the immersion program (for those with
the stamina and means), followed (or preceded) by a more leisurely unreeling
over the space of six months or a year. I've almost come to dread
retrospectives because of their finality.
>
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson" wrote:
> >
> > Saw a press screening of Late Autumn as part of the Ozu retro at Lincoln
> > Center coming up. The print is extraordinary, the best I've seen of any
of
> > his color films. [...]
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
2022
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 10:19am
Subject: Re: Naked City, Tay Garnett, Erratum
Damien,
That's great news! The Casey titles are too funny to have been made
up.
Your mention of Tay Garnett as a Naked City guy raises a question for
the group: Who thinks Tay Garnett (Expressive Esoterica) was a very
good filmmaker, in serious need of revaluation, retrospecting etc?
Greg Ford turned me on to him many years ago, and few "minor"
directors have given me more pleasure since. The formal qualities of
wonderful films like Postman, Seven Sinners, Her Man, Stand-In, One
Way Passage, Wild Harvest and Cause for Alarm are highlighted
brilliantly in eccentric experiments like SOS Iceberg or Trade Winds
(an entire film made against rear projection). Greg thought that the
primal influence was Chaplin.
Pardon my Alzheimer's: The camerman for It's All True was Harry
Wilding, before George Fanto came on board for the Fortaleza shoot.
2023
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 10:21am
Subject: Cahiers
Ian,
I haven't seen the new Cahiers yet. The Rohmer quote sounds like
Biette.
2024
From: Robert Keser
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 0:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: Naked City, Tay Garnett, Erratum
I maintain that Seven Sinners is a near perfect studio confection,
successfully and wittily characterizing a huge cast (rivalled only by
Only Angels Have Wings) in the interests of poking vigorous fun
at the Sadie Thompson archetype, while also reinventing Marlene
Dietrich's persona at the center of the movie (unlike Destry Rides
Again) and providing John Wayne with his first romantic lead.
All this and Rudolph Maté's exquisite lighting and lively camera
movements, too.
One Way Passage and Stand-In both have exhilarating moments
of seat-of-the-pants spontaneity, that expertly (and falsely) give the
impression that the actors are making it up as we watch. (So far,
The Spieler and Her Man and SOS Iceberg have eluded me, but
I continue to hope).
It's certainly a strength that Garnett could survive MGM (and even
Greer Garson) during the High Code period to produce the
distinctively stylized Postman. But who will resurrect The Fireball
for re-evaluation?
--Bob Keser
hotlove666 wrote:
> Damien,
>
>
> Your mention of Tay Garnett as a Naked City guy raises a question for
> the group: Who thinks Tay Garnett (Expressive Esoterica) was a very
> good filmmaker, in serious need of revaluation, retrospecting etc?
> Greg Ford turned me on to him many years ago, and few "minor"
> directors have given me more pleasure since. The formal qualities of
> wonderful films like Postman, Seven Sinners, Her Man, Stand-In, One
> Way Passage, Wild Harvest and Cause for Alarm are highlighted
> brilliantly in eccentric experiments like SOS Iceberg or Trade Winds
> (an entire film made against rear projection). Greg thought that the
> primal influence was Chaplin.
>
> Pardon my Alzheimer's: The camerman for It's All True was Harry
> Wilding, before George Fanto came on board for the Fortaleza shoot.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2025
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:39pm
Subject: Re: Rafelson
"The Fortune" is highly underrated. All three leads
are teriffic,and the verbal rhythms again approximate
Nichols and May. But financial failure has its
peculiar anti-magic and it took years to get Stockard
Channing's career jump-started again.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned "Black Widow" so
far. A lovely piece of work. As for "Man Trouble" it
should be noted that its producer is Silvio
Berlusconi, current ruler (in every sense of the term)
of Italy. I very much doubt that Rafelson shares
Berlusconi's high regard for Benito Mussolini.
--- ptonguette@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/13/03 12:20:30 PM,
> hotlove666@y... writes:
>
> >I kind of enjoyed Man Trouble, too,
> >but on a different level. Carol Eastman also wrote
> The Shooting and
> >The Fortune - Man Trouble is closer to the latter
> than to the former,
> >but it's still enjoyable.
>
> "The Shooting" is, of course, indisputably great,
> but I actually rather like
> "The Fortune" too. I'm a sucker for screen farce
> and, more importantly, it
> was the last of the "long take" Mike Nichols films
> made during that great run he
> had from '65 to '75. In the films made during that
> period, Nichols achieved
> a kind of perfection in his mise en scene:
> preferring hugely complex takes
> which, despite the director's stage background,
> always felt cinematic because he
> did so much with blocking and camera movement.
> Nichols took a long break
> after "The Fortune" and he returned a much more
> conventional filmmaker
> stylistically speaking.
>
> In any case, "Man Trouble" is, I believe, the one
> Rafelson feature I've not
> seen, so I'll try to check it out sometime.
>
> Peter
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/ptonguette/index.html
>
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2026
From: Tosh
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:16pm
Subject: Ozu and benshi
Some years ago I brought over a benshi Midori Sawato from Tokyo and
she performed 'I was Born, but...' with Buster Keaton's 'Steamboat
Bill Jr.' That was a magnificent show. It's too bad that they are
not doing a benshi event at the Ozu Retrospective.
--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com
2027
From: iangjohnston
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:51pm
Subject: Re: Print of Ozu's Late Autumn
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:
> I honestly don't know the answer to the basic question but this is
a
> complete retrospective, showing everything that is extant, with
live musical
> accompaniment for all the silents,
> and Shochiku has struck new prints for many of the films (possibly
all).
> The other important addition is that the new prints are the
prelude to most
> if not all of the films being made available on Japanese DVD
(albeit without
> subtitles) and Criterion has apparently already got a deal with
Shochiku for
> several American DVDs (beginning with their Tokyo Story release
this month
> or October -- I don't recall which).
Regarding the Ozu DVD releases: Shochiku is releasing 34 features in
4 box sets but with no English subtitles. However Panorama in Hong
Kong will be releasing these individually with English subtitles.
And Western companies (Criterion in the US, Artificial Eye and
Tartan in the UK, Arte in France) have licensed individual titles.
Criterion's release of Tokyo Story (in October) will be the first to
appear in the West.
Ian Johnston
2028
From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:53pm
Subject: Re: Cahiers
When I inteviewed Charles Tesson in the Int'l Rio Film Festival (Festival do
Rio), he said that he wanted to reopen important discussions for the french
society, not anymore for the ghetto of cinephiles who find movie magazines
to be crutches against reality. This was also an economic strategy to keep
up with the ambitions of Le Monde to raise the public of the magazine. And
had to do with Tesson's personal tastes and beliefs in cinema, its relation
to the outside world (he's the only one at Cahiers that prefers Laurent
Cantet to Arnaud Desplechin, it tells a lot). It is arguable whether or not
this strategy went well from an editorial standpoint: good "globalization
issues" (the Atlas, the one with Jeanne Balibar on cover), extremely good
and innovative criticism on tv, internet, videoclip, real time tv (I support
their arguments in favor of the reality shows, which were here in Brazil
also a hot point of discussion and also a good way to polemize against
defenders of the old culture in general), but some issues didn't make it
very well, such as the september 11th one - their "Evenement" rubrique, a
Tesson innovation for the new formula, never found the right tone or space
(How could one find an editorial identity in a section when the "happening
of the month" may be either the raise of the documentary film, the narrative
in Hou Hsiao-hsien's and David Lynch's new films, Gangs Of New York, Chantal
Akerman's La Captive [complete masterwork, I shall add] or pornography in
movies?).
From the economic standpoint, it is not arguable that it failed. It failed,
at least, for the pretentions of Le Monde. Fuck Le Monde, I'd say, but I'd
say it alone, and the Cahiers certainly couldn't do it, since they are owned
by this group as a major actionary.
This being said, I might say I had mixed feelings reading the new edition of
the Cahiers (also with Jeanne Balibar on cover, this time for Biette's film
Saltimbank). I went right to Frodon's editorial, and I shall translate to
this forum a small part of it, but first I shall point that this piece of
writing mainly deals with sweeping Tesson off the magazine. Personally and
editorial-wise (editorially is a word?). From the personal standpoint, this
maybe was not something completely bad for the Cahiers - since it seems that
the two editors-in-chief weren't having a good relationship -, but the
theoric dismissal of the Tesson formula for the magazine is completely
infamous, IMO.
It reads like this: "Cinema is this unique point of intersection in relation
to the real and the construction by an author of a personal vision, this
joint between the real and creation being itself maginfied by projection. /
Is this definition of cinema canonic till banality? Maybe. But it is a
definition made once again polemic, combative, in a profoundly different
world in relation to the era cinema was born. TV, digital, globalization,
real time, internet, end of Berlin's wall, September 11th, videogames, DVD,
the reunion of Europe, the heating of the planet, rise of the fascisms and
of communauterism, every other important recent phenomenon that you may
like, demand to rethink cinema, but certainly not to surpass it etc. etc."
The whole text reads like this: OK, the world is important and we will talk
about it, this new regime of images (real time tv, digital, videoclip,
series) is important, but let's talk films".
Outside the editorial, Frodon's changes are rather good, or promise to be:
the extinction of the "Evenement" rubrique, placing the Cahier Critique
right after the editorial and Jousse's bloc-notes (page 16) and giving it
much more space (Tesson acknowledged to me that giving the reviews less
space was risky, but that he bet on it just the same), shortening the space
for the Journal des Cahiers and making it talk NO MORE about clips or
internet or TV (excepted the films on TV section) and raising the Repliques
rubrique, where Frodon thinks people from inside the magazine and people
from the outside could talk more freely about the "civilization of image",
more lenghty texts, table-rondes.
The repliques section of this issue is rather good: interview with Rohmer,
table-ronde about the cinema of the 90s with Jousse, Lalanne, Blouin,
Assayas and Frodon (not so good as it should, though), text on Bergman by
Catherine Breillat, interview with Dominique Paini on Cocteau.
But for me the best piece of the magazine was a newspiece of Shigehiko
Hasumi reporting the new film by Hou Hsiao-hsien, which is an homage to
Yasujiro Ozu and will open in Japan on Dec 12 2003, exactly 100 years of
Ozu's birth. The way he describes one day of shooting in a bookstore dazzled
me almost to tears and I hope to see this film soon (which, in Brazilian
terms, means sept or oct 2004).
I wrote about what's IN the magazine, but there was something OUT of it that
sounded to me really strange. It was the inclusion of Charlie's Angels: Full
Throttle on the Conseil des Dix (Lananne and Blouin 1, Higuinen 3) but not a
sign of it in the Cahier Critique. Maybe it is an exemple of how the
magazine is going to treat films with the fluidity of contemporary tv and
videoclip imagery? On the next episode...
Ruy
----- Original Message -----
From: "iangjohnston"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 12:43 AM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Naked City
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
> wrote:
>
> >
> > The Cahiers claim that we are now in the Golden Age of Series may
> be
> > true. Did you watch 24? Did anyone? CSI: Crime Scene
> Investigation?
> > Etc? I still don't have tv, but I've started looking at some of
> this
> > stuff on DVD and cassette, and it's not bad, for tv! Marvin, who
> sees
> > all and knows all, tells me that Carnavale on HBO kicked off well
> > this week. Please, though, don't anyone tell me how great The
> > Sopranos is. Not my cup of tea, and I'm fully aware that it's
> > probably an aberration on my part.
> >
> > Also, the FOUR categories develeoped by Jean-Claude Biette to
> > distinguish types and qualities of helmers - director, meteur-en-
> > scen, auteur, filmmaker (highest rank) - becomes a necessity in
> > talking about this stuff. Stephen Hopkins, the director of 24, is
> a
> > good metteur-en-scene, period.
>
>
> "Not bad for tv" is pretty much my reaction, too. And I'm similarly
> unimpressed by The Sopranos.
>
> Shouldn't that be "the Cahiers claimed" (past tense)? From the
> latest issue it looks like Frodon is going to jetison all the
> coverage of TV/videoclips/videogames/the Internet etc -- presumably
> no reality TV shows will make their top ten of the year in the
> future.
>
> And, from the latest Cahiers, Eric Rohmer: "I detest the word
> director [realisateur], besides I never use it because the entire
> artistic dimension is thereby denied. A filmmaker [cineaste] worthy
> of the name leaves his mark on the work in its finished form,
> whether or not he is the author of the screenplay. The only
> difference is that when someone like me writes his films, he thinks
> of the mise en scene right from this moment, while other auteurs
> undertake this only at a later stage."
>
> Ian Johnston
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
2029
From:
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 0:46pm
Subject: Re: Naked City, Tay Garnett, Erratum
Bill Krohn writes:
"Who thinks Tay Garnett (Expressive Esoterica) was a very good filmmaker, in
serious need of revaluation, retrospecting etc? ... few "minor" directors have
given me more pleasure since. The formal qualities of wonderful films like
Postman, Seven Sinners, Her Man, Stand-In, One Way Passage, Wild Harvest and
Cause for Alarm are highlighted brilliantly in eccentric experiments like SOS
Iceberg or Trade Winds (an entire film made against rear projection). "
Second the motion here! Garnett is fascinating at his best. Joy of Living and
The Valley of Decision also have fine things in them. Slave Ship is also very
good! It seems somewhat Ford like.
Robert Keser's post on Seven Sinners is also very good!
Seven Sinners strikes one as a "mock Sternberg" film, where everyone tried
lovingly to recreate the visual richness of Sternberg's images. The shots on the
boat where the characters wind in and out of the flags is especially
Sternberg like - and beautiful.
He also writes:
"So far, The Spieler and Her Man and SOS Iceberg have eluded me, but I
continue to hope)."
Same here! Also have never seen Trade Winds or Wild Harvest or many other
Garnetts. Taped The Night Fighter, but haven't watched it yet. (Have seen the
Carol Burnett parody of One-Way Passage, called One-Way Ticket. James Coco plays
the condemned man.)
Years ago, saw and enjoyed that strange combination of detective story and
screwball comedy, Slightly Honorable, on the late show. But the recent print
shown on TV has dialogue that is incomprehensible on the faded soundtrack. Ditto
the video version in local stores.
Mike Grost
PS Love the Ben Casey titles!
Maximalist film titles are a lot of fun, but one suspects that moguls have
banned them from current film due to the difficulty of publicizing them. No one
cared about this on old TV.
During their peak in 1953-1954, Americans bought over 100 million comic books
per month - all this without any advertising or publicity (unless you count
the coming attractions lists in the back of comics). Today, people seem to need
moutains of ads before they'll watch anything (:
I'm watching Perceval le Gallois (Rohmer, 1978). Wonder what today's moguls
would think of this one? It would make a great videogame, though...
2030
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: Naked City, Tay Garnett, Erratum
>"(Have seen the
Carol Burnett parody of One-Way Passage, called
One-Way Ticket. James Coco plays
the condemned man.)"
Carol Burnett's parodies are remarkable. Genuine works
of serious in-depth film criticism, IMO. I don't have
that one but years ago I taped "Mildred Fierce" and
"Torchy Song" -- both priceless.
--- MG4273@a... wrote:
__________________________________
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2031
From: Damien Bona
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:51pm
Subject: ReTay Garnett
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
Who thinks Tay Garnett (Expressive Esoterica) was a very
> good filmmaker, in serious need of revaluation, retrospecting etc?
> Greg Ford turned me on to him many years ago, and few "minor"
> directors have given me more pleasure since.
I recently saw Garnett's Valley of Decision and was floored by how
much energy, liveliness and emotionalism he was able to bring to a
big-budget Greer Garson romantic family saga (the same is also true
of his previous Garson vehicle, Mrs. Parkington). Garnett was so non-
fussy a director that it's rather inconceivable that MGM would have
put him under contract in the first place.
I first came to appreciate Garnett in college when George Robinson's
Film Society showed Seven Sinners, which is one of the great
rambunctious films of all time.
2032
From: George Robinson
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:11pm
Subject: Re: ReTay Garnett
My, I'm flattered. For the record, the name of the organization was NOT
George Robinson's Film Society, although I might use that one at a future
date.
My own most extensive acquaintance with Garnett came from a Garnett series
at the old NY Cultural Center; if memory serves it was curated by Greg Ford.
I have mixed feelings about Garnett -- I think Sarris probably has him
pegged about right -- but One-Way Passage is his one truly great film, a
bittersweet romantic tragedy worthy of Borzage, leavened by Garnett's own
knockabout humor.
Trade Winds, which someone else mentioned, is memorable for two reasons;
first, it is an uncredited remake of One-Way Passage as a roughneck comedy
and second, it is the film in which Joan Bennett went from being a blonde
(and a feeble imitation of her sister Constance) to being a brunette, the
first step towards her great work with Lang, Ophuls and Minnelli.
George (That ain't my film society) Robinson
Cry later, but for now let's enjoy the laughter.
--Tupac Shakur, "God Bless the Dead"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Bona"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 2:51 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] ReTay Garnett
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
> wrote:
> Who thinks Tay Garnett (Expressive Esoterica) was a very
> > good filmmaker, in serious need of revaluation, retrospecting etc?
> > Greg Ford turned me on to him many years ago, and few "minor"
> > directors have given me more pleasure since.
>
> I recently saw Garnett's Valley of Decision and was floored by how
> much energy, liveliness and emotionalism he was able to bring to a
> big-budget Greer Garson romantic family saga (the same is also true
> of his previous Garson vehicle, Mrs. Parkington). Garnett was so non-
> fussy a director that it's rather inconceivable that MGM would have
> put him under contract in the first place.
>
> I first came to appreciate Garnett in college when George Robinson's
> Film Society showed Seven Sinners, which is one of the great
> rambunctious films of all time.
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
2033
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:28pm
Subject: Cahiers
Ruy,
I never talked to Charles about it, but your analysis is correct: the
kids wanted to expand into the world of tv (a big Charles interest,
too), karaoke, animation, anime, internet, music videos,
videogames and porn, and the editors and publishers hoped by
doing this to capture a 25 and younger audience and up the
circulation. Looking at it from the outside, I'd say the "new
formula" foundered on the necessary gamble of upping
production costs* - you don't produce something like the
videogame issue without spending some money on layout etc.
Same thing happened to the Burdeau-Lounas web site, which
was gorgeous but very pricey, without even the hope of
generating revenue - it was the first thing to go.
That said, I think that writing about videogames or tv was an easy
target for critics of the magazine who didn't read it - this is
unfortunately a common thing in Paris: Everyone has an opinion,
but few actually sit down and read each issue with the intensity
that you do. So having a conversation between a pornographer
and Brisseau or Kiefer Sutherland on the cover takes 1 minute in
a kiosk to notice, and you have an opinion you can peddle in the
cafes. Frankly, if all the people who have opinions about the
Cahiers bought it or subscribed, the economic problems would
go away! Anyway, the last two years were not all about
vidogames and tv. They did a whole special issue on Algerian
cinema, and there IS no Algerian cinema! That was very much
Charles' politics, which you clearly got from talking to him.
(Personally, I like both Cantet and Depsleschin, but I prefer
Depleschin.) Charles also considered Jacques Rozier to be the
best director of the New Wave.
The economic problems have to be solved - I just hope they don't
throw the baby out with the bath-water, because they have a fine
group of young writers, and they are the magazine's best asset
for becoming at least solvent in the future. I'm not sure that color
on every page is as important. No color photo has ever had the
impact for me of the black-and-white stills (even of color films)
that took up a half page each in the yellow-cover and Fillipachi
days. Daney's piece, "Rio Lobo: The One Grows Old," was
illustrated that way, and I can tell you every photo in it from
memory - not so with the array of color or b&w and different still
formats that made the new new Cahiers so pretty.
As for what the Cahiers is about, even more than the politique
d'auteurs, I have said it before: Unlike any other film magazine
except Trafic, which is a toney spinoff, the editorial line of the
Cahiers is about the cinema and its "others" - other media and
the big O, the world.
*And from what you tell me, on disagreements between Charles
and Jean-Marc, which I wasn't privy to. Too bad they couldn't get
along - I like both of them. Frank Nouchi, who masterminded all
the changes as Le Monde's rep, left to do the same thing for Le
Monde's non-news pages after a while, just as Serge Toubiana,
who negotiated the sale to Le Monde in the first place, left
(unwillingly) before the new mag was created. Those
discontinuities were lethal.
2034
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:49pm
Subject: Tay Garnett
George,
I mentioned Trade Winds, which I love. The other notable thing
was formal. Garnett and Mate went all over the South Seas
shooting footage; then a story was written to match, and the
entire film was shot against back projections. Something not
dissimilar happened with SOS Iceberg, I understand: according
to Greg it was cobbled together out of new footage and footage
from the Leni Riefenstahl-starrer of the same name. Garnett did
it again in his last film, Challenge to be Free, intercutting footage
he shot of the actor and nature footage he was seeing. Still,
those exercises with found footage pale next to the audacity of
Trade Winds - Syberberg, look to your laurels!
2035
From: vincent lobrutto
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 9:19pm
Subject: Re: Tay Garnett
George Robinson wrote:
"My own most extensive acquaintance with Garnett came from a Garnett series
at the old NY Cultural Center"
The NY Cultural Center was a wonderful venue. Two programs I remember seeing there were the films of Don Siegel and the films of Russ Meyer - they were gutsy and provided a real forum for the study of film directors.
Vinny
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2036
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 9:26pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tay Garnett
I first saw Fassinder films there. "Beware of a Holy
Whore," "The American Friend," "Why Does Herr R. Run
Amok?" and "Effi Briest" -- all in one week.
Quite an eye-opener.
--- vincent lobrutto
wrote:
> George Robinson wrote:
>
> "My own most extensive acquaintance with Garnett
> came from a Garnett series
> at the old NY Cultural Center"
>
> The NY Cultural Center was a wonderful venue. Two
> programs I remember seeing there were the films of
> Don Siegel and the films of Russ Meyer - they were
> gutsy and provided a real forum for the study of
> film directors.
>
> Vinny
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
> design software
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
__________________________________
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2037
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 10:01pm
Subject: Tay Garnett et al.
[I first saw those Fassbinders on a screen in my apartment.
John Hughes carried sixteens of all of them except Effie around
in the trunk of his cab.]
[[Marty Rubin did a great job with the Hartford. He showed all the
then-available Rossellini tv'ers, including St. Augustine and the
3-part Medici. His last series, almost defiantly, was 60s sex
comedies - the first time I saw Ozzie Nelson's Love and Kisses. I
always knew Ozzie was a genius, but that film was easily as big
a revelation as St. Augustine. Very easy to turn on before
screenings around there.]]
Other grace notes in Trade Winds were supplied by Ralph
Bellamy as a sonorous private eye (for imbecile) and his
inamorata, Ann Sothern, who boasts an inexhaustible trove of
one-liners about flat fleet. Bellamy's best line (re: Joan Bennett
when she thinks Frederic March has turned her in to the cops):
"Her hatred of him amounts almost to an obsession!"
2038
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Sep 17, 2003 11:07pm
Subject: Frank O'Hara on "Seven Sinners"
In the collection of essays and interviews "Standing
Still and Walking in New York" (Grey Fox Press, 1983)
in a piece entitled "Comedy of Manners (American)" the
great Frank O'Hara weighs in on "Seven Sinners":
"Not knowing what else to do with her, one day
Universal sent Dietrich down to the South Seas to
investigate the manners of American expatriate 'Rock
Pool' society, and she discovers a number of
good-hearted lugs going soft in the tropics. The funny
version of her earlier "Morocco," this too is about
how a girl gets along when she's On Her Own, with no
one to protecther from the snobs but Broderick
Crawford, Misha Auer and Billy Gilbert, each atacking
their characterization a la Restoration Comedy. The
'happy' ending consists only in Dietrich's moral
victory: she gives up dull John Wayne for his own
good, thus providing for herself a future which
presumably be as glamorous as her past."
__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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2039
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Sep 18, 2003 0:31am
Subject: Frank O'Hara on Seven Sinners
Great!!
2040
From: Kenneth Eisenstein
Date: Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: Film books: help me expand my library
Laurent Mannoni's The Great Art of Light and Shadow: Archaeology of the Cinema
(2000, University of Exeter Press [originally in French 1995]) is
over 400 pages of writing about this stuff. It's got illustrations,
but a much higher ratio of words to pictures than the Ceram book.
Ken Eisenstein
Chicago
p.s. Fred when did you get into the Ceram book?
Frampton mentions it in a 1970 interview in Film Culture.
>The Archeology of the Cinema, by C. W. Ceram There are apparently a lot
>of problems with this book, lots of factual errors, and there's stuff in
>French that's supposed to be much better. BUT: it's heavily illustrated,
>and it opened up the world of pre-cinema for me, the connections between
>cinema and all those other things. Reading it helped me formulate a
>somewhat fanciful anti-cinema argument -- that is, it occurred to me
>that there's a way in which this stuff is "better." (If someone knows of
>something much better on the subject, illustrated well (which seems key
>for such things), preferably in English but also in French, please post).
>
>- Fred
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2041
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:33pm
Subject: Re: Film Books, Help me Expand My Library
I already mentioned in my post Cent ans de cinema (A Hundred
Years of Cinema) by Henri Langois, which predates the no doubt
superior studies already cited, but contains more than a few
pages of interest on the pre-history and early history of the
medium by someone who more or less created the field of study
and saw a lot of early work which isn't around now (in part
because of his own artisanal archiving methods). As far as I
know it hasn't been translated, but it's also not in one of those
highly technical French intellectual argots - you know what
Langois was like. It was published by the CdC book division.
2042
From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Fri Sep 19, 2003 0:42am
Subject: Re: Print of Ozu's Late Autumn
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "iangjohnston" wrote:
>
> Regarding the Ozu DVD releases:
> Panorama in Hong
> Kong will be releasing these individually with English subtitles.
Thanks for that info -- this retro won't seem quite as "final" as the last one, if even the more obscure films will have some sort of life on DVD. Have now found more about this -- as well as about that new Hou, "Coffee Time," as translated from Cahiers by you! -- at http://www.ozuyasujiro.com/news.htm
2043
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:47am
Subject: Re: Re: Print of Ozu's Late Autumn
Coffee">http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0038262/">Coffee
Time.
--- jess_l_amortell wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "iangjohnston"
> wrote:
> >
> > Regarding the Ozu DVD releases:
>
> > Panorama in Hong
> > Kong will be releasing these individually with
> English subtitles.
>
> Thanks for that info -- this retro won't seem quite
> as "final" as the last one, if even the more obscure
> films will have some sort of life on DVD. Have now
> found more about this -- as well as about that new
> Hou, "Coffee Time," as translated from Cahiers by
> you! -- at http://www.ozuyasujiro.com/news.htm
>
>
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2045
From: George Robinson
Date: Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:44am
Subject: Floating Weeds at Lincoln Center
I slept through not one but two alarms yesterday morning and missed the
press screening of Floating Weeds, but my friend Ira Hozinsky, who is
utterly reliable, wrote me the following:
The print is beautiful -- not quite as luminous as the one of LATE AUTUMN,
but exceptional just the same. I'd forgotten that Miyagawa photographed it;
the lighting is unusually "dramatic" (a la, say, Russell Metty) for Ozu in
color, and there are a unusual variety of angles, even (gasp) two overhead
shots! The film always struck me as enjoyable but relatively minor, and
that's still my impression. Worth seeing again in this print, though.
George Robinson
Cry later, but for now let's enjoy the laughter.
--Tupac Shakur, "God Bless the Dead"
2046
From:
Date: Sat Sep 20, 2003 10:41am
Subject: American Film List
This list contains outstanding American feature length films, each one by a
different director (with a few exceptions). It is intended as a replacement
for the not-very-good AFI list of top 100 films - although this list has far
more than 100 movies. The hope is that such film lists can be used as educational
tools, to introduce the public to a sampling of outstanding films and
directors.
The restriction of one film per director is especially unfair to directors
like John Ford or Alfred Hitchcock, who would otherwsie have many films on the
list.
The films are arranged chronologically.
I tried to make sure the list was full of comedies, musicals, thrillers and
science fiction films, unlike many such lists.
Comments welcome!
Mike Grost
Tillie's Punctured Romance (Mack Sennett, 1914)
The Hypocrites (Lois Weber, 1915)
Alias Jimmy Valentine (Maurice Tourneur, 1915)
Intolerance (D.W. Griffith, 1916)
Tom Sawyer (William Desmond Taylor, 1917)
Daddy-Long-Legs (Marshall Neilan, 1919)
The Mark of Zorro (Fred Niblo, 1920)
Within Our Gates (Oscar Michaux, 1920)
Outside the Law (Tod Browning, 1921)
Camille (Ray C. Smallwood, 1921)
Robin Hood (Alan Dwan, 1922)
The Toll of the Sea (Chester M. Franklin, 1922)
Beau Brummel (Harry Beaumont, 1923)
Scaramouche (Rex Ingram, 1923)
Our Hospitality (Buster Keaton, Jack Blystone, 1923)
Sherlock, Jr. (Buster Keaton, 1924)
Girl Shy (Fred Newmeyer, Sam Taylor, 1924)
Greed (Erich von Stroheim, 1924)
The Gold Rush (Charlie Chaplin, 1925)
The Big Parade (King Vidor, 1925)
Tumbleweeds (King Baggott, 1925)
Hands Up! (Clarence Badger, 1926)
The Bat (Roland West, 1926)
Sunrise (Friedrich Wilhelm Murnau, 1927)
West Point (Eddie Sedgwick, 1928)
The Kiss (Jacques Feyder, 1929)
Thunderbolt (Josef von Sternberg, 1929)
Shooting Straight (George Archainbaud, 1930)
Union Depot (Alfred E. Green, 1931)
Shanghai Express (Josef von Sternberg, 1932)
Horse Feathers (Norman Z. MacLeod, 1932)
Lady Killer (Roy Del Ruth, 1933)
The Black Cat (Edgar G. Ulmer, 1934)
Cleopatra (Cecil B. De Mille, 1934)
One Night of Love (Victor Schertzinger, 1934)
We Live Again (Rouben Mamoulian, 1934)
The Mystery of Mr. X (Edgar Selwyn, 1934)
Phantom Empire (Otto Brower, B. Reeves Eason, 1935)
Fury (Fritz Lang, 1936)
Swingtime (George Stevens, 1936)
Stand-In (Tay Garnett, 1937)
Double Wedding (Richard Thorpe, 1937)
The Great Garrick (James Whale, 1937)
History is Made at Night (Frank Borzage, 1937)
Parnell (John M. Stahl, 1937)
The Man Who Found Himself (Lew Landers, 1937)
The Patient in Room 18 (Bobby Connolly, Crane Wilbur, 1938)
Mr. Smith Goes to Washington (Frank Capra, 1939)
The Wizard of Oz (Victor Fleming, 1939)
The Shop Around the Corner (Ernst Lubitsch, 1940)
His Girl Friday (Howard Hawks, 1940)
Fantasia (Ben Sharpsteen, 1940)
Swamp Water (Jean Renoir, 1941)
Sullivan's Travels (Preston Sturges, 1942)
True To Life (George Marshall, 1942)
Now, Voyager (Irving Rapper, 1942)
I Married a Witch (René Clair, 1942)
It Started With Eve (Henry Koster, 1943)
Ministry of Fear (Fritz Lang, 1943)
The Gang's All Here (Busby Berkley, 1943)
Going My Way (Leo McCarey, 1944)
Mr. Skeffington (Vincent Sherman, 1944)
Golden Earrings (Mitchell Leisen, 1947)
The Exile (Max Ophuls, 1947)
Magick Lantern Cycle (Kenneth Anger, 1947-1969)
Letter From an Unknown Woman (Max Ophuls, 1948)
He Walked By Night (Anthony Mann, 1948)
The Street With No Name (William Keighley, 1948)
White Heat (Raoul Walsh, 1949)
Intruder in the Dust (Clarence Brown, 1949)
Criss Cross (Robert Siodmak, 1949)
The Lawless (Joseph Losey, 1950)
Stars in My Crown (Jacques Tourneur, 1950)
Panic in the Streets (Elia Kazan, 1950)
The Day the Earth Stood Still (Robert Wise, 1951)
Pat and Mike (George Cukor, 1952)
Singin' in the Rain (Stanley Donen, Gene Kelly, 1952)
On Dangerous Ground (Nicholas Ray, 1952)
Julius Caesar (Joseph L. Mankiewicz, 1953)
Crime Wave (André De Toth, 1953)
Private Hell 36 (Don Siegel, 1954)
The Big Combo (Joseph H. Lewis, 1955)
The Phenix City Story (Phil Karlson, 1955)
Kiss Me Deadly (Robert Aldrich, 1955)
This Island Earth (Joseph M. Newman, 1955)
Seven Men From Now (Budd Boetticher, 1956)
Giant (George Stevens, 1956)
Forbidden Planet (Fred Wilcox, 1956)
Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter (Frank Tashlin, 1957)
The Incredible Shrinking Man (Jack Arnold, 1957)
A Time to Love and a Time to Die (Douglas Sirk, 1958)
Vertigo (Alfred Hitchcock, 1958)
Touch of Evil (Orson Welles, 1958)
Some Came Running (Vincente Minnelli, 1959)
Dog Star Man (Stan Brakhage, 1959-1963)
Night Tide (Curtis Harrington, 1960)
The Flower Thief (Ron Rice, 1960)
Sergeant Rutledge (John Ford, 1960)
Homicidal (William Castle, 1961)
The Pit and the Pendulum (Roger Corman, 1961)
Lilies of the Field (Ralph Nelson, 1963)
Flaming Creatures (Jack Smith, 1963)
Shock Corridor (Samuel Fuller 1963)
The Outer Limits: The Forms of Things Unknown (Gerd Oswald, 1964)
Bunny Lake is Missing (Otto Preminger, 1965)
The Trouble With Angels (Ida Lupino, 1965)
What Did You Do in the War, Daddy? (Blake Edwards, 1966)
Fahrenheit 451 (François Truffaut, 1966)
Doctor, You've Got to be Kidding (Peter Tewksbury, 1967)
Bonnie and Clyde (Arthur Penn, 1967)
Annie Get Your Gun (Clark Jones, Jack Sydow, 1967)
Rosemary's Baby (Roman Polanski, 1968)
Planet of the Apes (Franklin J. Schaffner, 1968)
2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)
Tarzan: The Four O'Clock Army (Alex Nichol, 1968)
The Immortal Story (Orson Welles, 1969)
Run a Crooked Mile (Gene Levitt, 1969)
The Andersonville Trial (George C. Scott, 1970)
Incident in San Francisco (Don Medford, 1970)
Zabriskie Point (Michelangelo Antonioni, 1970)
WR: Mysteries of the Organism (Dusan Makavejev, 1971)
Two Lane Blacktop (Monte Hellman, 1971)
Avanti! (Billy Wilder, 1972)
Junior Bonner (Sam Peckinpah, 1972)
A Woman Under the Influence (John Cassavetes, 1974)
The Questor Tapes (Richard A. Colla, 1974)
Three Women (Robert Altman, 1977)
Providence (Alain Resnais, 1977)
Ishi: The Last of His Tribe (Robert Ellis Miller, 1978)
Melvin and Howard (Jonathan Demme, 1980)
Grease II (Patricia Birch, 1982)
The Year of Living Dangerously (Peter Weir, 1982)
Tron (Steve Lisberger, 1982)
Don't Cry, Its Only Thunder (Peter Werner, 1982)
My Favorite Year (Richard Benjamin, 1982)
Tex (Tim Hunter, 1982)
Valley Girl (Martha Coolidge, 1983)
Eddie and the Cruisers (Martin Davidson, 1983)
Places in the Heart (Robert Benton, 1984)
Streets of Fire (Walter Hill, 1984)
Romancing the Stone (Robert Zemeckis, 1984)
Mask (Peter Bogdanovich, 1985)
Tuff Turf (Fritz Kiersch, 1985)
Maurice (James Ivory, 1986)
Parting Glances (Bill Sherwood, 1986)
Off Beat (Michael Dinner, 1986)
Good Morning, Babylon (Taviani Brothers, 1987)
Student Exchange (Mollie Miller, 1987)
Back to the Beach (Lyndall Hobbs, 1987)
La Bamba (Luis Valdez, 1987)
Mannequin (Michael Gotlieb, 1987)
Hairspray (John Waters, 1988)
Die Hard (John McTiernan, 1988)
Field of Dreams (Phil Alden Robinson, 1989)
Dances With Wolves (Kevin Costner, 1990)
Ghost (Jerry Zucker, 1990)
Peacemaker (Kevin S. Tenney, 1990)
Don't Tell Her It's Me (Malcolm Mowbray, 1990)
Daughters of the Dust (Julie Dash, 1991)
The Rocketeer (Joe Johnston, 1991)
True Identity (Charles Lane, 1991)
Beauty and the Beast (Gary Trousdale, Kirk Wise, 1991)
Salmonberries (Percy Adlon, 1991)
Zebrahead (Anthony Drazan, 1992)
Thunderheart (Michael Apted, 1992)
Sister Act (Emile Ardolino, 1992)
Baraka (Ron Fricke, 1992)
Swing Kids (Thomas Carter, 1993)
Guarding Tess (Hugh Wilson, 1994)
Hackers (Iain Softley, 1995)
Amistad (Steven Spielberg, 1997)
Kundun (Martin Scorsese, 1997)
Red Corner (Jon Avnet, 1997)
In & Out (Frank Oz, 1997)
Isamu Noguchi: Stones and Paper (Hiro Narita, 1997)
Big Daddy (Dennis Dugan, 1999)
Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai (Jim Jarmusch, 1999)
Hit and Runway (Christopher Livingston, 1999)
The Life and Times of Hank Greenberg (Aviva Kempner, 2000)
Before Night Falls (Julian Schnabel, 2000)
Shrek (Andew Adamson, Vicky Jenson, 2001)
2047
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:45pm
Subject: Re: American Film List
I notice you lies Roland West's "The Bat." What about
it's 70mm remake "The Bat Whispers"? I find it
superior in every way and one of the best films of its
kind.
--- MG4273@a... wrote:
> This list contains outstanding American feature
> length films, each one by a
> different director (with a few exceptions). It is
> intended as a replacement
> for the not-very-good AFI list of top 100 films -
> although this list has far
> more than 100 movies. The hope is that such film
> lists can be used as educational
> tools, to introduce the public to a sampling of
> outstanding films and
> directors.
> The restriction of one film per director is
> especially unfair to directors
> like John Ford or Alfred Hitchcock, who would
> otherwsie have many films on the
> list.
> The films are arranged chronologically.
> I tried to make sure the list was full of comedies,
> musicals, thrillers and
> science fiction films, unlike many such lists.
> Comments welcome!
> Mike Grost
>
> Tillie's Punctured Romance (Mack Sennett, 1914)
> The Hypocrites (Lois Weber, 1915)
> Alias Jimmy Valentine (Maurice Tourneur, 1915)
> Intolerance (D.W. Griffith, 1916)
> Tom Sawyer (William Desmond Taylor, 1917)
> Daddy-Long-Legs (Marshall Neilan, 1919)
> The Mark of Zorro (Fred Niblo, 1920)
> Within Our Gates (Oscar Michaux, 1920)
> Outside the Law (Tod Browning, 1921)
> Camille (Ray C. Smallwood, 1921)
> Robin Hood (Alan Dwan, 1922)
> The Toll of the Sea (Chester M. Franklin, 1922)
> Beau Brummel (Harry Beaumont, 1923)
> Scaramouche (Rex Ingram, 1923)
> Our Hospitality (Buster Keaton, Jack Blystone, 1923)
> Sherlock, Jr. (Buster Keaton, 1924)
> Girl Shy (Fred Newmeyer, Sam Taylor, 1924)
> Greed (Erich von Stroheim, 1924)
> The Gold Rush (Charlie Chaplin, 1925)
> The Big Parade (King Vidor, 1925)
> Tumbleweeds (King Baggott, 1925)
> Hands Up! (Clarence Badger, 1926)
> The Bat (Roland West, 1926)
> Sunrise (Friedrich Wilhelm Murnau, 1927)
> West Point (Eddie Sedgwick, 1928)
> The Kiss (Jacques Feyder, 1929)
> Thunderbolt (Josef von Sternberg, 1929)
> Shooting Straight (George Archainbaud, 1930)
> Union Depot (Alfred E. Green, 1931)
> Shanghai Express (Josef von Sternberg, 1932)
> Horse Feathers (Norman Z. MacLeod, 1932)
> Lady Killer (Roy Del Ruth, 1933)
> The Black Cat (Edgar G. Ulmer, 1934)
> Cleopatra (Cecil B. De Mille, 1934)
> One Night of Love (Victor Schertzinger, 1934)
> We Live Again (Rouben Mamoulian, 1934)
> The Mystery of Mr. X (Edgar Selwyn, 1934)
> Phantom Empire (Otto Brower, B. Reeves Eason, 1935)
> Fury (Fritz Lang, 1936)
> Swingtime (George Stevens, 1936)
> Stand-In (Tay Garnett, 1937)
> Double Wedding (Richard Thorpe, 1937)
> The Great Garrick (James Whale, 1937)
> History is Made at Night (Frank Borzage, 1937)
> Parnell (John M. Stahl, 1937)
> The Man Who Found Himself (Lew Landers, 1937)
> The Patient in Room 18 (Bobby Connolly, Crane
> Wilbur, 1938)
> Mr. Smith Goes to Washington (Frank Capra, 1939)
> The Wizard of Oz (Victor Fleming, 1939)
> The Shop Around the Corner (Ernst Lubitsch, 1940)
> His Girl Friday (Howard Hawks, 1940)
> Fantasia (Ben Sharpsteen, 1940)
> Swamp Water (Jean Renoir, 1941)
> Sullivan's Travels (Preston Sturges, 1942)
> True To Life (George Marshall, 1942)
> Now, Voyager (Irving Rapper, 1942)
> I Married a Witch (René Clair, 1942)
> It Started With Eve (Henry Koster, 1943)
> Ministry of Fear (Fritz Lang, 1943)
> The Gang's All Here (Busby Berkley, 1943)
> Going My Way (Leo McCarey, 1944)
> Mr. Skeffington (Vincent Sherman, 1944)
> Golden Earrings (Mitchell Leisen, 1947)
> The Exile (Max Ophuls, 1947)
> Magick Lantern Cycle (Kenneth Anger, 1947-1969)
> Letter From an Unknown Woman (Max Ophuls, 1948)
> He Walked By Night (Anthony Mann, 1948)
> The Street With No Name (William Keighley, 1948)
> White Heat (Raoul Walsh, 1949)
> Intruder in the Dust (Clarence Brown, 1949)
> Criss Cross (Robert Siodmak, 1949)
> The Lawless (Joseph Losey, 1950)
> Stars in My Crown (Jacques Tourneur, 1950)
> Panic in the Streets (Elia Kazan, 1950)
> The Day the Earth Stood Still (Robert Wise, 1951)
> Pat and Mike (George Cukor, 1952)
> Singin' in the Rain (Stanley Donen, Gene Kelly,
> 1952)
> On Dangerous Ground (Nicholas Ray, 1952)
> Julius Caesar (Joseph L. Mankiewicz, 1953)
> Crime Wave (André De Toth, 1953)
> Private Hell 36 (Don Siegel, 1954)
> The Big Combo (Joseph H. Lewis, 1955)
> The Phenix City Story (Phil Karlson, 1955)
> Kiss Me Deadly (Robert Aldrich, 1955)
> This Island Earth (Joseph M. Newman, 1955)
> Seven Men From Now (Budd Boetticher, 1956)
> Giant (George Stevens, 1956)
> Forbidden Planet (Fred Wilcox, 1956)
> Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter (Frank Tashlin, 1957)
> The Incredible Shrinking Man (Jack Arnold, 1957)
> A Time to Love and a Time to Die (Douglas Sirk,
> 1958)
> Vertigo (Alfred Hitchcock, 1958)
> Touch of Evil (Orson Welles, 1958)
> Some Came Running (Vincente Minnelli, 1959)
> Dog Star Man (Stan Brakhage, 1959-1963)
> Night Tide (Curtis Harrington, 1960)
> The Flower Thief (Ron Rice, 1960)
> Sergeant Rutledge (John Ford, 1960)
> Homicidal (William Castle, 1961)
> The Pit and the Pendulum (Roger Corman, 1961)
> Lilies of the Field (Ralph Nelson, 1963)
> Flaming Creatures (Jack Smith, 1963)
> Shock Corridor (Samuel Fuller 1963)
> The Outer Limits: The Forms of Things Unknown (Gerd
> Oswald, 1964)
> Bunny Lake is Missing (Otto Preminger, 1965)
> The Trouble With Angels (Ida Lupino, 1965)
> What Did You Do in the War, Daddy? (Blake Edwards,
> 1966)
> Fahrenheit 451 (François Truffaut, 1966)
> Doctor, You've Got to be Kidding (Peter Tewksbury,
> 1967)
> Bonnie and Clyde (Arthur Penn, 1967)
> Annie Get Your Gun (Clark Jones, Jack Sydow, 1967)
> Rosemary's Baby (Roman Polanski, 1968)
> Planet of the Apes (Franklin J. Schaffner, 1968)
> 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)
> Tarzan: The Four O'Clock Army (Alex Nichol, 1968)
> The Immortal Story (Orson Welles, 1969)
> Run a Crooked Mile (Gene Levitt, 1969)
> The Andersonville Trial (George C. Scott, 1970)
> Incident in San Francisco (Don Medford, 1970)
> Zabriskie Point (Michelangelo Antonioni, 1970)
> WR: Mysteries of the Organism (Dusan Makavejev,
> 1971)
> Two Lane Blacktop (Monte Hellman, 1971)
> Avanti! (Billy Wilder, 1972)
> Junior Bonner (Sam Peckinpah, 1972)
> A Woman Under the Influence (John Cassavetes, 1974)
> The Questor Tapes (Richard A. Colla, 1974)
> Three Women (Robert Altman, 1977)
> Providence (Alain Resnais, 1977)
> Ishi: The Last of His Tribe (Robert Ellis Miller,
> 1978)
> Melvin and Howard (Jonathan Demme, 1980)
> Grease II (Patricia Birch, 1982)
> The Year of Living Dangerously (Peter Weir, 1982)
> Tron (Steve Lisberger, 1982)
> Don't Cry, Its Only Thunder (Peter Werner, 1982)
> My Favorite Year (Richard Benjamin, 1982)
> Tex (Tim Hunter, 1982)
> Valley Girl (Martha Coolidge, 1983)
> Eddie and the Cruisers (Martin Davidson, 1983)
> Places in the Heart (Robert Benton, 1984)
> Streets of Fire (Walter Hill, 1984)
> Romancing the Stone (Robert Zemeckis, 1984)
> Mask (Peter Bogdanovich, 1985)
> Tuff Turf (Fritz Kiersch, 1985)
> Maurice (James Ivory, 1986)
> Parting Glances (Bill Sherwood, 1986)
> Off Beat (Michael Dinner, 1986)
> Good Morning, Babylon (Taviani Brothers, 1987)
> Student Exchange (Mollie Miller, 1987)
> Back to the Beach (Lyndall Hobbs, 1987)
> La Bamba (Luis Valdez, 1987)
> Mannequin (Michael Gotlieb, 1987)
> Hairspray (John Waters, 1988)
> Die Hard (John McTiernan, 1988)
> Field of Dreams (Phil Alden Robinson, 1989)
> Dances With Wolves (Kevin Costner, 1990)
> Ghost (Jerry Zucker, 1990)
> Peacemaker (Kevin S. Tenney, 1990)
> Don't Tell Her It's Me (Malcolm Mowbray, 1990)
> Daughters of the Dust (Julie Dash, 1991)
> The Rocketeer (Joe Johnston, 1991)
> True Identity (Charles Lane, 1991)
> Beauty and the Beast (Gary Trousdale, Kirk Wise,
> 1991)
> Salmonberries (Percy Adlon, 1991)
> Zebrahead (Anthony Drazan, 1992)
> Thunderheart (Michael Apted, 1992)
> Sister Act (Emile Ardolino, 1992)
> Baraka (Ron Fricke, 1992)
> Swing Kids (Thomas Carter, 1993)
> Guarding Tess (Hugh Wilson, 1994)
>
=== message truncated ===
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2048
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:09pm
Subject: Re: American Film List
"Kindun" over "Casino"?
And where's "Mala Noche" and "Ornette: Made in
America"?
--- MG4273@a... wrote:
> This list contains outstanding American feature
> length films, each one by a
> different director (with a few exceptions). It is
> intended as a replacement
> for the not-very-good AFI list of top 100 films -
> although this list has far
> more than 100 movies. The hope is that such film
> lists can be used as educational
> tools, to introduce the public to a sampling of
> outstanding films and
> directors.
> The restriction of one film per director is
> especially unfair to directors
> like John Ford or Alfred Hitchcock, who would
> otherwsie have many films on the
> list.
> The films are arranged chronologically.
> I tried to make sure the list was full of comedies,
> musicals, thrillers and
> science fiction films, unlike many such lists.
> Comments welcome!
> Mike Grost
>
> Tillie's Punctured Romance (Mack Sennett, 1914)
> The Hypocrites (Lois Weber, 1915)
> Alias Jimmy Valentine (Maurice Tourneur, 1915)
> Intolerance (D.W. Griffith, 1916)
> Tom Sawyer (William Desmond Taylor, 1917)
> Daddy-Long-Legs (Marshall Neilan, 1919)
> The Mark of Zorro (Fred Niblo, 1920)
> Within Our Gates (Oscar Michaux, 1920)
> Outside the Law (Tod Browning, 1921)
> Camille (Ray C. Smallwood, 1921)
> Robin Hood (Alan Dwan, 1922)
> The Toll of the Sea (Chester M. Franklin, 1922)
> Beau Brummel (Harry Beaumont, 1923)
> Scaramouche (Rex Ingram, 1923)
> Our Hospitality (Buster Keaton, Jack Blystone, 1923)
> Sherlock, Jr. (Buster Keaton, 1924)
> Girl Shy (Fred Newmeyer, Sam Taylor, 1924)
> Greed (Erich von Stroheim, 1924)
> The Gold Rush (Charlie Chaplin, 1925)
> The Big Parade (King Vidor, 1925)
> Tumbleweeds (King Baggott, 1925)
> Hands Up! (Clarence Badger, 1926)
> The Bat (Roland West, 1926)
> Sunrise (Friedrich Wilhelm Murnau, 1927)
> West Point (Eddie Sedgwick, 1928)
> The Kiss (Jacques Feyder, 1929)
> Thunderbolt (Josef von Sternberg, 1929)
> Shooting Straight (George Archainbaud, 1930)
> Union Depot (Alfred E. Green, 1931)
> Shanghai Express (Josef von Sternberg, 1932)
> Horse Feathers (Norman Z. MacLeod, 1932)
> Lady Killer (Roy Del Ruth, 1933)
> The Black Cat (Edgar G. Ulmer, 1934)
> Cleopatra (Cecil B. De Mille, 1934)
> One Night of Love (Victor Schertzinger, 1934)
> We Live Again (Rouben Mamoulian, 1934)
> The Mystery of Mr. X (Edgar Selwyn, 1934)
> Phantom Empire (Otto Brower, B. Reeves Eason, 1935)
> Fury (Fritz Lang, 1936)
> Swingtime (George Stevens, 1936)
> Stand-In (Tay Garnett, 1937)
> Double Wedding (Richard Thorpe, 1937)
> The Great Garrick (James Whale, 1937)
> History is Made at Night (Frank Borzage, 1937)
> Parnell (John M. Stahl, 1937)
> The Man Who Found Himself (Lew Landers, 1937)
> The Patient in Room 18 (Bobby Connolly, Crane
> Wilbur, 1938)
> Mr. Smith Goes to Washington (Frank Capra, 1939)
> The Wizard of Oz (Victor Fleming, 1939)
> The Shop Around the Corner (Ernst Lubitsch, 1940)
> His Girl Friday (Howard Hawks, 1940)
> Fantasia (Ben Sharpsteen, 1940)
> Swamp Water (Jean Renoir, 1941)
> Sullivan's Travels (Preston Sturges, 1942)
> True To Life (George Marshall, 1942)
> Now, Voyager (Irving Rapper, 1942)
> I Married a Witch (René Clair, 1942)
> It Started With Eve (Henry Koster, 1943)
> Ministry of Fear (Fritz Lang, 1943)
> The Gang's All Here (Busby Berkley, 1943)
> Going My Way (Leo McCarey, 1944)
> Mr. Skeffington (Vincent Sherman, 1944)
> Golden Earrings (Mitchell Leisen, 1947)
> The Exile (Max Ophuls, 1947)
> Magick Lantern Cycle (Kenneth Anger, 1947-1969)
> Letter From an Unknown Woman (Max Ophuls, 1948)
> He Walked By Night (Anthony Mann, 1948)
> The Street With No Name (William Keighley, 1948)
> White Heat (Raoul Walsh, 1949)
> Intruder in the Dust (Clarence Brown, 1949)
> Criss Cross (Robert Siodmak, 1949)
> The Lawless (Joseph Losey, 1950)
> Stars in My Crown (Jacques Tourneur, 1950)
> Panic in the Streets (Elia Kazan, 1950)
> The Day the Earth Stood Still (Robert Wise, 1951)
> Pat and Mike (George Cukor, 1952)
> Singin' in the Rain (Stanley Donen, Gene Kelly,
> 1952)
> On Dangerous Ground (Nicholas Ray, 1952)
> Julius Caesar (Joseph L. Mankiewicz, 1953)
> Crime Wave (André De Toth, 1953)
> Private Hell 36 (Don Siegel, 1954)
> The Big Combo (Joseph H. Lewis, 1955)
> The Phenix City Story (Phil Karlson, 1955)
> Kiss Me Deadly (Robert Aldrich, 1955)
> This Island Earth (Joseph M. Newman, 1955)
> Seven Men From Now (Budd Boetticher, 1956)
> Giant (George Stevens, 1956)
> Forbidden Planet (Fred Wilcox, 1956)
> Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter (Frank Tashlin, 1957)
> The Incredible Shrinking Man (Jack Arnold, 1957)
> A Time to Love and a Time to Die (Douglas Sirk,
> 1958)
> Vertigo (Alfred Hitchcock, 1958)
> Touch of Evil (Orson Welles, 1958)
> Some Came Running (Vincente Minnelli, 1959)
> Dog Star Man (Stan Brakhage, 1959-1963)
> Night Tide (Curtis Harrington, 1960)
> The Flower Thief (Ron Rice, 1960)
> Sergeant Rutledge (John Ford, 1960)
> Homicidal (William Castle, 1961)
> The Pit and the Pendulum (Roger Corman, 1961)
> Lilies of the Field (Ralph Nelson, 1963)
> Flaming Creatures (Jack Smith, 1963)
> Shock Corridor (Samuel Fuller 1963)
> The Outer Limits: The Forms of Things Unknown (Gerd
> Oswald, 1964)
> Bunny Lake is Missing (Otto Preminger, 1965)
> The Trouble With Angels (Ida Lupino, 1965)
> What Did You Do in the War, Daddy? (Blake Edwards,
> 1966)
> Fahrenheit 451 (François Truffaut, 1966)
> Doctor, You've Got to be Kidding (Peter Tewksbury,
> 1967)
> Bonnie and Clyde (Arthur Penn, 1967)
> Annie Get Your Gun (Clark Jones, Jack Sydow, 1967)
> Rosemary's Baby (Roman Polanski, 1968)
> Planet of the Apes (Franklin J. Schaffner, 1968)
> 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)
> Tarzan: The Four O'Clock Army (Alex Nichol, 1968)
> The Immortal Story (Orson Welles, 1969)
> Run a Crooked Mile (Gene Levitt, 1969)
> The Andersonville Trial (George C. Scott, 1970)
> Incident in San Francisco (Don Medford, 1970)
> Zabriskie Point (Michelangelo Antonioni, 1970)
> WR: Mysteries of the Organism (Dusan Makavejev,
> 1971)
> Two Lane Blacktop (Monte Hellman, 1971)
> Avanti! (Billy Wilder, 1972)
> Junior Bonner (Sam Peckinpah, 1972)
> A Woman Under the Influence (John Cassavetes, 1974)
> The Questor Tapes (Richard A. Colla, 1974)
> Three Women (Robert Altman, 1977)
> Providence (Alain Resnais, 1977)
> Ishi: The Last of His Tribe (Robert Ellis Miller,
> 1978)
> Melvin and Howard (Jonathan Demme, 1980)
> Grease II (Patricia Birch, 1982)
> The Year of Living Dangerously (Peter Weir, 1982)
> Tron (Steve Lisberger, 1982)
> Don't Cry, Its Only Thunder (Peter Werner, 1982)
> My Favorite Year (Richard Benjamin, 1982)
> Tex (Tim Hunter, 1982)
> Valley Girl (Martha Coolidge, 1983)
> Eddie and the Cruisers (Martin Davidson, 1983)
> Places in the Heart (Robert Benton, 1984)
> Streets of Fire (Walter Hill, 1984)
> Romancing the Stone (Robert Zemeckis, 1984)
> Mask (Peter Bogdanovich, 1985)
> Tuff Turf (Fritz Kiersch, 1985)
> Maurice (James Ivory, 1986)
> Parting Glances (Bill Sherwood, 1986)
> Off Beat (Michael Dinner, 1986)
> Good Morning, Babylon (Taviani Brothers, 1987)
> Student Exchange (Mollie Miller, 1987)
> Back to the Beach (Lyndall Hobbs, 1987)
> La Bamba (Luis Valdez, 1987)
> Mannequin (Michael Gotlieb, 1987)
> Hairspray (John Waters, 1988)
> Die Hard (John McTiernan, 1988)
> Field of Dreams (Phil Alden Robinson, 1989)
> Dances With Wolves (Kevin Costner, 1990)
> Ghost (Jerry Zucker, 1990)
> Peacemaker (Kevin S. Tenney, 1990)
> Don't Tell Her It's Me (Malcolm Mowbray, 1990)
> Daughters of the Dust (Julie Dash, 1991)
> The Rocketeer (Joe Johnston, 1991)
> True Identity (Charles Lane, 1991)
> Beauty and the Beast (Gary Trousdale, Kirk Wise,
> 1991)
> Salmonberries (Percy Adlon, 1991)
> Zebrahead (Anthony Drazan, 1992)
> Thunderheart (Michael Apted, 1992)
> Sister Act (Emile Ardolino, 1992)
> Baraka (Ron Fricke, 1992)
> Swing Kids (Thomas Carter, 1993)
> Guarding Tess (Hugh Wilson, 1994)
>
=== message truncated ===
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2049
From:
Date: Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:27pm
Subject: Re:American Film List
Background to the list:
Every video store in the USA seems to have the AFI Top 100 list prominently
posted. This list has been widely (and justly) criticised for failing to inform
average movie renters about the genuine wide range of American movies. My
list is an attempt to inform the same group of non-cinephiles, about some of the
great films out there - and great directors.
Choices: Each director is represented by a really good film. Is this the
director's BEST film? Heck no! Example: "The Shop Around the Corner" on the list
is a classic by Ernst Lubitsch. Is is better than "Trouble in Paradise" or
"The Love Parade" or other great Lubitsch films? Duh.. You could debate this for
days. No attempt is being made to say these are the directors' best films.
John Ford could have been represnted by dozens of great films.
Scorsese: Kundun is a classic, IMHO. And that's good enough. It is just
important that Martin Scorsese be represented on the list by a major film.
(Although when the author of a book on Scorsese suggests Casino, it's time to listen!)
Independent Films: I've never seen a movie by Shirley Clarke ("Ornette: Made
in
America"). Or Jon Jost or Mark Rappaport or Barbara Loden. The list is very
weak on such independents. It needs improvement here. And most of the
experimental films I've seen are shorts.
Roland West. I love both "The Bat" (1926, silent) and "The Bat Whispers"
(1930, sound remake). David Ehrenstein is right: the two films are drastically
different; West rethought everything from the ground up when he made them. It's
a tough choice... His silent "The Monster" is also good, and the early talkie
"Alibi" has its merits. Has anyone on a_film_by ever seen West's "Corsair"?
That's the Roland West film that got the director into Expressive Esoterica in
the Sarris "American Cinema". Where is this film? And how come you can never
see anything by Paul Fejos? We want "Broadway"! We want "Broadway"!
I really had fun making the list.
Mike Grost
2050
From:
Date: Sat Sep 20, 2003 10:13pm
Subject: Re: American Film List
In a message dated 9/20/03 2:10:54 PM, cellar47@y... writes:
>"Kindun" over "Casino"?
I have to say that I'm with Mike on this one - of course, assuming his
exclusion of "Casino" is meant to reflect negatively on that film. It's not without
interesting things, but I'm not sure Scorsese was ultimately successful in
melding the documentary/anthropology angle of the film with the actual story.
The opening credit sequence is, however, wonderful.
I like "Kundun" a great deal: I thought this to be a very rich, subtle film.
My vote for the best Scorsese still goes to his short from "New York
Stories," the amazing "Life Lessons." Along with "After Hours," it's a bold,
fantastically realized testament to what this director can achieve on a small scale.
Peter
http://hometown.aol.com/ptonguette/index.html
2051
From:
Date: Sat Sep 20, 2003 10:15pm
Subject: Godard on Godard
In a message dated 9/13/03 4:57:08 AM, tosh3@e... writes:
>Godard on Godard: Critical Writings, by Jean-Luc Godard
This is a great one. There's a very useful piece included here where Godard
offers his impressions of a half dozen filmmakers in the form of several
paragraph-long "encyclopedia"-like entries. I believe the piece is called "A
Dictionary of Directors" or something to that effect. I have his "entry" on Welles
committed to memory (give or take a word or two):
"May we be accursed if we forget for one second that he alone with Griffith,
one in silent days, one sound, managed to start up that marvelous little
electric train. All of us, always, will owe him everything."
Kinda sums things up, no?
Peter
http://hometown.aol.com/ptonguette/index.html
2052
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Sep 21, 2003 2:27am
Subject: Re: American Film List
I don't think it's "documentary/anthropology" at all,
but rather iconography. The two film it's most like
are "2 or 3 Things I Know About Her" and "2001."
Marty's utilization of the album cover for "Noel
Coward in Las Vegas" to create the scene where DeNiro
and Pesci meet in the desert is in a class by itself
in terms of image creation.
Also he told me that what got him hooked on the DeNiro
character was when he heard that he would sit in his
office alone in his shorts with his pants in the
closet so as not to desrupt the crease. He'd only put
them on when people came in for meetings.
This is quite a different film from "GoodFellas"
I hope to write about it at length some day.
--- ptonguette@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/20/03 2:10:54 PM,
> cellar47@y... writes:
>
> >"Kindun" over "Casino"?
>
> I have to say that I'm with Mike on this one - of
> course, assuming his
> exclusion of "Casino" is meant to reflect negatively
> on that film. It's not without
> interesting things, but I'm not sure Scorsese was
> ultimately successful in
> melding the documentary/anthropology angle of the
> film with the actual story.
> The opening credit sequence is, however, wonderful.
>
> I like "Kundun" a great deal: I thought this to be a
> very rich, subtle film.
> My vote for the best Scorsese still goes to his
> short from "New York
> Stories," the amazing "Life Lessons." Along with
> "After Hours," it's a bold,
> fantastically realized testament to what this
> director can achieve on a small scale.
>
> Peter
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/ptonguette/index.html
>
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2053
From:
Date: Sun Sep 21, 2003 5:08am
Subject: Big Monday (Michael T. Rehfield)
Camera Movement Alert:
Yesterday the Independent Film Channel showed:
"Big Monday" Writer-Director: Michael T. Rehfield, 1998.
This is a digital video. It is a fiction film about a New Yorker who goes to
a job interview.
Most unusual feature: it seems to be shot in one long 74 minute take.
This is like the later film "Russian Ark" (shot December 23, 2001, if memory
serves). Although it is on a smaller scale of production.
The events of Rehfield's films are trivial - it is just a little low key
comedy. But watching the camera move all over New York City is a lot of fun.
This is definitely worth seeing!
Mike Grost
2054
From: Adrian Martin
Date: Sun Sep 21, 2003 3:13pm
Subject: Top 100 list
Hi Mike -
Any 'best of' list that includes TUFF TURF has my instant endorsement!
You obviously have a well-developed taste for a certain slice of American
cinema of the 80s that centres around teen movies and other closely related
'pop' forms - as well as the directors like Fritz Kiersch, Tim Hunter,
Michael Dinner, Martha Coolidge, etc etc, who worked in and around these
forms. I believe it's a rich (aesthetically and culturally) and quite
critically under-cultivated patch of cinema. I dream of writing a book about
it one day ... (but from a perspective that would not restrict itself to
America: there are interesting teen movies made EVERYWHERE!)
On the more mainstream side of this generic patch, I personally would
include on any such list one good John Hughes, like FERRIS BUELLER'S DAY
OFF, and also Amy Heckerling's CLUELESS, an inexhaustibly entertaining
movie. On the less well-known side, I would venture Ron Nyswaner's THE
PRINCE OF PENNSYLVANIA, Matthew Robbins' THE LEGEND OF BILLIE JEAN, and so
many others ...
We on this list have talked a lot lately about the history and effects of
auteurism, but I think many auteurists really gave up - or were simply
looking elsewhere - when the entire teen movie phenomenon swept up during
the '70s. (Horror cinema was better served in this respect.) As a result, a
lot of impressive talents of that time and since have languished with
scarcely any recognition at all.
Adrian (no longer teen) Martin
2055
From:
Date: Sun Sep 21, 2003 0:19pm
Subject: Re: Top 100 List
Adrian-
Teen movies are fascinating!
They are the modern commercial genre that is closest to traditional
filmmaking of the 1910's-1960's. They have plot, characters, comedy and human warmth.
You can go to them, and see a "real movie", with much of the same appeal as
film classics. Many have nice musical interludes, too.
Recently, Robin Wood wrote a long article in Cineaction, analyzing recent
(1990's) teen comedies. I was floored, but pleased, to see a well known critic
endorse such films. Usualy, teen movies are dismissed on the same terms as all
other genres of film comedy. "It's a funny movie", someone will say, "but don't
you think its awfully silly?" People have been saying this since the days of
Max Linder and John Bunny. (Bunny's "Her Crowning Glory" (1911) is a movie
that had me reduced to helpless laughter. It's very sweet.)
Other notes: Adrian Martin is right: Matthew Robbins' "Corvette Summer" and
"The Legend of Billy Jean", Amy Hecker's "Clueless" are really good too! I
probably should add them to the list. "Corvette Summer" (1978) perhaps started the
whole genre. For some reason, "Clueless" is a film that is especially well
loved by women. Many women friends have said that it is a favorite of theirs.
Women also love Sandra Bullock. There are long lines of women at theaters
whenever one of her films open.
The teen genre has given many women opportunities to make commercial films.
Martha Cooolidge got her first chance to make a commercial film with "Valley
Girl". "Student Exchange", a TV-movie directed by Mollie Miller, is one of the
zippiest of the teen comedies.
So far, I've liked John Hughes' writing in "Pretty in Pink" more than any
films he directed himself.
Will watch for Ron Nyswaner and "The Prince of Pennsylvania".
On the Top 100: I agree, restricting oneself to any one nationality, such as
the USA or France, in discussing movies is senseless. But we have a problem
here with the AFI Top 100 American film list: it is everywhere! Every video
store has a big wall of tapes, with posters showing the Top 100, and the movies
separated out for renting down below. There are TV specials. It's in libraries.
People who know nothing about film are using it for their film education.
Alternatives are needed!
Jonathan Rosenbaum has an excellent Top 100 American Film List and article on
the Chicago Reader web site.
Mike Grost
2056
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Sep 21, 2003 4:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: Top 100 List
"Ferris Bueller's Day Off"is far and away my favorite
teen movie from the period you've been citing. I quite
like the fact that the whole motor for the plot is
Ferris cheering his friend Cameron up rather than
knne-jerk pseudo-"rebellion" or sexual leering. The
climactic "Twist and Shout" number suggests Francois
Truffaut meets Cecil B. DeMille.
--- MG4273@a... wrote:
> Adrian-
> Teen movies are fascinating!
> They are the modern commercial genre that is closest
> to traditional
> filmmaking of the 1910's-1960's. They have plot,
> characters, comedy and human warmth.
> You can go to them, and see a "real movie", with
> much of the same appeal as
> film classics. Many have nice musical interludes,
> too.
> Recently, Robin Wood wrote a long article in
> Cineaction, analyzing recent
> (1990's) teen comedies. I was floored, but pleased,
> to see a well known critic
> endorse such films. Usualy, teen movies are
> dismissed on the same terms as all
> other genres of film comedy. "It's a funny movie",
> someone will say, "but don't
> you think its awfully silly?" People have been
> saying this since the days of
> Max Linder and John Bunny. (Bunny's "Her Crowning
> Glory" (1911) is a movie
> that had me reduced to helpless laughter. It's very
> sweet.)
> Other notes: Adrian Martin is right: Matthew
> Robbins' "Corvette Summer" and
> "The Legend of Billy Jean", Amy Hecker's "Clueless"
> are really good too! I
> probably should add them to the list. "Corvette
> Summer" (1978) perhaps started the
> whole genre. For some reason, "Clueless" is a film
> that is especially well
> loved by women. Many women friends have said that it
> is a favorite of theirs.
> Women also love Sandra Bullock. There are long lines
> of women at theaters
> whenever one of her films open.
> The teen genre has given many women opportunities to
> make commercial films.
> Martha Cooolidge got her first chance to make a
> commercial film with "Valley
> Girl". "Student Exchange", a TV-movie directed by
> Mollie Miller, is one of the
> zippiest of the teen comedies.
> So far, I've liked John Hughes' writing in "Pretty
> in Pink" more than any
> films he directed himself.
> Will watch for Ron Nyswaner and "The Prince of
> Pennsylvania".
> On the Top 100: I agree, restricting oneself to any
> one nationality, such as
> the USA or France, in discussing movies is
> senseless. But we have a problem
> here with the AFI Top 100 American film list: it is
> everywhere! Every video
> store has a big wall of tapes, with posters showing
> the Top 100, and the movies
> separated out for renting down below. There are TV
> specials. It's in libraries.
> People who know nothing about film are using it for
> their film education.
> Alternatives are needed!
> Jonathan Rosenbaum has an excellent Top 100 American
> Film List and article on
> the Chicago Reader web site.
>
> Mike Grost
>
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2057
From: Paul Fileri
Date: Sun Sep 21, 2003 5:13pm
Subject: Re: Top 100 List
Mike:
> Recently, Robin Wood wrote a long article in Cineaction, analyzing recent
> (1990's) teen comedies. I was floored, but pleased, to see a well known critic
> endorse such films. Usualy, teen movies are dismissed on the same terms as all
> other genres of film comedy. "It's a funny movie", someone will say, "but don't
> you think its awfully silly?" People have been saying this since the days of
The Robin Wood article is worth noting. Ahead of the curve, back in 1989 Adrian
wrote an article making the case for teen movies in _Cinema Papers_.
"The Teen Movie: Why Bother?" CP 75, Sep 1989.
And subsequently, in _Cinema Papers_ 89 there was an exchange between Adrian and
Noel King about the original piece.
seeing that exceptional teen movie COLD WATER today,
Paul
2058
From: Jason Guthartz
Date: Sun Sep 21, 2003 6:37pm
Subject: Re: American Film List
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> This list contains outstanding American feature length films, each
one by a
> different director (with a few exceptions). It is intended as a
replacement
> for the not-very-good AFI list of top 100 films - although this
list has far
> more than 100 movies. The hope is that such film lists can be used
as educational
> tools, to introduce the public to a sampling of outstanding films
and
> directors.
I may be ultra-sensitive to anything remotely touching on the
disgusting and deadly nationalistic words and deeds saturating the
air, so none of the following is intended as a personal attack...
I love lists as much as the next guy, but of the infinite ways of
categorizing films, isn't "American" the most meaningless? The
notion of "national" cinemas can be useful in some cases: Italian
Neorealism, French New Wave, etc. But even if we acquiesce
to "American" as a broad category more accessible to your average
American filmgoer, wouldn't the category of "English-language films"
more accurately reflect the central issue?
A reminder from Jonathan Rosenbaum's "Alternate 100" article:
"Unlike every other comparable national film institution, the
American Film Institute restricts its focus to films of its own
nationality. (The organization was launched during the Johnson
administration, at a time when patriots must have been concerned
about Americans seeing too many foreign pictures.)"
The more significant problem with lists such as the AFI's goes beyond
what films they do (not) include -- it's that they perpetuate the
notion that popularity should guide individual decisions and tastes.
I'm much more interested in personal lists such as yours, Mike,
because I have the opportunity to read your analyses and evaluations,
to determine whether what you say is interesting or provocative (and
yes, to a degree, reflective of my personal tastes), and then to use
your list as a "guide into unknown worlds". The critic-as-auteur, if
you'd like. On the other hand, composite lists such as the AFI's --
even when they include critics who "cineastes" are more likely to
respect, e.g., Village Voice polls -- are to "classics" what the
weekly box office scorecards are to new releases. General lack of
critical thought and (subsequent) devaluation of art -- and the
(subsequent) division of films into categories that have little to do
with art (e.g., genres) -- are the real problems, not the lists.
Jason
2059
From:
Date: Sun Sep 21, 2003 5:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: Top 100 List
On the topic of teen movies, you can hardly beat Cameron Crowe's two entries
in the genre: "Say Anything" and "Almost Famous." Crowe's got such a winning
sensibility; he loves his characters and negotiates the dramas of their lives
with amazing warmth and ease. If his hero is Billy Wilder, I must say that
the Wilder films he's been influenced most by are the romantic ones, like "Love
in the Afternoon" and maybe "Avanti!" He's also a subtle and underrated
stylist: I can think of twenty moments in "Almost Famous" which communicate
primarily through visual expression.
One of the more interesting teen movies I've seen is one which actually
inverts most of the positive qualities Mike discusses: Altman's "O.C. and Stiggs,"
which I believe Pat McGilligan once described as a "laying to waste" of
Altman's own youth. It certainly qualifies as another of his genre deconstructions,
taking apart a popular genre and turning its rules on their heads. His
characters couldn't be further from ingratiating and their exploits couldn't be
further from funny. So much of this is realized through Altman's visual style
which distances the audience from the action. "O.C. and Stiggs" is a real
example of the powers of mise en scene to transform a script.
Peter
http://hometown.aol.com/ptonguette/index.html
2060
From:
Date: Sun Sep 21, 2003 5:37pm
Subject: Vidor's An American Romance
I wanted to post a quick note that King Vidor's rarely shown "An American
Romance" will be airing on Turner Classic Movies on Wednesday, September 24
at
8:00 AM.
I know both Fred and Tag have singled this film out as among Vidor's very
best, so it seems like a must-see. If I have anything particularly
interesting
to say about it once I've seen it, I'll see if I can't work up a post.
Peter
http://hometown.aol.com/ptonguette/index.html
2061
From: Joshua Rothkopf
Date: Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:27pm
Subject: Re: Top 100 List
Peter:
> On the topic of teen movies, you can hardly beat Cameron Crowe's two entries
> in the genre: "Say Anything" and "Almost Famous." Crowe's got such a winning
> sensibility; he loves his characters and negotiates the dramas of their lives
> with amazing warmth and ease.
And yet, he topped it himself with FAST TIMES AT RIDGEMONT HIGH, a film he didn't
direct (it was Heckerling) but one he wrote and is definitely the author of, most
notably in a literal sense. Your comment above holds nicely w/r/t FAST TIMES, looser
and warmer than any of his own directions (though I really like the two you mention).
Arguably, it's been a more influential teen movie as well, with all cinematic stoners
traceable back to Sean Penn's mesmerizing Jeff Spicoli: "Dude, that's my skull!"
-joshua
2062
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:09pm
Subject: Re: Re: Top 100 List
"O.C. and Stiggs" also manages to be both homoerotic
and homophobic at the same time.
Quite a feat.
I like "Say Anything" quite a bit -- particularly the
ending. Can't say the same of the rest of Crowe's work
thus far.
Admire Billy Wilder though he might (and what
writer-director doesn't?) Crowe's work is far too
soft-edged for him to aspire to the heights of such a
master.
--- ptonguette@a... wrote:
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2063
From: Damien Bona
Date: Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:23am
Subject: Re: Top 100 List
Prince of Pennsylvania only played for a week in New York City, but
its run here constitutes a minor legend in the annals of theatre
exhibition and ballyhoo.
Next to the film's title on the marquee of the 68th Street Playhouse
was a one-word quote: "Improbable!" -- NY Times.
2064
From: jaketwilson
Date: Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:03am
Subject: Re: Top 100 List
ptonguette@a... wrote:
> One of the more interesting teen movies I've seen is one which
actually inverts most of the positive qualities Mike discusses:
Altman's "O.C. and Stiggs," which I believe Pat McGilligan once
described as a "laying to waste" of Altman's own youth. It certainly
qualifies as another of his genre deconstructions,
> taking apart a popular genre and turning its rules on their heads.
His characters couldn't be further from ingratiating and their
> exploits couldn't be further from funny.
I actually do find O.C. AND STIGGS really funny, in that snide,
nihilistic '80s Hollywood way (also a big part of the John Hughes
oeuvre). In a way it seems like a self-critical reworking of MASH,
one of the films which originally helped bring that sensibility into
the mainstream.
Anyone seen Jonathan Bernstein's book on '80s teen movies, PRETTY IN
PINK? It's lightweight but very readable.
JTW
2065
From: jaketwilson
Date: Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:06am
Subject: Re: Top 100 List
"Damien Bona" wrote:
>
> Prince of Pennsylvania only played for a week in New York City, but
> its run here constitutes a minor legend in the annals of theatre
> exhibition and ballyhoo.
>
> Next to the film's title on the marquee of the 68th Street
Playhouse
> was a one-word quote: "Improbable!" -- NY Times.
This reminds me of the video cover for DUDE, WHERE'S MY CAR? which
described the film as "Fitfully Amusing!" Accurate enough...
JTW
2066
From: Henrik Sylow
Date: Mon Sep 22, 2003 8:29am
Subject: Re: teen film
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in
awhile, you could miss it."
My favorite quote from my favorite teen film (and one of my favorite
films even). I adore... Nay, I Worship, Ferris Bueller, and for that
matter "Ferris Buellers Day Off", because it is the ultimative and
definitive day dream.
Far from being just a fantasy (and whom amongst us wouldnt love to be
Ferris, if just for one day), it is a look at the moment in our life,
almost down to the hour, just before we grew up, just before we
matured and become responsible. Just before we became an adult.
The genius of Ferris is to make us see, that we are so preoccupied
with unimportant stuff, that we forget to live; Life does move pretty
fast, and it never moves faster than when you are becomming an adult.
What Ferris offers us is a chance to forget who we are, to forget our
age and troubles and remember that one day in our lives, where we
still were free and had fun.
But when you mention Ferris, you have to mention John Hughes,
especially his triology about teen angst (Sixteen Candles, The
Breakfast Club and Ferris Buellers Day Off). These film were
groundbreaking, as no films before them showed what it was like to be
a teenager nor took their dreams and fears serious.
Personally I dont care much for "Fast Times at Ridgemont High", it is
to much P A R T Y. As Peter, I go for "Almost Famous", because it is a
personal film and because it is the most honest teen film for many
years. And if we have to take Heckerling into account, her to date
most honest attempt at making a real film is "Loser".
Coming back to where I began; At the heart of a good teen film we have
one or more teenagers, who come to terms with being a teen, who
realise that this is the best period of their lives. Where the
traditional "Coming of Age" story is about losing ones childhood
innocence and becoming an adult, the teen film does recognize coming
of age, but refuses to become an adult just now, as there still are a
few more years to go.
Vote Ferris for President
Henrik
2067
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon Sep 22, 2003 1:48pm
Subject: Re: Re: Top 100 List
"Dude Where's My Car?" is more than "fitfully
amusing." It's the closest the American cinema has
come to "Celine and Julie Go Boating."
--- jaketwilson wrote:
> "Damien Bona" wrote:
> >
> > Prince of Pennsylvania only played for a week in
> New York City, but
> > its run here constitutes a minor legend in the
> annals of theatre
> > exhibition and ballyhoo.
> >
> > Next to the film's title on the marquee of the
> 68th Street
> Playhouse
> > was a one-word quote: "Improbable!" -- NY Times.
>
> This reminds me of the video cover for DUDE, WHERE'S
> MY CAR? which
> described the film as "Fitfully Amusing!" Accurate
> enough...
>
> JTW
>
>
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2068
From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:48pm
Subject: Teen films
There were lots of auteurs who came out of teen movies, but not
many - Bob Clark, maybe - I'd want to take to a desert island.
(No, not even Bob Clark.) I know alot of people who were teens
at the time who feel about those films the way I do about 50s
scifi in toto - they are their youth. And like 50s scifi, I think that
teen movies played an important role in the evolution of
Hollywood. Near the end of the first boom, in '83, Goonies (a cult
favorite I share with many, like Ferris) and other late blooms had
moved the age limit of their leads down to about 13, reflecting
what was happening at the boxoffice (and still is), but also
invoking Romantic ideas of childhood that were as appropriate
in film as they once were in poetry. Another thing: the genres of
classical cinema were dying (Pale Rider was made the same
year as Goonies), and formally the teen movies absorned and
parodied all of them, several per film - an aspect of
carnivalesque form that was possible because basically you had
children in the main roles. A perfectly averge teen movie like
Weird Science was a good example of this.
Did anyone ever see Curtius Hanson's first film, Losin' It? I still
like it better than a lot of his recent stuff. It's Touch of Evil in color.
2069
From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Sep 22, 2003 6:06pm
Subject: Erratum
Goonies and Pale Rider were 85. And the classical genres didn't
die - they just aged ostentatiously for a while.
2070
From: filipefurtado
Date: Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:20pm
Subject: Re: Erratum
Bill, I'm a fan of Loosin' It (which was released here as a
Porky's sequel!). It's not great or anything but it's a lot
better than the average teen comedy. I like Hanson (with the
exception The Hand who rocks the Cradle), my favorite is
peobably Bad Influence.
I'm not the biggest fan of 80's teen comedies, probably for
the same reason most people like them. The're linked to me
mostly to nostalgia, and I really can't see much value as
films in them. But I do like a few Ferris, Fast Times (I do
like Clueless a good deal too), Valley Girl, Say Anything (my
favorite probably), The Sure Thing (far better than most of
the more respectable Rob Reiner films). Does Keith Gordon's
The Chocolat War counts as teen film? But when I think about
80's films featuring teens that I really want to watch again,
what comes to my mind are Dante's Gremlins and Explores or
Carpenter's Christine. But I have nothing against the genre.
There were a few really good ones in the last few years (10
Things I hate about You, Never Been Kissed, Josie and the
Pussycats...).
---
Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.
AntiPop-up UOL - É grátis!
http://antipopup.uol.com.br
2071
From: Joshua Rothkopf
Date: Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:19pm
Subject: Re: teen film
Henrik:
> Personally I dont care much for "Fast Times at Ridgemont High", it is
> to much P A R T Y. As Peter, I go for "Almost Famous", because it is a
> personal film and because it is the most honest teen film for many
> years.
...then:
> Coming back to where I began; At the heart of a good teen film we have
> one or more teenagers, who come to terms with being a teen, who
> realise that this is the best period of their lives. Where the
> traditional "Coming of Age" story is about losing ones childhood
> innocence and becoming an adult, the teen film does recognize coming
> of age, but refuses to become an adult just now, as there still are a
> few more years to go.
Frankly, Henrik, I don't understand your distinction here, given your aforementioned
preferences. Our personal differences on FAST TIMES aside, is ALMOST FAMOUS not a
textbook example of a coming-of-age story, following the protagonist's rock-n-roll
adventures as he, um, comes of age? Much is made of the Fugit character's youthful
appearance, his boyish enthusiasm that gains him access backstage, his losing his
virginity, his first major disappointment (a loss of innocence) at Russell's
backstabbing, etc.
Conversely, you hold FAST TIMES in lesser regard, though it fits your (above)
definition of a "good teen film" to a T: Yes, it does have plenty of "P A R T Y," shot
through with a tacit suspicion that these may be the best years of their lives. There's
the fuming Judge Reinhold character, pretending to a newfound maturity ("I think we
owe it to ourselves to see other people"), but discovering he's still very much a
lovesick boy. There's Jennifer Lason Leigh in a tender breakout performance,
indoctrinated into sex at "The Point," but still behaving (and looking) like a scared
child. And of course, there's her sexually experienced friend (played by Phoebe
Cates), whose public lessons in giving blowjobs don't spare her from peevish
heartache.
You call ALMOST FAMOUS a "personal" and "honest" film -- and I wholeheartedly
agree -- but wouldn't those bookish terms shift it from the teen film category as you
definite it? I've read that Cameron Crowe posed as a highschool student for 8 months
to write the novel of FAST TIMES, basically putting the gag of ALMOST FAMOUS into
practice. How is that not expressly personal and honest?
And as for personal, FAST TIMES is the film with Ray Walston -- in full KISS ME STUPID
mode as the fuming Mr. Hand -- not ALMOST FAMOUS. Wilder fans rejoice.
Explain, please.
-joshua
2072
From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:52am
Subject: GRAND ILLUSION and RULES OF THE GAME
Just an observation about the characters writers have to work with:
Radio and television and their progeny have produced generations of
observers rather than performers.
I watched GRAND ILLUSION yesterday in a series of Manny Farber's
(Negative Space) favorite films presented by the La Jolla Museum of
Contemporary Art in conjunction with a gallery showing of his art
works. One thing that struck me as a screenwriter is how Renoir
blended a staged play performance into both GRAND ILLUSION and RULES OF
THE GAME, and it seemed natural to believe that the characters of these
stories had learned to play instruments, recite, act, perform tricks,
etc as there were few outside forms of entertainment for most people at
that time.
Many of the characters of today's screenplays dealing with today's
times (not period pieces) are less skilled in interpersonal
entertainments (other than the sex scenes) and have less to develop in
regard to story.
2073
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Sep 23, 2003 5:19am
Subject: GRAND ILLUSION and RULES OF THE GAME and GET OVER IT
Elizabeth,
French filmmakers (Jacques Rivette, Jean-Claude Biette) still like to
have their characters in plays-within-plays, but of course these are
all professional productions - amateur theatrics are indeed long
gone.
Et al.,
A recent film - a teen film, no less! - in which the characters put
on a play is Tommy O'Haver's Get Over It, where they're all in the
school production of A Midsummer Night's Dream. I like Get Over It
and Tommy O'Haver's first film, Billy's Hollywood Screen Kiss.
Writing the presskit for BHSK, I was able to view a tape of O'Haver's
short films that he sent me (in exchange for a There's Always
Tomorrow tape I never got back...), and they are quite sophisticated.
When I interviewed him for the production notes he had just signed on
with Universal to write and direct Archie and His Friends, which he
had convinced them to do as a serious teen melodrama. Wonder what
ever became of it...
2074
From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Tue Sep 23, 2003 0:44pm
Subject: any Monicelli specialist?
Festival do Rio is going to have a Mario Monicelli retrospective. Aside from
Brancaleone, Compagni and Soliti Ignoti, what would be considered of major
importance?
Also: every year the festival "focus" on some country and exhibits a good
deal of recent films from the country in question. This year it's "Focus:
Italy". Do any of you have reference on the films below?
The list is:
Quello che cerchi, Marco Simon Puccioni
Le intermittenze del cuore, Fabio Carpi
Emma sono io, Francesco Falaschi
Figli, Marco Bechis
BB & il Cormorano, Edoardo Gabbriellini
Il piu bel giorno della mia vita, Cristina Comencini
La Meglio gioventů, Marco Tuilio Giordana (have heard about it; do you think
it's worth it?)
Io non ho paura, Gabriele Salvatores
Pater Familias, Francesco Patierno
Piazza delle cinque lune, Renzo Martinelli
Ricordati di me, Gabriele Muccino
Come te nessuno mai, Gabrielle Muccino
L'acqua & il fuoco, Luciano Emmer
Il cuore altrove, Pupi Avati
Un viaggio chiamato amore, Michel Placido
Un mondo d'amore, Aurelio Grimaldi
Rosa Funzeca, Aurelio Grimaldi
Ruy
2075
From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:20pm
Subject: Archie and His Friends
Archie and his friends must be "alive" as I heard talk of it at the San
Diego Comic Con in August.
2076
From:
Date: Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:20pm
Subject: Archie and Swamp Thing: Kiersch / Stefano
Comic books on TV in 1990:
There was a made for TV movie "Archie: To Riverdale and Back" (Dick Lowry, May 6, 1990). It was pleasant in a mild sort of way. Archie and friends were all grown up, and coming back for a high school reunion. (Note in passing: Archie comics are wildly popular in India, according to several Indian women friends - they loved them while growing up.)
There was also a Swamp Thing TV show that year. It contained a fine episode, "The Emerald Heart" (July 27, 1990). This half-hour episode was written by veteran Joseph Stefano, and directed by Fritz Kiersch. Both Kiersch and Stefano have attracted interest from a_film_by posters. This good episode is a credit to both, poetic, sensitive.
Mike Grost
(Who just saw "Sous les toits de Paris" (Under the roofs of Paris) (Clair, 1930), and who has the title tune running through his head. The street singer hero leads crowds on the street in this and other melodies, while his assistant sells "song sheets" with the lyrics. Talk about ordinary people being able to perform! Apparently these street singers were a fixture in Paris, and everyone would join in with them, right on the street. Clair has his camera on a crane, and keeps swooping over the crowds. Song sheets used to be big in the USA in 1930 too: my Mom and the other kids would all pool their pennies, and buy a nickel song sheet at the drug store. Then they'd stand under a street lamp, and sing the latest hits.)
2077
From: Robert Keser
Date: Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:09pm
Subject: Re: Archie and Swamp Thing: Kiersch / Stefano
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
I remember being astonished during a visit to London at a showing of
That's Entertainment (the first one) when most of the audience
merrily started singing along with Judy Garland in The Trolley Song.
Maybe I'm underestimating U.S. audiences, but I couldn't imagine them
taking part in such a public singalong, at least not at a cinema. It
could be that pub culture keeps alive that tradition of participatory
musical performance (or maybe it's those Terence Davies movies!)
--Bob Keser
> Mike Grost
> (Who just saw "Sous les toits de Paris" (Under the roofs of Paris)
(Clair, 1930), and who has the title tune running through his head.
The street singer hero leads crowds on the street in this and other
melodies, while his assistant sells "song sheets" with the lyrics.
Talk about ordinary people being able to perform! ...
2078
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Wed Sep 24, 2003 5:51am
Subject: SING ALONGS audience participation
The El Capitan theater in LA has had sing alongs for THE SOUND OF MUSIC
as well as other musicals. SD's Ken Theater had a week long booking for the
same show but I did not attend so I can't report. I'm sure some of the cult
movies get quite a bit of audience participation at their late night showings.
Personally, I'd rather see the original film without audience participation;
sometimes one viewer's laughter or commentary can really change a viewing
experience.
2079
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Sep 24, 2003 5:02pm
Subject: Singalongs
My film critic neighbor Mike Cidoni was tapped to "animate" a
Moulin Rouge singalong at the Grove (a local megaplex).
I don't have tv, but haven't there been amateur theatricals in Oz?
Maybe prison is the last refuge of "Hey kids, let's put on a show!"
Although from what I hear being forced to watch Jerry Springer
every afternoon is now part of the sentence.
2080
From:
Date: Wed Sep 24, 2003 9:10pm
Subject: David Gordon Green, Joseph Ruben
Joseph Ruben seems like a real auteur. His best films, Dreamscape, True Believer, Return to Paradise, are high quality thrillers with plenty of imagination.
David Gordon Green has real pictorial skills. The imagery and landscapes in his two movies (George Washington, All the Reall Girls) are at an Antonioni level. But he has problems with the dramtic elements in his movies. When he stops shooting landscapes, and starts conversations, the skill level plummets badly. He might be better cast as a maker of poetic documetary. Or work with a scriptwriter of the Tom Stoppard level.
Comments?
Mike Grost
2081
From:
Date: Wed Sep 24, 2003 5:46pm
Subject: Re: David Gordon Green
In a message dated 9/24/03 5:14:16 PM, MG4273@a... writes:
>David Gordon Green has real pictorial skills. The imagery and landscapes
>in his two movies (George Washington, All the Reall Girls) are at an
Antonioni
>level. But he has problems with the dramtic elements in his movies. When
>he stops shooting landscapes, and starts conversations, the skill level
>plummets badly. He might be better cast as a maker of poetic documetary.
>Or work with a scriptwriter of the Tom Stoppard level.
Hmm. I must say, Mike, that I'm a tremendous fan of the two features Green
has directed to date (and, heck, even his North Carolina School of the Arts
short, "Physical Pinball," has some qualities) and I think he not only has an
amazing eye but a pretty amazing ear too. His dialogue isn't the sort that wins
prizes, but it feels completely organic to his strange and poetic vision of
the world. Yes, it's sometimes stilted; yes, you don't necessarily find people
in real life who speak the way his characters do; but the same is true of
Howard Hawks' dialogue or, to name the obvious influence on Green's cinema to
date, Terence Malick's either. And I love the way he handles dramatic situations
so offhandedly: a routine melodrama could be made around the tragedy at the
center of "George Washington," but Green presents it in a far more opaque
manner, focusing on life before and after without getting bogged down in simplistic
'causes.' And I'm tempted to regard much of "George Washington" as the very
"poetic documentary" you want him to make - many scenes were improvised by the
non-professional cast (and based on their real life experiences).
I'm curious if other auteurists are as enthusiastic about his work as I am.
Peter
http://hometown.aol.com/ptonguette/index.html
2082
From:
Date: Wed Sep 24, 2003 5:51pm
Subject: Plays within films; Altman
Altman's delightful "Cookie's Fortune" (which I regard as the beginning of a
new phase in Altman, a more compassionate phase) devotes much time to the
amateur production of "Salome" being staged by Glenn Close's character. And his
new film, "The Company," deals with performers of the dancing kind.
Peter
http://hometown.aol.com/ptonguette/index.html
2083
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Sep 24, 2003 10:04pm
Subject: Re: Plays within films; Altman
The Absolute Master of plays-within-films is Jacques
Rivette. "Paris Nous Appartient" uses Shakespeare's
"Pericles." In "L'Amour Fou" he had Kalfon stage
Racine's "Andromache" and shot it as a documentary.
The ghosts in "Celine and Julie" are performaing (in a
highly theatrical manner )a text based on an obscure
James story, "The Other House." But Rivette was also
thinking of James' plays. "Out One" uses "Seven
Against Thebes" and "Prometheus Bound," in two
rehearsal productions that gradually merge in the
course of the action. "L'Amour par Terre" was inspired
by a long-running production here in L.A. called
"Tamara" -- which was perfomed all over a large
mansion. "Va Savoir" utilizes Pirandello's "As You
Desire Me." And "Noroit" is a reconfiguration of "The
Revenger's Tragedy" by Tourneur.
--- ptonguette@a... wrote:
> Altman's delightful "Cookie's Fortune" (which I
> regard as the beginning of a
> new phase in Altman, a more compassionate phase)
> devotes much time to the
> amateur production of "Salome" being staged by Glenn
> Close's character. And his
> new film, "The Company," deals with performers of
> the dancing kind.
>
> Peter
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/ptonguette/index.html
>
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2084
From: Tristan
Date: Wed Sep 24, 2003 10:31pm
Subject: Re: David Gordon Green
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/24/03 5:14:16 PM, MG4273@a... writes:
> I'm curious if other auteurists are as enthusiastic about his work
as I am.
>
> Peter
Well, I've only seen George Washington(need to change that soon), but
I'm as enthusiastic about that one.
2085
From: Kenneth Eisenstein
Date: Wed Sep 24, 2003 11:34pm
Subject: Re: David Gordon Green
I haven't seen George Washington in a while (and only once) but
remember loving it.
I was not into All the Real Girls at all, though the sequence with
the shot of the 3 legged dog
was beautiful.
Ken
Chicago
>In a message dated 9/24/03 5:14:16 PM, MG4273@a... writes:
>
>>David Gordon Green has real pictorial skills. The imagery and landscapes
>>in his two movies (George Washington, All the Reall Girls) are at an
>Antonioni
>>level. But he has problems with the dramtic elements in his movies. When
>>he stops shooting landscapes, and starts conversations, the skill level
>>plummets badly. He might be better cast as a maker of poetic documetary.
>>Or work with a scriptwriter of the Tom Stoppard level.
>
>Hmm. I must say, Mike, that I'm a tremendous fan of the two features Green
>has directed to date (and, heck, even his North Carolina School of the Arts
>short, "Physical Pinball," has some qualities) and I think he not only has an
>amazing eye but a pretty amazing ear too. His dialogue isn't the
>sort that wins
>prizes, but it feels completely organic to his strange and poetic vision of
>the world. Yes, it's sometimes stilted; yes, you don't necessarily
>find people
>in real life who speak the way his characters do; but the same is true of
>Howard Hawks' dialogue or, to name the obvious influence on Green's cinema to
>date, Terence Malick's either. And I love the way he handles
>dramatic situations
>so offhandedly: a routine melodrama could be made around the tragedy at the
>center of "George Washington," but Green presents it in a far more opaque
>manner, focusing on life before and after without getting bogged
>down in simplistic
>'causes.' And I'm tempted to regard much of "George Washington" as the very
>"poetic documentary" you want him to make - many scenes were improvised by the
>non-professional cast (and based on their real life experiences).
>
>I'm curious if other auteurists are as enthusiastic about his work as I am.
>
>Peter
>
>http://hometown.aol.com/ptonguette/index.html
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2086
From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Thu Sep 25, 2003 2:32am
Subject: Re: Plays within films
I'm no particular fan of RUSHMORE, but isn't much of it given over to Max's (improbably elaborate) theatre pieces? Unless school plays don't count.
2087
From:
Date: Thu Sep 25, 2003 7:38pm
Subject: David Gordon Green
I agree that Green's films are really beautiful. The opening 15 minutes of
George Washington, where his camera explores lush summer time North Carolina
landscapes, is one of the most beautiful sequences in recent American films.
Mike Grost
2088
From: jaketwilson
Date: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:11am
Subject: Re: Plays within films
Then there's Cassavetes' OPENING NIGHT.
Nearly all Cassavetes' films contain set-pieces of (mostly) amateur
performance: characters singing songs, running through comic turns,
etc.
A modern equivalent for song sheets might be karaoke scenes: DUETS,
LOVE HONOUR AND OBEY, ALL OR NOTHING.
JTW
2089
From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:23pm
Subject: festival do rio, first loves
im kwon-taek's brushes of fire (ivre de femmes e de peinture)
sofia coppola's lost in translation
i'd marry scarlet johandsson if she wanted
and, in a minor degree, but also de-lovely
john mcnaughton's speaking of sex
diego lerman's tan de repente
andré techiné's les égarés
those were enough to be able to forget hateful films by vinterberg, peter
mullan, carlos saura, neil jordan...
2090
From:
Date: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:37pm
Subject: Re: Plays within Films
In the 1960's, I loved "Sing Along With Mitch". Mitch Miller put out records, and had a TV show. The idea was to sing along with the lyrics on the TV screen, or the record jacket. He did old standards, not current hits ("The Man on the Flying Trapeze", or "I'm a Rambling Wreck from Georgia Tech, and a Hell of an Engineer!"). The show is recreated in Spielberg's "Catch Me If You Can". People of all ages would join in; it seemed natural.
The show helped integrate American TV. Series star Leslie Uggams was one of the first non-stereotyped black performers on a show that mainly featured whites. She could really sing!
Amateur theatrics play a central role in Jonathan Demme's delightful "Who Am I This Time?" (1986). His heroine and hero get involved with the local playhouse's performance of "A Streetcar Nmaed Desire", with surprizing results.
The high school students put on a musical revue in Grease 2 (1982).
The plays David Ehrenstein describes in Rivette films make the films sound tempting. I've read the ones by Aeschylus and Tourneur. And seen the 1932 film version of Pirandello's "As You Desire Me" (George Fitzmaurice). The only Racine read here so far is "Athalie".
Mike Grost
2091
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:51pm
Subject: Re: Re: Plays within Films
Yet another example: In Chereau's "Intimacy" the
heroine (played by Kerry Fox) is both performing in a
production of "The Glass Menagerie" and teaching
acting classes. The stress and strain of the
clandestine afair she's carrying on with the film's
hero (Mark Rylance) spill over into other areas of her
life and she takes to attacking one of her students
(Marianne Faithful) for no good reason.dThe student,
However, is wise to her and quietly tells her off in
no uncertain terms.
--- MG4273@a... wrote:
__________________________________
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2092
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Sep 26, 2003 8:30pm
Subject: Lost in translation
Ruy,
I, too, love the new Sofia Coppola film. Members with stock
portfolios will be getting my unsigned review in their copy of The
Economist Monday - also viewable (I think) on the mag's web
site. To avoid the Brief Encounter reference that is used in many
reviews, I mentioned, without listing any, "60s and 70s films
where two characters come together out of a shared sense of
isolation that is transformed into love, then separate at the end
for reasons not explained." How many can the group name?
PS I think same-sex couples and "couples" (eg Kings of the
Road) are appropriate to list as predecessors.
PPS - Scarlett Johanssen: very Godardian.
2093
From: Fred Camper
Date: Fri Sep 26, 2003 11:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: Plays within Films
MG4273@a... wrote:
>.
>The plays David Ehrenstein describes in Rivette films make the films sound tempting.
>
David is right to mention those films; they're great examples, but not
just because possible relationships between the content of the play and
the rest of the film. There's something else, something to me more
profound, going on in Rivette, the creation of multiple parallel spaces,
or parallel worlds, existing side by side with each opening of the space
of the other. "L'Amour Fou" is one of the great under-seen pioneering
and arguably avant-garde masterpieces of film history, and in that film
the play stuff was shot in 35mm, and the rest in 16mm (I hope I'm
remembering this right), creating very different looks in the print, and
adding to the sense of parallel but disjunct worlds.
- Fred
2094
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Sep 26, 2003 11:21pm
Subject: Re: Re: Plays within Films
Not quite correct, Fred. The overall film is 35mm.
There is, however a documentary crew within the story
that's shooting the rehearsals for the play in 16mm.
Rivette cuts freely between 35 and 16mm in rehearsal
scenes.
--- Fred Camper wrote:
>
>
> MG4273@a... wrote:
>
> >.
> >The plays David Ehrenstein describes in Rivette
> films make the films sound tempting.
> >
> David is right to mention those films; they're great
> examples, but not
> just because possible relationships between the
> content of the play and
> the rest of the film. There's something else,
> something to me more
> profound, going on in Rivette, the creation of
> multiple parallel spaces,
> or parallel worlds, existing side by side with each
> opening of the space
> of the other. "L'Amour Fou" is one of the great
> under-seen pioneering
> and arguably avant-garde masterpieces of film
> history, and in that film
> the play stuff was shot in 35mm, and the rest in
> 16mm (I hope I'm
> remembering this right), creating very different
> looks in the print, and
> adding to the sense of parallel but disjunct worlds.
>
> - Fred
>
>
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From: Fred Camper
Date: Fri Sep 26, 2003 11:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: Plays within Films
David Ehrenstein wrote:
>Not quite correct, Fred. The overall film is 35mm.
>
>
Thanks for the correction. That brings up the question of why I've only
ever seen this in 16mm, or at least, think so -- I mean, I saw it at the
MoMA decades ago, and I think that was 16mm. Has it ever been shown in
35mm with English subtitles?
- Fred
2096
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Sep 26, 2003 11:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: Plays within Films
Yes. It played the New York Film Festival in 1972 in
35mm with subtitles and was ever-so-briefly released
by New Yorker films a few months afterwards.
--- Fred Camper wrote:
>
>
> David Ehrenstein wrote:
>
> >Not quite correct, Fred. The overall film is 35mm.
> >
> >
> Thanks for the correction. That brings up the
> question of why I've only
> ever seen this in 16mm, or at least, think so -- I
> mean, I saw it at the
> MoMA decades ago, and I think that was 16mm. Has it
> ever been shown in
> 35mm with English subtitles?
>
> - Fred
>
>
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From: cjsuttree
Date: Sat Sep 27, 2003 4:09am
Subject: Re: David Gordon Green
I like _George Washington_ a great deal, but not so much
_All the Real Girls_; one has a kid who wants to be
the president of the United States, the other seems so
much more mundane. The thing I like best about
David Gordon Green is that he seems to be completely
without (above?) cynicism. This comes across both in
his films and in interviews (where he uses words like
"ambition" and "greatness" as if they are the most natural
thing to say in the world). It is such a rare quality,
especially in cinema. I heard his next film will be
a big studio production -- hope he fares well there.
Suttress
2098
From: cjsuttree
Date: Sat Sep 27, 2003 4:10am
Subject: Re: David Gordon Green
I like _George Washington_ a great deal, but not so much
_All the Real Girls_; one has a kid who wants to be
the president of the United States, the other seems so
much more mundane. The thing I like best about
David Gordon Green is that he seems to be completely
without (above?) cynicism. This comes across both in
his films and in interviews (where he uses words like
"ambition" and "greatness" as if they are the most natural
thing to say in the world). It is such a rare quality,
especially in cinema. I heard his next film will be
a big studio production -- hope he fares well there.
Suttree
2099
From:
Date: Sat Sep 27, 2003 3:23pm
Subject: Re: Lost in translation
Like Bill and Ruy, I also found much to like in "Lost in Translation." I
loved the way Coppola defined her characters' relationship in terms of place: it
seems to me unlikely that these characters would have formed a bond, even
under similar circumstances, had they met in Los Angeles or New York. Their
inability to connect with everyone around them or to even >understand< anyone
around them (a theme summarized by that hilarious scene where Murray imitates the
man in the hospital who draws a circle in the air) forced them together - which
is why they must inevitably part at the end. Yes, these characters'
loneliness goes deeper than merely being in a foreign country (i.e., Murray's
disconnect from his wife; Scarlett's disconnect from her husband), but I think that
placing them in an alien enviroment is what made a few days of connection
between them possible. Quite sad when you think about it.
Now to Bill's question:
>I mentioned, without listing any, "60s and 70s films
>where two characters come together out of a shared sense of
>isolation that is transformed into love, then separate at the end
>for reasons not explained." How many can the group name?
Hmm... though it doesn't precisely match the criteria you name, for some
reason I'm thinking of Richard Lester's "Petulia." Anyone else?
Peter
http://hometown.aol.com/ptonguette/index.html
2100
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Sep 27, 2003 7:33pm
Subject: Re: Lost in translation
"My Night at Maud's" doesn't quite fit that
definition, but it does feature an intense flirtation
between two people from different worlds.
--- ptonguette@a... wrote:
> Like Bill and Ruy, I also found much to like in
> "Lost in Translation." I
> loved the way Coppola defined her characters'
> relationship in terms of place: it
> seems to me unlikely that these characters would
> have formed a bond, even
> under similar circumstances, had they met in Los
> Angeles or New York. Their
> inability to connect with everyone around them or to
> even >understand< anyone
> around them (a theme summarized by that hilarious
> scene where Murray imitates the
> man in the hospital who draws a circle in the air)
> forced them together - which
> is why they must inevitably part at the end. Yes,
> these characters'
> loneliness goes deeper than merely being in a
> foreign country (i.e., Murray's
> disconnect from his wife; Scarlett's disconnect from
> her husband), but I think that
> placing them in an alien enviroment is what made a
> few days of connection
> between them possible. Quite sad when you think
> about it.
>
> Now to Bill's question:
>
> >I mentioned, without listing any, "60s and 70s
> films
> >where two characters come together out of a shared
> sense of
> >isolation that is transformed into love, then
> separate at the end
> >for reasons not explained." How many can the group
> name?
>
> Hmm... though it doesn't precisely match the
> criteria you name, for some
> reason I'm thinking of Richard Lester's "Petulia."
> Anyone else?
>
> Peter
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/ptonguette/index.html
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