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2401
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Oct 9, 2003 1:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: Breer, Dukakis
href="http://ehrensteinland.com/htmls/g007/maryworonov.html"
target="_blank">Mary Woronov
--- George Robinson wrote:
> Speaking of "Chelsea Girls," Mary Woronov could be
> on the list. Hey, she's a
> star in my heart.
> g
>
> One night, as he walked past the home of a
> shoemaker, Rabbi Salanter noticed
> that despite the late hour, the man was still
> working by the light of a
> dying candle. "Why are you still working," he asked.
> "It is very late and
> soon that candle will go out." The shoemaker
> replied, "As long as the candle
> is still burning, it is still possible to accomplish
> and to mend." Salanter
> spent that entire night excitedly pacing his room
> and repeating to himself:
> "As long as the candle is still burning, it is still
> possible to accomplish
> and to mend."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hotlove666"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 12:44 AM
> Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Breer, Dukakis
>
>
> > Not a film, really, but my boss for a year when I
> worked at Fox was
> > Susan Pile, who was in Chelsea Girls. Later she
> was my unit publicist
> > on It's All True.
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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2402
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Oct 9, 2003 1:22pm
Subject: Re: Re: Breer, Dukakis
href="http://ehrensteinland.com/htmls/g012/susanpile.html"
target="_blank">Susan Pile
--- hotlove666 wrote:
> Not a film, really, but my boss for a year when I
> worked at Fox was
> Susan Pile, who was in Chelsea Girls. Later she was
> my unit publicist
> on It's All True.
>
>
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2403
From: Zach Campbell
Date: Thu Oct 9, 2003 2:51pm
Subject: Re: Rappaport, ROUGE
Adrian, good to find another Rappaport fan. I don't know if THE
SCENIC ROUTE is available at my video store, unfortunately. I think
it used to be, but I haven't seen it around for months now. I'll
probably tackle LOCAL COLOR or his short films next. If only there
were a traveling retrospective.
Anxiously awaiting Rouge's update ...
--Zach
2404
From:
Date: Thu Oct 9, 2003 4:24pm
Subject: Re: Degrees of heterosexuals in films
All -
We're forgetting to taxonomize that most elusive of cinematic creatures, the
heterosexual.
Some heterosexuals have sex (HS):
Buster Keaton and Kathryn McGuire in Sherlock Jr. (1924)
Bette Davis and Paul Henreid in Now, Voyager (1942)
Joan Fontaine and Louis Jordan in Letter From An Unknown Woman (1948)
Ewan McGregor and ? in Trainspotting (1996)
Caroline Ducey and the HOT Sagamore Stévenin in Romance (1999)
Some don't (DHS):
Priscilla Lane and Robert Cummings in Saboteur (1942)
Judy Garland and Tom Drake in Meet Me In St. Louis (1944)
Stan Brakhage in Dog Star Man (1961-4)
Joan Crawford in Whatever Happened To Baby Jane? (1962)
Denzel Washington in John Q (2002)
Some are part of families (POF):
Victor Moore and Beulah Bondi in Make Way For Tomorrow (1937)
John Wayne and Maureen O'Hara in Rio Grande (1950)
Joel McCrea and Ellen Drew in Stars in My Crown (1950)
David Arquette and Kari Wuhrer in Eight Legged Freaks (2002)
Mel Gibson in Signs (2002)
Colin Hanks in Orange County (2002)
Some aren't (NPOF):
James Stewart in Bend of the River (1952)
Delphine Seyrig and Giorgio Albertazzi in Last Year at Marienbad (1961)
Vince Vaughn in Clay Pigeons (1998)
There are tons more categories; heterosexuals are a diverse group. It's
important to note, however, that some consider Sunrise (1927) and L'Atalante (1934)
the absolute pinnacles of heterosexual cinema but I much prefer Lonesome
(1928). And here is my vote for the ten greatest heterosexual films of all-time:
1. Some Call It Loving (James B. Harris, 1973) - So powerful a heterosexual
film that it can withstand some lesbian scenes.
2. The Hart of London (Jack Chambers, 1969-'70) - Mainly for that
heterosexual family sequence at the end, the Chambers themselves, I believe.
3. Imitation of Life (Douglas Sirk, 1959) - Lana Turner was a well-known
heterosexual and played one with utter conviction in this film.
4. Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles (Chantal Akerman,
1975) - Delphine Seyrig could play a heterosexual just as well as she could a
lesbian (Daughters of Darkness).
5. Angel Face (Otto Preminger, 1953) - Three of these films star Robert
Mitchum - the greatest heterosexual actor of them all?
6. Flowers of Shanghai (Hou Hsiao-Hsien, 1998) - A fascinating,
unrecouperable portrait of a heterosexual institution.
7. The Night of the Hunter (Charles Laughton, 1955) - See #5.
8. Track of the Cat (William Wellman, 1954) - See #5.
9. Singin' in the Rain (Stanley Donen/Gene Kelly, 1952) - Does anyone know if
Betty Noyes was a heterosexual?
10. Red Line 7000 (Howard Hawks, 1965) - A heterosexual film teetering
itchily on the edge of the sexual revolution.
Kevin John Bozelka
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2405
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Oct 9, 2003 9:35pm
Subject: Re: Degrees of heterosexuals in films
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:
> All -
>
> We're forgetting to taxonomize that most elusive of cinematic
creatures, the
> heterosexual.
>
>
> Some heterosexuals have sex (HS):
> Buster Keaton and Kathryn McGuire in Sherlock Jr. (1924)
* They do not have sex, although they may (or may not)in an extra-
diegetic future. The film they are watching at the end and which
Buster uses as a romance primer has him flustered (the film's final
sly gag)when the couple on screen is shown married and surrounded by
children.
JPC
> Bette Davis and Paul Henreid in Now, Voyager (1942)
> Joan Fontaine and Louis Jordan in Letter From An Unknown Woman
(1948)
> Ewan McGregor and ? in Trainspotting (1996)
> Caroline Ducey and the HOT Sagamore Stévenin in Romance (1999)
>
> Some don't (DHS):
*But some may (and will) have sex in the post-diegetic future
> Priscilla Lane and Robert Cummings in Saboteur (1942)
> Judy Garland and Tom Drake in Meet Me In St. Louis (1944)
> Stan Brakhage in Dog Star Man (1961-4)
> Joan Crawford in Whatever Happened To Baby Jane? (1962)
> Denzel Washington in John Q (2002)
>
> Some are part of families (POF):
> Victor Moore and Beulah Bondi in Make Way For Tomorrow (1937)
> John Wayne and Maureen O'Hara in Rio Grande (1950)
> Joel McCrea and Ellen Drew in Stars in My Crown (1950)
> David Arquette and Kari Wuhrer in Eight Legged Freaks (2002)
> Mel Gibson in Signs (2002)
> Colin Hanks in Orange County (2002)
>
> Some aren't (NPOF):
> James Stewart in Bend of the River (1952)
> Delphine Seyrig and Giorgio Albertazzi in Last Year at Marienbad
(1961)
> Vince Vaughn in Clay Pigeons (1998)
>
> There are tons more categories; heterosexuals are a diverse group.
It's
> important to note, however, that some consider Sunrise (1927) and
L'Atalante (1934)
> the absolute pinnacles of heterosexual cinema but I much prefer
Lonesome
> (1928). And here is my vote for the ten greatest heterosexual films
of all-time:
> 1. Some Call It Loving (James B. Harris, 1973) - So powerful a
heterosexual
> film that it can withstand some lesbian scenes.
> 2. The Hart of London (Jack Chambers, 1969-'70) - Mainly for that
> heterosexual family sequence at the end, the Chambers themselves, I
believe.
> 3. Imitation of Life (Douglas Sirk, 1959) - Lana Turner was a well-
known
> heterosexual and played one with utter conviction in this film.
> 4. Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles (Chantal
Akerman,
> 1975) - Delphine Seyrig could play a heterosexual just as well as
she could a
> lesbian (Daughters of Darkness).
*She's more fun as a Lesbian, though (not that I don't find Jeanne
Dielman fascinating)
> 5. Angel Face (Otto Preminger, 1953) - Three of these films star
Robert
> Mitchum - the greatest heterosexual actor of them all?
> 6. Flowers of Shanghai (Hou Hsiao-Hsien, 1998) - A fascinating,
> unrecouperable portrait of a heterosexual institution.
> 7. The Night of the Hunter (Charles Laughton, 1955) - See #5.
> 8. Track of the Cat (William Wellman, 1954) - See #5.
> 9. Singin' in the Rain (Stanley Donen/Gene Kelly, 1952) -
Is Cosmo Brown heterosexual? He is seen briefly hitting on a
girl ("I could get you into the movies...") but maybe it was a cover.
Does anyone know if
> Betty Noyes was a heterosexual?
> 10. Red Line 7000 (Howard Hawks, 1965) - A heterosexual film
teetering
> itchily on the edge of the sexual revolution.
>
*Too itchily for my taste.
> Kevin John Bozelka
*But I agree: it's time the heterosexual came out of the closet --
with pride.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2406
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Oct 9, 2003 11:53pm
Subject: Re: Degrees of heterosexuality in films
Brilliant post, Kevin - it makes several important points.
Outstanding!
2407
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 0:05am
Subject: Re: Degrees of heterosexuals in films
"It's
important to note, however, that some consider Sunrise
(1927) and L'Atalante (1934)
the absolute pinnacles of heterosexual cinema "
And both Murnau and Vigo were gay.
"Delphine Seyrig could play a heterosexual
just as well as she could a lesbian."
True, though she went exclusively lesbian in her final
years. Chantal Ackerman is very agressively Bi.
"The Night of the Hunter (Charles Laughton, 1955)"
Gay!
--- LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:
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2408
From: Eric Henderson
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:00am
Subject: Re: Degrees of heterosexuals in films
> "The Night of the Hunter (Charles Laughton, 1955)"
>
> Gay!
You know, I sort of got that vibe from the film when I first saw it,
as well. But other than director Laughton being gay, I couldn't
really come up with any particular example of how the film seems
skewed on the movie Kinsey scale. I'd love to read your thoughts on
what, exactly, makes this film gay.
2409
From: Rick Segreda
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:41am
Subject: Asian movies
I just came out of a screening of Jang Sun-Woo's "Resurrection of the Little Match Girl" at the Vancouver International Film Festival. It is a pretty dazzling movie, both technically and themetatically. Here's a synopsis of this wild film courtesy of the website, though it doesn't quite do justice to the exuberant nihilism of the movie's twists and turns.
"Ju delivers food for a Chinese restaurant and dreams of becoming a videogame champ like his friend Yi. His life is grungy and unfulfilled. One night he starts playing 'Resurrection of the Little Match Girl'--or maybe he just dreams it, lured by the yellow butterfly he glimpsed reflected in his coffee. (The reference, as in Jia Zhangke's Unknown Pleasures, is to the Taoist sage's Zhuangzi's dream of himself as a butterfly.) The object of the game is to make sure that the forlorn heroine freezes to death on the mean streets--as per Hans Christian Andersen's story--but with your image in her heart, which entails saving her from assorted customers and predators. But there are bugs or viruses in play: Ju almost immediately loses his game ID and his ammo, while the Match Girl goes AWOL and starts taking her defence into her own hands..."
One of the reasons I go to film festivals is that it is virtually the only place I get to see cutting-edge, creative movies from Asia...I could complain, but maybe I could think positively. Perhaps it is only a matter of time, maybe in less than a decade, when all sorts of movies will be readily available on the Internet and we will no longer have any more excuses for not having seen anything.
Eric Henderson wrote:> "The Night of the Hunter (Charles Laughton, 1955)"
>
> Gay!
You know, I sort of got that vibe from the film when I first saw it,
as well. But other than director Laughton being gay, I couldn't
really come up with any particular example of how the film seems
skewed on the movie Kinsey scale. I'd love to read your thoughts on
what, exactly, makes this film gay.
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2410
From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:25am
Subject: Re: Chinese Underground Film Festival
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Nolan wrote:
> UC San Diego is having a 3 day showing of Chinese Underground films.
> Anybody have any comments on any of the following films?
> Unknown Pleasures (Fiction) / Jia Zhangke
A post by Rick Segreda mentioning UNKNOWN PLEASURES has reminded me that I'd meant to reply to the above if no one else, hopefully more expert, did. Jia Zhangke (XIAO WU, PLATFORM) is one of today's known greats. This, his third film, shot on DV, disappointed me a bit, but that's a minority view, and in any case I'm ready to see it again.
> Bumming in Beijing: The Last Dreamers (Documentary) / Wu Wenguang
>
> At Home in the World (Documentary)/ Wu Wenguang
There's an article by Berenice Reynaud in the new Senses of Cinema which discusses these films and perhaps others in the series:
http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/03/28/chinas_new_documentary.html
2411
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:26am
Subject: Re: Asian movies
> You know, I sort of got that vibe from the film when
> I first saw it,
> as well. But other than director Laughton being gay,
> I couldn't
> really come up with any particular example of how
> the film seems
> skewed on the movie Kinsey scale. I'd love to read
> your thoughts on
> what, exactly, makes this film gay.
Among MANY other things, "The Night of the Hunter" is
a savage critique of heterosexual male privilege.
The most powerful figure in it is. . .an old woman.
Laughton NEVER makes John's "masculinity" (in quotes
because "being a man" is always culturally
exaggerated) into an issue. He's reasonably brave and
survives. That's what's important to Laughton.
I don't think a straight director could have framed
Mitchum quite so critically.
--- Rick Segreda wrote:
2412
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:31am
Subject: Night of the Hunter
as well. But other than director Laughton being gay, I couldn't
really come up with any particular example of how the film seems
skewed on the movie Kinsey scale. I'd love to read your thoughts on
what, exactly, makes this film gay.>
I think David just meant that the director was gay. The film is more
complex than that. I don't know if you saw the three-hour film UCLA
put together from the outtakes, where you can hear Laughton directing
before, during and after each take. There's really very little new
information in it (to me it's a masterpiece of avant-garde
filmmaking, which is something else), but there is one scene where
Laughton is very hard on Winters - his acting pupil before he cast
her. It's the wedding night. He changed the set-up planned in the
script (something he didn't do that often) so that he could be
Mitchum when he is laying into her about sex, and about marriage
being just for the begetting of children, which they aren't going to
be doing.
It is one of those classical mean director moments, whereas all
acounts indicate that he was a pussycat on the set - when he was
directing, at any rate. Moreover, her reaction to this sudden blast
of orneriness didn't even make it into the film - it's a one-second
shot where no emotion registers on her face. So why did he do it?
(His fury in this outtake is also an interesting contrast to
something he says to her from off-screen when she is about to
announce the engagement and he's being sweet: "Go on, tell everyone -
you're already thinking about the baby shower.")
The biggest revelation in Preston Neal Jones' oral history Heaven and
Hell to Play With: The Filming of Night of the Hunter (which I would
add to my recommended book list if you're really into this movie) is
something Laughton confided to a friend, the actor William Phipps,
which Phipps passed on to Jones: He said that the first years of the
marriage were wonderful, including great sex, and that what ended the
good years was not Lanchester's discovery that he was having affairs
with men - as she says in the Higham bio - it was the fact the she
was dead set against having children, and he desperately wanted them.
True? False? He said? She said? What matters is that that's what
Laughton believed, because for one thing it explains the otherwise
pointless acting-out against Winters in that outtake. I think it also
helps us understand the Great Divide in the film, which is between
people who are fruitless and asexual (Uncle Birdie, Icy Spoon and
Walt Spoon, Harry Powell); Willa Harper, who is very sexual and the
mother of two, but out of place in the Puritanical community where
she lives; and Rachel Cooper (Gish), who has had children of her own,
who understands Ruby's sexual yearnings, who collects and raises the
unwanted (illegitimate) offspring of other Rubies, and who pays for
her whole operation selling butter and eggs in town. Her farm is a
domain of fertility - one other change Laughton made in his carefully
preplanned film during production was adding the image of flowers
scattering their pollen to the other images of the children's night
voyage, symbolizing the fruitfulness of the new world they are going
toward.
Rachel recites the lines at the beginning about "by their fruits ye
shall know them," and Laughton gives the quote another meaning by
opposing the sterility of the town, which is a hotbed of good old
American proto-fascism and hysterical Puritanism (McCarthyism at the
time), to the fruitfulness of Rachel's farm. It's too bad that Simon
Callow read a draft of Jones' book and wrote his very good BFI book
on the film (also recommended) before Jones got that tidbit from
Phipps, and another, where Laughton confided to Phipps that "art is a
consolation for not having children." I'd love to know what Simon
thought of that when he finally read it. (A third, strong
recommendation: Charles Laughton - A Difficult Actor, by Simon
Callow.)
2413
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:01am
Subject: Re: Night of the Hunter
"He said that the first years of the
marriage were wonderful, including great sex, and that
what ended the
good years was not Lanchester's discovery that he was
having affairs
with men - as she says in the Higham bio - it was the
fact the she
was dead set against having children, and he
desperately wanted them."
He may have SAID that, but I don't believe it for a
minute.
OR that he had a sexual life with her.
It was a classic "Triumph of the Will & Grace"
relationship.
One of the biggest, yet least-discussed, cultural
phenomenon is straight women who want gay men.
And only gay men.
Laughton thought himself ugly and unloveable. He was,
purely conventional terms, ugly. But he was greatly
loved -- something he could never convince himself of.
Lancaster played his insecurities like a Hammond
organ. But before his health gave out he'd
periodically escape her clutches and hide out at
Isherwood and Bachardy's -- vowing never to return to
her again. Had he found a boyfriend who genuinely
wanted to stay with him he might well have made the
break -- and Hollywood history would have been
rewritten.
But old habits die hard -- and old fag-hags die
harder.
--- hotlove666 wrote:
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2414
From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:12am
Subject: Re: Degrees of heterosexuals in films
David Ehrenstein:
> And both Murnau and Vigo were gay.
For the record Jean Vigo was not gay.
Gabe
2415
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:20am
Subject: Re: Re: Degrees of heterosexuals in films
For the record, Vito Russo says he was.
--- Gabe Klinger wrote:
> David Ehrenstein:
>
> > And both Murnau and Vigo were gay.
>
> For the record Jean Vigo was not gay.
>
> Gabe
>
>
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2416
From: Robert Keser
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:30am
Subject: Re: Chinese Underground Film Festival
I can also testify that UNKNOWN PLEASURES is ultimately a
disappointment, but it's still worth seeing as a credible and
sometimes compelling picture of life in a dead-end, nowhere-to-run
provincial city. Jia shows the various traps that make escape
impossible for young people, and puts all this in Asian long takes
while all the characters smoke record numbers of cigarettes. (Jia's
PLATFORM was more satisfying because it had as its central structural
component the deterioration of a political theatre shock-troop from
propagandistic Maoist kitsch into a sleazy disco act).
--Robert Keser
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Nolan wrote:
>
> > UC San Diego is having a 3 day showing of Chinese Underground
films.
> > Anybody have any comments on any of the following films?
> > Unknown Pleasures (Fiction) / Jia Zhangke
>
> A post by Rick Segreda mentioning UNKNOWN PLEASURES has reminded me
that I'd meant to reply to the above if no one else, hopefully more
expert, did. Jia Zhangke (XIAO WU, PLATFORM) is one of today's known
greats. This, his third film, shot on DV, disappointed me a bit, but
that's a minority view, and in any case I'm ready to see it again.
>
2417
From: jaketwilson
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:07am
Subject: Re: Degrees of heterosexuals in films
David Ehrenstein wrote:
> For the record, Vito Russo says he was.
>
> --- Gabe Klinger wrote:
> > David Ehrenstein:
> >
> > > And both Murnau and Vigo were gay.
> >
> > For the record Jean Vigo was not gay.
He was married. Isn't it at least possible he was bisexual?
Speaking of taboos, male bisexuality is still an under-explored topic
in movies. There are many instances where pigeonholing a character or
a filmmaker as exclusively gay can leave out part of the story.
(Bi male films, off the top of my head: GILDA, SAVAGE NIGHTS, DOG DAY
AFTERNOON, CABARET, TEORAMA, THOSE WHO LOVE ME CAN TAKE THE TRAIN,
Ozon's A SUMMER'S DRESS, some Gregg Araki.)
JTW
2418
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:53am
Subject: so....Anger
I have liked all three Kenneth Anger films that I've seen so far:
SCORPIO RISING, FIREWORKS, and EAUX D'ARTIFICE, the latter two of
which I watched this evening in my a-g history course (at NYU).
Regrettably, due to the length of the class (two hundred forty
minutes, seventy or eighty of which was spent on Brakhage's early
years), the necessity for detailed introductions and discussions, and
the length of the work (thirty-eight minutes), our instructor only
showed us a brief clip of INAUGURATION OF THE PLEASURE DOME.
But the clip was so fucking awesome, I don't know what all.
Seen in full, provided that it is it will probably be my "switch"
film for Anger. A switch film is my term for a film that turns on
the light inside my head regarding a filmmaker that I've enjoyed, or
not, in the past, but never quite Loved. Recent switch films include
TWO WEEKS IN ANOTHER TOWN (Minnelli), LATE AUTUMN (Ozu), or in the
case of new films, HULK (Lee) and THE HUNTED (Friedkin). Please stop
laughing, it's not nice.
Let us relate some Anger thoughts! KA is an A-lister on Fred's site
and he is generally beloved. (I mean Anger, but I suppose Fred is
generally beloved, too, by children and everybody.) A friend of mine
has listed PUCE MOMENT as his favorite film of all time - regrettably
(there are a lot of regrettably's in this class, chief among them is
the Clement Greenberg "essay" on a-g and kitsch) that film was on the
schedule but cut for time. I will not rest, etc.
2419
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:56am
Subject: Re: so....Anger
> Seen in full, provided that it is it will
Meant to finish that sentence. Was going to say, in so many words,
if the rest of the film is as awesome as the clip (which was six or
seven minutes, so a good healthy portion at least), and so on re: the
remarks about "switch" films.
-Jaime
2420
From: J. Mabe
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 6:18am
Subject: Re: so....Anger
The very first program I saw at the Anthology Film
Archives (now my favorite place on earth to view film)
was a presentation of Anger’s films. I was 16 or 17
at the time and the corner of 2nd and 2nd sounds like
a dangerous place for someone on vacation from South
Carolina, so my father walked me there (thankfully, he
did not go in and watch). I had seen video bootlegs
of the films before, but seeing Fireworks and Rabbit's
Moon on film were definite “switch films” for me.
Speaking of Kenneth Anger, did anyone “get” or even
“like” Anger’s Man We Want to Hang, which was really
the low point of last year’s Views from the Avant
Garde for me (maybe I had great hopes for a new Anger
film... I don’t know).
Josh Mabe
--- "Jaime N. Christley"
wrote:
> I have liked all three Kenneth Anger films that I've
> seen so far:
> SCORPIO RISING, FIREWORKS, and EAUX D'ARTIFICE, the
> latter two of
> which I watched this evening in my a-g history
> course (at NYU).
> Regrettably, due to the length of the class (two
> hundred forty
> minutes, seventy or eighty of which was spent on
> Brakhage's early
> years), the necessity for detailed introductions and
> discussions, and
> the length of the work (thirty-eight minutes), our
> instructor only
> showed us a brief clip of INAUGURATION OF THE
> PLEASURE DOME.
>
> But the clip was so fucking awesome, I don't know
> what all.
>
> Seen in full, provided that it is it will probably
> be my "switch"
> film for Anger. A switch film is my term for a film
> that turns on
> the light inside my head regarding a filmmaker that
> I've enjoyed, or
> not, in the past, but never quite Loved. Recent
> switch films include
> TWO WEEKS IN ANOTHER TOWN (Minnelli), LATE AUTUMN
> (Ozu), or in the
> case of new films, HULK (Lee) and THE HUNTED
> (Friedkin). Please stop
> laughing, it's not nice.
>
> Let us relate some Anger thoughts! KA is an
> A-lister on Fred's site
> and he is generally beloved. (I mean Anger, but I
> suppose Fred is
> generally beloved, too, by children and everybody.)
> A friend of mine
> has listed PUCE MOMENT as his favorite film of all
> time - regrettably
> (there are a lot of regrettably's in this class,
> chief among them is
> the Clement Greenberg "essay" on a-g and kitsch)
> that film was on the
> schedule but cut for time. I will not rest, etc.
>
>
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2421
From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:53am
Subject: Re: Degrees of heterosexuals in films
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jaketwilson" wrote:
> > > For the record Jean Vigo was not gay.
>
> He was married. Isn't it at least possible he was bisexual?
I didn't mean for my comment to be final... But I wouldn't put Vigo in the same
camp with Murnau. When I read David's post, I thought, "Well, he was married
and he did have a daughter, Luce..."
It's also probably fair to say that Vigo was following his social milieu whereas
Murnau's sexuality was truly ambiguous to the eyes of the outside public.
>(Bi male films, off the top of my head: GILDA, SAVAGE NIGHTS, DOG DAY
>AFTERNOON, CABARET, TEORAMA, THOSE WHO LOVE ME CAN TAKE
>THE TRAIN,
>Ozon's A SUMMER'S DRESS, some Gregg Araki.)
Would PSYCHO qualify as bi-sexual? (something-sexual?...)
2422
From: Fred Camper
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 0:41pm
Subject: Re: Re: Degrees of heterosexuals in films
I would have thought it obvious by now (perhaps I should say "obvious bi
now") that not all human sexuality can be grouped into one of two
categories, "gay" and "straight." I don't even think adding "bi" covers
all the ground. How do you categorize, for example, someone (and I've
known a couple of these) who lives and acts straight at one time in
their lives and lives and acts gay at another?
This is not to say that the sexual orientation of a filmmaker isn't of
potential significance. Certainly their are times when avoiding mention
of it can seem short sighted. To choose filmmakers recently mentioned
here, I don't think one could have a full discussion of Anger or
Markopoulos without mentioning the "g-word" (or "h-word" or "q-word" or
whichever you prefer -- Markopoulos didn't like "gay"), and though I've
written reams on Brakhage without much mention of his heterosexuality,
that's probably short-sighted of me as well. Certainly a future Brakhage
biographer is going to have two wives and many girlfriends to talk to.
- Fred
2423
From:
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:36am
Subject: Re: Re: Degrees of heterosexuals in films
In a message dated 10/10/03 8:45:24 AM, f@f... writes:
> I would have thought it obvious by now (perhaps I should say "obvious bi
> now") that not all human sexuality can be grouped into one of two
> categories, "gay" and "straight."
>
Just to cover my ass here, I hope that the quasi-tongue in cheek quality of
my post was obvious. If it sounds silly to make distinctions between
heterosexuals, it should sound equally silly to make distinctions between cross dressers
and transvestites. And lest I be grotesquely misappropriated, I want to state
that I think it's about time that the heterosexual came out of the closet as
an object of obsessive inquiry and taxonomy. Certainly, that work has already
started (mostly by queer minds) but I think that the making strange of
heterosexuality could move beyond tongue in cheekiness to help erode rigid binaries
like gay/straight and whatnot. See Griselda Pollock's classic "What's Wrong
With Images of Women?" for more wisdom.
Also, I stand corrected on Sherlock Jr.
And thanx Bill (I think it was Bill) for the kind comments.
Kevin John Bozelka
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2424
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: Degrees of heterosexuals in films
"I've
written reams on Brakhage without much mention of his
heterosexuality,
that's probably short-sighted of me as well. Certainly
a future Brakhage
biographer is going to have two wives and many
girlfriends to talk to."
And don't forget his (youthful) same-sex experiences,
Fred -- which he alludes to in "Metaphors On Vision"
and mark one or two of his very earliest films.
--- Fred Camper wrote:
> I would have thought it obvious by now (perhaps I
> should say "obvious bi
> now") that not all human sexuality can be grouped
> into one of two
> categories, "gay" and "straight." I don't even think
> adding "bi" covers
> all the ground. How do you categorize, for example,
> someone (and I've
> known a couple of these) who lives and acts straight
> at one time in
> their lives and lives and acts gay at another?
>
> This is not to say that the sexual orientation of a
> filmmaker isn't of
> potential significance. Certainly their are times
> when avoiding mention
> of it can seem short sighted. To choose filmmakers
> recently mentioned
> here, I don't think one could have a full discussion
> of Anger or
> Markopoulos without mentioning the "g-word" (or
> "h-word" or "q-word" or
> whichever you prefer -- Markopoulos didn't like
> "gay"), and though I've
> written reams on Brakhage without much mention of
> his heterosexuality,
> that's probably short-sighted of me as well.
> Certainly a future Brakhage
> biographer is going to have two wives and many
> girlfriends to talk to.
>
> - Fred
>
>
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2425
From: Fred Camper
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: Degrees of heterosexuals in films
LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:
>....I think that the making strange of heterosexuality could move beyond tongue in cheekiness to help erode rigid binaries ....
>
Kevin, I wasn't responding to your post at all, which like Bill I
thought funny and wise and making a good point; I was responding rather
to the little "was Vigo gay or straight" debate. I agree with your point
about "studying" heterosexuality, which is why I added the topic of
Brakhage. However, much as I applaud those who would do such studies,
I'm not sure I want take time to read the forthcoming book on why so
many men who like vaginas also drink beer while watching the game. I
didn't read that book about why gay men like opera written by the guy
who wrote the book on why Jackie O is so fabulous either. But perhaps
that's just my limited interests making themselvees apparent here.
- Fred
2426
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:12pm
Subject: Re: Re: Degrees of heterosexuals in films
>(Bi male films, off the top of my head: GILDA, SAVAGE
NIGHTS, DOG DAY
>AFTERNOON, CABARET, TEORAMA, THOSE WHO LOVE ME CAN
TAKE
>THE TRAIN,
>Ozon's A SUMMER'S DRESS, some Gregg Araki.)
"Gilda"? Yep. STILL ahead of its time. "Sabage
Nights"? Definitely -- and tragically.
"Dog Day Afternoon" (I knew the original cast) to some
degree,though that's not really the principal subject.
"Cabaret" uses bisexuality as a sort of closet to
obscure Isherwood's true interests.
"Teorema" is maybe the most subversive in that it
posits a polymorphous-perverse deity.
The character of Thierry (the male nurse and junkie)
is the only bisexual in "Those Who Love Me" -- though
that takes some time for most people to figure out.
"A Summer Dress" is about Kinsey 3. And Araki uses
bisexuality less as a subjec than as mise-en-scene.
"Would PSYCHO qualify as bi-sexual?
(something-sexual?...)"
Transexual.
--- Gabe Klinger wrote:
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2427
From: Patrick Ciccone
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:26pm
Subject: Nathanael West as screenwriter
I just read Nathanael West's great novel(lla)s MISS LONELYHEARTS and
DAY OF THE LOCUST. These are great books, and the latter is (of
course) the definitive negative vision of the Dream Factory and of
Los Angeles. I've never been to LA myself, though...
Anyway, I was wondering if any of the films on which West has
screeningwriting credit are any good and have anything of West in
them. Especially intriguing is GANGS OF NEW YORK, directed by James
Cruze, writers Nathanael West and Samuel Fuller (!). The directors
on most of these projects don't look too major:
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0922264/
Was 1930s Hollywood the emigre capital of people from inside the US
as well?
PWC
2428
From: Zach Campbell
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:29pm
Subject: Re: so....Anger
Jaime:
> (there are a lot of regrettably's in this class, chief among them
> is the Clement Greenberg "essay" on a-g and kitsch)
Ouch, low blow, low blow! Given the historical context, Greenberg's
essay seems pretty cogent to me. What don't you like about it?
--Zach
2429
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:00pm
Subject: Re: so....Greenberg
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Zach Campbell"
wrote:
> Jaime:
> > (there are a lot of regrettably's in this class, chief among them
> > is the Clement Greenberg "essay" on a-g and kitsch)
>
> Ouch, low blow, low blow! Given the historical context,
Greenberg's
> essay seems pretty cogent to me. What don't you like about it?
>
> --Zach
I wasn't prepared to discuss it in any detail, sorry, it was just an
aside. I don't doubt the 'landmark' status of the essay, I guess I
just find the author's arrogance unenlightening, and his hostility
towards kitsch irritating. I wonder if I find it more difficult than
others to view a piece like this in an appropriate context, in order
to find significant value in it.
But really, what I wish is that I hadn't made that aside. Kenneth
Anger is who I wanted to provoke people to talk about.
-Jaime
2430
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:25pm
Subject: Re: Nathanael West as screenwriter
"Five Came Back" is quite good. But West never managed
to get anywhere near the big-time in his screenwriting
career.
--- Patrick Ciccone wrote:
> I just read Nathanael West's great novel(lla)s MISS
> LONELYHEARTS and
> DAY OF THE LOCUST. These are great books, and the
> latter is (of
> course) the definitive negative vision of the Dream
> Factory and of
> Los Angeles. I've never been to LA myself,
> though...
>
> Anyway, I was wondering if any of the films on which
> West has
> screeningwriting credit are any good and have
> anything of West in
> them. Especially intriguing is GANGS OF NEW YORK,
> directed by James
> Cruze, writers Nathanael West and Samuel Fuller (!).
> The directors
> on most of these projects don't look too major:
>
> http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0922264/
>
> Was 1930s Hollywood the emigre capital of people
> from inside the US
> as well?
>
> PWC
>
>
>
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2431
From: Fred Camper
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: so....Anger
Well, let's unite the threads: here's a story about Anger and kitsch
that I found illuminating at the time, and still do.
It was October of 1986, Turin, Italy, where a film festival had mounted
a retrospective of American avant-garde film of the 1960s. The panel
discussion at the end of that series had on it many of the filmmakers
whose work had been shown at the festival -- Ernie Gehr, Gregory J.
Markopoulos, Kenneth Anger, and Ken Jacobs among them. Jacobs explained
that his filmmaking was in part a response to the drabness of the
conformist 1950s. Anger, who said very little on the panel, spoke up
with some enthusiasm, stating that he strongly disagreed and talking
about how for him the "vivacity" of American pop culture of the 1950s
was inspiring. He mentioned Marilyn Monroe and Elvis Presley.
I think both positions are right for their respective filmmakers, just
as Greenberg's position may be of use in illuminating some abstract
painting, and a whole way of thinking about modernism (there's a passage
in one of those two early long essays, if not "Avant-Garde and Kitsch"
then the one that followed, that beautifully articulates my interest in
an "active viewer"), but of negative use if you utilize it to reject pop
art.
More about Greenberg and the New York University Department of Cinema
Studies: he was at times very stupidly applied to film when I was there,
and I wonder if this is still true. Peter Kubelka's "Arnulf Rainer" does
many things, and articulating the nature of cinema is only one of them,
and to focus on that is to convert a film of thunderous power into an
academic exercise.
- Fred
2432
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:02pm
Subject: Re: Degrees of heterosexuals in films
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Henderson" wrote:
> > "The Night of the Hunter (Charles Laughton, 1955)"
> >
> > Gay!
>
>
> You know, I sort of got that vibe from the film when I first saw
it,
> as well. But other than director Laughton being gay, I couldn't
> really come up with any particular example of how the film seems
> skewed on the movie Kinsey scale. I'd love to read your thoughts on
> what, exactly, makes this film gay.
You might construe the Mitchum character's hatred of women (as
apparent in his refusal to have sex with his new bride)as a tell-tale
sign of at least latent homosexuality. But then Mitchum is the most
heterosexual of actors according to Eric. Ambiguity reigns supreme.
JPC
2433
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:18pm
Subject: Nightof the Hunter, West
Harry may be a latent homosexual in the book, but as I argued,
Laughton made something more complex and personal out of the sexual
politics of the book when he filmed it. I'll stick to my guns that
fecundity/sterility is the axis he chose to play it on. Also, the
knife opening in Harry's pocket during the burlesque show is at least
an ambiguous symbol not of homosexuality, but of murderous, because
repressed, heterosexuality.
Just before he died West turned in a first draft of a screen
adaptation of Before the Fact, which resides in the Suspicion script
files at UCLA Special Arts Collections. It would have made a very
different film, with Johnnie a killer as in the book. George Schaefer
thought it was "B movie" material, and his feelings about the West
script may have influenced Hitchcock, when he pitched his ideas to J.
R. McDonough a few months later, to commit to taking the film "in
another direction," with Johnnie innocent and Lina a Bovaryesque
fantast.
2434
From:
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:30pm
Subject: Re: Anger
Eaux d'Artifice (1953) was shot in the wonderful Tivoli Gardens outside Rome. Anger uses an excellent photographic technique on the flowing water, one that breaks it up into hundreds of small shining droplets. These recall the similar shining beads of Inauguration, and the shimmering beadlets in the Scarlet Woman's headdress. This film is Anger's most quiet. Its court lady character gives it an aspect of escaping into an elegant world of the past - she is like the characters running through the night in Alexandre Dumas novels, involved with court intrigues. It is also the film of Anger's most purely concerned with abstract patterns, geometric designs in space.
The Inauguration of the Pleasure Dome (1954). A stereotyped view of the Eisenhower era 1950's has built up, that certainly does not include films like this. This avant-garde work combines aspects of the occultist, psychedelic, underground, Sternberg, gay and camp sensibilities, all in one gaudy 38 minute package. It is a beautiful classic, especially notable for its rich use of color. It probably influenced such later films as Paradjanov's The Color of Pomegranates (1969) and Martin Scorsese's Kundun (1997). The shots in Kundun, showing the small deliberate forward steps of the protagonist, recall those of the hero of Anger's film.
The film splits into two parts. The first two thirds introduces the main characters, gorgeously costumed people who seem to be playing the roles of pagan deities in some occult ritual. These scenes are in the Von Sternberg tradition. They offer elaborately clothed people in beautiful images, with unusual costumes, make-up, hair styles and jewelry. There are differences between Anger's and Sternberg's style, of course. One is that this film is in bright color. The intense colors and unusual color combinations are uniquely Anger's, and will reappear in such films as Kustom Kar Kommandos (1965). A second difference is that Anger's characters are not in a narrative, but simply standing around, performing various gestures and poses that vaguely evoke pagan religious rituals. This is in the mythopoeic tradition of underground film, that derives from Jean Cocteau. The whole film is edited to Janacek's "Glagolitic Mass" (1926). Anger once more shows his skill at editing images to music.
Some of the scenes involve film magic and special effects, in the tradition of Cocteau and Maya Deren. A sphere is whirled in and out of the picture frame, getting bigger each time it reappears. A woman's large picture hat slowly flies up, and settles on her head. Curtis Harrington will have Sylvia Kristel wear a similar picture hat, 30 years later in Mata Hari (1985). Harrington acts in this picture, not as a pagan character, but as Cesare the Somnambulist from The Cabinet Of Dr. Caligari (1920), one of his favorite motion pictures. One of the characters' heads appears in a birdcage, perhaps in homage to similar imagery in Sidney Peterson's film, The Cage (1947).
Anger does not promote a uniform sense of space in the picture. Some scenes are acted against full sets, others against a black backdrop. A painted backdrop like something out of a 1900 stage play evokes the films of Méliès - perhaps a homage from the director, who once listed Méliès as one of his heroes.
The last third of the movie erupts into superimposed imagery - sometimes up to 5 multiply exposed images. These scenes show considerable creativity in the use of this technique. Following the rapid succession of double exposures is a fascinating experience. Reportedly, these multiple exposures were extended when Anger reedited the film in 1966. Anger's use of superimposition reminds one of the many creative dissolves in Curtis Harrington's feature films. The superimpositions begin briefly in the first half of the film, in a scene involving a mirror revered image superimposed on itself, rather like a very delicate and beautiful Rorschach ink blot. This reminds one of the finale of Albert Magnoli's video, When Doves Cry (1984).
Mike Grost
2435
From:
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:55pm
Subject: Anger and Sergei Paradjanov
Tsvet granata / The Color of Pomegranates (Sergei Paradjanov, 1969) This splendid film is a meditation on the Armenian poet Aruthin Sayadin (1712 - 1795), known as "Sayat Nova", which means "The King of Song". The film is made directly in the style of Kenneth Anger's Inauguration of the Pleasure Dome (1954). Both films are non narrative works, in a very experimental style. However, their similarities go far beyond this. Let's enumerate them: 1) Both films are mainly composed of a series of fairly short episodes. Each episode mainly features one character, filmed frontally, directly face on. 2) The characters are gorgeously costumed, in non-modern clothes 3) The characters are performing religious rituals, with elaborate hand gestures expressive of ritual, priestly observance. In Anger's film, these are perhaps pagan services invoking "Magick" or perhaps they are made up rituals of an imaginary but spectacular religion. The rituals in Paradjanov's film are deeply and reverently Christian in spirit. The rituals are held against the backdrop of Armenian monasteries, and with rich traditional Armenian art. 4) The characters often have "haloing" effects around their heads, involving elaborate headdresses. Paradjanov also uses actual frames centering on the characters. 5) Both films include a scenes where a character moves a spherical ball around, with a circular motion. In Paradjanov, this comes late in the film, and two young girls each move a ball, guided by an adult. 6) The films include "jump cuts", showing several actions by the same character. The shots are from the same camera angle and point of view, but there is a lapse of time while a new action is started for the new shot. 7) Paradjanov includes many shot of water, juice and other fluids moving downwards and covering things. This recalls the flowing milk in Anger's Fireworks (1947), and the water fountains in Eaux d'Artifice (1953). 8) Occasionally there is stop motion magic, as when as sword appears in Pomegranates. 9) Both films are in brilliant, intense color. 10) Shots in Pomegranates that show Armenian rugs being draped remind one of the fabric shots from Anger's Puce Moment that were edited into Inauguration of the Pleasure Dome.
Paradjanov's work has been highly influential on later filmmakers. One can see his approach in Mohsen Makhmalbaf's Gabbeh (1996) and Martin Scorsese's Kundun (1997). Scorsese's work, like Anger's and Paradjanov's, is concerned with religious rituals and spirituality.
Anger's and Paradjanov's films are always mentioned in film histories, but they have not been widely distributed or screened. They deserve to be part of our living art of film!
Mike Grost
2436
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 6:04pm
Subject: Re: so....Greenberg
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jaime N. Christley"
wrote:
> I wasn't prepared to discuss it in any detail, sorry, it was just
an
> aside. I don't doubt the 'landmark' status of the essay, I guess I
> just find the author's arrogance unenlightening, and his hostility
> towards kitsch irritating. I wonder if I find it more difficult
than
> others to view a piece like this in an appropriate context, in
order
> to find significant value in it.
Andrew Ross' "No Respect: Intellectuals & Popular Culture" is a good
place to start for criticism of the prejudices of Greenberg and
company.
Greenberg's "Avant-Garde and Kitsch" apparently originated
in a letter Greenberg wrote in reply to an article by his friend,
Dwight MacDonald, on Soviet film. MacDonald noted that he thought
the Soviet cinema was popular with Soviet peasants. In a 1984
interview with Diana Trilling, he stated that he had argued that
"primitives" can respond to art: "look at what wonderful things
the Africans do." Greenberg replied that, on the contrary, art
requires intellectual reflection: if the "ignorant Russian peasant"
is given a choice between art and kitsch, he always chooses kitsch.
The reason for this and for the "virulence" of popular culture is,
according to Greenberg, a result of its inherent formal qualities,
in that it contains its own response, in contrast to avant-garde
works, which Greenberg later identified with abstract formalism, and
which purportedly contain only the work's response to itself.
Greenberg links the spread of kitsch to the spread of "barbarism."
He describes fascism as "mass culture," the result of an excess of
democracy, in which "every man, from the Tammany alderman to the
Austrian house-painter, finds that he is entitled to his opinion."
MacDonald in turn took up these ideas, stating that popular
culture contains a "built-in reaction," it does need to be
explained or appreciated, and this accounts for its spread. The
only problem for the intellectual is "how to avoid contamination"
(Louis Kronenberger), how to maintain "hygiene [in the presence of]
these parasites on the body of art" (Irving Howe). Ross links
this fear of popular culture's virulence, "the spreading ooze of Mass
Culture" (MacDonald), to the fear of Communism, egalitarianism, and
feminism, expressed in similar organic metaphors.
I think this is reflected in MacDonald's response to auteurism:
http://wwwmcc.murdoch.edu.au/ReadingRoom/5.2/Routt.html
Someone once mentioned that Sarris never used the term, "kitsch,"
which is emblematic of how he stood apart from the dominant
ideology among New York intellectuals.
Another interesting book is Serge Guilbaut's "How New
York Stole the Idea of Modern Art." I also recommend the chapter
on mass culture theory in "Approaches to Popular Film" (ed. by
Hollows and Jancovich).
Paul
2437
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 6:28pm
Subject: Re: Anger and Paradjanov
Mystery Mike,
Great post, which makes me eager to revisit both filmmakers as
soon as I get done with all my current writing chores. Paul
Schrader and Olivier Assayas are also Anger fans - Schrader
says he carries a copy of Scorpio Rising with him when he's
working, as a touchstone he can look at for inspiration. Olivier
Assayas' short Cahiers "Auteur Series" book on Anger really
should be translated. For fans of OA's films, it is crucial to his
"new phase," starting with Irma Vep; for non-fans, it is a great
piece of Anger criticism, like your note.
I met KA finally at the door to the LA Cinematheque, where we
were both trying get into a sold-out Ray Harryhausen event. He
was with friends,and when he heard that there were no seats he
said he should have called ahead and politely asked to come in
and just show his friends the theatre. The usherette hesitated,
and when I saw that she didn't know who "Kenneth Anger" was, I
told her that he should be on the podium and honored the
building by his presence, and he got his tour. Very nice man, as
far as I could see, but apparently he still gets into beefs witrh
producers. Gary Graver shot a DVD tour of Forrest J. Ackerman's
fantasy film museum/mansion with Anger accompanying
Ackerman and conversing with him. One can hardly imagine a
lower-budget project, but there was producer, and a beef
erupted, and the footage will never get edited.
2438
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 6:33pm
Subject: Kitsch
Speaking of kitsch, has anyone seen Pardjanov's tractor-driver
musical? They showed it at the LA Cinematheque, and it is
GREAT kitsch!
2439
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 6:41pm
Subject: Anger and O
I wonder if anyone knows the following anecdote (it's fairly obscure
but you guys seem to know just about everything). I hope it doesn't
provoke the wrath of Anger devotees.
In the late fifties the French film monthly "Cinema" (where I
published my first articles) put out a gag special issue purporting
to be written 25 or 30 years later and discussing the film scene in
that distant future. One of the articles was a review of a film
version of "Histoire d'O" presented as an ordinary mainstream movie.
Of course we all thought at the time that such a thing would never be
possible, even 25 years later (little did we know...). Well, Anger
wrote an angry letter to the editor stating that he owned the
exclusive rights to Story of O and threatening legal action. He just
didn't get the joke, apparently. Everybody had a good laugh over this
one.
Incidentally, it would be interesting to know how he obtained
those "exclusive rights" and from whom. And what happened to the
footage he shot?
JPC
2440
From: Patrick Ciccone
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 7:30pm
Subject: Re: so....Greenberg
This is a great essay! Certainly one of the best definitions (if it
can be called such) of auteurism I've ever read. It would also be a
useful primer for those who still don't "get" auteurism at all--
though it would be unlikely to win converts, as he says of Rivette's
essay.
PWC
>
> I think this is reflected in MacDonald's response to auteurism:
> http://wwwmcc.murdoch.edu.au/ReadingRoom/5.2/Routt.html
> Someone once mentioned that Sarris never used the term, "kitsch,"
> which is emblematic of how he stood apart from the dominant
> ideology among New York intellectuals.
>
> Another interesting book is Serge Guilbaut's "How New
> York Stole the Idea of Modern Art." I also recommend the chapter
> on mass culture theory in "Approaches to Popular Film" (ed. by
> Hollows and Jancovich).
>
>
> Paul
2441
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 8:03pm
Subject: Re: Re: Degrees of heterosexuals in films
Mitchum's character is sexually impotent,IMO. The gay
stuff in "The Night of the Hunter" is back-storied in
that Miss Harper is doing penance for having rejected
her own son. . .
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Henderson"
> wrote:
> > > "The Night of the Hunter (Charles Laughton,
> 1955)"
> > >
> > > Gay!
> >
> >
> > You know, I sort of got that vibe from the film
> when I first saw
> it,
> > as well. But other than director Laughton being
> gay, I couldn't
> > really come up with any particular example of how
> the film seems
> > skewed on the movie Kinsey scale. I'd love to read
> your thoughts on
> > what, exactly, makes this film gay.
>
> You might construe the Mitchum character's hatred
> of women (as
> apparent in his refusal to have sex with his new
> bride)as a tell-tale
> sign of at least latent homosexuality. But then
> Mitchum is the most
> heterosexual of actors according to Eric. Ambiguity
> reigns supreme.
> JPC
>
>
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2442
From:
Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 8:21pm
Subject: Knowledge
I still have an awful lot to learn!
Have never had a chance to see any films by Markopoulos, for example - hope they will come to Detroit.
And just have seen a few minutes of Breer.
I greatly enjoyed reading Fred Camper's article on Markopoulos in the Chicago Reader.
His films sound very important.
Am learning a great deal from everyone's posts on different film makers.
Mike Grost
2443
From: Fred Camper
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 2:06am
Subject: Re: Auteurism, and Brakhage, in Belo Horizonte + film academia
Filipe,
Though it's off topic, I might as well respond to the last part of your
post first by saying that I love Brazil. There are a couple of different
reasons for this that converge in an interesting way, some kind of
strange connection between the landscape of Rio, Niemeyer's (great!)
architecture, even the food, and other elements of the culture as a
whole, that I can't quite articulate. Today I saw a newly opened exhibit
at Rio's modern museum by a collective called Chelpa Ferro that I liked
a lot, but that also in some kind of way seemed uniquely Brazilian,
though I admit this might be an illusion. But a huge circle of
loudspeakers and mikes that you stand in the middle of which greatly
amplifies and distorts any sound you make seemed was, in its
overwhelming and engulfing quality, quite different from superficially
similar sound pieces I've seen in the U.S.
I actually don't know which Mauro DVDs I got, and I've already sent them
by slow boat to the U.S. to lighten my load. When I've seen a bunch of
Mauros I'll post, if I've got anything interesting to say.
The Omar program (which I gather isn't on the festival's Web site?
Sheesh, you'd think people would get the idea that lists of films shown
is exactly the kind of low-bandwidth information that should stay on the
Web permanently) consisted of: "Congo," Tesouro da Juventude," "Voces,"
"O Som, ou Tratado de Harmonia," "O Inspetor," and "Resssurreição."
(There! This program is now on the Web, and was shown at the 5th Belo
Horizonte International TIM Short Film Festival (5o Festival
Internacional TIM de Curtas-Metragens de Belo Horizonte) in Belo
Horizonte, Brazil ,in September 2003. Or at least, that's what they
claim to have shown on their program; I wasn't keeping track film by
film, so if one was changed or dropped I might not have known.) As I
posted earlier, I liked them, and wish I could see them again.
I was glad to hear that that Sarris issue, our "bible," made it to Brazil.
That professors prefer to show video copies when prints are available is
really outrageous. Are they just too lazy to fuss with a projector? In
my perfect world, such people would be fired from their professor jobs
and sent, Mao-style, to do organic farming in the countryside for five
or ten years and learn the value of honest manual labor, after which
they'll appreciate the work of operating a projector a lot more. Well, I
wouldn't really do that to them, even if I could, but it's a nice
thought. Also, I can tell an analogous story. I curated and spoke on a
program of short avant-garde and other odd films in Los Angeles in 1996.
(It was the "Nature and Cinema" program at
http://www.fredcamper.com/L/Nature.html) There was a critic for an
alternative weekly, the only critic who regularly covered avant-garde
and "alternative" films in LA at the time, who refused to watch the
program because none of the films were available for preview on video!
She could have looked at prints, because they had been sent early, but
she considered that too much trouble.
Finally, about film students and film studies, I think you've noticed
something important, and I say this as someone who came to cinema when
it was taught in almost no colleges, not taken seriously as an art at
all, and if it was taught they would have been teaching Bergman and
Fellini perhaps; most of the films I loved, from Markopoulos and
Brakhage to Sirk and Fuller and even Hitchcock, would have been laughed
at. Anyway, I think you're right that studying film in college can often
affect one, especially the more impressionable among us. Viewing a film
for me was a vital act, an act of passionate engagement, something worth
traveling a few hundred miles for (many times to New York and once to
New Hampshire when I lived in Boston; once to Rochester and once to
Washington when I lived in New York). Most people who study film in
college take it as a class because they need the credits; many take it
because it sounds like an easy course; many graduate students in the
U.S. study film in the hope of getting a teaching job, not necessarily
because they love cinema. There was a time when film teaching jobs were
easier to get than jobs teaching literature, for example, and many
people studied film in order to have some kind of teaching career.
At the same time, it's great to see in our group evidence of a new
generation of genuine film lovers who at least find auteurism a useful
tool and who don't necessarily let themselves be influenced by film
courses they take, even if they think they're pretty good (and I've
heard stories from more than one college student on this list about
scandalously bad film courses too -- in the U.S. and in Brazil).
Autuerism almost by definition requires passion, even if only the
fetishist-collector's passion for completeness, something I don't really
identify with. (Overheard before a screening at the Museum of Modern
Art, New York a few decades ago by a friend of mine, a conversation
between two film buffs that went something like, "I've seen 42 Fords,"
"Well, I've seen 59 Walshes," "Oh, I can't top that.") The academic
study of film has largely removed passion. The goal of most academic
film studies is to produce important and intelligent-sounding articles
and books, and whether they illuminate the deeply engaged and
aesthetically ecstatic viewing experience doesn't really matter that
much within academia. In fact, it probably would hurt one's academic
career if one tried to write articles that did that! One very important
feature of an academic article, perhaps *the* most important feature, is
that one has to sound superior to one's subject. But at least for me, a
great film leaves me wasted; as I was just telling a few people, the
last time I saw "Sansho Dayu," which must have been about my tenth
viewing but was my first in a few decades, I had a lot of trouble
watching it because I couldn't stop crying.
So it makes sense to me that academic film studies took a different
direction than the direction I and my friends took in the 1960s, when
you tried to see as many Ford films as possible because (a) they were
probably going to be great and (b) even if they weren't so great they
would likely have great moments and (c) even if there were no great
moments they might help illuminate his great films.
After discovering a great film for the first time, or seeing one again
and finding it even greater, a common gesture among myself and a few
friends was not to speak at all, but just to suddenly raise one's hands
in the air and smile.
- Fred
2444
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:13am
Subject: Re: Auteurism, and Brakhage, in Belo Horizonte + film academia
> That professors prefer to show video copies when prints are
> available is really outrageous. Are they just too lazy to fuss with
> a projector?
The NYU cinema studies department has a very impressive collection of
16mm's and a platoon of trained projectionists (including, at one
point, yours truly), so the professors don't have to worry about
handling the machines or anything, really, unless they bring in their
own stuff (which is rare).
I think there is a variety of factors at work. In the case of
MOTHLIGHT, the instructor chose not to show and in fact spent about
two minutes asserting (but not explaining) that it would be absurd to
show MOTHLIGHT on DVD, despite the much-lauded quality of the
Criterion Collection disc. It goes like this: the instructor goes
to the department's study center (which services instructors with
viewing material: VHS, DVD, laserdisc, 16mm, BETA) and says he would
like to show MOTHLIGHT, as well as two other Brakhages, THE DEAD and
REFELCTIONS ON BLACK. The head of the center, Ann Harris, obtains
prints for the latter two but tells/asks/advises/etc. the instructor
to show MOTHLIGHT from the Criterion set. Reason being: NYU
doesn't, to my knowledge, have MOTHLIGHT, so NYU would be required to
rent a print from, what, The Filmmaker's Co-op or Anthology Film
Archives. The instructor, who doesn't have tenure, has no choice but
to show the DVD or nothing at all.
This isn't always the case. I'm sure we have a print of STRIKE and
probably EAUX D'ARTIFICE, both of which we watched on video (to make
matters worse, the video projector isn't as good as it could be), but
I think the heart of the matter is, disregarding all other factors:
the body of the NYU cinema studies program is "okay" with showing
videos because they're not really concerned with students getting the
full effect of how wonderful/terrible each movie might be, but simply
exhibiting, in an "academic" manner, content (issues relevant to the
day's lecture) and specific formal characteristics that can be
observed well enough from even a very poor video copy. Even if the
students aren't able to engage fully with the work.
But yeah, bad news.
Jaime
2445
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:18am
Subject: NYU
Nevertheless, and not to excuse or apologize for NYU, but the Cinema
Studies chair told me that they show prints more often than any other
comparable department or program in the U.S. From talking to
students and former students across the country, over the past two or
three years, I'm sure this is the truth.
Outside the department is completely hopeless. The Film/TV program
only shows prints of student work. And non-film classes will just
pop in a tape or a DVD - what's a print?
Jaime
2446
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 7:19am
Subject: Ozu and cinephilia
One of the many things I've taken from the ongoing "Ozu Celebration"
(running here in conjunction with the New York Film Festival) is the
preponderance in evidence in his pre-1940s work that Ozu was a true-
blue cinephile. This is apparent in (1) his set design, which in the
silents almost invariably includes a movie poster from a Hollywood
film (most memorably Borzage's SEVENTH HEAVEN and a William Powell-
Ruth Chatterton picture called CHARMING SINNERS), (2) his imagery, as
in the gangster-tries-to-go-straight comedy-drama WALK CHEERFULLY,
which is nothing if not a collage of references to American crime
melodramas, and most strikingly, (3) his themes and narratives. In
the past few days alone, in my notebook on the Ozu series, I've
invoked Borzage (some silents, and the 1948 HEN IN THE WIND seems
taken from the STREET ANGEL template), Hawks (the frequent but
effortless dance between comedy and drama in BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF
THE TODA FAMILY seems very Hawksian to me, and the hero, Shojiro, is
very much a Japanese Geoff Carter), Ford (the integrity of a
community and the particularities of its members), McCarey (harder to
get a fix on, but both TODA FAMILY and TOKYO STORY appropriate and
modify the MAKE WAY FOR TOMORROW plot structure, and Ozu makes that
film's themes his own), and the program notes also mention Lubitsch.
Furthermore, I have to wonder if there isn't a little Rossellini
neorealism in HEN IN THE WIND and RECORD OF A TENEMENT GENTLEMAN, or
whether Ozu was inspired by Tati's MON ONCLE before shooting GOOD
MORNING (it's not impossible - GM was shot in three months in early
1959, while MON ONCLE was enjoying continued international success).
Thoughts, anyone? Additions? I'm afraid I haven't read any Ozu
biographies, or anything substanial about the director, so forgive a
little naivete.
Jaime
2447
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 7:23am
Subject: Re: Ozu and cinephilia
I haven't even mentioned the silent comedians - Keaton and Lloyd
(directors; performers), as well as McCarey and Lubitsch (directors),
without a doubt.
-Jaime
2448
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:11am
Subject: Re: Ozu and cinephilia
J-C Biette was the first critic I read (in a 1979 article) who
compared Ozu to non-Japanese auteurs: Hawk, McCarey, Rohmer and
Olmi, "whose work manifests a perfect conformity with the ideology
and sentiments of the society in which they live." He added that this
harmony in Ozu "acts on us with a touch of perversity...which is
expressed as inisdiously by Hawks and Rohmer, but by other means."
The taste for repetition of situations he compared, of course, to
Hawks and Rohmer as well. (He thought that the comparison with
McCarey was complicated by "the appeal of melodrama and the genius
for metamorphosis [in LM].") He felt that the Occidental filmmakers
who were mostlike Ozu weren't Wenders, Akerman and Handke, but Hawks
and Rohmer (in Claire's Knee and La Collectioneuse
particularly), "where the intersection between the actors' movements
and the changes of setting are so well resolved that the very
movement of the films acts with more force than the ideological
brakes which assure their authors." (In a note he also pointed out
the direct influence on Mizoguchi of Ford, Wyler, Sternberg, Lubitsch
and All About Eve, which KM specifically said somewhere that he
admired.)
Critics I know here and in France have been less accepting of Ang
Lee, who told me when I interviewed him for the Ice Storm presskit
that Ozu was his favorite director, because the "ideological and
sentimental conformity" to his society (which one?) strikes them as
bourgeois, a charge those critics would never level at Ozu. Is AL
just another Olmi (whom Biette ranked below Hawks, McCarey and
Rohmer, of course), or is he a worthy successor of Ozu? (Lee also
loves Wilder.) Time will tell, I guess, but I like everything he has
done so far. So does Blake Lucas, for those who know who that is.
2449
From: Henrik Sylow
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 11:22am
Subject: Re: Ozu and cinephilia
The question is not so much if Ozu was influenced by other directors,
the questions should be when and to what degree.
Considering that Japan practically was an isolated country up until
1946, where they were exposed to american cinema because they were
occupied by the USA, and considering how unlike anything else,
Japanese cinema developed independently up thru the silent years
(their use of benshi) and in the two distinct styles of pre WW2 sound
films, I find it unlikely that Ozu would have seen that many pre WW2
films and that he would be so in awe of them that they directly
influenced theme and motif.
During the occupation, he would have had a chance to see american
cinema, but only what the army deemed great fun. Lubitch, McCarey,
Ford, Hawks are four directors I know were favorits amongst the GI -
action and comedy. To Richie he admitted so much, that Lubitch was one
of the few american directors who he treasured. But apart from that
Ozu has rarely spoken about sources of influence or favorite films /
directors.
Im not saying that Ozu wasnt a cinephile at all, but I will argue that
it is very unlikely that he saw that many american films before 1946,
and that he wouldnt have had any real freedom in watching foreign film
until after 1949. And how big a difference is there in Ozu's styles
and motifs from 1942 to 1958?
The reason why I am so carefull in suggesting influences on Japanese
film is, that they dont watch western cinema as we do. Even today,
where they can get their hands on everything, we dont see american
cinema or motifs influence japanese directors to a degree, where you
can put your finger on it and say "Thats an influence". I know it's
not fair to compare today with the forties, but I do believe that
chances are, that it is us who create and read an influence into a
film, especially if before 1946.
Henrik
2450
From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 1:39pm
Subject: Re: Ozu and cinephilia
> Im not saying that Ozu wasnt a cinephile at all, but I will argue that
> it is very unlikely that he saw that many american films before 1946,
Citing Ozu's interest in American film from the silents on is a commonplace!
"Like other urban Taisho youths, he admired Western culture, especially one form of it. 'Film had a magical hold on me.' Ozu was almost certainly the most cinephiliac major director before the New Wave. Growing up in Matsusaka, he would sneak away from school to see Chaplin, Pearl White, Lillian Gish, and William S. Hart.... He boasted that he took his examination for high school solely to get a trip to Kobe to see _The Prisoner of Zenda._ Throughout the 1030s he continued to follow American films. While he and his cinematographer Atsuta were stationed in Singapore in 1943-45, they screened captured prints of _Citizen Kane_, _The Grapes of Wrath_, _Rebecca_, _The Letter_, _The Little Foxes_, _Wuthering Heights_, and other recent Hollywood products. Admirals might plot strategy, but Ozu had a more direct gauge of the enemy's prowess: 'Watching _Fantasia_ made me suspect that we were going to lose the war....' The citations of Hollywood throughout his work, from the _Seventh Heaven_ poster in _Days of Youth_ (1929) to the poster for _The Defiant Ones_ in _Ohayo_ (1959), spring from his passionate love of American film." -- David Bordwell, "Ozu and the Poetics of Cinema"
2451
From:
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:41am
Subject: Re: Ozu and Cinephilia
Ozu became movie mad in middle school. He saw a vast number of silent films
in the years around 1920, and reportedly became an Kevin Brownlow-level expert
on world silent film. His feelings seem remarkably similar to those of the
cinephiles of the 50's and 60's. Among his favorite stars were Pearl White,
Lillian Gish and William S. Hart. Ozu also liked director Rex Ingram. (I suspect
that Ingram's "Scaramouche" also influenced Fritz Lang's "Metropolis".) David
Bordwell says Ozu was much influenced by Harold Lloyd. Ozu's two versions of
Floating Weeds are re-makes of an American silent film directed by George
Fitzmaurice. (I've never seen this particular Fitzmaurice - he's an interesting
director, though). Ozu was also on record in later years as admiring Max Ophuls.
Ozu has a staggering visual style. It centers on amazing compositions
frequently made up of rectilinear regions and diagonal lines. It has often been
compared to Mondrian.
Sternberg once wished that his films would be projected upside down, so that
people could ignore their plots and characters, and just concentrate on their
visual images. You could watch all of Ozu's films upside down, with the
soundtrack turned off and no subtitles, and still have a rich and rewarding
experience. The transition shots in Ozu's films, those between the events in the
story, are especially rich in compositional complexity.
Watching "Alias Jimmy Valentine" (Maurice Tourneur, 1915), I was struck by
the similarities of the visual style of this early film to Ozu. Tourneur likes
elaborate compositions made out of rectilinear regions. There are also
exteriors in this film containing those two Ozu trademarks, wash hanging on a line,
and telephone poles with power lines stretched between them. Ozu was always
incorporating these features into his compositions to make elaborate geometric
patterns.
Mike Grost
2452
From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:56pm
Subject: Japanese soldiers watching films
On Saturday, October 11, 2003, at 05:55 AM, a_film_by@yahoogroups.com
wrote:
I watched a TV program on Rita Hayward, the soldiers' pinup in WW2.
The veterans said they would be watching RH movies (GILDA came out in
1946) and they could hear the Japanese soldiers coming down from the
mountains to watch the films.
2453
From: Rick Segreda
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 4:46pm
Subject: The new "art" porn
Bruno Dumont's memorably terrible "29 Palms," which I recently saw at the Vancouver International Film Festival, got me thinking about a new trend in movies: increasingly explicit sex scenes that are crossing over into pornography for the arthouse crowd. There is "29 Palms," of course, Vincent Gallo's "The Brown Bunny," from which I have read the audience gets to see Sophie Marceau perform a Lewinsky on the auteur, Patrice Chereau's "Intimacy," ditto, with Kerry Fox servicing Mark Ryland, and Alfonso Cuaron's "Y Tu Mama Tambien."
It is important to make some distinctions. In "29 Palm" and "Y Tu Mama Tambien" the sex looks pretty real, but the directors coyly resist showing us that empirical evidence of authenticity: an actor's erection, but the selling point for both movies nontheless is just that; the audience is titilated by wondering if the actors are really doing it.
And the publicity hype for "Intimacy" was that we actually get to see Kerry Fox, if only for a few seconds, doing you-know-what.
It is worth noting, I suppose, that Marco Bellochio got an early start on this trend back in 1987 with his remake of "Devil and the Flesh," which featured an actual on-screen bj by professional actors. I remember at the time that Vincent Canby dedicated his Sunday NY Times arguing that Bellochio's movie conclusively proves that real sex doesn't work in a real movie, and renders the rest of the film self-conscious and phony, on a par with obviously fake sets or bland dialogue.
But that hasn't stopped the trend. Later this year, John Cameron Mitchell ("Hedwig and the Angry Inch") will showcase his "sex film project," a mostly gay sex comedy featuring real actors acting but also really having sex. Mitchell defends his work, saying why can't we, the audience enjoy a movie and say afterwards "I laughed, I cried, I came." Of course, the real pioneer in this regard was the late Frank Ripploh's "Taxi Zum Klo," which I saw way back when in 1979 (I was sixteen), and only left me nauseaus since I didn't find actual golden showers a turn on on the screen or elsewhere.
Still, this does all make for interesting speculation. Will this trend move on from art house, foreign and independent movies to mainstream Hollywood movies? Will there be a new fusion of porn and art, a new genre? Will this make us re-evaluate not only what we consider art, but what we consider sex?
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The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2454
From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:15pm
Subject: Re: The new "art" porn
it's no Sophie Marceau, it's Chloë Sevigny
r.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Segreda"
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 1:46 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] The new "art" porn
>
> Bruno Dumont's memorably terrible "29 Palms," which I recently saw at the
Vancouver International Film Festival, got me thinking about a new trend in
movies: increasingly explicit sex scenes that are crossing over into
pornography for the arthouse crowd. There is "29 Palms," of course, Vincent
Gallo's "The Brown Bunny," from which I have read the audience gets to see
Sophie Marceau perform a Lewinsky on the auteur, Patrice Chereau's
"Intimacy," ditto, with Kerry Fox servicing Mark Ryland, and Alfonso
Cuaron's "Y Tu Mama Tambien."
>
> It is important to make some distinctions. In "29 Palm" and "Y Tu Mama
Tambien" the sex looks pretty real, but the directors coyly resist showing
us that empirical evidence of authenticity: an actor's erection, but the
selling point for both movies nontheless is just that; the audience is
titilated by wondering if the actors are really doing it.
>
> And the publicity hype for "Intimacy" was that we actually get to see
Kerry Fox, if only for a few seconds, doing you-know-what.
>
> It is worth noting, I suppose, that Marco Bellochio got an early start on
this trend back in 1987 with his remake of "Devil and the Flesh," which
featured an actual on-screen bj by professional actors. I remember at the
time that Vincent Canby dedicated his Sunday NY Times arguing that
Bellochio's movie conclusively proves that real sex doesn't work in a real
movie, and renders the rest of the film self-conscious and phony, on a par
with obviously fake sets or bland dialogue.
>
> But that hasn't stopped the trend. Later this year, John Cameron Mitchell
("Hedwig and the Angry Inch") will showcase his "sex film project," a mostly
gay sex comedy featuring real actors acting but also really having sex.
Mitchell defends his work, saying why can't we, the audience enjoy a movie
and say afterwards "I laughed, I cried, I came." Of course, the real pioneer
in this regard was the late Frank Ripploh's "Taxi Zum Klo," which I saw way
back when in 1979 (I was sixteen), and only left me nauseaus since I didn't
find actual golden showers a turn on on the screen or elsewhere.
>
> Still, this does all make for interesting speculation. Will this trend
move on from art house, foreign and independent movies to mainstream
Hollywood movies? Will there be a new fusion of porn and art, a new genre?
Will this make us re-evaluate not only what we consider art, but what we
consider sex?
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
2455
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:57pm
Subject: Re: The new "art" porn
My idiot stepson broke the connection from his room when I had almost
finished a lengthy post on this subject, obviously dear to my heart,
and now Ruy has stolen my opening: Chloe Sevigny does Gallo in Brown
Bunny, which I hear is a pretty good movie. They were dating at the
time, and he says he took a leaf out of Tinto Brass's book and used a
fake phallus. Sophie Marceau is married to Andrzej Zulawsjki, a good
Polish-French director to whom she is Catholically faithful, as
advertised in Fidelity, a film they made when everyone and his uncle
was adapting La Princesse de Cleves - but you're entitled to dream,
Rick.
The Cahiers recently featured a dialogue between French porn auteur
John B. Root and Jean-Claude Brisseau, whose latest is apparently
pretty raunchy, with the header Sexe Is Cinema. That was probably the
cover that made Le Monde put their foot down. The CdC were part of an
industrywide fight against a conservative Chirac government official
who wants to get X off tv, where my kids grew up watching it like it
was Crusader Rabbit - no visible harm done, except possibly to the
one who just pulled the plug. Other recent films with X scenes
include Romance and Baise-Moi, both distributed here. Catherine
Breillat, who made Romance, recently made a well-received comedy
about a woman director filming a sex scene.
Of course the Japanese were there first, with the magnificent Realm
of the Senses (Aino Corrida - Corrida of Love), and I have no doubt
that they have kept going, although that film was censored in Japan
at the time. Around the same time Luc Moullet made Anatomy of a
Relationship, where we see him frustratedly attempting onanism when
his girlfriend won't have sex with him to prove a political point for
the whole movie, and Cahiers critic Louis Skorecki made Eugenie de
Franval, an adaptation of Sade's novel consisting of a voiceover from
the book describing stuff the actors aren't doing, ending with the
director committing onanism into the camera. This was also when
Godard made Numero Deux, his X-rated homage to Nick Ray's multiscreen
film We Can't go Home Again, both of which Gabe screened recently in
a tribute to Serge Daney, and in 1974 Ray himself directed and
starred in The Janitor, a hardcore short that was part of a Dutch
anthology film called Reves humides (Wet Dreams).
Please refer to my recent post on Georges Bataille's Story of the
Eye, a Philly underground film which is X all the way. I learned
after seeing it that it premiered in Philly as an installation in the
form of a funhouse using one screen for each of the five sequences,
where half the fun was watching and half the fun was watching others
watching. It also works fine as a linear film. For the record, I have
no problem with people being filmed having a good time, just so long
as it isn't the Mafia doing it. At Skorecki's request I once
interviewed Lasse Braun, a Dutch diplomat's son who made French Blue,
an excellent X I cited in my second published article (about Terence
Fisher's Frankenstein and the Monster from Hell) way back when the
first wave of French X art was being promoted by the Cahiers. Lasse
started off filming himself making love to his Japanese girlfriend
with a camera he designed that permitted him to do zooms while
performing: The Sex Life of Madame Butterfly. He told me the big
thing to watch out for is sending stuff through the mails. I thought
of Lasse when I Fedexed my tape of Story of the Eye to an overseas
festival...
Subliminal X: William Friedkin was obliged to make a few
insignificant cuts in Cruising, mainly darkening out areas of two of
his panoramas of leather club sexual activity, and he responded by
inserting subliminal hardcore frames into the first and third
stabbings before the film was released. (He had already experimented
with a non-X version of subliminal imagery in The Exorcist.) Rather
like Hitchcock filming the train and the tunnel ending to stick it to
the Production Code Ofice after they made him insert a line - "Come
along Mrs. Thornhill" - at the end of North by Northwest to establish
that Eve and Roger are married. Amazingly, the hardcore shots are
indeed there: two in the hotel stabbing and one in the peepshow
stabbing, folded in among the knife inserts - just slow the tape down
to view them. After that, you can't miss them even at normal speed. I
gather there was something along those lines in Fight Club, too.
2456
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 7:57pm
Subject: Re: Re: The new "art" porn
Speaking of creative porn, a most important pioneer is
the late Curt McDowell whose "Thundercrack" was a
midnight movie fave in the 70's. It's the film than
answers the old question "Is it possible to laugh and
come at the same time?"
I devote of chapter of my book "Film: The Front Line
-- 1984" to Curt.
--- hotlove666 wrote:
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2457
From: Rick Segreda
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 8:54pm
Subject: Porn Again!
Thanks for the Chloe vs Sophie correction. I almost feel I owe Madame Marceau an apology. While surfing, I found this interesting take on the topic:
"Porn again" by Philippa Hawker, from a Melbourne paper
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/03/22/1047749979487.html
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2458
From: Jonathan Rosenbaum
Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:57pm
Subject: Re: legrand and preminger
Chris and/or Adrian: I appreciate this recommendation, but all my
efforts to find this via FNAC or French Amazon have been for naught.
Any recommendations about how to acquire this book?
Thanks,
Jonathan
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "chris_fujiwara"
wrote:
> I second Adrian's inspired recommendation of Legrand's Cinemanie,
> which is one of my most-consulted film books.
2459
From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:57am
Subject: h'art-core
In NUMÉRO DEUX mother and father lie naked in bed and ask son and
daughter to identify parts of the anatomy. In HISTOIRE(S) DU CINEMA
Godard shows Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton (?) walking out of a
movie theater revolted with what they have seen (spliced-in images of
hardcore penetration). In ORIGIN OF THE 21ST CENTURY a Jewish girl gets
pissed on in the face by a nazi. Godard's presentation of sex seems
more specific and as a result much less explicit than all who have
invested in this new trend. In NUMÉRO DEUX penis and vagina have as
clear dichotomies as She/He (see Bill's translation of Le therrorisé,
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Esteevee/Daney_Godard.html for some
discussion). In HISTOIRE(S) flashes of porn border on irony. And in
ORIGIN the "shocking", anti-war effect is obvious.
CHOSES SECRETES, DOG DAYS, LIFE OF JESUS, LE PORNOGRAPHE, BAISE-MOI,
WELCOME TO DESTINATION SHANGHAI (the first h'art-core Chinese film),
THE IDIOTS, BROWN BUNNY. I've excluded Catherine Breillat from the list
because she is rumored to be at work on the most explicit sex film ever
(described as ROMANCE x 10). But like Breillat everyone on the list has
a different idea of sex and cinema and porn and cinema.
When I interviewed Vincent Gallo in Toronto this year, he told me, "The
scene isn't just about Chloe suckin' my pecker, and then it's over.
It's not about the moment when we're watching, but how we feel after
its done. My hope is that you take something from it." Shortly before
Chloe Sevigny had walked into the courtyard of the hotel where we were
sitting; Gallo and her seemed to not have seen each other in a while.
They kissed and exchanged niceties, and then Vincent returned to the
table where he made sure to tell me, 1) the penis was real (it fucking
looks real), and 2) the reason for expanding the scene (from the Cannes
cut) was so everybody could be absolutely sure. The ultimate
heterosexual filmmaker?
I learned in Rotterdam that Jean-Claude Brisseau and CHOSES SECRETES
(his most sexually explicit film so far) is based on his experiences
with women. Good one, J-C (one of the ugliest dudes I have met). More
to the point when Brisseau shows on-screen sex, it is from the point of
view of lusty, generally inhibited men -- this point of view is very
clear to us when a woman in the first scene is fingering herself on a
dark, empty stage, and as she is reaching orgasm, the camera pans over
to the bar area, where several men (and some women) are watching her.
The rest of the film is shot through doorways, across mirrors, taken
from reverse shots. It switches around on us -- CHOSES SECRETES clearly
fits into the sexe is cinema category rather than some amalgam of porn
and cinema (in an orgy scene at the end he comes the closest to
Breillat, two filmmakers who began making films more or less at the
same time). The connotation of sex in the film is similar to EYES WIDE
SHUT in its formal, near-austere handling (see Cahiers' praise for
other examples of why).
Also in Toronto this year I interviewed a young Austrian filmmaker
named Ruth Mader, whose film STRUGGLE was in Cannes. Ruth takes us to
an S&M house as well as a community sex-club, and in both instances she
does not show genitals or penetration. I told her that I thought of
Ulrich Seidl while I watched her film, except in Seidl's DOG DAYS there
is penetration and plenty of nudity. I asked Ruth why she made the
choice to avoid sexually explicit images: "I don't like the effect that
sex has in cinema. When we see penetration, we think of porno, and it
distances us from the images rather than bringing us closer."
Bruno Dumont showed penetration in his films the first and only time in
LIFE OF JESUS (which is seen in close-up though it is not a cutaway to
different actors). There is something very beautiful and authentic
about this moment in the film. Dumont was more believable as an ingenue
in those days. With 29 PALMS his characters are older and more
tempered, he has shown an increasingly uglier side since L'HUMANITÉ. In
Toronto, Dumont (the scientist) said: "Humans *are* animals and the
only thing separating us from animal world is our brains." I guess this
is why we fuck people and then when they cheat on us, we murder them.
Dumont is into animal aggression; sex is seen through this lens in his
films.
Bertrand Bonello's LE PORNOGRAPHE (a film I despise) addresses
pornography (not sex) through Jean-Pierre Leaud's semi-retired porn
director. I think we are supposed to believe porn has destroyed this
character and estranged him from his son. On top of that, that he is an
auteur in the industry and we see he has lost his touch in directing a
lengthy fellatio scene -- so cooly erotic that it's impressive the guy
even manages to splurge on the girl. Anyway, these scenes seemed
gratuitous to me, in fact, the whole porn aspect. Maybe I didn't really
understand the film though (and it has been a while)... And then Nicole
Brenez's # 1 movie of the year, BAISE-MOI (aside: I learned how to
pronounce baise-moi from Françoise Lebrun's "Baise-moi, Alexandre!
Baise-moi, Alexandre!" from THE MOTHER AND THE WHORE, a film that if it
were remade today would probably include hardcore sex). In this film we
have a "genre"-porno -- I don't have much to say about the film except
that Despentes and Coralie were instrumental in bringing the question
of hardcore sex into the media, a question that is more or less
censored in the USA, beyond discussion really thanks to the MPAA.
When I think about sex in cinema I remember a Simpsons episode where
both Mr. Burns and Homer went to see the same movie and came back to
work to discuss it. We cut in between Homer and Burns, Homer to his
colleagues: "Man, did you see that movie? And the girl in it! Wow! That
was great!" Cut to Mr. Burns talking to Smithers: "That film was bloody
scandalous. In my day an actress could do more with a raised eyebrow..."
Unfortunately in the US, you are either in the Homer camp, or in the
Burns camp.
Once we grow up maybe we will be able to make a comment on the role of
sex in film....
Gabe
2460
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 2:10am
Subject: Re: Ozu and cinephilia
As a matter of fact Japan was far from isolated prior to WWII. After
the Meiji restoration of 1868 the country embarked on an ambitous
program of modernization. The new government sent envoys to Europe
and the USA to hire western tecnocrats, schoalers, teachers, etc. to
aid in the task of bringing Japan up to speed with the West. From
1872 until the facist period Japan imported not only western
technology but western culture as well.
However, the Japanese assimilated Euro-American technology and
culture and made it their own. Cinema was no exception. Noel Burch's
book To the Distant Observer makes this point well. Many Japanese
filmmakers who started in the '20s and '30s have descibed in later
interviews their fondness for Eur-American movies.
Incidentlly, Ichikawa's Joyu (Film Actress), a biopic about Tanaka
Kinuyo, begins with a short history of Japanese cinema including a
clip from Morocco with vertical "side" titles (to call them sub-
titles would be inaccurate.)
---
In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Henrik Sylow"
wrote:
> The question is not so much if Ozu was influenced by other
directors,
> the questions should be when and to what degree.
>
> Considering that Japan practically was an isolated country up until
> 1946,
2461
From: Tag Gallagher
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 2:25am
Subject: Re: Re: Ozu and cinephilia
I too suspect it's a mistake to concentrate on the inscrutable otherness
of the Japanese. Mizoguchi certainly saw himself as also within
European traditions. "Everything has to be crystalized,
concentrated....You have to write a great work, like Balzac, Stendhal,
Victor Hugo or Dostoyevsky," his scenarist Yoda records him as instructing.
For example, Hiroshi Komatsu recently discovered about four minutes of
nitrate from von Sternberg's Case of Lena Smith in China (he recognized
a frame from still he'd seen!). This clip was just shown in Sacile.
More to the point of our topic Hiroshi wrote me:
" There is the detailed description of each shot from The Case of Lena
Smith. It was done by a Japanese called Masaru Takada and published in a
Japanese movie journal called Eiga Orai (April 1929 and June 1929). Reel
1-4 in April issue, and Reel 5-6 in June issue. Unfortunately, reel 7
and 8 were never printed on that magazine. However, this work is almost
the real continuity. The author describes every shot including footage
of each shot."
So, you see, it's not that the Japanese were oblivious to American
cinema, is it?
**
May I blow my own trumpet and urge everyone to visit the Film
International site where you will find articles by a number of members
of our group, including my own piece on Samuel Fuller.
Anybody like Fuller? http://www.filmint.nu/eng.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2462
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 3:14am
Subject: Re: Re: Ozu and cinephilia
Well I certainly like Fuller!
Excellent piece, Tag. Especially in regard to Fuller
being an "auteur" example to the Nouvelle Vague.
I was verylucky to have been able to send a week on
the set of "White Dog" watching Fuller shoot several
very different scenes.
He was a great filmmaker and a wonderful, wonderful
man.
--- Tag Gallagher wrote:
> I too suspect it's a mistake to concentrate on the
> inscrutable otherness
> of the Japanese. Mizoguchi certainly saw himself as
> also within
> European traditions. "Everything has to be
> crystalized,
> concentrated....You have to write a great work, like
> Balzac, Stendhal,
> Victor Hugo or Dostoyevsky," his scenarist Yoda
> records him as instructing.
>
> For example, Hiroshi Komatsu recently discovered
> about four minutes of
> nitrate from von Sternberg's Case of Lena Smith in
> China (he recognized
> a frame from still he'd seen!). This clip was just
> shown in Sacile.
> More to the point of our topic Hiroshi wrote me:
>
> " There is the detailed description of each shot
> from The Case of Lena
> Smith. It was done by a Japanese called Masaru
> Takada and published in a
> Japanese movie journal called Eiga Orai (April 1929
> and June 1929). Reel
> 1-4 in April issue, and Reel 5-6 in June issue.
> Unfortunately, reel 7
> and 8 were never printed on that magazine. However,
> this work is almost
> the real continuity. The author describes every shot
> including footage
> of each shot."
>
> So, you see, it's not that the Japanese were
> oblivious to American
> cinema, is it?
>
> **
>
>
> May I blow my own trumpet and urge everyone to
> visit the Film
> International site where you will find articles by a
> number of members
> of our group, including my own piece on Samuel
> Fuller.
>
> Anybody like Fuller?
> http://www.filmint.nu/eng.html
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
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2463
From: Joseph Kaufman
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 3:43am
Subject: Re: The new "art" porn
Arguably Warhol was there first with COUCH and FUCK (aka BLUE MOVIE).
--
- Joe Kaufman
2464
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 4:00am
Subject: Re: Re: The new "art" porn
Correct!
--- Joseph Kaufman wrote:
> Arguably Warhol was there first with COUCH and FUCK
> (aka BLUE MOVIE).
> --
>
> - Joe Kaufman
>
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2465
From: Joseph Kaufman
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:47am
Subject: Re: Re: The new "art" porn
Aside from Carolee Schneeman in "Fuses" (1964-7), there was another
woman film maker who incorporated sexually explicit images circa
early 1960s. I'm embarrassing myself by not remembering her name.
Perhaps one of the people more expert in "underground" and
experimental films can step in here.
--
- Joe Kaufman
2466
From: Rick Segreda
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:15am
Subject: Sam Fuller and leftwing blacklisting
Elia Kazan's death brought back the whole issue of Joseph McCarthy and the damage inflicted on Hollywood careers by political hysteria. Over time McCarthy's very name morphed from noun to a pejorative adjective, and deservedly so, in my judgement.
Yet it was this same spirit of hysteria, panic, and recrimination that aborted Sam Fuller's comeback in the early 1980's when the NAACP denounced "White Dog" without even seeing it, though both Fuller and the film were explicitly anti-racist. The studios buckled, as they had earlier to the regressive conservative pressures of, initally, the Catholic Legion of Decency and, later, HUAC, and that was that for Sam Fuller.
Yet no one seems to scorn NAACP for it's mindless political correctness, and the resulting destructive impact. (Which is still going on, btw, in the new controversy regarding the 'n-word,' which many black leaders won't allow to be read or spoken even in the service of anti-racism, cf: Randall Kennedy's book, 'Nigger: The Strange History of a Troublesome Word')
Double standard?
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2467
From: Rick Segreda
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:34am
Subject: Re: h'art-core: sexism?
Whether it is Federico Pitzalis in "Devil in the Flesh" or Mark Ryland in "Intimacy" or Vince Gallo in "Brown Bunny," or anything else I've read -- here and elsewhere -- the hype is all about the camera closing in on an actress servicing the male lead. To be blunt, I think it would be really revolutionary to show an actor, on HIS knees, providing the service to his leading lady, in close-up. I am surprised Camille Paglia or someone like her hasn't made a cause celebre out of this already.
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2468
From: iangjohnston
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:08am
Subject: Re: h'art-core
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Gabe Klinger wrote:
>
> Bertrand Bonello's LE PORNOGRAPHE (a film I despise) addresses
> pornography (not sex) through Jean-Pierre Leaud's semi-retired
porn
> director. I think we are supposed to believe porn has destroyed
this
> character and estranged him from his son. On top of that, that he
is an
> auteur in the industry and we see he has lost his touch in
directing a
> lengthy fellatio scene -- so cooly erotic that it's impressive the
guy
> even manages to splurge on the girl.
Isn't the point of this scene that Leaud's character in his
aesthetic/political idealism is out of touch with the contemporary
porn industry (and hence the modern world)? Not that he's lost his
touch in directing. The scene plays out as the classic conflict
between auteur and producer: Leaud instructs his actress to swallow,
not to remove the penis from her mouth, as an act of beauty; the
producer intervenes, takes over the direction, and orders up the
standard money shot. It sounds a bit ridiculous, but the sequence
(porn shots -- quite *necessary* here; they were censored in
Britain -- intercut with shots of Leaud, slumped in the director's
chair, his face cast downwards, refusing/unable to "look") gave a
potent sense of Leaud's personal defeat.
Ian Johnston
2469
From: Henrik Sylow
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 10:43am
Subject: Re: h'art-core
With Knud Thomsen's "Gift" (Married) the danish censurship recieved a
frontall attack, as the film contained several pornographic scenes. To
spice their marriage up, the husbond showed his wife a porn (8mm) and
we saw close up penetration. It was soon censured and either shown in
cur version or in (big black X) version. Three years later Denmark
abolished censorship and opend the gates for pornography.
When von Trier shows a gang bang in "Idioterne" he does it because the
Dogme rules demands "reality". While he used pornmodels for the close
up penetration, and thereby broke the rules, is hush hush. But he did
it not as much for Dogme, but to rattle the cage of conformity. Just
as in "Gift", the intention was sheer provocation, but where Thomsen
attacked a crippling censurship, von Trier merely attack our sense of
"normality".
Whatever happend during the production of "Caligula" is irrelevant,
but that it became the first real film porn is not. Still today its
borderline, it stars real actors (Helen Mirren, Peter o'Toole, John
Gielgud) and has lots of hard core pornography. Bob Guccione sat out
to make the "best" porn ever and to become a real film maker, and
while I'd say he didn't succeed in either, he opend the other door;
The door to make pornography "normal".
As Gabe says, everyone has a different idea of "sex and cinema" and
"porn and cinema". I'll add to that the question, what door did they
enter in the first place? Was it the "normalising" door or the "shake
things up" door?
Personally I take each film at a time and consider if the use of
pornography serves a purpose towards the narrative. Personally I
believe, that the current approach to "h'art core" (great word btw) is
much like the approach to gore and nudity in the sixties, with the
exception that it wont develop into pornography, as we already have
it. I personally believe that its has become a tool for low budget
film to get attention and publicity. "Baise-Moi" and "Brown Bunny" are
not the best films around, the notion of pornography placed it on
everyone's lips; I saw them solely because they were "controversial"
because of their use of sex and I was deeply dissapointed by both. A
slightly more ingenial variation would be "Irreversible" in aswell,
where Noê insisted on the shock value of erected cocks (even had a
cameo mastubating).
The most curious thing is, as I see it, that the use of "h'art core"
gets us to talk about these films, makes us consider them as art even,
when most of them are really bad films, both story and quality wise.
Gallo even joked about it in Cannes, when he said, that his next film
would be two hours of black screen and then a ten minut blow job at
the end and continued, that the notion of the blow job would have any
critic sit thru it. When films as "Brown Bunny" and "Baise-Moi" ("most
honest and daring film in years") are talked about as art, then our
point of argument serves no purpose, and we have been reduced to
marketplace yeller's; and the fact that there is invented a word,
H'art Core, suggest so.
If thats what Gabe meant, when he said that, "Once we grow up maybe we
will be able to make a comment on the role of sex in film...", I agree
completely.
Henrik
PS: I recall reading once, that de Palma originally wanted "Body
Double" to include real hard core sex, but was talked out of it. I
also recall Coppola talking about wanting to integrate pornography and
"real" film. Can anyone fill in the blanks?
2470
From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:17am
Subject: Re: H'art core
I think it would be really revolutionary to show an actor, on HIS
knees, providing the service to his leading lady, in close-up.
I'm not sure it makes a big diference, but that's what apparently
goes on in Jean-Pierre Limosin's new film Novo, about a man who has
no short-term memory - judging by the photos, cunnilingis (with an
amazingly beautiful woman who appreciates his eternally renewed
innocence) is his thing. At least this gives me a chance to praise
Limosin. My first JPL film was l'Autre nuit, shown in a double bill
from Unifrance with Brisseau's aptly named Le bruit et la fureur, a
loud-mouthed, crude piece of fake filmmaking that drowned out for
most members of the audience the beauty of the second feature, which
reminded me a bit of Cocteau. I have also seen and like Gardien de
nuit, co-directed by Limosin and former Cahiers guy (due for a
comeback at the magazine, my sources say) Alain Bergala. Then JPL's
Tokyo Eyes, made in Japan and in Japanese, became a sleeper hit in
France. Novo is his first since then, and sure enough, here came
Brisseau with another ear-busting stinkbomb, getting all the
attention. Tokyo Eyes is now available in DVD here, and I recommend
it. I would like to see JPL's Cinema de notre temps episode on
Kiarostami.
2471
From: vincent lobrutto
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:56am
Subject: Re: H'art Core
I can shed a little light by confirming that De Palma has stated in interviews that the original intention of Body Double was to show hard core action as part of the narrative but the idea fell by the wayside one would assume because of the censorship issues involved and then shifted the focus of the film to a Hitchcockian voyeur theme.
Many here may know that Copolla directed a "nudie" Tonight For Sure! so it is possible he considered a film with a more aggressive attempt at sexuality.
It has long been a fantasy of many film directors over the decades to direct a quality porn film with well-known actors. The mis-leading pre-buzz on Eyes Wide Shut was part of this legend. Kubrick once remarked to writer Terry Southern that he thought it would be interesting if an A-List director made a porn film with production values, great photography and big stars. Southern was inspired to write the novel Blue Movie which spun the tale Kubrick pondered. The book was dedicated to Kubrick. One day in Castle Kubrick he was reading the novel - Christiane his wife came over looked at one page and said in no uncertain terms that he was not going to make this into a movie.
Vinny
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2472
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 2:06pm
Subject: Re: Sam Fuller and leftwing blacklisting
"Double Standard"? Hold the phone.
"White Dog" was first acquired as a property by
paramount because of the expressed interest of Robert
Towne and Roman Polanski in turning it into a film.
Neither got very far as Polanski's sexual dalliances
with a underage girl sent him into exile. Then in the
early80'swhen writis strike was threatening, hotshot
studio chief Don Simpson decided to put a slate a
projects into production that would be low-budgetand
cold be shot more or lesslocally. The slate included
"An Officer and a Gentleman," "Jeckyl and Hyde
Together Again," a Richard Pryor film whose title
escapes meat the moment and "White Dog."
Simpson made it clear to everyone was that his
"vision" of "White Dog" pivoted on the image of a
beautiful white girl walking a dog that would attack
any black man who so much as came within a few feet of
her.
In other words it was EXPLICITLY RACIST.
However the producer he assigned to the project, Jon
Landis, saved the day by hiring Sam. But the film's
racist reputiona hung over it.And when Fuller turned
in a film that as EXPLICITLY ANTI-RACIST, Simpson
simply let it die by shelving it.
--- Rick Segreda wrote:
> Elia Kazan's death brought back the whole issue of
> Joseph McCarthy and the damage inflicted on
> Hollywood careers by political hysteria. Over time
> McCarthy's very name morphed from noun to a
> pejorative adjective, and deservedly so, in my
> judgement.
>
> Yet it was this same spirit of hysteria, panic, and
> recrimination that aborted Sam Fuller's comeback in
> the early 1980's when the NAACP denounced "White
> Dog" without even seeing it, though both Fuller and
> the film were explicitly anti-racist. The studios
> buckled, as they had earlier to the regressive
> conservative pressures of, initally, the Catholic
> Legion of Decency and, later, HUAC, and that was
> that for Sam Fuller.
>
> Yet no one seems to scorn NAACP for it's mindless
> political correctness, and the resulting destructive
> impact. (Which is still going on, btw, in the new
> controversy regarding the 'n-word,' which many black
> leaders won't allow to be read or spoken even in the
> service of anti-racism, cf: Randall Kennedy's book,
> 'Nigger: The Strange History of a Troublesome Word')
>
> Double standard?
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product
> search
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
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2473
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 2:10pm
Subject: Re: Re: h'art-core: sexism?
If I never hear Camille Paglia's name mentioned ever
again it will be too soon.
This woman has contributed NOTHING to serious
discourse save obfuscationa dna outright LIES about
the wrk of Michel Foulcault -- a great writer whose
work she doesn't so much as begin to comprehend.
--- Rick Segreda wrote:
>
> Whether it is Federico Pitzalis in "Devil in the
> Flesh" or Mark Ryland in "Intimacy" or Vince Gallo
> in "Brown Bunny," or anything else I've read -- here
> and elsewhere -- the hype is all about the camera
> closing in on an actress servicing the male lead. To
> be blunt, I think it would be really revolutionary
> to show an actor, on HIS knees, providing the
> service to his leading lady, in close-up. I am
> surprised Camille Paglia or someone like her hasn't
> made a cause celebre out of this already.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product
> search
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
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2474
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 2:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: The new "art" porn
Her name is Barbara Rubin and her film is "Christmas
On Earth."
She was quite a character.
--- Joseph Kaufman wrote:
> Aside from Carolee Schneeman in "Fuses" (1964-7),
> there was another
> woman film maker who incorporated sexually explicit
> images circa
> early 1960s. I'm embarrassing myself by not
> remembering her name.
> Perhaps one of the people more expert in
> "underground" and
> experimental films can step in here.
> --
>
> - Joe Kaufman
>
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2475
From: Fred Camper
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 2:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: The new "art" porn
hotlove666 wrote:
>....Of course the Japanese were there first....
>
See Stan Brakhage's "Wedlock House: An Intercourse" (1959), which is on
the DVD set.
I have no problem in theory with real sex scenes in narrative films that
call for them. But I saw "The Devil and the Flesh," and aside form the
fact that it was a bad film, the sex stuff fell completely flat, in part
because of the combination of a "real" sex scene (a blow job) with
simulated intercourse scenes between the same two actors. I think people
pounding away with camera angles chosen to not show genitalia is one of
the least convincing type of scenes in cinema -- the old fade-out on a
kiss and fade in the next morning is usually more effective -- but in
that film they were rendered particularly absurd: you're supposed to
"imagine" sex in those scenes having seen it in another.
- Fred
2476
From:
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 10:56am
Subject: Fuller and lists
One of the most enjoyable aspects of Tag Gallagher's articles on Samuel
Fuller in "Film International" and Raoul Walsh in "Senses of Cinema" are the lists
of films. These are rated - nearly every available film by the director is
given from 0 to 4 stars. One can tell at a glance what the author thinks about
the director's films. I tend to agree with the Fuller ratings, although "Baron
of Arizona" and "China Gate" would get more stars here.
In his recent book "Paris Hollywood", Peter Wollen says that lists of films
are far more important than they first appear. They are the best direct guides
into the history of the cinema.
I can tell what a_film_by members Fred Camper, Peter Tonguette and Jaime
Christley think about film history, because they have lists of favorite filmmakers
and/or favorite films on their web sites. (I just updated the lists on my own
web site.) But one cannot really tell what most people on a_film_by really
think about film history. This is a shame!
Peter Tonguette is collecting film lists contributed by a_film_by posters.
Please send them to him! If you have not yet heard about this project, please
consider seriously the creation of best film lists. It is one of the the best
ways to communicate your ideas to a broad audience.
Film History needs you!
Mike Grost
2477
From: Rick Segreda
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 3:31pm
Subject: The legacy of Political Correctness
The film was still shelved due to NAACP protests, an organization which refused even to see the film before condeming it, which is ironic for a group dedicated to combating p-r-e-j-u-d-i-c-e, as in "pre-judging."
We can also thank the NAACP and other self-appointed black leaders (ie: Amiri Baraka) for emasculating black cinema by scaring the studios away from movies which featured black action heroes ("blaxploitation!"), thus letting Stallone and Schwarzenegger have all the fun and reap all the profits. More importantly, black noir and black action genres were never allowed to mature and develop.
"Simpson made it clear to everyone was that his
'vision' of 'White Dog' pivoted on the image of a
beautiful white girl walking a dog that would attack
any black man who so much as came within a few feet of
her.
In other words it was EXPLICITLY RACIST.
However the producer he assigned to the project, Jon
Landis, saved the day by hiring Sam. But the film's
racist reputiona hung over it.And when Fuller turned
in a film that as EXPLICITLY ANTI-RACIST, Simpson
simply let it die by shelving it."
---------------------------------
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2478
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 3:44pm
Subject: Re: The legacy of Political Correctness
I never knew LeRoi Jones had so much power!
--- Rick Segreda wrote:
>
> The film was still shelved due to NAACP protests, an
> organization which refused even to see the film
> before condeming it, which is ironic for a group
> dedicated to combating p-r-e-j-u-d-i-c-e, as in
> "pre-judging."
>
> We can also thank the NAACP and other self-appointed
> black leaders (ie: Amiri Baraka) for emasculating
> black cinema by scaring the studios away from movies
> which featured black action heroes
> ("blaxploitation!"), thus letting Stallone and
> Schwarzenegger have all the fun and reap all the
> profits. More importantly, black noir and black
> action genres were never allowed to mature and
> develop.
>
>
>
>
> "Simpson made it clear to everyone was that his
> 'vision' of 'White Dog' pivoted on the image of a
> beautiful white girl walking a dog that would attack
> any black man who so much as came within a few feet
> of
> her.
>
> In other words it was EXPLICITLY RACIST.
>
> However the producer he assigned to the project, Jon
> Landis, saved the day by hiring Sam. But the film's
> racist reputiona hung over it.And when Fuller turned
> in a film that as EXPLICITLY ANTI-RACIST, Simpson
> simply let it die by shelving it."
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product
> search
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
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2479
From: Rick Segreda
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 4:50pm
Subject: Re: The legacy of Political Correctness
LeRoi was hardly a voice in the wilderness. It was him + Jesse Jackson + NAACP + CORE + Urban League, et al, et cetera. Mr. Jones' didn't intimidate the studios so much as guilt-ridden white liberals in publications like "The Nation." Down with "Shaft" and "Superfly!" Up with "respectable" and "responsible" African-American movies like "Sounder" and "The Autobiography of Miss Jane Pittman." As Andrew Sarris said at the time, whites can live vicariously through James Bond, while black audiences have to suffer through the poetry of cockroaches.
Well, David, you were there back in the 1970's
David Ehrenstein wrote:
I never knew LeRoi Jones had so much power!
--- Rick Segreda wrote:
>
> The film was still shelved due to NAACP protests, an
> organization which refused even to see the film
> before condeming it, which is ironic for a group
> dedicated to combating p-r-e-j-u-d-i-c-e, as in
> "pre-judging."
>
> We can also thank the NAACP and other self-appointed
> black leaders (ie: Amiri Baraka) for emasculating
> black cinema by scaring the studios away from movies
> which featured black action heroes
> ("blaxploitation!"), thus letting Stallone and
> Schwarzenegger have all the fun and reap all the
> profits. More importantly, black noir and black
> action genres were never allowed to mature and
> develop.
>
>
>
>
> "Simpson made it clear to everyone was that his
> 'vision' of 'White Dog' pivoted on the image of a
> beautiful white girl walking a dog that would attack
> any black man who so much as came within a few feet
> of
> her.
>
> In other words it was EXPLICITLY RACIST.
>
> However the producer he assigned to the project, Jon
> Landis, saved the day by hiring Sam. But the film's
> racist reputiona hung over it.And when Fuller turned
> in a film that as EXPLICITLY ANTI-RACIST, Simpson
> simply let it die by shelving it."
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product
> search
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
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2480
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 4:54pm
Subject: Re: The legacy of Political Correctness
Yes, I was around in the 70's. In fact I was around in
the 50's.
I have no idea what Sarris means by "the poetry of
cockroaches."
My favorite blackpolitation movie is "The Cool World."
--- Rick Segreda wrote:
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2481
From: Chris Fujiwara
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 5:06pm
Subject: Re: legrand and preminger
Jonathan:
I think your best bet may be checking with the Paris film-bookstores
from time to time to see if a used copy comes in. I bought my copy
second-hand several years ago, I forget where, maybe at the Strand in
New York? It has a Cinemabilia sticker on it, but I know I didn't buy
it there.
Sorry I can't be of more help here.
Chris
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
wrote:
> Chris and/or Adrian: I appreciate this recommendation, but all my
> efforts to find this via FNAC or French Amazon have been for
naught.
> Any recommendations about how to acquire this book?
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "chris_fujiwara"
> wrote:
> > I second Adrian's inspired recommendation of Legrand's Cinemanie,
> > which is one of my most-consulted film books.
2482
From: Rick Segreda
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:35pm
Subject: The legacy of Political Correctness II
What Sarris meant by the "poetry of cockroaches" is that the only films leaders in the black community approved of for black audiences where moviest that were very much like De Sica's early neo-realist films: liberal, socially conscious, well-intentioned message movies.
So while the the Superego of Political Correctness inhibited the potential for passion and wild creativity in black cinema, white filmmakers at the time (Coppolla, Milius, Scorsese, Schrader, DePalma, Friedkin, Schrader, Aldrich) gave their Id nihilistic free reign in all sorts of violent genres, such as the gangster and the horror films, without even having the old Production Code obligation to have their movies punish the bad guys.
I grew up in New York in a school that was 50% black, and it was the bad-ass white gangster and horror films my black friends and class mates paid their money to see, not well-intentioned didactic movies like "Claudine" and "The River Niger." These kids were fully aware already that they were poor and with limited options in life, and didn't need to go to the movies to be reminded of that.
Due to the obtuse stupidity of liberal Political Correctness, one can only speculate how many black Scorsese's and Coppolla's could have evolved back then.
David Ehrenstein wrote:Yes, I was around in the 70's. In fact I was around in
the 50's.
I have no idea what Sarris means by "the poetry of
cockroaches."
My favorite blackpolitation movie is "The Cool World."
--- Rick Segreda wrote:
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2483
From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:10pm
Subject: h'art core, pc
I omitted an important h'art core film, O Fantasma (Portugese), which
I saw at Venice a couple of years ago. Beyond the one gay hardcore
shot, what is transgressive about this film is the portrayal of a
young guy whose sexual instincts are unsocialized, who ends up in a
black leather suit (more Feuillade than Cruising) returning to
nature. (In a non-hard style that's what Gardien de nuit, by Jean-
Pierre Limosin and Alain Bergala, is about. Much, much better than
Robert Succo, the new Cedric Kahn serial killer film.) O Fantasma
just missed being on the CdC editors' 10 best list because the fix
was in for Sobibor, and the votes were counted in a way that ensured
that Sobibor would be number 10.
I had been on the First Film jury when it was shown in Venice, and I
would gladly (if I could have gotten anyone but Atom Egoyan to go
along) have given a joint 1st prize to O Fantasma and Noite, a DV
film about drug addition produced by Paolo Branco, also Portugese.
The new generation in Portugal is going in exactly the opposite
direction of their elders, who made a cinema of Culture; this is
going to be a cinema of Nature. O Fantasma played in LA for a couple
of weeks without creating a stir, and should be coming out in video;
as far I know Noite never made it to the US.
I dtry not to use the term political correctness, except ironically,
because it is an invention of Republican think tanks. I know the
campuses are full of it, sometimes to detrimental effect; I just wish
the society were more full of it than it is, with consequences to be
sorted out later. (Example of how far we are from that: the
California recall vote, where it has been argued that Schwarzenegger
was rewarded by at least some of the voters for putting in their
place women who had the misfortune of having low-end jobs on his
sets.) I think any utopian plan - such as eliminating racism! -
sounds comical and/or authoritarian because it is spelling out,
making conscious, prescriptions and proscriptions which have not yet
become second nature. Imagine a description of all the things you do
during the day written as a set of pre/proscriptions - like not
crossing against a red light. It would sound like you live in a
nightmare totalitarian state. This is a characteristic you quickly
notice when you start reading actual literary examples of the utopian
genre - whether Plato or More or Morris or whoever.
I totally agree that oppressed groups are entitled to see heroic
images of themselves, not victim images. That was a big quarrel in
Brazil when we were filming the story of the jangadeiros, which is
like a great unwritten epic poem of which four Men on a Raft is just
one canto. That's what I wanted to film and did; other members of the
team thought the way to go was to show how poor and wretched they
are - a sure sign of an I-am-a-victim mentality in the purveyor(s),
in my opinion - so we did that, too. Little of either got used, for
reasons that have nothing to do with this discussion. All the evil in
the world has been done by someone who thought he/she was a victim.
The producer of White Dog was Jon Davison, of Starship Troopers fame,
who was coming off his success with Airplane. Sam and Curtis Hanson
cowrote the script, with Sam doing most of the writing. The NAACP
censorship effort was really just one guy, the head of the local
office, not the whole organization. I think Tag's article on Fuller,
by centering the oeuvre on this film, gets at a very important theme:
programming. The description of the characters in Big Red One
as "white dogs" is right on.
I think The Cool World is a great film. Portrait of Jason, too. What
a talent she had.
One more note on the first wave of h'art core: Jim McBride made Hot
times for Archie, an X version of Archie and His Friends back in the
day. He also included a very shaky out of focus shot of intercourse
in Pictures from Life's Other Side, a beautiful sequel to My
Girlfriend's Wedding - the poor quality of the shot was a consequence
of who was shooting at that point, which was the point of the shot
anyway.
2484
From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:11pm
Subject: PS
Yet another jury, headed by Bellochio, gave Noite its first prize.
That and 65 cents...
2485
From: Joseph Kaufman
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: The new "art" porn
David wrote:
>Her name is Barbara Rubin and her film is "Christmas
>On Earth."
>
>She was quite a character.
That's the one. Wasn't Rubin part of the early Warhol circle?
"Christmas on Earth" is still quite a remarkable film, and way ahead
of its time for 1963 (the date according to IMDb). Has a mixture of
explicit straight and gay sex, IIRC.
Jean Renoir tells in his autobiography about being offered the
opportunity to do a "smoker" film back in the 1920s. It never
happened, not because of "moral" considerations. Now *that* would
have been a film to see.
--
- Joe Kaufman
2486
From: Joseph Kaufman
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:44pm
Subject: Re: h'art core, pc
The uncut version of Verhoeven's SPETTERS has an on-screen gay
blowjob in an alley, but it looks like a fake phallus.
--
- Joe Kaufman
2487
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:09pm
Subject: Re: The legacy of Political Correctness II
So what you're saying is "Scream Blakula Scream" is a
geuinely important film, while "Claudine" (directed by
my second-favorite Communist, John Berry) is just so
much "Politically Correct" trash.
Makes perfect sense for a Neo-Con such as yourself.
Now go clean up Iraq like a good fellow.
--- Rick Segreda wrote:
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2488
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: The new "art" porn
Gerard Malanga was one of the participants in
"Christmas On Earth," and yes she knew Warhol. But she
was a lot closer to Jonas Mekas.
--- Joseph Kaufman wrote:
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2489
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:14pm
Subject: Re: h'art core, pc
"O Fantasma" is indeed a very memorable and disturbing
film. It's coming out on homse video shortly and I
reccomend it with caution.
Thanks for bringing up "Hard Times For Archie." Talk
about "lost films"!
--- hotlove666 wrote:
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2490
From: Rick Segreda
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:22pm
Subject: Political Correctness: snobbery vs slobbery
The "Blacula" movies weren't on a par with the "Nosferatu" and "Vampyr," but heck, they were fun, and I'd still prefer to sit through them than "Claudine," AND SO WOULD MOST BLACK & WHITE AUDIENCES.
Heck, "Stagecoach" isn't politically correct, but it sure holds up a lot better than the preachy, earnest "Grapes of Wrath." So, neo-con or not, I am a hot-blooded auteurist at heart who prefers visceral genres like the horror film or the gangster movie or the suspense thriller or the musical or the comedy or even the soap opera over earnest, preachy, well-intentioned movies. And I think Francios Truffaut, Andre Balzac, Alfred Hitchcock, and Howard Hawks are in heaven right now nodding in agreement.
Now I am REALLY psyched-up to see "Kill Bill." Go Quentin!!
David Ehrenstein wrote:So what you're saying is "Scream Blakula Scream" is a
geuinely important film, while "Claudine" (directed by
my second-favorite Communist, John Berry) is just so
much "Politically Correct" trash.
Makes perfect sense for a Neo-Con such as yourself.
Now go clean up Iraq like a good fellow.
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2491
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:25pm
Subject: Re: Political Correctness: snobbery vs slobbery
"Now I am REALLY psyched-up to see "Kill Bill." Go
Quentin!!"
I'm sure you can imagine where I'd like Quentin to go.
--- Rick Segreda wrote:
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2492
From: Damien Bona
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:45pm
Subject: Re: Political Correctness: snobbery vs slobbery
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Rick Segreda
wrote:
> Heck, "Stagecoach" isn't politically correct, but it sure holds up
a lot better than the preachy, earnest "Grapes of Wrath."
With its repulsive Republican banker villain (the marvelous Berton
Churchill) and tender treatment of the societal outcasts played by
Thomas Mitchell (drunkard) and Claire Trevor (prostitute), Stagecoach
is as much of a populist New Deal movie as The Grapes of Wrath.
2493
From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:51pm
Subject: The Good Old Naughty Days (2002 documentary)
Any one see THE GOOD OLD NAUGHTY DAYS?
2494
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:18pm
Subject: Re: The Good Old Naughty Days (2002 documentary)
Yes. It's a pretty amusing compilation of silent porno
films of the sort one could see in whorehouses in the
early part of the last century.
For some reason Pascale Greggory's name is attached to
the project. I think there's a law against doing
anything in France without his participation in some
form.
--- Elizabeth Nolan wrote:
> Any one see THE GOOD OLD NAUGHTY DAYS?
>
>
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2495
From: Damien Bona
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:21pm
Subject: Re: Fuller and lists
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> In his recent book "Paris Hollywood", Peter Wollen says that lists
of films
> are far more important than they first appear. They are the best
direct guides
> into the history of the cinema.
> I can tell what a_film_by members Fred Camper, Peter Tonguette and
Jaime
> Christley think about film history, because they have lists of
favorite filmmakers
> and/or favorite films on their web sites. (I just updated the lists
on my own
> web site.) But one cannot really tell what most people on a_film_by
really
> think about film history. This is a shame!
Mike, this is my list of 20 favorite films which I submitted to YMDb:
1. Breakfast At Tiffany's (Blake Edwards)
2. Make Way For Tomorrow (Leo McCarey)
3. The Awful Truth (Leo McCarey)
4. Rules Of The Game (Jean Renoir)
5. Imitation of Life (Douglas Sirk)
6. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (John Ford)
7. The Bells Of St. Mary's (Leo McCarey)
8. Lola Montes (Max Ophuls)
9. The Seventh Victim (Mark Robson/Val Lewton)
10. Portrait Of Jennie (William Dieterle)
11. The Band Wagon (Vincente Minnelli)
12. There's Always Tomorrow (Douglas Sirk)
13. Skin Deep (Blake Edwards)
14. She Wore A Yellow Ribbon (John Ford)
15. Kiss Me Deadly (Robert Aldrich)
16. Day Of The Outlaw (Andre De Toth)
17. The Shop Around The Corner (Ernst Lubitsch)
18. Playtime (Jacques Tati)
19. Viaggio In Italy (Roberto Rossellini)
20. An Autumn Afternoon (Yasujiro Ozu)
2496
From:
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 5:32pm
Subject: Fuller
My favorite of Samuel Fuller's novels is "Crown of India" (1966). This is an
adventure thriller with terrific plotting and storytelling. Too bad he never
made it into a movie.
"White Dog" was shown here in Detroit in a "non-controversial" ad campaign.
The newspaper ads showed a cute picture of the dog, and a tag-line that read
"he was a beautiful dog that she nursed back to health". The idea was that the
film was like Benji or Old Yeller. When I saw it at the local multiplex, the
only other people in the theater were around 8 little old ladies, who said
"Awww!" every time the dog showed up. This test-market campaign was judged a flop,
and not used in other cities.
I agreed that the film was deeply anti-racist, like all of Fuller's films,
and never understood why it should be controversial.
Fuller was one of the first American film makers regularly to include
non-stereotyped minority characters in his films. He deserves our admiration and
gratitude for this. He helped pave the way for a more integrated cinema.
Mike Grost
PS Two favorite taglines for movie ads:
For "Leather Jackets", a thriller: "They went too far, then kept right on
going!"
For "The Lift", a horror movie about a killer elevator: "Take the Stairs! For
Heaven's sake, take the stairs!"
2497
From: Tristan
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:50pm
Subject: Rare Film Trading
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rarefilmtrading
I just started this group in order to make a home for people wanting
to trade rare films on home video. Please join if you are interested.
I honestly have no idea how it's going to work, but it will be nice
to see how it turns out. Sorry for the self-promotion.
2498
From: Fred Camper
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:51pm
Subject: [Fwd: More Pee Cee]
"auteurwannabe2000" has send this and the next post to me rather than
emailing it to the group.
I am forwarding it to the group to warn everyone of the danger of
clicking on "email to group owner" or whatever it is he did.
And folks, please SIGN your posts! Using your real name is not a
requirement, but do we really want to use only email addresses?
Fred
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: More Pee Cee
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:47:08 -0000
From: "auteurwannabe2000"
To: a_film_by-owner@yahoogroups.com
> I try not to use the term political correctness, except ironically,
> because it is an invention of Republican think tanks.
No it ain't. I grew up reading Andrew Sarris in the pages of the
Village Voice during the 1970's, and I can assure you that the
phrase "political correctness" was used routinely and unironically by
the fingerpointing (to use Bob Dylan's phrase) political writers at
that paper to designate what is appropriate and not appropriate.
>(Example of how far we are from that: the
> California recall vote, where it has been argued that
Schwarzenegger was rewarded by at least some of the voters for
putting in their
> place women who had the misfortune of having low-end jobs on his
> sets.)
A high number of women voted for -- and defended -- Ahnuld. More
disturbing for me was an actual quote from the a California NOW
spokesperson explaining why NOW maintained a double-standard
regarding Ahnuld vis-a-vis Slick Willy. Her response was because
Ahnuld was a Republican. Andrew Sullivan has the quote on his
website. It reminds me of how NOW refused to condemn the OJ verdict
because he was "an important figure in the African-American
community." Check out Tammy Bruce's book on the subject.
>It would sound like you live in a
> nightmare totalitarian state. This is a characteristic you quickly
> notice when you start reading actual literary examples of the
utopian
> genre - whether Plato or More or Morris or whoever.
Precisely the point George Orwell was making in "1984," which was a
brief against Stalin and Stalinists.
> I totally agree that oppressed groups are entitled to see heroic
> images of themselves, not victim images.
Yes!!!
>All the evil in
> the world has been done by someone who thought he/she was a victim.
Yes!!! And that goes for everybody, every idealogy, every color,
religion, whatever.
2499
From: Fred Camper
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:51pm
Subject: [Fwd: more h'art core: anything goes?]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: more h'art core: anything goes?
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:02:14 -0000
From: "auteurwannabe2000"
To: a_film_by-owner@yahoogroups.com
I still say we don't have enough on-screen muff-diving to balance
things out...
Also, I seriously doubt that even if actual sex becomes a standard in
foriegn and independent movies, I can't see it happening in big
studio features meant to make money outside of New York, LA, and San
Franciso. Julia Roberts or Sandra Bullock going down on Bruce Willis
or Brad Pitt? In close-up. Playing at your local multiplex? Bargain
matinee for first show and Monday nights?
Here we hit the silent majority, middle-American wall of Puritanism,
shame, guilt, and embarrasment regarding sexuality that has been a
mainstay of our culture since the Puritans got a shock when they
landed on Plymouth Rock.
2500
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Oct 12, 2003 10:28pm
Subject: Re: [Fwd: More Pee Cee]
"I grew up reading Andrew Sarris in the pages of the
Village Voice during the 1970's, and I can assure you
that the
phrase "political correctness" was used routinely and
unironically by
the fingerpointing (to use Bob Dylan's phrase)
political writers at
that paper to designate what is appropriate and not
appropriate."
It was used quite itonically. It was then taken up as
a buzzword by the right-wing. Ever since anyone daring
to take a position that wasn't firmly entrenched in
right-wing politics has been at risk for being
declared a "Politically Correct Nazi."
Tammy Bruce is big on that score. A publisexual who
made her name by screaming about OJ Simpson (rhater
liek shooting fish in a barrel) she now defends the
Steroid Nazi.
Andrew Sullivan deliberately spreads HIV and should be
imprisoned.
--- Fred Camper wrote:
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