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Posts From the Internet Film Discussion Group, a_film_by
This group is dedicated to discussing film as art
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5901
From: Damien Bona
Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:12pm
Subject: The Girl Most Likely
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> "The Girl Can't Help It" was the very last RKOfilm.
> Jane Powell once spoke of ho strange it was in that
> once something was finished the set closed down for
> good. At the end every department at RKO was
> shuttered.
>
> Very charming film
>
And it's on Turner Classics this Friday at 10pm E.S.T.
5902
From: filipefurtado
Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:33pm
Subject: Re: Va savoir + ou _
> >
> > 7. Va Savoir
>
> Do you know whether the version shown in Brazil was the wide
spread
> theatrical release (approx. 2 hours and 40 minutes), or whet
her it was
> Rivette's definitive cut, 'Va savoir +' (approx. 3 hours and
30
> minutes)?
They release the 150 minute version.
Filipe
---
Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.
AntiPop-up UOL - É grátis!
http://antipopup.uol.com.br
5903
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:44pm
Subject: Re: My top 10 of 2003
My Top 10 of 2003
1. Elephant (Gus Van Sant)
2. Son Frere (Patrice Chereau)
3. Porn Theater (Jacques Nolot)
4. Ma Vraie Vie a Rouen (Olivier Duscatel et Jacques
Martineau)
5. Lost in Translation (Sofia Coppola)
6. Dirty Pretty Things (Stephen Frears)
7. The Company (Robert Altman)
8. Laurel Canyon (Lis Chodolenko)
9. The Event (Thom Fitzgerald)
10. Looney Tunes Back in Action (Joe Dante)
--- filipefurtado wrote:
> My Top 14 of 2003:
>
> 1 - The Story of Marie and Julien (Rivette)
> 2 - Mystic River (Eastwood)
> 3 - Vai e Vem (Monteiro)
> 4 - A Talking Picture (Oliveira)
> 5 - Goodbye Dragon Inn (Tsai)
> 6 - O Signo do Caos (Sganzerla)
> 7 - Down with Love (Reed)
> 8 - The Return of the Prodigal Son (Straub/Hulliet)
> 9 - Lost in Translation (Coppola)
> 10 - Raja (Doillon)
> 11 - All the Real Girls (Green)
> 12 - Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle (McG)
> 13 - Looney Tunes: Back in Action (Dante)
> 14 - Strayed (Techine)
>
> Worst by far: Bad Boys 2 (Bay)
>
>
>
> ---
> Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.
> AntiPop-up UOL - É grátis!
> http://antipopup.uol.com.br
>
>
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5904
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:48pm
Subject: Re: Re: Monumental Camp (was definitions of camp)
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
> Is Hutton's over-the-topness campy? David please
> render a
> ruling).
Yes, but not in "Annie Get Your Gun" (which I rather
like)
>"Pal Joey" is pretty awful too without
> being campy at all.
I find it visually quite beautiful. But it's NOT "Pal
Joey."
Somebody should make a film of the REAL Rogers and
Hart "Pal Joey" ASAP.
With Hugh Jackman!
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5905
From: filipefurtado
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 0:26am
Subject: Re: My top 10 of 2003
> 6. Dirty Pretty Things (Stephen Frears)
I really hate this one. And I do like Frears.
Filipe
---
Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.
AntiPop-up UOL - É grátis!
http://antipopup.uol.com.br
5906
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 0:35am
Subject: Andrew R. McIlhenny
Yes, Frederick, I wrote on Story of the Eye. I'll post it when I get
home. ARM is quite a fabulistin the three films I've seen, so I'm not
surprised to hear it continues offscreen.
5907
From: Damien Bona
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 0:36am
Subject: Re: Monumental Camp (was definitions of camp)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> > Is Hutton's over-the-topness campy? David please
> > render a
> > ruling).
>
> Yes, but not in "Annie Get Your Gun" (which I rather
> like)
>
Betty Hutton is NOT camp.
She is genius, she is a force of nature, she is brilliant, she is
goddess.
5908
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 0:43am
Subject: Re: My top 10 of 2003
Really? Why? I found it deeply movie. Very much a
companion piece to "Bloody Kids."
--- filipefurtado wrote:
> > 6. Dirty Pretty Things (Stephen Frears)
>
> I really hate this one. And I do like Frears.
>
> Filipe
>
>
> ---
> Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.
> AntiPop-up UOL - É grátis!
> http://antipopup.uol.com.br
>
>
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5909
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 0:50am
Subject: House of Sand and Fog/foisting
A non-camp melodrama, well-done, with a silhouetted love scene
between the Ben Kingsley character and his wife. Kind of like jury
duty at the beginning, but authentically meoldramatic, and I've
already said I'm a sucker for the genre.
It's early to say much about the director, who is obviously now in
the H'wd mainstream with intent to remain, but I didn't see any false
moves, and he picked a very cinematic subject for his first film: the
various interiors are important to the unfolding of the tale. The
main narrative accomplishment is the shifting interpretations of the
characters which are foisted on the spectator.
BTW, I don't think "non-foisting" is possible, so I'm comfortable
putting it that way. The great model for "non-foisting" is Rohmer,
and I think his "facade of objectivity," as Dan would put it,
conceals complex traps. House... lays a few traps of its own, many
having to do with character/audience perceptions of the Iranian
characters; others with ditto of the Jennifer Rubin character and her
bf.
5910
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 1:36am
Subject: Re: PA
Tag Gallagher wrote:
> I'm from Philadelphia.
25 years ago, my cousin was dating a Philadelphia film buff named Chuck
who knew you and spoke of you with great regard. But I never saw him
again after they broke up.
Elizabeth Anne Nolan wrote:
> Mt. Carmel is about 1 1/2 hours from Scranton, it is in the southwest
> corner of the NORTHEASTERN part of the state.
I was mixing you up with Mt. Lebanon! So that makes three of us from
the anthracite region. - Dan
5911
From: J. Mabe
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 1:56am
Subject: Re: 2003
My Best Seen in 2003 (and made somewhere close to
2003):
1. Star Spangled to Death
2. Friday Night
3. In the Cut
4. Secret Lives of Dentists
5. Stone Reader
6. Spider
7. Mighty Wind
8. An Injury to One
9. Meditations on Revolution V: Foreign City
10. Happiness of the Katakuris, Kill Bill Vol. 1,
Camp, Fl. Oz, Casa de los Babys, Ten, Pink Socks, Love
Liza, Lilya 4-ever, Gerry, In America, Mystic River,
demonlover, Sean Reynard's Videos at the NYUFF
-Josh Mabe
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5912
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 2:04am
Subject: Cukor, Hawks, Sternberg, and camp
> Throughout Cukor, there is a celebration of artifice and role-
> playing, of his actresses engaging in what Sontag has referred to
> as "a state of continual incandescence -- a person being one, very
> intense thing."
Maybe this is an opportunity for me to say what little I have to say
about camp. I have very little natural predisposition to enjoy camp,
and it's only in recent years that I've been entertaining the idea that
it might not always be destructive to the things I like about movies.
Perhaps camp can be an elevator, a way of getting to a heightened state
of expression? Once the audience has been introduced to the largeness
of things via camp signals, the work of art will generally have left
behind some of the trappings of naturalism, which can give the artist
freedom to traffic in more concentrated, more intense modes of
expression. I talked about Cukor's approach to directing actors
recently in similar terms. (This idea was recently advanced by Raymond
Knapp, another UCLA musicologist.)
Unlike David, I accept Mitchell Morris' idea that camp is built on some
form of failure. If Dietrich is reckoned a success in Sternberg's camp
moments (which aren't like anyone else's), it's because she establishes
a bond of knowingness with us that's built upon her limning of
unsuccessful conventions from other movies, or other fiction. Hopefully
that's not all there is to it, but I don't see how to get around the
failure thing.
Which brings us to Hawks, who usually doesn't feel campy to me. When
Bob Steele in THE BIG SLEEP says, "You want me to count three, like a
movie?" he is suggesting a convention without enacting it. If Hawks had
enacted the convention, then taken some humorous distance from it, we
might be in the realm of camp. But he rarely does this, and when he
does, it's generally because he likes the convention.
Whereas Sternberg enacts the convention, but stares in in the face until
it backs off. Could the ending of MOROCCO (my favorite moment in all
cinema, in my favorite movie) be as powerful if Sternberg weren't
somehow building on the shorthand of over-the-top movie melodrama?
Audiences sometimes laugh at the high heels in the sand, but they
usually stop laughing by the time the shot is over, if they're not a
real problem audience.
Hawks once said that Sternberg took tiny story ideas and played them way
up, whereas he took big story ideas and played them way down. It's a
reasonable observation, if perhaps not the whole story. And it sort of
dovetails with what I've been saying about the possibilities for camp in
their movies.
That's all for me, Chance.... - Dan
5913
From: jaketwilson
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 2:33am
Subject: Re: Cukor, Hawks, Sternberg, and camp
Dan Sallitt wrote:
> Unlike David, I accept Mitchell Morris' idea that camp is built on
some
> form of failure.
Couldn't we say art generally is built on some form of failure, and
camp is just a special case of that? Gestures which fall short, or go
too far...
I bow to David's authority, but my impression, as I indicated
earlier, is that camp involves self-consciously defending that which
is acknowledged to be indefensible by any reasonable
(or "reasonable") standard. This is what makes it an existential
stance, or an expression of faith.
JTW
PS: The book I quoted from, NO RESPECT by Andrew Ross, has a chapter
which is a pretty good history of concepts of camp after Sontag. He
takes Warhol as a key figure (the 20th century Oscar Wilde, of
course).
5914
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 3:17am
Subject: story ideas big and small HAWKS source
Recently. I've come this realization of cinema stories on my own, not about Hawks
and Sternberg, but just about cinema in general ... how ever small some stories are.
they are made to seem big; very big stories, made small.
Would you know the HAWKS source?
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> Hawks once said that Sternberg took tiny story ideas and played them way
> up, whereas he took big story ideas and played them way down. It's a
> reasonable observation, if perhaps not the whole story. And it sort of
> dovetails with what I've been saying about the possibilities for camp in
> their movies.
5915
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 3:44am
Subject: Re: story ideas big and small HAWKS source
> Recently. I've come this realization of cinema stories on my own, not about Hawks
> and Sternberg, but just about cinema in general ... how ever small some stories are.
> they are made to seem big; very big stories, made small.
> Would you know the HAWKS source?
Hawks tended to say the same things in many interviews, but you can find
one version of this in Joseph McBride's HAWKS ON HAWKS interview book,
pp. 19-20. - Dan
5916
From: Tag Gallagher
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 4:09am
Subject: Re: PA
Tried to locate Chuck just recently...
Philadelphia used to have some bizarre and strange and occasionally
wonderful all-night movie houses.
My wife's family comes from Milton (near Williamsport).
Dan Sallitt wrote:
> Tag Gallagher wrote:
> > I'm from Philadelphia.
>
> 25 years ago, my cousin was dating a Philadelphia film buff named Chuck
> who knew you and spoke of you with great regard. But I never saw him
> again after they broke up.
5917
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 4:13am
Subject: Re: Re: Cukor, Hawks, Sternberg, and camp
--- jaketwilson wrote:
> He
> takes Warhol as a key figure (the 20th century Oscar
> Wilde, of
> course).
>
>
Andy, in point of fact, made a film entitled "Camp"
(circa 1965-66)
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5918
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 4:22am
Subject: Re: Cukor, Hawks, Sternberg, and camp
--- Dan Sallitt wrote:
>
> Maybe this is an opportunity for me to say what
> little I have to say
> about camp. I have very little natural
> predisposition to enjoy camp,
> and it's only in recent years that I've been
> entertaining the idea that
> it might not always be destructive to the things I
> like about movies.
>
Camp isn't for everyone. Nor is knowledge of camp
essential to any deeper insight about art. It's an
"optional aesthetic extra" as it were.
I'm surprised that there's been such an intensive
discussion of it in here. Of course I've contributed
to that discussion, but not out of any desire to keep
it going, really. I always thought it was just about
to end. Then it went on.
> Perhaps camp can be an elevator, a way of getting to
> a heightened state
> of expression? Once the audience has been
> introduced to the largeness
> of things via camp signals, the work of art will
> generally have left
> behind some of the trappings of naturalism, which
> can give the artist
> freedom to traffic in more concentrated, more
> intense modes of
> expression.
That would be the realm of serious camp: Sternberg,
Eisenstein, Jack Smith, Werner Schroeter, Ulrike
Ottinger.
> Unlike David, I accept Mitchell Morris' idea that
> camp is built on some
> form of failure. If Dietrich is reckoned a success
> in Sternberg's camp
> moments (which aren't like anyone else's), it's
> because she establishes
> a bond of knowingness with us that's built upon her
> limning of
> unsuccessful conventions from other movies, or other
> fiction. Hopefully
> that's not all there is to it, but I don't see how
> to get around the
> failure thing.
Well knowingness doesn't suggest failre at all. Quite
the opposite, in fact.
>
> Which brings us to Hawks, who usually doesn't feel
> campy to me. When
> Bob Steele in THE BIG SLEEP says, "You want me to
> count three, like a
> movie?" he is suggesting a convention without
> enacting it. If Hawks had
> enacted the convention, then taken some humorous
> distance from it, we
> might be in the realm of camp. But he rarely does
> this, and when he
> does, it's generally because he likes the
> convention.
>
Playing with conventions isn't ipso facto camp.
> Whereas Sternberg enacts the convention, but stares
> in in the face until
> it backs off. Could the ending of MOROCCO (my
> favorite moment in all
> cinema, in my favorite movie) be as powerful if
> Sternberg weren't
> somehow building on the shorthand of over-the-top
> movie melodrama?
> Audiences sometimes laugh at the high heels in the
> sand, but they
> usually stop laughing by the time the shot is over,
> if they're not a
> real problem audience.
NOW you've isolated a moment of very important serious
camp. A woman walking off into the desert in high
heels is ridiculous. But Sternberg holds to it in such
a way as to catch the laughter in our throats and
replace it with something else.
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5919
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:04am
Subject: Re: Cukor, Hawks, Sternberg, and camp
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
>
> I'm surprised that there's been such an intensive
> discussion of it in here. Of course I've contributed
> to that discussion, but not out of any desire to keep
> it going, really. I always thought it was just about
> to end. Then it went on.
>
David there has not been an intensive discussion at all and the
main reason is that you've been defusing discussion (serious
discussion which of course is antithetical to camp) by your
relentless very witty dismissive one-liners implying that no one
around here except you has the slightest idea what camp is. Which for
all I know may be true.
>
So I'm putting on my high heels and walking off in the desert
sands.
JPC
>
> __________________________________
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5920
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:04am
Subject: Re: Return of the King (was Daredevil)
Mike, I agree - Return of the King is to all intents and purposes a
gung-ho pro-war movie. Tolkien was writing a fairytale about World
War II, of course, but the trilogy has been dogged or blessed,
depending on your point of view, with contemporary resonances
since "The Two Towers" (yikes!).
The latest installment eventually turns ridiculously hokey, with
seven incrementally bathetic endings. Personally, I love Gollum and
thought the heart went out of the movie when he went down with the
Ring, but I'm a horror fan. Anyway, no one else in the trilogy even
approaches being a character one can feel anything for, except for
Sam, who is made rather touching by Patty Duke's son. (That is Patty
Duke's son, isn't it?)
The redeeming feature for me was the last shot, which refers to the
first lines of The Hobbit, Tolkien's best book - I gather a prequel
is in the works, and it'll be a relief after all this blood and
thunder.
5921
From:
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 0:37am
Subject: Re: My top 10 of 2003
Many of the films I've been most anticipating this year - Rivette's "The
Story of Marie and Julien," de Oliveira's "A Talking Picture," Chabrol's "The
Flower of Evil," Van Sant's "Elephant" - I haven't yet seen, so this list is
highly incomplete. Nonetheless, if I had to make it today, here are my top 17
films + comments on the top 10.
1. Mystic River (Clint Eastwood)
I know of at least a few Eastwood fans who have argued persuasively and
interestingly against this film, but after three viewings I can't help but see it
as a major work - Eastwood's greatest since "A Perfect World." Bill may be
right that much of the picture is carried by the performances, but on the other
hand you have something like the cross-cutting between Bacon, Penn, Linney, and
Harden during that astonishing final parade sequence... talk about great
filmmaking.
2. The Hunted (William Friedkin)
Friedkin sort of lost me during most of the '90s, but he rebounded with two
extraordinary films in the 2000s: "Rules of Engagement" (which Dan turned me on
to) and "The Hunted," an extraordinarily lean, compact film with the best use
of space (the film moves from forests to cities to waterfalls) of any film
I've seen this year.
3. Stuck On You (Bobby Farrelly and Peter Farrelly)
It is the most heartening development I can think of in mainstream American
film of late that the Farrellys - who could have so easily cashed in and made
"There's Something About Mary" ten more times - took the road less traveled and
instead of repeating themselves, branched out into other directions, taking
the sentiment which underlies all of their work into the foreground of "Shallow
Hal" and this film. I'm not even sure that they make 'comedies' anymore;
whatever you want to call it, I can't wait to see where they go next.
4. Kill Bill, Vol. 1 (Quentin Tarantino)
It seems that the popular consensus on this film is that it's an "exercise in
style," but a potentially more fruitful avenue may be found in exploring its
decidedly feminist bent.
5. Anything Else (Woody Allen)
Allen's mise-en-scene has been revitalized by the use of 'Scope in this film;
and as inconsistent as the film may be from a screenplay standpoint, there's
at least three sequences which are as well directed as anything he's ever
done.
6. Looney Tunes: Back In Action (Joe Dante)
I loved what David said about how, in this film, "the REAL text is what would
ordinarily be the subtext of references to everything Joe has ever seen and
loved."
7. All the Ships at Sea (Dan Sallitt)
An immaculately written and directed film. And Edith Meeks gives possibly
the finest performance I've seen all year.
8. The Secret Lives of Dentists (Alan Rudolph)
Rudolph's depiction of growing distance and suspicion in a happy marriage
rivals that of "Eyes Wide Shut" (F.X. Feeney's comparison in Film Comment.)
9. Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle (McG)
In my review, I invoked Howard Hawks in this film's infectious spirit of big
stars making essentially a "home movie" (Thomson's description of "The Big
Sleep.")
10. The Singing Detective (Keith Gordon)
I haven't yet seen the Potter mini-series, so I have the advantage of
approaching this entirely as "a Keith Gordon film." It connects meaningfully with
all of the other films of this highly underrated (and extremely visually
stylish) filmmaker.
11. Gigli (Martin Brest)
12. Cold Mountain (Anthony Minghella)
13. In the Cut (Jane Campion)
14. Hulk (Ang Lee)
15. All the Real Girls (David Gordon Green)
16. New Guy (Bilge Ebiri)
17. Le Divorce (James Ivory)
Peter
5922
From: J. Mabe
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:50am
Subject: Re: My top 10 of 2003
--- ptonguette@a... wrote:
> 7. All the Ships at Sea (Dan Sallitt)
Where can we see Mr. Sallitt's films?
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5923
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:01am
Subject: Re: Re: Cukor, Hawks, Sternberg, and camp
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
> So I'm putting on my high heels and walking off
> in the desert
> sands.
Ah yes. Therte's a Foreign Legion of Cineastes too, J-P!
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5924
From: Tag Gallagher
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:03am
Subject: Re: Re: Cukor, Hawks, Sternberg, and camp
David Ehrenstein wrote:
>
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
> > So I'm putting on my high heels and walking off
> > in the desert
> > sands.
>
> Ah yes. Therte's a Foreign Legion of Cineastes too, J-P!
>
I'm the goat.
5925
From: George Robinson
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:17am
Subject: Best films of 2003
I don't consider my list final until the Iras (our little "rump"
organization of full- and part- and no-time film critics), but as of
December 30, based on 125 films seen this year (using only the ones that
have played theatrically in NYC) here's my tentative list. Keep in mind
that I have seen virtually none of the holiday releases except for "The
Company," which I found quite pleasant but rather thin.
1. The Son - Jean-Luc and Pierre Dardenne
2. Ten - Abbas Kiarostami
3. The Man Without a Past - Aki Kaurismaki
4. Spider - David Cronenberg
5. The Last Letter - Frederick Wiseman
6. Dracula: Pages from a Virgin's Diary - Guy Maddin
7. Friday Night - Claire Denis
8. The Cuckoo - Alexander Rogozhkin
9. Love and Diane - Jennifer Dworkin
10. Marooned in Iraq - Bahman Ghobadi
Honorable Mention: Decasia, Elephant, Le Cercle Rouge, Remembrance of Things
to Come, Flower of Evil, Platform, Spellbound, Bus 174, Morning Sun, Divine
Intervention, Seaside, The Station Agent, The Barbarian Invasions, L'Chayim
Comrade Stalin, In the Mirror of Maya Deren, Tycoon: A New Russian
On the whole, not a bad year at all.
And may all your 2004s be healthy, stress-free and filled with great cinema,
books and sex (but not necessarily in that order).
George Robinson
To find a form that accommodates the
mess, that is the task of the artist.
--Samuel Beckett
5926
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:42am
Subject: Re: My top 10 of 2003
> Where can we see Mr. Sallitt's films?
If you don't mind a bit of a delay (I'm moving this week and likely to
be unsettled for a while), I can make copies for people who don't mind
seeing the film on VHS. - Dan
5927
From: filipefurtado
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:10am
Subject: Re: My top 10 of 2003
> Really? Why? I found it deeply movie. Very much a
> companion piece to "Bloody Kids."
I thought it was simple minded, heavy handed and very unsure
about what sort of film it actually wants to be. Even the
acting looked to me surprising poor for a Frears film (with
exeception of Elijofor who is pretty good).
Filipe
>
> --- filipefurtado wrote:
> > > 6. Dirty Pretty Things (Stephen Frears)
> >
> > I really hate this one. And I do like Frears.
> >
> > Filipe
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.
> > AntiPop-up UOL - É grátis!
> > http://antipopup.uol.com.br
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
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>
---
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5928
From: George Robinson
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 0:32pm
Subject: Very interesting collection of short films on TV5 website
I know that a lot of you can't get TV5, the French station, on your sets --
hey, Jean-Pierre, you don't need to read any further, I assume you get more
of TV5 than you can stand -- but on their website they have a very
interesting selection of short films that, if you have a fast enough modem,
you can watch on-line.
There are several sets of films on AIDS in France, with directors including
Jacquot, Champetier, Klapisch, Heynemann.
http://www.tv5.org/TV5Site/webtv_pourcinema/index.php?rub=1&srub=16
And there is an even more interesting looking set of shorts about AIDS in
Africa, mostly by Ouedrago and Sissoko.
http://www.tv5.org/TV5Site/webtv_pourcinema/index.php?rub=1&srub=1
I don't think there are subtitles on any of them unfortunately, and my
system is too slow to play them effectively (big sigh), but some of you may
find them interesting.
Happy and healthy 2004 to all,
George Robinson
To find a form that accommodates the
mess, that is the task of the artist.
--Samuel Beckett
5929
From: George Robinson
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 0:38pm
Subject: A PS for those of you who DO get TV5
A few intersting films in the new year:
Falbalas -- Jacques Becker (1944)
Le Prince du Pacifique -- Alain Corneau
Three films by Michel Deville:
La Femme en Bleu (1973)
Le Paltoquet (1986)
Aux Petits Bonheurs (1994)
I'm rather fond of several of Deville's films (La Lectrice, Dossier 51, La
Voyage en Douce) and thought his new one, which is playing the Walter Reade
as part of the NY Jewish Film Festival, is quite nice.
Enjoy the festivities,
g
To find a form that accommodates the
mess, that is the task of the artist.
--Samuel Beckett
5930
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 2:14pm
Subject: Re: My top 10 of 2003
--- filipefurtado wrote:
> I thought it was simple minded, heavy handed and
> very unsure
> about what sort of film it actually wants to be.
> Even the
> acting looked to me surprising poor for a Frears
> film (with
> exeception of Elijofor who is pretty good).
>
Not at all. The fact that Sergei Lopez is "the
villain" doesn't make for a simple film. Among other
things it deals with the extremely decpetive quality
of appearances. The hotel looks to be fairly swank.
But is it? In fact is it a hotel at all?It's actually
nothing more than a front for a series of clandestine
activities we find out about in the course of the
narrative. We have to think our way through it
carefully at every step. Our "hero" is never who he
quite seems to be from one moment to the next -- even
though our heroine remains fairly Gish-like throughout.
__________________________________
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5931
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 2:58pm
Subject: Re: Return of the King characters
I agree with you; Gollum had enough character for two (knew he was a split
personality from the start) and SAM was the most conflicted and sympathetic in his
role...plus he got the girl, more Hobbits to follow!
I have never read the books but I felt a lot of the special effects were in service to
nothing particularly dramatic, except maybe when the eagles do their pickups.
I thought the 'release the prisoners' scene original for numbers, although I'm sure I've
seen it done before for solitary 'bodies.'
I was most disappointed that nothing was done with the army of dead soldiers (my
favorite special effect) other
than a green swarm swath covering the battle field. I would have liked some
individual
encounters with the dead soldiers becoming more real as they battle on, and perhaps
gaining 'eternal life' if slain. It would have been fun to see the look on the Orc's face
when they couldn't even see who was fighting them.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666" wrote:
> Personally, I love Gollum and
> thought the heart went out of the movie when he went down with the
> Ring, but I'm a horror fan. Anyway, no one else in the trilogy even
> approaches being a character one can feel anything for, except for
> Sam,
5932
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 3:31pm
Subject: Re: Cukor, Hawks, Sternberg, and camp
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Tag Gallagher wrote:
>
>
> David Ehrenstein wrote:
>
> >
> > --- jpcoursodon wrote:
> > > So I'm putting on my high heels and walking off
> > > in the desert
> > > sands.
> >
> > Ah yes. Therte's a Foreign Legion of Cineastes too, J-P!
> >
>
> I'm the goat.
Just a thought: would Amy be less "ridiculous" (not my word, BTW)
if she walked off wearing sensible shoes?
The French release title was wonderfully campy (as they often
were in those days): "Coeurs brules" (should be an accent on that
second "e")
JPC
5933
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 3:59pm
Subject: Re: Re: Cukor, Hawks, Sternberg, and camp
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> Just a thought: would Amy be less "ridiculous"
> (not my word, BTW)
> if she walked off wearing sensible shoes?
>
Not possible to imagine Marlene Dietrich in anything
"sensible."
>
>
__________________________________
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Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
5934
From:
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 11:49am
Subject: Special Effects: Film and Paper
There is a huge tradition of science fiction art. SF magazines have always
been profusely illustrated. SF books usually have spectacular cover art, as
well. There are tens of thousands of pages of sf comic strips and books. Much of
this material was created by the top sf illustrators of the day, men and women
who had almost unlimited imagaination.
It costs almost nothing to create an sf world on paper, as a painting. Just
the cost of the artists' time, and some paints and paper.
Plus there are almost no limitations on subject matter - just the artist's
imagination. Paintings created in the 1920's by Frank R. Paul are far more
imaginative than anything in today's state-of-the-art cinema.
All over the world, millions of people are paying money and time to see "The
Lord of the Rings". Yet it is primitive and crude compared to such 1950's
magazine illustrators as Ed Emshwiller (also a famous experimental filmmaker) or
such 1950's comic books as "Mystery in Space" and "Strange Adventures".
I don't get it.
Are people ignorant that there is something infinitely better out there for
them to see?
As Auntie Mame said: "Life is a banquet. And most poor fools are starving to
death!"
Open your minds and eyes, and let your imaginations soar!
Mike Grost
5935
From: filipefurtado
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:08pm
Subject: Re: My top 10 of 2003
> >
> Not at all. The fact that Sergei Lopez is "the
> villain" doesn't make for a simple film. Among other
> things it deals with the extremely decpetive quality
> of appearances. The hotel looks to be fairly swank.
> But is it? In fact is it a hotel at all?It's actually
> nothing more than a front for a series of clandestine
> activities we find out about in the course of the
> narrative. We have to think our way through it
> carefully at every step. Our "hero" is never who he
> quite seems to be from one moment to the next -- even
> though our heroine remains fairly Gish-like throughout.
I woild agree with your description of the Hotel for the
first half hour or so (when the film still had some promise)
and I think Elijofor carachter is pretty obvious all the time.
Filipe
>
> __________________________________
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> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
> http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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5936
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:14pm
Subject: Re: A PS for those of you who DO get TV5
> Falbalas -- Jacques Becker (1944)
I think this film is a masterpiece. It's actually my favorite Becker,
by a hair over about five others.
> La Femme en Bleu (1973)
> Le Paltoquet (1986)
> Aux Petits Bonheurs (1994)
I'm a big big Deville fan, and just bought the DVD of LA FEMME EN BLEU
that was released recently. Do you know if any of the Deville films
have English subtitles? - Dan
5937
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:20pm
Subject: La politique d'Effects
Since ER has raised the interesting question of critiquing FX,
followed by Mystery Mike's post - which did not fall on deaf ears: I
have a complete collection of Galaxy through the 60s, Mike - let me
add that the killer elephants in Return were very well managed, and
that the creators of Gollum deserve a Gollum-shaped statuette in
February themselves (it's February now, isn't it?). Just as the CGI
bottle that passed from ghost to human hands, unnoticed by critics,
in Casper, and the totally-ignored Dinosaurs (CGI characters in a
real landscape for a whole movie) each expanded the canvas on which
films would be made in the future, Gollum will have a huge progeny,
beginning with The Hulk, where Ang Lee took advantage of the new
technology, perfected after the completion of principal photography,
to do the closeups himself - a development to which this group in
particular can't be indifferent.
Mike, I don't believe that the people making the Star Wars films are
unaware of the scifi illustration tradition, which their films extend
very imaginatively at times. The sets alone were worth the price of
admission in Phantom Menace. And Spielberg's recent incursions into
scifi both contain sequences that gladdened the eye of this old paper
scifi fan, at least, although the effects in Minority Report struck
me as more Astounding/Analog than Galaxy. Star Wars is definitely
Galaxy, the champ in that department.
5938
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:09pm
Subject: Dirty Pretty Things
>>I thought it was simple minded, heavy handed and
>>very unsure
>>about what sort of film it actually wants to be.
>>Even the
>>acting looked to me surprising poor for a Frears
>>film (with
>>exeception of Elijofor who is pretty good).
>
> Not at all. The fact that Sergei Lopez is "the
> villain" doesn't make for a simple film. Among other
> things it deals with the extremely decpetive quality
> of appearances. The hotel looks to be fairly swank.
> But is it? In fact is it a hotel at all?It's actually
> nothing more than a front for a series of clandestine
> activities we find out about in the course of the
> narrative. We have to think our way through it
> carefully at every step. Our "hero" is never who he
> quite seems to be from one moment to the next -- even
> though our heroine remains fairly Gish-like throughout.
I'm afraid I'm with Felipe, and God knows I love BLOODY KIDS and many
other (older) Frears films. But this one had a cute, contrived quality
for me. Somehow it didn't seem to care about exploring its characters,
even though it is ostensibly about their eccentricities and
interactions. - Dan
5939
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:38pm
Subject: Ten Best of 2003
I didn't get to any festivals this year, and due to overwork and my
welcome gig at The Economist, I was obliged to focus on English-
language films for the first time since 1983, when I worked at
Boxoffice. But this was a better year for the home team than '83. In
no order:
1. Va savoir - almost a H'wd film in its present form. I hope we get
to see it with Pirandello put back in.
2. Spider
3. The Hulk
4. Stuck on You
5. All the Ships at Sea
6. Georges Bataille's Story of the Eye
7. Elephant
8. House of Sand and Fog
9. Looney Tunes: Back in Action
10.O Fantasma (released in LA, already seen at Venice)
Retrospective discovery: The Half-Breed, shown at Cinecom. Although
still incomplete, this restored version of a print found in Rohauer's
collection is the best silent Dwan I've seen by far. Produced by
Griffith, written by Anita Loos, shot in a forest and a western town
built in a atural setting, it is lightyears better than Robin Hood
and The Iron Mask, or even Manhandled, and makes me yearn to see more
work of this period by Dwan.
5940
From: Craig Keller
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:45pm
Subject: "promo clips"
A forward from a friend, which I thought some might find interesting:
cmk.
> From: ben baumes
> Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:47:09 AM America/New_York
> To: Gregory.Mitchell@m...
> Cc: peter.symuleski@m..., evillights@m...
>
> right..the quote:
>
> The oft-repeated but still-juicy line from Godard: "The history of
> cinema is boys photographing girls. The history of history is boys
> burning girls at the stake." You can confirm the second sentence by
> watching TV for three minutes. To confirm the first sentence, watch
> the Cat Power videos available here at the Matador website.
>
> I don't know who Brett Vapnek is, but she's internalized the
> not-very-hidden fact that Chan Marshall is beautiful like few people
> are ever beautiful. She does what director Patrick Daughters does in
> the "Maps" video for the Yeah Yeah Yeahs--lets the remarkable looking
> people provide remarkability. Each Cat Power video is better than the
> previous one because each song is better than the previous one and
> Marshall is more beautiful in each successive video. (At this rate,
> she will soon become a small dwarf star.) "He War," a song that drives
> me bananas when I can't see her, is almost unbearable as an actual
> sequence of moving images. The bronzed paeans to Jean Seberg and Anna
> Karina and Garbo tumble through my head, but they don't stay long.
> There is little to say except "I was hoping to see somebody who looked
> like that one day." And I have.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5941
From: Tristan
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:04pm
Subject: Re: My top 10 of 2003
I didn't really have any requirements for what kind of films could
make the list. If it seemed like it belonged, it made the list. It
will likely change as I see more films(Big Fish, Fog of War, Ten, The
Son, Triplets of Belleville, Dogville, Brown Bunny, etc.) Enjoy!
1. Elephant
2. Kill Bill: Volume 1
3. Mystic River
4. Friday Night
5. Ichi the Killer
6. Lost in Translation
7. Man Without a Past
8. Lord of the Rings: Return of the King
9. The Simple Life (TV)
10. All the Real Girls
If I included revivals, Au Hasard Balthazar would be number one, but
it doesn't seem like it should share a list with these much inferior
films.
5942
From: Sam Wells
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:45pm
Subject: Ten Best of 2003
The film of the year was the By Brakhage DVD, and the tribute shows
held throughout the year. 40 years after "Dog Star Man" revolutionized
what montage could be, 95% of cinema still has not caught up. "Love
Song" and the unfortunately titled "Delicacies of Molten Horror
Synapse" bring previously unseen senses of moving spatial depth to the
abstract expressionist tradition to which Brakhage introduced time and
motion.
In an age of Wagnerian cinema and Wagnerian politics, Brakhage's
lyricism and ability to even do the epic work with lyrical means almost
seems to make him the most political filmmaker ever -- not defined by
*his* politics, but the politics of a cinema that can or could be made
in Boulder Colorado, New York City, Baghdad or Beijing; not by
corporations or states, but by filmmakers themselves.
Maybe the most perfect 6 minutes of cinema in 2003 was Jim Jennings
"Elements" seen at the NYFF.
I'm easily a year behind everyone else here, as I bring this movie into
2003 (but I'm a filmmaker not a critic or cineaste) so excuse me if I
say that for me, the narrative/dramatic work in the past year that
impressed me the most was Tsai Ming-Liang's "What Time Is It There"
for it's intensity, it's deep sense of the erotic imagination and the
unfulfilled, and it's critique of the dogmatically spiritual that
becomes perhaps, no less than a film by Bresson, spiritual itself.
-Sam Wells
5943
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:49pm
Subject: Re: Ten Best of 2003
--- hotlove666 wrote:
> 10.O Fantasma (released in LA, already seen at
> Venice)
>
I've been thinking about "O Fantasma" a lot as I saw
it a few years back at "Outfest" was rather taken back
by it. Saw it again this year and "Picture This" sent
me the DVD which has commentary explaining how it was
made, plus the interview and screen test with the
leading man.
This is a very bizarre film, and introducing it via
plot" or"characters" in a forum like this is rather
difficult as it would take pages to describe. So for
the moment I highly reccomend that everyone get
themselevs a copy of the DVD and take a look at it. Be
warned -- it's sexually graphic. But in its own
obsessive way it deals with issues relating to
"performance" like no other film I've seen since --
"Performance."
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5944
From: Tristan
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:18pm
Subject: Re: "promo clips"
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
wrote:
>
> A forward from a friend, which I thought some might find
interesting:
>
> cmk.
You forgot to include the URL for Matador:
http://www.matadorrecords.com/cat_power/music.html
I think it would be interesting to analyze the auteurs of the music
video(or promo clip). The names I would throw out at first are Jonze,
Cunningham, and Gondry. Any thoughts from anyone?
5945
From: Robert Keser
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:55pm
Subject: Dozen Best of 2003
The year supplied an embarrassment of cinematic riches,
in my experience. Whittling my list down to a dozen is
downright difficult, but here goes:
1. TEN
2. GOODBYE DRAGON INN
3. LE FILS
4. DEMONLOVER
5. PLATFORM
6. OASIS
7. CRIMSON GOLD
8. DRACULA, PAGES FROM A VIRGIN´S DIARY
9. SPIDER
10. A TALKING PICTURE
11. TRIPLETS OF BELLEVILLE
12. ETRE ET AVOIR
Close runners-up: ELEPHANT, VENDREDI SOIR, IRREVERSIBLE,
THE MAGDALENE SISTERS, RAISING VICTOR VARGAS, BAD SANTA,
BUS 174, PORN THEATRE, STUCK ON YOU, CAPTURING THE FRIEDMANS
Contenders: AMERICAN SPLENDOR, ANGELS IN AMERICA,
BIG FISH, THE GOOD THIEF, DIRTY PRETTY THINGS, 21 GRAMS,
LOONEY TUNES: BACK IN ACTION, 28 DAYS LATER, IN THIS WORLD,
THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED, BUFFALO SOLDIERS,
LOST IN TRANSLATION, PISTOL OPERA, UNKNOWN PLEASURES
Astoundingly overrated: THE DANCER UPSTAIRS
--Robert Keser
5946
From: Eric Henderson
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 9:40pm
Subject: Re: Halloween III
--- ptonguette@a... wrote:
> I believe our own Eric Henderson is the biggest horror film buff
around here,
> so perhaps he'd like to chip in with some of his favorites.
---------------------------
This must count as one of the most tardy responses ever, but here's
what I filed away on a different message board right around Halloween
with a few additions...
º My very favorite anthology horror film is TALES FROM THE CRYPT
(Freddie Francis, 1972)... but practically any other Amicus anthology
(THE HOUSE THAT DRIPPED BLOOD, ASYLUM, DR. TERROR'S HOUSE OF HORRORS
or VAULT OF HORROR) captures the same campy (God, how the discussions
here have made me trepidatious of using that term!), British-autumnal
atmosphere. The grandfather of these films, DEAD OF NIGHT, is also
worth checking out. And Mario Bava's Italian anthology BLACK SABBATH.
KWAIDAN is a very slow mover, but has some great sequences,
especially the one updated in the late-'80s TALES FROM THE DARKSIDE
movie. ("You promised you wouldn't tell!")
º the 1982 duo of POLTERGEIST (Tobe Hooper) and (yet one more
anthology film) CREEPSHOW (George A. Romero) has always been and
always will be the elite of Halloween horror for me, and I'm so glad
that you mentioned the latter, Peter. Both had arguably far more
important films in their bodies of work (TEXAS CHAINSAW
MASSACRE, 'SALEM'S LOT, THE FUNHOUSE for the former; the DEAD trilogy
and MARTIN for the latter), but these two will always take precedence
in nostalgia-drenched October. Incidentally, I haven't decided which
film/director initiated the trademark shock-moment lighting of garish
reds against blues (KWAIDAN actually has this in a few sequences, as
does much of Bava's color work), but Romero's deployment of the color-
scheme is truly remarkable.
º GOD TOLD ME TO (Larry Cohen, 1976)... the apotheosis of
underground-mainstream edge-skirting genre romps, of what I've seen
so far.
º THE FURY (Brian De Palma, 1978)... but y'all knew that. Also,
PHANTOM OF THE PARADISE and CARRIE.
º THE LEOPARD MAN (Jaques Tourneur, 1947)... I WALKED WITH A ZOMBIE,
CAT PEOPLE, THE SEVENTH VICTIM, and THE GHOST SHIP are all great too.
I can't put my finger on why I find myself gravitating towards
LEOPARD, of all of them. Perhaps I think it uses off-screen space as
a source of terror almost more effectively than the rest of them. The
sequence where the flour-buying daughter begs her mother to open the
door is every bit as terrifying as THE HAUNTING.
º THE FOG (John Carpenter, 1980)... The mood of this one is really
dead-on for Halloween. So too, incidentally, are HALLOWEEN,
CHRISTINE, and THE THING.
º THE SHINING (Stanley Kubrick, 1980)... a very good year for
horror, FRIDAY THE 13TH aside.
º THE TENANT (Roman Polanski, 1976)... though perhaps not as
seamless as RO's BABY or raw as REPULSION, it's a great deal creepier
and more perverted. THE FEARLESS VAMPIRE KILLERS is right up there
with YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN for horror movie spoofs.
º SUSPIRIA(Dario Argento, 1977)... my favorite Argento movie is a
tug-of-war between TENEBRAE, PHENOMENA and INFERNO and this one
usually gets the runner-up position. But for Halloween, this one is
unquestionably the pick of the lot.
º The almost-Argento LA CHIESA (Michele Soavi) is also great. In
fact, I think it truly rivals any film by Argento or Bava. The view
of organized religion as a feeble defense against original sin is
straight out of any Gothic potboiler, but Soavi ups the ante by
focusing instead on the slightly vampire-like way ordinary people
feed off of others' misery. The group of people trapped in the church
(like some disaster movie) end up either possessed or insane or both,
but in an off way Soavi seems to imply (through simple tossed-off
moments) the tensions that both fuel and eventually terminate the sub-
groups' relationships (old married couple and the old-time misogyny
of the husband; the homosexual-experimental moment between two
pubescent boys and the Pandora's box it has opened). It's a
fantastically obtuse but extremely rewarding film.
I could go on and on and get into some other oddities like Bava's
PLANET OF THE VAMPIRES, Fulci's THE BEYOND, Jackson's MEET THE
FEEBLES, Lustig's UNCLE SAM, Hardy's THE WICKER MAN (which I still
find a much more interesting look at Christian pig-headedness than
The Exorcist) and Rose's PAPERHOUSE. But Halloween's long gone.
-- Eric
5947
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 9:46pm
Subject: Re: La politique d'Effects
Some random comments, meant to warn: more tangential than my usual comments
Special effects with cgi people characters playing live actors is not that far away. I
thought the princess in SHREK was as least as good as some cardboard people we
see. Certainly GOLLUM and HULK are real facial improvements. In a regular suit and
tie they would hardly be noticed.
Special effects of cgi of masses of people will take longer to get right. I just watched
(thanks to all your recommends) THE GREAT RACE and the spontaneity and variety
and probably something with lighting from different angles create an image that is
not easily generated by computer. I think part of the reason for this is that masses of
people move at different speeds. Indeed, I think there is something still yet
unaddressed about the speed of movement of characters in movies. I suspect that on
the big screen, walking takes a a different look than in regular life and so in filming,
actors make adjustments. I never read anything about it, but for some reason, I pay
attention to the speed of movement of characters (just for regular sittting, standing,
walking). This variable speed of movement will be harder to get correct for the
masses and crowds of people (extras) that cgi seems prone for use.
There is something inherent in the danger of real life stunt scenes that seems lost in
cgi scenes. When the horses are being reined in in STAGECOACH during the Indian
attack, there is footage of a fellow with his nose almost biting the dust while trying to
control those horses. I know it is a stunt, but as the commercial now says, these
fellows are risking their lives for the footage; not so with cgi, however many times a
computer console might crash.
When we see footage of old crashes (Keaton's train), explosions, etc; or even
Harryhausen's work we know the painstaking effort for those few shots that are ever
so difficult to duplicate; not so with cgi, however many times a computer console
might crash.
There is something inherently wrong with the directing / editing when I see cgi of a
facade, massive and imposing and that's all I see. It would be like standing in front of
some landmark and never going inside after spending $5-10 and a few hours to get
there. I think it was in LOTR (1) where there was this huge brown colored mill set and
all you saw was the outside...wouldn't happen in a real studio where other angles of
the set were built.
For me, make all the effects you want, but incorporate them into the story in the
same way that backstory needs to be incorporated into characters. That's where the
real talent in special effects in the movies will be found, for as mentioned, there is
already a wealth of two-dimensional paper characters out there. I've always been
aware of the "comic' world and last August attended my first SD Comic Con
Convention (saw AMERICAN SPLENDOR with Harvey and family in tow -- surprised not
to see it on many list) and already signed up for next year.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666" wrote:
> Since ER has raised the interesting question of critiquing FX,
> followed by Mystery Mike's post - which did not fall on deaf ears: I
> have a complete collection of Galaxy through the 60s, Mike - let me
> add that the killer elephants in Return were very well managed, and
> that the creators of Gollum deserve a Gollum-shaped statuette in
> February themselves (it's February now, isn't it?). Just as the CGI
> bottle that passed from ghost to human hands, unnoticed by critics,
> in Casper, and the totally-ignored Dinosaurs (CGI characters in a
> real landscape for a whole movie) each expanded the canvas on which
> films would be made in the future, Gollum will have a huge progeny,
> beginning with The Hulk, where Ang Lee took advantage of the new
> technology, perfected after the completion of principal photography,
> to do the closeups himself - a development to which this group in
> particular can't be indifferent.
>
> Mike, I don't believe that the people making the Star Wars films are
> unaware of the scifi illustration tradition, which their films extend
> very imaginatively at times. The sets alone were worth the price of
> admission in Phantom Menace. And Spielberg's recent incursions into
> scifi both contain sequences that gladdened the eye of this old paper
> scifi fan, at least, although the effects in Minority Report struck
> me as more Astounding/Analog than Galaxy. Star Wars is definitely
> Galaxy, the champ in that department.
5948
From: Frederick M. Veith
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 9:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: "promo clips"
Even if restricted to pop music (which I presume is what you have in
mind) any such analysis would need to look far beyond the mainstream of
MTV and pay attention to the work of artists who don't work primarily in
music video production, like Bruce Conner.
As for the three you mention, until his recent White Stripes videos
(at least two of which are wonderful), I've found Gondry's work to be
almost uniformly terrible. (Actually I like his Kylie Minogue video
somewhat as well.) I especially dislike the Bjork videos, and I actually
like her music (up to a point). Jonze is a mixed bag, though I think his
music videos are vastly superior to his feature films. I am grateful to
him for letting Christopher Walken dance in 'Weapon of Choice'. Any such
occassion should be welcomed. I don't really have an opinion of
Cunningham's work, but of the three he seems less desparate to prove how
clever he is.
The problem with privileging directors such as the ones you named is that
they draw too much attention to themselves, overwhelming the songs almost
to the point of effacing them. There are a great many very good music
videos which don't go so far out of their way to call attention to
themselves as Art, which to my mind strike a more equitable balance in
this regard.
As a side note, Wong Kar-wai made a video for DJ Shadow which, in a way,
seems quite a bit better than almost anything by Jonze, et al. On the
other hand, it reduces his style so purely to advertising that I've had
trouble watching his films with an unjaundiced eye since (see also his
work for BMW). Except for Happy Together, which I think is his only
unquestionably great film.
The video can be seen at:
http://www.ifilm.com/filmdetail?ifilmid=2447081
Fred.
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003, Tristan wrote:
> I think it would be interesting to analyze the auteurs of the music
> video(or promo clip). The names I would throw out at first are Jonze,
> Cunningham, and Gondry. Any thoughts from anyone?
5949
From: Eric Henderson
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 9:50pm
Subject: Top few films of '03-'00
Thanks so much to all of you for lists of must-see films. They should
keep me busy until '06.
Among the best films I saw in '03 for the first time that are within
a reasonably recent past (in vague descding order).
GERRY
RUSSIAN ARK
ESTHER KAHN
TEN
LA COMMUNE (PARIS, 1871)
KILL BILL, VOL. 1
MYSTIC RIVER
CHIHWASEON
Also the re-releases (or whatever) of EYES WITHOUT A FACE and MEDEA.
Most looking forward to seeing UNKNOWN PLEASURES, PLATFORM, ELEPHANT,
THE SON, and the (very) mini-retrospective of Chris Marker at Oak
Street which will include REMEMBERANCE OF THINGS TO COME.
-- Eric
5950
From: Eric Henderson
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 9:56pm
Subject: Re: "promo clips"
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Frederick M. Veith"
wrote:
> As for the three you mention, until his recent White Stripes videos
> (at least two of which are wonderful), I've found Gondry's work to
be
> almost uniformly terrible. (Actually I like his Kylie Minogue video
> somewhat as well.)
Shoot. Gondry's always been one of my favorites, though I admit he's
basically limited to two tricks. But what tricks! First, his ability
to create vertigo through willfully depriving the viewers of their
bearings by playing around with a sense of gravity or physical
dimensions is faultless. And second, I highly value his fascination
with infinity (the Kylie Minogue video) and visual rhythm ("Around
the World," "Star Guitar").
5951
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:05pm
Subject: AMERICAN SPLENDOR
warned you this would be tangential...talking to myself here.
I liked AMERICAN SPLENDOR but felt it had a fatal production flaw that was fixable
(otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it to the producer at Comic Con in August well
before it's release).
The full screen cartoon stills of 'original' frames of Harvey's work, well recognized by
American Splendor readers, could not be fully appreciated in the few moments that
they were aired in the movie. I'm sure some regular readers had no difficulty reading
the text and catching the humor, but for novices (and new fans) in the audience it was
just not enough time. There was no time to appreciate the man's talent, which is
what the movie was about. Sure his life was pretty much there to see, but this is one
time I wanted to see the imitation of life, ie, give me a chance to see the comics!
(this problem is not unlike the sound / dialogue editing problem spoken about
previously. People who are so familiar with the material do not know what is needed
time or information-wise for the audience to appreciate the material)
Unfortunately, I will have to wait until I can freeze frame the image at home for full
enjoyment of the movie which should have had a stronger reception outside the
comic stream.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth Anne Nolan" wrote:
> I've always been aware of the "comic' world and last August attended my first SD
Comic Con Convention (saw AMERICAN SPLENDOR with Harvey and family in tow --
surprised not to see it on many list) and already signed up for next year.
>
5952
From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:09pm
Subject: Re: Dozen Best of 2003 -- BUS 174
I strongly recommend to everyone who liked this film -- BUS 174 -- to watch
O Prisioneiro da Grade de Ferro (Auto-retratos)/ The Prisoner Of The Iron
Bars (Self-portraits).
ruy
Next to it, Bus is just somewhat nice and cozy.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Keser"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 6:55 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Dozen Best of 2003
> The year supplied an embarrassment of cinematic riches,
> in my experience. Whittling my list down to a dozen is
> downright difficult, but here goes:
>
> 1. TEN
> 2. GOODBYE DRAGON INN
> 3. LE FILS
> 4. DEMONLOVER
> 5. PLATFORM
> 6. OASIS
> 7. CRIMSON GOLD
> 8. DRACULA, PAGES FROM A VIRGIN´S DIARY
> 9. SPIDER
> 10. A TALKING PICTURE
> 11. TRIPLETS OF BELLEVILLE
> 12. ETRE ET AVOIR
>
> Close runners-up: ELEPHANT, VENDREDI SOIR, IRREVERSIBLE,
> THE MAGDALENE SISTERS, RAISING VICTOR VARGAS, BAD SANTA,
> BUS 174, PORN THEATRE, STUCK ON YOU, CAPTURING THE FRIEDMANS
>
> Contenders: AMERICAN SPLENDOR, ANGELS IN AMERICA,
> BIG FISH, THE GOOD THIEF, DIRTY PRETTY THINGS, 21 GRAMS,
> LOONEY TUNES: BACK IN ACTION, 28 DAYS LATER, IN THIS WORLD,
> THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED, BUFFALO SOLDIERS,
> LOST IN TRANSLATION, PISTOL OPERA, UNKNOWN PLEASURES
>
> Astoundingly overrated: THE DANCER UPSTAIRS
>
> --Robert Keser
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/a_film_by/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
5953
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:27pm
Subject: Revised 2003 List
Having omitted two films I loved through sheer inadvertance, here is
my updated in-any-order ten best list:
1. Lost in Translation
2. Spider
3. The Hulk
4. Stuck on You
5. All the Ships at Sea
6. Georges Bataille's Story of the Eye
7. Elephant
8. Russian Ark
9. Looney Tunes: Back in Action
10.O Fantasma (released in LA, already seen at Venice)
I replaced a minor Rivette with a major (Sofia) Coppola, and one
Russian with another - I still like House of Sand and Fog quite a
bit, but I like Russian Ark quite a bit more.
5954
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: "promo clips"
> Except for Happy Together, which I think is his only
> unquestionably great film.
Yeah, I think it's by far his best too. That's sort of a minority view,
though, isn't it?
I'm not up to date on music videos, but I used to like the work of that
fellow Mondino, who did Ferry's SLAVE TO LOVE and Henley's THE BOYS OF
SUMMER. He's a conservative choice, as he's one of the few music video
directors who was into old-fashioned camera values: an Ophuls fan could
appreciate him. I'm actually interested in the more common, more
fragmented way of making music videos, but I never got to the point of
picking out auteurs. - Dan
5955
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:37pm
Subject: Re: Cukor, Hawks, Sternberg, and camp
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Just a thought: would Amy be less "ridiculous"
> > (not my word, BTW)
> > if she walked off wearing sensible shoes?
> >
> Not possible to imagine Marlene Dietrich in anything
> "sensible."
> >
> >
> I knew you were going to say that; and of course you're right.
But for the sake of discussion: what's deemed "ridiculous"? the high
heels or the act itself? Shall we say that the act is (melo)
dramatique, the heels make it campy?
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
> http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
5956
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 11:43pm
Subject: Re: Re: Cukor, Hawks, Sternberg, and camp
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
> > I knew you were going to say that; and of
> course you're right.
> But for the sake of discussion: what's deemed
> "ridiculous"? the high
> heels or the act itself? Shall we say that the act
> is (melo)
> dramatique, the heels make it campy?
> >
Bingo!
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
5957
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 11:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: "promo clips"
--- Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > Except for Happy Together, which I think is his
> only
> > unquestionably great film.
>
> Yeah, I think it's by far his best too. That's sort
> of a minority view,
> though, isn't it?
>
It certainly is, because as much as I love it I
consider "In the Mood for Love" to be equally great.
Wong's cinema creates so much pleasure, sopalpably
that it's an embarassment of riches. I can watch his
films over and over again -- much in the way I can
listen over and over to a favorite song.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
5958
From: Craig Keller
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 0:04am
Subject: Re: Re: "promo clips"
> I think it would be interesting to analyze the auteurs of the music
> video(or promo clip). The names I would throw out at first are Jonze,
> Cunningham, and Gondry. Any thoughts from anyone?
Well, they're certainly the three that have just had the triple-DVD
retrospective thing going on... All pretty worthy too. The video by
Cunningham for Aphex Twin's "Windowlicker" is mindblowing, but so is
the single (probably in my top three singles of the '90s -- along with
"Common People" and "Paranoid Android" -- or four, if you want to count
"Nightswimming" as well). Thomas Vinterberg did the Blur "No Distance
Left to Run" video which I'm pretty fond of... I much prefer the
aesthetic of shot-cut/shot-cut/shot-cut than the sort of CG-miasma
Janusz-Kaminski-esque polished-steel cinematography thing. I'll try to
think about what other videos I think are really great... well, Björk's
"Cocoon" and "Pagan Poetry" are also very beautiful, but I can't
remember who did them. (a trip to bjork.com/unity would answer this)
cmk.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5959
From:
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:30pm
Subject: Re: "promo clips"
The 80's video directors with the strongest creative personalities include:
Steve Barron
Marty Callner
Peter Cristopherson
Jay Dubin
Duncan Gibbins
Bob Giraldi
Kevin Godley and Lol Creme
Brian Grant
Edd Griles
Graham Herman, Richard Perry
Rupert Hines
Tobe Hooper
Stephen R. Johnson
Paul Justman
Danny Kleinman
Mick Kleber
Mary Lambert
Peter Maas
Albert Magnoli
David Mallet
Simon Milne
Jean-Baptiste Mondino
Russell Mulcahy
Tim Pope
Dave Robinson
Zybigniew Rybczynski
Peter Sinclair
Julien Temple
D. J. Webster
Jim Yukich
Plus, whoever directed:
Rainbow - Street of Dreams
Men at Work - Down Under
(If someone knows who did these, please post the info!)
Many of the above directors have distinctive personal visual styles.
They are a lot more interesting than many contemporary feature film directors.
Mike Grost
The union of the snake is on the rise!
5960
From: programming
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 1:28am
Subject: Book (and More) List
Hello All,
For the past couple of years (once or twice a year) I've been compiling and
posting to the Frameworks listserve a list of
books/catalogues/monographs/etc. that I've acquired. All of these are on
experimental, documentary, ethnographic, or just miscellaneous films/videos.
Includes some DVDs and CD-ROMS as well.
Though it's not specifically applicable to this list, thought you might be
interested (well, it does include items related to some great experimental
auteurs! - and two of them include writings by Fred Camper)
Best,
Patrick
****************************************************************************
Andy Warhol's Blow Job
by Roy Grundmann
Temple University Press, 2003
ISBN: 1-56639-971-8
Avant-Garde Film: Forms, Themes and Passions
by Michael O'Pray
Wallflower Press, 2003
ISBN: 1-903364-56-6
Film Art Phenomena
by Nicky Hamlyn
British Film Institute, 2003
ISBN: 0-85170-972-9
Visionary Film: The American Avant-Garde, 1943-2000 (Third Edition)
by P. Adams Sitney
Oxford University Press, 2002
ISBN: 0-19-514886-X
(new edition re-instates the Markopoulos chapter cut from the second edition
and includes a new chapter on post 1978 work)
Allan King: Filmmaker
ed. Seth Feldman
Toronto International Film Festival, 2002
ISBN: 0-9689132-1-0
The Undercut Reader: Critical Writings on Artists' Film and Video
ed. Nina Danino and Michael Maziere
Wallflower Press, 2003
ISBN: 1-903364-47-7
Cine-Ethnography: Jean Rouch
ed. Steven Feld
University of Minnesota Press, 2003
ISBN: 0-8166-4104-8
Lux Open 2003: A DNet Project
Lux (London), 2003
(exhibition catalogue)
Halle_Fur_Kunst, Luneburg: Temporary Occupations and Other Double Binds
by Katya Sander and Alex Villar
Revolver (Frankfurt am Main), 2002
(exhibition catalogue on installations by Sander and Villar)
Millennium Film Journal Nos. 39/40
Winter 2003
Science in Action! A Craig Baldwin Retrospective
San Francisco Cinematheque, 2003
(published in conjunction with Baldwin's retrospective at the SFC; includes
an audio CD)
The Independent Short Film in Canada, 1967-2002
ed. Karyn Sandlos and Daniel Cockburn
The Canadian Filmmakers' Distribution Centre (Toronto), 2002
(exhibition booklet to accompany a traveling film series in honor of the
CFMDC's 35th anniversary)
Not Necessarily NOT Very Important
San Francisco Cinematheque, 2003
(published in conjunction with film/video/etc. maker tENTATIVELY, a
cONVENIENCE's retrospective at the SFC; includes an audio CD)
Discrete and Continuous Boundary Problems
San Francisco Cinematheque, 2002
(published in conjunction with film/video maker Lynn Marie Kirby's
retrospective at the SFC)
Michael Snow almost Cover to Cover
ed. Catson Roberts and Lucy Steeds
Black Dog Publishing and Arnolfini (London), 2001
ISBN: 1-901033-18-X
Making Forest of Bliss: Intention, Circumstance, and Chance in Nonfiction
Film - A Conversation between Robert Gardner and Akos Ostor
Harvard Film Archive, 2001
ISBN: 0-674-00787-5
(includes a DVD of Gardner's film Forest of Bliss)
Picturing the Primitive: Visual Culture, Ethnography, and Early German
Cinema
by Assinka Oksiloff
Palgrave, 2001
ISBN: 0-312-29373-9
Gunvor Nelson - Still Moving
ed. John Sundholm
Karlstad University, 2002
ISBN: 91-89422-80-5
The Films of Jack Chambers
ed. Kathryn Elder
Cinematheque Ontario, 2002
ISBN: 0-9682962-4-6
John Smith - Film and Video Works 1972-2002
Picture This Moving Image and Watershed Media Centre (London), 2002
ISBN: 0-9539872-48
Experimental Cinema: The Film Reader
ed. Wheeler Winston Dixon and Gwendolyn Audrey Foster
Routledge, 2002
ISBN: 0-415-27787-6
Independent Film Show - 2nd Edition
e-m arts (Naples, Italy), 2002
(exhibition catalogue to accompany a series of experimental film screenings
in Naples)
Cinema Without Borders: The Films of Joris Ivens
ed. Andre Stufkens
European Foundation Joris Ivens, 2002
ISBN: 90-804651-4-3
Len Lye
by Roger Horrocks
Auckland University Press, 2001
ISBN: 1-86940-247-2
Cinema 16: Documents Towards a History of the Film Society
by Scott MacDonald
Temple University Press, 2002
ISBN: 1-56639-924-6
Harun Farocki: Imprint, Writings
ed. Susanne Gaensheimer and Nicolaus Schafkausen
Lukas and Sternberg, 2001
ISBN: 3-930916-41-X
Experimental Cinema in the Digital Age
by Malcolm LeGrice
British Film Institute, 2001
ISBN: 0-85170-972-2
Moonchild: The Films of Kenneth Anger
ed. Jack Hunter
Creation Books, 2001
ISBN: 1-84068-029-6
Tom Tom the Piper's Son
Re:Voir/USA, 2000/2002
(a vhs release of Ken Jacobs' classic film accompanied by a new digital
short "A Tom Tom Chaser" and a special issue of the French publication
Exploding on Tom Tom)
Hung Up
San Francisco Cinematheque, 2003
(a DVD of a new work by Eric Saks along with a booklet and an original
drawing; issued in conjunction with a retrospective of Saks' work at the
SFC)
WVLNT (Wavelength for Those Who Don't Have the Time)
Art Metropole (Toronto), 2003
(a DVD of a new work by Michael Snow, made from his classic film Wavelength)
Tracing the Decay of Fiction: Encounters with a Film by Pat O'Neill
by Pat O'Neill, Rosemary Comella, Kristy H.A. Kang, and the Labyrinth
Project
Annenberg Center for Communications, University of Southern California, 2002
(an interactive DVD-ROM to accompany O'Neill's film The Decay of Fiction)
Digital Snow
The Daniel Langlois Foundation for Art, Science, and Technology and Epoxy
Communications, 2002
ISBN: 0968469310
(a DVD-ROM and accompanying booklet on the work of Michael Snow)
Thomas Zummer: Portraits of Robots and Other Recent Works
ed. Max Henry and Jamina Achour
Frederieke Taylor Gallery (New York), 2002
(okay, so it's not film or video related - but Zummer's drawings are cool)
Telling Time: Essays of a Visionary Filmmaker - Stan Brakhage
ed. Bruce McPherson
Documentext, 2003
ISBN: 0-929701-69-0 (hardback)
Hannes Schupback: Film Solo
2003
ISBN: 3-9522797-0-6
(catalogue to accompany film tour of Swiss filmmaker Schupback)
5961
From: Craig Keller
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 1:50am
Subject: Re: Re: "promo clips"
> > Except for Happy Together, which I think is his only
> > unquestionably great film.
>
> Yeah, I think it's by far his best too. That's sort of a minority
> view,
> though, isn't it?
I personally favor 'Happy Together' and 'In the Mood for Love' -- which
isn't too minority an opinion, but I think they're both superior to
'Fallen Angels' and 'Chungking Express,' which are the only others I've
seen.
cmk.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5962
From: Craig Keller
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 1:56am
Subject: Re: Re: "promo clips"
>
> Tobe Hooper
What did -he- direct?
cmk.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5963
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 2:45am
Subject: Re: Cukor, Hawks, Sternberg, and camp
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
> > > I knew you were going to say that; and of
> > course you're right.
> > But for the sake of discussion: what's deemed
> > "ridiculous"? the high
> > heels or the act itself? Shall we say that the act
> > is (melo)
> > dramatique, the heels make it campy?
> > >
>
> Bingo!
>
> ___Oh so I am learning finally from your great Camp wisdom! Thank
you Camp Master! And a happy new (camp)
year_______________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
> http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
5964
From:
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 9:48pm
Subject: Tobe Hooper Video
Tobe Hooper directed
Billy Idol - Dancing With Myself
This video shows Billy Idol on top of a roof, while various ghouls are trying
to climb the building. It reminds one a bit of Richard Matheson's sf novel "I
Am Legend".
As far as I know, this is Hooper's only music video. But it is so good, and
so evocative of an era, that it is hard to exclude. It sure conveys the
personality of Billy Idol with vividness. Perhaps a personality (in this case) partly
created by Hooper.
Musical scenes in films are so good. Just saw "Gosford Park" again. The whole
murder sequence is set to Ivor Novello singing. The mise-en-scene reminds one
of the great long camera movement at the opening of "The Player". Very
dream-like.
Mike Grost
If I had a chance
I'd ask the world to dance
and not be dancing with myself...
5965
From: Joseph Kaufman
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 3:20am
Subject: Re: PA
Tag wrote:
>Philadelphia used to have some bizarre and strange and occasionally
>wonderful all-night movie houses.
The News, the Family and the Center were part cinematheques and part
flop houses at 25 to 75 cents per double or triple feature.
--
- Joe Kaufman
5966
From: Tag Gallagher
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 3:33am
Subject: Re: PA
Never went to the Family; they never showed anything I wanted to see
(not because of the name). The Center was the good one, not too many
floppers and decent ambience, also a lot of interesting movies, even
some with subtitles. 7 Women opened there! Six or seven months before
New York! There was a tv ad around 11pm and I rushed downtown. It was
next to a Dewey's which had the best food in the city. The News was the
flop house; it smelled too; rather disgusting a times; and it was hard
to hear, there was so much snoring. About a block long and eight-seats
wide, with spot lights every few yards, so you had to get over next to a
wall down front in a dark spot, and use pastic ear plugs to get rid of
the ambient noise. I was deeply engrossed in Rio Bravo one night and
interrupted by an usher who wanted to throw me out because, unknown to
me, some guy had sat down next to me and was making passes. But where
else could one see Rio Bravo in the mid 60s?
Were you there, Joe?
:
> Tag wrote:
>
> >Philadelphia used to have some bizarre and strange and occasionally
> >wonderful all-night movie houses.
>
> The News, the Family and the Center were part cinematheques and part
> flop houses at 25 to 75 cents per double or triple feature.
> --
>
> - Joe Kaufman
>
5967
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 3:36am
Subject: Re: Re: Cukor, Hawks, Sternberg, and camp
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
> >
> > ___Oh so I am learning finally from your great
> Camp wisdom! Thank
> you Camp Master! And a happy new (camp)
> year_______________________________
You're welcome O faithful camp-follower -- and a Happy
New Year to you too, and everyone else at [a_film_by]
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
5968
From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 3:11pm
Subject: crime of passion
I can't create a Ten Best list for 2003 since I didn't like much of
anything this year. (The best time I had at the movies was watching
CHARLIE'S ANGELS: FULL THROTTLE, especially wonderful for Drew
Barrymore's heavy metal flashback.)
Much better than any film I saw in a theater in 2003 is the just-
released DVD of Gerd Oswald's CRIME OF PASSION, which I strongly
recommend to everyone in the group. At the risk of overselling it, I
think it's an astonishing work and one of the most neglected major
American films of the 1950s: Strong script (by Jo Eisinger) and
performances (by Barbara Stanwyck, Sterling Hayden, Raymond Burr, Fay
Wray, Virginia Grey)and good work by Joseph LaShelle. But Oswald's
direction is something else again. Almost every shot is a small
miracle of off-centered framing and use of multiple planes of action,
none of it superfluous and all of it tied to the despair of
Stanwyck's character after she makes the disastrous mistake of giving
up her career as a journalist to marry a mediocre cop. Oswald may be
the last in a line of major German emigree directors (even though, to
the best of my knowledge, he did not direct in Germany until the
1960s)and the point-of-view of a film like CRIME OF PASSION looks
ahead to someone like Fassbinder as much as it looks back to Lang or
Siodmak. The last shot of CRIME OF PASSION even anticipates the last
shot of Fassbinder's MARTHA, in both cases elevator doors slowly
closing on their heroines, decisively sealing their fates.
5969
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 4:25pm
Subject: PA, New Year, & masterpiece
Last night we watched, for the hundredth time probably, the perfect
Xmas and New Year movie, "Remember the Night". I won't revive
the "who's the real auteur?" debate here (my pal Y.T. was right on
the nose, I feel, in his "American Directors" piece). I'm just trying
to drag the Off Topic back into topic! MacMurray and Stanwyck drive
from New York to Indiana through PA -- yes Tag and Joe and Eliz., PA
(where they encounter unpleasantness with some locals) to visit his
mother and aunt for Xmas and New Year. Greatest Xmas scene in movies
IMO: the exchange of gifts and Sterling Holloway singing "The End of
a perfect day" and the others joining in -- and it's not even the end
of a perfect movie. And Willard Robertson should have received a
supporting player oscar for his fantastic scene as the theatrical
defense lawyer at the beginning.
They sure don't make them like they used to...
5970
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 4:36pm
Subject: Gerd Oswald
Joe, there's an Oswald thread back in the early archives of
a_film_by: Fred and I are both Oswald Unconditionalists. Be sure to
see A Kiss Before Dying, which is now available on DVD, too.
5971
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 5:04pm
Subject: Re: PA, New Year, & masterpiece
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
> Last night we watched, for the hundredth time
> probably, the perfect
> Xmas and New Year movie, "Remember the Night".
It is indeed quite lovely. And it brings up the whole
subject of Christmas movies. Justgot through reading
gavin lambert's marvelous bio of Natalie Wood,so I've
been thinking about "Miracle on 34th Street" a lot.
"It's a Wonderful Life" was for years the #1
Christmasmovie shown on TV.Now it's been eclipsed by
"A Christmas Story."
But as befits the fact that Christmas is the
usurpation by Christianity of a Pagan HoldayChrist was
actually born in July) created to stave off seasonal
depression, here's a list of Christmas movies that
REALLY deal with Christmas.
1. "Christmas Holday": Starring Deanna Durbin and Gene
Kelly. Sound like frothy fun? Well it's directed by
Robert Siodmak from ascreenplay by Herman J.
Mankiewicz adapted from Somerset Maughan's novel.
Sweet Deana marries homical maniac Genekelly and ends
up in a whorehouse singing "Spring Will be a Little
Late This Year" Gene dies in Deanna's arms after being
cut down by a hail of police gunfire. Merry Christmas!
2. "Brazil": More timely than ever. Practically a
documentary.
3. "Gremlins":Phobe Cates' monologue about the death
of her father says it all.
4. "Lady in the Lake": Murder for Christmas!
I'm sure others have suggestions along this line.
__________________________________
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Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
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5972
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 5:50pm
Subject: Kansas City Confidential
Just caught the last hour of KCC, was sorry to miss the bank robber scenes as
described by Mike Grost. Will look for this engaging movie again.
Mike,
Are you the person who posted some tv listings awhile back when my personal
computer was in the repair shop? If so, can you direct me to those listing so I get
them on my own computer?
If not you, and someone else, can that someone direct me to the posting for
upcoming films on TV.
I've got the Lang MINISTRY OF FEAR set on the tivo.
Elizabeth
5973
From: Tag Gallagher
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 5:57pm
Subject: Vini & Doug
Anyone (Fred?) have any notions about how a SIRK "Tea and Sympathy"
would differ from Minnelli's?
Also: where did this notion of von Sternberg wanting to do a movie
following someone's life from cradle to grave come from?
5974
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 6:03pm
Subject: Re: PA, New Year, & masterpiece
If the "auteur' issue references writer / director credits, it messed me up. I have my
tivo set to record Preston Sturges as a director and it picks up the rare showing ...but
not when he is listed as the writer -- no recording!
Live and learn.
REMEMBER THE NIGHT with its maternal short comings emphasis is similar to Tommy
Power's belt lashing father in PUBLIC ENEMY. I don't remember if there is a prologue
or epilogue to RTN as in PE, but I wonder how so it will be before current society is so
admonished for its parenting inadequacies?
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon" wrote:
> Last night we watched, for the hundredth time probably, the perfect
> Xmas and New Year movie, "Remember the Night". I won't revive
> the "who's the real auteur?" debate here (my pal Y.T. was right on
> the nose, I feel, in his "American Directors" piece). I'm just trying
> to drag the Off Topic back into topic! MacMurray and Stanwyck drive
> from New York to Indiana through PA -- yes Tag and Joe and Eliz., PA
> (where they encounter unpleasantness with some locals) to visit his
> mother and aunt for Xmas and New Year. Greatest Xmas scene in movies
> IMO: the exchange of gifts and Sterling Holloway singing "The End of
> a perfect day" and the others joining in -- and it's not even the end
> of a perfect movie. And Willard Robertson should have received a
> supporting player oscar for his fantastic scene as the theatrical
> defense lawyer at the beginning.
>
> They sure don't make them like they used to...
5975
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 6:04pm
Subject: Re: PA, New Year, & masterpiece admonished for its parenting inadequacies.
If the "auteur' issue references writer / director credits, it messed me up. I have my
tivo set to record Preston Sturges as a director and it picks up the rare showing ...but
not when he is listed as the writer -- no recording!
Live and learn.
REMEMBER THE NIGHT with its maternal short comings emphasis is similar to Tommy
Power's belt lashing father in PUBLIC ENEMY. I don't remember if there is a prologue
or epilogue to RTN as in PE, but I wonder how so it will be before current society is so
admonished for its parenting inadequacies.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon" wrote:
> Last night we watched, for the hundredth time probably, the perfect
> Xmas and New Year movie, "Remember the Night". I won't revive
> the "who's the real auteur?" debate here (my pal Y.T. was right on
> the nose, I feel, in his "American Directors" piece). I'm just trying
> to drag the Off Topic back into topic! MacMurray and Stanwyck drive
> from New York to Indiana through PA -- yes Tag and Joe and Eliz., PA
> (where they encounter unpleasantness with some locals) to visit his
> mother and aunt for Xmas and New Year. Greatest Xmas scene in movies
> IMO: the exchange of gifts and Sterling Holloway singing "The End of
> a perfect day" and the others joining in -- and it's not even the end
> of a perfect movie. And Willard Robertson should have received a
> supporting player oscar for his fantastic scene as the theatrical
> defense lawyer at the beginning.
>
> They sure don't make them like they used to...
5976
From:
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 6:12pm
Subject: TCM Movie List
Peter Toungette contributed this list (post 5502, I think!).
Here it is again:
Note TONIGHT (middle of the night) is the Fritz Lang double bill!
Mike Grost
KANSAS CITY CONFIDENTIAL (Phil Karlson)
1/1 10:00 A.M.
METROPOLIS (Fritz Lang)
1/1-2 1:30 A.M
WHILE THE CITY SLEEPS (Fritz Lang)
1/1-2 4:00 A.M.
THE RELUCTANT DEBUTANTE (Vincente Minnelli)
1/2 12:00 P.M.
MINISTRY OF FEAR (Fritz Lang)
1/3 8:00 A.M.
CAUSE FOR ALARM (Tay Garnett)
1/6 12:30 P.M.
CHEYENNE (Raoul Walsh)
1/7 11:30 A.M.
KID GALAHAD (Phil Karlson)
1/8 2:30 P.M.
BLACKBEARD THE PIRATE (Raoul Walsh)
1/14 1:00 P.M.
MACAO (Josef von Sternberg)
1/14 4:30 P.M.
KEEPER OF THE FLAME (George Cukor)
1/15 8:15 A.M.
THE NAKED AND THE DEAD (Raoul Walsh)
1/17 12:15 P.M.
NORTHWEST PASSAGE (King Vidor)
1/17 4:00 P.M.
OPERATION PETTICOAT (Blake Edwards)
1/18 12:15 P.M.
MIDNIGHT (Mitchell Leisen)
1/19 8:00 P.M.
SYLVIA SCARLETT (George Cukor)
1/21 1:45 A.M.
UNDERCURRENT (Vincente Minnelli)
1/21 3:30 A.M.
A LIFE OF HER OWN (George Cukor)
1/23 9:00 A.M.
BRIGADOON (Vincente Minnelli)
1/25 10:00 A.M.
MANPOWER (Raoul Walsh)
1/28 4:00 P.M.
5977
From:
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 2:09pm
Subject: Re: TCM Movie List
Mike Grost wrote:
>Note TONIGHT (middle of the night) is the Fritz Lang double bill!
And also please note that all times are EST!
It looks to be a great month of film viewing.
5978
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 8:21pm
Subject: Re: the Manny Farber exam
Let's take another collective stab. Sure we don't know what films were sho=
wn in the
class, but they were pre-1970's, and probably of the ilk Manny Farber would=
admire
(not that I know his criticism or taste).
These are all guesses, based on 'sounds like something' these characters wo=
uld say
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jaime N. Christley" w=
rote:
> This is only part of the notorious "Manny Farber final exam," printed
> in Film Comment during the 1970s. I was just wondering if we could
> collectively attribute all of the quotes to their correct films. I
> know one right off the bat, but I won't say it. (It's very obvious.)
>
> 9 Identify the movies which provide posterity with the following
> great lines:
>
> a "This is the face that says it knows a lot about something."
>
> b "How many breakfasts in the Cafe Kroner?"
reminds me of WITNESS FOR THE PROSECUTION Berlin flashback in the bombed ou=
t
apartment with Deitrich and the soldier
>
> c "I have nothing to say and my students sleep in class."
sounds like Prof GROUCHO MARX in HORSE FEATHERS
>
> d "We'll be leaving the neighborhood soon. My husband's getting a
> promotion."
sounds like Mrs. Nolan from A TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN
>
> e "He's going to come toward me, he's going to take me by the
> shoulders, he's going to kiss me…he'll kiss me…and I'll be lost!"
sounds like Scarlett O'hare in GONE WITH THE WIND
>
> f "You were made to the measure of my body."
>
> g "No one's ever crossed our family before."
sounds like Michael Corleone in The GODFATHER
>
> -Jaime
5979
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 8:34pm
Subject: Re: Re: the Manny Farber exam
"How many breakfasts in the Cafe Kroner?"
That's from "The Shop Around the Corner"
--- Elizabeth Anne Nolan wrote:
> Let's take another collective stab. >
__________________________________
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Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
5980
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 8:35pm
Subject: Re: Re: the Manny Farber exam
Whoops! No -- that's from "Not Reconciled."
--- David Ehrenstein wrote:
> "How many breakfasts in the Cafe Kroner?"
>
> That's from "The Shop Around the Corner"
>
> --- Elizabeth Anne Nolan wrote:
> > Let's take another collective stab. >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
> http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
5981
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 8:38pm
Subject: Re: the Manny Farber exam
sounds good;
Interesting how a single line could provoke different movies
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein wrote:
> "How many breakfasts in the Cafe Kroner?"
>
> That's from "The Shop Around the Corner"
>
> --- Elizabeth Anne Nolan wrote:
> > Let's take another collective stab. >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
> http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
5982
From: Joseph Kaufman
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 10:06pm
Subject: Re: PA
Tag wrote:
>....The News was the flop house; it smelled too; rather disgusting a
>times; and it was hard to hear, there was so much snoring. About a
>block long and eight-seats wide, with spot lights every few yards,
>so you had to get over next to a wall down front in a dark spot, and
>use pastic ear plugs to get rid of the ambient noise. I was deeply
>engrossed in Rio Bravo one night and
>interrupted by an usher who wanted to throw me out because, unknown
>to me, some guy had sat down next to me and was making passes. But
>where else could one see Rio Bravo in the mid 60s?
>
>Were you there, Joe?
As I recall I saw RIO BRAVO at the Terminal Theater in Upper Darby,
but as I'm fond of recounting, the News somehow came up with a 35mm
print of CEILING ZERO that I saw. Where the heck did they get it
from, and where is it now?
One of the three features sometimes was one of Herschell Gordon
Lewis's early nudist camp movies, to which I somehow was allowed
admission at a relatively young age. These provided an unbearable
mixture of excitement and tedium, as the content was mostly nude
people playing volleyball.
The Center got any number of serious films, such as Losey's EVA. The
Palace sometimes got interesting things also. I remember seeing a
Duvivier film, THE BURNING COURT, there.
Meanwhile up Market Street from all this was the World, the official
first-run art house, where I saw A WOMAN IS A WOMAN, 8 1/2, RED
DESERT, etc.
--
- Joe Kaufman
5983
From: Tag Gallagher
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 10:27pm
Subject: Re: PA
Joseph Kaufman wrote:
>
> The Center got any number of serious films, such as Losey's EVA. The
> Palace sometimes got interesting things also. I remember seeing a
> Duvivier film, THE BURNING COURT, there.
>
> Meanwhile up Market Street from all this was the World, the official
> first-run art house, where I saw A WOMAN IS A WOMAN, 8 1/2, RED
> DESERT, etc.
> --
And farther up Market Street was the Mastbaum (the biggest; long gone
now) where I got Fess Parker's autograph at the premiere of Davy
Crocket. And a ways south of there was The Pearl where I had the
greatest audience experience of my life all through 7 Women.
I don't recall The News programming nudies. The problem when I almost
got thrown out of RIO BRAVO there was that it was nearly impossible to
convince the usher that someone had come to the theater to watch the
movie. I recall The World showing THE VIRGIN SPRING and the Church
creating a scandal against it.
My local theater was The Alden. Once when I was about 11 we drove past
and there was a friend of mine, same age, standing waiting in line at
the box office. He was the only one. I still feel moved at what at the
sadness of the sight. We had to tell him there was no matinee that day.
5984
From: Joseph Kaufman
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 11:34pm
Subject: Re: PA
Tag wrote:
>I don't recall The News programming nudies.
That was in the early 1960s.
>I recall The World showing THE VIRGIN SPRING and the Church
>creating a scandal against it.
Prior to my time in Philly, I was in Cleveland from 1958 to 1960,
where a theater manager and projectionist were successfully
prosecuted for showing Malle's THE LOVERS.
>My local theater was The Alden.
I must admit don't remember where the Alden was. My neighborhood
theater in Philly was the Bala, but the Suburban was more home for
double-feature Saturday matinees (Harryhausen, Hammer et al).
However I went all over the city to see films, including to funky
houses like the Nixon, or a little more classy, the Uptown.
--
- Joe Kaufman
5985
From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 11:30pm
Subject: Re: Gerd Oswald
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> Joe, there's an Oswald thread back in the early archives of
> a_film_by: Fred and I are both Oswald Unconditionalists. Be sure to
> see A Kiss Before Dying, which is now available on DVD, too.
Thanks for the tip, Bill. I did do a subject search for Oswald here
this morning, just to make sure that I wasn't repeating material from
months gone by. But neither his name nor any film titles came up.
(Has anyone else had this problem in terms of the unreliable or
inconsistent quality of the search engine?) Anyway, I found what you
and Fred had written by going through the subject headings
individually. I have some of Oswald's OUTER LIMITS episodes here on
laser disc (I think a lot of them are on DVD now) and a tape of
SCREAMING MIMI which I'll look at again tonight. I had seen CRIME OF
PASSION about 15 years ago when Jackie Raynal showed it the Thalia
Soho and I liked it very much. It just wasn't the revelation that it
was to me when I looked at my DVD this morning. A purchase of A KISS
BEORE DYING is definitely next, another one I saw a while back but
clearly need a refresher on.
Roger McNiven corresponded with Oswald in the '70s but I don't know
if he kept those letters and, if he did, whether they've been
preserved since Roger's death. Roger screened me his print of
BRAINWASHED once, about twenty years ago, the only time I have seen
the film.
5986
From:
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 6:35pm
Subject: Auteurs on The Twilight Zone
The Sci-Fi channel has been airing a Twilight Zone marathon all day. I've
been sampling some of it and have been surprised at some of the names I've seen
under the "Directed by" credit! I just finished watching Lamont Johnson's
episode "The Shelter" and was duly impressed. Another episode directed by
Johnson ("Four O'Clock") is on a bit later, as is one directed by Mitchell Leisen
("People Are Alike All Over"). Most of these are new to me, as I watch
incredibly little TV.
I know that "The Outer Limits" is acknowledged by auteurists as having
provided Gerd Oswald (I love "A Kiss Before Dying," "Crime of Passion," and
"Brainwashed," by the way) with a great forum to flex his cinematic muscles - but how
about "The Twilight Zone" for the auteurs listed above? I do remember Chris
Fujiwara writing about Jacques Tourneur's episode.
Peter
5987
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 11:43pm
Subject: Re: PA
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Kaufman wrote:
> Tag wrote:
>
> I was deeply
> >engrossed in Rio Bravo one night and
> >interrupted by an usher who wanted to throw me out because,
unknown
> >to me, some guy had sat down next to me and was making passes.
But
> >where else could one see Rio Bravo in the mid 60s?
> >
> >Were you there, Joe?
>
>
Sordid movie-going experiences from the past are fascinating.
My first viewing of RIO BRAVO was much different. It was in a first-
run theater on the Champs Elysees, probably the only house in Paris
that showed it in English, subtitled, instead of dubbed. It was a big
hit. To make it shorter and not to alienate the juvenile audience (I
guess) WB had cut most of the scenes with Angie Dickinson and the
running time was about 15 minutes shorter than the full version. For
once it wasn't such a bad idea... A girl friend of mine saw it four
times the same week in the same first-run theater (very expensive; I
couldn't afford such extravagance).
JPC
5988
From:
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 6:43pm
Subject: Re: Re: Gerd Oswald
The last time we discussed Oswald on a_film_by (it was in the very first few
weeks after our group's formation, I believe), I seem to remember that most of
the auteurists here hadn't seen many of his films after the '60s. Now that
we have about twice as many members as we did during that last discussion, I
was curious if anyone here has seen any of his '70s work? The German language
"To The Bitter End" (1975) sounds particularly intriguing.
Coincidentally, given my last post, the last thing Oswald did was two
episodes for the new "Twilight Zone" series in the '80s. They were called "The
Beacon" and "The Star." Anyone seem 'em?
Peter
5989
From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 11:53pm
Subject: Re: the Manny Farber exam
Elizabeth,
All of those Manny Farber questions were taken from an exam dealing
with modernist and avant-garde cinema: Straub/Huillet, Snow, Gehr,
Resnais, Fassbinder, Godard, Duras, etc. No GONE WITH THE WIND, no
TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN, no GODFATHER. I can't answer most of them. I
think "You were made to the measure of my body" is from HIROSHIMA,
MON AMOUR. If it wasn't, it should have been. Or maybe Duras
recycled the line in something else -- if so, very typical of her.
All of the questions on this exam (if you ever find that issue of
FILM COMMENT) are amusing and the exam as a whole is almost as
entertaining (and sometimes infuriating) a read as a Farber essay.
One question asks the students to draw the room from WAVELENGTH,
labeling all of the important objects in the room. I'm not sure how
fair some of this is since I didn't take the class: Do the questions
(including the ones that reference lines of dialouge) refer to issues
which the class thoroughly addressed? Or is Farber amusing himself
while he makes his students jump through hoops?
5990
From:
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 6:53pm
Subject: Lansing, Michigan theaters
All this nostalgia...
In Lansing we had the Michigan Theater. It was a whole mini-movie palace,
inside a downtown arcade, complete with balcony and a beautiful spiral staircase.
It was built by the same architect who did Chicago's great movie palaces,
such as the Paradise. Nearby it was the Gladmer. Both theaters regularly showed
dubbed foreign films, in among the Hollywood releases - this was the 60's, the
high point in foreign film popularity in the US. I still remember seeing "That
Man from Rio" (de Broca, 1963) as a child there. And while "Cecil B.
Demented" (John Waters, 2000) makes jokes about the unlikelihood of US multiplexes
playing Pasolini, we actually saw a dubbed version of "The Gospel According to St
Matthew" there around 1966. A very intense memory: while Jesus says at the
film's end, "Behold, I am with you till the end of the world", the theater
curtains swept down over the screen. They were translucent, and regularly were
closed while the film was still running, as in this case. It was beautiful.
We also had a nice theater in the neighboring town of Grand Ledge. My father
and I saw "Rio Lobo" there in 1970. Just as the big train robbery is starting
at the film's beginning, an usher came down the aisle, and politely called my
father out of the theater. The alarm had gone off at my father's credit union,
and the alarm company was notifying him. It turned out to be nothing, but by
the time my Dad got back to his seat, the big robbery was over. For years
afterwards, my father would humorously complain about this. "I was cheated out of
seeing the big train robbery!" When Elizabeth mentioned missing the beginning
of "Kansas City Confidential", this was my first thought!
Mike Grost
5991
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 11:56pm
Subject: Re: Gerd Oswald
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
> The last time we discussed Oswald on a_film_by (it was in the very
first few
> weeks after our group's formation, I believe), I seem to remember
that most of
> the auteurists here hadn't seen many of his films after the '60s.
Now that
> we have about twice as many members as we did during that last
discussion, I
> was curious if anyone here has seen any of his '70s work? The
German language
> "To The Bitter End" (1975) sounds particularly intriguing.
>
> Peter
Tavernier, who wrote most of our brief "Oswald" entry in "50
ans..." saw his German film of 1960, Die Schachnovelle, from a Stefan
Zweig story, about a German political prisoner who plays chess alone
in his cell to keep from going mad. "The direction is very elaborate
but petrified by very Germanic formal mannerisms." His other
European films are worthless, he added.
5992
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Fri Jan 2, 2004 0:20am
Subject: Re: the Manny Farber exam
Thanks for furthering my cinema education...more to see and learn. All didactic
contributions appreciated
But you must say, I gave the quiz an honest shot from a 'Hollywood" perspective; I
was one of those students whose answers often left professors wondering "What
could you possibly be thinkin?!"
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "joe_mcelhaney" wrote:
> Elizabeth,
>
> All of those Manny Farber questions were taken from an exam dealing
> with modernist and avant-garde cinema: Straub/Huillet, Snow, Gehr,
> Resnais, Fassbinder, Godard, Duras, etc. No GONE WITH THE WIND, no
> TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN, no GODFATHER. I can't answer most of them. I
> think "You were made to the measure of my body" is from HIROSHIMA,
> MON AMOUR. If it wasn't, it should have been. Or maybe Duras
> recycled the line in something else -- if so, very typical of her.
> All of the questions on this exam (if you ever find that issue of
> FILM COMMENT) are amusing and the exam as a whole is almost as
> entertaining (and sometimes infuriating) a read as a Farber essay.
> One question asks the students to draw the room from WAVELENGTH,
> labeling all of the important objects in the room. I'm not sure how
> fair some of this is since I didn't take the class: Do the questions
> (including the ones that reference lines of dialouge) refer to issues
> which the class thoroughly addressed? Or is Farber amusing himself
> while he makes his students jump through hoops?
5993
From:
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 7:23pm
Subject: Re: Auteurs on The Twilight Zone
I haven't seen the Twilight Zone for decades. And unfortunately have never
seen the episodes directed by Jacques Tourneur or Mitchell Leisen.
Stuart Rosenberg (Cool Hand Luke) did one of the most political episodes:
He's Alive
which warned about young Neo-Nazi's (Dennis Hopper).
Eliot Silverstein (Cat Ballou) did another political story:
The Obsolete Man
with Burgess Meredith as a librarian versus of futuristic dictatorship.
Both of these were written by Rod Serling.
Some of the episodes liked were directed by John Brahm:
Time Enough at Last
The Four of Us Are Dying
A Nice Place to Visit
Also, writer-director Montgomery Pittman did some nice episodes:
Two
The Grave
The Last Rites of Jeff Myrtlebank.
Pittman also worked on "Maverick". He is an utterly forgotten figure today.
Mike Grost
5994
From:
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 7:32pm
Subject: Re: Re: Gerd Oswald
Jean-Pierre Coursodon wrote:
>Tavernier, who wrote most of our brief "Oswald" entry in "50
>ans..." saw his German film of 1960, Die Schachnovelle, from a Stefan
>Zweig story, about a German political prisoner who plays chess alone
>in his cell to keep from going mad. "The direction is very elaborate
>but petrified by very Germanic formal mannerisms."
Well, that's the only one I've seen of the German films (it was released as
"Brainwashed" in the U.S.) and I love it. I'm sorry to hear that Tavernier
doesn't like the others. Anyone else?
Peter
5995
From:
Date: Thu Jan 1, 2004 7:42pm
Subject: Re: Gerd Oswald
When seen years ago, both "80 Steps to Jonah" and "Bunny O'Hare" seemed like
good movies, among the later Oswalds. "Jonah" is involving, and has beautiful
color photography. "Bunny" is much cruder, but it is fun in a light hearted
way.
"The Brass Legend" also has its moments, among Oswald's early work.
In one of Oswald's Outer Limits episodes, a good guy flees to another city.
Not to worry, one of the bad guys says in a bizarre voice, "Sane people can
always be traced!" This might be "Corpus Earthling".
Don't miss "O.B.I.T.", "It Crawled Out of the Woodwork", "Specimen: Unknown",
"The Special One" or "The Forms of Things Unknown".
Mike Grost
5996
From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Fri Jan 2, 2004 0:50am
Subject: Re: the Manny Farber exam
It's sometimes (but not always) easier to find the older posts on Google than with the Yahoo Groups search. Anyway, for the record, the balance of the Farber exam (in an "excerpted version") was posted here in post 500. Also, hotlove666 identified the "Unreconciled" quote in post 2559.
5998
From: Fred Camper
Date: Fri Jan 2, 2004 1:00am
Subject: Re: Re: A little factual Minnelli/Stuart Byron question
joe_mcelhaney wrote:
>However, I wonder, Fred, if you're not thinking of Paul Mayersberg's
>essays on Preminger
>
No, I'm sure Byron talked about freedom and Minnelli, unless my brain is
completely fried. I don't think it is: I'm one of those people who
wasn't really "there" in the 60s (as in "If you can remember the 60s,
you weren't really there"), so I'm hoping my memory is still OK. Byron
correctly identified freedom with spatial depth at the ends of "Some
Came Running" and "Home From the Hill," I believe, but then used the
same kind of equation to wax over-enthusiastic about the (to my mind,
too schematic visually) ending of "On a Clear Day."
But while I can't remember if he talks about this scene, I think his
formulation is extremely useful for (for example) considering the
relationship of the Halloween sequence (by far the best part of the
film, in my view) in "Meet Me in St. Louis" to the whole.
- Fred
5999
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri Jan 2, 2004 2:55am
Subject: Re: A little factual Minnelli/Stuart Byron question
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Fred Camper wrote:
>
>
>
> while I can't remember if he talks about this scene, I think his
> formulation is extremely useful for (for example) considering the
> relationship of the Halloween sequence (by far the best part of the
> film, in my view) in "Meet Me in St. Louis" to the whole.
>
> - Fred
If you think the Halloween sequence is "by far the best part of
the film", no matter how good it is, then I don't think you think
it's such a good film, because it is a great film independently of
its set pieces like the Halloween sequence (or the Trolley song)and
you seem to me to be saying the opposite.
JPC
6000
From: Fred Camper
Date: Fri Jan 2, 2004 3:07am
Subject: Re: Re: A little factual Minnelli/Stuart Byron question
jpcoursodon wrote:
>--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Fred Camper wrote:
>
>
>>
>>while I can't remember if he talks about this scene, I think his
>>formulation is extremely useful for (for example) considering the
>>relationship of the Halloween sequence (by far the best part of the
>>film, in my view) in "Meet Me in St. Louis" to the whole.
>>
>>- Fred
>>
>>
>
> If you think the Halloween sequence is "by far the best part of
>the film", no matter how good it is, then I don't think you think
>it's such a good film
>
You think correctly. I think as a whole it's only "pretty good," or
something like that.
Most overrated Minnellis: Gigi, An American in Paris, The Band Wagon,
Meet Me in St. Louis
Most underrated: Home From the Hill, Home From the Hill, Home From the
Hill, also Brigadoon....
Fred
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