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7201


From:
Date: Tue Feb 3, 2004 8:32pm
Subject: The Rag Man (Edward F. Cline)
 
Liked this silent film feature (1925). It has charming acting and storytelling - little Irish orphan Jackie Coogan meets elderly Jewish junk dealer, happiness ensues. Lots of location filming in New York City.
This sort of look at the poor in silent films was fairly common. It seems to date back to D. W. Griffith, and many Griffith pupils such as Raoul Walsh (Regeneration), Erich von Stroheim (Greed) and Griffith admirers, such as King Vidor (The Crowd).
"The Rag Man" is both more comic and sentimental than many of the above works. Like "Amarilly of Clothesline Alley" (Marshall Neilan, 1918), this is a comic off-shoot of the "realist stories about the poor" genre. Also like "Amarilly", its offers (non-offensive, sympathetic) ethnic humor, seemingly designed to appeal to urban immigrant audiences.
Cline was Buster Keaton's silent partner (writing & directing) on many of Keaton's finest shorts (early 1920's). Much later, he directed W. C. Fields in "The Bank Dick" (1940). I've never seen any of his intervening works - this is the first! It was just revived by TCM, with a new musical score.
For that matter, this is the only Coogan silent seen here, except for "The Kid" (Charlie Chaplin, 1921). Grew up watching Coogan as Uncle Fester in "The Addams Family" on TV. Loved it when he'd put a light bulb in his mouth, and it would light up!
There is a sequel by Cline called "Old Clothes". The same cast meets penniless girl played by early Joan Crawford. Silent movies made lots of sequels and series - this is not a new Hollywood phenomenon.
Will need to see this again for any discussion of mise-en-scene. Cline has good camera placement - he knows how to use long shots, medium shots for maximum dramatic efectiveness. But he does not seem to be a pictorial stylist, in the tradition of Ford, Sternberg, Minnelli, Tourneur etc. Could be wrong!

Mike Grost
7202


From: jaketwilson
Date: Tue Feb 3, 2004 11:06pm
Subject: Re: Altman's 3 Women
 
Peter Tonguette wrote:

> Anyway, I would agree that the particular side of Altman which
manifests itself so explicitly in "Images" and "3 Women" has not >
> been seen in many years. Maybe he can't get an original script of
his own writing financed ("Images" and "3 Women" were both >
> originals).

Again, I think the closest is probably KANSAS CITY (my '90s favorite)
an original where he's credited as co-writer. But going by interviews
and bios I'm not sure he really "writes" as such -- I suspect his
process is collaborative from the outset whatever the credits say.

IMAGES (seen here on video only) doesn't work for me, though it's
true that Altman's "failures" are frequently more interesting than
his "successes". Do people think THIEVES LIKE US holds up?

JTW
7203


From:
Date: Tue Feb 3, 2004 6:18pm
Subject: Porky's (Bob Clark)
 
Bill Krohn writes:
"I like Porky's."

I do too! And its sequel, "Porky's II: The Next Day" (Bob Clark, 1982).
Auteurist William Paul, in his book on comedy, has an article about how
atypical Porky's is in the the history of comedy.
Most other cinephiles seem afraid to say anything nice about these two funny
movies. Perhaps they're afraid they'll be accused of Moral Turpitude.
Among Clark's other work, also enjoyed his version of Arthur Miller's play,
"The American Clock". His best known work is "A Christmnas Story", which does
have its moments - I lost it during the duck dinner at the end :)

Nancy Parsons, who steals the show in Porky's, was also good in an episode of
the American TV show "Hardcastle and McCormick":
10-14-85 SOMETHING'S GOING ON ON THIS TRAIN
Writer: Lawrence Hertzog Director: Tony Mordente
This is a train comedy-mystery, a genre much beloved here.

Mike Grost
7204


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 0:18am
Subject: Jean-Claude Brisseau recommendations?
 
In conjunction with its typically curiosity-filled Film Comment
Selects Series, The Film Society of Lincoln Center is having what it
terms "a near-complete retrospective of the work of the defiantly
unclassifiable French filmmaker Jean-Claude Brisseau, whose unique
body of work is celebrated by Frdric Bonnaud in our Jan/Feb issue."

I know next to nothing about Brisseau: I know his CHOSES SECRETES
placed #1 on the top ten lists of both Les Inrockuptibles and Cahiers
du Cinema for 2002. I've heard of SOUND AND FURY...I think. And the
program notes on the Film Comment Selects site contains a little more
information. That's the sum total of my Brisseau education.

Comments? Recommendations?
7205


From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 0:24am
Subject: Re: Bob Clark
 
There are a more than a few good Clark films: From the Hip,
Black Christmas... Porky's II: The Next Day, as I recall, built on
the gross-out success of the first film to politicize the genre. And
A Christmas Story, dumped on by critics at the time (and
dumped by the studio), has become a Christmas classic - the
only film encapsulating the genius of radio griot Jean Shepherd.
I regret that enjoyable but doomed attempts at mainstream
success like Turk 182 and Rhinestone wrecked Clark's career
before he could make his film of The Rosy Crucifixion, adapted
from the Henry Miller trilogy (Sexus, Nexus and Plexus) by
Norman Mailer. Talk about Moral Turpitude!
7206


From:
Date: Tue Feb 3, 2004 7:26pm
Subject: Bob Clark, Altman
 
Bill Krohn wrote:

>I like Porky's.

Yes, that comparison was a little unfair of me. I like Bob Clark's work
(particularly the early horror films) and I'd like to revisit this film at some
point. Mike, I'll look up William Paul's writing on it.

Jake Wilson wrote:

>Again, I think the closest is probably KANSAS CITY

Yes, I'd agree. Now the other thing that unites "Images" and "3 Women"
beside the 'tone' of the films and their indulgence in dreamlike imagery is the
fact that they are each centered on female characters. In this sense,
interestingly, "Come Back to the 5 & Dime, Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean" looks like something
of a cousin; Altman didn't write it, but its cast is almost entirely female
and its bold shifts in time are quite dreamlike and associative in nature. I
just re-saw it on video and I'd actually say that it's the high-point of his
stage adaptations from the '80s.

>IMAGES (seen here on video only) doesn't work for me, though it's
>true that Altman's "failures" are frequently more interesting than
>his "successes". Do people think THIEVES LIKE US holds up?

I'd put "Images" in the interesting failure category; I like it, but it
always seemed to be a warm-up for "3 Women." I like "Thieves Like Us" very much,
but it's always been somewhat overshadowed in my mind by "California Split,"
his other 1974 release and also, I think, perhaps his greatest film. I did a
little piece on it for Senses of Cinema last year.

David, glad to hear that you're a "Short Cuts" supporter. As Jake once again
proves, "Kansas City" seems to be the Altman film from the '90s that's slowly
picked up a cult following, but as good as it is I'm not sure that it's
necessarily better than "Short Cuts." I'll try to write a little more about 'why'
as time allows...

Peter
7207


From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 0:28am
Subject: Re: Jean-Claude Brisseau recommendations?
 
Avoid the films of Jean-Claude Brisseau at all costs.

I was happy when I brought this up with the new editors of CdC
in Cambridge that Arnaud Despleschin pointed out something
re: Daney. Brisseau was the last director he trashed! Daney
finally got around to seeing one of the Brisseau films - Noces
Blanches? - and wrote (in his published late notebooks) that it
was "une merde..."
7208


From: filipefurtado
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 0:40am
Subject: Re: Jean-Claude Brisseau recommendations?
 
>
> Comments? Recommendations?

Ive seen two Brisseau's films (White Wedding and Black
Angel) and like them both. Black Angel is very very similar
to DePalmas Femme Fatale.

Filipe

>
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7209


From: Fred Camper
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 0:50am
Subject: Re: Re: Jean-Claude Brisseau recommendations?
 
hotlove666 wrote:

>Avoid the films of Jean-Claude Brisseau at all costs.
>
>
>
Could you let me know which ones the very worst were, and whether they
will survive DVD, and if they're available in that format, so I can
maybe see one?

I ask this in what I hope will be taken as a totally friendly and
respectful spirit of disagreement with the man who likes "Porky's." Now
there's a film of recent decades that I've actually seen. I neither
particularly liked nor particularly hated the humor, and would admit
that there are some mildly amusing moments, but cinematically it seemed
to me to be unwatchably worthless, revoltingly incoherent, totally ugly,
and, well, I won't go on.

Sometimes new things we really hate are hated because they're so new
that we don't get what they're doing. This has happened to me more than
once. So maybe I'm wrong about Porky's, but maybe also you're a contrary
indicator for me.

- Fred
7210


From: jaketwilson
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 1:35am
Subject: Re: Bob Clark
 
I'm afraid my explorations of the oeuvre of Bob Clark stopped short
at Baby Geniuses, though it's possible that my disgust at the whole
enterprise led me to overlook virtues in the mise en scne. I largely
agree with Fred that good films can be made on any topic, but I
submit that digitally manipulated wisecracking babies are an
exception.

JTW
7211


From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 1:47am
Subject: Re: Brisseau
 
Anyone who finds Porky's disgusting should be spared nothing.
See 'em all.
7212


From: Maxime
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 2:36am
Subject: Jean-Claude Brissau recommended
 
Each film by Brisseau is an act of faith, a search for what cannot
be said, where a - violently frontal gaze probes the beauty of the
bodies and reveal the cruelty and the strangeness of our world. Deep
content for naturalism (I love that), constant temptation of
fantasy. I believe that Brisseau is one of the greatest French
filmmakers. Still true without 'French'. I'm sorry I haven't more
time to expand, but I can't find my (English) words at 3AM... Choses
Secrtes is a masterpiece. All previous are to be seen, first among
them Cline and Les Savates du Bon Dieu. Noce Blanche, the only one
available in DVD (not sure about that), if not 'a merde' is not the
best. (But, as you know, burn the DVD and wait for the day).
7213


From: Maxime
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 2:41am
Subject: Re: Jean-Claude Brisseau recommended
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime" wrote:
>Deep content for naturalism (I love that)
It was 'deep contempt' of course (I really have to sleep)
7214


From:
Date: Tue Feb 3, 2004 10:09pm
Subject: Re: Re: Bob Clark
 
Jake Wilson wrote:

>I'm afraid my explorations of the oeuvre of Bob Clark stopped short
>at Baby Geniuses, though it's possible that my disgust at the whole
>enterprise led me to overlook virtues in the mise en scne.

Based on what Bill says, it sounds as though at some point in the '80s Clark
got stuck in a rut doing less-than-interesting films and has never really
recovered; I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't particularly care about the
projects he's doing right now. This sometimes happens to the best of directors.
Paul Wendkos is an example. I hope that he recovers someday, because when he's
on - "Black Christmas," "A Christmas Story" - he's really good. And I'll see
"Porky's" again and "The American Clock" for the first time.

Peter
7215


From:
Date: Tue Feb 3, 2004 10:42pm
Subject: Re: Bob Clark
 
I'll watch for "Black Christmas".
It has been twenty years since I saw the Porky's films. I remember how funny
they seemed - but nothing about their mise-en-scene, or lack thereof.
Clark likes ordinary life, ordinary people, and films set in the recent past,
representing characters' childhood or adolescence. So we get Arthur Miller's
memories of the Depression (his college years) in "The American Clock", a look
at Christmas gone by in "A Christmas Story", 1954 Florida high school in
Porky's. His films tend to be inclusive - all sorts of "ordinary" people take
part. In fact, broadening the scope of the films across gender or racial lines is
an explicit part of the plots of the films.
Have never seen any Brisseau. It's a nice day for a "White Wedding"...

Mike Grost
7216


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 4:21am
Subject: question about STUCK ON YOU
 
Thanks for the Brisseau feedback - I'd like to see some of the films,
but maybe I'll soft-pedal my impulse to "collect" them, the urge I
usually experience in the face of a retrospective.

I'm listening to a Velvet Underground compilation CD - the first time
I've ever really listened to them outside of the stray VU song on the
odd film's soundtrack (ex. TRAINSPOTTING). The song "I'll Be Your
Mirror" sounds damned familiar, as if I'd heard it recently in a new
movie. Did the Farrelly bros. use it for STUCK ON YOU? That answer
makes the most sense, given the film's subject/themes/etc, but this is
driving me crazy.

Really dug the film, by the way.

Also just re-watched TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT. It's still an
unrelentingly awesome masterpiece, in case anybody needed the reminder.

-Jaime
7217


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 5:13am
Subject: Re: question about STUCK ON YOU
 
--- "Jaime N. Christley"
wrote:
The song
> "I'll Be Your
> Mirror" sounds damned familiar, as if I'd heard it
> recently in a new
> movie.

Wes Anderson used Nico singing "These Days" in "The
Royal Tenenbaums."


__________________________________
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7218


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 5:35am
Subject: Re: Re: Altman's 3 Women
 
> IMAGES (seen here on video only) doesn't work for me, though it's
> true that Altman's "failures" are frequently more interesting than
> his "successes". Do people think THIEVES LIKE US holds up?

I saw it recently and liked it rather better than I did at the time of
its release. Actually, I hated it at the time, and all I could remember
was the movie-destroying mockery of the "Romeo and Juliet" scene. This
time around, I still hated that scene, but the rest of the film had a
nice scale to the characterization, and the period recreation was
pleasing. - Dan
7219


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 5:36am
Subject: Re: Jean-Claude Brisseau recommendations?
 
> I know next to nothing about Brisseau: I know his CHOSES SECRETES
> placed #1 on the top ten lists of both Les Inrockuptibles and Cahiers
> du Cinema for 2002. I've heard of SOUND AND FURY...I think. And the
> program notes on the Film Comment Selects site contains a little more
> information. That's the sum total of my Brisseau education.
>
> Comments? Recommendations?

The only one I've seen is SOUND AND FURY, which I didn't care much for
at the time. But Brisseau's rep is so big that I plan to give him a few
more chances. - Dan
7220


From: Tristan
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 5:46am
Subject: Re: question about STUCK ON YOU
 
If you've seen Jonas Mekas' "Scenes from the Life of Andy Warhol" the
song is in that. I have no idea about "Stuck on You." Was there a
Velvets song in "Trainspotting"?

PS - Sorry this is so off-topic.
7221


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 5:47am
Subject: Re: Re: Jean-Claude Brisseau recommendations?
 
> I neither
> particularly liked nor particularly hated the humor, and would admit
> that there are some mildly amusing moments, but cinematically it seemed
> to me to be unwatchably worthless, revoltingly incoherent, totally ugly,
> and, well, I won't go on.
>
> Sometimes new things we really hate are hated because they're so new
> that we don't get what they're doing.

I don't think Bob Clark is that sort of experience. I like him, but I
can't say I've ever found him all that visually interesting. At his
best, I'd say he's more conceptually interesting. The best I've seen by
him is DEATHDREAM, a striking 70s horror film with a clean, relentless
thematic attack. Haven't seen BLACK CHRISTMAS, and really want to.
PORKY'S has some appeal to me, but the crudeness is there - Clark is not
about transcending genre. - Dan
7222


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 5:53am
Subject: Re: question about STUCK ON YOU
 
> Also just re-watched TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT. It's still an
> unrelentingly awesome masterpiece, in case anybody needed the reminder.

At last, someone who doesn't prefer the Curtiz to the Hawks! - Dan
7223


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 6:20am
Subject: Re: question about STUCK ON YOU
 
Huh. Not really what I asked, but interesting, I guess. Thanks.

-Jaime

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein wrote:
>
> --- "Jaime N. Christley"
> wrote:
> The song
> > "I'll Be Your
> > Mirror" sounds damned familiar, as if I'd heard it
> > recently in a new
> > movie.
>
> Wes Anderson used Nico singing "These Days" in "The
> Royal Tenenbaums."
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
7224


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 6:23am
Subject: Re: question about STUCK ON YOU
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > Also just re-watched TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT. It's still an
> > unrelentingly awesome masterpiece, in case anybody needed the
reminder.
>
> At last, someone who doesn't prefer the Curtiz to the Hawks! - Dan

Actually, you've got an even more unusual case - someone who won't
down CASABLANCA to promote TO HAVE to masterpiece level. I think
Hawks' film is unmistakably greater, but I'm not hip enough to
downgrade the Curtiz, I think it's very moving, still quite
surprising, and a solid work, a masterpiece of its kind.

-Jaime
7225


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 6:37am
Subject: Re: Re: question about STUCK ON YOU
 
>>At last, someone who doesn't prefer the Curtiz to the Hawks! - Dan
>
> Actually, you've got an even more unusual case - someone who won't
> down CASABLANCA to promote TO HAVE to masterpiece level. I think
> Hawks' film is unmistakably greater, but I'm not hip enough to
> downgrade the Curtiz, I think it's very moving, still quite
> surprising, and a solid work, a masterpiece of its kind.

I was referring to a recent discussion here of Curtiz's THE BREAKING
POINT, which is based on Hemingway's TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT. I'm actually
a pretty big fan of THE BREAKING POINT (less so of CASABLANCA), but was
a little nonplussed to see so many cool reactions to the Hawks, which is
for me the Rosetta Stone of cinema. - Dan
7226


From: jaketwilson
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 6:50am
Subject: TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT (was: STUCK ON YOU)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jaime N. Christley"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > > Also just re-watched TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT. It's still an
> > > unrelentingly awesome masterpiece, in case anybody needed the
> reminder.

It can't be said too often. I haven't seen THE BREAKING POINT, but if
it's better I'll be stunned.

JTW
7227


From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 7:13am
Subject: Re: Jean-Claude Brisseau recommendations?
 
LES SAVATES DU BON DIEU is a such an oddball film, and so atypical for
Brisseau, that I am tempted to say that even Bill K. would enjoy it. A
wonderful "Marxist melodrama" (per the Rotterdam catalogue), at times
surrealist, and with a great performance by Emile Abossolo who plays an
African mystique who makes garbage fall from the sky.
SOUND AND FURY is a must -- especially if you intend to see CHOSES
SECRTES (Brisseau considers them to be sister-pieces).
What Brisseau has done for Bruno Cremer and Lisa Hrdia is rare in
cinema: he has made them vital and unforgettable in his films alone.
Gabe
7228


From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 7:53am
Subject: Re: Question About Stuck on You
 
Nope.

The songs in Stuck on You (without caps) are: here comes your man,
i'd walk a thousand miles, fire, this is the last time, childish,
moonlight feels right, we're off to see the wizard, moon river,
morenita, love love love, fight fight fight, i see through the eyes
of my friend, molly's chambers, bourbon, human (performed by Cher),
seed to sow, she gets around, the hustle, entry of the gladiator, la
la loves you, no more running away, california waiting, hubble,
summer parade, it never rains in southern california, wild horses,
soft hand, alone again (naturally), baby i'm-a want you, it's raining
men, another wasted weekend and summertime (from porgy and bess).

I too really like it. Ditto Osmosis Jones, which I just watched for
the first time on video.
7229


From: alsolikelife
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 2:27pm
Subject: Re: Shadows
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Doug Cummings wrote:
> >Two things that stood out for me in this condescending documentary
on 70s
> >American cinema:
> >
> >1. Peter Bogdanovich's claim that Welles' Othello was the first
> >self-financed, independent American film. Shadows was the second.
> >(Admittedly, this was relegated to an extra on the DVD.)

Apparently the original, long-lost version of SHADOWS that was
originally championed by Jonas Mekas before being radically reshot
and recut has finally been recovered and played at Rotterdam. (Irony
of ironies, it was rejected at Sundance.)

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0405/hoberman4.php

The person responsible for retrieving the "Holy Grail" cut should
come as no surprise to those familiar with Cassavetes scholarship.

Anyone have the scoop on when this version will be screened in the
States?
7230


From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 2:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: question about STUCK ON YOU
 
count me in for the masterpiece status of TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT.
The "Velvet" song in Trainspotting is "The Perfect Day", actually a solo Lou
Reed song from his 1972 record Transformer. Masterpiece status also.
Ruy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tristan"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 3:46 AM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: question about STUCK ON YOU


> If you've seen Jonas Mekas' "Scenes from the Life of Andy Warhol" the
> song is in that. I have no idea about "Stuck on You." Was there a
> Velvets song in "Trainspotting"?
>
> PS - Sorry this is so off-topic.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/a_film_by/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
7231


From: Fred Camper
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 3:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadows
 
Does "film" mean only "feature length narrative film with people walking
around talking in lip sync"??? WHAT are we talking about here?

Self-financed and independent:

circa 1939:: Joseph Cornell's "Rose Hobart" and the first of Harry
Smith's "Early Abstractions."
1939: "Object Lesson," by Christopher Young (not positive about the
exact year)
1943: "Meshes of the Afternoon," by Maya Deren
1947: "Psyche," by Gregory J. Markopoulos
1947: "Fireworks," by Kenneth Anger
1952: The first of many "self-financed, independent" films by Stan Brakhage

Sorry to keep harping on this, but just as I hate it when "American
film" is used to mean "Hollywood film," so I also hate it when "film" is
used to mean "lip sync narrative film with a story we can understand
with people talking to each other in lip sync that's roughly feature
length," or some of the above.

We're never going to even begin to understand cinema until we understand
that instructional films, ethnographic films, documentaries, medical
films, science films, and home movies are all "films."

- Fred
7232


From: Fred Camper
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 3:50pm
Subject: Bios page, bio requests
 
In post 7171, reprinted below, Peter and I requested (not demanded) bios
for our bios page. One person just wrote me that he couldn't find the
bios page. So: look at our group's home page,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/a_film_by/ On the left is a list of
hyperlinks. The "files" link contains many exciting items, such as our
all-important "Statement of Purpose." One of those is the bios page,
"Bios.html." Read it and weep -- that is, open it, notice your absence,
and endeavor to correct your absence by the procedure below.

Fred
__________________________________________________________________

Dear Members,

From time to time someone complains to us that they don't know who a
lot of people in our group are.

We want to allow for the possibility that someone wishes to remain
anonymous, or wishes to post only a first name. But in general, we hope
that members will post their full names and put useful information into
their Yahoo! profiles, which most have not done. We would like all of us
to be able to know each other's names if possible, ages and locations if
possible, and have some indication as to all our interests. If you have
a personal Web site, please place the url in your Yahoo! profile and in
our "Links" section.

Also note that members are requested to supply bios for the bios page.
Please email these to Fred at f@f... . If you separate
paragraphs with double spaces, begin each paragraph break with a

,
encase words you want italicized (such as film titles) with and
, and use the html code for links if you know how (it's not hard to
learn), you'll make Fred's life easier. If you have a bio on your Web
site, just email the url for the bio, and we'll make it into a link, as
Fred has just done with his own bio. Posting it on your own site will
also make it easier for you to update it.

Your friendly co-moderators,
Fred and Peter
7233


From:
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 5:15pm
Subject: Re: Shadows
 
Fred Camper is right: there is a long history of independently made experimental films in the US, dating back before 1920.
The earliest seen here is:
The Fall of the House of Usher (Melville Webber, James Sibley Watson, 1928)
This is an amazing movie. It is a poetic fantasia, very loosely based on Poe's classic. It frequently involves multiple superimpositions, and other non-standard photography. It was made by two men who were "amateur filmmakers" , and shown in cine-clubs of the era.
One might also mention:
Composition 1 (Themis) - (Dwinell Grant, 1940)
Grant was an abstract painter. He went on to make films that were "paintings in motion". The squares and triangles in this color film move around, change size, etc. It is like a Kandinsky turned into an animated film.
There were also independently made documentaries:
In the Street (Helen Levitt, Helen Loeb, James Agee, 1944)
This is a little look at porr kids playing in New York City. It is worth watching many times, to appreciate the beauty of the photography.

All three of these are eseentially silent movies. A reminder: the whole first third of film history (1895-1929) is silent only. And much of the experimental filmaking afterwards is also silent. Much documentary is essentially silent film with a narrator accompanying it, even to this day.
Silent film is glorious.

Mike Grost
7234


From: samfilms2003
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 5:24pm
Subject: Re: question about STUCK ON YOU
 
> The "Velvet" song in Trainspotting is "The Perfect Day", actually a solo Lou
> Reed song from his 1972 record Transformer. Masterpiece status also.

And for Lou Reed fans there's "Pale Blue Eyes" (VU) "Coney Island Baby"
a couple others in "The Vertical Ray of the Sun" - they work as interesting
counterpoint.

-Sam
7235


From: Fred Camper
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 5:49pm
Subject: Re: Dwinell Grant (was: Re: Shadows)
 
I'd like to second Mike's comments on Grant. His abstract films are
fascinating. I'm not even sure how great I think they are, but Grant
produced some "sui generis" works that are remarkable on their own.
Their use of space and movement is not like that of any other films I've
seen. Anthology Film Archives sometiems shows them.

- Fred
7236


From: A. Oscar Boyson
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 4:58pm
Subject: Re: Shadows, "Song" films
 
I was wondering if anyone knows some narrative films that mimic the
structure of a song. It seems like SHADOWS might work for adapting a
sort of jazz improvisational style, but it's hard to come up with films
that do this. Does anyone know if any writing has been done on this
subject? Films imitating music?

thanks,

Oscar
7237


From: Tosh
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 6:05pm
Subject: Re: Shadows, "Song" films
 
Disney's Fantasia
--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com
7238


From: Craig Keller
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 6:08pm
Subject: "Song" films
 
> I was wondering if anyone knows some narrative films that mimic the
> structure of a song.  It seems like SHADOWS might work for adapting a
> sort of jazz improvisational style, but it's hard to come up with films
> that do this.  Does anyone know if any writing has been done on this
> subject?  Films imitating music?

In some respects (maybe more poetic than point-for-point -- although
for the latter check out Donald Richie's theory of the "sonata
structures" of Kursawa's films in 'The Films of Akira Kurosawa'), 'The
Killing' by Stanley Kubrick.

craig.

7239


From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 6:14pm
Subject: RE: Shadows, "Song" films
 
>
> I was wondering if anyone knows some narrative films that mimic the
> structure of a song. It seems like SHADOWS might work for adapting a
> sort of jazz improvisational style, but it's hard to come up with films
> that do this. Does anyone know if any writing has been done on this
> subject? Films imitating music?

Jonathan Rosenbaum's recent article on "Sunrise" suggests that
it may be interpreted as having a "musical" structure.

http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1134404,00.html

Jonathan Takagi

 
ADVERTISEMENT


7240


From: Jess Amortell
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 6:39pm
Subject: Re: Shadows
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Fred Camper wrote:
> Does "film" mean only "feature length narrative film with people walking
> around talking in lip sync"??? WHAT are we talking about here?


This began with a reference to a Bogdanovich quote in which he presumably *was* talking about narrative features. The quote wasn't given verbatim, so it wasn't clear whether he had qualified his statement. Presumably Bogdanovich knows there are other kinds of films, or if he doesn't, he needs to be corrected, but surely the point was simply how relatively rare independently-financed *narrative* films were -- someone then pointed out he'd overlooked one between Othello and Shadows (Salt of the Earth), and I'd imagine he might have overlooked any number of others as well (Little Fugitive? Fear and Desire?) but the point about their rarity, compared to other kinds of independently financed films, would probably still remain.
7241


From: A R Ervolino
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 7:51pm
Subject: RE: Shadows, "Song" films
 
I haven't looked into this as much, but were the Quatsi Trilogy edited
to the music? Or did Glass Compose the music after the movie was made?
Something like that is based so much within the music that it's hard to
just look at it and know. There are some progressive music bands, such
as Italy's Devil Doll that composed music and then later made movies to
fit with the music, such as the film Dies Irae, which was never released
widely.

-----Original Message-----
From: A. Oscar Boyson [mailto:a-boyson@n...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 10:58 AM
To: a_film_by@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [a_film_by] Shadows, "Song" films

I was wondering if anyone knows some narrative films that mimic the
structure of a song. It seems like SHADOWS might work for adapting a
sort of jazz improvisational style, but it's hard to come up with films
that do this. Does anyone know if any writing has been done on this
subject? Films imitating music?

thanks,

Oscar


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7242


From: A R Ervolino
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 7:54pm
Subject: RE: Re: Shadows
 
Looking at things again, just from my limited basis of film, a lot of
short films are made from music as well. Something like Madden's Heart
of the World, used a specific piece of music and then made the film
around it.

Also, I'm a person that really like more surreal types of films, such as
Brother's Quay and Jan Svankmajer (as well as the Neo-Realists like
Bertolucci, and of course figures such as Godard). Would anyone have
any interesting or profound films that would be good to see? Something
that pushes film in interesting ways?

-----Original Message-----
From: Jess Amortell [mailto:monterone@m...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 12:39 PM
To: a_film_by@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Shadows

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Fred Camper wrote:
> Does "film" mean only "feature length narrative film with people
walking
> around talking in lip sync"??? WHAT are we talking about here?


This began with a reference to a Bogdanovich quote in which he
presumably *was* talking about narrative features. The quote wasn't
given verbatim, so it wasn't clear whether he had qualified his
statement. Presumably Bogdanovich knows there are other kinds of films,
or if he doesn't, he needs to be corrected, but surely the point was
simply how relatively rare independently-financed *narrative* films were
-- someone then pointed out he'd overlooked one between Othello and
Shadows (Salt of the Earth), and I'd imagine he might have overlooked
any number of others as well (Little Fugitive? Fear and Desire?) but the
point about their rarity, compared to other kinds of independently
financed films, would probably still remain.


_____

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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7243


From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 7:27pm
Subject: Re: "Song" Films
 
Rabbit Moon (the Andy Arthur version) is a great song film. If MTV
were like that, I'd watch/listen to it, but I find the rhythmical et al.
coordination of image and music to be totally web-footed and
tone-deaf any time I look/listen in - and these are shorts created
FOR the music. Odd. Not so Brakhage's mysterious
masterpiece, which was recut to fit an existing song when he
found it. Nonetheless, song and image perfectly serve each
other to magical effect.

The late Lee Beaupre's presskit for Easy Rider described it as
having the structure of a ballad.
7244


From: John Babcock
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 7:36pm
Subject: Re: Dwinell Grant (was: Re: Shadows)
 
I just finished reading a GREAT book on this topic.
"Lovers of Cinema, (The First American Avant-Garde
1919-1945)" Jan-Christopher Horak Editor.. Certainly
all the films described predate "Shadows", "Othello",
etc, and most are indeed independently financed (there
are a few exceptions). It is also interesting because
most discussions of the American a-g begin with tend
to assume the genre begins with Deren, perhaps because
that is where P. Adams Sitney begins his history of
the American a-g.

Oh, and let me introduce myself. I'm John Babcock, a
sometimes filmmaker, currently residing in (although
perhaps not a resident of) LA. Hi.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
7245


From:
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 7:56pm
Subject: Early American Independent Experimental Films
 
Please see the following Senses of Cinema article:
http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/02/21/posner.html

And the following print journal article:
Title: Soul of the Cypress: The First Postmodernist Film?
Author(s): David E. James
Source: Film Quarterly Volume: 56 Number: 3
Page: 25 -- 31
Publisher: University of California Press
Abstract: In the late 1920s, European expatriates in Hollywood made a number of independent experimental films influenced by avant-garde cultural movements. But these were preceded by three short experimental films made in 1920 by an American, Dudley Murphy, of which one, Soul of the Cypress, survives. Influenced by California Pictorialist photography of the preceding decades, it was in its own day recognized as an avant-garde film, but nevertheless it secured successful commercial distribution.
(This article also has info on other early avant-garde films.)

Also, I just watched for the 2nd time on Sundance Chanel:
Im Spiegel der Maya Deren / In the Mirror of Maya Deren (Martina Kudlacek, 2002)
This is a serious, intelligent, documentary biographical film, about the great filmmaker Maya Deren. Kudlacek has researched every scrap of information she can find about Deren. Alexander Hammid, who previously was just a name to me as Deren’s collaborator on “Meshes of the Afternoon”, shows up, talks about Deren, and shows some of the many photographic studies he made of Deren in the 1940’s. Kudlacek, who is Czech like Hammid, previously made a film about him I have not seen. Kudlacek has tracked down many other friends and colleagues of Deren in the US and Haiti. She includes extensive voice recordings made by Deren lecturing about her films. These show Deren to be a wonderfully articulate and intelligent speaker. There is backstage footage, showing Deren making “The Very Eye of Night”. All in all, a worthwhile attempt to capture as much about Deren’s life as still survives.
This film is on Jonathan Rosenbaum's Ten Best list for 2003.

Mike Grost
7246


From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 8:14pm
Subject: Re: Shadows, "Song" films / Ode to Billie Joe
 
1967 song "Ode to Billie Joe" was made into a movie in 1976.

So what did Billie Joe MacAllister throw off the Tallahatchie Bridge?
http://www.geocities.com/odetobobbiegentry/ghannah.htm

I don't know what you mean by structure, but I imagine the film story
follows the lyrics.



--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, A. Oscar Boyson wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone knows some narrative films that mimic the
> structure of a song. It seems like SHADOWS might work for adapting a
> sort of jazz improvisational style, but it's hard to come up with films
> that do this. Does anyone know if any writing has been done on this
> subject? Films imitating music?
>
> thanks,
>
> Oscar
7247


From:
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 3:11pm
Subject: Welles, 'Independent' Cinema
 
Fred is, of course, exactly right about the long and rich history of
independently financed non-narrative films which handily precede Welles' "Othello" and
Cassavetes' "Shadows."

I do think "Othello" might be notable in one respect in terms of this
discussion: might it not be the first instance of a Hollywood filmmaker who had
worked totally within the studio system going out on his own and funding a film
with largely his own money? Anyone can start out doing it that way (cf,
Kubrick's "Fear and Desire") and then 'graduate' to traditionally financed features,
but, as is often observed, Welles was unique in that the trajectory of his
career went in the opposite direction. He began with the greatest contract anyone
had ever had and ended by making films in his home on Hollywood Boulevard.
The wonderful thing is that the films made on Hollywood Boulevard are far
greater than the one made with that amazing contract.

Peter
7248


From:
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 4:16pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadows
 
In a message dated 2/4/04 9:21:21 AM, f@f... writes:
> "I also hate it when "film" is used to mean "lip sync narrative film with
> a story we can understand
> with people talking to each other in lip sync that's roughly feature
> length," or some of the above."
>
I agree wholeheartedly, Fred. I posted the quote without further explanation
because I just assumed everyone on here would think it was patently
ridiculous, probably a wrong move on my part.

Kevin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7249


From:
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 5:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadows
 
In a message dated 2/4/04 12:52:19 PM, monterone@m... writes:
>
> This began with a reference to a Bogdanovich quote in which he presumably
> *was* talking about narrative features.  The quote wasn't given verbatim, so it
> wasn't clear whether he had qualified his statement.  Presumably Bogdanovich
> knows there are other kinds of films, or if he doesn't, he needs to be
> corrected, but surely the point was simply how relatively rare
> independently-financed *narrative* films were
>
As I stated earlier, the quote came from one of the extras on the Decade
Under The Influence DVD. The extra starts with the title: Bogdanovich on "The
First Independent Film." Here is the direct quote:
"Around the same time, '60, uh, Shadows, John Cassavetes' Shadows opened,
which I think was the first American film which was clearly influenced by the
French New Wave in the sense that it was a personal film, a personal film made
for no bucks and uh, and uh, kind of daring. Um, in fact, historically speaking,
it was only the second American film, self-financed and independent, that had
ever happened. The first was Orson Welles' Othello in 1952 which won the
Grand Prize at Cannes. And, um, so you could say independent American cinema
begins with Othello. But it began, as far as we were concerned in New York, with
Shadows."

Nowhere is the word narrative or feature-length uttered. I can't even recall
it being uttered in the entire film. And besides, that's neither here nor
there. Quotes like the above contribute to the idea that certain films (like the
kinds Fred listed) don't count as films.

< (Salt of the Earth), and I'd imagine he might have overlooked any number of
others as well (Little Fugitive? Fear and Desire?) but the point about their
rarity, compared to other kinds of independently financed films, would probably
still remain.>>

What point about their rarity? Not sure what you're getting at here. Are you
saying that it's understandable that Bogdanovich overlooked something like
Salt of the Earth because it's a rare film? I find that hard to believe. I rented
it from Blockbuster Video in the late 1980s. I'm sure Bogdanovich knows all
about it.

Does anyone know how Spencer Williams' The Blood of Jesus (1941) was
financed?

Kevin



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7250


From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 10:24pm
Subject: Independent filmmaking
 
Othello, Quixote and The Other Side of the Wind all started as
conventional productions, and Welles ended up paying for them.
Only the Dreamers fragments and a few of the other fragments
shot by Gary Graver, who owned his own equipment and worked
for nothing, were self-financed from the start. Merchant of Venice
was an "add-on" to a deal with CBS where the budget was just
supposed to pay for a film called "Orson's Bag" (now partly
visible in One Man Band) - OW decided to give them two for the
price of one. As far as I know The Magic Show was self-financed,
but I'm not sure about that.

Film is expensive, so well-paid actors like Cassavetes and
Welles were once likelier to self-fiance narrative features than
their less fortunate colleagues, but it has become more
common today with the advent of cheap equipmenty, digital
shooting and...credit cards. An early forerunner was John Dorr,
who shot his first video feature, Sudz All Duz It All, with a security
camera in the 70s, editing as he shot. Lovely film, and like all of
JD's 4 features, completely self-financed. Our own Dan Sallitt,
who made his first feature at John's LA studio, has always
self-financed, I believe. Then there are the MIA's - Vidor,
Boetticher, Ray.

I have never known how much avant-garde work is literally
self-financed. I believe that today grants pay for a lot of that kind
of filmmaking. I know that Fireworks was self-financed. Was
Deren dipping into her own pocket?
7251


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 2:34pm
Subject: TO HAVE / STUCK ON YOU and VU or lack thereof
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:

> I was referring to a recent discussion here of Curtiz's THE BREAKING
> POINT, which is based on Hemingway's TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT. I'm
actually
> a pretty big fan of THE BREAKING POINT (less so of CASABLANCA), but was
> a little nonplussed to see so many cool reactions to the Hawks,
which is
> for me the Rosetta Stone of cinema. - Dan

Well I'll be darned, I missed the discussion and I didn't even know
Curtiz made such a film. I'd always thought general film appreciation
subordinated TO HAVE to CASABLANCA, whilst auteur culture had it in
reverse. The idea that Curtiz adapted the story (rather, I presume,
than remade the Furthman/Faulkner script) later on down the line
throws in some interesting...well, I'll have to track it down I guess.

> The songs in Stuck on You (without caps) are...

Darn, no dice. This is going to drive me batty.

Maltin's listing for OSMOSIS has it as having been shot in something
called Clairmont-Scope. Now that's a name.

Films shot in an anamorphic widescreen process, that is, the kind
patterned after the original CinemaScope, are becoming more and more
rare. Terence Davies shot HOUSE OF MIRTH in ArriScope, and THE NEON
BIBLE in J-D-C Scope. Spielberg shot MINORITY REPORT in 2.35:1, his
first 'Scope picture since HOOK. But it was Super 35, whereas HOOK
was Panavision. I don't know what the Farrellys used for STUCK ON
YOU, probably Super 35 like everybody else. (The gag where Damon
keeps slipping into frame when shooting the TV show is really odd
since it depends on the widescreen frame to work, and it's a TV show,
and a non-letterboxed one at that.)

-Jaime
7252


From: Jess Amortell
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 0:04am
Subject: Re: Shadows
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:
> < > (Salt of the Earth), and I'd imagine he might have overlooked any number of
> others as well (Little Fugitive? Fear and Desire?) but the point about their
> rarity, compared to other kinds of independently financed films, would probably
> still remain.>>
>
> What point about their rarity? Not sure what you're getting at here. Are you
> saying that it's understandable that Bogdanovich overlooked something like
> Salt of the Earth because it's a rare film?


No, I'm sorry if I created any further confusion -- "the point" (or actually, only my point) was just that self-financed narrative feature films used to be much rarer, obviously, than self-financed films of other kinds, which I assumed was his only reason for talking about it in the first place. Thanks for supplying the actual quote. He does seem to have overlooked Hearts of Age (long before Othello), although I don't know who actually paid for the film stock, etc.
7253


From:
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 7:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadows
 
Jess Amortell wrote:

>The quote wasn't given verbatim, so it wasn't clear whether he had qualified
>his statement.

The trouble is that there's an unspoken context to a documentary like "A
Decade Under the Influence" (just as there is to its literary cousin, Peter
Biskind's awful book "Easy Riders, Raging Bulls"); this is a film which purports to
tell the story of a supposed 'golden age' in American cinema and yet I can't
recall an avant-garde film being mentioned by anyone. During the whole film.
(I wish this was the least of its problems. I'm afraid that even its coverage
of the great narrative filmmakers of this era is highly limited.) But
Bogdanovich is probably more aware of a-g cinema than many Hollywood directors of
his generation. He's a longtime friend and admirer of Jonas Mekas, for starters.

Peter
7254


From:
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2004 7:30pm
Subject: Welles' independent filmmaking
 
Bill Krohn wrote:

>As far as I know The Magic Show was self-financed,
>but I'm not sure about that.

"The Magic Show" (an unfinished film by Welles which was to be comprised of
his greatest magic tricks) is a difficult one. I believe that a fair number of
the segments were self-financed, but Welles also recycled things he shot for
other television specials into "The Magic Show." Jim Steinmeyer, a magician
who knew Welles during the last several years of his life, told me that Welles
would often shoot magic tricks for TV shows and then would end up with the
footage. At least some of it was to be used in "The Magic Show."

In addition to the ones Bill names, other unfinished Welles films financed,
to my knowledge, entirely out of his own pocket:

- "The Deep"

Welles' filmed readings of:
- "Moby Dick"
- "The Golden Honeymoon"
- "The Old Chevalier"
- "The Spirit of Charles Lindbergh"

Maybe Jonathan or others can add to this list.

Peter
7255


From: Richard Modiano
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 4:00am
Subject: Re: Shadows
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:

"Does anyone know how Spencer Williams' The Blood of Jesus (1941) was
financed?"

I read somewhere that it was partially financed by a church group.
Keeping just to narrative films, a number of Afro-American movies and
Yiddishe language movies of the 1930s and 1940s were financed by fund
raising drives from church and temple groups, fraternal organizations
and unions. Brownlow in his "Behind the Mask of Innocence" talks
about this kind of financing in the pre-studio system era of
the 'aughts and 'teens.

Sternberg's THE SALVATION HUNTERS (1926) was financed by the
principle actor George K. Arthur, and his last film ANATATHAN was
partially financed by a Japanese film society.

Richard
7256


From: Fred Camper
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 4:21am
Subject: Re: Film Financing & The Blood of Jesus (was: Re: Shadows)
 
I don't know about how "Meshes" was financied. Those huge voumes of
"Film Culture" on her probably reveal it. But the film doesn't look like
it cost much.

To any who have not seen it, "The Blood of Jesus" is an amazing movie.
I've seen only five Spencer Williams films; this is by far the best of
them. It's made with genuine passion and conviction, and its oddities
are not as amusingly (and endearingly) disjunct as those in "Go Down,
Death."

"The Blood of Jesus" is also one of the few films that I'd purchase the
sound track album of, were it available. The group is "The Heavenly
Choir," and the rough conviction of their singing matches the film's style.

- Fred
7257


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 4:23am
Subject: slowlist
 
I don't know if anybody's experiencing the same problem, but it's
taking the Yahoo! server several hours to put my posts on the list.
For this post of mine:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/a_film_by/message/7251

It was over eight hours between the time I hit "send" and the time
recorded on the board clock, 2:40pm. You can tell by looking at the
time on the message, and checking it against the time on the
"Messages" page.

Don't know what purpose *this* post will serve, just complaining I guess.

-Jaime
7258


From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 4:27am
Subject: Re: Welles
 
Moby Dick the color fragments was self-financed and shot, I believe,
during breaks from Ten Days Wonder; Moby Dick the black-and-white
filmed play was financed by Jolivet, the producer of Arkadin. I think
Welles said that the Old Chevalier, which as far as I know hasn't
surfaced anywhere, was supposed to be Korda, but I'd have to look
back at the interview to be sure. Lindbergh and Golden Honeymoon I
don't know about - the latter will be at the Cinematheque in a couple
of weeks, and Lindbergh is a title that I don't recognize. I'm
surprised to hear that The Deep was self-financed, but it was cheap
enough that I guess could've been. I've never heard of a producer
being involved.
7259


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 4:14am
Subject: the new Francis Coppola film
 
While Sofia is getting all the good press and the Oscar
nominations, her pop, from whom we'd barely heard a peep since
THE RAINMAKER in 1997, has produced, directed, shot, edited, and
released a new film.

In two parts. A grand total of five minutes and sixteen seconds.

It's a promotional film for the new ONE FROM THE HEART 2-disc DVD
(released through Fantoma, the company responsible for a small
catalogue of treasures, the most beloved to me being Sam Fuller's
STREET OF NO RETURN), and you can only see by visiting the Amazon.com
DVD page.

As far as aesthetic and logistic ambitions, it is the polar opposite
of APOCALYPSE NOW. As cinema, it's worthless. (No jokes please,
anti-Coppolaites: I don't consider FFC's four "official classics":
THE CONVERSATION, the first two GODFATHER movies, and APOCALYPSE NOW
worthless, but great.) As advertising it's barely adequate. As a
quantity of behind-the-scenes information it's lacking. As a fluff
piece its sincerity is effective if you don't find FFC (the man
himself) unbearable.

As a statistic, it's vital, and worthy of an a_film_by post, at the
very least. Which this is it.

I saw the film, *on* film, during its re-release late last year - it
looks fantastic and it's fascinating to watch, even if you despise
FFC's "official classics," even if it's just for the sheer Rube
Goldberg complexity of the whole damned bizarre thing; I don't know if
it's a success on the whole, but it deserves better than it
(apparently) received.

-Jaime
7260


From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 5:18am
Subject: Re: Shadows, "Song" films
 
From IMDB -- movies based on songs

The Indian Runner (1991)

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (1978)

Convoy (1978)

Yellow Submarine (1968)

Alice's Restaurant (1969)

Sk8er Boi (2004)

Rudolph, the Red-Nosed Reindeer (1964)

A Thin Line Between Love and Hate (1996)

Born in East L.A. (1987)

Ode to Billy Joe (1976)

Frosty the Snowman (1969)

Purple People Eater (1988)

The Little Drummer Boy (1968)

The Gambler Returns: The Luck of the Draw (1991)

Harper Valley P.T.A. (1978)

Puff, the Magic Dragon (1978)

Kenny Rogers as The Gambler (1980)

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer: The Movie (1998)

Copacabana (1985)

Harper Valley P.T.A. (1981)

Kenny Rogers as The Gambler: The Adventure Continues (1983)

Gambler V: Playing for Keeps (1994)

Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer (2000)

Kenny Rogers as The Gambler, Part III: The Legend Continues (1987)

The Legend of Tom Dooley (1959)

Big Bad John (1990)

Rudolph's Shiny New Year (1976)

Single Bars, Single Women (1984)

Rudolph and Frosty's Christmas in July (1979)

Sir Henry at Rawlinson End (1980)

Dead Skunk (1973)

The Little Drummer Boy Book II (1976)

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (1944)

Boomtown (1985)

Blackfly (1991)

Coward of the County (1981)

Nacht und Trume (1983)

Manuelita (1999)

Puff and the Incredible Mister Nobody (1982)

Mendelssohn's Wedding March (1939)

Break the News to Mother (1919)

Elina, mit m teen? (1999)





--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, A. Oscar Boyson wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone knows some narrative films that mimic the
> structure of a song. It seems like SHADOWS might work for adapting a
> sort of jazz improvisational style, but it's hard to come up with films
> that do this. Does anyone know if any writing has been done on this
> subject? Films imitating music?
>
> thanks,
>
> Oscar
7261


From: Joseph Kaufman
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 5:49am
Subject: Re: TO HAVE / STUCK ON YOU and VU or lack thereof
 
>I don't know what the Farrellys used for STUCK ON YOU, probably
>Super 35 like everybody else.

>-Jaime

STUCK ON YOU, I'm just about certain, was real anamorphic Panavision.
--

- Joe Kaufman
7262


From: A. Oscar Boyson
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 5:00am
Subject: Re: Re: Shadows, "Song" films, GHOST DOG
 
Interesting. I'm not familiar with a lot of these. I'm writing an
article that compares Jarmusch's GHOST DOG to a hip hop song. It's a
pretty out there concept, but I don't think it's too far off to say
he's mixing genres and cultures the way a hip hop dj does, using
dissolves instead of a crossfader. When he samples BRANDED TO KILL and
LE SAMOURAI (butterfly/bird on the sniper rifle scope for BRANDED, car
unlocking device for SAMOURAI), he's updating and adapting parts of
older films to fit his film's needs. This is similar to hip hop, where
"music is sampled from the past to create the rhythmic backing tracks
for the present." All kinds of music are brought together under an
urban veil in hip hop - a process that is replicated with film in GHOST
DOG. It's also worth noting that among hip hop producers, specifically
the RZA (who scored GHOST DOG), the most popular movie genres to sample
dialogue from are Gangster films and Kung Fu/Samourai films - the two
major genres that come together in GHOST DOG. Jarmusch recently said,
in regards to stealing material ("nothing is original"), "don't bother
concealing your thievery - celebrate it if you feel like it." This is
the case with hip hop and with GHOST DOG. The original ingredients
that go into the works are borrowed, but the end product is something
different. This is the song "structure" I'm trying to get it.
Adapting a musical structure instead of editing to music or using large
musical montage sequences seems to be consistent with Jarmusch's
general disgust for music videos. GHOST DOG is a better compliment to
the music.

The Rosenbaum article on Sunrise: a SONG of two humans, was excellent.
This is more what I'm getting at. Rosenbaum and a few other critics
have also compared Jarmusch's "sampling" techniques to those of DJ, so
this isn't a completely new idea. I'm hoping to show how Jarmusch
comments on the international hybrid that is the hitman by using the
hip hop song structure - which brings up a whole new argument.

I know that some of films on this list are more about taking the story
behind a song and turning it into a film or doing a music video type
approach, which is quite different. I'd love to hear any more input on
this subject though, I think it's an interesting idea.

oscar

On Feb 5, 2004, at 12:18 AM, Elizabeth Anne Nolan wrote:

> >From IMDB -- movies based on songs
>
> The Indian Runner (1991)
>
> Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (1978)
>
> Convoy (1978)
>
> Yellow Submarine (1968)
>
> Alice's Restaurant (1969)
>
> Sk8er Boi (2004)
>
> Rudolph, the Red-Nosed Reindeer (1964)
>
> A Thin Line Between Love and Hate (1996)
>
> Born in East L.A. (1987)
>
> Ode to Billy Joe (1976)
>
> Frosty the Snowman (1969)
>
> Purple People Eater (1988)
>
> The Little Drummer Boy (1968)
>
> The Gambler Returns: The Luck of the Draw (1991)
>
> Harper Valley P.T.A. (1978)
>
> Puff, the Magic Dragon (1978)
>
> Kenny Rogers as The Gambler (1980)
>
> Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer: The Movie (1998)
>
> Copacabana (1985)
>
> Harper Valley P.T.A. (1981)
>
> Kenny Rogers as The Gambler: The Adventure Continues (1983)
>
> Gambler V: Playing for Keeps (1994)
>
> Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer (2000)
>
> Kenny Rogers as The Gambler, Part III: The Legend Continues (1987)
>
> The Legend of Tom Dooley (1959)
>
> Big Bad John (1990)
>
> Rudolph's Shiny New Year (1976)
>
> Single Bars, Single Women (1984)
>
> Rudolph and Frosty's Christmas in July (1979)
>
> Sir Henry at Rawlinson End (1980)
>
> Dead Skunk (1973)
>
> The Little Drummer Boy Book II (1976)
>
> Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (1944)
>
> Boomtown (1985)
>
> Blackfly (1991)
>
> Coward of the County (1981)
>
> Nacht und Trume (1983)
>
> Manuelita (1999)
>
> Puff and the Incredible Mister Nobody (1982)
>
> Mendelssohn's Wedding March (1939)
>
> Break the News to Mother (1919)
>
> Elina, mit m teen? (1999)
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, A. Oscar Boyson
> wrote:
> > I was wondering if anyone knows some narrative films that mimic the
> > structure of a song.  It seems like SHADOWS might work for adapting a
> > sort of jazz improvisational style, but it's hard to come up with
> films
> > that do this.  Does anyone know if any writing has been done on this
> > subject?  Films imitating music?
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > Oscar
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/a_film_by/
>  
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7263


From: A. Oscar Boyson
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 5:04am
Subject: Re: Re: Shadows, "Song" films, GHOST DOG
 
And when I say "the international hybrid that is the hitman," I mean
the hitman in film. sorry

On Feb 5, 2004, at 12:00 AM, A. Oscar Boyson wrote:

> Interesting. I'm not familiar with a lot of these. I'm writing an
> article that compares Jarmusch's GHOST DOG to a hip hop song. It's a
> pretty out there concept, but I don't think it's too far off to say
> he's mixing genres and cultures the way a hip hop dj does, using
> dissolves instead of a crossfader. When he samples BRANDED TO KILL and
> LE SAMOURAI (butterfly/bird on the sniper rifle scope for BRANDED, car
> unlocking device for SAMOURAI), he's updating and adapting parts of
> older films to fit his film's needs. This is similar to hip hop, where
> "music is sampled from the past to create the rhythmic backing tracks
> for the present." All kinds of music are brought together under an
> urban veil in hip hop - a process that is replicated with film in GHOST
> DOG. It's also worth noting that among hip hop producers, specifically
> the RZA (who scored GHOST DOG), the most popular movie genres to sample
> dialogue from are Gangster films and Kung Fu/Samourai films - the two
> major genres that come together in GHOST DOG. Jarmusch recently said,
> in regards to stealing material ("nothing is original"), "don't bother
> concealing your thievery - celebrate it if you feel like it." This is
> the case with hip hop and with GHOST DOG. The original ingredients
> that go into the works are borrowed, but the end product is something
> different. This is the song "structure" I'm trying to get it.
> Adapting a musical structure instead of editing to music or using large
> musical montage sequences seems to be consistent with Jarmusch's
> general disgust for music videos. GHOST DOG is a better compliment to
> the music.
>
> The Rosenbaum article on Sunrise: a SONG of two humans, was excellent.
> This is more what I'm getting at. Rosenbaum and a few other critics
> have also compared Jarmusch's "sampling" techniques to those of DJ, so
> this isn't a completely new idea. I'm hoping to show how Jarmusch
> comments on the international hybrid that is the hitman by using the
> hip hop song structure - which brings up a whole new argument.
>
> I know that some of films on this list are more about taking the story
> behind a song and turning it into a film or doing a music video type
> approach, which is quite different. I'd love to hear any more input on
> this subject though, I think it's an interesting idea.
>
> oscar
>
> On Feb 5, 2004, at 12:18 AM, Elizabeth Anne Nolan wrote:
>
>>> From IMDB -- movies based on songs
>>
>> The Indian Runner (1991)
>>
>> Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (1978)
>>
>> Convoy (1978)
>>
>> Yellow Submarine (1968)
>>
>> Alice's Restaurant (1969)
>>
>> Sk8er Boi (2004)
>>
>> Rudolph, the Red-Nosed Reindeer (1964)
>>
>> A Thin Line Between Love and Hate (1996)
>>
>> Born in East L.A. (1987)
>>
>> Ode to Billy Joe (1976)
>>
>> Frosty the Snowman (1969)
>>
>> Purple People Eater (1988)
>>
>> The Little Drummer Boy (1968)
>>
>> The Gambler Returns: The Luck of the Draw (1991)
>>
>> Harper Valley P.T.A. (1978)
>>
>> Puff, the Magic Dragon (1978)
>>
>> Kenny Rogers as The Gambler (1980)
>>
>> Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer: The Movie (1998)
>>
>> Copacabana (1985)
>>
>> Harper Valley P.T.A. (1981)
>>
>> Kenny Rogers as The Gambler: The Adventure Continues (1983)
>>
>> Gambler V: Playing for Keeps (1994)
>>
>> Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer (2000)
>>
>> Kenny Rogers as The Gambler, Part III: The Legend Continues (1987)
>>
>> The Legend of Tom Dooley (1959)
>>
>> Big Bad John (1990)
>>
>> Rudolph's Shiny New Year (1976)
>>
>> Single Bars, Single Women (1984)
>>
>> Rudolph and Frosty's Christmas in July (1979)
>>
>> Sir Henry at Rawlinson End (1980)
>>
>> Dead Skunk (1973)
>>
>> The Little Drummer Boy Book II (1976)
>>
>> Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (1944)
>>
>> Boomtown (1985)
>>
>> Blackfly (1991)
>>
>> Coward of the County (1981)
>>
>> Nacht und Trume (1983)
>>
>> Manuelita (1999)
>>
>> Puff and the Incredible Mister Nobody (1982)
>>
>> Mendelssohn's Wedding March (1939)
>>
>> Break the News to Mother (1919)
>>
>> Elina, mit m teen? (1999)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, A. Oscar Boyson
>> wrote:
>>> I was wondering if anyone knows some narrative films that mimic the
>>> structure of a song.  It seems like SHADOWS might work for adapting a
>>> sort of jazz improvisational style, but it's hard to come up with
>> films
>>> that do this.  Does anyone know if any writing has been done on this
>>> subject?  Films imitating music?
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>>
>>> Oscar
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/a_film_by/
>>  
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>  
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of
>> Service.
>>
>>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
> Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
> Canada.
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> http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/b5IolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
7264


From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 6:31am
Subject: Re: "Song" Films
 
That's quite a list, ER. The first title, The Indian Runner, Sean
Penn's first feature as a writer-director, is based on the Bruce
Springsteen song Highway Patrolman:

My name is Joe Roberts I work for the state
I'm a sergeant out of Perrineville barracks number 8
I always done an honest job as honest as I could
I got a brother named Frankie and Frankie ain't no good

Now ever since we was young kids it's been the same come down
I get a call over the radio Frankie's in trouble downtown
Well if it was any other man, I'd put him straight away
But when it's your brother sometimes you look the other way

(chorus)

I catch him when he's strayin' like any brother would
Man turns his back on his family well he just ain't no good

Well Frankie went in the army back in 1965
I got a farm deferment, settled down, took Maria for my wife
But them wheat prices kept on droppin' till it was like we were
gettin' robbed
Frankie came home in `68, and me, I took this job

I catch him when he's strayin' teach him how to walk that line
Man turns his back on his family he ain't no friend of mine

Well the night was like any other, I got a call `bout quarter to nine
There was trouble in a roadhouse out on the Michigan line
There was a kid lyin' on the floor lookin' bad bleedin' hard from his
head
There was a girl cry'n' at a table and it was Frank, they said

Well I went out and I jumped in my car and I hit the lights
Well I musta done one hundred and ten through Michigan county that
night
It was out at the crossroads, down `round Willow bank
Seen a Buick with Ohio plates. Behind the wheel was Frank

Well I chased him through them county roads
Till a sign said "Canadian border five miles from here"
I pulled over the side of the highway and watched his tail-lights
disappear

Chorus: Me and Frankie laughin' and drinkin'
Nothin' feels better than blood on blood
Takin' turns dancin' with Maria as the band
Played "Night of the Johnstown Flood"

That's essentially the plot of the movie. How Viggo Mortensen could
be so good in that and so blah in Lord of the Rings...
7265


From:
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 3:43am
Subject: Re: Shadows, "Song" films, GHOST DOG
 
One might add that "Le Samourai" (Melville, 1967) also owes a lot to that
pioneer film noir, "This Gun for Hire" (Frank Tuttle, 1942). The plot, characters
and mood in both films is quite similar. It is as if Melville were doing his
own reworking of a classic film noir.
The police station in "Le Doulos" (Melville) reportedly recreates the one in
"City Streets" (Rouben Mamoulian) (a film I have not yet seen).
"This Gun for Hire" has been remade "officially" twice: as "Short Cut to
Hell" (the only film directed by James Cagney, 1957) and as a 1991 cable TV-Movie.
Also, it started Jackie Gleason's career, in an oblique way. Gleason was an
unknown night club performer doing stand-up comedy in 1942. Gleason had a 40
minute sequence in his act in which he told the story of "This Gun for Hire",
playing all the parts in the film. A talent scout in the audience was in
stitches, and it led to Gleason being signed up for a movie contract.
"Ghost Dog" is one of my favorite films of recent years. It has a hypnotic
effect. The early driving sequence, in which the road shots combine with the
music, is wonderful.
Mike Grost
7266


From:
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 8:03am
Subject: Re: [spam] slowlist
 
Yes, my posts have been slow as well. Not sure if my second tirade against
Camp, the movie, ever landed on the list.

Kevin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7267


From:
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 8:14am
Subject: Re: Re: Shadows, "Song" films, GHOST DOG
 
Oscar, props for mentioning the RZA's work (I'm not 100% comfortable with the
word "score" here) on Ghost Dog. The soundtrack album, released by Epic/Razor
Sharp in 2000, is endlessly listenable. I foolishly dismissed it (in print,
no less) when it first came out. Now, I find it's one of the most durable
albums of this decade. Unlike so many Wu-Tang Clan albums, this one offers up a
seductive feast of voices. He fashions true hypnomusic out a single breathy note
of Al Green. Genius.

I hear there's a different version of the soundtrack out in Japan but I
imagine it's more score-like than the version released in the States.

Uh,

Kevin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7268


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 1:56pm
Subject: Re: Re: [spam] slowlist
 
You mean your first tirade wasn't enough?

--- LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:
> Yes, my posts have been slow as well. Not sure if my
> second tirade against
> Camp, the movie, ever landed on the list.
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
7269


From:
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 9:10am
Subject: Re: Re: [spam] slowlist
 
In a message dated 2/5/04 8:01:32 AM, cellar47@y... writes:


> You mean your first tirade wasn't enough?
>

Nope. Does this mean you won't have me over for dinner?

Kevin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7270


From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 3:44pm
Subject: RE: Re: Shadows, "Song" films, GHOST DOG
 
> I hear there's a different version of the soundtrack out in Japan but I
> imagine it's more score-like than the version released in the States.

It's simply the straight soundtrack from the movie without all
the vocals added on.

Jonathan Takagi
7271


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 3:42pm
Subject: Re: Re: [spam] slowlist
 
In the immortal words of Alfred Hitchcock "Ingrid,
it's only a movie."

--- LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/5/04 8:01:32 AM,
> cellar47@y... writes:
>
>
> > You mean your first tirade wasn't enough?
> >
>
> Nope. Does this mean you won't have me over for
> dinner?
>
> Kevin
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
7272


From: samfilms2003
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 4:53pm
Subject: Re: TO HAVE / STUCK ON YOU and VU or lack thereof
 
> something
> called Clairmont-Scope. Now that's a name.

> ArriScope

These would just be whatever anamorphic lenses Clairmont Camera
and Arri are renting; Hawk Anamorphics in the case of of Arri I think.

Advantage of anamorphic, it can contact print to Internegative,
advantage of Super-35, uses spherical lenses, a larger choice of
lenses.... a disadvantage woud be that it requires an optical
printing stage: a possible grain penalty then, but many Directors
& DP's are considering that a non-issue these days.

Some DP's like the characteristics of out-of-focus elements that
anamorphic provides, and depth of field is slightly different.

-sam
7273


From: Joseph Kaufman
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 6:24pm
Subject: Re: TO HAVE / STUCK ON YOU and VU or lack thereof
 
>Advantage of anamorphic, it can contact print to Internegative,
>advantage of Super-35, uses spherical lenses, a larger choice of
>lenses.... a disadvantage woud be that it requires an optical
>printing stage: a possible grain penalty then, but many Directors
>& DP's are considering that a non-issue these days.
>
>-sam

Digital intermediates, which are becoming the norm on big Hollywood
films, and even independent productions, eliminate the optical
printing stage. However one just can't get around the smaller
negative area used in Super 35. The best Super 35 print can't
compare to the best real anamorphic print.
--

- Joe Kaufman
7274


From: George Robinson
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 8:24pm
Subject: Movie Palaces
 
Apologies for cross-listing but I think the denizens of all three of these
lists will be tickled by this website from the University of Virginia:

Some Enchanted Evenings: American Picture Palaces
This site features illustrated essays about the
architectural development of movie theaters, from
nickelodeons to grand palaces during the 1920s, 1930s, and
1940s, in light of the rise of mass consumer entertainment.
Also includes a bibliography. From American Studies at the
University of Virginia.
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~CAP/PALACE/

George (moderately enchanted himself) Robinson

[A]rmaments were not created chiefly for the protection
of the nations but for their enslavement.
--Mark Twain
7275


From:
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2004 8:59pm
Subject: Re:Movie Palaces
 
This site IS enchanted.
When my mother was growing up in Chicago, she went all the time to the Paradise theater. A poor kid like her could escape into one of the great fantasy worlds in American Architecture. The theater was supposed to represent "paradise". You can vaguely see the birds of paradise painted on the theater curtain in the site's photo. There is also a pic of John Eberson, the theater's designer. Eberson also did the Michigan Theater in my home town of Lansing, Michigan, a much more modest but still memorably traditional movie theater. Both of these theaters are gone now - the tearing down in Chicago is always known as "Paradise Lost" (circa 1955).
Mike Grost
who is feeling "footless and wild, like birds of paradise" - S. T. Coleridge, "This Lime Tree Bower My Prison".
7276


From: Fred Camper
Date: Fri Feb 6, 2004 0:31pm
Subject: Our group (all please read)
 
Dear members of a_film_by,

A few complaints from members who felt the volume of posts was becoming
a bit overwhelming have led to a discussion among the founders and a few
others. But most of us agreed our group was functioning really well. So
our main point here is to thank everyone for their contributions.

There is some sentiment for slowing down the pace a bit, asking people
not to exchange back-and-forths to quite the degree sometimes found
here, and to be a bit more considered in their responses. One person
expressed a preference that "that A_Film_By be more like HATARI! and
less like HIS GIRL FRIDAY: active and thoughtful, but relaxed." The
majority felt no changes were needed, and if slowing down doesn't suit
your personal style, then please keep doing what you've been doing. But
you might perhaps want to adjust your rate of posting in relation to the
total volume of posts on a given day, keeping in mind that when the
volume becomes very high some just stop reading the group. Also keep in
mind that if you want to have an extended conversation with someone, you
can use the group's "chat" feature, either immediately or by scheduling
and announcing a chat in advance so that others can join, or if you
prefer so that others can merely observe.

The moderators absolutely do intend to enforce the ban in the Statement
of Purpose against "personal insults against anyone, in or out of our
group." This is not up for discussion, as we see this ban as essential
to our group's proper functioning and to our intent in founding the group.

Please take this occasion to reread the Statement of Purpose, which can
be found in the files section or via a link from our main page
(http:www.fredcamper.com/M/Purpose.html). It was written with some care,
and a few minor changes may have been made since you joined. While it
explicitly permits one-liners, which we did so as not to stifle
discussion, it does place the central emphasis of our group on the art
of cinema from a directorial perspective, and explains that "our main
focus is not on simply naming moods or pleasures, nor on movie gossip or
trivia, though all these can be of interest and are not prohibited, but
in experiencing, and discussing, films in terms of the relationship of
style to meaning." While that *is* our main focus, we also don't want
its reiteration here to sound like it's expressing any criticism of
gossip, posts on the sex lives of directors, et cetera.

We also want to mention this: everyone obviously has different ideas
about what they think of our group and what it should be. We've heard
some of these in the discussions we just had. Some people are annoyed by
one type of post, others by another, and others think everything's fine.
But trying to reflect each individual members' annoyances and
preferences in our policies would be logically impossible, as many are
mutually exclusive, and instituting too many rules would kill the spirit
of our group. If you hate back and forths and discover one, ignore it.
If you don't like one member's posts, ignore them. If you don't have
time to read all the posts in our group, don't. It would be nice if
every post were stellar, but one person's stellar is another person's
boring, and we're just going to have to accept that among posts from 109
people, our current (and new high) number of members, some of us won't
like each other's comments. If we can nonetheless live together, we'll
have accomplished something pretty rare among Internet discussion groups.

Again, thanks to all.

Fred Camper and Peter Tonguette
Co-moderators
7277


From: Raymond P.
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2004 3:31am
Subject: MGM officially recalls Ingmar Bergman collection
 
We have prevailed. Thank you very much, Gary Tooze, for being the
champion of this cause.

Reported from Home Theater Forum:

INGMAR BERGMAN COLLECTION

MGM Home Entertainment will not be releasing the Ingmar Bergman DVD
Collection on Tuesday, February 10 due to transfer problems on two
ofthe discs.

If possible, please hold your reviews until we announce the new
street date which we expect to be sometime in May. We will contact
you once we have further information.
7278


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2004 5:42am
Subject: Boris Barnet redux
 
I enjoyed Jonathan Rosenbaum's recent article on two Barnet films,
OKRAINA and BY THE BLUEST OF SEAS, and hope to see the former for the
first time and see the latter for a second time when the Barnet series
returns to New York, to Anthology Film Archives. (This will be in
March.)

It may have been mentioned already, but I found (as others have) that
Barnet's 1961 film, ALYONKA (alternately, ALENKA), the last in the
series chronology, is the real surprise of a surprising group of
films, perhaps Barnet's greatest, most charming, most dazzling, and
most moving film. I know from speaking with local a_film_by members
Bilge Ebiri and Dan Sallitt that I'm not the only person who gives
ALYONKA the edge over the others (a slight lead, given the
competition), while they are also pretty wonderful, too. (Even DARK
IS THE NIGHT has two dozen striking visual/dramatic moments to offset
its problems.)

I'm bringing this up because someone who has never seen a Barnet may
read Rosenbaum's excellent article, but afterwards, only see the films
he mentioned, BLUEST OF SEAS, OKRAINA, THE HOUSE ON TRUBNAYA SQUARE
(which is great, too), and THE GIRL WITH THE HATBOX, but not think
about seeing ALYONKA. But the reader should see it, twice. Three
times.

-Jaime
7279


From: GaryTooze
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2004 2:38pm
Subject: Bergman Boxset note:
 
Ahhh.. the Internet - wonderful to see it work for a positive goal... and
achieve it !

"MGM Home Entertainment will not be releasing the Ingmar Bergman
DVDCollection on Tuesday, February 10 due to transfer problems on two of
the discs"

As they didn't specify which two - wouldn't it be something is they 1.37'ed
The Serpent's Egg and The Passion of Anna now...

DVDBeaver's review of The Passion of Anna is posted here:

http://www.reviews.dvdbeaver.com/

A solid disc from MGM... I hope the new Shame and Hour of the Wolf will be
at this calibre...

Serpents Egg next....

Cheers,
Gary Tooze




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7280


From: Craig Keller
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2004 5:39pm
Subject: Re: Bergman Boxset note:
 
This is all -fabulous- news -- I bet it's those Amazon reviews that
hurt the most. If MGM were wise, and if it were possible, they would
request Amazon take down the One-Star Page of Shame, then put it back
(with a clean review-slate) closer to the new street date. If you
figure a company putting something like this out will be relying on
Amazon for a large percentage of the sales on such a set, an Average
Customer Rating of 1 out of 5 is really going to hamper how many units
move -- not to mention stats like "27 out of 27 people found this
review helpful."

Just curious -- where did this press release come from originally? Is
it on the MGM site?

craig.
7281


From: Fred Camper
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2004 6:04pm
Subject: Minnelli's "The Pirate," Mizougchi's "Ugetsu," and film vs. video
 
As I mentioned earlier, I looked at two of the three Minnelli films I
recently wrote on in the "Chicago Reader" on video before writing, to
refresh my memory. They are films I'd seen many times before on film,
and the video viewings, while somewhat useful, gave me almost no pleasure.

A few days ago I went to the actual screening of one of them, "The
Pirate," in a very good 35mm print. I thought it was incredibly great,
and was moved to tears near the end. Calling it one of the three
greatest Minnellis, as I had in my review, had given me pause (and I
would now add, based on reseeing it, "Two Weeks in Another Town" -- and
"Four Horsemen" still awaits my viewing in a decent print), but this
viewing certainly confirmed that. It also served to confirm how much
what I love about the film is destroyed by video.

(Caveats: I'm not saying that no one should watch films on video; just
to be aware of what you're doing. Color films translate less well than
black and white films, as a rule. But some color films will translate
better than others. And it wouldn't surprise me if a higher percentage
of films of the last few decades, when directors and cinematographers
knew many would be seeing them on video, reproduced better on video than
the color films of classical Hollywood. And others may be able to get
much more of the kinds of things I care about from video viewings than I
can. But I was struck by a note on a personal Web site that records
disappointment on recently viewing "Bonjour Tristesse" on DVD.
Letterboxed 'Scope with the wrong colors will *not* give you the full
power of Preminger's camera movements, to put it mildly.)

"The Pirate" opens with the pages of a picture book being turned, as
Manuela (Judy Garland) narrates her fantasy life. This is a pretty
standard device. I had forgotten its real impact when I saw the video,
and it didn't make much of an impression. Seeing the film on film
revealed the opening in all its original power, because it serves as a
great metaphor for the visual style of the film as a whole: a series of
fantasy views, a series of theatrical backdrops that present themselves
*as* fantasy (I know the difference between fantasy and reality, Manuela
tells her aunty).

The colors and spaces of the film simply aren't "there" on video; even
though the images are "visible" they just don't have the same impact. My
idea about the book is something one could "get" from the video (though
I failed to) without feeling its power.

Near the end there's a break in the action (avoiding spoilers here) as
Serafin (Kelly) suddenly speaks to the audience in a shallow studio-like
space. Not only is this an acknowledgement of the film's main theme, the
triumph of fantasy/entertainment as a metaphor for human imagination and
possibility, but its self-consciousness renders that triumph all the
more moving. Again, this just doesn't have the same power on video --
especially since we're used to people speaking at us from TV.

The triumph of imagination/fantasy/theater theme only becomes great when
one sees the power of the film's colors. Vividly sensuous but also fake,
intense but unreal, the instability of the compositions and colors has
all the film's passion and knowledge bound together.

For some inexplicable reason, I was incredibly moved (spoilers) by the
transition from Serafin's speech to the final "Be a Clown," placing
Manuela alongside Kelly. I was moved enough that I thought of the ending
of an even greater film, Ugetsu. There (spoilers) the husband as at the
wheel again, where his wife had wanted him to be, while in an incredible
final pan the son brings an offering to her grave against a background
of traditional rural Japan, as the ending answers the chaos of the
opening with its opposite. Here, too, the ending answers the storybook
opening, not exactly with its opposite but with its "correct" and
"possible" version: not dreams of a pirate whose reality will never
match the fantasy, but with fantasy comes alive. Manuela seems in her
"proper" place in the same way that father and son are at the end of
"Ugetsu."

- Fred
7282


From: Kenneth Eisenstein
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2004 6:37pm
Subject: Minnelli's "The Pirate,"
 
Fred,

I too found the jump to the final number "Be a Clown" very powerful.
I think part of it has to do with the grotesqueness of Judy Garland's
makeup and movements.
Her body throughout the film seems trapped or contradicted by her
more formal attire, her body type is not the long and elegant one
that the clothes might require. But in the final scene, the painted
grin, the baggy clothes, and the clown routine seem to make her
whole. The story's conflict is resolved here (although the abrupt
jump to this scene might be read more as an epilogue abstracted from
the story, i.e. she does not really go on the road with Gene Kelly),
but is made more powerful by its resolution being played out on
Garland's body.

Ken Eisenstein
Chicago



>
>For some inexplicable reason, I was incredibly moved (spoilers) by the
>transition from Serafin's speech to the final "Be a Clown," placing
>Manuela alongside Kelly. I was moved enough that I thought of the ending
>of an even greater film, Ugetsu. There (spoilers) the husband as at the
>wheel again, where his wife had wanted him to be, while in an incredible
>final pan the son brings an offering to her grave against a background
>of traditional rural Japan, as the ending answers the chaos of the
>opening with its opposite. Here, too, the ending answers the storybook
>opening, not exactly with its opposite but with its "correct" and
>"possible" version: not dreams of a pirate whose reality will never
>match the fantasy, but with fantasy comes alive. Manuela seems in her
>"proper" place in the same way that father and son are at the end of
>"Ugetsu."
>
>- Fred
>
7283


From: George Robinson
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2004 7:18pm
Subject: Fuller TV Episode
 
Apologies for cross-listing, but I think most of you will want to see this:

Sam Fuller's 90-minute Virginian episode, "It Tolls for Thee" with Lee
Marvin will be on the Hallmark Channel at midnight tonight.

George Robinson


[A]rmaments were not created chiefly for the protection
of the nations but for their enslavement.
--Mark Twain
7284


From: Dave Garrett
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2004 7:33pm
Subject: Re: Boris Barnet redux
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jaime N. Christley" wrote:

> I enjoyed Jonathan Rosenbaum's recent article on two Barnet films,
> OKRAINA and BY THE BLUEST OF SEAS, and hope to see the former for the
> first time and see the latter for a second time when the Barnet series
> returns to New York, to Anthology Film Archives. (This will be in
> March.)

Standard disclaimer about film vs. video applies, but for those who might be
interested, Image Entertainment has scheduled a double-feature DVD of
Barnet's OKRAINA and THE GIRL WITH THE HAT BOX for release in June.

Dave
7285


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2004 8:25pm
Subject: Re: Minnelli's "The Pirate,"
 
--- Kenneth Eisenstein wrote:
>
> Fred,
>
> I too found the jump to the final number "Be a
> Clown" very powerful.
> I think part of it has to do with the grotesqueness
> of Judy Garland's
> makeup and movements.
> Her body throughout the film seems trapped or
> contradicted by her
> more formal attire, her body type is not the long
> and elegant one
> that the clothes might require. But in the final
> scene, the painted
> grin, the baggy clothes, and the clown routine seem
> to make her
> whole.

Garland loved to dress up in outlandish outfits. I
think it freed her from the incredibly strict
standards of "femininity" she knew she could never
live up to. The "Couple of Swells" number in "Easter
Parade" which is quite comparable was a special
favorite of hers. She performed it in her early
concerts with Charles Walters and later with Paul Sand.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
7286


From: George Robinson
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2004 9:46pm
Subject: Re: Fuller TV Episode
 
A further heads up on this show; I'm told it was severely time-compressed
the last time they showed it, so be forewarned.
g

[A]rmaments were not created chiefly for the protection
of the nations but for their enslavement.
--Mark Twain
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Robinson"
To: <;;@grcomm.cnc.net;;>
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 2:18 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Fuller TV Episode


> Apologies for cross-listing, but I think most of you will want to see
this:
>
> Sam Fuller's 90-minute Virginian episode, "It Tolls for Thee" with Lee
> Marvin will be on the Hallmark Channel at midnight tonight.
>
> George Robinson
>
>
7287


From: Doug Cummings
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2004 10:10pm
Subject: Re: Boris Barnet redux
 
>Standard disclaimer about film vs. video applies, but for those who might be
>interested, Image Entertainment has scheduled a double-feature DVD of
>Barnet's OKRAINA and THE GIRL WITH THE HAT BOX for release in June.

Wow, that's great news, Dave. What's your source?

Doug
7288


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2004 10:42pm
Subject: Re: Minnelli's "The Pirate," Mizougchi's "Ugetsu," and film vs. video
 
> can. But I was struck by a note on a personal Web site that records
> disappointment on recently viewing "Bonjour Tristesse" on DVD.
> Letterboxed 'Scope with the wrong colors will *not* give you the
full
> power of Preminger's camera movements, to put it mildly.)

I'm guessing that's my site. I'm sure you're right, but my eyes and
ears just aren't sensitive enough to know the difference. I'll
seriously consider seeing BONJOUR TRISTESSE if it ever shows up at a
Preminger retro or something. For now, the DVD is a godsend after all
the years when the only copy available was the pan & scan videotape.

-Jaime
7289


From:
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2004 8:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: Welles
 
Bill Krohn wrote:

>Lindbergh and Golden Honeymoon I
>don't know about - the latter will be at the Cinematheque in a couple
>of weeks, and Lindbergh is a title that I don't recognize.

"The Spirit of Charles Lindbergh" was simply a filmed letter Welles made for
a friend of his named Bill Cronshaw. It's color, in the naturalistic style of
"Filming 'Othello,'" with Welles speaking directly to the camera as he
recites an excerpt from Charles Lindbergh's diary. It's very simple, was almost
certainly never intended for any kind of conventional release (though it was shot
in 35mm!), and yet it's rather great in the end due to Welles' passionate
delivery and gifts of oration.

Anyone who has seen the documentary "Orson Welles: The One Man Band" can
glimpse some of "The Spirit of Charles Lindbergh"; it's at the very end and you
should be able to recognize it after my description. Unfortunately, the
documentary doesn't identify it at all, so many viewers probably have no idea what
they're looking at.

Welles' other filmed readings are more visually arresting; for example, "Moby
Dick" is simply astonishing to look at. But I'm reluctant to give short
shrift to any of the Welles fragments. Each seems important in its way.

> I'm
>surprised to hear that The Deep was self-financed, but it was cheap
>enough that I guess could've been.

According to Jonathan's chronology at the back of "This Is Orson Welles," the
funding was entirely provided by Welles and Oja Kodar.

Peter
7290


From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Sun Feb 8, 2004 1:13am
Subject: Re: Minnelli's "The Pirate," Mizougchi's "Ugetsu," and film vs. video
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Fred Camper wrote:

> A few days ago I went to the actual screening of one of them, "The
> Pirate," in a very good 35mm print. I thought it was incredibly
>great, and was moved to tears near the end. Calling it one of the
>three greatest Minnellis, as I had in my review, had given me pause
>and I would now add, based on reseeing it, "Two Weeks in Another
>Town" -- and "Four Horsemen" still awaits my viewing in a decent
>print), but this viewing certainly confirmed that. It also served
>to confirm how much what I love about the film is destroyed by
>video. The colors and spaces of the film simply aren't "there" on
>video; even though the images are "visible" they just don't have the
>same impact. My idea about the book is something one could "get"
>from the video (though I failed to) without feeling its power.

I would essentially agree with this as I also saw THE PIRATE again
just a few weeks ago in 35mm. It's a film I know virtually by heart
and the only reason I went to see it again was that a friend asked me
to go with her as she had never seen the film before. And there was
a particular beauty the film had in 35mm. that I hadn't experienced
in years.

Having said this, though, I am also reminded of Daney's piece on THE
PIRATE, written after he had viewed the film again on television.
Daney notes that decorative filmmaking is always the kind which
suffers the most on television. And, of course, Minnelli has always
been accused of being little more than a decorative filmmaker. But
while THE PIRATE loses something in terms of spectacle on TV (as well
as, no doubt, a wealth of small details which add to the meaning of
the film), for Daney the film also gains something in that the force
of the ideas of its mise-en-scene emerge with a certain clarity,
thereby confirming that Minnelli is not simply a decorative
filmmaker. The decor in Minnelli acquires a moral force, a value to
be fought over, in which the sets are essentially given life and
inhabited by the characters through their dreams. Television is
terrified of crowded images (the kind which Minnelli's cinema is
filled with), of the prospect of people bumping into the set and
consequently TV simplifies movement and space. But THE PIRATE
(disinterested as well in the question which concerns so many later
musicals of the expansion of space), confines itself largely to a
vertical space, boxed-in and theatrical, but which fully understands
how to freely move Judy Garland and Gene Kelly through it since it
also understands that when the actors do begin to bump into the set
that their dreams and fantasies are collapsing. For Daney, it is not
THE PIRATE which suffers by being on TV but TV which suffers by
showing THE PIRATE.
7291


From:
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2004 8:45pm
Subject: Clark, Landis
 
Dan Sallitt wrote:

>I don't think Bob Clark is that sort of experience. I like him, but I
>can't say I've ever found him all that visually interesting.

I don't remember "Porky's" as being visually interesting, but "Black
Christmas," for one, is quite dynamic. The sustained use of the killer's
point-of-view seemed to have a profound influence on "Halloween"; Carpenter, with his
polished 'Scope imagery, refined the idea, but Clark did it pretty well himself.
I'd have to see more films by him to determine whether or not "Black
Christmas" is a "one shot" in Clark's canon in terms of visual inventiveness.

We were talking about "Porky's"... on the topic of crass '80s comedies, has
any auteurist ever gotten around to making a case for John Landis? I know Dan
likes at least one of his films, and so does Jaime, so I wonder if an
auteurist reappraisal is far off. I think he may be a case - not without precedent,
obviously - of a director whose oeuvre seems more intriguing and coherent in
retrospect than at the time of the release of his major hits. Thoughts?

Peter
7292


From: Fred Camper
Date: Sun Feb 8, 2004 4:25am
Subject: Re: Re: Minnelli's "The Pirate," Mizougchi's "Ugetsu," and film vs. video
 
Jaime N. Christley wrote:

>I'm guessing that's my site. I'm sure you're right, but my eyes and
>ears just aren't sensitive enough to know the difference....
>
Oh, I really think you'll know the difference.

> For now, the DVD is a godsend after all
>the years when the only copy available was the pan & scan videotape.
>
>
OK, here's my point. I admit that anything can happen when you see this
on film. You might like it even less. You might even hate it. But let's
say there were 100 knowledgeable cinephiles with a reasonably advanced
aesthetic who had your reaction to the DVD:

"....Preminger's rigorously ambivalent style fails to alleviate the
malaise I experience in the company of spoiled rich playboys/-girls on
the French Riviera...."

(fromhttp://www.filmwritten.org/ -- I don't know if you code your site
yourself or create it with some WYSIWYG blog program, but I have to say
I really don't like that form of Web site design that won't let me post
the url to a specific part of it...)

It's my claim that the greatest number would have a very different
reaction to the actual film. What seems like "rigorous ambivalence"
would be revealed, in the film's true color and space, as hypnotic
delirium, erotic enchantment, a crazy imbalance that harks back to
"Whirlpool." So is it a "godsend" if what's great about the film is
being reduced, and yet people are still watching it in this form and
thinking that they've seen it?

- Fred
7293


From: filipefurtado
Date: Sun Feb 8, 2004 5:05am
Subject: Re: Clark, Landis
 
>has
> any auteurist ever gotten around to making a case for John L
andis?

Well, I do like Animal House, Blues Brothers, American
Werefolf in London, Trading Places, Into the Night and Coming
to America a lot. On the other hand, I dont care much to his
90s films (but Blus Brothers sequel is better than the
reviews it got).

Filipe


---
Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.
AntiPop-up UOL - grtis!
http://antipopup.uol.com.br
7294


From: Dave Garrett
Date: Sun Feb 8, 2004 6:01am
Subject: Re: Boris Barnet redux
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Doug Cummings wrote:

> >Standard disclaimer about film vs. video applies, but for those who might be
> >interested, Image Entertainment has scheduled a double-feature DVD of
> >Barnet's OKRAINA and THE GIRL WITH THE HAT BOX for release in June.
>
> Wow, that's great news, Dave. What's your source?

David Shepard, who is producing the disc for Image. I suspect it hasn't been
formally announced yet, but he mentioned it in another forum a couple of days
ago.

Dave
7295


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Feb 8, 2004 8:04am
Subject: Re: Fuller on TV
 
The Virginian epiode was combined with another starring Bronson and
released in France as a feature starring Marvin and Bronson. It was
called, in imitation of the French title of more than one Leone, "Il
etait une fois deux salopards..." ("Once Upon a Time There Were Two
Sonsofbitches..."), and Louis Skorecki gave it a rave review in CdC,
while covering himself by observing that Bronson and Marvin were
never in a scene together. I axctually have, or had, the hybrid on
tape.

The same thing was done with Spielberg's episode of The Psychiatrist,
about a kid with an airplane obsession. These were not simply paired
episodes - someone at Universal edited them together using flashbacks
to make them appaer to be feature films, directed by Fuller and
Charles Marquis Warren in the case of "Salopards."

Later Marvin and Bronson actually did costar in "Arctic Rampage," a
beautiful film directed by Peter Hunt, the Brit who was responsible
for much that's good about the early Bonds, which he edited. "Arctic
Rampage," which is not Hunt's only good film, was originally going to
be directed by Aldrich. Highly recommended.
7296


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Feb 8, 2004 8:14am
Subject: Re: John Landis
 
Landis has a considerable auteurist following, to which I belong. He
is the only Bazinian in the "Second Generation" of directors who
followed Coppola and company, and that sometimes leads people to
mistake his distinctive style for sheer artlessness - it's anything
but. (Unfortunately, when the Red Balloon becomes a helicopter, being
a Bazinian is not a hot idea...) My favorite Landis film is Into the
Night, a must-see for skeptics, but there's very little he's done
that I don't like, including (lest we forget) the "Thriller" video.
His last film was a low-budget indie called Susan's Plan which went
straight to video - a nifty Sundance-y version of his most maudit
project, The Stupids, which I dearly love. And this August IFC will
show his first documentary, about used car salesmen, which starts off
with a montage of lying politicians, including a clip he dug up of
Baby Bush on Polish tv baldly stating that we had actually FOUND
Sadaam's WMDs. But Landis has always been a political filmmaker.
7297


From: George Robinson
Date: Sun Feb 8, 2004 10:03am
Subject: Re: Re: Fuller on TV
 
The version shown on Hallmark was the original Fuller-Marvin-Only, so far as
I know.

Nice to see someone mention Hunt. "Death Hunt," which was the release title
of the Marvin-Bronson film (reuniting them from Dirty Dozen, of course) is a
nice little action film, and I've always thought "On Her Majesty's Secret
Service" which Hunt directed was the best of the Bonds.

g

[A]rmaments were not created chiefly for the protection
of the nations but for their enslavement.
--Mark Twain
----- Original Message -----
From: "hotlove666"
To:
Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 3:04 AM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Fuller on TV


> The Virginian epiode was combined with another starring Bronson and
> released in France as a feature starring Marvin and Bronson. It was
> called, in imitation of the French title of more than one Leone, "Il
> etait une fois deux salopards..." ("Once Upon a Time There Were Two
> Sonsofbitches..."), and Louis Skorecki gave it a rave review in CdC,
> while covering himself by observing that Bronson and Marvin were
> never in a scene together. I axctually have, or had, the hybrid on
> tape.
>
> The same thing was done with Spielberg's episode of The Psychiatrist,
> about a kid with an airplane obsession. These were not simply paired
> episodes - someone at Universal edited them together using flashbacks
> to make them appaer to be feature films, directed by Fuller and
> Charles Marquis Warren in the case of "Salopards."
>
> Later Marvin and Bronson actually did costar in "Arctic Rampage," a
> beautiful film directed by Peter Hunt, the Brit who was responsible
> for much that's good about the early Bonds, which he edited. "Arctic
> Rampage," which is not Hunt's only good film, was originally going to
> be directed by Aldrich. Highly recommended.
7298


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Sun Feb 8, 2004 10:13am
Subject: Re: Minnelli's "The Pirate," Mizougchi's "Ugetsu," and film vs. video
 
> It's my claim that the greatest number would have a very different
> reaction to the actual film. What seems like "rigorous ambivalence"
> would be revealed, in the film's true color and space, as hypnotic
> delirium, erotic enchantment, a crazy imbalance that harks back to
> "Whirlpool." So is it a "godsend" if what's great about the film is
> being reduced, and yet people are still watching it in this form and
> thinking that they've seen it?

It's no use arguing my point since I don't have one that I believe in
- just a generally cool reaction to the movie, based on a dislike for
subject matter/characters that isn't even a reliable indicator of what
I'll like or not - and I agree with you 100%. Nothing would please me
more than to give the film a third chance, or rather, the first chance
that it may never have had.

thanks
Jaime
7299


From: Aaron Graham
Date: Sun Feb 8, 2004 10:48am
Subject: Re: John Landis
 
I'd have to agree that Landis is an auteur, even his "jobs of work"
films carry his distinctive feel that is often highly polictical.
I'd have to say his most personal films would have to be "An American
Werewolf In London", "Into The Night", and "Innocent Blood". But
both "Trading Places" and "Coming To America" fall closely after that.

For anyone that's interested, there's a great interview with the man
at this site (http://www.kcrw.com/cgi-bin/db/kcrw.pl). It doesn't
link directly, but if you search 'The Treatment' for September 10,
2003, it'll show. He mentions that one of his dream projects was/is
Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court".

-Aaron
7300


From: Henrik Sylow
Date: Sun Feb 8, 2004 1:41pm
Subject: Breillat and Anatomy
 
I would like to point the light on Catherine Breillat for a moment, as
I, thru my recent work, have come the conclusion, that she is not only
is an auteur, but also arguable the most interesting, challeging and
groundbreaking female director today, nay forget gender.

There is a touch of Marguerite Durasian sensibility in her films, as
there is a touch of Fassbinderian vulgarity (especially in the
mise-en-scene), perhaps I believe so, because these two aspects are so
ideosyncratical and are so rarely seen.

Breillat often puts rationalism aside, and distills human sexuality to
distinct elements, that dictate what her characters say, thereby
creating a form of deconstructed, almost surreal, logic approaching
the two central motifs of her work: lust and repulsion: the duality of
sexuality.

Equally often reducing characters to objects, serving only to speak
her psychosexual thoughts, her mise-en-scene becomes very surreal and
reminds me of late Bunuel: deconstructed thoughts, posing instead of
acting.

All this combinded, Breillat has now explored human, especially
female, sexuality for ten films. While her latest work, Anatomie de
l'enfer, after the World Premiere was attacked from all sides for
being offensive, pornographis, pointless and disgusting, I have to
say, I consider it her masterpiece. A woman hires a gay man, who is
repulsed by her, to come to her house and watch her, as she wasn't
mean to be watched. Exploring why he is repulsed by her, the man
graduately crosses the borders of his repulsion and experiences pure
sexuality, not based on arousement of the flesh nor gender.

In the world of Breillat, sexuality is above the body, and sex and
sexuality are not necessary the same thing. In Anatomie de l'enfer,
its not. Sex is linked to an object (the body, gender). Sexuality is
of the mind. She elaborated on this in several scenes, but strongest,
where the woman is about to insert a fresh tampon: "Look at it. It has
the same size as a penis, I can insert it without any form of
foreplay. I don't feel anything doing it. If so, why should I feel
anything having sex?"

With Anatomie de l'enfer, Catherine Breillat has taken her exploration
of sexuality to its very limit and beyond, thus reaching the end of
the road she began ten films ago. Once more, she has proven herself to
be one of the most interesting, groundbreaking and challenging of
contemporary directors. Catherine Breillat takes a position in cinema,
where few dare or can follow her, and along with a handful of
directors, she continues to defy conventions of normality and society
and keeps pushing the boundaries of cinema. That makes her an auteur
in my eye.

Henrik


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