Home Film
Art
Other: (Travel, Rants, Obits)
Links About
Contact
a_film_by Main Page
Posts From the Internet Film Discussion Group, a_film_by
This group is dedicated to discussing film as art
from an auteurist perspective. The index to these files of posts can be found at http://www.fredcamper.com/afilmby/ The purpose of these files is to make our posts more accessible, for downloading and reading and to search engines.
Important: The copyright of each post below is owned by the
person who wrote the post, and reproducing it in any form requires
that person's permission.
It is possible to email the author of any post by finding a post
they have written in the a_film_by archives at
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/a_film_by/messages and
emailing them from that Web site.
9901
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu May 13, 2004 6:31pm
Subject: Sadist's Honeymoon
Where can I see HONEYMOON and find out if Dan is the American "Divin
Marquis"?
9902
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu May 13, 2004 7:54pm
Subject: Re: Sadist's Honeymoon
> Where can I see HONEYMOON and find out if Dan is the American "Divin
> Marquis"?
At last, someone has come up with a marketing idea for that film that
works! - Dan
9903
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu May 13, 2004 8:05pm
Subject: Re: Spielberg's Secret Centers
> I studied SCHINDLER'S in college and I think there's a hell of a lot
> to say about it, not necessarily in positive or negative terms, but
> simply as a multi-layered testament of how culture, history and moral
> atrocity are packaged and sold to a global marketplace. I also found
> this to be one of the easiest times I've had locating Spielberg in
> his films -- Schindler's chillingly honest confession to his wife
> that the thing that was missing his whole life that prevented him
> from achieving true success was war, does anyone else read this as
> Spielberg admitting to how he expects to finally get his Oscar for
> going Holocaust on Hollywood?
War has figured in several of his key pictures prior to his Oscar
domination, such as the first and third INDIANA JONES films, EMPIRE OF
THE SUN, THE COLOR PURPLE (the Civil War present in its conspicuous
absence), and of course 1941. And there's more, ALWAYS is a remake of
a WWII male tearjerker, and the militiamen figure in strongly in
SUGARLAND EXPRESS.
But it seems clear that he never projected himself into a movie as a
grown-up (rather than a child's vision of a grown-up) until
SCHINDLER'S LIST, and it's arguable that he hasn't done it since.
Schindler is someone who can only do Good if it means sitting on top
of the world, riding on a wave of his own self-interest. That's where
he (Schindler) finds his center, and that's one of the things that's
fascinating about the picture is the fact that his role as a savior is
somewhat embarrassing for him - a "secret center." And that's what
makes the film's most "notorious" scene (you know the one) actually
work, as far as I'm concerned: he comes face to face with a part of
himself that he's been avoiding and lying about, and realizes he maybe
coulda dealt with it some time ago.
Itzhak Stern: Let me understand. They put up all the money. I do all
the work. What, if you don't mind my asking, would you do?
Oskar Schindler: I'd make sure it's known the company's in business.
I'd see that it had a certain panache. That's what I'm good at. Not
the work, not the work ... the presentation.
And when you were studying the film, Kevin, did you examine the last
part of the following line of dialogue, the film's best-known:
"This list... is an absolute good. The list is life. All around its
margins lies the gulf."
-Jaime
9904
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu May 13, 2004 8:16pm
Subject: Re: Sadist's Honeymoon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > Where can I see HONEYMOON and find out if Dan is the
American "Divin
> > Marquis"?
>
> At last, someone has come up with a marketing idea for that film
that
> works! - Dan
Seriously, Dan, I have no idea what your film is about (if I may
use that infamous phrase)despite Bill's abundant and sort of mouth-
watering comments. Is it available in any form? JPC
9905
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu May 13, 2004 8:28pm
Subject: Re: Godard in Lesinrocks
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ebiri@a... wrote:
> JPC:
> > It certainly must have seemed a bit odd to French audiences
> > to hear all those French characters in "A Tale of Two Cities"
> or "The
> > Story of Louis Pasteur" or "The Train" and countless others speak
> > English.
>
> Well, let's not forget that A TALE OF TWO CITIES is based on a
novel
> by Charles Dickens, an English novelist.
My point, now blurred, was simply this: Hollywood never had qualms
about making historical films set in European and other foreign
countries, and no one seems to ever have objected seriously. Whereas
the mere notion of say a French film about American history (the
Civil War, the War of independence, Watergate or whatever) sounds
ludicrous. It may be interesting to ask oneself why. JPC
9906
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu May 13, 2004 8:47pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sadist's Honeymoon
> Seriously, Dan, I have no idea what your film is about (if I may
> use that infamous phrase)despite Bill's abundant and sort of mouth-
> watering comments. Is it available in any form? JPC
I just sent you a private email about it, Jean-Pierre. - Dan
9907
From: Jerry Johnson
Date: Thu May 13, 2004 8:50pm
Subject: Re: Godard in Lesinrocks
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
>
> My point, now blurred, was simply this: Hollywood never had
qualms
> about making historical films set in European and other foreign
> countries, and no one seems to ever have objected seriously.
As long as the actors speak their English with British accents.
Remember how disconcerting it was for reviewers when Judas popped on
the scene in "Last Temptation of Christ" sporting a blue collar New
York brogue?
9908
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu May 13, 2004 9:07pm
Subject: Re: Godard in Lesinrocks
> My point, now blurred, was simply this: Hollywood never had qualms
> about making historical films set in European and other foreign
> countries, and no one seems to ever have objected seriously. Whereas
> the mere notion of say a French film about American history (the
> Civil War, the War of independence, Watergate or whatever) sounds
> ludicrous. It may be interesting to ask oneself why. JPC
My point, not noticed, was that it doesn't have to sound ludicrous.
But if they do, it's simply that if they were made regularly, they
don't saturate the American film market. It could very well be that
"Americans don't like European films about American events." But I
think it's more like "Americans don't like European films about
American events, unless they do." It's a market issue: if you sell
it, they will come.
-Jaime
9909
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu May 13, 2004 9:52pm
Subject: Re: Godard in Lesinrocks
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jaime N. Christley"
wrote:
>
> > My point, now blurred, was simply this: Hollywood never had
qualms
> > about making historical films set in European and other foreign
> > countries, and no one seems to ever have objected seriously.
Whereas
> > the mere notion of say a French film about American history (the
> > Civil War, the War of independence, Watergate or whatever) sounds
> > ludicrous. It may be interesting to ask oneself why. JPC
>
> My point, not noticed, was that it doesn't have to sound ludicrous.
> But if they do, it's simply that if they were made regularly, they
> don't saturate the American film market. It could very well be that
> "Americans don't like European films about American events." But I
> think it's more like "Americans don't like European films about
> American events, unless they do." It's a market issue: if you sell
> it, they will come.
>
But don't you think that the fact that there are very few such
films in existence (and certainly no French film I am aware of) is
significant? It's not a "market" issue when the product to be
marketted does not even exist (and there must be some good reason for
it not to exist). It's meaningless to say: "Americans don't like
European films about American events" because there are no such
films. Moreover, Americans don't like foreign films, period. The
market for foreign films in the US is something like a fraction of
one per cent. What is considered a "hit" for a foregn film (and they
are few and far between) in the US makes much less money at the BO
than the average American flop. American audiences (unlike film
audiences in other countries) reject both subtitles and dubbing, so
everything non English-speaking is of no interest to them. So why
would they pay to see European actors play George Washington, general
Custer or Abraham Lincoln all speaking French or Italian or whatever?
Also, as far as France is concerned, historical films have never
been the forte of French cinema -- Gance's NAPOLEON and Renoir's LA
MARSEILLAISE notwithstanding. it took an Italian to make a great film
(for TV) about Louis XIV!
9910
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu May 13, 2004 9:55pm
Subject: Re: Godard in Lesinrocks
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Johnson"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
> wrote:
> >
> > My point, now blurred, was simply this: Hollywood never had
> qualms
> > about making historical films set in European and other foreign
> > countries, and no one seems to ever have objected seriously.
>
> As long as the actors speak their English with British accents.
> Remember how disconcerting it was for reviewers when Judas popped
on
> the scene in "Last Temptation of Christ" sporting a blue collar New
> York brogue?
Sure, but I was referring to objection from foreign viewers, not
American ones!
9911
From: Sam Adams
Date: Thu May 13, 2004 11:54pm
Subject: Re: Godard on American History
Go even further back to Zemeckis' first feature, I WANNA HOLD YOUR HAND, about a
group of teenagers crashing the Ed Sullivan show during the Beatles' performance. The
Beatles "appear" with their faces or bodies hidden by moving equipment, pieces of the set,
etc. in a playful way that's more convincing for its ostentatious falsity. (Compare the digital
fakeries in GUMP.) I think that Zemeckis is (or was) at least aware of the history-as-theme
park approach; the performances in the 1950s segments of BACK TO THE FUTURE are
obviously 50s-movie performances. (It's not so far from Bob Hoskins in ROGER RABBIT). I
haven't watched BTF in a long time, but it occurs to me you could at least potentially view
it as an ironic commentary on the country's swing to the political right, and the desire to
rewrite history and take the nation back to the values of the Eisenhower era. I do recall the
50s characters' incredulity over the idea that a b-movie actor could ever become
president. On a side note, a friend of mine is thinking about programming a series of films
on American presidents in time for the fall, and he's discovered that seem to be none
where Reagan is concerned. Perhaps filmmakers felt they couldn't compete with the movie
being staged in the White House every day.
My thoughts on SADDEST MUSIC, brilliant and otherwise, are here:
http://citypaper.net/articles/2004-05-13/movies2.shtml
Sam
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Lee" wrote:
> I think that
> > (following ronnie Scheib) American cinema under Reagan is typified
> by
> > the nostalgia of Back to the Future. That is still a film about
> where
> > we come from (the 50s), and it even portrays an experiment in
> > historical engineering, trying to change the past to change the
> > present. But the result is: No present.
>
> My goodness, you're right, and now I see how BACK TO THE FUTURE could
> be viewed as a blueprint for Zimeckis' major "historical engineering"
> experiment, FORREST GUMP. Do you see this as a recurring theme in
> Zimeckis' films (how would ROGER RABBIT figure into this? Or CAST
> AWAY -- a film that in a sense is about trying to escape from a
> seemingly inescapable present?
9912
From:
Date: Thu May 13, 2004 8:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: Godard on American History
There are a few French language films with non-French characters & settings.
Some good ones:
La Kermesse héroique (Jacques Feyder, 1934) Holland
La Ronde (Max Ophuls, 1950) Austria
Lola Montès (Max Ophuls, 1955) Bavaria
Ali Baba (Jacques Becker, 1954) Arabia
L'Aveu (Constantin Costa-Gavras, 1970) Czechoslovakia
Still, these are very rare.
Ther are quite a few French films about French speakers living in remote
regions of the Earth - Beau Travail, Indochine, Sucre amer. Apparently the French
accept a movie if it is about Francophones abroad. But they rarely depict
non-French-speakers in their films.
A puzzle!
Mike Grost
9913
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 0:13am
Subject: Re: Godard in Lesinrocks
Jean-Pierre, can we make it clear what type of film we're discussing?
I've already mentioned the existence of Italian westerns (filmed in
Italy, with multiple language tracks), even a German one (*in*
German), and a major contemporary German filmmaker who has made
several films about American matters (the slave trade in Columbia, the
Spanish colonial expeditions in South America).
Shall we say, for the sake of argument:
- films made in Europe
- by indigenous filmmakers
- about events taking place in America, recognizable to an educated
American adult
- in the language of the country in which it is made
Off the top of my head, it's true, I cannot think of a film that meets
these qualifications. Part of the reason, perhaps, is that, if a film
like this was made (and we cannot deny that there *may* be, unless we
are familiar with every film that has been made in Europe over the
past hundred ten years), I can't remember it, or have never come in
contact with it. I'd like to think I've got a pretty healthy exposure
to many different kinds of cinema for a person my age, but there are a
lot of worlds I have yet to explore.
> But don't you think that the fact that there are very few such
> films in existence (and certainly no French film I am aware of) is
> significant?
No other film industry, period, has had the pervasive quality of
Hollywood. A given country in Asia, Europe, South America, the Middle
East, etc. is unlikely to have exposure to films that come from
outside national or regional boundaries - unless it is a Hollywood
product. This is evident to me when I scan the country-by-country box
office grosses listed in Variety.
> Moreover, Americans don't like foreign films, period. The
> market for foreign films in the US is something like a fraction of
> one per cent.
I won't debate this. America has a serious deficit in "art
appreciation": our culture is based on commercial, industrial, and
military - not cultural - advancement. This is true, it is sad, it
is not to be taken lightly. That said, the people I know who take
cinema seriously, or are on their way to doing so, not only "like
foreign films" but are actively in the process of eliminating the idea
of a "foreign film."
> Also, as far as France is concerned, historical films have never
> been the forte of French cinema -- Gance's NAPOLEON and Renoir's LA
> MARSEILLAISE notwithstanding. it took an Italian to make a great film
> (for TV) about Louis XIV!
Why is this so? (Now we're onto something.)
-Jaime
9914
From:
Date: Thu May 13, 2004 9:10pm
Subject: Re: Godard on American History (more)
During the silent era, filmmakers in Germany made films setr in other
countries:
Madame DuBarry (Lubitsch) France
Der Spinnen (Lang) USA, Central America
Spione (Fritz Lang) England, apparently
One commercial possibility. If a European filmmaker wants to set a film in
the US, he can "break into the American market" by making it in English. Look at
Lion's Love, Model Shop, The Emigrants, WR-Mysteries of the Organism,
Providence, Paris, Texas, Lars van Trier, and lots of Italian westerns. This would
tend to keep European filmmakers from making US-set films in French, Italian,
Czech, Serbian, etc.
Mike Grost
9915
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 1:15am
Subject: Re: Godard on American History
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> There are a few French language films with non-French characters &
settings.
> Some good ones:
> La Kermesse héroique (Jacques Feyder, 1934) Holland
> La Ronde (Max Ophuls, 1950) Austria
> Lola Montès (Max Ophuls, 1955) Bavaria
> Ali Baba (Jacques Becker, 1954) Arabia
> L'Aveu (Constantin Costa-Gavras, 1970) Czechoslovakia
>
> Still, these are very rare.
> Ther are quite a few French films about French speakers living in
remote
> regions of the Earth - Beau Travail, Indochine, Sucre amer.
Apparently the French
> accept a movie if it is about Francophones abroad. But they rarely
depict
> non-French-speakers in their films.
> A puzzle!
>
Just my point. But not really a puzzle. They (the filmakers) know
what they can and cannot do. They're reasonable and careful.
Hollywood on the other hand thinks it can do anything and just goes
ahead and does it. JPC
> Mike Grost
9916
From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 1:30am
Subject: Re: Yousry Nasrallah / Cannes
> The movie is certainly to be seen. Former assistant of Youssef
> Chahine, Yousry Nasrallah quick appeared as more than a talented
> disciple. If "Mercedes" was quite rightly praised, his '95
> documentary "On Boys, Girls and the Veil" is also remarkable.
> Dealing with an eternal and simple (?) subject (women and men, how
> does it work), this honest film is constantly moving, through a true
> attention to his characters, their hope and their distress.
Thank you, Maxime. I've just come across your posting -- very helpful if the Nasrallah
makes it to the fall fests.
Everything I've read on the Kore-eda -- mostly negative -- just makes me want to
see it more. And can I say...Peter Brunette is a nice guy, but his reports for indieWIRE
are knuckleheaded. He has called DISTANCE "completely impenetrable", and writes
that Kore-eda's latest needs to be "brutally pared by at least an hour to be
comercially -- or even artistically -- viable". We already have one Variety, why does
Brunette think he has to repeat the formula (while adding extraneous insults)? I don't
think he has anything else to say.
Tarantino is the most goofy jury president I have ever seen. "...festival MAGNIFIQUE!
Vive le cinema!" You can see he spent some time learning to pronounce the names of
the jury members.
Gabe
9917
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 1:33am
Subject: Re: Godard in Lesinrocks
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jaime N. Christley"
wrote:
> Jean-Pierre, can we make it clear what type of film we're
discussing?
> I've already mentioned the existence of Italian westerns (filmed in
> Italy, with multiple language tracks), even a German one (*in*
> German), and a major contemporary German filmmaker who has made
> several films about American matters (the slave trade in Columbia,
the
> Spanish colonial expeditions in South America).
>
You're right. I thought it was clear but it was not. I originally
responded to the suggestion of a French movie about American history
(Civil War, War of Independence, real historical stuff)and someone --
by now I forget who -- said that would seem "odd" (you know,
Americans speaking French), and I responded, well, Hollywood has been
doing this sort of thing forever, but it's true that French cinema
has never done it. Now you could drag up some French pseudo "western"
filmed in Basque country in 1927 or 1932, but it's an overwhelming
fact that no real historical film about US history has ever been made
in France (barring some extraordinary discovery in some far-away
vaults).
> Shall we say, for the sake of argument:
>
> - films made in Europe
> - by indigenous filmmakers
> - about events taking place in America, recognizable to an educated
> American adult
> - in the language of the country in which it is made
>
> Off the top of my head, it's true, I cannot think of a film that
meets
> these qualifications. Part of the reason, perhaps, is that, if a
film
> like this was made (and we cannot deny that there *may* be, unless
we
> are familiar with every film that has been made in Europe over the
> past hundred ten years), I can't remember it, or have never come in
> contact with it. I'd like to think I've got a pretty healthy
exposure
> to many different kinds of cinema for a person my age, but there
are a
> lot of worlds I have yet to explore.
We're in perfect agreement here!!
>
> > But don't you think that the fact that there are very few such
> > films in existence (and certainly no French film I am aware of)
is
> > significant?
>
> No other film industry, period, has had the pervasive quality of
> Hollywood. A given country in Asia, Europe, South America, the
Middle
> East, etc. is unlikely to have exposure to films that come from
> outside national or regional boundaries - unless it is a Hollywood
> product. This is evident to me when I scan the country-by-country
box
> office grosses listed in Variety.
>
> > Moreover, Americans don't like foreign films, period. The
> > market for foreign films in the US is something like a fraction
of
> > one per cent.
>
> I won't debate this. America has a serious deficit in "art
> appreciation": our culture is based on commercial, industrial, and
> military - not cultural - advancement. This is true, it is sad, it
> is not to be taken lightly.
But you are assuming -- like many seem to -- that foreign=
cultural. However, the mass audience in the US is just as hostile
to "commercial" foreign stuff as to "auteur cinema". Attempts to
market hugely successful (in France) lowbrow comedies have flopped
disastrously here.
That said, the people I know who take
> cinema seriously, or are on their way to doing so, not only "like
> foreign films" but are actively in the process of eliminating the
idea
> of a "foreign film."
Of course. But we're talking about that fraction of one per cent of
the audience.
>
> > Also, as far as France is concerned, historical films have
never
> > been the forte of French cinema -- Gance's NAPOLEON and Renoir's
LA
> > MARSEILLAISE notwithstanding. it took an Italian to make a great
film
> > (for TV) about Louis XIV!
>
> Why is this so? (Now we're onto something.)
To be continued... JPC
>
> -Jaime
9918
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 2:00am
Subject: Re: Godard in Lesinrocks
> You're right. I thought it was clear but it was not. I originally
> responded to the suggestion of a French movie about American history
> (Civil War, War of Independence, real historical stuff)and someone --
> by now I forget who -- said that would seem "odd" (you know,
> Americans speaking French), and I responded, well, Hollywood has been
> doing this sort of thing forever, but it's true that French cinema
> has never done it. Now you could drag up some French pseudo "western"
> filmed in Basque country in 1927 or 1932, but it's an overwhelming
> fact that no real historical film about US history has ever been made
> in France (barring some extraordinary discovery in some far-away
> vaults).
But even then, it's from a vault!
> I'd like to think I've got a pretty healthy
> exposure
> > to many different kinds of cinema for a person my age, but there
> are a
> > lot of worlds I have yet to explore.
> We're in perfect agreement here!!
Well, I had to grease the rails a bit by telling you something you
wanted to hear and that you already know, i.e. that I'm young and
inexperienced.
> But you are assuming -- like many seem to -- that foreign=
> cultural.
No, I'm not assuming anything. I am putting it to you that the same
impulses required by the average American viewer to pursue "foreign"
films are also required to seek out "culture."
> However, the mass audience in the US is just as hostile
> to "commercial" foreign stuff as to "auteur cinema". Attempts to
> market hugely successful (in France) lowbrow comedies have flopped
> disastrously here.
> Of course. But we're talking about that fraction of one per cent of
> the audience.
As far as film goes, it's the only percent that matters to me. What
the hell do I care what Joe at the fish market thinks about TROY?
-Jaime
9919
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 3:09am
Subject: Re: Godard on American History (more)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> During the silent era, filmmakers in Germany made films setr in
other
> countries:
> Madame DuBarry (Lubitsch) France
> Der Spinnen (Lang) USA, Central America
> Spione (Fritz Lang) England, apparently
>
> One commercial possibility. If a European filmmaker wants to set a
film in
> the US, he can "break into the American market" by making it in
English. Look at
> Lion's Love, Model Shop, The Emigrants, WR-Mysteries of the
Organism,
> Providence, Paris, Texas, Lars van Trier, and lots of Italian
westerns. This would
> tend to keep European filmmakers from making US-set films in
French, Italian,
> Czech, Serbian, etc.
>
> Mike Grost
Again, Mike, I was NOT talking about a European filmmaker making
just any film set in the US, I was talking about a HISTORICAL film
about American history (Civil War etc...)with historical characters.
This is not the case of any of the films you mentioned above,or of
films like "Zabriskie Point" or recently Dumont's film. Of course
any director from Europe can theoretically make a film in the US in
English -- although few do these days (it used to be very different
of course in the days of Lubitsch, Preminger, Renoir even... which is
another subject) just as few American directors make films in France
in French or in Germany in German etc... For one thing there are
cultural barriers, not to mention the major barrier -- language.
9920
From:
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 2:48am
Subject: Truffaut
Very glad to hear from another fan of "The Last Metro," Bill. The two other
Truffauts you pair with it as being "minor but perfect" - "Stolen Kisses" and
"Small Change" - already have fairly decent reps, but, as I say, I've never
really talked to an auteurist who has much good to say about "The Last Metro."
Maybe I just don't get around enough. Has anyone written about the final
scene where Truffaut switches from shooting on a real location (with people
visible outside the window) to a stage with a backdrop?
On a similar note, I was pleased to hear that Bilge considers "Love on the
Run" to be a great film. I always find it fascinating when a filmmaker is able
to deal with footage from his or her previous films in a new context, just as
I find Welles subtly re-editing clips of "Othello" for "Filming Othello"
fascinating and revealing.
I've never been as sure of "Day for Night" visually as I am of the images of
"Adele H." or "The Green Room" or "Confidentially Yours." But it's certainly
a very enjoyable movie and immensely endearing.
And I guess the "Mississippi Mermaid" cult is in full force these days, so I
don't need to defend that one. Anyone for "Antoine et Colette"?
Peter
9921
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 11:18am
Subject: Re: Godard on American History
I haven't watched BTF in a long time, but it occurs to me you could
at least potentially view
> it as an ironic commentary on the country's swing to the political
right, and the desire to
> rewrite history and take the nation back to the values of the
Eisenhower era.
Or rewriting the Eisenhower era in order to make the Reagan era
possible, which is what happens in the film. As Kevin notes, the
project continues in Gump. I think Zemeckis is someone like Spielberg
who has lived his life on a soundstage. The only real thing that ever
happened to him was the death of his wife shortly after their
marriage.
Of course you could say thta Hitchcock lived on a soundstage too, and
you'd be right. Olivier Assayas told me years ago that he thinks that
Hitchcock had a pernicious influence on the H'wd that sprang up after
him because he was an emigre making films about an America that
existed only on a soundstage. Yes and no, I'd say.
9922
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 11:48am
Subject: Re: Godard in Lesinrocks
\
> Also, as far as France is concerned, historical films have
never
> been the forte of French cinema -- Gance's NAPOLEON and Renoir's LA
> MARSEILLAISE notwithstanding. it took an Italian to make a great
film
> (for TV) about Louis XIV!
This is also part of Godard's point in his remark about (implicitly)
Les egares.
Again, I'm quoting his presumed source, Jacques Ranciere: Historical
films in the broader sense of myths of origin are easy to make here,
because we had no trouble showing the Native American genocide in our
westerns, whereas showing the origins of the Third Republic (I hope I
got that right) would have entailed creating a comparable genre where
working-class French people are blown sky high in the streets of
Paris to great applause. Myths of origin: Birth of a Nation, most
westerns (note how often an episode of American history is the
background of even the most abstract westerns), Grapes of Wrath or
Young Mr. Lincoln, Red River or Land of the Pharoahs, A Star Is Born,
North by Northwest (which was conceived as a film that starts at the
United Nations and ends up on Mount Rushmore), Chinatown, Back to the
Future or Roger Rabbit, Schindler's List. And once you accept
allegory (of current situations), the list of American historical
films quadruples. Pierre Rotenberg's comments about A Woman Under the
Influence and the Civil War appeared in CdC after Ranciere's famous
interview about film and History.
Being able to recount History also means greater ease telling a story
(une histoire with a small H). Sure French films tell stories, but
they have a very different shape to them, and could be described
(provocatively) as non-historical: a Renoir film is a scale model of
society cut off from History (even though the best one, Rules of the
Game, was a prophetic film), and a Bresson-inspired modernist film
(say, The 400 Blows) is about a character (often a child) who is
outside that clockwork society, and through whose alienated eyes we
see it. These films don't really have stories in the sense that H'wd
films do. After the end of the Maoist period the Cahiers under Daney
made "[inability to/abilty to] tell a story" the yes/no that replaced
bourgeois/not-bourgeois (something French-influenced people here
never got around to thinking about). They were talking about American
films too, but they were talking mainly about their own cinema, as
CdC always does: the main purpose of the magazine has always been to
nourish French cinema with critical ideas. Godard is still doing it,
and you shouldn't take him literally about these matters. He is a
poet, after all.
Of course there are French films which aren't subject to this
criticism. La Marseillaise is a great historical film, which Comolli
et al. held up as an example for political filmmakers in the 70s, and
Comolli's own films, fiction or documentaries (often set in
Marseilles), certainly aim to be historical.
9923
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 11:59am
Subject: Re: Godard in Lesinrocks
we're talking about that fraction of one per cent of
> the audience.
In 1975 I spoke to an arthouse exhibitor who had started booking
films like Jeanne d'Arc in the 50s in Chicago because he noticed that
he wouldn't get everyone, but he would get 1%. The actual percentage
of non-H'wd (including American indie=American art-house) films in
distribution goes up and down according to whether the screens in the
US are over- or uner-booked with H'wd product. The last big wave of
foreign film distribution, which happened before most members of this
list were going to the movies, was the result of one of those dips in
H'wd production, and look at the influence it had! In subsequent dips
less foreign-language cinema seeped in because of the growth of
English art-house and American art-house filmmaking. Now DVDs
(particularly for people with all-zone players, easy to come by) are
filling the gap in theatrical distribution of films from abroad. many
seem to come from England, where the subtitles are put on so we can
follow them.
9924
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 1:20pm
Subject: Re: Truffaut
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
> Very glad to hear from another fan of "The Last Metro," Bill. The
two other
> Truffauts you pair with it as being "minor but perfect" - "Stolen
Kisses" and
> "Small Change" - already have fairly decent reps, but, as I say,
I've never
> really talked to an auteurist who has much good to say about "The
Last Metro."
> Maybe I just don't get around enough. Has anyone written about the
final
> scene where Truffaut switches from shooting on a real location
(with people
> visible outside the window) to a stage with a backdrop?
>
I don't see why "Baisers voles" is "minor" (I don't believe Bill
subscribes to a theory of the hierarchy of genres!). It's like
saying "Singin' in the Rain" is "minor but perfect" (or perfect but
minor).
I have never been a great fan of "The Last Metro" but every time
I run it again (usually upon request, and reluctantly) I end up by
enjoying it a lot. I guess it grows on you... Perhaps part of this
curious fondness has to do with the childhood memories it evokes ---
like the pop song ("Zumba Zumba") the group sings in the restaurant
scene (which of course would evoke nothing for an American viewer)
[parenthesis: there is an article to be written about the use of pop
songs by characters in French films -- a typical new-wave trend that
continues to these days]... The final scene is a neat trick. Since
you have no clue that the scene takes place on a theatre stage and is
the end of a play you ask yourself "How could FT be so careless as to
use that phony backdrop?" Then it's curtain time and you realize
you've been tricked. It's a fitting conclusion to a film about the
theater in which scenes off stage often look "staged' in a theatrical
fashion. JPC
> Peter
9925
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 2:22pm
Subject: Re: Re: Truffaut
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
>
> I don't see why "Baisers voles" is "minor" (I
> don't believe Bill
> subscribes to a theory of the hierarchy of genres!).
> It's like
> saying "Singin' in the Rain" is "minor but perfect"
> (or perfect but
> minor).
>
Saying "Singin' in the Rain" is "minor" is like saying
the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is "minor." It's a
deeply profound work of art.
I wish I could say the same about "Baisers Voles' But
I can't. It's enjoyable. It's well-made. It's
completely successful at what it's trying to do. But
other Truffaut's have more heft,IMO.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9926
From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 2:44pm
Subject: RE: Re: Yousry Nasrallah / Cannes
> Everything I've read on the Kore-eda -- mostly negative -- just
> makes me want to
> see it more.
That's funny, a lot of what I've read has been positive,
even in the trade magazines like Hollywood Reporter.
Sounds like "Nobody Knows" would make a good companion film
to Isild le Besco's "Half Price".
Jonathan Takagi
9927
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 2:58pm
Subject: Foreign film distribution in the US
> The actual percentage
> of non-H'wd (including American indie=American art-house) films in
> distribution goes up and down according to whether the screens in the
> US are over- or uner-booked with H'wd product. The last big wave of
> foreign film distribution, which happened before most members of this
> list were going to the movies, was the result of one of those dips in
> H'wd production, and look at the influence it had! In subsequent dips
> less foreign-language cinema seeped in because of the growth of
> English art-house and American art-house filmmaking.
I wouldn't know how to quantify this, but I have the feeling that
foreign film distribution, in NYC at least, is way more adventurous now
than it was in, say, the 80s. I wouldn't be surprised if we were on a
par with the 60s and 70s in that regard. So many foreign films with
very little commercial potential seem to make it to NYC theaters for a
week or two these days. - Dan
9928
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 3:07pm
Subject: Re: Foreign film distribution in the US
That's why
href="http://ehrensteinland.com/htmls/g001/hu.html"
target="_blank">Marcus Hu is my hero!
--- Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > The actual percentage
> > of non-H'wd (including American indie=American
> art-house) films in
> > distribution goes up and down according to whether
> the screens in the
> > US are over- or uner-booked with H'wd product. The
> last big wave of
> > foreign film distribution, which happened before
> most members of this
> > list were going to the movies, was the result of
> one of those dips in
> > H'wd production, and look at the influence it had!
> In subsequent dips
> > less foreign-language cinema seeped in because of
> the growth of
> > English art-house and American art-house
> filmmaking.
>
> I wouldn't know how to quantify this, but I have the
> feeling that
> foreign film distribution, in NYC at least, is way
> more adventurous now
> than it was in, say, the 80s. I wouldn't be
> surprised if we were on a
> par with the 60s and 70s in that regard. So many
> foreign films with
> very little commercial potential seem to make it to
> NYC theaters for a
> week or two these days. - Dan
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9929
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 6:18pm
Subject: Re: Truffaut
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I don't see why "Baisers voles" is "minor" (I
> > don't believe Bill
> > subscribes to a theory of the hierarchy of genres!).
> > It's like
> > saying "Singin' in the Rain" is "minor but perfect"
> > (or perfect but
> > minor).
> >
> Saying "Singin' in the Rain" is "minor" is like saying
> the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is "minor." It's a
> deeply profound work of art.
>
> I wish I could say the same about "Baisers Voles' But
> I can't. It's enjoyable. It's well-made. It's
> completely successful at what it's trying to do. But
> other Truffaut's have more heft,IMO.
>
>
> Define "heft". Give examples.
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9930
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 6:28pm
Subject: Re: Foreign film distribution in the US
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> I wouldn't know how to quantify this, but I have the feeling that
> foreign film distribution, in NYC at least, is way more adventurous
now
> than it was in, say, the 80s. I wouldn't be surprised if we were
on a
> par with the 60s and 70s in that regard. So many foreign films
with
> very little commercial potential seem to make it to NYC theaters
for a
> week or two these days. - Dan
Maybe, but one or two weeks in one small theater in New York is
insignificant in terms of distribution, exposure, audience, box
office... It's nice if you live in New York but not so nice for the
rest of the country or for the films themselves (although modest
theatrical release may lead to video/DVD and thus to a wider
audience -- but still a very tiny one). JPC
9931
From: Jerry Johnson
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 6:30pm
Subject: Rosenbaum's Cannon
I just ordered it.
1000 favorite films. Way to throw down the gauntlet!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
/0801878403/ref=ase_chicagoreadercom/104-3169641-8691140?
v=glance&s=books
9932
From: Doug Cummings
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 6:50pm
Subject: Re: Rosenbaum's Cannon
>I just ordered it.
>
>1000 favorite films. Way to throw down the gauntlet!
Well it's only roughly ten films a year 1895-2003, and his selections
are merely listed as an appendix--no commentary, just titles, so I
was a bit disappointed. The rest of the articles in the book are
mostly all culled from previously published Reader essays.
Doug
9933
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 6:48pm
Subject: Re: Re: Truffaut
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
> >
> >
> > Define "heft". Give examples.
> >
The flashback explaining Charlie's past in "Tirez Sur
le Pianist."
Catherine's bottle of Vitriol in "Jules et Jim"
Belmondo and Deneuve disposing the prying Michel
Bouquet in "La Sirene du Mississipi"
Adele's climactic walk in which she fails (or
refuses?) to recognize her beloved in "L'Histoire
D'Adele H."
All these moments, and more, are ivotal. The movies
either shift or resolve on them, and I can't find
anything comparable in "Baisers Voles."
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9934
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 6:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: Foreign film distribution in the US
> Maybe, but one or two weeks in one small theater in New York is
> insignificant in terms of distribution, exposure, audience, box
> office...
Was it much different in the 60s and 70s, though? I didn't really start
watching until the mid-70s, but my impression is that major foreign
films would often leave town pretty quickly. - Dan
9935
From: Doug Cummings
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 6:57pm
Subject: Re: Rosenbaum's Cannon
>The rest of the articles in the book are mostly all culled from
>previously published Reader essays.
I should note, however, that the essays are marvelous! :)
(Especially if you haven't already had the pleasure of reading
Jonathan Rosenbaum's writing the past few years...)
Doug
9936
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 7:05pm
Subject: Re: Truffaut
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Define "heft". Give examples.
> > >
>
> The flashback explaining Charlie's past in "Tirez Sur
> le Pianist."
>
Which, to respond to an earlier remark, contains the Under Capricorn
part of that film - Theresa's confession; the They Live By Night part
is everything around the flashback.
I did include Baisers voles in my list of materpieces at the start of
his career, and compared them to the run Hitchcock had starting with
Strangers on a Train, until Torn Curtain broke the string. In this
context Baisers voles would be the To Catch a Thief, not the Trouble
with Harry -- which is a difference of stature, not of genre: Harry's
a comedy, but a weightier film than Thief. Both are, of course,
perfect.
9937
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 9:06pm
Subject: Re: Truffaut
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Define "heft". Give examples.
> > >
>
> The flashback explaining Charlie's past in "Tirez Sur
> le Pianist."
>
> Catherine's bottle of Vitriol in "Jules et Jim"
>
> Belmondo and Deneuve disposing the prying Michel
> Bouquet in "La Sirene du Mississipi"
>
> Adele's climactic walk in which she fails (or
> refuses?) to recognize her beloved in "L'Histoire
> D'Adele H."
>
> All these moments, and more, are ivotal. The movies
> either shift or resolve on them, and I can't find
> anything comparable in "Baisers Voles."
>
>
> Oh, that's "heft" ?...
And that's what makes a film "major"? A pivotal moment?
"How strange the change from major to minor."
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9938
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 9:13pm
Subject: Re: Foreign film distribution in the US
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > Maybe, but one or two weeks in one small theater in New York
is
> > insignificant in terms of distribution, exposure, audience, box
> > office...
>
> Was it much different in the 60s and 70s, though? I didn't really
start
> watching until the mid-70s, but my impression is that major foreign
> films would often leave town pretty quickly. - Dan
You're right. it has always been so, except for the occasional
foreign sleeper -- of which there were more then than now, it seems
to me.
9939
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 9:35pm
Subject: Re: Truffaut
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> ."
> >
>
> I did include Baisers voles in my list of materpieces at the start
of
> his career, and compared them to the run Hitchcock had starting
with
> Strangers on a Train, until Torn Curtain broke the string. In this
> context Baisers voles would be the To Catch a Thief, not the
Trouble
> with Harry -- which is a difference of stature, not of genre:
Harry's
> a comedy, but a weightier film than Thief. Both are, of course,
> perfect.
To Catch a Thief and Trouble with Harry are two of my least
favorite Hitchcocks. Maybe they're perfect but it's not a perfection
that turns me on.
So David invokes "heft" and Bill invokes "weight" -- presumably
meaning about the same thing. I still don't find the concept really
convincing. It's like
invoking "meaning", "seriousness", "importance"...Why not social
significance while you're at it?
To David: perhaps there is no "pivotal" moment in Baisers voles
because it's an episodic comedy (all the Truffaut films you quoted
are dramas, although sometimes with comedy elements,
especially "Pianiste")-- I don't see why this should make it "minor".
(actually I could argue that the scene with Seyrig in Antoine's room
is pivotal; or even better maybe the final scene with Christine's
admirer and her and Antoine's lowkey reaction to his astonishing
speech). JPC
9940
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 10:10pm
Subject: Re: Re: Truffaut
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
> > Oh, that's "heft" ?...
> And that's what makes a film "major"? A
> pivotal moment?
> "How strange the change from major to
> minor."
>
Cole Porter knew everything.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9941
From: Aaron Graham
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 10:12pm
Subject: Bogdanovich's "Mask"
Culled this from davisdvd.com:
Mask: Special Edition will include a never-before-available music
soundtrack featuring Bruce Springsteen. Director Peter Bogdanovich
recently secured the rights to the Springsteen songs that he had
originally intended to use back in 1985.
It's to be released on September 7th.
=Aaron
9942
From:
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 6:38pm
Subject: Re: Bogdanovich's "Mask"
Wonderful news. As I understand it, the DVD will also include the scenes
which Universal removed upon the film's initial release in 1985.
"Mask" is a beautiful film, very much in the tragic mode of "Picture Show"
and "Daisy Miller," and full of the trademark Bogdanovich cross-cutting which I
talk so much about. His sense of space is all over it. Incidentally,
September should be a pretty cool month for Bogdanovich fans; in addition to the
director's cut of "Mask," there's also his new tele-film, "Hustle," on ESPN and
his new book about actors, "Who the Hell's In It."
Peter
9943
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri May 14, 2004 10:55pm
Subject: Re: Re: Truffaut
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> To David: perhaps there is no "pivotal" moment in
> Baisers voles
> because it's an episodic comedy (all the Truffaut
> films you quoted
> are dramas, although sometimes with comedy elements,
>
> especially "Pianiste")-- I don't see why this should
> make it "minor".
> (actually I could argue that the scene with Seyrig
> in Antoine's room
> is pivotal; or even better maybe the final scene
> with Christine's
> admirer and her and Antoine's lowkey reaction to his
> astonishing
> speech). JPC
>
Well here's where it all gets very personal and
specific. I can't "prove" that "Baisers Voles" is
minor Truffaut -- it's just my opinion given the terms
I've stated through example.
I find his most interesting films are those where
genuine anguish is interspersed with dark comedy. A
typical example of this are the killers in "Tirez Sur
le Pianist." But I find that Adele H. is at her most
compelling when she makes herself look the most ridiculous.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9944
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat May 15, 2004 1:00am
Subject: Re: Truffaut
or even better maybe the final scene with Christine's
> admirer and her and Antoine's lowkey reaction to his astonishing
> speech). JPC
JP - I hate the scene with Seyrig in Antoine's room. And I hate the
line "Are women magic?" from which I date the signs of softening of
the brain in Truffaut. So I take back the part about "flawless."
9945
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sat May 15, 2004 1:25am
Subject: Re: Truffaut (& Porter)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> > > Oh, that's "heft" ?...
> > And that's what makes a film "major"? A
> > pivotal moment?
> > "How strange the change from major to
> > minor."
> >
>
>
> Cole Porter knew everything.
>
> David, don't you feel a sudden urge to sing the kind of ditty
that invokes the Spring? (I won't curse while you crucify the verse).
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9946
From: Aaron Graham
Date: Sat May 15, 2004 1:32am
Subject: Re: Bogdanovich's "Mask"
> "Mask" is a beautiful film, very much in the tragic mode
of "Picture Show"
> and "Daisy Miller,"
Certainly agree here. It's definitely Bogdanovich's most productive
work from the 1980s (not counting "They All Laughed" which was filmed
in 1980 but feels very much an artifact of New York in the late
1970s).
There's such a remarkable sense of emotion in the picture -
Bogdanovich going back to his sanctuary (cinema; although I'm sure
some would say he was going back to fill up his bank account) after a
tumultuous time in his personal life and creating a work that
resonates on many levels, including his own personal allegory.
It's a great work which needs to be reassessed with its proper
soundtrack - a version that's never been shown, outside of a few test
screenings, etc.
9947
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sat May 15, 2004 1:35am
Subject: Re: Truffaut
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> or even better maybe the final scene with Christine's
> > admirer and her and Antoine's lowkey reaction to his astonishing
> > speech). JPC
>
> JP - I hate the scene with Seyrig in Antoine's room. And I hate the
> line "Are women magic?" from which I date the signs of softening of
> the brain in Truffaut. So I take back the part about "flawless."
I'm interested in why you hate it. The thing about women being
magic was an old cliche at the time, you know. Lots of young people
had to believe it or pretend to because it was real hard to get laid
in those days. And even if you did, well, it was a trendy kind of
thinking anyway-- probably a fallout from Surrealism and amour fou
(which was still sort of trendy although Truffaut had a good time
making fun of Kyrou's silly emoting -- cf Cahiers (your revue de
chevet -- # 79, January 1958) My point is that Truffaut had been
talking about women being "magic" long before he made movies (I can
testify to that). I think he continued to sort of believe it to the
very end -- at least women's legs were magic, see the closing shots
of his last movie. JPC
9948
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sat May 15, 2004 1:37am
Subject: Re: Truffaut
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> or even better maybe the final scene with Christine's
> > admirer and her and Antoine's lowkey reaction to his astonishing
> > speech). JPC
>
> JP - I hate the scene with Seyrig in Antoine's room. And I hate the
> line "Are women magic?" from which I date the signs of softening of
> the brain in Truffaut. So I take back the part about "flawless."
How do you like the scene with Seyrig where he calls
her "Monsieur" and runs out in shame -- a situation Truffaut lifted
from Anatole France's "Le Livre de mon ami" ?
9949
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Sat May 15, 2004 2:54am
Subject: Re: Re: Truffaut
> And I hate the
> line "Are women magic?" from which I date the signs of softening of
> the brain in Truffaut.
I know what you mean, but isn't that the oft-repeated question from LA
NUIT AMERICAINE? Is it in BAISERS VOLES also? - Dan
9950
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat May 15, 2004 3:54am
Subject: Re: Re: Truffaut (& Porter)
At words poetic, I'm so pathetic
That I always have found it best,
Instead of getting 'em off my chest,
To let 'em rest unexpressed.
I hate parading
My serenading
As I'll probably miss a bar,
But if this ditty
Is not so pretty,
At least it'll tell you
How great you are.
You're the top!
You're the Colliseum.
You're the top!
You're the Louvre Museum.
You're a melody from a symphony by Strauss.
You're a Bendel bonnet,
A Shakespeare sonnet,
You're Mickey Mouse.
You're the Nile,
You're the Tower of Pisa,
You're the smile
On the Mona Lisa.
I'm a worthless check, a total wreck, a flop,
But if, Baby, I'm the bottom
You're the top!
Your words poetic are not pathetic
On the other hand, boy, you shine
And I can feel after every line
A thrill divine
Down my spine.
Now gifted humans like Vincent Youmans
Might think that your song is bad,
But for a person who's just rehearsin'
Well, I gotta say this my lad:
You're the top!
You're Mahatma Gandhi.
You're the top!
You're Napoleon brandy.
You're the purple light of a summer night in Spain,
You're the National Gall'ry,
You're Garbo's sal'ry
You're cellophane.
You're sublime,
You're a turkey dinner,
You're the time
Of the Derby winner.
I'm a toy balloon that's fated soon to pop,
But if, Baby, I'm the bottom
You're the top!
You're the top!
You're a Ritz hot toddy.
You're the top!
You're a Brewster body.
You're the boats the glide on the sleepy Zuider Zee,
You're a Nathan panning,
You're Bishop Manning,
You're broccoli.
You're a prize,
You're a night at Coney,
You're the eyes
Of Irene Bordoni.
I'm a broken doll, a fol-de-rol, a blop,
But if, Baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!
You're the top!
You're an Arrow collar.
You're the top!
You're a Coolidge dollar.
You're the nimble tread of the feet of Fred Astaire,
You're an O'Neill drama,
You're Whistler's mama,
You're Camembert.
You're a rose,
You're Inferno's Dante,
You're the nose
On the great Durante.
I'm just in the way, as the French would say
"De trop,"
But if, Baby, I'm the bottom
You're the top!
You're the top!
You're a Waldorf salad.
You're the top!
You're a Berlin ballad.
You're a baby grand of a lady and a gent,
You're an old Dutch master
You're Mrs. Astor,
You're Pepsodent.
You're romance,
You're the steppes of Russia,
You're the pants on a Roxy usher.
I'm a lazy lout that's just about to stop,
But if, Baby, I'm the bottom
You're the top!
You're the top!
You're a dance in Bali.
You're the top!
You're a hot tamale.
You're an angel, you, simply too, too, too diveen,
You're a Botticelli,
You're Keats,
You're Shelley,
You're Ovaltine.
You're a boon,
You're the dam at Boulder,
You're the moon over Mae West's shoulder.
I'm the nominee of the G. O. P.
Or GOP,
But if, Baby, I'm the bottom
You're the top!
You're the top!
You're the Tower of Babel.
You're the top!
You're the Whitney Stable,
By the River Rhine,
You're a sturdy stein of beer,
You're a dress from Saks's,
You're next year's taxes,
You're stratosphere.
You're my thoist,
You're a drumstick lipstick,
You're do foist,
In da Irish Svipstick.
I'm a frightened frog
That can find no log
To hop,
But if, Baby, I'm the bottom
You're the top!
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- jpcoursodon wrote:
> >
> > > > Oh, that's "heft" ?...
> > > And that's what makes a film "major"? A
> > > pivotal moment?
> > > "How strange the change from major to
> > > minor."
> > >
> >
> >
> > Cole Porter knew everything.
> >
> > David, don't you feel a sudden urge to sing the
> kind of ditty
> that invokes the Spring? (I won't curse while you
> crucify the verse).
> >
> >
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9951
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat May 15, 2004 4:26am
Subject: Re: Truffaut
isn't that the oft-repeated question from LA
> NUIT AMERICAINE? Is it in BAISERS VOLES also? - Dan
I believe it's asked in both. Now that you remind me, I'm starting to
get down on La nuit americaine, too!
9952
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat May 15, 2004 4:55am
Subject: Re: Truffaut
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> isn't that the oft-repeated question from LA
> > NUIT AMERICAINE? Is it in BAISERS VOLES also? - Dan
>
> I believe it's asked in both. Now that you remind me, I'm starting
to
> get down on La nuit americaine, too!
Wait a minute, it's coming back to me. Maybe the line I hated in
Baisers voles was "Les gens sont formidables," which ENDS the Seyrig
visit. But I think the women/magic question is asked there too.
You know, you can say it's a line here, a line there, but there are
lines so meretricious that they make you question someone's
character, not to mention intelligence.
We're talking about my favorite director at the time he made that
film, and even after, you know. Wild Child is an amazing film, and so
is Mississippi Mermaid. And I still liked Bed and Board, a comedy of
remarriage before Cavell invented the term, in which I saw much
meaning (mostly political, given the period), despite or maybe
because of the heterogenous feel of the film - very different from
BV, which is all of a piece, as if written in a single stroke. And I
love that freeze frame!
But beginning with BV, because of "Les gens sont formidables!" and
(if I'm not misremembering) "Est-ce que les femmes sont magiques?",
it was up and down, almost as if Wild Child and Mermaid (a very
eccentric, uncompromised film - like someone's late period) were the
end of a process, and after that he was chasing his own tail. There
were still great films, but there were also incomprehensible lapses,
like those dumb lines, or casting Leaud in a period role in Deux
anglaises. Love on the Run was an absolute catastrophe, and Green
Room and Woman Next Door were courageous experiments that didn't
gell, but could have led to more work on the level of Adele H and
Wild Child if he had lived. I can't tell you how much I wish he had.
Losing him and Demy so early was a huge blow to cinema.
9953
From:
Date: Sat May 15, 2004 0:56am
Subject: Re: Re: Bogdanovich's "Mask"
Aaron Graham wrote:
>Bogdanovich going back to his sanctuary (cinema; although I'm sure
>some would say he was going back to fill up his bank account) after a
>tumultuous time in his personal life and creating a work that
>resonates on many levels, including his own personal allegory.
In writing my piece on him (for which I re-watched every Bogdanovich
picture), I must say that "Mask" was the real revelation. I knew "They All Laughed"
was great going in, I knew "Daisy Miller" was great going in, etc., so I was
surprised to watch "Mask" and come away thinking that it's a film that deserves
to be mentioned in their company.
It's a central film for Bogdanovich because it sets the pattern for the rest
of his films to this date, films he hasn't originated (as he did "They All
Laughed") but projects of others which he has MADE his own. Initially, he took
"Mask" because he needed the money. But a memory he had of Dorothy Stratten -
that she was fascinated by the story of John Merrick - encouraged him to i
nvest himself in the film. I think it's obvious that he did. From tiny, almost
throwaway touches like the inclusion of several Robert Graves references (Laura
Dern talking about the shape an apple makes if you cut it crosswise is right
out of Graves) to his usual beautifully articulated mise-en-scene, it's his
film through and through.
I can't wait to see the director's cut. Now if the (amazing) director's cut
of "Texasville" will come to DVD, we'll be all set.
Peter
9954
From:
Date: Sat May 15, 2004 1:09am
Subject: Re: Re: Truffaut
Jean-Pierre Coursodon wrote:
>The final scene is a neat trick. Since
>you have no clue that the scene takes place on a theatre stage and is
>the end of a play you ask yourself "How could FT be so careless as to
>use that phony backdrop?"
I haven't seen the film in years, but my memory is that it's only towards the
middle of the scene that Truffaut switches to the phony backdrop. Throughout
at least the first half of the scene, I remember seeing people moving about
outside the window (and other signs of life). There's a cut at some point - he
probably sneaks it in during one of the shot/counter-shots of Deneuve and
Depardieu - and suddenly the phony backdrop is behind them. I remember thinking
how bold this was, some sort of magic realism effect.
>It's a fitting conclusion to a film about the
>theater in which scenes off stage often look "staged' in a theatrical
>fashion.
I fully agree!
Peter
9955
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Sat May 15, 2004 11:05am
Subject: Boris Barnet on DVD
Image Entertainment is releasing a two-film set, with OKRAINIA (listed
as OUTSKIRTS) and THE GIRL WITH THE HATBOX.
The DVDPlanet.com website lists the latter as THE GIRL WITH THE
HOTBOX, which I'm just not even gonna go there.
-Jaime
9956
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Sat May 15, 2004 1:16pm
Subject: Re: Boris Barnet on DVD
> Image Entertainment is releasing a two-film set, with OKRAINIA (listed
> as OUTSKIRTS) and THE GIRL WITH THE HATBOX.
What I'm wondering is whether the DVD of OKRAINA will be framed better
than the horrible print that the Russian labs made for the traveling
Barnet retro, which cuts off both the top and the left side of the
image. - Dan
9957
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sat May 15, 2004 2:29pm
Subject: Re: Truffaut (& Porter)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> ______
I sure asked for it! Skip the darn thing and sing the
refrain! JPC
____________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9958
From: Doug Cummings
Date: Sat May 15, 2004 3:01pm
Subject: Re: Boris Barnet on DVD
>What I'm wondering is whether the DVD of OKRAINA will be framed better
>than the horrible print that the Russian labs made for the traveling
>Barnet retro, which cuts off both the top and the left side of the
>image. - Dan
It has been restored by David Shepard, so we can hope that it will be
properly framed. (One can only guess with Image, however.)
Doug
9959
From: Eric Henderson
Date: Sun May 16, 2004 1:04am
Subject: Re: Rosenbaum's Cannon
--- Doug Cummings wrote:
> >1000 favorite films. Way to throw down the gauntlet!
>
> Well it's only roughly ten films a year 1895-2003...
That's still pretty selective. Which makes for some truly intriguing
choices. (My favorite seemingly outta left field pick: Mel Brooks
HISTORY OF THE WORLD PART ONE. That's always been my secret favorite
of Brooks'.)
-- Eric
9960
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Sun May 16, 2004 5:20am
Subject: any good Friedkin studies?
There looks to be two (perhaps three) books on William Friedkin on
Amazon.com. One looks to be a biography, which I'm not interested,
the other is the Thomas Clagett "the films of" type book. Is it any
good? Any good articles on this fascinating filmmaker?
-Jaime
p.s. Nothing to add re: Rosenbaum's book. It's a must-read, of course.
9961
From: hotlove666
Date: Sun May 16, 2004 6:03am
Subject: Re: any good Friedkin studies?
Any good articles on this fascinating filmmaker?
I skimmed almost everything when I was writing my piece on Cruising
for Torino, and Claggett's book the best of a shabby lot - plenty of
useful information, shaky analysis, untrustworthy evaluations.
Someone named Kermode (no relation) did a BFI Classics monograph on
Exorcist which I haven't read.
There's a brilliant article on Cruising: Robin Wood's "The Incoherent
Text" in Hollywood from Vietnam to Reagan. Adrian also did a fine
short article on that film. And if you go to Dan's website you'll
find a groundreaking piece on Friedkin's style in the form of a
review of Hunted. Giulia d'Agnolo Vallan's Torino "catalogue" is
great, but it's in Italian -lots of interviews, excerpts from
unproduced scripts, essays by WF, etc. I 'd bet that one of the LA
critics wrote something good about Live and Die - it was very popular
out here.
9962
From: hotlove666
Date: Sun May 16, 2004 6:07am
Subject: Re: Rosenbaum's Cannon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Henderson" wrote:
> --- Doug Cummings wrote:
> > >1000 favorite films. Way to throw down the gauntlet!
> >
> > Well it's only roughly ten films a year 1895-2003...
>
> That's still pretty selective. Which makes for some truly
intriguing
> choices. (My favorite seemingly outta left field pick: Mel Brooks
> HISTORY OF THE WORLD PART ONE. That's always been my secret
favorite
> of Brooks'.)
>
> -- Eric
I crack up just thinking about the Jews in Space epilogue. Albert
Whitlock and Harold Michelson helped a lot with that film. It was
shot on the Zoetrope lot.
I have always thought Young Frankenstein was as close as Brooks ever
got to perfection, with a nice assist from Gene Wilder in that case.
Hackman as the blind man was hilarious, and (for me at the time)
unrecognizable.
9963
From:
Date: Sun May 16, 2004 2:46am
Subject: Re: any good Friedkin studies?
The two best articles I know of are by members of this group: Dan's piece on
"The Hunted" and Bill's on "Cruising." By coincidence or not, I think those
are two of his best films.
Has his filmed interview with Fritz Lang finally been screened publicly?
Peter
9964
From: Henrik Sylow
Date: Sun May 16, 2004 11:02am
Subject: Free Screening of Zatoichi
Those lucky enough to be near or even in Los Angeles, can
watch "Zatoichi" FREE, May the 26th at 7:30pm at the Arclight
theatre in Los Angeles.
Arclight Hollywood
6360 Sunset Blvd
4 hour free parking with validation.
Tickets are first come first serve.
RSVP via email to: info@a... or visit www.asianfilm.org
Enjoy
Henrik
9965
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun May 16, 2004 0:55pm
Subject: Re: any good Friedkin studies?
Here's my two cents:
http://www.ehrensteinland.com/htmls/library/cruising.html
--- ptonguette@a... wrote:
> The two best articles I know of are by members of
> this group: Dan's piece on
> "The Hunted" and Bill's on "Cruising." By
> coincidence or not, I think those
> are two of his best films.
>
> Has his filmed interview with Fritz Lang finally
> been screened publicly?
>
> Peter
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9966
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Mon May 17, 2004 3:42am
Subject: the latest Film Comment
I was sorry to see Dan Sallitt's name missing from the contributors of
the Maurice Pialat coverage (one essay per feature film, plus an
interview and a career overview).
But I have not come across a more worthwhile piece of discussion
regarding THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST than Geoffrey O'Brien's review.
-Jaime
9967
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon May 17, 2004 4:05am
Subject: Re: the latest Film Comment
How so?
And what else is in the issue?
--- "Jaime N. Christley"
wrote:
> I was sorry to see Dan Sallitt's name missing from
> the contributors of
> the Maurice Pialat coverage (one essay per feature
> film, plus an
> interview and a career overview).
>
> But I have not come across a more worthwhile piece
> of discussion
> regarding THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST than Geoffrey
> O'Brien's review.
>
> -Jaime
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9968
From: hotlove666
Date: Mon May 17, 2004 5:09am
Subject: Re: the latest Film Comment
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> How so?
>
> And what else is in the issue?
A Kent Jones interview w. Richard Schickel about The Big Red One that
moved Christa and Samantha to tears - finally seeing it in print made
them realize that the miracle has happened and the nightmare Gene
Corman visited on their family is finally over.
9969
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Mon May 17, 2004 0:06pm
Subject: Re: the latest Film Comment
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein wrote:
> How so?
It fits the movie into its own cultural history (he begins by
discussing medieval passion plays and how they evolved over time),
what the film may represent in the present (its "role" not only as a
film experience but as a cultural object), and builds a picture of the
film that can accomodate all the conflicting views that have sprung up
around it.
O'Brien has, as usual, complicated my view of a film more than any
other writer or set of writers. It's the article I've been waiting
for, more or less (less because the film was never a big priority for me).
> And what else is in the issue?
BIG RED ONE coverage, an upcoming Mike Hodges film, the "new"
big-business-bashing trend in documentary filmmaking, a long Peter
Watkins article which I haven't read.
-Jaime
9970
From: Damien Bona
Date: Mon May 17, 2004 4:17pm
Subject: Geoffrey O'Brien (was the latest Film Comment)
For those of you who were around the Neww York area in the 60s,
Geoffrey O'Brien's father is Joe O'Brien, who was one of the
legendary WMCA Good Guys.
In the 70s, Joe had the "Wolfman Jack role" in a porno take-off of
American Graffiti (but was not involved in any of the "action"
scenes).
9971
From: hotlove666
Date: Mon May 17, 2004 5:58pm
Subject: Fahrenheit 9/11 at Cannes
From THE DRUDGE REPORT:
20 mins standing ovation for FAHRENHEIT 9-11, yelling,
screaming, cheering... 'This is the longest standing ovation in
the history of the festival! Unbelievable!' declared Cannes
stalwart Thierry Fremaux. Moore, raising fist, unable to speak
over crowd, vows to fight... Controversial scene in film shows
wounded American GI in Iraq talking about how Democrats
must win election... Movie shows video of U.S. soldiers laughing
as they place hoods over Iraqi detainees, with one of them
grabbing a prisoner's genitals through a blanket...
Wow...
9972
From:
Date: Mon May 17, 2004 7:39pm
Subject: Re: Sadism
In a message dated 5/13/04 9:58:59 AM, sallitt@p... writes:
- Hitchcock focuses on process, detail. Von Trier, who cannot afford to(his
case isn't realistic), shows only the bits of the trial that condemn his
heroine, eliding all the bits that would exculpate her.
Yes but isn't there thus in Dancer in the Dark an extreme devaluation of the
letter of the law and its patriarchal underpinnings? There's an emotional
logic to Bjork's actions that has no truck with The Law. That's why Deneuve
disappears during the law scenes and reappears in the prison immediately afterwards.
There's a whole womanly continuum that The Law tries to disrupt but keeps
reasserting itself. Reminds me of Tania Modleski's excellent piece on Letter From
an Unknown Woman called "Time and Desire in the Woman's Film." Her thesis is
that despite the supposed anguish Lisa has felt throughout the film, she has
known a motherly happiness utterly foreign to anything the self-absorbed Stefan
could even conceive.
But to bring in the Hitchcock connection, it's most instructive to contrast
Dancer with Rebecca where for much of the screen time, we have this fascinating
female oedipal dilemma played out which casts an almost parodic shadow over
the legal proceedings which take over the last twenty-five or so minutes of the
film. The film becomes depressingly (but necessarily?) literal, even
scientific in these final scenes, wallowing in a rather crusty "objectivity." Rebecca
can't even be caught by the camera (although it tries, mightily, in that beach
house scene) much less legal discourse.
Kevin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9973
From: Eric Henderson
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 3:07am
Subject: Re: any good Friedkin studies?
--- ptonguette@a... wrote:
> Dan's piece on
> "The Hunted" and Bill's on "Cruising." By coincidence or not, I think those
> are two of his best films.
Where can I find that piece on CRUISING. Oddly enough, I just watched it on
Starz Mystery the other night and jotted down a few thoughts here:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/ephender/26586.html
Regarding its homophobia, I think it's present, but I think Friedkin twists it
around in a way that becomes a critique of masculine role-playing in general.
Of course, I don't doubt that there's plenty to be said for the whole different-
time-different-atmosphere thing, and perhaps the right I have now as a gay
man to attempt to judge the film on alternative political-aesthetic terms has
been paid for with the blood of previous generations of gay martyrs... I just
don't know, but I think the film itself is clearly up to something worth
discussing.
-- Eric
9974
From: Adrian Martin
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 3:45am
Subject: Friedkin reading
I'm happy to announce that Bill's outstanding piece on CRUISING is in issue
3 of ROUGE (www.rouge.com.au), on-line soon!
Another terrific piece, short but jam-packed intellectually, is Andrew
Britton's analysis in MOVIE of THE EXORCIST, published in the 70s. He finds
it ideologically suspicious on most points, but argues the case with vigour!
Kermode's BFI Modern Classic on that film is informative about the
production and the 'director's cut', but is thin interpretation-wise.
Kermode is of that rather dour 'don't be a wanker' school of British
criticism (the king of which is Kim Newman), which alas generates few new
ideas!!
When the late and lamented master-muso Jack Nitzsche appeared in Australia
at a conference on film sound shortly before his death, he spoke with some
bemusement of Friedkin's radical technique of 'stacking': piling up to six
songs and music tracks on top of each other in the mix! - in THE EXORCIST
and CRUISING, for example. Nitzsche growled: 'It was crazy, but it seemed to
work'!! It something '60s-era filmmakers love to do: Jim McBride does it in
BREATHLESS, Bertolucci in THE DREAMERS, Godard in PRENOM CARMEN, Stone in
NATURAL BORN KILLERS ...
stacked Adrian
9975
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 4:09am
Subject: Re: Re: any good Friedkin studies?
I remain unconvinced that it's up to anything very
much save posturing. Curious that there's so much
interest in the film at this particular moment as I'm
in the midst of writing my memoirs, major portions of
which involve having sex in the West Village. I knew
that scene quite well, though not being a leather
adept . . .in particular. Objections to the film made
at the time had less to do with simple "mistakes" of
observational style than the whole surround of
"poaching" on territory by outsiders with money and
the power to disseminate images.
Back then no one gay was making films about this world
outside of a few porno mavens like Jack Deveau (whose
"Drive" is ver much worthy of serious study) and Fred
Halsted (whose "L.A. Plays Itself" WAS taken
seriously, though not really studied.) Friedkin's
notion of gay "danger" is about as sophisticated as
Mary Robert Rinehart. If you want a film the delves
into the "dark side" and knows what the fuck it's
talking about, try Chereau's "L'Homme Blesse."
As fate would have it Chereau is about to direct Al
Pacino in "The Monster of Longwood."
No, it's not a horror thriller.
--- Eric Henderson wrote:
> --- ptonguette@a... wrote:
> > Dan's piece on
> > "The Hunted" and Bill's on "Cruising." By
> coincidence or not, I think those
> > are two of his best films.
>
> Where can I find that piece on CRUISING. Oddly
> enough, I just watched it on
> Starz Mystery the other night and jotted down a few
> thoughts here:
>
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/ephender/26586.html
>
> Regarding its homophobia, I think it's present, but
> I think Friedkin twists it
> around in a way that becomes a critique of masculine
> role-playing in general.
> Of course, I don't doubt that there's plenty to be
> said for the whole different-
> time-different-atmosphere thing, and perhaps the
> right I have now as a gay
> man to attempt to judge the film on alternative
> political-aesthetic terms has
> been paid for with the blood of previous generations
> of gay martyrs... I just
> don't know, but I think the film itself is clearly
> up to something worth
> discussing.
>
> -- Eric
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9976
From:
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 1:05am
Subject: "Searching for Michael Cimino"
I just ran across a mention of a 2003 release called "Searching for Michael
Cimino," directed by John Bailey. I assume this is a documentary of some kind,
but typing in the title at Google produces very few results. Has anybody
seen or heard of this? What is it?
And we're talking about the lack of a really great, book-length critical
study of Friedkin - where is the really great, book-length critical study of
Cimino?!
Peter
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9977
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 9:49am
Subject: Re: "Searching for Michael Cimino"
- where is the really great, book-length critical study of
> Cimino?!
>
> Peter
In FX Feeney's head, awaiting liberation by some publisher -- and he
proposes it every time he meets one. I did a monograph-length account
of the filming of The Sicilian, which was published in CdC in 2
parts -- by the time the 2nd appeared, they had decided they didn't
like The Sicilian, but I do. Those 100 or so pages plus my very long
post-Gate interview w. Michael, which started him talking again,
would make a good book to set on the shelf next to FX's non-existent
critical study, but right now trying to publish anything on that
director could get you thrown into a rubber room next door to the guy
who wanted to do a coffee table book on Walking Down Broadway, timed
to coincide with the film's release.
9978
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 2:43pm
Subject: Tony Randall Dies
Tony">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5004611/">Tony
Randall
Frank Tashlin called him "a comedy machine."
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9979
From: Damien Bona
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 4:40pm
Subject: Re: Tony Randall Dies
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> Frank Tashlin called him "a comedy machine."
>
He was also on Nixon's Enemies List.
__________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9980
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 4:50pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tony Randall Dies
I knew there was more than one reason why I liked him.
--- Damien Bona wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Frank Tashlin called him "a comedy machine."
> >
>
> He was also on Nixon's Enemies List.
>
>
> __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9981
From:
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 1:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: "Searching for Michael Cimino"
I think I get the picture. I assume this is also the reason why his novel
(which, I understand, is very much like a Cimino film, full of his usual themes
and preoccupations) still hasn't appeared in its native language three years
after its publication in France. What a pity, as Cimino is, for my money, one
of the few genuine masters of his generation. I hope "The Deer Hunter" isn't
doomed to be his "To Kill A Mockingbird": a film that's entered the popular
imagination (as Cimino himself noted, Bravo was playing it seemingly on a weekly
basis following 9/11) while its creator's other work remains relatively
forgotten (or, in Cimino's case, remembered for entirely the wrong reasons.)
Do you know if the director's cut of "The Sicilian" is available on DVD
anywhere in the world? A DVD of his amazing "Year of the Dragon" is coming out in
the UK later this month. And, of course, you can also find a terrific "Deer
Hunter" DVD in the UK, featuring a remarkable commentary track between Cimino
and F.X. Feeney.
So no one knows what this phantom John Bailey docu is?
Peter
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9982
From: Raymond P.
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 5:57pm
Subject: Most incompetent professional film review ever?
I cannot believe this utterly incompetent piece of writing came from Kirk
Honeycutt. Would anyone like to try listing the things which are wrong
with this article's first paragraph?
Tropical Mallady
By Kirk Honeycutt
Thai director Apichatpong Weerasethaku makes experimental films
outside that country's studio system. Rigorously uncommercial and for
most viewers impenetrable, his second feature, "Tropical Malady," will
prove a strain for even his loyal fans. Certainly for most audiences the
viewing experience will prove not only tedious but bewildering. If the
walkouts and boos mingled with applause at its press screening here
mean anything, the film may stump the art-film crowd as well.
9983
From: Robert Keser
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 6:05pm
Subject: My Son John: ending and essence
Does anyone have information about the intended ending of My Son
John? One source says that the Robert Walker character first tapes
his final confession and then "gaspingly dies upon the steps of
the Lincoln Memorial", whereas the scene in the final release has
him expire in an automobile. Did McCarey conceive of the graduation
speech as a passive "listening" experience on the tape
recorder for the assembled new graduates? Or did Walker's death
prevent the actor from delivering it for the camera (while McCarey
substitutes a shaft of light where the speaker should be)?
I'm showing this film tomorrow in my class on "Commie
Noir", but it strikes me as much less anti-communist than anti-
intellectual and pro-religion. It's also the second role in a
row (after Strangers On a Train) where the apparently straight
actor Robert Walker seemed to be embodying a gay-coded character
(reflecting a current of homophobic panic that certainly drove
some of the HUAC hysteria).
While I value Make Way For Tomorrow and Love Affair as much as
anyone, and I appreciate the intensity of My Son John's
film's two-shot confrontations, I'm at a loss of how to
account for the grotesque tonal clashes. Helen Hayes especially
seems to veer between hinged and unhinged (Nathan Glick in
Commentary says "It is almost as if Miss Hayes sensed the
driving irrationality behind the film and decided to give it
its due"), although McCarey drops signposts with scenes of the
doctor prescribing pills and some veiled talk about menopausal
changes.
Tag's article on Going My Way (in Senses of Cinema) sees the film
as "a black comedy on how the effect of hunting the witches is to
*demonize* religion, patriotism, and all human relationships, even
motherhood". I don't see this at all as the intent of a film
that reaffirms the rightness of both parents' views, martyrs their
son, and provides a surrogate son in the FBI agent. Seeing that Dan
and Jaime (and Jonathan Rosenbaum) all list this film among their
favorites, I wonder whether anyone has opinions on the black comedy
interpretation?
--Robert Keser
9984
From:
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 2:24pm
Subject: Re: My Son John: ending and essence
A quick reply for now, but my views about "My Son John" (which I, too, love
in many ways) roughly correspond with Dave Kehr's in his capsule review:
http://onfilm.chicagoreader.com/movies/capsules/6534_MY_SON_JOHN
However, I'm not sure that McCarey >doesn't< make an intellectual argument in
that third act, which is why I find that part of the film so troublesome.
But as long as the film is about a son who has gone off to college and returns
home thinking himself smarter than his parents, I find it unbearably moving and
powerful - in those sections, a genuine equal of "Make Way For Tomorrow."
More later!
Peter
9985
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 7:18pm
Subject: Re: "Searching for Michael Cimino"
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
> I think I get the picture. I assume this is also the reason why
his novel
> (which, I understand, is very much like a Cimino film, full of his
usual themes
> and preoccupations) still hasn't appeared in its native language
three years
> after its publication in France.
I have probably quoted this exchange before, but I like it because it
shows that, along with other more publicized developments, the guy
has developed a sense of humor recently. He called me to see if I had
a VHS of the uncut Sicilian -- he had been asked to show it at a
festival in Poland and speak afterwards. (I do have a cassette, and I
don't know if there is a DVD.) He told me he had finished his book
and that it would be out in France shortly. I asked why there and he
said, "When I finished it I sat down on the sofa and I said to
myself, 'For once in my life I'm not going to be stupid. Who likes
me? The French.'" So he took it to Gallimard and they bought world
rights. I don't know if they want to sub-contract it for here, but
he's opposed to it because "yellow journalism" has replaced real
journalism here and he knows it wouldn't get a fair hearing.
Yann Lardeau of CdC wanted to do an Auteur series on Michael - a
critical study - but it never happened for some reason.
And again I'm sure this is repetition, but I'm one of the few people
who saw the real ending of The Sicilian, which will never be used.
When I went over to the editing room there was a freeze frame of it
on Francoise Bonnot's editing machine: Giuliano rearing up on
horseback against a huge full moon, with the last couple of lines of
The Great Gatsby printed over it. Begelman was too cheap to pay the
Fitzgerald estate for use rights, but it would have made a nice
ending (right after the two old men walking away from the grave), and
might have helped people who wanted a neo-realist film understand the
one Michael made.
I like that film a lot - it's one of Vidal's best jobs as a
screenwriter (uncredited). Fox never had any intention of giving it a
real release - they were using it as the rock to break Begelman's
output deal with the studio because it was written (by their
predecessors) in a way that made it impossible for Fox to see any
money - even on a relatively successful film like Mannequin. So they
tried to get Begelman to break his contract by not delivering a two
hour film, knowing that the director was tough and would fight like
crazy, and Begelman delivered a two-hour cut anyway. It was all a
chess game. The marketing department was taking phone calls about
other matters throughout the one screening we had of this film we
were supposed to "sell."
9986
From: Robert Keser
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 7:22pm
Subject: Re: My Son John: ending and essence
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
I'm not sure that McCarey >doesn't< make an intellectual argument in
> that third act, which is why I find that part of the film so
troublesome.
Yes, at the very least it's an anti-intellectual argument: "With the
substitution of 'faith in men' for 'faith in God' [communism is] the
most cunning, fiendish, brilliantly deceptive ideology yet devised
to incite God's creatures to turn against Him and against each
other". These are clearly two ideologies at war.
A related point in Glick's piece is that McCarey "cannot reject
Communism on the basis of its absolute power, because the principle
most frequently and variously propounded in My Son John is an
absolutism of its own: the absolute authority of church and parents,
their exclusive possession of an absolute truth, and the unmitigated
sinfulness of questioning that truth."
It's interesting that McCarey himself reminded critics in 1952 that
he wrote the words not only for the son's later recantation but also
for the son's earlier oppositional statements.
--Robert Keser
9987
From: Jonathan Rosenbaum
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 9:23pm
Subject: Re: My Son John: ending and essence
The proper research on this film--which would entail looking at the
original script and studio records at Paramount, the kind of work
carried out by Bill Krohn on Hitchcock--has yet to be done. But, as
nearly as I've been able to work out, McCarey originally intended
Robert Walker to recant "in person" and certainly not to die at the
end; the tape recording was made by Walker as a work tool while
preparing the part.
Although the film is certainly right-wing in most respects, it starts
to become complicated in a really interesting way once sees Walker
consciously playing up the gay subtext (or, rather, the alternate
meaning) of his character and thus coming very close to "subverting"
the film from within--which, as I recall, is close to the way James
Baldwin sees it in The Devil Finds Work (an interesting nonaueteurist
analysis, even if he gets some of his facts wrong). I believe Donald
Phelps has also written very perceptively about the film in his essay
on Warshow, pointing out quite persuasively that McCarey is perfectly
aware of the father as a silly character even if he backs his
politics. As for whether or not the film qualifies in part as black
comedy, I tend to think that much of the best McCarey tends to have
these ambiguities of tone, which is part of what I think is so great
about this film, for all (and to some degree even because of) its
serious derangement.
Jonathan
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Keser" wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
> I'm not sure that McCarey >doesn't< make an intellectual argument
in
> > that third act, which is why I find that part of the film so
> troublesome.
>
> Yes, at the very least it's an anti-intellectual argument: "With
the
> substitution of 'faith in men' for 'faith in God' [communism is]
the
> most cunning, fiendish, brilliantly deceptive ideology yet devised
> to incite God's creatures to turn against Him and against each
> other". These are clearly two ideologies at war.
9988
From: samfilms2003
Date: Tue May 18, 2004 11:54pm
Subject: Re: Most incompetent professional film review ever?
> Would anyone like to try listing the things which are wrong
> with this article's first paragraph?
I'll leave it to someone else, except to say it's his third feature (I think) and
am still waiting to see the second - "Blissfully Yours" because I loved the
first - "Mysterious Object at Noon"
Anyway, Experimental is hardly a deal-breaker in my book............ !
Does it ever occur to some Western critics that Asian filmmakers are
addressing anyone besides Western audiences ?
-Sam Wells
>
> Tropical Mallady
>
> By Kirk Honeycutt
>
> Thai director Apichatpong Weerasethaku makes experimental films
> outside that country's studio system. Rigorously uncommercial and for
> most viewers impenetrable, his second feature, "Tropical Malady," will
> prove a strain for even his loyal fans. Certainly for most audiences the
> viewing experience will prove not only tedious but bewildering. If the
> walkouts and boos mingled with applause at its press screening here
> mean anything, the film may stump the art-film crowd as well.
9989
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed May 19, 2004 0:06am
Subject: Joe Dante e-mail re: Tony Randall
BRAIN GREMLIN DEAD! [sob button icon]
Mr. Randall spent recent years as spokesman for the National Funeral
Directors Association, saying that he was well-qualified because he
had attended so many funerals. Politically outspoken against
Republicans, he joked that although he hoped his funeral would be
attended by far-flung dignitaries that his friends should bar
President Bush and Vice President Cheney from entrance "because
everyone knew how much I hated them."
In his autobiography, "Which Reminds Me," he suggested his own
epitaph: "I'm not going to take this lying down."
9990
From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Wed May 19, 2004 1:10am
Subject: Re: Most incompetent professional film review ever?
> > Would anyone like to try listing the things which are wrong
> > with this article's first paragraph?
>
> > Tropical Mallady
> >
> > By Kirk Honeycutt
> >
> > Thai director Apichatpong Weerasethaku makes experimental films
> > outside that country's studio system.
> > [...]
> I'll leave it to someone else, except to
> say it's his third feature (I think)
Also, it seems he (or someone) left the "l" off the end of Weerasethakul (and I thought Thai names were beyond me!...) and stuck it into "Malady." But that's probably not all you had in mind!
9991
From: Robert Keser
Date: Wed May 19, 2004 3:22am
Subject: Re: My Son John: ending and essence
So you think McCarey didn't intend to have John shot down on the
steps of the Lincoln Memorial? (Actually, that's close to the way
Tourneur's The Fearmakers ends). All the threads of the movie
seem to lead to some vanished (never filmed?) scene of catharsis
where Mother and Son achieve some kind of new accomodation. (The
Robert Walker tribute website has a fairly hefty biography of the
actor that says "several key scenes" remained to be filmed).
Great tip about Baldwin and Phelps! I wouldn't have thought to
look in either one. Also, in The Material Ghost, Gilberto Perez
suggests that Mother shifting her confidence from Father to the FBI
agent is another instance of responsibility moving from the
community to an institutional hired gun, as was apparent in westerns.
It's fascinating too that McCarey shows what has to be
mainstream Hollywood's first use of surveillance camera footage
(linking My Son John to Millennium Mambo).
What I'm having trouble justifying is the mother's emotional
behavior, which swings unpredictably back and forth between
extremes, and results in her rather unambiguously ratting on
her own son. (In light of McCarey's unsparing appreciation for
humanity's foibles, it's interesting that McCarey's first
work in Hollywood was as Tod Browning's assistant,
apparently on Outside the Law and White Tiger, both excellent
films).
--Robert Keser
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
wrote:
> The proper research on this film--which would entail looking at the
> original script and studio records at Paramount, the kind of work
> carried out by Bill Krohn on Hitchcock--has yet to be done. But, as
> nearly as I've been able to work out, McCarey originally intended
> Robert Walker to recant "in person" and certainly not to die at the
> end; the tape recording was made by Walker as a work tool while
> preparing the part.
>
> Although the film is certainly right-wing in most respects, it
starts
> to become complicated in a really interesting way once sees Walker
> consciously playing up the gay subtext (or, rather, the alternate
> meaning) of his character and thus coming very close to
"subverting"
> the film from within--which, as I recall, is close to the way James
> Baldwin sees it in The Devil Finds Work (an interesting
nonaueteurist
> analysis, even if he gets some of his facts wrong). I believe
Donald
> Phelps has also written very perceptively about the film in his
essay
> on Warshow, pointing out quite persuasively that McCarey is
perfectly
> aware of the father as a silly character even if he backs his
> politics. As for whether or not the film qualifies in part as black
> comedy, I tend to think that much of the best McCarey tends to have
> these ambiguities of tone, which is part of what I think is so
great
> about this film, for all (and to some degree even because of) its
> serious derangement.
9992
From: Robert Keser
Date: Wed May 19, 2004 3:28am
Subject: Re: My Son John: ending and essence
So you think McCarey didn't intend to have John shot down on the
steps of the Lincoln Memorial? (Actually, that's close to the way
Tourneur's The Fearmakers ends). All the threads of the movie
seem to lead to some vanished (never filmed?) scene of catharsis
where Mother and Son achieve some kind of new accomodation. (The
Robert Walker tribute website has a fairly hefty biography of the
actor that says "several key scenes" remained to be filmed).
Great tip about Baldwin and Phelps! I wouldn't have thought to
look in either one. Also, in The Material Ghost, Gilberto Perez
suggests that Mother shifting her confidence from Father to the FBI
agent is another instance of responsibility moving from the
community to an institutional hired gun, as was apparent in westerns.
It's fascinating too that McCarey shows what has to be
mainstream Hollywood's first use of surveillance camera footage
(linking My Son John to Millennium Mambo).
What I'm having trouble justifying is the mother's emotional
behavior, which swings unpredictably back and forth between
extremes, and results in her rather unambiguously ratting on
her own son. (In light of McCarey's unsparing appreciation for
humanity's foibles, it's interesting that McCarey's first
work in Hollywood was as Tod Browning's assistant,
apparently on Outside the Law and White Tiger, both excellent
films).
--Robert Keser
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
wrote:
> The proper research on this film--which would entail looking at the
> original script and studio records at Paramount, the kind of work
> carried out by Bill Krohn on Hitchcock--has yet to be done. But, as
> nearly as I've been able to work out, McCarey originally intended
> Robert Walker to recant "in person" and certainly not to die at the
> end; the tape recording was made by Walker as a work tool while
> preparing the part.
>
> Although the film is certainly right-wing in most respects, it
starts
> to become complicated in a really interesting way once sees Walker
> consciously playing up the gay subtext (or, rather, the alternate
> meaning) of his character and thus coming very close to
"subverting"
> the film from within--which, as I recall, is close to the way James
> Baldwin sees it in The Devil Finds Work (an interesting
nonaueteurist
> analysis, even if he gets some of his facts wrong). I believe
Donald
> Phelps has also written very perceptively about the film in his
essay
> on Warshow, pointing out quite persuasively that McCarey is
perfectly
> aware of the father as a silly character even if he backs his
> politics. As for whether or not the film qualifies in part as black
> comedy, I tend to think that much of the best McCarey tends to have
> these ambiguities of tone, which is part of what I think is so
great
> about this film, for all (and to some degree even because of) its
> serious derangement.
9993
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed May 19, 2004 4:01am
Subject: Re: My Son John: ending and essence
> What I'm having trouble justifying is the mother's emotional
> behavior
She's one of my least favorite actresses.
> > The proper research on this film--which would entail looking at
the
> > original script and studio records at Paramount, the kind of work
> > carried out by Bill Krohn on Hitchcock--has yet to be done.
Paramount's files are all at the Academy Library, for anyone who
wants to check. The ones on The Man Who Knew Too Much, Vertigo and
Rear Window are quite extensive - way more than what was in the
Hitchcock Collection at the same library - and there were even
several files for The Space Children, although that was a small under-
the-radar production. So the ones on My Son John would probably
include all the scripts, production reports, script [supervisor]
reports, correspondence, budgets, research, sound, music, effects
work, etc.
9994
From: Andy Rector
Date: Wed May 19, 2004 5:38am
Subject: Godard serves up a reporter from Ha'aretz
Jean-Luc Godard serves up a reporter from Haaretz
By Uri Klein
CANNES - French director Jean-Luc Godard has referred to the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict in many of his recent films, some of
which range from features to documentaries and function on a level
that goes beyond this contrast. But since "Ici et Ailleurs" [Here and
Elsewhere] of 1976, which was about the Palestine Liberation
Organization, Godard has not made a film in which the conflict has
been so central as in "Our Music," which is being screened at the
Cannes festival outside the competition.
One of the film's main characters is an Israeli of French extraction
who works as a freelance journalist for Haaretz, and who even speaks
Hebrew in a few of the scenes. Incidentally, the front page of Haaretz
is given a very nice close-up in the film and another character in the
movie says in French of the paper, "Not at all a bad paper."
"Our Music," which is 80 minutes long, is made up of three parts. The
first part, called "Hell," is a collage of war images from news
magazines and films. The third part is called "Paradise," and it
contains one of the figures that appeared earlier walking along a
quiet beach guarded by American Marines. The middle and main part of
the film is called "Purgatory," the purifying transition phase before
the entry into paradise. This part takes place in Sarajevo, and Godard
himself can be seen arriving in the city, together with other
visitors, including the poet Mahmoud Darwish (who in the film is
interviewed by the Israeli journalist), to participate in a literary
conference.
Godard chose to locate the principal part of the film in Sarajevo - a
city which had been at war 10 years earlier, after which the sides
learned to live in coexistence. Can this happen in other areas of the
world, especially the Middle East? On this narrative and morphological
basis, Godard creates a film that discusses the relations between the
I and the other, and views them as the center of the political,
historical and cultural reality that he is focusing on. Because Godard
is both theoretician and poet (in his recent films, the poet in him
often dominates the theoretician), many of the statements in the film
are ambiguous. But this ambiguity does not necessarily detract from
their effectiveness. For example, when Godard announces in the film
that the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 turned the
Israeli into protagonists of feature cinema and the Palestinians into
the protagonists of documentary cinema, it does not matter if this
statement has any real meaning. One may mock the French ease and
elegance of these statements, along with the manner in which Godard
uses them to weave a truly rash dialectic fabric, but the very
formulation of these statements and their inclusion in the film,
introduce into it echoes of Godard's accumulated work, turning them
into semi-abstract practical and theoretical materials. These
materials are what gradually turn "Our Music" into yet another chapter
in the fascinating intellectual autobiography - a work in the making
for the past 40 years - that is the cinema of Jean-Luc Goddard.
9995
From: L C
Date: Wed May 19, 2004 3:54pm
Subject: Re "My Son John" and Lincoln + Tony Randall
Not remembering having seen that movie, I'm struck again by the iconic use of Lincoln, a- as a father figure I suppose b- as the subtext equivalent of the Cold War as Civil War ( HUAC) which made me think of "Gods and Generals" and what Lincoln said about invoking God in time of war. Thanks also for the infos about Tony Randall, it goes well with his" National Actors Theatre " Luc
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail : votre e-mail personnel et gratuit qui vous suit partout !
Créez votre Yahoo! Mail
Dialoguez en direct avec vos amis grâce à Yahoo! Messenger !
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9996
From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Wed May 19, 2004 4:10pm
Subject: Re: My Son John: ending and essence
> So you think McCarey didn't intend to have John shot down on the
> steps of the Lincoln Memorial? (Actually, that's close to the way
> Tourneur's The Fearmakers ends).
McCarey addresses this briefly in the Bogdanovich interview, where he does say that the character wasn't intended to die (where does the Lincoln Memorial hypothesis come from?), and explains how the speech came to be recorded (apparently, just days before Walker's death). He also touches on the ridiculousness of the Jagger character (invoking O'Neill here). I think he says it would have been his best film if Walker hadn't died.
9997
From: Robert Keser
Date: Wed May 19, 2004 5:05pm
Subject: Re: My Son John: ending and essence
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"
wrote:
> McCarey addresses this briefly in the Bogdanovich interview, where
he does say that the character wasn't intended to die (where does
the Lincoln Memorial hypothesis come from?)
I've found this several places, but it seems to trace back to an All
Movie Guide commentary on My Son John by Sandra Brennan, which was
then linked in the NYT (and probably spread virally from there).
>and explains how the speech came to be recorded (apparently, just
days before Walker's death). He also touches on the ridiculousness
of the Jagger character (invoking O'Neill here). I think he says it
would have been his best film if Walker hadn't died.
The real genius of this movie is to situate the communist-in-the-
woodpile plot inside the family melodrama of educated son clashing
with intuitive parents. (With all the Lincoln iconography, it's also
interesting that the family is named Jefferson!)
--Robert Keser
9998
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed May 19, 2004 5:36pm
Subject: Re: Re: My Son John: ending and essence
--- Robert Keser wrote:
>
> The real genius of this movie is to situate the
> communist-in-the-
> woodpile plot inside the family melodrama of
> educated son clashing
> with intuitive parents.
And this is precisely why "My Son John" is such an
important a gay movie. FAR more than "Cruising." I'm
scarcely the first person to have brought this up, as
I'm sure everyone on the list is well aware, but
Walker's reactions to an interplay with his parents
are fairly precise evocations (be it through accident
or design) of the gay dispora. Alienated from one's
own parents because of sexual orientation -- not
conscious decision to 'revolt" -- gays and lesbians
spend the first half of their lives in flight from
their own homes and the second half trying to return
to it in either coporeal or psychic fashion. "My Son
John" presents the classic image of the "good son" who
is "corrupted" by "outside forces" -- a sickeningly
precise embodiment to the crippling
anti-intellectualism of American life that perists
today. This was reaching a crisis point during the
period in which the film was made, as the
gay/communist connection was all over the place, what
with Burgess and MacLean in England and Chambers and
Hiss in the U.S. Working hand in hand with this was a
desire to re-write history -- wipe out the 30's where
progressives of all sorts found themselves joining the
CP,later leaving it and then being asked to denounce
it. It's "deja vu all over again" now with the 60's
being the "demon decade" that the Doxa demands we
reject.
I've just finished reading Deborah Jowitt's excellent
new biography of Jerome Robbins where the
gay/communist interface literally explodes. In one of
Robbins'notebooks, Jowitt found this passage about why
he squealed to HUAC written many years later:
"It was my homosexuality I was afraid would be exposed
I thought. It was my once having been a Comunist that
I was aftraid would be exposed. None of these. I was &
have been -- & still have terrible pangs of terror
when I feel that my career, work, veneer of
accomplishments would be taken away (by HUAC, or by
critics) that I panicked & crumbled & returned to that
primitive state of terror -- the faced of Jerry
Robbins would be cracked open, and behind everyone
would finally see Jerome Wilson Rabinowitz."
Incredibly brilliant, Robbins should have made many
more movies than "West Side Story." But he was
monstrous, sad, frightened little man. I met him on
one occasion, when he was going wiht Warren Sonbert.
Warren couldn't understand why Robbins was so haunted
and fearful. In his eyes he was a great artist, should
have earned everyone's respect for that, and should
have felt more secure than anyone alive.
But he didn't. In fact when I think of panicked fearmy
first thought is of Jerome Robbins' face.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
9999
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed May 19, 2004 6:31pm
Subject: Re: My Son John: ending and essence
Thanks for those great notes, David. The HUAC-homosexuality interface
is well documented by Robert J. Corber and even analyzed in the
chapter on Strangers on a Train in In the Name of National Security -
an indispensable but unfortunately badly writen book about the
liberal Hitchcock's alignment of his films with the directives of the
National Security State during the Cold War, and the way the films
rattle that cage. Corber doesn't mention My Son John, which of course
used footage Hitchcock lent McCarey from Strangers to show the
protagonist's death.
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
> http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
10000
From: Kevin Lee
Date: Wed May 19, 2004 8:12pm
Subject: Re: Most incompetent professional film review ever?
oh boy, when you get to see it, will you be in for a treat. It was
one of my favorite films of last year. The only reason I saw it at
all was due to the wisdom of the programmers at Lincoln Centers' Film
Comment Selects series.
Actually his third feature is the transsexual crime flick ADVENTURE
OF IRON PUSSY, but I was advised by other A.W. fans to avoid it, as
it was reportedly done as a favor to the screenwriter and doesn't
bear his signature. I'm still tempted to check it out (if I ever get
another chance -- I missed it in both Berlin and San Francisco)
Kevin
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "samfilms2003" wrote:
>
> I'll leave it to someone else, except to say it's his third feature
(I think) and
> am still waiting to see the second - "Blissfully Yours" because I
loved the
> first - "Mysterious Object at Noon"
a_film_by Main Page
Home Film
Art
Other: (Travel, Rants, Obits)
Links About
Contact