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12201


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:38pm
Subject: Re: Wages and contemporary language
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Thanks David. Nice to see your picture. Are you
> > the one with hair?
> > >
> > >
>
> Alas, no.
>
>
> Oh but women keep telling it's very sexy to have no hair. And some
of the sexier gay guys are hairless too.

So tell us about your relationship with Todd ( is that OT? If so, I
apologize).
>
> JPC
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
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12202


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 0:28am
Subject: Re: Re: Wages and contemporary language
 
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
>
> wrote:
> > --- jpcoursodon wrote:

>
> So tell us about your relationship with Todd ( is
> that OT? If so, I
> apologize).
> >

I first met Todd a number of years back when we were
jurors at the USA Film Festival in Dallas. It was
right at the time of the bombing of the Federal
Building in Oklahoma City.

On our day off Todd and I went downtown to visit the
Texas School Book depository Musem together. And let
me tell everyone right here and right now that Oswald
did it and he acted alone. Unless you've actually been
there you can't imagine what Dealy Plaza is like.

It's tiny.

And the road rises up right in front of the building.
Stone and the conspiracy crazies go into a whole song
and dance about how difficult it was to kill JFK, but
I looked out of that window and frankly Oswald could
have beaned him over the head with a frying pan.

Todd went to school with JFK Jr., btw. A big ol'
boring jock he recalled. His best pals at school were
Elizabeth McGovern, one of Paul Newman's daughters
(Susan) and Jennifer Jason Leigh -- who had taken the
name of her stepfather Reza Badyi.

An Iranian immigant who came to the U.S. in the early
60's, Badyi's first job was as a.d. on a very low
budget independent film called (wait for it!)
"Carnival of Souls." He has since gone on to do a lot
of television.

Todd knew of me before Dallas because I'd been one of
his biggest fans for "Poison." He was at that time
DEEPLY in love with James Lyons -- his editor,
collaborator and sometime actor. (Lyons appeared as
the prisoner in the Genet section of "Poison" and
played Billy Name in Mary Herron's "I Shot Andy
Warhol.")

As devestating the idea of having a cinematic genius
for a boyfriend may be, Todd and I are too much alike.
Moreover I'm old enough to be his father if I were
straight.

Currently he's cultivating one of Portland's many
sultry artistic-minded 25 year-olds. And considering
the fact that Portland is Gus van Ssnt's base of
oeprations too, if you dropped a bomb on the place the
New Queer Cinema would be over.

But it's not all Queer, as Todd tells me that Charlie
Kaufman has moved there too.

This means that Portland is the epicenter of the
"cutting edge" regardless of sexual orientation.







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12203


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 0:46am
Subject: Re: Bunuel's book
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, samadams@e... wrote:
> "This book has been modified from its original format. It has has
> been altered to fit your attention span and/or cultural prejudices."
>
> Sam
>
> >
> >It wouldn't be half as bad if publishers in the US had the decency
to
> >put - even in microscopic print - a disclaimer along the lines of
> >"Portions of the original have been altered for this edition" or
some
> >such.
> >
> > Jan Bielawski
> >
> > Mastersofcinema.org

Yes, but I can tell you that French publishers of English-
language film books do the same thing and worse. They even have books
entirely rewritten (rather than translated) to become more accessible
to a supposedly younger readership.
12204


From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:19am
Subject: Re: Bunuel's book
 
I have always been familiar with the Spanish edition of the book which cont=
ains (how
can it be any other way??!!) Bu˝uel's phrase about the blind. In fact, I ha=
ve often
pondered this sort of misanthropy in Bu˝uel's work and wonder what Bill's i=
nsights on
this are. The other illuminating text on Bu˝uel (also available in an Engli=
sh version) is
Tomas Perez Turrent and Jose dela Colina's BUNUEL POR BUNUEL. Bill I suppos=
e it's
useless to you now (or maybe not - let me know) I have an interview with Je=
an-Claude
Carriere, composed by both my aunt and I in Paris about 7 years ago.

Gabe
12205


From: Noel Vera
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:18am
Subject: Re: Brazilian films
 
Felipe thanks for the response, late or not;
appreciate a report from the man on the spot.



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12206


From: Michael Worrall
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:27am
Subject: Murnau (Was: filmmakers with greater continuity with silent film)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "samfilms2003"
wrote:
> > I've always wondered if Murnau being cut short from making
> > sound films was tragedy or fate.
>
> Do you have any doubt he would have done some great Film
noir ?
> (considering what his contemporaries did...)
>
> I don't think I do..
>
> -Sam


I don't think I was expressing any doudt, just the unfortunate fact
that Murnau's life/career was cut short before he had a chance
to work in sound. I would have loved to have seen what he
would have done in the sound medium. Though I do not
necessarily believe he would have made film noir by default by
being a German emigree. He did make "Sunrise" and "City Girl"
for Fox.

Michael Worrall
12207


From: Richard Modiano
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:17am
Subject: Re: Murnau (Was: filmmakers with greater continuity with silent film)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Worrall"
wrote:

"I don't think I was expressing any doudt, just the unfortunate fact
that Murnau's life/career was cut short before he had a chance
to work in sound. I would have loved to have seen what he
would have done in the sound medium. Though I do not
necessarily believe he would have made film noir by default by
being a German emigree. He did make "Sunrise" and "City Girl"
for Fox."


One can only speculate on what Murnau would have done had he enjoyed
a long life, but the record of his correspondence after he completed
TABU indicates that he intended to work as an independent
filmmaker "out of doors" as he put it, so maybe his immediate future
projects would have been avant garde rather than studio productions.
Alas, we'll never know.

Richard
12208


From: George Robinson
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:33am
Subject: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
AAFTR was on the Fox Movie Channel today and I got to talking with my
wife -- who hasn't seen either version but likes McCarey -- about the
feeling I have, shared by several of my friends including a couple of
listmembers, that one's enthusiasm for the two films usually runs in the
order in which you saw them. I saw AAFTR first and prefer it -- by a small
margin -- to Love Affair, although I think both are great films. I'm curious
if that is anybody else's experience.

George (I prefer my first wife, but then I haven't had a second one)
Robinson


Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan
12209


From: Michael Worrall
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:02am
Subject: Re: My directors pantheon
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Noel Vera
wrote:
> Goodm comprehensive and nicely eclectic list, Michael.
> May I submit a few more names for your consideration:
>
> Larry Cohen
> Ritwik Ghatak
> Mario O'Hara
> Lino Brocka

Thanks Noel,

The list was cut and paste off an Excel sheet I've been working
on, and I apologize to all for not proofing some the directors'
names. I have been out of thinking, writing and working on film
for about 6 years now, and have only got back into the
habit/passion recently. (Which I am grateful to this board helping
the spark light up again.) Since my list of directors has been
slowly evolving, I knew I'd forget some names: Leos Carax came
to me last night.

I watch a good deal of Asian cinema -- mostly Chinese, then
Korean and Japanese, but outside two horror films that Eddie
Romero made: "Mad Doctor of Blood Island" and "Twilight
People", I have seen no other films from the Philippines. The
neighborhood I live in has two Filipino video stores, along with a
HK rental place that I am a member of, so whom along with the
two directors can you also recommend? (When I ask my Filipino
friends here in SF what to see, they roll there eyes and seem
much more interested in Hollywood fare. )

My focus on cinema shifts: in my early teenage years to early
twenties I was wrapped up in silent and French cinema, my
twenties was British and in my thirties it's been Asian cinema. I
can't have a diet on only one type of cinema, and recently I have
been watching more silent film. The consistent area of film
watching in my life has been genre, with horror films stretching
back to the age of 8. (Lon Chaney's "Phantom" character and
Maria the Robot from Metropolis held strong fascinations with
me as a child.)

For Larry Cohen, I have seen: "Demon"/"God Told Me To", "It's
Alive" 1 & 2, "Island of the Alive", "Q', "The Stuff"- my college
drama teacher, Joe Stockdale has a bit part in it- and "Original
Gangsters" . I like all of them except "Original Gangsters", which
looked like Cohen was directing over the phone to a 3rd
assistant director. Robin Wood writes extensively on
"Demon"/"God told Me To" in his Vietnam to Reagan book.


Michael Worrall
12210


From:
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:04am
Subject: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
George Robinson wrote:

>I saw AAFTR first and prefer it -- by a small
>margin -- to Love Affair, although I think both are great films. I'm curious
>if that is anybody else's experience.

I saw the films in relatively close succession, though I'm not entirely sure
which I saw first; for what it's worth, despite my great admiration for "Love
Affair," I've come to love the later film a bit more. As both Tag and Damien
have pointed out, McCarey seems a little unsure of what to do with 'Scope from
time to time (or to put it another way: he didn't take to the format as, say,
Minnelli did), but he still manages to makes a great 'Scope film. Given the
somewhat flawed "Rally 'Round the Flag, Boys" (which Robin Wood nevertheless
has on his list of top 10 movies; I ought to re-see it) and "Satan Never
Sleeps," "An Affair to Remember" looks to me like the proverbial late masterpiece by
McCarey (though I could also make a similar case for "My Son John.")

The films hold a particular fascination for me in that they belong to a
really intriguing category of auteurs remaking their own movies. The one example
everybody knows about, of course, are Hitchcock's two versions of "The Man Who
Knew Too Much." Just as interesting to me are Walsh's two versions of the
same play by James Hagan: "The Strawberry Blonde" (1941) and "One Sunday
Afternoon" (1948). It was a fascinating exercise to watch both films back-to-back
recently. Despite numerous overlaps in story and dialogue (of course), but also
specific shots and staging (despite the rather big visual difference of "One
Sunday Afternoon" being in color), the films feel quite different. Number one,
the later film is a musical - although arguably the non-musical "The
Strawberry Blonde" contains more memorable use of singing and music than the later
picture.

"The Strawberry Blonde" is my favorite Walsh, and "One Sunday Afternoon" will
never be that, but I'm curious (not to detract from George's original query)
how many here have seen it?

Peter
12211


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:05am
Subject: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
> "The Strawberry Blonde" is my favorite Walsh, and "One Sunday Afternoon" will
> never be that, but I'm curious (not to detract from George's original query)
> how many here have seen it?

I have, a long time ago. It seemed decent to me, not thrilling; but
Walsh is a blind spot of mine, and only a handful of his films get to
me. - Dan
12212


From: Andy Rector
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:12am
Subject: gratitude for A. Martin
 
Deference! Deference to the third issue of Rouge, Adrian Martin and
his band. The line you're drawing is ideal to me.
I clasp your hand in thanks,
andy
12213


From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:21am
Subject: Re: Bunuel's book
 
Bill I suppos=
> e it's
> useless to you now (or maybe not - let me know) I have an interview
with Je=
> an-Claude
> Carriere, composed by both my aunt and I in Paris about 7 years ago.
>
> Gabe

Thankfully that ship has just about sailed, but I'd love to see it.

The "I hate blind people" line is a puzzler. The common gloss is that
deaf people hate blind people, but no one ever says why. It may be a
gag. In the films you have several blind people: the one in L'age
d'or is definitely a gag -- crippled veterans were Chiappe's favorite
charity, so of course Modot mugs one. The beggar in Olvidados is
pretty bad, but the one in Viridiana is becomes rather impressive in
the low-angle dolly-in where he becomes our Lord, and the two blind
men at the end of Milky Way are kind of poetic and neither cloying
nor mean.

The archetype is from Lazarillo de Tormes, the "blindman" who is
Lazarillo's first master, but behind that lurks THE source of Spanish
archetypes for Bunuel, Las Hurdes. The author of the book that
inspired Land Without Bread speculated that Lazarillo's "blindman"
was from Las Hurdes, where beggars constituted an intellectual and
financial elite, although not a very moral one in comparison with
their poor but honest countrymen. Apparently Lazarillo's home village
was right next door to Las Hurdes. In any case, in Bunuel's
imagination, the blind beggars in Olvidados and Viridiana were almost
certainly Hurdanos.
12214


From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:26am
Subject: Re:(was contemporary language in old...
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
> wrote:
> people used to say all the time about Tony Curtis when he
> > was doing costumers.
> >
>
>
> Yes, because of his Brooklyn accent. But in fact he was no more
> anachronistic than anybody else.
>
Brooklyn supposedly hadn't been built yet when he said "Yonder lies
the castle of my Faddah the King." To me that's an anachronism: "a
mistake in placing something in a particular historical period" -- in
this case, Curtis's Brooklyn accent.
12215


From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:45am
Subject: Re: Wages and contemporary language
 
> Moreover you're overlooking Peter Van Eyck and his
> boyfirend in the other truck. Vanel wishes he and
> Montand could be like them, but they're not.

Hang on though. Van Eyck's "friend" in the other truck is Montand's
previous best pal. Montand rejects him as soon as the more suave
Vanel comes to town. Chubby befriends Van Eyck at this point.

Montand also starts neglecting Vera once he has the manly company of
Vanel to pass his time in.

This reminds me a lot of playground friendships of small children.

But if there's a homosexual element, Montand is mixed up in it, if as
David E suggests both his first pal and his second pal are gay. At
the least Montand would have to be a colossal prick-tease.

I think there's a homo-erotic bond between Vanel and Montand that's
unacknowledged, and that's as far as I'd be prepared to be sure.
12216


From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:54am
Subject: Re:(was contemporary language in old...
 
> Brooklyn supposedly hadn't been built yet when he said "Yonder lies
> the castle of my Faddah the King." To me that's an anachronism: "a
> mistake in placing something in a particular historical period" --
in
> this case, Curtis's Brooklyn accent.

OK, I'd grant accents as possible areas where performance cd stray
into anachronism. But Depp's accent is a kind of mockney, and no
different really from the way the other "low-class" characters talk
in PIRATES.

The Bowie-Richards mannerisms are a reference to something outwith
the film's historical frame of reference, but it totally works. But
it seems inconsistent of you to then to take issue with Rush for
possibly drawing upon recent cinematic influences. I'd agree that
Depp's is the more interesting choice, but to me there's nothing
WRONG with Rush using Lecter as an influence, if he is.

Excluding accents, if an actor decides that a medieval knight would
be like a modern footballer, or a Viking would be like a bank
manager, that's fine, if it works.
12217


From: George Robinson
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:34am
Subject: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
The other interesting category -- almost as small -- is great directors
remaking one another. The best example I can think of is La Chienne and
Scarlet Street. And boy are those two different!

Actually, Peter, you aren't deflecting discussion from my question at all,
but enriching it, because it brings to bear some fascinating theoretical
questions.

I agree that Remember is McCarey's great late masterpiece. I actually like
the way he uses 'Scope although he isn't as fluid or assured with the bigger
frame as Minnelli, Ray, Preminger (the usual suspects, add your own
favorites). But I also think that color gives the film another visual
dimension. What intrigues me is the difference in tone created by the
changes in casting. I wonder if he had thought of reuniting Grant and Dunne
in '39 and rejected it because he saw Grant as more of a comic actor; Boyer
gives Love Affair a gravitas McCarey might not have thought he'd get from
Grant back then. Obviously, by the '50s there could be no doubt about the
darker side of Grant's persona. Replacing Dunne, unfortunately, was
inevitable, given Hollywood's need to pair its leading men with younger
women; Boyer and Dunne are almost exactly a year apart, Grant is five years
younger than Dunne but 17 years older than Kerr (and Beatty is 21 years
older than Benning, although that is the very least of the ghastly remake's
problems). But Kerr is a much cooler actress than Dunne and I think that,
combined with the comic edge Grant brings to the part, gives the film an
even greater emotional force.

I wish I could offer a similar analysis of the two Walsh films. I love The
Strawberry Blonde, it's one of Walsh's nicest films, although as usual with
him there's this dark edgy subtext throughout. I saw the remake in the MoMA
Walsh retrospective about 30 years ago and recall nothing except that it
wasn't very good. I don't know if I'd still feel that way. I've never
thought Walsh's uses of color was all that distinctive, Dennis Morgan sure
ain't no James Cagney, Don DeFore really is a poor man's Jack Carson and
Dorothy Malone, while splendid in her way, is no match for Rita Hayworth.
By the way, has anyone seen the 1933 version with Gary Cooper (dir. Stephen
Roberts) or read James Hagan's play?

What about other directors remaking their own work? The first example that
comes to mind -- and it's an even more clear-cut case than the Walsh -- is
Hawks's "Ball of Fire" and "A Song Is Born." The former is sublime, the
latter, musicalized again, is coarse, vulgar and strident; the key is the
loss of the Wilder-Brackett script and the differences in the casting.

George (Coarse, strident, vulgar and proud of it) Robinson

Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan
12218


From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Bunuel's book (and blindness)
 
> The "I hate blind people" line is a puzzler. The common gloss is
that deaf people hate blind people, but no one ever says why. >
> The archetype is from Lazarillo de Tormes, the "blindman" who is
> Lazarillo's first master, but behind that lurks THE source of
Spanish archetypes for Bunuel, Las Hurdes. The author of the book
that inspired Land Without Bread speculated that
Lazarillo's "blindman" was from Las Hurdes, where beggars
constituted an intellectual and financial elite, although not a very
moral one in comparison with their poor but honest countrymen.
Apparently Lazarillo's home village was right next door to Las
Hurdes. In any case, in Bunuel's imagination, the blind beggars in
Olvidados and Viridiana were almost certainly Hurdanos.


This hatred of the blind was something which Dali shared with
Bunuel. He used to boast that his hatred of the blind was so intense
that, as an adolescent, whenever he saw a blind person walking down
the street he would run over and kick their canes out from under
them. (This may have been during the period when he and Bunuel were
performing various pranks on the streets of Madrid. I don't recall.)
Dali's phrasing of this adventure implied that, for him, hatred of
the blind was a kind of aesthetic issue: He would do an imitation
and caricature of the blind, eyes closed, walking down the street in
a simpering fashion and describe how the image of this sickened him.
I'm not sure to what extent such attitudes towards the blind in
Bunuel and Dali have their basis in a Surrealist investment in the
visual and the fetishistic, something in which the blind cannot
partake and hence the hatred and caricature of them.
12219


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:13pm
Subject: Re: Re: Wages and contemporary language
 
--- cairnsdavid1967 wrote:

> Hang on though. Van Eyck's "friend" in the other
> truck is Montand's
> previous best pal. Montand rejects him as soon as
> the more suave
> Vanel comes to town. Chubby befriends Van Eyck at
> this point.
>
in other words, "Those Who Love Me Can Take the Truck"

> Montand also starts neglecting Vera once he has the
> manly company of
> Vanel to pass his time in.
>
> This reminds me a lot of playground friendships of
> small children.
>
And manipulative bisexuals -- like Nick Ray.

> But if there's a homosexual element, Montand is
> mixed up in it, if as
> David E suggests both his first pal and his second
> pal are gay. At
> the least Montand would have to be a colossal
> prick-tease.
>
You got it!

> I think there's a homo-erotic bond between Vanel and
> Montand that's
> unacknowledged, and that's as far as I'd be prepared
> to be sure.
>
>
Oh it's acknowledged alright. But more on Vanel's part
because he's clearly in love with Montand -- whose
feelings for anyone of either sex are much, much cooler.



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12220


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:17pm
Subject: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
--- ptonguette@a... wrote:

>
> "The Strawberry Blonde" is my favorite Walsh, and
> "One Sunday Afternoon" will
> never be that, but I'm curious (not to detract from
> George's original query)
> how many here have seen it?
>
I've seen "The Strawberry Blonde" and it's one of my
favorite Walsh's too. The entire cast is teriffic, but
Olivia DeHaviland stands out in particular as it's the
sort of spritied roleshe was rarely given.



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12221


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:21pm
Subject: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
--- George Robinson wrote:
I saw AAFTR first and
> prefer it -- by a small
> margin -- to Love Affair, although I think both are
> great films. I'm curious
> if that is anybody else's experience.
>

I prefer the second to the first because of the
genuine chemistry between Grant and Kerr that's far
more complex than that of the otherwise admirable
Boyer and Dunne.

And then there's THAT SONG!

I shall now metamorphoze into a big sobbing Meg Ryan.



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12222


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:30pm
Subject: Re:(was contemporary language in old...
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
> wrote:
> > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
> > wrote:
> > people used to say all the time about Tony Curtis when he
> > > was doing costumers.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Yes, because of his Brooklyn accent. But in fact he was no
more
> > anachronistic than anybody else.
> >
> Brooklyn supposedly hadn't been built yet when he said "Yonder lies
> the castle of my Faddah the King." To me that's an anachronism: "a
> mistake in placing something in a particular historical period" --
in
> this case, Curtis's Brooklyn accent.


Actually it was a Bronx accent (at least he was born in the
Bronx) -- although I'm not sure I can tell the difference between a
Bronx and a Brooklyn accent.

Anyway you're saying exactly the same thing I said. No American
actor was born in a place that had been built at the time the movie
is set. Therefore any accent has to be anachronistic.

By the way I've never seen it. Was it "Son of Ali Baba" or "Black
Shield of Falworth"? I bet his accent was not as heavy as jokers have
claimed for decades. The legend becomes fact (like the non-existent
line "Play it again, Sam").

JPC
12223


From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:32pm
Subject: Re: Bunuel's book (and blindness)
 
When I first read the post about 'I hate blind people,' I immediately
associated it with the fact that cinema is a visual medium in which
blind people cannot participate.
I once saw a film that was created by blind students who were
given cameras and, well ... aimed them in whatever direction
they deemed interesting. Needless to say, it was a unique
perspective on cinema.



--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "joe_mcelhaney" wrote:
> I'm not sure to what extent such attitudes towards the blind in
> Bunuel and Dali have their basis in a Surrealist investment in the
> visual and the fetishistic, something in which the blind cannot
> partake and hence the hatred and caricature of them.
12224


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:44pm
Subject: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> And then there's THAT SONG!
>
> I shall now metamorphoze into a big sobbing Meg Ryan.
>
>
> Yes, THAT SONG! But alas there is also the ethnically
balanced bunch of atrocious kids singing that awful other song
(typical McCarey to be sure but still hard to sit through). So I
would go for "LOVE AFFAIR" but by a small margin too.
JPC
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
12225


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:23pm
Subject: Re: Re:(was contemporary language in old...
 
--- jpcoursodon wrote:

>
> By the way I've never seen it. Was it "Son of
> Ali Baba" or "Black
> Shield of Falworth"? I bet his accent was not as
> heavy as jokers have
> claimed for decades. The legend becomes fact (like
> the non-existent
> line "Play it again, Sam").
>
It was from "The Prince Who Was a Thief." And yes his
accent wasn't as heavy as the jokers would have it.





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
12226


From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:44pm
Subject: Re: Wages and contemporary language
 
> > I think there's a homo-erotic bond between Vanel and
> > Montand that's
> > unacknowledged, and that's as far as I'd be prepared
> > to be sure.
> >
> >
> Oh it's acknowledged alright. But more on Vanel's part
> because he's clearly in love with Montand -- whose
> feelings for anyone of either sex are much, much cooler.

It's all simply too, too beastly to contemplate!

Apart from Dora the lesbian in QUAI, are there any other signs of an
interest in same-sex shenanigans in Clouzot? LES ESPIONS seems fairly
sexless, and LA PRISONNIERE more concerned with heterosexual power
games.

Just saw THESE THREE for the first time, so now I know the
inspiration for the creepy little girl in LE CORBEAU!
12227


From: Craig Keller
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:53pm
Subject: One Sunday Afternoon (was: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
>"The Strawberry Blonde" is my favorite Walsh, and "One Sunday Afternoon" will
>never be that, but I'm curious (not to detract from George's original query)
>how many here have seen it?

I've seen it (sorry if this thread is already over and done with, haven't had a chance to read email) -- there's something about the musical numbers, perhaps their more-or-less "locked"/static quality, that really works for the film -- they become in effect not so much song-and-dance numbers as "carols," and given the subject matter and setting of the film, this quality seems wholly appropriate to the picture and even more effectively evocative of the era than a more "dynamic" mise en scene might convey. It would be interesting to program 'One Sunday Afternoon' next to 'The Magnficent Ambersons,' for many reasons -- mise en scene -and- thematic.

craig.
12228


From: Fred Camper
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
jpcoursodon wrote:

> Yes, THAT SONG! But alas there is also the ethnically
>
>
>balanced bunch of atrocious kids singing that awful other song
>(typical McCarey to be sure but still hard to sit through).....
>

Well, I'm sure in a bad film I'd really hate those kids singing; I
certainly don't need to buy the recording. But I love this scene in "An
Affair to Remember," stupid cuts to face close-ups and all. McCarey's
vision has a directness and sincerity that reminds me of a key scene in
Stahl, the "other" woman looking at the picture of her lover with a
transcendent, anti-Sirkian effect. I see "through" the kids to something
else. The pseudo-mysticism of this statement will doubtless prove
obnoxious to some, but I think it's a key to "An Affair to Remember,"
which I like hugely more than "Love Affair," which is also great.

Once again the mystery of an auteurist classic is that something that is
stupid on its face becomes great. I mean, there's no defense for the
"nympho" scene in "Shock Corridor" except in Fullerian terms, right?

And as long as we're on the subject of musicals, I think "A Song is
Born" is even greater than "Ball of Fire." The professors are humiliated
more; it looks forward to "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes" and "Man's Favorite
Sport?" actually. And the space of their main room, with its clutter, is
I think quite wonderfully Hawksian.

And some think I don't like musicals!

I haven't seen "One Sunday Afternoon." "Strawberry Blonde" is certainly
tremendous, with wonderful Walshian rhythm. Another pair of films in
which Walsh remade his own: "High Sierra" and "Colorado Territory." The
latter is even better than the former. If the director is great, I think
the later one is almost always going to be better than the earlier one,
though I can't think of other examples at the moment.

- Fred Camper
12229


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:06pm
Subject: Non-existent lines (was contemporary language in old...)
 
>>The legend becomes fact (like
>>the non-existent
>>line "Play it again, Sam").

Speaking of non-existent lines: does anyone have any information on the
origin of "Judy, Judy, Judy"? I've often heard that Cary Grant never
said any such thing, but I wonder if the Judy in question isn't Rita
Hayworth's character in ONLY ANGELS HAVE WINGS.

> It was from "The Prince Who Was a Thief."

I once successfuly identified a person as being from the Bronx because
he talked like Tony Curtis. - Dan
12230


From: Craig Keller
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
>Well, I'm sure in a bad film I'd really hate those kids singing; I
>certainly don't need to buy the recording. But I love this scene in "An
>Affair to Remember," stupid cuts to face close-ups and all. ... I see "through" the kids to something
>else. The pseudo-mysticism of this statement will doubtless prove
>obnoxious to some, but I think it's a key to "An Affair to Remember,"
>which I like hugely more than "Love Affair," which is also great.
>
>Once again the mystery of an auteurist classic is that something that is
>stupid on its face becomes great. I mean, there's no defense for the
>"nympho" scene in "Shock Corridor" except in Fullerian terms, right?

I find the children-singing scene to be very cloying, but I can dig an argument for its defense -- especially considering the fact that the film around it might be seen as so powerful it operates almost as an interlude that captures some kind of essence of the film around it -- take the nympho scene in 'Shock Corridor' or the children-pirate-singing scene in 'The Naked Kiss' -- both of which are perhaps more focused distillations of what surrounds them than the children scene in 'An Affair to Remember.' Thinking off-hand of the children in the McCarey, another scene always springs to mind which I find much more revelatory of "the human soul" -- the opening of Bergman's 'The Magic Flute.'

craig.
12231


From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:22pm
Subject: Re: One Sunday Afternoon (was: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
wrote:
> >"The Strawberry Blonde" is my favorite Walsh, and "One Sunday
Afternoon" will
> >never be that, but I'm curious (not to detract from George's
original query)
> >how many here have seen it?

My first piece of film criticism was about One Sunday Afternoon. It
appeared in a little mimeographed magazine in NY called The Thousand
Eyes. OSA is to Strawberry Blonde more or less as the Wilder-Diamond
Front Page is to His Girl Friday: it totally "de-constructs" Walsh's
own original, and his whole oeuvre. Very grim. Walsh spent much of
the postwar period remaking his prewar masterpieces, and I believe
OSA was the first example of that. It set the tone for what was to
come.
12232


From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:25pm
Subject: Re: Wages and contemporary language
 
> Apart from Dora the lesbian in QUAI, are there any other signs of
an
> interest in same-sex shenanigans in Clouzot?

What would you call the hot girl-girl inaction in Diabolique?
12233


From: Damien Bona
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:31pm
Subject: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
I much prefer Love Affair -- which I did see before the remake --
because I find it much more focused, the more immediate 1.37 to 1
ratio more appropriate for McCarey's loving and humane treatment of
his characters and his direct, unbridled emotionalism than 'scope.


Admittedly, though, I'm not absolutely crazy about either (neither of
them would be among my top 10 McCarey films) because I find that the
way the director pulls back from inherent sheer romanticism of the
material to be frustrating and not counterbalanced by a compensatory
factor. I much prefer the other 1939 Charles Boyer/Irene Dunne
collaboration, John Stahl's When Tomorrow Comes.

Incidentally, McCarey preferred Love Affair to An Affair To Remember
because he thought Boyer was much better than Grant, and I'd
certainly agree with him there.

(On the other hand, I saw Colorado Territory after High Sierra, and I
think the re-make is far superior.)

-- Damien

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:
> AAFTR was on the Fox Movie Channel today and I got to talking with
my> wife -- who hasn't seen either version but likes McCarey -- about
the > feeling I have, shared by several of my friends including a
couple of > listmembers, that one's enthusiasm for the two films
usually runs in the > order in which you saw them.
12234


From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:34pm
Subject: Re:(was contemporary language in old...
 
> The Bowie-Richards mannerisms are a reference to something outwith
> the film's historical frame of reference, but it totally works. But
> it seems inconsistent of you to then to take issue with Rush for
> possibly drawing upon recent cinematic influences. I'd agree that
> Depp's is the more interesting choice, but to me there's nothing
> WRONG with Rush using Lecter as an influence, if he is.
>
> Excluding accents, if an actor decides that a medieval knight would
> be like a modern footballer, or a Viking would be like a bank
> manager, that's fine, if it works.

I completely agree. I just thought Rush was pathetic, and when an
actor's pereformance doesn't convince you, you see the wires.
Besides, the caressing-the-syllables mannerism had already turned to
ashes in the mouth of the guy who devised it by the time he made Red
Dragon, so imitating it was a really bad idea!
12235


From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:38pm
Subject: Re: Bunuel's book (and blindness)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth Anne Nolan"
wrote:
> When I first read the post about 'I hate blind people,' I
immediately
> associated it with the fact that cinema is a visual medium in which
> blind people cannot participate.
> I once saw a film that was created by blind students who were
> given cameras and, well ... aimed them in whatever direction
> they deemed interesting.

I think I saw it -- it was by Michael Almereyda.
12236


From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:40pm
Subject: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
> >
> > Yes, THAT SONG! But alas there is also the ethnically
> balanced bunch of atrocious kids singing that awful other song
> (typical McCarey to be sure but still hard to sit through).

Didn't Fuller parody that number in The Naked Kiss?
12237


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:45pm
Subject: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Fred Camper wrote:

> If the director is great, I think the later one is almost always
> going to be better than the earlier one,
> though I can't think of other examples at the moment.
>
> - Fred Camper

Hitchcock's MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH?

And not the same director, but Stahl vs. Sirk's IMITATION OF LIFE
and MAGNIFICENT OBSESSION?

-Jaime
12238


From: Damien Bona
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:47pm
Subject: Re:(was contemporary language in old...
 
It's actually from Son of Ali Baba and the real line isn't "Yondah
lies the castle of my faddah," but "This is my faddah's palace, and
yondah lies the Valley of the Sun." (You can read all about it in my
book "Starring John Wayne As Genghis Khan.")

Physically, his swarthiness made Curtis look right for Middle Eastern
adventure tales (except for his pompadour), it was just when he
opened his mouth . . . . In other films like The Black Shield of
Falworth,The Vikings and The Purple Mask, he is ludicrous both
visually and verbally.

Having said that, I also maintain that given an appropriate role,
Curtis was a wonderful actor, and I love his work in Mister Cory,
Operation Petticoat, The Rat Race and, especially, The Last Tycoon.

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> >
> > By the way I've never seen it. Was it "Son of
> > Ali Baba" or "Black
> > Shield of Falworth"? I bet his accent was not as
> > heavy as jokers have
> > claimed for decades. The legend becomes fact (like
> > the non-existent
> > line "Play it again, Sam").
> >
> It was from "The Prince Who Was a Thief." And yes his
> accent wasn't as heavy as the jokers would have it.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
12239


From: Damien Bona
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:55pm
Subject: Re:(was contemporary language in old...
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
> I completely agree. I just thought Rush was pathetic, and when an
> actor's pereformance doesn't convince you, you see the wires.
> Besides, the caressing-the-syllables mannerism had already turned
>to ashes in the mouth of the guy who devised it by the time he made
>Red Dragon, so imitating it was a really bad idea!

I think Rush is always pathetic. He's for me, Bill, what Malkovich
is for you. By the same token, whenever I see an Anthony Hopkins
movie coming I also run the other way, but at least he does have his
fascinating performance in Nixon on his resume. These two guys could
do a reality TV show, "Battle Of The Mannered Stars."

-- Damien
12240


From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:01pm
Subject: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
> > If the director is great, I think the later one is almost always
> > going to be better than the earlier one,
> > though I can't think of other examples at the moment.

Two others might be STORY OF FLOATING WEEDS/FLOATING WEEDS (doubtless some controversy about that one) and JUDGE PRIEST/THE SUN SHINES BRIGHT (though the latter is perhaps more properly termed a "reworking"?).

Other trans-auteurial pairs: The two M's and (Renoir/Lang again) LA BETE HUMAINE/HUMAN DESIRE...

Weren't Tag Gallagher's thoughts about the Dunne/Boyer and Kerr/Grant dynamics at http://www.latrobe.edu.au/screeningthepast/firstrelease/fr1201/tgfr13a.htm
("...In An Affair to Remember, not surprisingly, McCarey gives most of Irene Dunne's qualities to Cary Grant, and gives Charles Boyer's figurine charm and fragility to Deborah Kerr...") discussed here at one point?
12241


From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:06pm
Subject: Re: Bunuel's book (and blindness)
 
> > When I first read the post about 'I hate blind people,' I
> immediately
> > associated it with the fact that cinema is a visual medium in which
> > blind people cannot participate.

And as Griffith was supposed to have said, "The task I'm trying to achieve above all is to make you see."
12242


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:14pm
Subject: Re: Non-existent lines (was contemporary language in old...)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> >>The legend becomes fact (like
> >>the non-existent
> >>line "Play it again, Sam").
>
> Speaking of non-existent lines: does anyone have any information on
the
> origin of "Judy, Judy, Judy"? I've often heard that Cary Grant
never
> said any such thing, but I wonder if the Judy in question isn't
Rita
> Hayworth's character in ONLY ANGELS HAVE WINGS.
>

I'm pretty sure it's not in OAHW. I watched it again recently.
It's on TCM on July 24...
>
>
>
12243


From: Damien Bona
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:15pm
Subject: Self Re-makes (was An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"
wrote:

> Two others might be STORY OF FLOATING WEEDS/FLOATING WEEDS
(doubtless some controversy about that one)

Also, Ozu's charming I Was Born But . . . and the transcendent
Ohayou.
12244


From: Damien Bona
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:19pm
Subject: Re: Non-existent lines (was contemporary language in old...)
 
For an overview on "Judy, Judy, Judy" check out
http://www.carygrant.net/articles/judy.htm



--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > >>The legend becomes fact (like
> > >>the non-existent
> > >>line "Play it again, Sam").
> >
> > Speaking of non-existent lines: does anyone have any information
on
> the
> > origin of "Judy, Judy, Judy"? I've often heard that Cary Grant
> never
> > said any such thing, but I wonder if the Judy in question isn't
> Rita
> > Hayworth's character in ONLY ANGELS HAVE WINGS.
> >
>
> I'm pretty sure it's not in OAHW. I watched it again recently.
> It's on TCM on July 24...
> >
> >
> >
12245


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:33pm
Subject: Re: Re: Non-existent lines (was contemporary language in old...)
 
> For an overview on "Judy, Judy, Judy" check out
> http://www.carygrant.net/articles/judy.htm

Interesting that the origin of the phrase is so difficult to trace, when
the phrase became so popular.

>> I'm pretty sure it's not in OAHW. I watched it again recently.

Grant definitely doesn't say "Judy, Judy, Judy" in the movie - I was
just wondering whether the movie wasn't the basis for some
impersonator's riff. Probably not. - Dan
12246


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:38pm
Subject: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"

> Other trans-auteurial pairs: The two M's and (Renoir/Lang again)
LA BETE HUMAINE/HUMAN DESIRE...

Including examples named, a nice run-down of auteurs remaking their
own, or other auteurs':

FLOATING WEEDS and THE STORY OF FLOATING WEEDS - Ozu
LOVE AFFAIR and AN AFFAIR TO REMEMBER - McCarey
M & M - Lang and Losey
LE BETE HUMAINE and HUMAN DESIRE - Renoir/Lang
LA CHIENNE and SCARLET STREET -
LILIOM - under Curtiz, Borzage, and Lang...Henry King with CAROUSEL?
THE LOWER DEPTHS - Renoir and Kurosawa
THE INDIAN TOMB/THE TIGER OF ESCHNAPUR - Lang and...the film that he
was originally to direct in the early 1920s
ONE SUNDAY AFTERNOON and THE STRAWBERRY BLONDE - Walsh
THE MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH x2 - Hitchcock
MAGNIFICENT OBSESSION/IMITATION OF LIFE - Stahl and Sirk
THUNDERBOLT/UNDERWORLD (but not really) - Sternberg
multiple versions of BALLAD OF NARAYAMA and 47 RONIN
maybe SUNRISE/AN AMERICAN ROMANCE/A PLACE IN THE SUN
(Murnau/Sternberg/Stevens)
RIO BRAVO morphs into EL DORADO, then RIO LOBO - Hawks

maybe the Joan of Arc tale, under Bresson, Preminger, Dreyer?

-Jaime
12247


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:43pm
Subject: non-existent lines
 
What is the source of Jerry Lewis' oft-attributed "LAAAADYYYY!!"

Having watched a bunch of movies and old Colgate Comedy Hour
episodes, the only recurring inter-filmic phrase I can recall
is, "Aw Dean, I tot we wah pals!" or some variation thereof.

-Jaime
12248


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:52pm
Subject: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:

>
> My first piece of film criticism was about One Sunday Afternoon. It
> appeared in a little mimeographed magazine in NY called The
Thousand
> Eyes. OSA is to Strawberry Blonde more or less as the Wilder-
Diamond
> Front Page is to His Girl Friday: it totally "de-constructs"
Walsh's
> own original, and his whole oeuvre. Very grim. Walsh spent much of
> the postwar period remaking his prewar masterpieces, and I believe
> OSA was the first example of that. It set the tone for what was to
> come.

When was your maiden piece published, Bill? Thousand Eyes was not
mimeographed, neither was it really small (24 pages). By sheer
coincidence I happen to have here on my desk a copy of the mag. dated
November 1976 (Vol.2 no.3. It was subtitled "the magazine of
repertory cinema" and included the October-November programs of the
Carnegie Hall Cinema and the Bleeker. In the course of one week you
could see at the Carnegie "LA MAMAN ET LA PUTAIN", "L"AMOUR FOU",
double bills of "LUCKY LUCIANO" and "THE MATTEI AFFAIR", two great
late Bunuels ("BOURGEOISIE" and "LIBERTY"), "THE GANG'S ALL HERE,
NIGHT OF THE IGUANA, Bondarchuk's WAR AND PEACE... At the
Bleeker "OUT ONE/SPECTRE", INDIA SONG double-billed with the rare
Tachella film "VOYAGE EN GRANDE TARTARIE", Dreyer's JOAN OF ARC and
ORDET, a double bill of HIS GIRL FRIDAY and ONLY ANGELS...

Those were the days indeed!

The magazine cost 50 cents! It had an interview with Preminger about
LAURA (and a LAURA poster on the cover) interviews with Wenders and
Rosi, and even an article by Amengual on Rosi, translated from
POSITIF.

JPC
12249


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:00pm
Subject: Re: Non-existent lines (was contemporary language in old...)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > For an overview on "Judy, Judy, Judy" check out
> > http://www.carygrant.net/articles/judy.htm
>
> Interesting that the origin of the phrase is so difficult to trace,
when
> the phrase became so popular.
>
> >> I'm pretty sure it's not in OAHW. I watched it again
recently.
>
> Grant definitely doesn't say "Judy, Judy, Judy" in the movie - I
was
> just wondering whether the movie wasn't the basis for some
> impersonator's riff. Probably not. - Dan

Well, the case is closed. He never said it, at least not in any
movie.

The other most notorious non-existent line is "Come with me to the
casbah".
JPC
12250


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:08pm
Subject: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jaime N. Christley"
wrote:

>
> And not the same director, but Stahl vs. Sirk's IMITATION OF LIFE
> and MAGNIFICENT OBSESSION?
>
> -Jaime

I must be the only one in the auteurist world who prefers the Stahl.
JPC
12251


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
>>And not the same director, but Stahl vs. Sirk's IMITATION OF LIFE
>>and MAGNIFICENT OBSESSION?
>>
> I must be the only one in the auteurist world who prefers the Stahl.

No, I too prefer the Stahl in both cases. Still waiting for my big
breakthrough on Sirk's IMITATION. - Dan
12252


From: George Robinson
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:14pm
Subject: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
I was the managing editor of 1000 Eyes for six months before it died in
1977.

In fact, it did begin as a mimeographed 8x10, saddle-stapled, put out by
Roger McNiven (of blessed memory) and Howard Mandelbaum. I, too, had one of
my first pieces published in it -- this is way back in 72 or 73 -- in an
issue on Nick Ray. It was an encomium to the underrated "Hot Blood."

By the time you saw it, JP, it had expanded into a formidable, if
money-losing, guide to rep programming in New York. Of course, back then
there was a lot more rep programming to write about.

Combined with the news that my favorite Columbia area bar is closing
Thursday, this particular thread is making me feel downright weepy.

g

Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan


----- Original Message -----
From: "jpcoursodon"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 2:52 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to
Remember vs. Love Affair)


> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
> wrote:
>
> >
> > My first piece of film criticism was about One Sunday Afternoon. It
> > appeared in a little mimeographed magazine in NY called The
> Thousand
> > Eyes. OSA is to Strawberry Blonde more or less as the Wilder-
> Diamond
> > Front Page is to His Girl Friday: it totally "de-constructs"
> Walsh's
> > own original, and his whole oeuvre. Very grim. Walsh spent much of
> > the postwar period remaking his prewar masterpieces, and I believe
> > OSA was the first example of that. It set the tone for what was to
> > come.
>
> When was your maiden piece published, Bill? Thousand Eyes was not
> mimeographed, neither was it really small (24 pages). By sheer
> coincidence I happen to have here on my desk a copy of the mag. dated
> November 1976 (Vol.2 no.3. It was subtitled "the magazine of
> repertory cinema" and included the October-November programs of the
> Carnegie Hall Cinema and the Bleeker. In the course of one week you
> could see at the Carnegie "LA MAMAN ET LA PUTAIN", "L"AMOUR FOU",
> double bills of "LUCKY LUCIANO" and "THE MATTEI AFFAIR", two great
> late Bunuels ("BOURGEOISIE" and "LIBERTY"), "THE GANG'S ALL HERE,
> NIGHT OF THE IGUANA, Bondarchuk's WAR AND PEACE... At the
> Bleeker "OUT ONE/SPECTRE", INDIA SONG double-billed with the rare
> Tachella film "VOYAGE EN GRANDE TARTARIE", Dreyer's JOAN OF ARC and
> ORDET, a double bill of HIS GIRL FRIDAY and ONLY ANGELS...
>
> Those were the days indeed!
>
> The magazine cost 50 cents! It had an interview with Preminger about
> LAURA (and a LAURA poster on the cover) interviews with Wenders and
> Rosi, and even an article by Amengual on Rosi, translated from
> POSITIF.
>
> JPC
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
12253


From: George Robinson
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:16pm
Subject: Re: Self Re-makes (was An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
Yes, good catch Mr. B.
g

Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan


----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Bona"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 2:15 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Self Re-makes (was An Affair to Remember vs. Love
Affair)


> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"
> wrote:
>
> > Two others might be STORY OF FLOATING WEEDS/FLOATING WEEDS
> (doubtless some controversy about that one)
>
> Also, Ozu's charming I Was Born But . . . and the transcendent
> Ohayou.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
12254


From: George Robinson
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:24pm
Subject: Re: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
Oh gosh yes, how could I have forgotten Colorado Territory?
One of the best things about this remake is that Walsh corrects what, for
me, is an error, letting Marie live at the end of High Sierra. It's just not
consistent with the logic of the film. (Not to mention that Lupino at her
most lachrymose is a bit hard to take; I like her better when she's dishing
it out.) The ending of Colorado Territory follows through on the inexorably
apocalyptic tone of the story quite brilliantly.
g

Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan


----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Camper"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [a_film_by] Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair


>
> jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> > Yes, THAT SONG! But alas there is also the ethnically
> >
> >
> >balanced bunch of atrocious kids singing that awful other song
> >(typical McCarey to be sure but still hard to sit through).....
> >
>
> Well, I'm sure in a bad film I'd really hate those kids singing; I
> certainly don't need to buy the recording. But I love this scene in "An
> Affair to Remember," stupid cuts to face close-ups and all. McCarey's
> vision has a directness and sincerity that reminds me of a key scene in
> Stahl, the "other" woman looking at the picture of her lover with a
> transcendent, anti-Sirkian effect. I see "through" the kids to something
> else. The pseudo-mysticism of this statement will doubtless prove
> obnoxious to some, but I think it's a key to "An Affair to Remember,"
> which I like hugely more than "Love Affair," which is also great.
>
> Once again the mystery of an auteurist classic is that something that is
> stupid on its face becomes great. I mean, there's no defense for the
> "nympho" scene in "Shock Corridor" except in Fullerian terms, right?
>
> And as long as we're on the subject of musicals, I think "A Song is
> Born" is even greater than "Ball of Fire." The professors are humiliated
> more; it looks forward to "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes" and "Man's Favorite
> Sport?" actually. And the space of their main room, with its clutter, is
> I think quite wonderfully Hawksian.
>
> And some think I don't like musicals!
>
> I haven't seen "One Sunday Afternoon." "Strawberry Blonde" is certainly
> tremendous, with wonderful Walshian rhythm. Another pair of films in
> which Walsh remade his own: "High Sierra" and "Colorado Territory." The
> latter is even better than the former. If the director is great, I think
> the later one is almost always going to be better than the earlier one,
> though I can't think of other examples at the moment.
>
> - Fred Camper
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
12255


From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:31pm
Subject: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon" wrote:
>
> When was your maiden piece published, Bill? Thousand Eyes was not
> mimeographed, neither was it really small (24 pages). By sheer
> coincidence I happen to have here on my desk a copy of the mag. dated
> November 1976 (Vol.2 no.3.

By sheer non-coincidence I have just dug out two issues, Walsh and Vidor/Minnelli, from 1974 -- before the newsprint version -- when the editors were still Howard and Roger and, if it wasn't mimeographed, it was photo-offset from typed copy. The earlier of these, possibly the first issue, is a 12-page magazine and leads off with John Belton's "Cinemarginalia" column on the two versions of RED RIVER, which used to be my authoritative source on this subject.

Now that I have it before me -- Belton's piece ends, "Still, the existence of the longer version raises a lot of questions. Did Hawks shoot the 'extra' footage that appears in the 'book' version? If not, who did? For what purpose was the longer version made? If any readers have information that may shed light on these problems, I would greatly appreciate hearing from them." I haven't kept up and don't know if these questions have ever been answered!
12256


From: George Robinson
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: Multiple versins of Red River
 
Ira Hozinsky, who occasionally lurks on this list -- Ira are you there? --
will know for sure, but I seem to recall an article on the variant Red
Rivers in Sight and Sound a couple three years ago which might clear up the
confusion once and for all.
g

Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan


----- Original Message -----
From: "jess_l_amortell"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 3:31 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to
Remember vs. Love Affair)


> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon" wrote:
> >
> > When was your maiden piece published, Bill? Thousand Eyes was not
> > mimeographed, neither was it really small (24 pages). By sheer
> > coincidence I happen to have here on my desk a copy of the mag. dated
> > November 1976 (Vol.2 no.3.
>
> By sheer non-coincidence I have just dug out two issues, Walsh and
Vidor/Minnelli, from 1974 -- before the newsprint version -- when the
editors were still Howard and Roger and, if it wasn't mimeographed, it was
photo-offset from typed copy. The earlier of these, possibly the first
issue, is a 12-page magazine and leads off with John Belton's
"Cinemarginalia" column on the two versions of RED RIVER, which used to be
my authoritative source on this subject.
>
> Now that I have it before me -- Belton's piece ends, "Still, the existence
of the longer version raises a lot of questions. Did Hawks shoot the
'extra' footage that appears in the 'book' version? If not, who did? For
what purpose was the longer version made? If any readers have information
that may shed light on these problems, I would greatly appreciate hearing
from them." I haven't kept up and don't know if these questions have ever
been answered!
>
12257


From: Fred Camper
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: Non-existent lines (was contemporary language in old...)
 
jpcoursodon wrote:

> ... The other most notorious non-existent line is "Come with me to the
>casbah". ...
>JPC
>
>
>
Wait a minute! Chuck Jones's Pepe LePew is not non existent, but a
charcter with as much inner depth and complexisty as any in film
history. Scottie and Madeline in "Vertigo" have got nothing on M. LePew!
More seriously, if your point is that it doesn't exist in a "feature,"
fine, though I wouldn't really know for sure, but Pepe says it in more
than one work of cinema art.

- Fred Camper
12258


From: George Robinson
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:56pm
Subject: Re: Re: Non-existent lines (was contemporary language in old...)
 
Which makes "judy, judy, judy" legit, too, although I couldn't tell you
which Warner Bros. cartoon it turns up in -- probably several.
g

Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan


----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Camper"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [a_film_by] Re: Non-existent lines (was contemporary language
in old...)


>
>
> jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> > ... The other most notorious non-existent line is "Come with me to the
> >casbah". ...
> >JPC
> >
> >
> >
> Wait a minute! Chuck Jones's Pepe LePew is not non existent, but a
> charcter with as much inner depth and complexisty as any in film
> history. Scottie and Madeline in "Vertigo" have got nothing on M. LePew!
> More seriously, if your point is that it doesn't exist in a "feature,"
> fine, though I wouldn't really know for sure, but Pepe says it in more
> than one work of cinema art.
>
> - Fred Camper
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
12259


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:57pm
Subject: Red River (Was: 1000 Eyes)
 
> Now that I have it before me -- Belton's piece ends, "Still, the
> existence of the longer version raises a lot of questions. Did Hawks
> shoot the 'extra' footage that appears in the 'book' version? If
> not, who did? For what purpose was the longer version made? If any
> readers have information that may shed light on these problems, I
> would greatly appreciate hearing from them." I haven't kept up and
> don't know if these questions have ever been answered!

Todd McCarthy went into this issue in his Hawks biography. Certainly
the diary version is an earlier version; the voiceover version was
trimmed in several places (notably in the final showdown), and the music
was changed. It's not a case of someone coming in and shooting
additional footage after Hawks did his cut.

Hawks claimed that the diary version was never supposed to see release.
Hawks was in charge of the production, so it seems odd that a version he
disapproved of should have made it to theaters. But McCarthy doesn't
think it impossible, given Hawks' working methods and the particular
difficulties of this time in Hawks' life. Some critics prefer one
version, some another. - Dan
12260


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:57pm
Subject: auteur remake auteur
 
Almost forgot about THE THING - one of John Carpenter's salutes to
his acknowledged master, Howard Hawks, a very different take on the
story, and very great in and of itself.

And then, Howard Hawks' SCARFACE is given a thorough (and divisive)
makeover by Brian DePalma.

-Jaime
12261


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:09pm
Subject: movie stars in cartoons (was: non-existent)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:
>
> Which makes "judy, judy, judy" legit, too, although I couldn't
tell you
> which Warner Bros. cartoon it turns up in -- probably several.

Who was the animator who did those classic 'toons that featured
dozens of caricatures of big stars? Not just one or two at a time,
like when Peter Lorre or Edward G. Robinson show up as gangsters,
and not just when Bugs does impressions, but...they're all at a
restaurant or something. Anyone?

Frank Tashlin directed SWOONER CROONER, which spoofed Bing Crosby
and Frank Sinatra as competing roosters who strive to arouse Porky's
hens in order to increase egg production. (In the end, even Porky
is turned on!) Apparently, Crosby complained to Tashlin some years
later about it, saying he hated it, without realizing that Tashlin
created the Crosby caricature and directed the short himself.

New DVDs of great classics like TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT often feature
Warner Bros. cartoons - for that film, there's one called BACALL TO
ARMS that spoofs the Hawks film as well as the audience's lust for
Lauren Bacall.

-Jaime
12262


From: George Robinson
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:11pm
Subject: Re: movie stars in cartoons (was: non-existent)
 
I'm not sure, but I think Tex Avery was behind some of those.

g

Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jaime N. Christley"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:09 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] movie stars in cartoons (was: non-existent)


> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
> wrote:
> >
> > Which makes "judy, judy, judy" legit, too, although I couldn't
> tell you
> > which Warner Bros. cartoon it turns up in -- probably several.
>
> Who was the animator who did those classic 'toons that featured
> dozens of caricatures of big stars? Not just one or two at a time,
> like when Peter Lorre or Edward G. Robinson show up as gangsters,
> and not just when Bugs does impressions, but...they're all at a
> restaurant or something. Anyone?
>
> Frank Tashlin directed SWOONER CROONER, which spoofed Bing Crosby
> and Frank Sinatra as competing roosters who strive to arouse Porky's
> hens in order to increase egg production. (In the end, even Porky
> is turned on!) Apparently, Crosby complained to Tashlin some years
> later about it, saying he hated it, without realizing that Tashlin
> created the Crosby caricature and directed the short himself.
>
> New DVDs of great classics like TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT often feature
> Warner Bros. cartoons - for that film, there's one called BACALL TO
> ARMS that spoofs the Hawks film as well as the audience's lust for
> Lauren Bacall.
>
> -Jaime
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
12263


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:19pm
Subject: Re: movie stars in cartoons (was: non-existent)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:
> I'm not sure, but I think Tex Avery was behind some of those.

Could be - although Robert Clampett is credited for BACALL TO ARMS -
could Avery have animated the TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT send-up?

-Jaime
12264


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:34pm
Subject: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:
> I was the managing editor of 1000 Eyes for six months before it
died in
> 1977.
>
> In fact, it did begin as a mimeographed 8x10, saddle-stapled, put
out by
> Roger McNiven (of blessed memory) and Howard Mandelbaum. I, too,
had one of
> my first pieces published in it -- this is way back in 72 or 73 --
in an
> issue on Nick Ray. It was an encomium to the underrated "Hot Blood."
>
> By the time you saw it, JP, it had expanded into a formidable, if
> money-losing, guide to rep programming in New York. Of course, back
then
> there was a lot more rep programming to write about.



I knew Roger and Howard well and often attended their screenings
in their apartment, so I must have been familiar with the early 1000
Eyes -- I guess I had forgotten. By 1976 they were programming the
Carnegie Hall, right? I remember when they tried to organize a very
hush hush private screening of "Vertigo" and it was quashed by
Hitchcock's lawyers.
JPC

>
> Combined with the news that my favorite Columbia area bar is closing
> Thursday, this particular thread is making me feel downright weepy.

Is it the West End that's closing? Gentrification marches on! I
lived on Claremont Avenue at 116th St for 22 years... So many
memories. Take out your handkerchiefs...
> JP
>
> Our talk of justice is empty until the
> largest battleship has foundered on the
> forehead of a drowned man.
> --Paul Celan
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jpcoursodon"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 2:52 PM
> Subject: [a_film_by] 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An
Affair to
> Remember vs. Love Affair)
>
>
> > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > My first piece of film criticism was about One Sunday
Afternoon. It
> > > appeared in a little mimeographed magazine in NY called The
> > Thousand
> > > Eyes. OSA is to Strawberry Blonde more or less as the Wilder-
> > Diamond
> > > Front Page is to His Girl Friday: it totally "de-constructs"
> > Walsh's
> > > own original, and his whole oeuvre. Very grim. Walsh spent much
of
> > > the postwar period remaking his prewar masterpieces, and I
believe
> > > OSA was the first example of that. It set the tone for what was
to
> > > come.
> >
> > When was your maiden piece published, Bill? Thousand Eyes was
not
> > mimeographed, neither was it really small (24 pages). By sheer
> > coincidence I happen to have here on my desk a copy of the mag.
dated
> > November 1976 (Vol.2 no.3. It was subtitled "the magazine of
> > repertory cinema" and included the October-November programs of
the
> > Carnegie Hall Cinema and the Bleeker. In the course of one week
you
> > could see at the Carnegie "LA MAMAN ET LA PUTAIN", "L"AMOUR FOU",
> > double bills of "LUCKY LUCIANO" and "THE MATTEI AFFAIR", two great
> > late Bunuels ("BOURGEOISIE" and "LIBERTY"), "THE GANG'S ALL HERE,
> > NIGHT OF THE IGUANA, Bondarchuk's WAR AND PEACE... At the
> > Bleeker "OUT ONE/SPECTRE", INDIA SONG double-billed with the rare
> > Tachella film "VOYAGE EN GRANDE TARTARIE", Dreyer's JOAN OF ARC
and
> > ORDET, a double bill of HIS GIRL FRIDAY and ONLY ANGELS...
> >
> > Those were the days indeed!
> >
> > The magazine cost 50 cents! It had an interview with Preminger
about
> > LAURA (and a LAURA poster on the cover) interviews with Wenders
and
> > Rosi, and even an article by Amengual on Rosi, translated from
> > POSITIF.
> >
> > JPC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
12265


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:39pm
Subject: Re: Non-existent lines (was contemporary language in old...)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Fred Camper wrote:
>
>
> jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> > ... The other most notorious non-existent line is "Come with me
to the
> >casbah". ...
> >JPC
> >
> >
> >
> Wait a minute! Chuck Jones's Pepe LePew is not non existent, but a
> charcter with as much inner depth and complexisty as any in film
> history. Scottie and Madeline in "Vertigo" have got nothing on M.
LePew!
> More seriously, if your point is that it doesn't exist in
a "feature,"
> fine, though I wouldn't really know for sure, but Pepe says it in
more
> than one work of cinema art.
>
> - Fred Camper

Exactly my point. Legend became fact and Pepe kept it alive. JP
12266


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:41pm
Subject: Re: Non-existent lines (was contemporary language in old...)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:
>
> Which makes "judy, judy, judy" legit, too, although I couldn't tell
you
> which Warner Bros. cartoon it turns up in -- probably several.
> g
>
> Our talk of justice is empty until the
> largest battleship has foundered on the
> forehead of a drowned man.
> --Paul Celan
> Never heard it in any WB cartoon, and I have seen most of them. JPC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred Camper"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 3:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [a_film_by] Re: Non-existent lines (was contemporary
language
> in old...)
>
>
> >
> >
> > jpcoursodon wrote:
> >
> > > ... The other most notorious non-existent line is "Come with me
to the
> > >casbah". ...
> > >JPC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Wait a minute! Chuck Jones's Pepe LePew is not non existent, but a
> > charcter with as much inner depth and complexisty as any in film
> > history. Scottie and Madeline in "Vertigo" have got nothing on M.
LePew!
> > More seriously, if your point is that it doesn't exist in
a "feature,"
> > fine, though I wouldn't really know for sure, but Pepe says it in
more
> > than one work of cinema art.
> >
> > - Fred Camper
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
12267


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:03pm
Subject: Song/Vanilla
 
Does anybody share Fred's opinion that "A SONG IS BORN" is "even
greater" than "BALL OF FIRE"? Or even as good? I always found the
movie atrocious.

On a different subject and out of the blue: can anyone tell me in
what film of the thirties the last line is: "I'll take vanilla"? I've
been trying to remember for almost decades. I think Kay Francis was
in it. I remember seeing the film at the New School, one of Bill
Everson's famous screenings. (that's where I first saw LOVE AFFAIR
too -- at the time it was very hard to see. I had seen the remake at
least 20 years before.)
JPC
12268


From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:08pm
Subject: Re: movie stars in cartoons (was: non-existent)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jaime N. Christley"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
> wrote:
> >
> > Which makes "judy, judy, judy" legit, too, although I couldn't
> tell you
> > which Warner Bros. cartoon it turns up in -- probably several.
>
> Who was the animator who did those classic 'toons that featured
> dozens of caricatures of big stars? Not just one or two at a time,
> like when Peter Lorre or Edward G. Robinson show up as gangsters,
> and not just when Bugs does impressions, but...they're all at a
> restaurant or something. Anyone?
>


There was "Friz Freling's "Slick Hare." Bogart comes to the Mocrumbo
(the Macambo) with Bacall and tells waiter Elmer Fudd that "Baby wants
rabbit," and the nearest rabbit is Bugs Bunny. At the restaurant are
Joan Crawford, Sydney Greenstreet, the Marx Brothers, Ray Milland and
Howard da Silva (as their "Lost Weekend" characters), Carmen Miranda,
Gregory Peck (as his "Spellbound" character), Frank Sinatra (so skinny
he slips through a straw), and Leopold Stokowski.

Tex Avery's "Hollywood Steps Out" shows Ciro's and another assortment
of stars. IMDb lists J. Edgar Hoover, Leopold Stowkowski, Sally Rand,
Gable, Garbo, Grant, Ned Sparks, Ann Sheridan, Edward G. Robinson,
Bing Crosby, Johnny Weissmuller, Jimmy Stewart, The Three Stooges,
Oliver Hardy, Mickey Rooney, Peter Lorre, Henry Fonda, Jerry Colonna,
and the Marx Brothers.

Paul
12269


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:10pm
Subject: Re: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- jpcoursodon wrote:

>
> I knew Roger and Howard well and often attended
> their screenings
> in their apartment, so I must have been familiar
> with the early 1000
> Eyes -- I guess I had forgotten.

You did? Then our paths have crossed before, J-P!
I fondly recall a Cukor double-feature of "Rockabye"
and "Girls About Town."





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
12270


From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:19pm
Subject: THE BEGINNING AND THE END (Arturo Ripstein)
 
I saw Arturo Ripstein's THE BEGINNING AND THE END yesterday as part
of Film Forum's Mexican cinema series and although the sign posted at
the box office listed the running time as 188 minutes the print was
the shortened 170 minute version. Has anyone in the group seen the
longer version of this film and is able to tell me what the
differences are? As every shot in the film is a single take of
various durations (some of them quite long) it looked at times as
though the 18 minutes may have disappeared through some of these
sequences being abbreviated rather than doing away with entire
scenes.

And is there any interesting writing on Ripstein anywhere, outside of
interviews with him?
12271


From: Richard Modiano
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:52pm
Subject: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jaime N. Christley"

"And then, Howard Hawks' SCARFACE is given a thorough (and divisive)
makeover by Brian DePalma."

A few more:

BILLY THE KID (Vidor 1930) and BILLY THE KID (Miller 1941)
THE DAWN PATROL (Hawks 1930) and THE DAWN PATROL (Goulding 1938)
A BILL OF DIVORCEMENT (Cukor 1932)and A BILL OF DIVORCEMENT (Farrow
1940)
FRONTIER MARSHALL (Dwan 1939) and MY DARLING CLEMTINE (Ford 1946)
RED DUST (Fleming 1932) and MOGAMBO (Ford 1953)
MANJI (Masumura 1965) and MANJI (Yokoyama 1983)

Richard
12272


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:53pm
Subject: Re: THE BEGINNING AND THE END (Arturo Ripstein)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "joe_mcelhaney"
wrote:
.
>
> And is there any interesting writing on Ripstein anywhere, outside
of
> interviews with him?

Check out Paulo Antonio Paranagua's article: "Entre insertion
obligee et renouvellement," in POSITIF, April 1994. The same issue
has a bio-filmographie and an interview. Most of Ripstein's films
have also been reviewed in POSITIF. I don't know about CAHIERS.
JPC
12273


From: samfilms2003
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:25pm
Subject: Re: Murnau (Was: filmmakers with greater continuity with silent film)
 
Oh I wasn't suggesting at all that you had expressed any doubt about
anything; I was merely saying that, I have little doubt that noir would
have been among what he might have done (seeing what his contemporaries -
Lang, Ulmer etc did....

-sam
12274


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
--- Richard Modiano wrote:
> A few more:
>
> BILLY THE KID (Vidor 1930) and BILLY THE KID (Miller
> 1941)
> THE DAWN PATROL (Hawks 1930) and THE DAWN PATROL
> (Goulding 1938)
> A BILL OF DIVORCEMENT (Cukor 1932)and A BILL OF
> DIVORCEMENT (Farrow
> 1940)
> FRONTIER MARSHALL (Dwan 1939) and MY DARLING
> CLEMTINE (Ford 1946)
> RED DUST (Fleming 1932) and MOGAMBO (Ford 1953)
> MANJI (Masumura 1965) and MANJI (Yokoyama 1983)

And then there's Losey's version of "M" -- which I've
never seen, and long to.

Losey's early American period is quite rich,
particularly "The Big Night" which I consider to be a
near-masterpiece. It would make a perfect double
feature with Polonsky's "Force of Evil."
>





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12275


From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:59pm
Subject: Re: gratitude for A. Martin
 
Yes, in the immortal words of Derek Zoolander, Rouge is really, really ... really ...
(pause) good.

A question for Adrian (and his crew): what language was being spoken in the dialogue
between Straub, Rocha, and the others? French, I imagine, but wasn't sure.

Rocha never spoke very good French but he is surprisingly coherent (and smart) here,
though there is some post-68 twaddle that Straub takes and runs with.

Gabe


--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rector" wrote:
> Deference! Deference to the third issue of Rouge, Adrian Martin and
> his band. The line you're drawing is ideal to me.
> I clasp your hand in thanks,
> andy
12276


From: Damien Bona
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:24pm
Subject: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:

> Is it the West End that's closing? Gentrification marches on! I
> lived on Claremont Avenue at 116th St for 22 years... So many
> memories. Take out your handkerchiefs...
> > JP


It's my (and George's) old haunt Cannon's at 108th and Broadway
that's closing. You can read all about it at
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/11/nyregion/11cann.html

The West End is so different from the way it used to be that it's as
if it had closed and then re-opened.
12277


From:
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:35pm
Subject: Re: Self Re-makes (was An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
How about:
Lady for a Day / Pocketful of Miracles (Capra)
Objective Burma / Distant Drums (Walsh)
The Ten Commandments (De Mille - both versions)
The Marriage Circle (Lubitsch) - One Hour With You (Lubitsch & Cukor)
Ninotchka (Lubitsch) - Silk Stockings (Mamoulian)
The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (Ingram / Minnelli)
Scaramouche (Ingram / Sidney)
The Mark of Zorro (Niblo / Mamoulian)
Blood and Sand (Niblo / Mamoulian)
Diary of a Chambermaid (Renoir / Bunuel)
The Oxbow Incident (Wellman / Oswald)
The Barker (George Fitzmaurice) / both versions of Floating Weeds (Ozu)
The Strret With No Name (Keighley) / House of Bamboo (Fuller)
Two in the Dark (Ben Stoloff) / Two O'Clock Courage (Anthony Mann)
The Fall of the Roman Empire (Mann) / Galdiator (Ridley Scott)
Stella Dallas (Henry King / King Vidor)
Ossessione (Visconti) / The Postman Always Rings Twice (Garnett)

The multiple versions of War and Peace, The Merry Widow, The Last of the
Mohicans, Shakespeare plays, Tennessee Williams, Anna and the King of Siam, etc,
are probably less re-makes than fresh adaptations.

Mike Grost
12278


From: Andy Rector
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:39pm
Subject: Re: gratitude for A. Martin
 
Gabe wrote: >>though there is some post-68 twaddle that Straub takes
and runs with.

What do you mean by this Gabe?

-andy
12279


From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 0:37am
Subject: Re: gratitude for A. Martin
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rector" wrote:
> Gabe wrote: >>though there is some post-68 twaddle that Straub takes
> and runs with.
>
> What do you mean by this Gabe?

For example Straub's comment about art-houses having very bad projection because
art-house distributors don't understand that film is a very material art (in response to
Rocha's statement that art-house audiences are very bourgeois)... Straub is at the
core of this conversation; he is the one who "sees" (as Daney once wrote about
Rossellini), or at least the most quotable of the bunch. Rocha is equally interesting,
but his ideological musings are colloquial compared to Straub, who has the
authoritative aura. ..Rocha is sometimes too insistent on dichotomizing socialist
cinema, commercial cinema, etc. He also says some things on the virtues of reading
(Das Kapital) though I doubt Rocha read any political texts.

Straub: For example John Ford's movies are profoundly political.

Oh yeah baby.

Gabe
12280


From: Richard Modiano
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 0:45am
Subject: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:

"And then there's Losey's version of "M" -- which I've
never seen, and long to.

"Losey's early American period is quite rich,
particularly 'The Big Night' which I consider to be a
near-masterpiece. It would make a perfect double
feature with Polonsky's 'Force of Evil.'"

Your hypothesis about the possible excellence of Losey's M is on the
mark (I actually saw it at one of LACMA matinees for senior citizens
a few years ago!) It's distinguished by great location work and
comes off as an interesting film noir-Louis De Rohemont psuedo-
documentary hybrid, and Losey and David Wayne as the murderer very
ingeniously suggest the nature of the crimes within the constraints
of the Production Code. Judged on its own merits I thought is was
pretty good. I hope you get to see it some day.

Richard
12281


From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:03am
Subject: Rocha
 
>though I doubt Rocha read any political texts.

I take this back. Maybe Rocha read Marx...

I will say this in a very primitive way:

Rocha is an artist. Straub and Godard too were able to look at Rocha's work and take
a lot from it, but they were more eloquent with their findings than Rocha could ever
articulate about the influences of his own work. That doesn't detract from his art, but
I think that Rocha never had to read Marx to apply Marxism in his beliefs.

Gabe
12282


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:04am
Subject: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein

> And then there's Losey's version of "M" -- which I've
> never seen, and long to.

> Losey's early American period is quite rich,
> particularly "The Big Night" which I consider to be a
> near-masterpiece. It would make a perfect double
> feature with Polonsky's "Force of Evil."

I was very lazy with the recent retrospective at Lincoln Center. But
from his American period I was very impressed by THE LAWLESS. I found
THE PROWLER admirable but was left neutral about it overall.

Losey's M is pretty great, actually, so I hope you do get a chance to
see it soon! I would love to do side-by-side comparison's with Lang's
masterpiece.

Of all that I've seen so far, TIME WITHOUT PITY is incomparable.

-Jaime
12283


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:10am
Subject: Re: Rocha
 
--- Gabe Klinger wrote:

> Rocha is an artist. Straub and Godard too were able
> to look at Rocha's work and take
> a lot from it, but they were more eloquent with
> their findings than Rocha could ever
> articulate about the influences of his own work.
> That doesn't detract from his art, but
> I think that Rocha never had to read Marx to apply
> Marxism in his beliefs.
>
Rocha's a strange figure. Never saw the one he made
with Pierre Clementi, but quite impressed with his
Leaud-starred "Der Leone Have Sept Cabecas." I don't
find his films have much to do with Marx.



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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12284


From:
Date: Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:16pm
Subject: TCM Alert: Mann & Walsh
 
Tomorrow, Tuesday,all times EDT

4:15 AM - 6 He Walked by Night (Anthony Mann)
6 AM - 7: 15 Regeneration (Raoul Walsh, 1915)

Two auteurist gems!

Also very good:

4:30 PM - 6: 30 The Roaring Twenties (Walsh)

This is followed by "The Enforcer" at 6: 30 PM, which is supposed to partly
directed by Walsh - unsigned. I think it is truly awful - beware!

Mike Grost
12285


From: joey lindsey
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:35am
Subject: Re: DC rental resources
 
Thanks to all who had suggestions, I have a lot of good films to catch
up on!
Between all these great video stores and the AFI's Bergman series, I'm
going to be busy (and poor!)

I went into the Cleveland Park Potomac Video (which is apparently
closing in Feb - I have a deadline to plunder their resources!)
and the guy got on the phone and *ordered* Chushingiru for me on
DVD...it's not even neccessarily at the top of my list, it's just what i
mentioned to him...good stuff.

joey lindsey
12286


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:35am
Subject: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
> wrote:
>
> > Is it the West End that's closing? Gentrification marches on!
I
> > lived on Claremont Avenue at 116th St for 22 years... So many
> > memories. Take out your handkerchiefs...
> > > JP
>
>
> It's my (and George's) old haunt Cannon's at 108th and Broadway
> that's closing. You can read all about it at
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/11/nyregion/11cann.html
>
> The West End is so different from the way it used to be that it's
as
> if it had closed and then re-opened.


That's exactly the impression I got when I went back to the old
neighborhood again a few years back. Actually the whole area had
changed completely. I remember Cannon, although I never actually went
there much at all. So that's going too. What about The Balcony? What
about the Edison Cinema? What about... Oh, never mind. The
handkerchief is all wet.
JPC
12287


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:43am
Subject: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> >
> > I knew Roger and Howard well and often attended
> > their screenings
> > in their apartment, so I must have been familiar
> > with the early 1000
> > Eyes -- I guess I had forgotten.
>
> You did? Then our paths have crossed before, J-P!
> I fondly recall a Cukor double-feature of "Rockabye"
> and "Girls About Town."
>
>
> We could have sung Porter duets and charmed auteurists off the
trees! (I know you know what I'm quoting, or perhaps misquoting).
I saw the two Cukors in those dim years but can't remember if
it was at Roger and Howard's or at MOMA.
> JPC
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
12288


From: Michael Worrall
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:22am
Subject: Jerry Lewis / Re: non-existent lines
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jaime N. Christley"
wrote:
> What is the source of Jerry Lewis' oft-attributed "LAAAADYYYY!!"
>
> Having watched a bunch of movies and old Colgate Comedy Hour
> episodes, the only recurring inter-filmic phrase I can recall
> is, "Aw Dean, I tot we wah pals!" or some variation thereof.
>
> -Jaime

There's a bit of "lady", but perhaps not "LAAADDDYY", in "Whose
Minding the Store". The word in question is said many times as Lewis
tries to help a woman try on a pair of shoes. (Though my favorite
gag is the traffic cop and all the items that come falling down on
him.)

Michael Worrall
12289


From: Michael Worrall
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:51am
Subject: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> And then there's Losey's version of "M" -- which I've
> never seen, and long to.
>

David, what is your opinion on Van Sant's "remake" of "Psycho".
Rosenbaum was very negative, and it kept me away.

As for other remakes there's:

Cat People (Tourner/Schrader)- I found that Schrader makes the
implicit explicit, and ruins it.

Narrow Margin (Fleischer/Hyams)
Village of the Damned (Rilla/Carpenter)

Michael Worrall
12290


From: George Robinson
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:11am
Subject: Re: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
Nope, Cannon's at 108th and B'way. The West End had changed considerably but
it's still there. The food's a lot better too. Under the old management I
got ptomaine there once.
g

Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan


----- Original Message -----
From: "jpcoursodon"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:34 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to
Remember vs. Love Affair)


> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
> wrote:
> > I was the managing editor of 1000 Eyes for six months before it
> died in
> > 1977.
> >
> > In fact, it did begin as a mimeographed 8x10, saddle-stapled, put
> out by
> > Roger McNiven (of blessed memory) and Howard Mandelbaum. I, too,
> had one of
> > my first pieces published in it -- this is way back in 72 or 73 --
> in an
> > issue on Nick Ray. It was an encomium to the underrated "Hot Blood."
> >
> > By the time you saw it, JP, it had expanded into a formidable, if
> > money-losing, guide to rep programming in New York. Of course, back
> then
> > there was a lot more rep programming to write about.
>
>
>
> I knew Roger and Howard well and often attended their screenings
> in their apartment, so I must have been familiar with the early 1000
> Eyes -- I guess I had forgotten. By 1976 they were programming the
> Carnegie Hall, right? I remember when they tried to organize a very
> hush hush private screening of "Vertigo" and it was quashed by
> Hitchcock's lawyers.
> JPC
>
> >
> > Combined with the news that my favorite Columbia area bar is closing
> > Thursday, this particular thread is making me feel downright weepy.
>
> Is it the West End that's closing? Gentrification marches on! I
> lived on Claremont Avenue at 116th St for 22 years... So many
> memories. Take out your handkerchiefs...
> > JP
> >
> > Our talk of justice is empty until the
> > largest battleship has foundered on the
> > forehead of a drowned man.
> > --Paul Celan
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jpcoursodon"
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 2:52 PM
> > Subject: [a_film_by] 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An
> Affair to
> > Remember vs. Love Affair)
> >
> >
> > > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > My first piece of film criticism was about One Sunday
> Afternoon. It
> > > > appeared in a little mimeographed magazine in NY called The
> > > Thousand
> > > > Eyes. OSA is to Strawberry Blonde more or less as the Wilder-
> > > Diamond
> > > > Front Page is to His Girl Friday: it totally "de-constructs"
> > > Walsh's
> > > > own original, and his whole oeuvre. Very grim. Walsh spent much
> of
> > > > the postwar period remaking his prewar masterpieces, and I
> believe
> > > > OSA was the first example of that. It set the tone for what was
> to
> > > > come.
> > >
> > > When was your maiden piece published, Bill? Thousand Eyes was
> not
> > > mimeographed, neither was it really small (24 pages). By sheer
> > > coincidence I happen to have here on my desk a copy of the mag.
> dated
> > > November 1976 (Vol.2 no.3. It was subtitled "the magazine of
> > > repertory cinema" and included the October-November programs of
> the
> > > Carnegie Hall Cinema and the Bleeker. In the course of one week
> you
> > > could see at the Carnegie "LA MAMAN ET LA PUTAIN", "L"AMOUR FOU",
> > > double bills of "LUCKY LUCIANO" and "THE MATTEI AFFAIR", two great
> > > late Bunuels ("BOURGEOISIE" and "LIBERTY"), "THE GANG'S ALL HERE,
> > > NIGHT OF THE IGUANA, Bondarchuk's WAR AND PEACE... At the
> > > Bleeker "OUT ONE/SPECTRE", INDIA SONG double-billed with the rare
> > > Tachella film "VOYAGE EN GRANDE TARTARIE", Dreyer's JOAN OF ARC
> and
> > > ORDET, a double bill of HIS GIRL FRIDAY and ONLY ANGELS...
> > >
> > > Those were the days indeed!
> > >
> > > The magazine cost 50 cents! It had an interview with Preminger
> about
> > > LAURA (and a LAURA poster on the cover) interviews with Wenders
> and
> > > Rosi, and even an article by Amengual on Rosi, translated from
> > > POSITIF.
> > >
> > > JPC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
12291


From: George Robinson
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:14am
Subject: Re: Re: Non-existent lines (was contemporary language in old...)
 
Perhaps my memory is playing me false. It frequently does.
g

Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan


----- Original Message -----
From: "jpcoursodon"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:41 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Non-existent lines (was contemporary language in
old...)


> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
> wrote:
> >
> > Which makes "judy, judy, judy" legit, too, although I couldn't tell
> you
> > which Warner Bros. cartoon it turns up in -- probably several.
> > g
> >
> > Our talk of justice is empty until the
> > largest battleship has foundered on the
> > forehead of a drowned man.
> > --Paul Celan
> > Never heard it in any WB cartoon, and I have seen most of them. JPC
 
12292


From: George Robinson
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:12am
Subject: Re: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
Surely you don't consider David Miller and John Farrow great auteurs?
g

Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ehrenstein"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [a_film_by] Re: auteur remake auteur


> --- Richard Modiano wrote:
> > A few more:
> >
> > BILLY THE KID (Vidor 1930) and BILLY THE KID (Miller
> > 1941)
> > THE DAWN PATROL (Hawks 1930) and THE DAWN PATROL
> > (Goulding 1938)
> > A BILL OF DIVORCEMENT (Cukor 1932)and A BILL OF
> > DIVORCEMENT (Farrow
> > 1940)
> > FRONTIER MARSHALL (Dwan 1939) and MY DARLING
> > CLEMTINE (Ford 1946)
> > RED DUST (Fleming 1932) and MOGAMBO (Ford 1953)
> > MANJI (Masumura 1965) and MANJI (Yokoyama 1983)
>
> And then there's Losey's version of "M" -- which I've
> never seen, and long to.
>
> Losey's early American period is quite rich,
> particularly "The Big Night" which I consider to be a
> near-masterpiece. It would make a perfect double
> feature with Polonsky's "Force of Evil."
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
12293


From: George Robinson
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:16am
Subject: Re: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
The Balcony is now a not unpleasant Italian restaurant. The Edison is now
the Metro, a first-run house that was duplexed about ten years ago. The
Olympia is gone, as is the Olympia Diner next door to the Balcony.
Hell, you'd barely recognize the old neighborhood.
g

Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan


----- Original Message -----
From: "jpcoursodon"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:35 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to
Remember vs. Love Affair)


> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
> wrote:
> > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Is it the West End that's closing? Gentrification marches on!
> I
> > > lived on Claremont Avenue at 116th St for 22 years... So many
> > > memories. Take out your handkerchiefs...
> > > > JP
> >
> >
> > It's my (and George's) old haunt Cannon's at 108th and Broadway
> > that's closing. You can read all about it at
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/11/nyregion/11cann.html
> >
> > The West End is so different from the way it used to be that it's
> as
> > if it had closed and then re-opened.
>
>
> That's exactly the impression I got when I went back to the old
> neighborhood again a few years back. Actually the whole area had
> changed completely. I remember Cannon, although I never actually went
> there much at all. So that's going too. What about The Balcony? What
> about the Edison Cinema? What about... Oh, never mind. The
> handkerchief is all wet.
> JPC
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
12294


From: George Robinson
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:18am
Subject: Re: Re: movie stars in cartoons (was: non-existent)
 
Oh yeah, great stuff.
I have to admit, though, that my favorite WB cartoon inside joke is the
gremlins in Russian Rhapsody who have the faces of the staff of the cartoon
unit.

g

Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Gallagher"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 5:08 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: movie stars in cartoons (was: non-existent)


> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jaime N. Christley"
> wrote:
> > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Which makes "judy, judy, judy" legit, too, although I couldn't
> > tell you
> > > which Warner Bros. cartoon it turns up in -- probably several.
> >
> > Who was the animator who did those classic 'toons that featured
> > dozens of caricatures of big stars? Not just one or two at a time,
> > like when Peter Lorre or Edward G. Robinson show up as gangsters,
> > and not just when Bugs does impressions, but...they're all at a
> > restaurant or something. Anyone?
> >
>
>
> There was "Friz Freling's "Slick Hare." Bogart comes to the Mocrumbo
> (the Macambo) with Bacall and tells waiter Elmer Fudd that "Baby wants
> rabbit," and the nearest rabbit is Bugs Bunny. At the restaurant are
> Joan Crawford, Sydney Greenstreet, the Marx Brothers, Ray Milland and
> Howard da Silva (as their "Lost Weekend" characters), Carmen Miranda,
> Gregory Peck (as his "Spellbound" character), Frank Sinatra (so skinny
> he slips through a straw), and Leopold Stokowski.
>
> Tex Avery's "Hollywood Steps Out" shows Ciro's and another assortment
> of stars. IMDb lists J. Edgar Hoover, Leopold Stowkowski, Sally Rand,
> Gable, Garbo, Grant, Ned Sparks, Ann Sheridan, Edward G. Robinson,
> Bing Crosby, Johnny Weissmuller, Jimmy Stewart, The Three Stooges,
> Oliver Hardy, Mickey Rooney, Peter Lorre, Henry Fonda, Jerry Colonna,
> and the Marx Brothers.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
12295


From: George Robinson
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:21am
Subject: Re: Song/Vanilla
 
I can remember the line, but I can't place the film. In my mind I hear Joan
Blondell or someone like her saying it, but that could just be my sense of
what is right and fit. It's that kind of line.
I agree with you on A Song Is Born, although it has a pretty decent gang of
musicians. As I said before I think it's dreadful.
g

Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan


----- Original Message -----
From: "jpcoursodon"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 5:03 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Song/Vanilla


> Does anybody share Fred's opinion that "A SONG IS BORN" is "even
> greater" than "BALL OF FIRE"? Or even as good? I always found the
> movie atrocious.
>
> On a different subject and out of the blue: can anyone tell me in
> what film of the thirties the last line is: "I'll take vanilla"? I've
> been trying to remember for almost decades. I think Kay Francis was
> in it. I remember seeing the film at the New School, one of Bill
> Everson's famous screenings. (that's where I first saw LOVE AFFAIR
> too -- at the time it was very hard to see. I had seen the remake at
> least 20 years before.)
> JPC
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
12296


From: Fred Camper
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:39am
Subject: Re: Subject Headers: Was: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/)
 
George Robinson wrote:

>The Balcony is now a not unpleasant Italian restaurant....
>
Having recently made a couple of posts about chess, I can hardly object
to "off-topic" posts here, but the way to do it is to put "OT" in the
subject line. "Very OT" is also sometimes advisable, the point being,
there are a lot of posts here, and most of us won't have time to read
all of them, and "OT" is a good warning that the subject matter is not
directly related to the group's purpose. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't
have OT posts sometimes, just that they be labeled correctly.

So Ruy and Fernando, if you want to tell us about that bistro in Rio de
Janeiro where the "Contracampo" crowd meets, please do -- just label it
"OT."

Fred Camper
12297


From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:39am
Subject: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
> The Edison is now
> the Metro, a first-run house that was duplexed about ten years ago.

No, the Metro was formerly known as the Midtown. The Edison, as I recall, was the dumpy one between 109th and 110th that must have vanished sometime in the '60s.

> Hell, you'd barely recognize the old neighborhood.
> g
12299


From: Richard Modiano
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:47am
Subject: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:

"Surely you don't consider David Miller and John Farrow great
auteurs?"

Indeed not. Ditto for Fleming and Yokoyama. I stretched it to
mention those remakes. On the other hand, the term "remake" itself
wasn't clearly defined. For example, are later adaptations of a
particular novel necessarily remakes? Or various versions of an
historical incident like the gunfight at the O.K. corral or the 47
ronin vendetta? If we define "remake" narrowly maybe it would only
refer to movies based on original scenarios like THE MAN WHO KNEW TOO
MUCH or UKIGUSA MONOGATARI/A STORY OF FLOATING WEEDS, or Van Sant's
version of PSYCHO because it duplicates the changes made by
Hitchcock's PSYCHO from Robert Bloch's novel. Perhaps a broad
definition would allow one to say that SABOTEUR is a remake of THE 39
STEPS and that NORTH BY NORTHWEST is a remake of SABOTEUR.

Richard
12300


From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:55am
Subject: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Worrall" wrote:
>
> As for other remakes there's:
>

That reminds me..

The Reckless Moment (Ophuls)/The Deep End (McGehee/Siegel)

La Ronde (Ophuls)/Circle of Love (Vadim)

The Shop Around the Corner (Lubitsch)/In the Good Old Summertime (Leonard)/You've Got Mail (Ephron)

The Champ (Vidor)/The Clown
(Leonard)/The Champ (Zeffirelli)

When Tomorrow Comes (Stahl)/Interlude (Sirk)/Interlude (Billington)

Viridiana (Bunuel)/Banoo [The Lady] (Mehrjui)

...and surely this could go on and on, but was never meant to be so open-ended!

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