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Posts From the Internet Film Discussion Group, a_film_by

This group is dedicated to discussing film as art from an auteurist perspective. The index to these files of posts can be found at http://www.fredcamper.com/afilmby/ The purpose of these files is to make our posts more accessible, for downloading and reading and to search engines.

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12301


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:07am
Subject: Farrow (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
> Surely you don't consider David Miller and John Farrow great auteurs?

I actually do consider Farrow a strong director with a distinctive tone.
David Thomson's article on him in A BIOGRAPHICAL DICTIONARY OF FILM
turned me on to him. I like FIVE CAME BACK, YOU CAME ALONG, CALIFORNIA,
TWO YEARS BEFORE THE MAST, CALCUTTA, THE BIG CLOCK, and ALIAS NICK BEAL
the best - some people like Farrow's 50s work as well, though I feel as
if there's a dropoff in quality. - Dan
12302


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:18am
Subject: Fleming (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
> Indeed not. Ditto for Fleming and Yokoyama.

I don't know Yokoyama at all - do you like him?

As long as I'm sticking up for directors, I think Fleming is a pretty
talented guy too - maybe not great, but not dismissible either.
RECKLESS is actually quite cool - and then there's TEST PILOT, RED DUST,
maybe BOMBSHELL.... - Dan
12303


From:
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 0:24am
Subject: Re: Re: One Sunday Afternoon (was: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
Bill Krohn wrote:

>OSA is to Strawberry Blonde more or less as the Wilder-Diamond
>Front Page is to His Girl Friday: it totally "de-constructs" Walsh's
>own original, and his whole oeuvre.

This is really interesting to me. Could you elaborate at all, Bill (if you
remember the details of your first piece of film criticism)?

Craig, I also like your comparison of "One Sunday Afternoon" to "Ambersons."

Peter
12304


From:
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 0:30am
Subject: Re: Re: Joseph Cotten (was Welles interviews)
 
Aaron Graham wrote:

>But as Peter mentions: he was back in fine form for
>Cimino's "Heaven's Gate"!

I simply love Cotten's work in "Heaven's Gate," and, of course, it's in no
small part due to the extraordinary way Cimino uses him. Before we're really
introduced to any of the other characters, there's that staggering wide shot of
The Reverend Doctor at the podium, the camera moving in closer and closer to
him, past throngs of people. He sets the film on its course, and the
character's words about "high ideals" resonate later on as the film becomes tragic
(which it does almost immediately after the Harvard graduation.)

I read somewhere that the text of The Reverend Doctor's speech was an actual
19th century college graduation address. Can anyone confirm this?

Damien, I will be sure to check out Dieterle's Cotten triptych. Dieterle is
a director who I'm almost totally unfamiliar with, I must confess, though I
know you are a big fan of "Portrait of Jennie," among others. I loved what V.F.
Perkins wrote about Cotten in his BFI book on "Ambersons": he calls Eugene's
speech in which the character concedes the automobile may have been a step
backward in civilization one of the actor's great moments, and also says he
appreciates the fact that Cotten wasn't asked to alter his Virginian accent for the
film.

Peter
12305


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:40am
Subject: OT reminiscing about Upper West Side movie theatres (continued)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"
wrote:
> > The Edison is now
> > the Metro, a first-run house that was duplexed about ten years
ago.
>
> No, the Metro was formerly known as the Midtown. The Edison, as I
recall, was the dumpy one between 109th and 110th that must have
vanished sometime in the '60s.
>
> > Hell, you'd barely recognize the old neighborhood.
> > g

NO, the Edison was there into the '80s. Dumpy but sort of nice.
For a while it even showed good movies.

JPC
12306


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:48am
Subject: Re: Joseph Cotten (was Welles interviews)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
.)
>
> I read somewhere that the text of The Reverend Doctor's speech was
an actual
> 19th century college graduation address. Can anyone confirm this?
>
> Peter

Cotten's speech is essential to the film, and most critics (including
Sarris) grumbled that it didn't make sense and was totally useless.
Ciino has said that it was direived from several actual graduation
speeches of the time. Has any one checked? I'm rather willing to
believe him.

JPC
12307


From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:58am
Subject: 1934 short "I'll take vanilla."
 
Ice-cream vendor Charley gets mixed up with a cute girl and her snotty
nephew.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0025288/combined
12308


From: Filipe Furtado
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:54am
Subject: Re: Re: gratitude for A. Martin
 
First l let me congratulate Adrian for another great issue of Rouge. My only
complain is that it take so long between issues.

Now on Rocha. There`s a fascinating collection of his letters published
here. Although he does seems to read a lot (including political texts) , he
mention in more than one letter that he never actually read Marx. Rocha was
always very smart (and provocative) thinker, but he was not always very good
at expressing his ideas on paper or interviews.His book on brazilian film
history is fascinanting and full of interesting ideas but it also has a
whole chapter atacking Mario Peixoto's Limite which he haven't actually seen
at the time. He also has a fine (if uneven) collection of criticism,
including a very funny piece about meeting John Ford in a film festival
(with a hilarious description of Ford's to what a believe was a Makavenej
film).

Filipe


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabe Klinger"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:37 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: gratitude for A. Martin


> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rector" wrote:
> > Gabe wrote: >>though there is some post-68 twaddle that Straub takes
> > and runs with.
> >
> > What do you mean by this Gabe?
>
> For example Straub's comment about art-houses having very bad projection
because
> art-house distributors don't understand that film is a very material art
(in response to
> Rocha's statement that art-house audiences are very bourgeois)... Straub
is at the
> core of this conversation; he is the one who "sees" (as Daney once wrote
about
> Rossellini), or at least the most quotable of the bunch. Rocha is equally
interesting,
> but his ideological musings are colloquial compared to Straub, who has the
> authoritative aura. ..Rocha is sometimes too insistent on dichotomizing
socialist
> cinema, commercial cinema, etc. He also says some things on the virtues of
reading
> (Das Kapital) though I doubt Rocha read any political texts.
>
> Straub: For example John Ford's movies are profoundly political.
>
> Oh yeah baby.
>
> Gabe
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
12309


From: Filipe Furtado
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:00am
Subject: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
> Almost forgot about THE THING - one of John Carpenter's salutes to
> his acknowledged master, Howard Hawks, a very different take on the
> story, and very great in and of itself.

The Thing is one of Carpenter`s best, but it also struck me as one of his
least hawkasian.

>
> And then, Howard Hawks' SCARFACE is given a thorough (and divisive)
> makeover by Brian DePalma.
>

I'm a big fan of De Palma but his Scarface (which is as much Olivers Stone's
as De Palma's) is a disaster.

Is there any fan of Van Sant's Psycho? I didn't exactly like it but as an
experiment it was a lot more valid and interesting than most critics
thought.

Filipe
12310


From: Filipe Furtado
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:04am
Subject: Re: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
I'm among Love Affair fans. Most because I think Boyer is a lot better in
the role than Grant. But also because McCarey gets lost with the scope
frequently in the remake`s second half. But both are first rate, if not as
great as Make Way for Tomorrow or The Bells of St. Mary's.

Filipe

----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Bona"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 2:31 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair


> I much prefer Love Affair -- which I did see before the remake --
> because I find it much more focused, the more immediate 1.37 to 1
> ratio more appropriate for McCarey's loving and humane treatment of
> his characters and his direct, unbridled emotionalism than 'scope.
>
>
> Admittedly, though, I'm not absolutely crazy about either (neither of
> them would be among my top 10 McCarey films) because I find that the
> way the director pulls back from inherent sheer romanticism of the
> material to be frustrating and not counterbalanced by a compensatory
> factor. I much prefer the other 1939 Charles Boyer/Irene Dunne
> collaboration, John Stahl's When Tomorrow Comes.
>
> Incidentally, McCarey preferred Love Affair to An Affair To Remember
> because he thought Boyer was much better than Grant, and I'd
> certainly agree with him there.
>
> (On the other hand, I saw Colorado Territory after High Sierra, and I
> think the re-make is far superior.)
>
> -- Damien
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
> wrote:
> > AAFTR was on the Fox Movie Channel today and I got to talking with
> my> wife -- who hasn't seen either version but likes McCarey -- about
> the > feeling I have, shared by several of my friends including a
> couple of > listmembers, that one's enthusiasm for the two films
> usually runs in the > order in which you saw them.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
12311


From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:24am
Subject: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Filipe Furtado"
wrote:

> Is there any fan of Van Sant's Psycho? I didn't exactly like it but
as an
> experiment it was a lot more valid and interesting than most critics
> thought.
>
> Filipe

I was surprised to read that Godard thought about doing something
similar to Van Sant's _Psycho_.

This is from an interview at the 2001 Cannes festival.

Télérama: Certain shots even seem inspired by Bresson.

Jean-Luc Godard: Bresson is not someone you can copy. I often
sometimes happened to think, when I was running out of inspiration,
that I could make remakes, but well done, faithfully, shot by shot.
There's a project which went rather far with _Touchez pas au grisbi_,
that I liked very much. And then I thought of Bresson's _Les Dames
du bois de Boulogne_. But that was obviously completely impossible.


Paul
12312


From: Andy Rector
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:59am
Subject: Re: gratitude for A. Martin
 
Gabe wrote:
> Rocha's statement that art-house audiences are very bourgeois)...

Art house FILMS are very bourgeois. We don't like art films, we like
cinema. ("little leftist social-democratic...")
Each voice represents a different point of view amongst filmmakers
facing the same problem (revolution, cinema/world) and Rocha speaks
from a specific place it seems. Straub and Jansco have rage in their
responses, bitter and quiet (destroy!), respectively. Straub always
speaks in great booms, to everyones benefit. Its hard to say what any
of these filmmakers have contributed to Marxism!

Does anyone know about this filmmaker that Straub mentions: Matjas
Klopcic?

>Clémenti: But people are going to read less and less, and if
that's
>so, they're going to see more and more films. Because basically a
>film has more to give than a book. We are still library-ridden,
we're
>a book-ridden generation. We've got Marx, we've got Lenin,
but think
>of fifty years away. The filmmakers will go much further than Lenin,
>than Karl Marx. This is normal. It's evolution, natural
evolution ...

>Straub: Because their only means of expression will be the cinema.

This is unfathomable optimism for movies and society, even for the
time. C's prediction was true, people don't read anymore...and how far
have we gone with films as a result? It pains me to think. Yet another
violation of nature (evolution)...

yours,
andy
12313


From:
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:24am
Subject: Re: Fleming (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
Some years ago, saw the second half of "The Wet Parade" while channel
surfing. Pretty good!

Mike Grost
12314


From: Damien Bona
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:29am
Subject: Re: OT reminiscing about Upper West Side movie theatres (continued)
 
The Edison was at 103rd Street and Broadway, and for a while in the
70s showed Spanish-language films -- there was a life-size cardboard
cut-out of Cantiflas perched outside. It was later a dollar third-
run theatre and I think at one point it showed porn. I believe it
was gutted and a supermarket took over the space, but I'm not sure
what's there now (the building may have been knocked down and
replaced by a highrise, in the unfortunate tradition of the Riverside
and Riviera arounf 98th/99th streets)

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"

> wrote:
> > > The Edison is now
> > > the Metro, a first-run house that was duplexed about ten years
> ago.
> >
> > No, the Metro was formerly known as the Midtown. The Edison, as
I
> recall, was the dumpy one between 109th and 110th that must have
> vanished sometime in the '60s.
> >
> > > Hell, you'd barely recognize the old neighborhood.
> > > g
>
> NO, the Edison was there into the '80s. Dumpy but sort of nice.
> For a while it even showed good movies.
>
> JPC
12315


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:33am
Subject: Re: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
--- Paul Gallagher wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Filipe Furtado"
> wrote:
>
> > Is there any fan of Van Sant's Psycho? I didn't
> exactly like it but
> as an
> > experiment it was a lot more valid and interesting
> than most critics
> > thought.
> >
> > Filipe
>
>
I'm a big fan of Gus' "Psycho" he conned a major film
studio into making a piece of conceptual art.

The "Making of" on the DVD "Psycho Path" was made by
Gus' ex-boyfirend D.J. and is quite interesting.



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12316


From: Noel Vera
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:36am
Subject: Re: Re: My directors pantheon
 
> I knew I'd forget some names: Leos
> Carax came
> to me last night.
>

Charles Burnett last night.

> Romero made: "Mad Doctor of Blood Island" and
> "Twilight
> People"

Mad Doctor is camp fun. But if you can check out
Gerardo de Leon's Terror is a Man, that's a more fair
sample of what Filipino filmmakers can do in an
international production.

I believe some New York video stores have good copies
of Filipino films, subtitled even. Facets in Chicago
(they mail) has a copy of Lino Brocka's Orapronobis,
it might even have titles. They're very hard to find.

> (When I ask my
> Filipino
> friends here in SF what to see, they roll there eyes
> and seem
> much more interested in Hollywood fare. )

A prejudice we've been fighting forever. French and
fellow Southeast Asian critics seem more interested
and more knowledgeable on Filipino cinema than most
Filipinos. Pierre Rissent and Tony Rayns are resident
experts.





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12317


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:41am
Subject: Re: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- jpcoursodon wrote:

> >
> > We could have sung Porter duets and charmed
> auteurists off the
> trees! (I know you know what I'm quoting, or perhaps
> misquoting).
> I saw the two Cukors in those dim years but
> can't remember if
> it was at Roger and Howard's or at MOMA.
>

Definitely at HowardandRoger's (one word, always)



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12318


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:44am
Subject: Re: Re: Re: My directors pantheon
 
--- Noel Vera wrote:
> > I knew I'd forget some names: Leos
> > Carax came
> > to me last night.
> >
>
Ran into Leos Carax two days ago at "Book Soup" here
in L.A.

He hasn't changed a bit. Thin and intense as ever.

Still struggling with his career.



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12319


From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:01am
Subject: Re:(was contemporary language in old...
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona" >
> I think Rush is always pathetic. He's for me, Bill, what Malkovich
> is for you. By the same token, whenever I see an Anthony Hopkins
> movie coming I also run the other way, but at least he does have
his
> fascinating performance in Nixon on his resume. These two guys
could
> do a reality TV show, "Battle Of The Mannered Stars."
>
> -- Damien

Ay-fucking-men to that, but it was not always so. Pre-Oscar Hopkins
was fantastic in MAGIC.
12320


From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:11am
Subject: Re: OT reminiscing about Upper West Side movie theatres (continued)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona" wrote:
> The Edison was at 103rd Street and Broadway, and for a while in the
> 70s showed Spanish-language films -- there was a life-size cardboard
> cut-out of Cantiflas perched outside. It was later a dollar third-
> run theatre and I think at one point it showed porn.

I stand corrected -- of course you and JPC are right about the Edison, which was at 2704 Broadway. (The Midtown/Metro is at 2626.) I was thinking of the Nemo, a much earlier casualty, at 2834 Broadway. (Info courtesy of
http://www.cinematour.com/theatres.php?db=us&province=NY&page=13 -- although this awesome directory of vanished theaters fails to supply their dates of expiration or demolition in most cases.)
12321


From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:15am
Subject: Re: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair
 
One Sunday/Strawberry and High Sierra/Colorado Territory have been
mentioned. There are also Objective, Burma!/Distant Drums -- where I
recall preferring the remake. But a whole slew of late Walsh is
remake-ish -- eg Marines, Let's Go re: the Quirt/Flagg films.

Most perverse remake of another director's movie: Ford's What Price
Glory. Of course both of them were working from an anti-war play that
they thought was no fun, but Ford REALLY paid it lip service. I seem
to remember a guy who comes stumbling in every hour on the hour
saying things like "What price glory, Sergeant Quirt?" and stumbling
out as Cags/Duryea return to their comic hijinks re: Corinne Calvet.
And every time the guy stumbles in you see this really lurid lighting
through the door, where the war's going on. (Hope I've got the cast
straight. It's been almost 30 years, but you don't forget a thing
like that...)
12322


From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:19am
Subject: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> > >
> > > We could have sung Porter duets and charmed
> > auteurists off the
> > trees! (I know you know what I'm quoting, or perhaps
> > misquoting).
> > I saw the two Cukors in those dim years but
> > can't remember if
> > it was at Roger and Howard's or at MOMA.
> >
>
> Definitely at HowardandRoger's (one word, always)

I was at that one too -- but I was probably out in the hall getting
stoned w. John Hughes while you guys weren't talking to each other.
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
12323


From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:24am
Subject: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
I haven't been back in 12 years. It was like The Twilight Zone the
last time, which was after a 14-yr gap.

Sid Geffen bought the Carbnegie and the Bleecker for his wife Jacky
Raynal to progrm. Rogerandhoward never programmed for them as far as
I know; they just sold them the name The 1000 Eyes for their
membership program and magazine.

I was talking to Howard after the deal was made and he was trying to
find a new name for their apartment. I suggested Camera Obscura,
which wasn't taken yet, because they showed such obscure films. He
said, "You think WE show obscure films! Looks at this!!" and pulled
out a mimeographed schedule for Joe's Place. The only title on it
that I recognized was Moon Over Harlem, playing that week, which I
hadn't seen yet, so I went there to see it. My first and only visit
to Joe's Place -- one of the weirdest experiences of my life.
12324


From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:26am
Subject: Re: Subject Headers: Was: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/)
 
> So Ruy and Fernando, if you want to tell us about that bistro in
Rio de
> Janeiro where the "Contracampo" crowd meets, please do -- just
label it
> "OT."
>
> Fred Camper

Who's Fernando?
12325


From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:29am
Subject: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
> >
> > When was your maiden piece published, Bill? Thousand Eyes was
not
> > mimeographed, neither was it really small (24 pages). By sheer
> > coincidence I happen to have here on my desk a copy of the mag.
dated
> > November 1976 (Vol.2 no.3.
>
> By sheer non-coincidence I have just dug out two issues, Walsh and
Vidor/Minnelli, from 1974

I may have been in the SECOND Walsh issue. I did One Sunday Afternoon
because all the good ones were taken by people in the in-group. My
piece was signed T. Leo French.
12326


From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:31am
Subject: Re: Non-existent lines (was contemporary language in old...)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Fred Camper wrote:
>
>
> jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> > ... The other most notorious non-existent line is "Come with me
to the
> >casbah". ...
> >JPC
> >
> >
> >
> Wait a minute! Chuck Jones's Pepe LePew is not non existent, but a
> charcter with as much inner depth and complexisty as any in film
> history. Scottie and Madeline in "Vertigo" have got nothing on M.
LePew!
> More seriously, if your point is that it doesn't exist in
a "feature,"
> fine, though I wouldn't really know for sure, but Pepe says it in
more
> than one work of cinema art.
>
> - Fred Camper

"I like what the man says!" (John Ireland, Red River, barely
audible...)
12327


From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:32am
Subject: Re: One Sunday Afternoon (was: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
> Bill Krohn wrote:
>
> >OSA is to Strawberry Blonde more or less as the Wilder-Diamond
> >Front Page is to His Girl Friday: it totally "de-constructs"
Walsh's
> >own original, and his whole oeuvre.
>
> This is really interesting to me. Could you elaborate at all, Bill
(if you
> remember the details of your first piece of film criticism)?


Remember it! I still have it somewhere...
12328


From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:33am
Subject: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
> I'm a big fan of Gus' "Psycho" he conned a major film
> studio into making a piece of conceptual art.


Another "copy" that received some attention a while ago (although I didn't quite see its point) was Elisabeth Subrin's short film, SHULIE. Jonathan Rosenbaum reviewed it and a similarly "conceptual" project by Jill Godmilow, and mentioned some other remakes of interest at http://www.chireader.com/movies/archives/1998/1198/11208.html
12329


From: Adrian Martin
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:58am
Subject: Matjaz Klopcic
 
Matjaz Klopcic is so little-known that his name was completely mis-spelt in
the transcript we had for ROUGE, and hence this necessitated ace detective
work on our part!

I think he gets a fleeting mention in the new Peter Cowie book about world
cinema in the 60s. The message there is that, for whatever reason, his work
did not 'cross over' into the world art-film market. This seems true!

But he has made plenty of films. Of the two Straub refers to, we were able
to find a few references to ON PAPER WINGS, but the one before that
(presumably mid 60s) is still a mystery.

After the 60s, there is BLOSSOMS IN AUTUMN (1973), THE WIDOWHOOD OF KAROLINA
ZASTER (1976), a short SLOVENIAN GOTHIC (1974), and DEDISCINA (1985). Not so
many years ago he gave a presentation about himself and his work in Paris.

Any Klopcic experts in this group?

Thanks to all who have said nice things here about the new ROUGE issue
(www.rouge.com.au).

Adrian
12330


From: Chris Fujiwara
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:37am
Subject: Re: One Sunday Afternoon (was: An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
I haven't seen One Sunday Afternoon in a long time and remember it
only vaguely, but it seems clear that any attempt to come to terms
with the film would have to account for the presence of Dennis
Morgan - an actor who, I think, never elevated anything he was in (my
favorite Morgan film is Pearl of the South Pacific, which aptly casts
him as an unimpressive money-grubber).

Having him instead of Cagney in the main role drastically changes the
meaning of the character and his experience: Cagney is so energetic
and charismatic that The Strawberry Blonde automatically becomes a
tragicomedy of wasted potential just by casting him as a dentist;
more than that, it becomes not just a film about the acceptance of
diminished possibilities (the overt theme of the story), but a film
about the heroism of this acceptance. Whereas with Morgan, everything
is scaled down, closer to the level of the presumable viewer;
acceptance of diminished possibilities is not posed as heroic, since
the possibilities were never seen as very large to begin with.

One reason why it makes sense that Walsh did so many remakes of his
own films is that much of late Walsh can be seen as a complex coming
to terms with a world of fallen, diminished male figures (a response
to the changed Hollywood, one by one bereft of its legendary stars,
while in their place come people whom Walsh must certainly have seen
as wanting in comparison, the nadir being Troy Donahue whom Walsh
despised). The son is always less than the father.

Band of Angels and The Naked and the Dead are particularly
interesting: in the former, the son thinks he wants to kill the
father but realizes he is not worthy of the deed, so contents himself
with helping the father escape from others who want to kill him; in
The Naked and the Dead, Walsh confronts the too-strong father as a
problem, along with the problem of defining strength as the ego's
dominating and imposing itself on the world (a key Walshian theme:
all his best films problematize this definition).

Probably no one is keeping score, but I'm one of those who prefer An
Affair to Remember to Love Affair - I think McCarey uses Scope
brilliantly (sufficient justification for remaking a film that was
good to begin with can be found in that shattering shot in which
Grant opens the door to Kerr's bedroom), and I think the remake
benefits from being a kind of critique of the Grant persona in the
same way that North by Northwest is (didn't Robin Wood make this
point?), whereas with Boyer, as superb as he is, that dimension of
the critique of superficial "success" and avoidance of commitment is
lacking.
12331


From: George Robinson
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:47am
Subject: Re: Re: OT reminiscing about Upper West Side movie theatres (continued)
 
You are absolutely right. I stand corrected.
What was the Metro before it became the Metro?
g

Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan


----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Bona"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:29 AM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: OT reminiscing about Upper West Side movie theatres
(continued)


> The Edison was at 103rd Street and Broadway, and for a while in the
> 70s showed Spanish-language films -- there was a life-size cardboard
> cut-out of Cantiflas perched outside. It was later a dollar third-
> run theatre and I think at one point it showed porn. I believe it
> was gutted and a supermarket took over the space, but I'm not sure
> what's there now (the building may have been knocked down and
> replaced by a highrise, in the unfortunate tradition of the Riverside
> and Riviera arounf 98th/99th streets)
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
> wrote:
> > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"
>
> > wrote:
> > > > The Edison is now
> > > > the Metro, a first-run house that was duplexed about ten years
> > ago.
> > >
> > > No, the Metro was formerly known as the Midtown. The Edison, as
> I
> > recall, was the dumpy one between 109th and 110th that must have
> > vanished sometime in the '60s.
> > >
> > > > Hell, you'd barely recognize the old neighborhood.
> > > > g
> >
> > NO, the Edison was there into the '80s. Dumpy but sort of nice.
> > For a while it even showed good movies.
> >
> > JPC
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
12332


From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:14am
Subject: Re: Farrow (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
> I actually do consider Farrow a strong director with a distinctive
tone.

Robert Mitchum claimed Farrow's signiature shot was to have the
camera follow a pretty girl's ass through a bar.

He also bluntly described Farrow as "a sadist".

Not that either point reduces his claims to auteurship. Probably the
opposite.

THE CLOCK is a real good film. George MacReady as Charles Laughton's
male secretary - there's suggestive casting for you.
12333


From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:57am
Subject: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
some more:

Sturges reconfigures parts of Wellman's BEGGARS OF LIFE and WILD BOYS
OF THE ROAD (freight trains, girl dressed as boy) in SULLIVAN'S
TRAVELS, and has elemnts of that film reshuffled by the Coens in O
BROTHER WHERE ART THOU?

Then I guess there's Mackendrick/Coen in THE LADYKILLERS.

Sturges' THE MIRACLE OF MORGAN'S CREEK mutated some considerable way
to become Tashlin's ROCK A BYE BABY with Jerry Lewis (though the
films share a producer) and Wellman's NOTHING SACRED also became a
Lewis vehicle.

I'm not going to make a case for the tepid remake of UNFAITHFULLY
YOURS though. Who the devil made it?
12334


From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 0:04pm
Subject: Access to Rouge
 
Would someone please tell me how to get access to the new issue of
Rouge? Every time I enter rouge.com.au or use the senses of cinema
link the only thing that comes up is the old Ruiz issue. What am I
doing wrong?
12335


From:
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:05am
Subject: Re: Griffith (was auteur remake auteur)
 
They are not remakes. But "The Mothering Heart" (D. W. Griffith, 1913)
anticipates many of the subjects and themes of "Way Down East" (1920). Both films
star Lillian Gish, as a sincere, poor woman who is exploited by philandering
husbands; in both, she struggles with motherhood. The two make a powerful pair.
"The Mothering Heart" is around a half hour long. It is available on the 2
DVD set of "Biograph shorts" by Griffith. So is the extraordinary "Corner in
Wheat" (1909).

Mike Grost
12336


From:
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:14am
Subject: Re: Dennis Morgan (was One Sunday Afternoon)
 
I've always had a sneaking fondness for Dennis Morgan.
Lots of people just do not like Dennis Morgan. My father always thought he
was so boring. There was an article on a group called "The Dullness Society" or
some such in the paper, c1975, encouraging dull people. One of their projects
was going to be a Dennis Morgan Film Festival. My Dad loved this.
Certainly Dennis Morgan was no Cagney. But he didn't try to be either. His
role was to be a traditional Irish tenor, someone who sang well, looked
handsome, and who offered people cheer and good spirits. His performances in musicals
like "Tear Gas Squad" and "It's a Great Feeling" certainly added to the supply
of joy in the world.

Mike Grost
12337


From:
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:21am
Subject: Re: Distant Drums (was One Sunday Afternoon ..)
 
The biggest problem with "Distant Drums" (Walsh) is a single line of dialogue
in the film, dismissing Native Americans as "blood-thirsty savages" (if
memory serves). This racism places the film beyond the pale. It is really too bad,
because otherwise it is a remarkable film, with some of Walsh's most brilliant
landscape photography, and a continuation of the anti-war theme that runs
through so much of Walsh's work.
No such problems afflict "The Naked and the Dead", one of Walsh's most
magnificent works. And one of the most complex and penetrating anti-war films ever
made.

Mike Grost
12338


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 0:55pm
Subject: Re: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
--- jess_l_amortell wrote:

> Another "copy" that received some attention a while
> ago (although I didn't quite see its point) was
> Elisabeth Subrin's short film, SHULIE. Jonathan
> Rosenbaum reviewed it and a similarly "conceptual"
> project by Jill Godmilow, and mentioned some other
> remakes of interest at
>
http://www.chireader.com/movies/archives/1998/1198/11208.html
>
SHULIE won the Los Angels Films Critics Association's
Douglas Edwards Award for Independent/Experimental
Film/Video.




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12339


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: Farrow (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
--- cairnsdavid1967 wrote:
.
>
> Robert Mitchum claimed Farrow's signiature shot was
> to have the
> camera follow a pretty girl's ass through a bar.
>
> He also bluntly described Farrow as "a sadist".
>
He described Preminger the same way. In "The RKO
Years" Jean Simmons talks about how Mitchum stood up
to preminger when Preminger kept demandinding repeated
takes of his slapping her in "Angel Face." And
Preminger wanted Mitchumto REALLY slap her.


>
> THE CLOCK is a real good film. George MacReady as
> Charles Laughton's
> male secretary - there's suggestive casting for you.
>
>
In the book it was more than merely "suggestive."



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12340


From: George Robinson
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:03pm
Subject: Re: Re: Non-existent lines (was contemporary language in old...)
 
Sir, this is Hollywood. When the legend becomes fact, well, we sell it for a
lot of money.

g

Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan


> >
> > jpcoursodon wrote:
> >
> > > ... The other most notorious non-existent line is "Come with me
> to the
> > >casbah". ...
> > >JPC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Wait a minute! Chuck Jones's Pepe LePew is not non existent, but a
> > charcter with as much inner depth and complexisty as any in film
> > history. Scottie and Madeline in "Vertigo" have got nothing on M.
> LePew!
> > More seriously, if your point is that it doesn't exist in
> a "feature,"
> > fine, though I wouldn't really know for sure, but Pepe says it in
> more
> > than one work of cinema art.
> >
> > - Fred Camper
>
> Exactly my point. Legend became fact and Pepe kept it alive. JP
>
12341


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
--- cairnsdavid1967 wrote:

>
> Sturges' THE MIRACLE OF MORGAN'S CREEK mutated some
> considerable way
> to become Tashlin's ROCK A BYE BABY with Jerry Lewis
> (though the
> films share a producer) and Wellman's NOTHING SACRED
> also became a
> Lewis vehicle.
>
That was "Living it Up" which is quite good. Jerry has
a memorable dance scene with Sherry North in it.

And don't forget "You're Never Too Young" --a remake
of "The Major and the Minor"with Jerry in the Ginger
Rogers role.

Fassbinder was a great fan of that film and the "Face
the Music" number is not only shown but re-enacted by
Gorrfirend John and his cohorts in "In a Year of 13 Moons."




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12342


From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:14pm
Subject: Re: Farrow (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
> > He also bluntly described Farrow as "a sadist".
> >
> He described Preminger the same way. In "The RKO
> Years" Jean Simmons talks about how Mitchum stood up
> to preminger when Preminger kept demandinding repeated
> takes of his slapping her in "Angel Face." And
> Preminger wanted Mitchum to REALLY slap her.

Yeah, Otto's a well known bastard. My favourite line on him was "Otto
had the sense of humour of a guillotine" - Vincent Price.
The Lubitsch bio reports Otto hijacking Ernst's last film after his
heart attack, with a blatant lie about it being Lubitsch's wish.
After the disaster of Otto's last film for Ernst, his friends thought
it unlikely he'd have been bequeathed another movie.

Feel sorry for Mia with a dad like Farrow.

> > THE CLOCK is a real good film. George MacReady as
> > Charles Laughton's
> > male secretary - there's suggestive casting for you.
> >
> In the book it was more than merely "suggestive."

Goodie! A friend just bought this, I'll read it after she's finished.
12343


From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:20pm
Subject: Lewis remake auteur (was auteur remake auteur)
 
Is there any major filmamker who HASN'T been remade by Jer, or remade
him?

I'd like to see Jer's version of BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES.

Me and B. Kite once cast a version of KING LEAR with Jer as Lear,
Sandra Bernhard and Catherine O'Hara as Goneril and Regan, jim carrey
as the Gool, maybe Peter Falk as Gloucester. Not sure who'd make the
best Cordelia.

But the most exciting Jerry idea we had was RICHARD III.
12344


From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:28pm
Subject: Re: movie stars in cartoons (was: non-existent)
 
Hollywood Steps Out (1941) - Avery worked on this, uncredited. It's
one of an intermittent series of toons feature mass walk-ons of
caricatured stars. I'm not 100%, but I think I saw a particularly
weird one where the stars were played by insects or birds or
somethin'.

And I recall there's one featuring Buster Keaton and "partner" Jimmy
Durante, presumably an MGM toon from the thirties. Ugh.
12345


From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:43pm
Subject: The Greatest Films Never Made
 
Always been fascinated with unmade films.

Dunno if you've discussed it before here...

Once listened for over three hours to Sam Fuller describing the plot
of his THE LUSTY DAYS civil war epic. he only got half-way thru the
story before running out of time.

In Richard Lester's FLASHMAN he was to have a shot where 10,000
Britsih troops have gone to sleep in a valley and been covered in a
blanket of snow. The bugler blows, and ten thousand men rise up out
of the virgin snow...

But that's nothing compared to the shots Sir-Chrsitopher-Professor
Frayling describes from Leone's Stalingrad (or was it Leningrad)
seige movie.
12346


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: Farrow (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
> Robert Mitchum claimed Farrow's signiature shot was to have the
> camera follow a pretty girl's ass through a bar.

I don't suppose he gave citations?

> THE CLOCK is a real good film. George MacReady as Charles Laughton's
> male secretary - there's suggestive casting for you.

You mean THE BIG CLOCK. (THE CLOCK is an even better film.) If you try
to imagine that script without Farrow's somber direction, it's pretty
much one of those light Hollywood suspense-comedy films where the deaths
just set up the entertaining plot. Farrow really changes it by taking a
serious interest in the darkness of the material. - Dan
12347


From: Fred Camper
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:50pm
Subject: Re: Re: Subject Headers: Was: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/)
 
hotlove666 wrote:

>>So Ruy and Fernando, if you want to tell us about that bistro in
>>
>>
>Rio de
>
>
>>Janeiro where the "Contracampo" crowd meets, please do -- just
>>
>>
>label it
>
>
>>"OT."
>>
>>Fred Camper
>>
>>
>
>Who's Fernando?
>
>
>
One of our several Brazilian members, and one who I met when he was
there. He lives near Rio. One of the "staff" (not sure of his "formal"
position) of "Contracampo." He hasn't posted a lot lately, but here's one:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/a_film_by/message/4000

Fred Camper
12348


From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:55pm
Subject: Re: Farrow (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > Robert Mitchum claimed Farrow's signiature shot was to have the
> > camera follow a pretty girl's ass through a bar.
>
> I don't suppose he gave citations?

I think there was a shot like that in HIS KIND OF WOMAN. It's not
jane Russell's behind though. Maybe in WHERE DANGER LIVES, but I
don't recall it.

> > THE CLOCK is a real good film.

> You mean THE BIG CLOCK.

I always get those two mixed up! Along with THE PLOUGHMAN'S CONTRACT
and THE DRAUGHTSMAN'S LUNCH.

Agree re the darkness. Though I think with laughton and macready as
bad guys there would have been a tincture of evil in the film no
matter who'd helmed...

George MacReady - what a guy! Just watched DETECTIVE STOTY and was
thrilled to find him in it.
12349


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:43pm
Subject: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
>
> Definitely at HowardandRoger's (one word, always)
>
>
> Like LaurelandHardy, AurencheetBost, RodgersandHart,
TintinetMilou, CalvandCoolidge (put together)...
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
12350


From: Richard Modiano
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:47pm
Subject: Re: Fleming (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:

"As long as I'm sticking up for directors, I think Fleming is a
pretty talented guy too - maybe not great, but not dismissible
either. RECKLESS is actually quite cool - and then there's TEST
PILOT, RED DUST, maybe BOMBSHELL...."

Fleming and Farrow made more mediocre movies than good ones in my
view. Fleming functioned as a cog in the MGM machine who had some
good projects that he handled well. You can make a case for Farrow,
but what makes the THE BIG CLOCK good is John Seitz's photography and
the Laughton-McReady relationship. Some of his Paramount movies
(like the ones you cited)were good but I think Farrow was at best a
talented studio craftsman. The same goes for Yokoyama who now works
mostly in television.

As for talent, I'm reminded of Gregory Corso's heirarchy: "You got
talent, you got genius and you got divine. That one had talent, he
was ok. You delvelop your talent and then you have genius, and after
that you hit the ballpark divine, like the divine Mozart." Among
poets, as far as Corso was concerned, only Shelly was divine.

By thge way, Corso contributed the best line of dialogue to THE
GOFATHER III in his cameo ("He's got the map of Sicily written on his
face.")

Richard
12351


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:48pm
Subject: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> I was at that one too -- but I was probably out in the hall getting
> stoned w. John Hughes while you guys weren't talking to each other.
> >
> > No one was talking to each other much at those screenings if I
remember correctly. or maybe it was just my natural shyness and lack
of social skills...
JPC
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
12352


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:02pm
Subject: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
a mimeographed schedule for Joe's Place. The only title on it
> that I recognized was Moon Over Harlem, playing that week, which I
> hadn't seen yet, so I went there to see it. My first and only visit
> to Joe's Place -- one of the weirdest experiences of my life.

Bill, believe it or not, that's where I saw MOON OVER HARLEM, so
we must have been at the same show. Like for INDIA SONG... Were you
stoned for the Ulmer? It helps, I guess. You don't discuss it in your
article (which i read in theYellow Now book). I must say the charm of
MOON didn't work for me and I put the film down in the ULMER entry
of "50 ANS". Tavernier hadn't seen it at the time...
I interviewed Ulmer in 1961 for LES LETTRES FRANCAISES when
L"ATLANTIDE came out in France (but at the time I had only seen THE
NAKED DAWN and THE STRANGE WOMAN with its purple French title...)
JPC
12353


From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:09pm
Subject: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666" wrote:
>
> I may have been in the SECOND Walsh issue. I did One Sunday Afternoon
> because all the good ones were taken by people in the in-group. My
> piece was signed T. Leo French.

It's in the "More on Walsh" section of the yellow "Nicholas Ray" issue: August '74 (Issue No. 4). And this issue -- whose lead piece, as it happens, is by Jean-Pierre Coursodon, and which also features George Robinson and John Hughes -- really does look mimeographed, and explains: "Publishing a magazine by copier is, we admit, crude. But it is also cheap and allows us to continue a magazine for which we feel there is a place, if not a need.... Film magazines always lose money and the more elaborate the graphics, the bigger the loss. New York is not a bad place to see movies, but it's not perfect, either, and the continued loss of revival houses is depressing." That, in 1974!!

On the last page: "As we go to press, the name 'Thousand Eyes' has been bought by Carnegie Hall Cinema. We need a new name..."

The history of publications called Thousand Eyes seems almost as tangled as that of the cineclub itself (since the screenings moved so often -- and btw, they did at least at one point have 35mm morning screenings at the Carnegie Hall Cinema). A catalogue (also featuring T. L. French) for a Minnelli retro at the Carnegie Hall and Bleecker St. in 1978 also says on the cover "The Thousand Eyes/Number Four." That was after the run of George Robinson's millennial newsprint edition (my carelessly stored copies of which now crumble to the touch -- the world needs paper as well as film preservationists).
12354


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:12pm
Subject: Re: The Greatest Films Never Made
 
--- cairnsdavid1967 wrote:
> Always been fascinated with unmade films.
>

Me too, especially Rivette's unfinishes "Scenes de la
Vie parallele" series.

"Duelle" (my personal favorite of all his films) was
shot followed by "Noroit." The he shot a few days of
"L'Histoire de Marie et Julien" before having a
breakdown. The fourth film was never made.

"Marie and Julien" was finally filmed recently but
it's apparently no longer related to the original
series.

Another great unmade film is Tashlin's plan to turn
Alexander King's "May This House Be Safe From Tigers"
into a vehicle for Tony Randall.
>




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12355


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:20pm
Subject: Farrow (Was:Fleming)
 
> Fleming and Farrow made more mediocre movies than good ones in my
> view.

This is true of a lot of people, of course - it's even true of some
people that I hold in very high esteem. Sarris certainly used this
criterion when consigning some talented directors to lower categories.
But I've never felt that way. There are so many directors in the world
who just couldn't make art to save their souls - I prefer to draw the
line between them and the ones who have good art in them, rather than
making big distinctions based on batting averages.

Anyway, Farrow had a pretty high rate of interesting films after 1945 or
so - out of 24 films, I count 13 that I've heard someone or another make
a case for. When I play the game of listing directors that Sarris
should have included in THE AMERICAN CINEMA, there are only a few -
Michael Powell, Hugo Fregonese, Robert Hamer, Humphrey Jennings, Rowland
Brown - whom I'd promote before Farrow. I think he's Expressive
Esoterica material.

> You can make a case for Farrow,
> but what makes the THE BIG CLOCK good is John Seitz's photography and
> the Laughton-McReady relationship.

I don't agree. I think someone is directing that film. It's not a
great movie, but I think what virtues it has are a function of the
direction. Check out ALIAS NICK BEAL for a similar tone - it's at least
as good a film, with a different DP and no Laughton. - Dan
12356


From: Fred Camper
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:25pm
Subject: Re: The Greatest Films Never Made (Bresson?)
 
David Ehrenstein wrote:

>--- cairnsdavid1967 wrote:
>
>
>>Always been fascinated with unmade films.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Me too,....
>
There was a round-the-world oil exploration story that was a late
project of Howard Hawks. He also wanted to do a Vietnam film, which he
described in terms that made it sound a bit like "Bringing Up Baby" --
men in an environment they didn't understand. Ford of course had a
Revolutionary War film, "April Morn," which sounded like it could have
been tremendous.

Does anyone know the details of Bresson's proposed "Adam and Eve" film,
a proposal to producer Dino de Laurentiis when he wanted to assign
several directors (including Welles for Noah's Ark) to make "The Bible."
I seem to recall that Bresson submitted a script with no dialogue, which
helped convince Dino that maybe employing these high-falutin' artists
wasn't such a great idea from a box office point of view, but I may have
this completely wrong.

Fred Camper
12357


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:23pm
Subject: Lincoln Center help needed
 
Could someone contact me off-list with a phone number for the Walter
Reade lobby or box office or concessions? Left me address book
there yesterday, stupidly.

Thanks in advance,
Jaime
12358


From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:25pm
Subject: RE: The Greatest Films Never Made
 
> "Marie and Julien" was finally filmed recently but
> it's apparently no longer related to the original
> series.

It is remarkably faithful to the bare-bones "script"
that Claire Denis assembled from the working notes at
the time, but there is no question that it would have
been vastly different if it had been made back in the
'70s. I probably would have preferred that version.

Jonathan Takagi
12359


From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:33pm
Subject: Re: 1000 Eyes (was: One Sunday Afternoon/ An Affair to Remember vs. Love Affair)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon" wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
> wrote:
> > I was at that one too -- but I was probably out in the hall getting
> > stoned w. John Hughes while you guys weren't talking to each other.
> > >

You probably had to turn on out in the hall because someone else (possibly me) was locked in the bathroom turning on there. Seriously (while I basically felt it was probably no more deserving of any special acknowledgment than, say, "coffee, brandy or cigars") I've always wondered if anyone has written coherently about its effects (although I've always suspected it worked differently for different people) on appreciation of the arts, and film in particular. And here I don't mean "head" films, but films in general, and particularly the kind shown at the Thousand Eyes.
12360


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:37pm
Subject: Re: Farrow (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > Robert Mitchum claimed Farrow's signiature shot was to have the
> > camera follow a pretty girl's ass through a bar.
>
Farrow loved long takes with very complicated camera moves that were
hard on the actors, and he was very demanding (he required the actors
to learn pages and pages of dialogue for his long takes). He even had
special dollies and cranes built for him and he reportedly had
devised a take that ran over 10 minutes for CALIFORNIA, requiring a
special magazine. Actually there is no ten-minute take in the
released film (perhaps a result of editing) but several long,
complicated takes with constantly moving camera, two of which run for
close to five minutes. Interestingly that was about the time
Hitchcock made ROPE. There are already examples of those virtuoso
long takes in FULL CONFESSION (1939)then later in THE BIG CLOCK and
ALIAS NICK BEAL. But late in his career Farrow seemed to lose
interest in stylistic flourishes. HONDO, one of his rare westerns, is
his last good movie (Ford shot or supervized a few shots). I've
always liked another western, RIDE VAQUERO (1952)although it's not on
a par with BIG CLOCK or NICK BEAL.
JPC
12361


From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:51pm
Subject: Re: Access to Rouge
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "joe_mcelhaney" wrote:
> Would someone please tell me how to get access to the new issue of
> Rouge? Every time I enter rouge.com.au or use the senses of cinema
> link the only thing that comes up is the old Ruiz issue.


Is it possible you're seeing a "cached" copy and should refresh/reload the page? (the Ruiz, #2 now seems to be at http://rouge.com.au/2/index.html)
12362


From: Doug Cummings
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:05pm
Subject: Re: The Greatest Films Never Made (Bresson?)
 
>Does anyone know the details of Bresson's proposed "Adam and Eve"
>film, a proposal to producer Dino de Laurentiis when he wanted to
>assign several directors (including Welles for Noah's Ark) to make
>"The Bible." I seem to recall that Bresson submitted a script with
>no dialogue, which helped convince Dino that maybe employing these
>high-falutin' artists wasn't such a great idea from a box office
>point of view, but I may have this completely wrong.

No, I believe you're right. But it was a project Bresson envisioned
for many years. Michael Ciment interviewed Bresson about the film
after "L'Argent," and their comments are in James Quandt's
compilation if you haven't already seen it. -Doug

*******

Michael Ciment: A Man Escaped, with its stubborn protagonist, is like
a new Robinson Crusoe. In his cell, he tackles a series of technical
problems, like how to saw through the bars on his window. He does not
indulge in metaphysical despair. He seeks the will to live within
himself.

RB: You'll find much of the same in Genesis, pre-production for which
will begin in a few months' time. Adam is like a shipwrecked sailor
setting off to discover an unknown island. The beauty of Genesis is
God asking Adam to name things and animals. I find that magnificent.
And when he reaches this unknown island, everything is ready and
waiting. I am reconsidering this project, which I gave up fifteen
years ago. It will take at least one year to prepare. There is the
question of getting birds, insects, big animals, a tree. There is the
question when to set it. It is unending. The screenplay is
progressing well, but it is still incomplete. It is a gigantic task.
I am like someone from Marseilles: tired out before I begin.

MC: Where does Genesis end?

RB: Either at the Flood or the Tower of Babel and the invention of
language. It will be a long film, for television and spoken in
Ancient Hebrew, which is a beautiful language, with bits of Aramaic.
Adam cannot speak in French or English, he must speak in a language
almost no one can understand.

MC: Will it be even more "musical" than your other films?

RB: Absolutely. Imagine all the animal sounds, not just at the
Creation, but in the ark, during the Flood. A concert performance!
The emotion. Silence, too, sometimes. I want to do it so badly. I'll
rush at it the way one rushes into the ocean. We'll see what happens.

MC: Where will you shoot it?

RB: I don't know yet. Neither in Palestine nor in any other Middle
Eastern country. I don't want stylized landscapes and anyway they've
never mattered to me much. I'd rather see a camel on top of the
Puy-de-Dome [an extinct volcano in central France] than on a sand
dune. I'd like to shoot in the Auvergne, which is where I was born,
because the landscape is so varied.
12363


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:38pm
Subject: Re: The Greatest Films Never Made (Bresson?)
 
> I am like someone from Marseilles: tired out before I begin.

Does anyone know what Bresson is referring to here?

> I'd rather see a camel on top of the
> Puy-de-Dome [an extinct volcano in central France] than on a sand
> dune. I'd like to shoot in the Auvergne, which is where I was born,
> because the landscape is so varied.

Isn't this where Pialat is from as well? I believe some of us in NYC
saw Auvergne in the amazing LA GUEULE OUVERTE last night. - Dan
12364


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:49pm
Subject: Re: Access to Rouge
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "joe_mcelhaney"
wrote:
> > Would someone please tell me how to get access to the new issue
of
> > Rouge? Every time I enter rouge.com.au or use the senses of
cinema
> > link the only thing that comes up is the old Ruiz issue.
>
>
> Is it possible you're seeing a "cached" copy and should
refresh/reload the page? (the Ruiz, #2 now seems to be at
http://rouge.com.au/2/index.html)


I have just accessed it without any problem at www.rouge.com.au

JPC
12365


From: Patrick Ciccone
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:59pm
Subject: Bresson's Genesis/Les modèles de Pickpocket
 
Humbert Balsan, Gauvain in LANCELOT DU LAC, says that Bresson shot
tests for the Genesis film with some of the zoological contingent of
what would have been the Noah's ark segment. Apparently Bresson
insisted, as always, on using a 50mm lens, which created problems when
approaching zebras, giraffes, and whatnot with a camera rig. Balsan's
essay is in the Cahiers memorial special edition, and includes other
interesting details, especially that Bresson--who lived at the heart
of Paris, on the Ile de la Cité--was appalled whenever he and Balsan
drove around new construction in the Paris suburbs. Not surprising,
but explains the terrifying beauty of L'ARGENT's surfaces, from the
ATM on down. I don't have the article in front of me, but I seem to
remember that Balsan may have been producing Genesis, so he might be
someone to go to track down information of the project.

I may have said this before (or was it Dan who said this to me?) that
the circus sequence in AU HASARD BALTHAZAR, where our eponymous donkey
finds himself in a cage with all the other beasts, seems like a
warm-up for a Genesis.

Is LES MODELES DE PICKPOCKET available anywhere? I saw the aged but
still striking Balsan at a Cinémathèque screening of LANCELOT--an
emanation unlike all other celebrity encounters I've experienced.

PWC
12366


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:15pm
Subject: RE: The Greatest Films Never Made
 
--- Jonathan Takagi wrote:

>
> It is remarkably faithful to the bare-bones "script"
> that Claire Denis assembled from the working notes
> at
> the time, but there is no question that it would
> have
> been vastly different if it had been made back in
> the
> '70s. I probably would have preferred that version.
>
I haven't seen it yet, but I understand that instead
of Sun and Moon Goddesses watching the mortals Rivette
has substituted ghosts.

The original, BTW, was to have starred Leslie Caron
and Albert Finney.




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12367


From: Damien Bona
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:30pm
Subject: Re: OT reminiscing about Upper West Side movie theatres (continued)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:

> What was the Metro before it became the Metro?
> g


The Metro was the Midtown 99th, which was a second-run house and then
a porno house. I seem to remember that it was featured in a movie
from the 60s or 70s, but can't recall what (a Woody Allen picture,
perhaps).
12368


From: Robert Keser
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:40pm
Subject: Re: Access to Rouge
 
> > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "joe_mcelhaney"
> wrote:
> > > Would someone please tell me how to get access to the new > >
> issue of Rouge?

You could try the direct link posted in today's Green Cine Daily:
http://daily.greencine.com/
an essential resource which ALSO includes a link to a_film_by today.

--Robert Keser
12369


From: Travis Miles
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:34pm
Subject: Re: Bresson's Genesis/Les modèles de Pickpocket
 
Anthology Film Archives (NY) will be giving LES MODELES a week's run in late
September/early October of this year, as part of a Babette Mangolte
retrospective. It seems there are no plans as of now to release it in a home
viewing format. It's a fascinating piece.

> Is LES MODELES DE PICKPOCKET available anywhere? I saw the aged but
> still striking Balsan at a Cinémathèque screening of LANCELOT--an
> emanation unlike all other celebrity encounters I've experienced.
>
> PWC
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
12370


From: Damien Bona
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:40pm
Subject: Re: Dennis Morgan (was One Sunday Afternoon)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> I've always had a sneaking fondness for Dennis Morgan.
> Lots of people just do not like Dennis Morgan . . . . His
performances in musicals > like "Tear Gas Squad" and "It's a Great
Feeling" certainly added to the supply
> of joy in the world.
>

I've always liked Dennis Morgan, although I admit it may be the
simple fact that I find him very sexy (great smile). But beyond
that, I think he's terrific in Walsh's Cheyenne and Daves's The Very
Thought Of You.

And he and Jack Carson (another very underrated performer) made a
wonderful team.
12371


From: Damien Bona
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:52pm
Subject: Preminger The Sadist (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
I've always been struck by, despite all the reports of Preminger
being a complete monster on the set, how many actors returned to work
with him again, incluing Henry Fonda, Peter Lawford, David Niven,
Franchot Tone, Patrick O'Neal and Burgess Meredith who made 6
pictures with the director.

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "cairnsdavid1967"
wrote:
> > > He also bluntly described Farrow as "a sadist".
> > >
> > He described Preminger the same way. In "The RKO
> > Years" Jean Simmons talks about how Mitchum stood up
> > to preminger when Preminger kept demandinding repeated
> > takes of his slapping her in "Angel Face." And
> > Preminger wanted Mitchum to REALLY slap her.
>
> Yeah, Otto's a well known bastard. My favourite line on him
was "Otto
> had the sense of humour of a guillotine" - Vincent Price.
> The Lubitsch bio reports Otto hijacking Ernst's last film after his
> heart attack, with a blatant lie about it being Lubitsch's wish.
> After the disaster of Otto's last film for Ernst, his friends
thought
> it unlikely he'd have been bequeathed another movie.
>
> Feel sorry for Mia with a dad like Farrow.
>
> > > THE CLOCK is a real good film. George MacReady as
> > > Charles Laughton's
> > > male secretary - there's suggestive casting for you.
> > >
> > In the book it was more than merely "suggestive."
>
> Goodie! A friend just bought this, I'll read it after she's
finished.
12372


From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:07pm
Subject: RE: The Greatest Films Never Made
 
> I haven't seen it yet, but I understand that instead
> of Sun and Moon Goddesses watching the mortals Rivette
> has substituted ghosts.

You're right, but Rivette is kind of adamant about not
calling them ghosts. He calls them "revenants", people
in a sort of limbo state between life and death, "returning"
back to finish something left undone.

> The original, BTW, was to have starred Leslie Caron
> and Albert Finney.

And then he wanted to film it with Leslie Caron and
Maurice Pialat! And then with himself as Julien!
12373


From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:42pm
Subject: Re: Access to Rouge
 
Thanks for your help, Bob and Jess. Got it now.
12374


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:44pm
Subject: Re: The Greatest Films Never Made (Bresson?)
 
--- Fred Camper wrote:

>
> Does anyone know the details of Bresson's proposed
> "Adam and Eve" film,
> a proposal to producer Dino de Laurentiis when he
> wanted to assign
> several directors (including Welles for Noah's Ark)
> to make "The Bible."
> I seem to recall that Bresson submitted a script
> with no dialogue, which
> helped convince Dino that maybe employing these
> high-falutin' artists
> wasn't such a great idea from a box office point of
> view, but I may have
> this completely wrong.
>
Actually it wasn't Adam and Eve at all but before
that. Bresson wanted to film the creation of the
world. No dialogue, just sights and sounds. Even after
DeLaurentis "went another war" with "The Bible,"
Bresson contemplated doing "Creation" on his own as a
freature film.



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12375


From:
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:48pm
Subject: Re: Bresson's Genesis/Les modèles de Pickpocket
 
Patrick Ciccone wrote:

>Humbert Balsan, Gauvain in LANCELOT DU LAC, says that Bresson shot
>tests for the Genesis film with some of the zoological contingent of
>what would have been the Noah's ark segment.

Fascinating! Have these tests ever been shown publicly? Do they still
exist? I learned recently that Welles shot, on video, what Gary Graver describes
as "lighting and makeup tests" for "King Lear" in 1985. They were transferred
to 35 mm B&W, and Gary says they looked great... but he believes them to be
lost. The Munich Filmmuseum, which houses a majority of the unfinished Welles
films/fragments, doesn't have them, at least.

There are so many great unmade films I long to see. High on the list would
be Jerry Lewis' "The Catcher in the Rye." ("The Day the Clown Cried" doesn't
qualify, as it was made, just unseen.)

Peter
12376


From: Damien Bona
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:14pm
Subject: Re: Bresson's Genesis/Les modèles de Pickpocket
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
>
> There are so many great unmade films I long to see. High on the
list would
> be Jerry Lewis' "The Catcher in the Rye." ("The Day the Clown
Cried" doesn't
> qualify, as it was made, just unseen.)
>

Wait, Jerry Lewis actually wanted to make a movie out of The Catcher
In The Rye?

I think that's one of those novels that's better off left unfilmed,
leaving us all with our adolescent visions of Holden Caulfield et al.
But if anyone could have done justice to the material it was probably
Robert Mulligan.
-- Damien
12377


From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:17pm
Subject: Re: Preminger The Sadist (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
> I've always been struck by, despite all the reports of Preminger
> being a complete monster on the set, how many actors returned to
work with him again, incluing Henry Fonda, Peter Lawford, David
Niven, Franchot Tone, Patrick O'Neal and Burgess Meredith who made 6
> pictures with the director.


Has there been a major director whose reputation has suffered more,
due to a combination of his real-life personality and celebrity
status, than Preminger's? One would expect that, two decades after
his death, some of these attitudes towards Preminger would have died
down and that the work would begin to be taken more seriously.
Instead, more talk gets generated and more ink gets spilled over how
he was mean to Marilyn Monroe or Jean Simmons than discusses what,
for example, may be aesthetically or politically significant about
films like ADVISE AND CONSENT, CARMEN JONES, EXODUS, IN HARM'S WAY,
SUCH GOOD FRIENDS, WHIRLPOOL, etc. I certainly take a perverse
pleasure in hearing the anecdotes and I'm glad it was never me he was
yelling at. But I wonder if the talk of his personality at the
EXPENSE of the work will ever stop?
12378


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:24pm
Subject: Re: Re: Preminger The Sadist (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
> Has there been a major director whose reputation has suffered more,
> due to a combination of his real-life personality and celebrity
> status, than Preminger's? One would expect that, two decades after
> his death, some of these attitudes towards Preminger would have died
> down and that the work would begin to be taken more seriously.
> Instead, more talk gets generated and more ink gets spilled over how
> he was mean to Marilyn Monroe or Jean Simmons than discusses what,
> for example, may be aesthetically or politically significant about
> films like ADVISE AND CONSENT, CARMEN JONES, EXODUS, IN HARM'S WAY,
> SUCH GOOD FRIENDS, WHIRLPOOL, etc.

Yeah, this gets me too. Sometimes it seems as if even more people are
dismissive of Preminger now then they were before the auteurists got
hold of him. - Dan
12379


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:28pm
Subject: Re: Re: Dennis Morgan (was One Sunday Afternoon)
 
--- Damien Bona wrote:

>
> I've always liked Dennis Morgan, although I admit it
> may be the
> simple fact that I find him very sexy (great smile).
> But beyond
> that, I think he's terrific in Walsh's Cheyenne and
> Daves's The Very
> Thought Of You.
>
He never quite makes it past"plasant" for me, but he's
quite good in my greatest of all "Guilty Pleasures" --
"Thank Your Lucky Stars"

> And he and Jack Carson (another very underrated
> performer) made a
> wonderful team.
>
Jack Carson is a profoundly important screen actor.
His performances in "Mildred Pierce" and "A Star is
Born" should be studied far more closely than anything
Brando ever did.




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12380


From:
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:32pm
Subject: Re: Re: Bresson's Genesis/Les modèles de Pickpocket
 
Damien Bona wrote:

>Wait, Jerry Lewis actually wanted to make a movie out of The Catcher
>In The Rye?

I've heard for years that he wanted to; I hope the story's not apocryphal.
Maybe some of the Lewis scholars on this group (Bill, Jonathan, Brent) can
confirm or deny?

I'd gladly take either a Lewis or Mulligan adaptation of the novel.

More unmade films I long for:
Welles' "Mercedes" (his final, great script)
Hawks' "When It's Hot, Play It Cool" (the oil exploration story Fred mentions)
Preminger's "Open Question"
Tati's "Confusion"
McCarey's "Adam and Eve"

Peter
12381


From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:38pm
Subject: Re: Bresson's Genesis/Les modèles de Pickpocket
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:

> Tati's "Confusion"

An amendment to that, from Jonathan Rosenbaum's wonderful
recollection of his experiences working with Tati, we get that Tati
(in a moment of inspiration) wanted to use Hulot's accidental death
(a prop gun at a TV station is replaced with a real one) as an
opening "gag," and there would have been all kinds of THE TROUBLE
WITH HARRY-ish bits about the body being in the way, what to do with
it, etc.

That would have been something to see.

-Jaime
12382


From: Robert Keser
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:45pm
Subject: Re: Dennis Morgan (was One Sunday Afternoon)
 
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> > I've always had a sneaking fondness for Dennis Morgan.
> > . . . . His performances in musicals like "Tear Gas Squad"
>and "It's a Great Feeling" certainly added to the supply
of joy in the world.

Tear Gas Squad is a musical??

If you ask me, Dennis Morgan and James Craig did quite a lot to
freshen up Ginger Rogers in Kitty Foyle, who was already showing
signs of the solidifying that soon became visible in Tender Comrade,
Lady in the Dark, Magnificent Doll, and The Barkleys of Broadway.

Morgan also acquitted himself more than honorably in Florey's rip-
snorting God Is My Co-Pilot, a montage-a-thon second to none at
Warners.

--Robert Keser
12383


From: Damien Bona
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:44pm
Subject: Re: Jack Carson (was Dennis Morgan)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> Jack Carson is a profoundly important screen actor.
> His performances in "Mildred Pierce" and "A Star is
> Born" should be studied far more closely than anything
> Brando ever did.

I couldn't agree with you more, David. Carson had no peer when it
came to exposing the ugly, weak soul to be found underneath
quintessential American gladhanding and hucksterism. He would have
made a wonderful Babbitt. And in Mildred Pierce, he and the
marvelously unctuous Zachary Scott make two of the most remarkably
rancid lead male characters ever. (Has any other movie from the
Hollywood studio days portray men in a more disagreeable light?)

And don't forget Carson's superb work in The Tarnished Anngels.

-- Damien
12384


From: Damien Bona
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:53pm
Subject: Re: Dennis Morgan (was One Sunday Afternoon)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Keser" wrote:
>
> Tear Gas Squad is a musical??


It's where the Andre Previn/Comden and Green song "Baby, You Knock Me
Out" came from.
12385


From: Travis Miles
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:04pm
Subject: Re: The Greatest Films Never Made (Bresson?)
 
Does this bear any relation to Malick's Creation project? I guess the
closest anybody got to this sort of film was Brakhage.


On 7/13/04 2:44 PM, "David Ehrenstein" wrote:

> --- Fred Camper wrote:
>
>>
>> Does anyone know the details of Bresson's proposed
>> "Adam and Eve" film,
>> a proposal to producer Dino de Laurentiis when he
>> wanted to assign
>> several directors (including Welles for Noah's Ark)
>> to make "The Bible."
>> I seem to recall that Bresson submitted a script
>> with no dialogue, which
>> helped convince Dino that maybe employing these
>> high-falutin' artists
>> wasn't such a great idea from a box office point of
>> view, but I may have
>> this completely wrong.
>>
> Actually it wasn't Adam and Eve at all but before
> that. Bresson wanted to film the creation of the
> world. No dialogue, just sights and sounds. Even after
> DeLaurentis "went another war" with "The Bible,"
> Bresson contemplated doing "Creation" on his own as a
> freature film.
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
12386


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:07pm
Subject: Re: Preminger The Sadist (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "joe_mcelhaney"
wrote:
>
> Has there been a major director whose reputation has suffered more,
> due to a combination of his real-life personality and celebrity
> status, than Preminger's? One would expect that, two decades after
> his death, some of these attitudes towards Preminger would have
died
> down and that the work would begin to be taken more seriously.
> Instead, more talk gets generated and more ink gets spilled over
how
> he was mean to Marilyn Monroe or Jean Simmons than discusses what,
> for example, may be aesthetically or politically significant about
> films like ADVISE AND CONSENT, CARMEN JONES, EXODUS, IN HARM'S WAY,
> SUCH GOOD FRIENDS, WHIRLPOOL, etc. I certainly take a perverse
> pleasure in hearing the anecdotes and I'm glad it was never me he
was
> yelling at. But I wonder if the talk of his personality at the
> EXPENSE of the work will ever stop?


The work is and has been taken seriously by auteurists who, as
far as I know, rarely if ever wrote about his "sadism" on the set.
For others, who take neither directors nor their films seriously,
there is no reason to talk about him at all except for amusing
anecdotes concerning his personality and behavior.

Film directing is the ideal profession for people who are power-
hungry and like to dominate other people. Sadistic, or borderline
sadistic, behavior on the set is consequently more the rule than the
exception. The director can browbeat, humiliate, even physically
mistreat actors in public and get away with it(e.g. Lang deliberately
stepping on Anna Lee's bare feet with his heavy boots while filming
HANGMEN ALSO DIE and making her put her hand through a real glass
window: "I hit a smaller vein and there was a lot of blood," she
recalled -- after which he licked her hand "like an old vampire").
There are countless stories of sadistic behavior by directors. How
many Jean Renoir types are there among filmmakers?

JPC
12387


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:13pm
Subject: Re: Jack Carson (was Dennis Morgan)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
> wrote:
> > Jack Carson is a profoundly important screen actor.
> > His performances in "Mildred Pierce" and "A Star is
> > Born" should be studied far more closely than anything
> > Brando ever did.
>
> >
> And don't forget Carson's superb work in The Tarnished Anngels.
>
> -- Damien

And don't forget Carson's singing "Run, run, run when you see a
pretty woman" with a Jamaican accent in "ROMANCE ON THE HIGH SEAS"

JPC
12388


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:29pm
Subject: Re: Preminger The Sadist (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
--- Damien Bona wrote:
> I've always been struck by, despite all the reports
> of Preminger
> being a complete monster on the set, how many actors
> returned to work
> with him again, incluing Henry Fonda, Peter Lawford,
> David Niven,
> Franchot Tone, Patrick O'Neal and Burgess Meredith
> who made 6
> pictures with the director.
>
I trust you recall what Sternberg said about actors.




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12389


From: Richard Modiano
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:40pm
Subject: Re: Preminger The Sadist (Was: auteur remake auteur)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
"I trust you recall what Sternberg said about actors."

Here's what John Wayne said about Sternberg: "I was scraed shitless
of him." I don't think he was joking.

Richard
12390


From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:18pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 681
 
Auturo Ripstein as been at the SD Latino Film Festival a few times.
You could contact Ethan who runs the festival. I'm sure he would know.
ethan@m...


On Jul 12, 2004, at 2:20 PM, a_film_by@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> From: "joe_mcelhaney"
> Subject: THE BEGINNING AND THE END (Arturo Ripstein)
>
> And is there any interesting writing on Ripstein anywhere, outside of
> interviews with him?
12391


From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:27pm
Subject: Re: Rocha
 
Rocha has much to do with the political paths (fate?) of Brazil. That's his
main concern with his films. In his writing, he used jargon and methodology
(dialectics) taken from Marx. But the starting point for his career is the
discovery and despair-with-this-discovery that the lower brazilian classes
will never inssurect and dethrone the ruling class. So he thought the best
thing for the country, since there will never be a revolution, would be some
intellectual leading aristocrats to do good. "The role of the intelectual",
or "the role of a character that has to choose between gun, faith or
reform", is the main subject of his films. Then he himself chose/invented an
immanent religion with three christs (one indian, one black, one white) and
those christs immersed themselves into the crowd - that's actually the final
shot of one of the best films of all times, A IDADE DA TERRA (Age Of The
Earth).
Of course it's way more complex than that, but these are my 2 cents.
ruy

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ehrenstein"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [a_film_by] Rocha


> --- Gabe Klinger wrote:
>
> > Rocha is an artist. Straub and Godard too were able
> > to look at Rocha's work and take
> > a lot from it, but they were more eloquent with
> > their findings than Rocha could ever
> > articulate about the influences of his own work.
> > That doesn't detract from his art, but
> > I think that Rocha never had to read Marx to apply
> > Marxism in his beliefs.
> >
> Rocha's a strange figure. Never saw the one he made
> with Pierre Clementi, but quite impressed with his
> Leaud-starred "Der Leone Have Sept Cabecas." I don't
> find his films have much to do with Marx.
>
>
>
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>
12392


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:36pm
Subject: Re: Re: Bresson's Genesis/Les modèles de Pickpocket
 
--- ptonguette@a... wrote:
> Damien Bona wrote:
>
> >Wait, Jerry Lewis actually wanted to make a movie
> out of The Catcher
> >In The Rye?
>
> I've heard for years that he wanted to; I hope the
> story's not apocryphal.
> Maybe some of the Lewis scholars on this group
> (Bill, Jonathan, Brent) can
> confirm or deny?
>
He did indeed. He's gone on the record about his
unsuccessful attempts to woo Salinger.
>



12393


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:13pm
Subject: RE: The Greatest Films Never Made
 
--- Jonathan Takagi wrote:

>
> You're right, but Rivette is kind of adamant about
> not
> calling them ghosts. He calls them "revenants",
> people
> in a sort of limbo state between life and death,
> "returning"
> back to finish something left undone.
>
Bu that's exactly what ghosts do -- like the ones in
"Phantom Ladies Over Paris."

> > The original, BTW, was to have starred Leslie
> Caron
> > and Albert Finney.
>
> And then he wanted to film it with Leslie Caron and
> Maurice Pialat! And then with himself as Julien!
>
Curioser and curioser.

He played a priest quite effectively in "Jeanne La Pucelle"



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12394


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:36pm
Subject: Re: Re:_Bresson's_Genesis/Les_modèles_de_Pickpocket
 
--- Damien Bona wrote:

>
> Wait, Jerry Lewis actually wanted to make a movie
> out of The Catcher
> In The Rye?
>
Can't you just see holden yelling "Oh
LAAAAAYDEEEEEE!!!!!

> I think that's one of those novels that's better off
> left unfilmed,
> leaving us all with our adolescent visions of Holden
> Caulfield et al.
> But if anyone could have done justice to the
> material it was probably
> Robert Mulligan.

I've always hated it. I thought Holden was a creep.
Never understood the Salinger cult. Liked the short
story "Just Before the War with Eskimos" but that's
about it.



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12395


From: joey lindsey
Date: Wed Jul 14, 2004 0:44am
Subject: Re: Re: Non-existent lines (was contemporary language in old...)
 
I've been trying for years to figure out if I made up the following
scene or really saw it in a movie.

Probably black and white. Leading man with mustache goes to bar and
orders milk. A barfly says "Would that be mother's milk?"
The leading man says, "How about your sister's?" They proceed to
fight. Leading man is later having his wounds tended by leading lady.

sound familiar to anyone? I blatantly immitate this scene in a script
I'm writing, and figured I should know where I saw it lo those years of
yore.


joey lindsey
12396


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:13am
Subject: Re: The Greatest Films Never Made
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> --- Jonathan Takagi wrote:
>
> >
> > You're right, but Rivette is kind of adamant about
> > not
> > calling them ghosts. He calls them "revenants",
> > people
> > in a sort of limbo state between life and death,
> > "returning"
> > back to finish something left undone.
> >
> Bu that's exactly what ghosts do -- like the ones in
> "Phantom Ladies Over Paris."
>



"fantomes" (ghosts) and "revenants" mean absolutely the same
thing to most French people,although "revenants" does seem to stress
the idea that they "come back" but so does the other word ( if they
weren't coming back they wouldn't be ghosts).
> > > The original, BTW, was to have starred Leslie
> > Caron
> > > and Albert Finney.
> >
> > And then he wanted to film it with Leslie Caron and
> > Maurice Pialat! And then with himself as Julien!
> >
> Curioser and curioser.
>
> He played a priest quite effectively in "Jeanne La Pucelle"
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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> Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
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12397


From:
Date: Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:43pm
Subject: Re: The Greatest Films Never Made
 
Have always wanted to see Sternberg's proposal to Mary Pickford: a movie
about a blind woman, who has an operation that lets her see. And it shows how the
whole world looks to someone who sees it for the first time. What a poetic
concept.
Also wish Curtis Harrington had been able to film H. P. Lovecraft's fantasy
novella, "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" (1931), as he wanted.
And Fritz Lang had been able to make his 1950's film about rockets - Lang
could have made amazing sf films during the 1950's boom.

Mike Grost
12398


From: Noel Vera
Date: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:45am
Subject: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
> Van Sant's Psycho

It's actually an interesting exercise. I was involved
in a kind of performance piece titled "Psycho
Squared," where my identical twin brother and I sat
down and dissected the original and Van Sant's remake
as they played on a pair of video screens. I thought
the results were rather illuminating, even if maybe
the gimmick with the twins was a bit much.

Some of our observations:

- The remake may be a mostly shot-by-shot copy, but
the length of the scenes varied, sometimes
considerably. There were times we had to pause the
original to let the remake catch up, times we had to
pause the remake. You almost noticed Van Sant
unconsciously (or consciously) trying to vary the
pacing of different scenes, as if trying to avoid a
studiously faithful copy of the original.

- Mort Mills' patrol officer was far more anonymous
and insectlike and ultimately frightening than James
Remar's (who, after all, was a known character actor
doing a cameo).

- Chris Doyle captures the grimy airlessness of
American motel rooms, using what looks to be dimly
available light. It's an admirable achievement, but it
only points up Hitchcock's tendency to brightly light
his sets, particularly the motel bathroom where every
tiled and porcelained surface was spotlessly clean.
Hitchcock, it seemed to me, demanded this unnervingly
hygienic presentation, all the better to desecrate it
with blood and fear.

- The crucial talk between Norman and Marion goes by
far more swiftly in Van Sant's than in Hitchcock--as
if Van Sant, though he knows how important the scene
is, knows we've already run through it forever, and
wants to get it over with. A mistake, I thought. Anne
Heche holds her own, though, against memories of Janet
Leigh in the scene.

- We thought Vince Vaughn's Norman's masturbating to
Marion Crane undressing was a mistake--sexual release
suggests a release of tensions, a partial satisfaction
of desires, and hence one less motivation to do what
he eventually does. Of course in one sense he doesn't
do it...but you get what I mean...

- Overall Perkins captures Norman's vulnerability far
more successfully, while Vaughn emphasizes his
infantile creepiness. After all is said and done, I
prefer Perkins' attack--it made his downfall all the
more horrific.

- On the other hand, I thought Vaughn's vamping
William Macy's Arbogast was a hilarious success: tall
sweatered young man pressing close to dilapidated
milquetoast, who doesn't like it one bit but has to
smile, nevertheless.

- Simon Oakland as the psychiatrist delivers what has
famously been called Hitchcock's worse ever scene;
what's interesting is that Hitchcock and Oaklan
handles that scene better than Van Sant and Forster
does (in other words, it's possible to make a 'bad'
scene worse). Oakland treats it like a pitch,
delivering dry facts that we already know with all the
energy and gusto of a used car salesman, in a pace
calculated to keep us from falling asleep. Forster
mulls over every word and syllable as if it was his
only chance to make an impression in the picture
(which in fact it was, and he does--a bad one).

Worst scene or no, we did conclude that the scene had
an important function: it gave us the conventional
wisdom, the pat answers, what is considered to be the
final solution; it comforted us with the impresson
that everything has been solved and accounted for.
Then we meet Bates for one more time.





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12399


From: Michael Worrall
Date: Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:45am
Subject: That's "Victor/Victoria" ( Was:Non-existent lines )
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, joey lindsey
wrote:
> I've been trying for years to figure out if I made up the following
> scene or really saw it in a movie.
>
> Probably black and white. Leading man with mustache goes
to bar and
> orders milk. A barfly says "Would that be mother's milk?"
> The leading man says, "How about your sister's?" They
proceed to
> fight. Leading man is later having his wounds tended by
leading lady.

It's actually in color and 'Scope -- shot by Dick Bush, who also
shot a few films for Russell-- and the man is James Gardner
going into a bar to pick a fight in order to retain his "masculine"
identity. The leading "lady" is Julie Andrews.

"Speaking of overworked jaws..".
"It wasn't a real horse, just two waiters in an outfit".

Michael Worrall
> joey lindsey
12400


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:58am
Subject: Re: Re: auteur remake auteur
 
--- Noel Vera wrote:

>
> - The remake may be a mostly shot-by-shot copy, but
> the length of the scenes varied, sometimes
> considerably. There were times we had to pause the
> original to let the remake catch up, times we had to
> pause the remake. You almost noticed Van Sant
> unconsciously (or consciously) trying to vary the
> pacing of different scenes, as if trying to avoid a
> studiously faithful copy of the original.
>
>
Don't forget the ultimate "Psycho" remake in Joe
Dante's "Looney Tunes Back in Action"

It stars Bugs of course, screaming in the shower as
he's done in a million other films, but this time as
Marion Crane.

Best of all is the close-up of Bugs pouring choclate
sypup down the drain, just before the close-up of him
playing dead a la Janet Leigh.



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