Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:16am
Subject: Re: Freudian slips in H'wd Fillms (Was: Tea and Sympathy (& Lust for Life)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
> >
> I don't think Freud acknowledged the existence of meaningless
slips,
> slthough I could be wrong. Tracy's slip is very funny, but
(because?)
> it is pretty overdetermined. I'll check Cavell and get back to you.
Tracy also stumbles over "competitor" when he is upset, but this
is too obvious, too first-degree to qualify as a Freudian slip. Are
there meaningless slips? Yes and No. This was was meaningful, but in
a non-Freudian way. A cigar sometimes...
JPC
12902
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:18am
Subject: Re: OT: Krazy Kat (was Gayness Conquers All)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
> When I was a kid in the mid-60s, there was a very cheap Krazy Kat
> cartoon series on TV in which Krazy was very clearly female.
>
> On the other hand, Columbia put out a series of Krazy Kat cartooms
in
> the 30s in which Krazy looked nothing like Herriman's character,
> resembling instead a big-eyed Fleischer creature. In these 'toons,
> Krazy was made into a guy cat and he had a girlfriend.
>
> -- Damien
Both shameful desecration of the original strip.
12903
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:40am
Subject: Re: Television that we like
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Filipe Furtado"
> Jaime, a small tip: when it comes to TV it's hard to judge anything
by the
> early episodes. Usually a show takes most of it's first season to
get really
> shaped. (which is one of the more interesting aspects of TV, the
fact that
> we watch something while it's being made; it's a far less closed
process of
> filmmaking than movies).
Yes, I've thought about this a lot. I haven't dropped those shows
entirely, just put them a bit farther down the pile. Since this shit
job I have steals a big chunk of my day, my movie-watching time has
become extremely precious to me. When people say, "Oh, [such and
such] gets really good around the fifth season," it doesn't help
matters because unless it's a series of stand-alone episodes
("Simpsons," "King of the Hill," most sitcoms) or a long, long, long
running series (like a soap), it feels necessary to watch everything
in its proper order. Otherwise you lose the threads. The shows I'm
talking about aren't quite like Feuillade serials but they're close.
>
> I think that we relate in a diferent way to TV images and film
images (and
> it's not only a matter of seeing a film in a theatre or TV) so it
doesn't
> feel very fair to judge then by the same criteria. They aren't the same
> thing, this mistake made many people look at TV with the same sort of
> superiority that some literature people look at movies.
I like something if it's good. But I know what you mean, this was
brought up in a class I took at NYU.
-Jaime
12904
From:
Date: Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:42pm
Subject: Re: Television that we like
A hearty seconding to Damien Bona's post on Curtis Harrington's work on
Dynasty and The Colbys.
Another outstanding episodic TV show by Harrington: the "Kill Dan Tanna!"
(1979) episode of "Vega$". This was a strange, dream-like work that flashes back
to the Vietnam war, and gives it a visual treatment unlike anything else ever
seen. It is not "realistic", but it is haunting and visually creative. The
episode is far from being any sort of diatribe. Instead, it is a work of
Harrington poetry.
Mike Grost
12905
From:
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:39am
Subject: Re: Television we like
It's been a bum year, but Chappelle's Show and The Office get the
highest thumbs-up. Jaime, stick with Buffy: season 1 is not so great,
but 2 and 3 are the best. Speaking of TV, I just watched the
miniseries version of PENNIES FROM HEAVEN, and boy is it great.
Misogynist, creepy, occasionally cruddy-looking, and great.
Sam
12906
From: Craig Keller
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:52am
Subject: Re: Re: Television we like
> It's been a bum year, but Chappelle's Show and The Office get the
> highest thumbs-up.
I concur -- and don't miss the new season of 'Da Ali G Show' on HBO,
which started again on Sunday night and should be repeating throughout
the week. Ali mimes a double-cock-suck in front of Sam Donaldson (too
long to explain here), Borat gets two white Southern wine-tasting
aficionados to lament the extinction of slavery, and Bruno talks
"penises in the mouth" with a tightly-wound pastor whose specialty is
converting homosexuals to the doctrine of the Lord.
While on the subject of television and tele-auteurs, it's my feeling
that the most important one to emerge from America in the last twenty
years is Roseanne Barr. Every time I watch that show on Nick at Nite
these days, I come away astounded.
Respek.
cmk.
12907
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:15am
Subject: Re: Television that we like
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
"Another outstanding episodic TV show by Harrington: the "Kill Dan
Tanna!" (1979) episode of "Vega$". This was a strange, dream-like
work that flashes back to the Vietnam war, and gives it a visual
treatment unlike anything else ever seen. It is not "realistic", but
it is haunting and visually creative. The episode is far from being
any sort of diatribe. Instead, it is a work of Harrington poetry."
I was trying to remember the name of that episode, thanks for
mentioning it Mike. You're quite right, it's solidly in the
Harrington oeuvre.
Altman did some interesting television work. I saw him at a question-
and-answer after a screening of THE LONG GOODBYE and someone asked
him why he made so few genre works. He answered that he'd done a lot
of genre movies: thrillers for ALFRED HITCHCOCK PRESENTS, war stories
for COMBAT and westerns for BONANZA.
Richard
12908
From: joey lindsey
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:50am
Subject: Re: If you have time to waste...
>
> Reminds me of John Waters' even more terrific coffee table book of
> photography (the name escapes me).
>
> Kevin John
>
"Director's Cut" is the name of the one I have. It's big and pink and
next to me. I think it's what you're talking about - I highly recommend
it. Waters' still-shots-from-films are better than most
flims-from-still-shots (I'm talking about you, Marker. Le Jette was
ok, but that's just the one.)
joey lindsey
12909
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:27am
Subject: David Chase (Was: Television that we like)
> Other memorable anthology wonders:
>
> The 1980s "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" episode "Enough Rope for Two",
> which marked David Chase's directorial debut.
This AHP episode is quite good, and marked Chase in my mind as a
director to watch. All I've ever seen of "The Sopranos" is the first
two episodes: the first, directed by Chase, is excellent, very visually
expressive. The second, only written by Chase, seemed to have a
different sensibility, and didn't impress me as much. - Dan
12910
From:
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 0:52am
Subject: Re: OT: Krazy Kat
In a message dated 7/21/04 5:52:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
a_film_by@yahoogroups.com writes:
<< Krazy Kat is BOTH male and female, at the same time. Herriman made this
very
explicit. So Krazy is like the original humans, according to Plato, before
we
split apart into two sexes. >>
I think that's a fascinating reading, but if that were the case Krazy would
be sufficient unto him/herself, since according to Plato the desire and pursuit
of the whole (romantic love) only began after the halves were split. Which
would go against the general sad geometry of frustration in KK, the strip.
I think Ignatz is "co-dependent" beyond mere meanness, too. Witness his
reaction when KK's affections stray in the June, 1930, story series.
brent
12911
From: Aaron Graham
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:14am
Subject: Re: David Chase (Was: Television that we like)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt
> > Other memorable anthology wonders:
> >
> > The 1980s "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" episode "Enough Rope for
Two",
> > which marked David Chase's directorial debut.
>
> This AHP episode is quite good, and marked Chase in my mind as a
> director to watch. All I've ever seen of "The Sopranos" is the
first
> two episodes: the first, directed by Chase, is excellent, very
visually
> expressive. The second, only written by Chase, seemed to have a
different sensibility, and didn't impress me as much. - Dan
I thought this season of "The Sopranos" was as good as that first
episode. Although I agree with you that the early follow-ups to that
original pilot left something to be desired, by the fifth or sixth
episode (I believe called "College"), I think it started to hit its
stride and found its bearings.
There seems to be a pattern to my favorite "Sopranos" episodes,
they're usually written by Chase and directed by John Patterson --
who has directed every season finale throughout the five year run.
I later found out that Chase went to film school with Patterson, and
therefore I think he's ideally the best director on "the Sopranos".
There's a last season episode of "The Rockford Files" called "Love is
the Word", written by Chase and directed by Patterson, that is just
great -- and another "Rockford" during that season that initially was
a pilot for a show that roughly was "Mean Streets" set in New
Jersey. The episode was called "Just a Coupla Guys", and involved a
mobster named Tony with domestic troubles.
Although I haven't seen it, I've read the pilot for Chase's other
main TV series "Almost Grown", and it sounded wonderful.
Tim Daly, from the "AHP" episode, starred as a radio DJ and thus
allowed Chase to play/reference rock and roll music as he often does.
Daly also appeared on "the Sopranos" this year as well.
-Aaron
12912
From:
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:22am
Subject: OT: Krazy Kat
Also
<< There is definitely a racial allegory here. Herriman was a light skinned
African-American who spent his whole life "passing" for white. >>
I think anyone who has a personal experience of "passing", whether because of
race (I'd heard Herriman's was mixed) or sexuality, has by virtue of that
simultaneously inside/outside position been granted some insight into the largely
arbitrary rules that govern societies and the construction of personal
identity. I suspect Krazy's gender slippages may be a displaced expression of this
insight on Herriman's part.
None of which is to deny the aspect of racial allegory you identify.
brent
12913
From:
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:03am
Subject: Re: Re: Television that we like
Aaron, I appreciate the rundown on the Dante "Amazing Stories," and thanks to
Bill for further information about Dante's television work. I know "The
Second Civil War," which I love, but the other projects you mention are unfamiliar
to me for the simple reason that I've never been able to locate them on tape.
Do either of you Dante buffs know this project?
http://imdb.com/title/tt0142973/combined
Bill:
>You can add Jack Arnold to the outstanding directors of Peter Gunn,
>and particularly of Mr. Lucky, a series he produced for Edwards,
>which I loved
I wish I could see some of "Mr. Lucky"; again, I don't think it's ever been
released on tape and I've never caught any re-runs. It would be wonderful if
Edwards could return to "Peter Gunn"; I've heard rumblings that he's trying to
launch a new run of it. Of course, past incarnations include the feature
"Gunn" (unseen by me, Dave Kehr considers it a great Edwards film) and the 1989 TV
movie "Peter Gunn" (seen by me, it's terrific and was itself, I think,
originally conceived as a pilot for a new incarnation of the show.)
>This is the rule with
>episodic: the producer-writer (it's usually both, though not in Joe's
>case) is the auteur
This would seem supported if nothing else by "Alfred Hitchcock Presents,"
though I sure wish I could see some more episodes to be certain! I may have told
this story before, but when I was a Hitchcock mad 8 year old, I got up at 5
in the morning on Saturdays to catch re-runs of "The Alfred Hitchcock Hour."
Boy, how I wish I would have taped some of those! I can't find that
incarnation of the Hitch show ANYWHERE - and I'm dying to see Norman Lloyd's "The Jar."
Peter
12914
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:07am
Subject: Re: What is an auteur? (Was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence
>
> All of Minnelli's melodramas rely heavily on caricature. You may
> laugh at it, or with it, or try to ignore it, or find it sublime
> (=auteurism).
>
> JPC
Rohmer found it beautiful -- in Minnelli, in Tashlin, in Hitchcock.
12915
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:10am
Subject: Re: Television that we like
I managed to catch and
> record the other episode Dante did for it entitled "Quiet, Please"
> with Cary Elwes. It was a wilderness horror story concerning a
serial killer.
Pant! Gasp! Drool!
12916
From: Aaron Graham
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:15am
Subject: Re: Television that we like
> Do either of you Dante buffs know this project?
>
> http://imdb.com/title/tt0142973/combined
I don't really know much, the brief research online came up with the
slight tidbit that Dante originally wanted Christopher Lee in the Rod
Taylor role.
> This would seem supported if nothing else by "Alfred Hitchcock
Presents,"
> though I sure wish I could see some more episodes to be certain! I
may have told
> this story before, but when I was a Hitchcock mad 8 year old, I got
up at 5
> in the morning on Saturdays to catch re-runs of "The Alfred
Hitchcock Hour."
> Boy, how I wish I would have taped some of those! I can't find
that
> incarnation of the Hitch show ANYWHERE - and I'm dying to see
Norman Lloyd's "The Jar."
>
> Peter
Over at davisdvd.com, there's a rumor that Universal is
releasing "Hitchcock Presents" this winter. Hopefully, the "Hitchcock
Hour" will follow shortly behind if this rumor is true.
On another television/auteur note, does anyone know how the Monte
Hellman-directed pilot of "Baretta" is? I know it's on dvd, but I
also know that Hellman didn't get along well on the set and may have
been replaced.
-Aaron
12917
From: Aaron Graham
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:18am
Subject: Re: Television that we like
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> I managed to catch and
> > record the other episode Dante did for it entitled "Quiet,
Please"
> > with Cary Elwes. It was a wilderness horror story concerning a
> serial killer.
>
> Pant! Gasp! Drool!
If you're interested in this, let me know and I'll make sure I still
have it - I could make you a copy. It'd be an honor as I greatly
admire much of your published work, Bill!
-Aaron
12918
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:19am
Subject: Re: Television that we like
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
> Aaron, I appreciate the rundown on the Dante "Amazing Stories," and
thanks to
> Bill for further information about Dante's television work. I
know "The
> Second Civil War," which I love, but the other projects you mention
are unfamiliar
> to me for the simple reason that I've never been able to locate
them on tape.
I have both somewhere.
>
>
> Do either of you Dante buffs know this project?
>
> http://imdb.com/title/tt0142973/combined
>
Yeah - it was the pilot for The Osiris Chronicles. Joe was mad they
ran it as a tv movie, as it is all setup. It was supposed to be a
smart Star Trek. Caleb Carr (The Alienist, Exorcist 4) is a history
and military buff who created a whole, well, universe for this thing.
It's not much as a stand-alone.
I'm dying to see Norman Lloyd's "The Jar."
And I'm dying to see Tim Burton's!
12919
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:21am
Subject: Re: Television that we like
>
> On another television/auteur note, does anyone know how the Monte
> Hellman-directed pilot of "Baretta" is? I know it's on dvd, but I
> also know that Hellman didn't get along well on the set and may
have
> been replaced.
>
> -Aaron
The details are in Brad Stevens' book on Monte. Brad, by the way, is
a lurker on a_film_by, who just finished a great book on Ferrara --
everything you'd ever want to know.
12920
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:33am
Subject: Re: What is an auteur? (Was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Worrall"
>
> > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > The earliest use I've found of the word "auteur" to refer to film
> > > directors is in Truffaut's "Certain Tendency" article - does
> > anyone know
> > > of earlier uses? Anyway, in Truffaut's article, it sure looks to
> > me as
> > > if he is referring to directors who write their own scripts.
> >
>
Here's an interesting quote from Truffaut, where he explains why
a director should work on the script.
While there is unanimous acknowledgement that it is preferable for
the writer and director to be one and the same, the reasons given for
it are banal, and no less an admiration continues to be expressed for
partnerships and collaborative enterprises -- admiration that to my
mind is wasted. The fact that Renoir, Bresson, Cocteau, and Becker
are involved in the writing of a script and sign their name to it
not only gives them greater freedom on the studio floor, but more
radically it means that they replace scenes and dialogue typical of
what scriptwriters produce with scenes and dialogue that a
scriptwriter could never dream up... And are examples required? For
that scene in "Edouard et Caroline" where Elina Labourdette plays at
making 'does eyes' to be filmable, it had first to have been witnessed
in real life, then thought through in terms of mise en scene. I do not
know whether we owe this scene to Annette Wadement or to Jacques
Becker, but I am sure of one thing -- any other director would have
cut it from the shooting script: it advances the plot not one jot and
is there most of all to give a touch, not of realism, but of reality;
it is also there out of love of doing things the hard way. ('The
Rogues are Weary', Cahiers du Cinema, April 1954, in Cahiers du
Cinema, the 1950's, ed. Jim Hillier).
I also like this quote by Chabrol from Douchet's "New Wave."
The auteur concept is powerful, but on condition that we know
what it is. People imagine that an auteur is a filmmaker who
writes his own screenplays. Yet the two directors so often used to
typify the auteur, Hitchcock and Hawks, never touched a screenplay.
The idea was that the director, if he had enough will,
personality, and a world of his own, was the auteur of the
film. Cinema wasn't the screenplay but the film. Which seems
obvious.
(However, Hitchcock and Hawks did in fact work uncredited
on screenplays.)
12921
From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:02am
Subject: Re: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence
> True but what's also involved here is the almost
> tactile intimacy of film. To move completely away fom
> pulp consider Eric Rohmer. "Ma Nuit Chez Maud" could
> very easily have been done as a play. But watching two
> people on a stahe is quite different than watching
> them on screen. And in this I'm thinking of the film's
> central scene with Francoise Fabian and jean-Louis
> Trintignant talking together late at night in her
> bedroom. There's a lot of very subtle physical
> interplay going on here. A kind of
> flirtation/seduction that stops short. To mind mind
> there's nothing more cinematic.
I agree and I'd like, if I may, to claim Rohmer as an example of what
I'm talking about when i say "Transcending the medium's supposed
limits can produce great work."
In theory Rohmer is failing to play to cinema's strengths (steadicam
chases, surfing, etc) and doing something better suited to the stage.
But the very fact that he achieves pure cinema by doing something not
obviously EASY for film, makes him a subtle and interesting artist.
12922
From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:06am
Subject: The Exile (was: Re: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
> THE EXILE is great! What's this about a director's cut?
(Who "directed" it?) I shouldn't be doing my homework here but I
couldn't find anything immediately on the Web -- didn't realize it
was generally available in any form (is it on DVD? is it tinted?)
There are two endings in existence, one is Ophuls' preferred ending,
the other that imposed by Fairbanks.
I saw both versions on a print (untinted) at the Edinburgh Film
Festival's Ophuls retrospective a few years ago (the same retro
appeared in Australia).
Basically, the Ophuls ending stresses the irony of fate and the
suffering and sacrifice of the woman, the studio version stresses
Fairbanks' heroic achievement.
Despite some fun adventuring, a Scottish hero, and some
characteristic Ophuls camerawork, I felt the film only really became
HIS when his ending was screened.
12923
From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:10am
Subject: Re: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence
> Then take another step and watch "Hot Blood".
I would if I could find a decent widescreen copy.
I DID watch it pan-and-scan and there was certainly fascinating stuff
going on with the mise-e-s, but one couldn't make it out to well.
The scene where he's drunk and she's singing was pretty stunning
though.
12924
From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:14am
Subject: Re: The Restored "Big Red One"
> It showed at the Cambridge Film Festival (UK) last week. I missed
the
> bloody thing, and was in Cambridge a few days earlier too.
Nick -
Pop up and see it in Edinburgh!
12925
From:
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:34am
Subject: Re: John Patterson, David Chase (was Television that we like)
In 1985, director John Patterson was associated with a short lived US TV
series, "Our Family Honor". This was a combination soap opera and gangster film,
centering on two families. One were notorious mobsters, the others were a
police family determined to bring them down. This show was a lot of fun. It was
especially rich in character dynamics. The mention of Patterson and "The
Sopranos" (which I've never watched) brought this to mind. Patterson also did an
interesting episode called "Spy" on the short lived TV series, "Today's FBI" (1982).
I do not know where one can see "Our Family Honor" today. The two hour pilot
TV movie is sometimes shown on cable TV, confirming my 20 year old memories
that the show had energy and good characters.
In addition to his Rockford Files work, the Soprano's David Chase also
scripted an hour long un-sold pilot called "Palms" (1982) (as in palm trees in Los
Angeles). This was directed by Ivan Dixon, and was moderately interesting. I
was only mildly interested in any of the Chase scripts I saw in the 1980's.
Mike Grost
12926
From:
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:50am
Subject: Re: Foyle's War (was Television that we like)
My fellow mystery fans recently recommended a British TV series called
"Foyle's War" (2002-2003). It is currently being shown on US public television (PBS)
every Sunday night. Just saw the episode "Fifty Ships" (2003) last Sunday,
and plan on watching more of them.
Despite its name, this is a pure whodunit mystery show. It does take place in
1940 Britain, at the start of World War II, in the small Sussex town of
Hastings (famous for a previous battle in 1066!). My only reservation about "Fifty
Ships" is historical/political - I did not believe in the noble, two-bit
German spy who was one of dozens of suspects wandering through the complex mystery
plot.
I think this show is a good example of what Bill Krohn is talking about, when
he suggests that writer-producers are often the real creative force in TV
(key exceptions such as auteurs such as Tourneur, Harrington or Lewis lavishing
their artistry on occasional classic shows not withstanding). The creator and
usual writer of "Foyle's War" is Anthony Horowitz, a prolific screenwriter who
frequently contributed to the Poirot TV series - a favorite here, by the way.
(Andrew Sarris has written about how much he enjoys Poirot, too!) One suspects
that Horowitz's screenplay, together with the beautiful costumes worn by the
characters, are at the core of what is "fun" about "Fifty Ships". This could
be unfair to director Giles Foster, whose work is otherwise unfamiliar to me.
An entertaining show with an absorbing story? yes. An example of outstanding
auteurist direction? Maybe not.
Mike Grost
12927
From: George Robinson
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:00pm
Subject: Copyright Issues addressed
Pardon the cross-listing but since questions about copyright come up
frequently on this list, I thought I'd direct your attention to this:
Copyright Term and the Public Domain in the United States
http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/training/Hirtle_Public_Domain.htm
A reference chart to help you to determine the copyright status of a given
work
Best,
g
Our talk of justice is empty until the
largest battleship has foundered on the
forehead of a drowned man.
--Paul Celan
12928
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:42pm
Subject: great stuff on TCM (was Bresson's LE PROCES)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:
> My friend Ira Hozinsky just pulled my coat to this exciting news
on TCM.
> I can't recall the last time someone showed this Bresson.
> g
>
Just to reiterate your friend's message: they're also showing
Feuillade's fresh-out-on-DVD serial, JUDEX. It'll be spread over
three Sundays: October 3, 10, and 17. Each installment starts at
midnight eastern time.
The Bresson airs Friday, October 15, 2am eastern time.
Other surprises in the October lineup (any times after midnight and
before 8am fall under the previous day, as per the way they arrange
their listings):
- EUROPA '51 (Rossellini) - 10/1 at 2am EST
- a bunch of talkies starring Buster Keaton (including two of his
Jimmy Durante pairings) - 10/4 during the day
- THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT one, two, three, on the same day as the
Keatons
- an early Soviet documentary called SALT FOR SVANETIA (anyone know
this one?) - 10/8 at 4am EST
- TRAVELS WITH MY AUNT (been wanting to see this for a long time),
10/11, 3:30am EST
- HOME FROM THE HILL, 10/14, 3pm EST
- THIS LAND IS MINE, 10/15, 2pm EST (great, great film)
Dreyer's PASSION follows Bresson's LE PROCES
- COMANCHE STATION (Boetticher), 10/17, 2am EST
- THE FORMULA, 10/18, 6pm EST
- GERTRUD (!!), 10/22 at 2am EST
- RIDE THE PINK HORSE, 10/29 at 10:30am
(And anything else anyone wants to add. I skipped over a lot either
because I thought a title was already well-known, or a TCM staple,
or it didn't catch my interest.)
Sounds like a great month for cable subscribers. I may have to get
cable by October!
-Jaime
12929
From: Michael Lieberman
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:09pm
Subject: Re: Re: Television that we like - K Street
The most enjoyable and thoughtful TV show I've seen lately was "K Street", probably Soderbergh's best work to date. Where else could you find Tom Daschle and Rick Santorum babbling about the "issues" to
fictional vapid creatures and Howard Dean doing an impression of James Carville? Not to mention that it's visually interesting and took the shape of an old fashioned serial after its first episode. A show about
politics which showed the dungeons of night clubs and the champagne glasses filled with water and the eerie insides of the Saudi-American embassy. Admittedly, it's not terribly easy to jump into, but once the
show nears its finale, it pays off in more ways than most TV ever has, and tops most movies from the past year.
----- Original Message -----
From: MG4273@a...
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:42:03 EDT
To: a_film_by@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Television that we like
A hearty seconding to Damien Bona's post on Curtis Harrington's work on
Dynasty and The Colbys.
Another outstanding episodic TV show by Harrington: the "Kill Dan Tanna!"
(1979) episode of "Vega$". This was a strange, dream-like work that flashes back
to the Vietnam war, and gives it a visual treatment unlike anything else ever
seen. It is not "realistic", but it is haunting and visually creative. The
episode is far from being any sort of diatribe. Instead, it is a work of
Harrington poetry.
Mike Grost
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12930
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:20pm
Subject: Soderbergh / K Street
I just looked this up on the IMDb and it sounds really interesting,
so I've added it to my Netflix queue. Thanks, Michael!
I was really enjoying Soderbergh's films for a while but when he
reached BROCKOVICH/TRAFFIC his style lost its hold on me. I also
didn't like OCEANS ELEVEN or SOLARIS.
-Jaime
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Lieberman"
> The most enjoyable and thoughtful TV show I've seen lately was "K
Street", probably Soderbergh's best work to date. Where else could
you find Tom Daschle and Rick Santorum babbling about the "issues"
to
> fictional vapid creatures and Howard Dean doing an impression of
James Carville? Not to mention that it's visually interesting and
took the shape of an old fashioned serial after its first episode. A
show about
> politics which showed the dungeons of night clubs and the
champagne glasses filled with water and the eerie insides of the
Saudi-American embassy. Admittedly, it's not terribly easy to jump
into, but once the
> show nears its finale, it pays off in more ways than most TV ever
has, and tops most movies from the past year.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: MG4273@a...
> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:42:03 EDT
> To: a_film_by@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Television that we like
>
>
>
>
>
> A hearty seconding to Damien Bona's post on Curtis Harrington's
work on
> Dynasty and The Colbys.
> Another outstanding episodic TV show by Harrington: the "Kill Dan
Tanna!"
> (1979) episode of "Vega$". This was a strange, dream-like work
that flashes back
> to the Vietnam war, and gives it a visual treatment unlike
anything else ever
> seen. It is not "realistic", but it is haunting and visually
creative. The
> episode is far from being any sort of diatribe. Instead, it is a
work of
> Harrington poetry.
>
> Mike Grost
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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12931
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:24pm
Subject: Re: great stuff on TCM (was Bresson's LE PROCES)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jaime N. Christley"
"Other surprises in the October lineup (any times after midnight and
before 8am fall under the previous day, as per the way they arrange
their listings):
"- an early Soviet documentary called SALT FOR SVANETIA (anyone know
this one?) - 10/8 at 4am EST"
Though I haven't seen it for 30 years SALT FOR SVANETIA bears
comparison with LOS HURDES. Looking at my old notes I can tell you
that it was made by a Georgian named Mikhail Kalatozav about a remote
village in the Caucasus and I wrote then "Harsh, surreal, poetic."
Please see it by all means.
Richard
12932
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:36pm
Subject: Re: great stuff on TCM (was Bresson's LE PROCES)
> - an early Soviet documentary called SALT FOR SVANETIA (anyone know
> this one?) - 10/8 at 4am EST
Haven't seen it, but it's well known as the most acclaimed early film of
Kalatozov, who became famous years later with THE CRANES ARE FLYING, and
has recently gotten some attention with the rediscovery of I AM CUBA.
Don't know what he was like in 1930, when SVANETIA was made; but he was
certainly an interesting, vivacious director later on.
> - COMANCHE STATION (Boetticher), 10/17, 2am EST
>
> - THE FORMULA, 10/18, 6pm EST
>
> - GERTRUD (!!), 10/22 at 2am EST
Which of these films doesn't belong with the others? - Dan
12933
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:36pm
Subject: Re: Dreyer stuff on TCM
Thanks Richard - and another list-member alerted me by e-mail that
GERTRUD and PASSION OF JOAN OF ARC follow a series of Dreyer films
that the station is broadcasting in September: both PASSION and
GERTRUD again, DAY OF WRATH, MASTER OF THE HOUSE, and VAMPYR, as
well as the documentary CARL TH. DREYER - MY METIER, which will be
shown several times.
-Jaime
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jaime N. Christley"
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
> wrote:
> > My friend Ira Hozinsky just pulled my coat to this exciting news
> on TCM.
> > I can't recall the last time someone showed this Bresson.
> > g
> >
>
> Just to reiterate your friend's message: they're also showing
> Feuillade's fresh-out-on-DVD serial, JUDEX. It'll be spread over
> three Sundays: October 3, 10, and 17. Each installment starts at
> midnight eastern time.
>
> The Bresson airs Friday, October 15, 2am eastern time.
>
> Other surprises in the October lineup (any times after midnight
and
> before 8am fall under the previous day, as per the way they
arrange
> their listings):
>
> - EUROPA '51 (Rossellini) - 10/1 at 2am EST
>
> - a bunch of talkies starring Buster Keaton (including two of his
> Jimmy Durante pairings) - 10/4 during the day
>
> - THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT one, two, three, on the same day as the
> Keatons
>
> - an early Soviet documentary called SALT FOR SVANETIA (anyone
know
> this one?) - 10/8 at 4am EST
>
> - TRAVELS WITH MY AUNT (been wanting to see this for a long time),
> 10/11, 3:30am EST
>
> - HOME FROM THE HILL, 10/14, 3pm EST
>
> - THIS LAND IS MINE, 10/15, 2pm EST (great, great film)
>
> Dreyer's PASSION follows Bresson's LE PROCES
>
> - COMANCHE STATION (Boetticher), 10/17, 2am EST
>
> - THE FORMULA, 10/18, 6pm EST
>
> - GERTRUD (!!), 10/22 at 2am EST
>
> - RIDE THE PINK HORSE, 10/29 at 10:30am
>
> (And anything else anyone wants to add. I skipped over a lot
either
> because I thought a title was already well-known, or a TCM staple,
> or it didn't catch my interest.)
>
> Sounds like a great month for cable subscribers. I may have to
get
> cable by October!
>
> -Jaime
12934
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:41pm
Subject: Re: great stuff on TCM (was Bresson's LE PROCES)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt
> > - COMANCHE STATION (Boetticher), 10/17, 2am EST
> >
> > - THE FORMULA, 10/18, 6pm EST
> >
> > - GERTRUD (!!), 10/22 at 2am EST
>
> Which of these films doesn't belong with the others? - Dan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't have any good excuse for wanting to see a John G. Avildsen
film (and I'll probably find out why when I see it). Nevertheless,
it piqued my interest and I was given the impression that it doesn't
air too often.
-Jaime
12935
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:45pm
Subject: Re: New York Asian American International Film Festival - notes
> Pleased to report that buzz on Royston Tan's 15 (a film that,
> incidentally, would fit right in with the recent "gay or not gay?"
> discussion on male behavior in certain films and plays) is incredibly
> high around the festival -- it's playing again Wednesday afternoon.
I delayed too long and missed this. Kevin, have you (or anyone else)
seen THE BEAUTIFUL WASHING MACHINE and TAKE OUT, the films in the series
that the Village Voice talked up the most? - Dan
12936
From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:50pm
Subject: SEARCHERS who writes the film?
I have no difficulty with collaborative effort of film. I found
these examples in the SEARCHERS while watching
the film and reading the script:
http://www.weeklyscript.com/Searchers,%20The.txt
In THE SEARCHERS, FORD makes a note (in what looks like an
in between written script and shooting script) that DEBBIE should do
something distinctive, like rub her nose (like that would be a latter
clue as to which of the captured white women she might be).
EXT. THE YARD OF THE EDWARDS RANCH - MED. SHOT - DEBBIE -
LATE AFTERNOON
She is staring wide-eyed at the distant horseman o.s.
Her little dog has seen him too and is barking excitedly.
DEBBIE quickly reaches to grab the dog by the scruff of
the
neck, crouching over him. Debbie is 11 years old with a
piquant, memorable face.
EXT. THE YARD - CLOSE SHOT - DEBBIE
Here we must establish and dramatize what it is about her
face that is memorable, so that if we were to see her
again
five or six years later, we would know it is she --
perhaps
the eye color or the slant of eyebrow, or a trick of
scratching bridge of nose with crooked forefinger.
{{{there is no mention of such a clue}}}
INT. THE TEPEE - EXTREME CLOSE SHOT - DEBBIE
As the shawl slips back to reveal her light hair, the
slant
green eyes looking at them from a tanned, but still white
and very beautiful face. (NOTE TO MUSIC: The SEARCH THEME
should cover all the foregoing action -- but at the first
clear view of DEBBIE, it ends dramatically.)
Debbie's eyes hold theirs -- and then Scar's voice is
heard:
{{{ What is the recognition scene, I think, is the lifting... which is
an
action by ETHAN, yet Ethan lifting her as a child is not mentioned in
the script during the scene when they meet face to face...
but I think he lifts her in the film or at least bends to her in
special recognition (for a man unfamiliar with children) }}}
EXT. THE YARD OF THE EDWARDS HOUSE - FULL SHOT - THE GROUP
Debbie's dog begins sniffing at his heels. Ethan looks down
at them - not unfriendly, just a man not used to
children.
ETHAN
Ben, ain't you?
Ben nods.
ETHAN
(frowning at Debbie)
Lucy, you ain't much bigger than
when I saw you last.
DEBBIE
I'm Deborah!
(pointing)
She's Lucy.
{{{ But that same lifting action is the apparent memory that changes
his mind... in the script ETHAN says something like you sure favor
your mother }}}
EXT. OPEN COUNTRY - ETHAN AND DEBBIE
Ethan is at the left of CAMERA and slightly closer to the
foreground, with Debbie at the right, supine on the
ground
and the dust swirling around her. Ethan draws and raises
his
gun. The hammer goes back.
ETHAN
(quietly)
I'm sorry, girl... Shut your eyes...
The dust clears. The CAMERA MOVES slightly forward along
the
gun arm and HOLDS on Debbie's face -- the eyes gazing
fearlessly, innocently into Ethan's. We HOLD for a long
moment
and then the gun lowers. Ethan slowly holsters it and
walks
over to her.
EXT. OPEN COUNTRY - CLOSE SHOT - ETHAN
He looks down at her.
ETHAN
(softly)
You sure favor your mother...
(which is interesting in that the older Debbie (Natalie Wood) may in
fact have or probably looked like the younger Debbie, her sister
(Lana Wood). It might have been interesting to have the older
Debbie actress be the true sister or daughter of Martha
(Dorothy Jordon).
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:37:30 -0000
From: "Michael Worrall"
Subject: What is an auteur? (Was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt
wrote:
>
> The earliest use I've found of the word "auteur" to refer to film
> directors is in Truffaut's "Certain Tendency" article - does
anyone know
> of earlier uses? Anyway, in Truffaut's article, it sure looks to
me as
> if he is referring to directors who write their own scripts.
From what I have always understood is that the Cahier critics
were talking about filmmakers like Ford, Hitchcock and Ray who
did not write their own scripts -- but that one could trace a
consistency through a filmmaker who had worked with various
screenwriters, projects and studios.
This is not to say that Ford, Hitchcock or Ray did not have a hand
in the script at some point, but they made the film "their own"
during the shooting process therefore becoming the true
"author" of the film. The attachment/definition of an auteur who
both writes and directs his/her own films came later, I believe.
I would argue with David that there are several auteurs who did
or do not write their own scripts. And I find that some of the
members of this group are implying that I am being reactionary
to the presence of a script --saying that I am dismissing it--
whereas I am trying to argue that it has a place in within
filmmaking but not the paramount importance that some critics
and audiences give to it. Either something is getting lost in the
transition or I am not explaining myself clearly. But is it really that
extreme or radical to want to focus on something more than the
script or text in a board dedicated to talking about auteurs? Right
now I feel Minnelli's work is only being discussed in the subject
of "is he/she or isn't he/she"
12937
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:51pm
Subject: Re: Re: great stuff on TCM (was Bresson's LE PROCES)
>>>- COMANCHE STATION (Boetticher), 10/17, 2am EST
>>>
>>>- THE FORMULA, 10/18, 6pm EST
>>>
>>>- GERTRUD (!!), 10/22 at 2am EST
>>
>>Which of these films doesn't belong with the others? - Dan
>
> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>
> I don't have any good excuse for wanting to see a John G. Avildsen
> film (and I'll probably find out why when I see it). Nevertheless,
> it piqued my interest and I was given the impression that it doesn't
> air too often.
You know, Avildsen isn't the worst director in the world by any means -
he could do decent work sometimes. But THE FORMULA was rough sledding
for me. It might be worth seeing for Brando, who doesn't show up until
near the end and then undermines the whole project. I was just amused
to see it sitting there next to GERTRUD.... - Dan
12938
From:
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:57pm
Subject: Re: television we love (slowly wandering OT)
The TV production process is somewhat mysterious to me, but as I
understand it, the real auteur of a TV series is usually the creator
and/or exec producer, usually called the "showrunner." (See David
Wild's book "The Showrunners," natch.) It works differently for
different shows, but I know, for example, that on NYPD Blue (which at
its height was arguably the best meat and potatoes show on the air)
scenes were regularly, and often totally, rewritten by co-creator
David Milch (now of DEADWOOD fame) even for episodes where he didn't
get a writing credit. On half-hour comedies, a lot of jokes come out
of brainstorming sessions by the entire staff. Listen to the
commentaries on the SIMPSONS DVDs and you'll hear writers often
exclaiming in mock frustration that the best jokes in the episodes
they're credited for inevitably come from executive producer James L
Brooks, who has never taken a writing credit. The director's role is
comparatively minimal, since the critical role of selecting the crew
is removed from the process for continuity's sake. If a director
already has a well-established style, then you can probably find
traces of it in his/her episode: Walter Hill on the DEADWOOD pilot,
for example, or Quentin Tarantino's episode of ER. But on TV, even
big-name directors are usually just guns for hire, and they usually
don't consider whatever TV they've done as part of their body of work.
Sam
12939
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:10pm
Subject: Re: John Patterson, David Chase (was Television that we like)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> In 1985, director John Patterson was associated with a short lived
US TV
> series, "Our Family Honor".
Patterson directed the season conclusion of Carnivale. Well-done, but
not noticeably different from the other episodes - at least not to my
eye.
12940
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:14pm
Subject: Re: great stuff on TCM (was Bresson's LE PROCES)
> Though I haven't seen it for 30 years SALT FOR SVANETIA bears
> comparison with LOS HURDES. Looking at my old notes I can tell you
> that it was made by a Georgian named Mikhail Kalatozav about a
remote
> village in the Caucasus and I wrote then "Harsh, surreal, poetic."
> Please see it by all means.
>
> Richard
A few sources suggest it influenced Las Hurdes.
12941
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:16pm
Subject: Re: Re: television we love (slowly wandering OT)
> The TV production process is somewhat mysterious to me, but as I
> understand it, the real auteur of a TV series is usually the creator
> and/or exec producer, usually called the "showrunner."
I guess it depends on what you mean by "auteur"....
Certainly the director seems to be in a poor position in episodic TV.
My sense is that one is more inclined to like episodic TV if one is able
to appreciate the work of good writer-producers in the absence of good
direction.
But I don't see why those of us who are director-oriented can't pick and
choose what we like out of TV, even if the system is not set up for us.
Once in a while a good director gets the bit between his or her teeth
in episodic TV, and those are the episodes that director-oriented
viewers are more likely to enjoy. Of course, it's much more likely that
a good director will be defeated by the system. - Dan
12942
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:31pm
Subject: Re: SEARCHERS who writes the film?
ER - This is the Revised Final copy of the script. I'd have to see if
there's anything later in the file at UCLA -- if there IS a file: The
Fox collection is in a mess. But don't assume that the many
differences -- such as the total absence of the ending we know and
love -- means that Nugent and Ford wrote a later draft. The next
draft may have been the film.
Please explain where you found this treasure, and whether more such
priceless stuff is appearing weekly somewhere. It's good to know that
20th -- I assume it's the studio? - is doing this on the Net. Studio
legal departments and the WGA are being ridiculous about not letting
scripts go into DVDs as extras...at all. When Laurent Bouzereau was
putting together extras for Suspicion, I suggested including the
alternate endings and he laughed bitterly. The Warners "legal" dept. -
a moronic goody two-shoes paralegal I have dealt with - had ruled
that clean out. Maybe if it's free on the Net the clause that blocks
DVD inclusion doesn't apply. Or maybe it's just happening under the
radar.
The Val Lewton screenplay series that was appearing on the Net seems
to have been stopped -- the URL calls up nothing now.
12943
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 4:40pm
Subject: Re: SEARCHERS who writes the film?
Very interesting stuff on THE SEARCHERS.
> In THE SEARCHERS, FORD makes a note (in what looks like an
> in between written script and shooting script) that DEBBIE should do
> something distinctive, like rub her nose (like that would be a latter
> clue as to which of the captured white women she might be).
This is a classic storytelling trick. The trouble with applying it here
is that...
> {{{ What is the recognition scene, I think, is the lifting...
...the recognition scene in the finished film is the surprise shot of
Debbie holding the stick that bears the scalps that Scar has collected.
So both her hands are occupied, and she can't rub her nose or do
anything but look.
Ford manages by putting quite a lot of emphasis on that shot of Debbie:
Ethan and Martin look up and spot her, Ethan has to quiet Martin, the
medium-close-up of Debbie holding the scalps is quite striking and is
sustained. It doesn't much matter if we recognize her: who else can it
be? I like this solution a lot better than the trick of rubbing the
nose, or whatever. It was enough that Ford recognized the problem -
when the time came to deal with it, the basic tools of shot selection,
rhythm, frame size, and gesture were enough for the job.
> (NOTE TO MUSIC: The SEARCH THEME
> should cover all the foregoing action -- but at the first
> clear view of DEBBIE, it ends dramatically.)
My memory is that the music doesn't stop when we recognize Debbie, but
even kicks in a bit - is that right?
> Ethan draws and raises
> his
> gun. The hammer goes back.
>
> ETHAN
> (quietly)
> I'm sorry, girl... Shut your eyes...
Whoa! It's hard to imagine this climax instead of the one we know. - Dan
12944
From: Aaron Graham
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:02pm
Subject: RIP Jerry Goldsmith
http://entertainment.tv.yahoo.com/entnews/eo/20040722/109051920001.htm
l
His music for "Gremlins" and other Dante films readily come to mind,
but browsing through his credits, there's so much more. He'll truly
be missed in the world of film scoring.
-Aaron
12945
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:26pm
Subject: Re: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "cairnsdavid1967"
wrote:
> > Then take another step and watch "Hot Blood".
>
> I would if I could find a decent widescreen copy.
>
> I DID watch it pan-and-scan and there was certainly fascinating
stuff
> going on with the mise-e-s, but one couldn't make it out to well.
>
> The scene where he's drunk and she's singing was pretty stunning
> though.
I was a great admirer of HOT BLOOD when I was a young auteurist.
In 1960 I called it (in French) "one of the most original and modern
films of the fifties." I saw it again three or four years ago at the
Cinematheque in Paris, in a fairly good Scope print, and was sorely
disappointed. I don't think there is any other film about which I've
had such a near-complete reversal of opinion. Is it the film or is it
me that didn't age well? Now I am much more sensitive to the mind-
bogling silliness of the story. An auteurist is supposed to see
beyond that -- I no longer can, at least in this particular case.
JPC
12946
From: Michael Lieberman
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:40pm
Subject: Re: Soderbergh / K Street
Amy Taubin wrote a really decent piece on "K Street" (available online at filmlinc.com) and is the only person I found who didn't pan the show completely. If anything, she confronted the
show's strange schizo personality, mixing the reality of fictional and non-fictional characters, events, and politicians mingling with both the fictional and non-fictional players. Need I also
mention that the show is the most visually distinctive that I've encountered since Lynch's days of episodic TV?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jaime N. Christley"
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 15:20:14 -0000
To: a_film_by@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [a_film_by] Soderbergh / K Street
I just looked this up on the IMDb and it sounds really interesting,
so I've added it to my Netflix queue. Thanks, Michael!
I was really enjoying Soderbergh's films for a while but when he
reached BROCKOVICH/TRAFFIC his style lost its hold on me. I also
didn't like OCEANS ELEVEN or SOLARIS.
-Jaime
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Lieberman"
> The most enjoyable and thoughtful TV show I've seen lately was "K
Street", probably Soderbergh's best work to date. Where else could
you find Tom Daschle and Rick Santorum babbling about the "issues"
to
> fictional vapid creatures and Howard Dean doing an impression of
James Carville? Not to mention that it's visually interesting and
took the shape of an old fashioned serial after its first episode. A
show about
> politics which showed the dungeons of night clubs and the
champagne glasses filled with water and the eerie insides of the
Saudi-American embassy. Admittedly, it's not terribly easy to jump
into, but once the
> show nears its finale, it pays off in more ways than most TV ever
has, and tops most movies from the past year.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: MG4273@a...
> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:42:03 EDT
> To: a_film_by@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Television that we like
>
>
>
>
>
> A hearty seconding to Damien Bona's post on Curtis Harrington's
work on
> Dynasty and The Colbys.
> Another outstanding episodic TV show by Harrington: the "Kill Dan
Tanna!"
> (1979) episode of "Vega$". This was a strange, dream-like work
that flashes back
> to the Vietnam war, and gives it a visual treatment unlike
anything else ever
> seen. It is not "realistic", but it is haunting and visually
creative. The
> episode is far from being any sort of diatribe. Instead, it is a
work of
> Harrington poetry.
>
> Mike Grost
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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12947
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence
--- jpcoursodon
.
>
>
> I was a great admirer of HOT BLOOD when I was a
> young auteurist.
> In 1960 I called it (in French) "one of the most
> original and modern
> films of the fifties." I saw it again three or four
> years ago at the
> Cinematheque in Paris, in a fairly good Scope print,
> and was sorely
> disappointed. I don't think there is any other film
> about which I've
> had such a near-complete reversal of opinion. Is it
> the film or is it
> me that didn't age well? Now I am much more
> sensitive to the mind-
> bogling silliness of the story. An auteurist is
> supposed to see
> beyond that -- I no longer can, at least in this
> particular case.
>
Did you ever see the trailer for it?
"Jane Russell shakes her tambourine and drives Cornel
WILD!"
__________________________________
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12948
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:49pm
Subject: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "cairnsdavid1967"
> > I DID watch it pan-and-scan and there was certainly fascinating
> stuff
> > going on with the mise-e-s, but one couldn't make it out to well.
Not to pick on you, Cairns, but that reminds me of the "Village
Voice" article Michael Atkinson wrote about the two widescreen
series that played last year in New York: one at Lincoln Center and
another at the AMMI in Astoria. He casually dismissed a few of the
films (like THEY LIVE, argh!) with a Denby-ish sniff and praised pan
& scan TV prints of at least two of the films*** as "restless" and
"dynamic..."
A week later, the "Voice" printed a letter by Kent Jones, telling
readers that they now had a great way of disposing of their old pan
& scan tapes: send them to Michael Atkinson so he can enjoy their
restless, dynamic qualities!
[***Oddly enough, the two that are probably in the "auteurist
anathema" catalogue: SPARTACUS and LAWRENCE OF ARABIA (at least the
Kubrick parts).]
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
> I was a great admirer of HOT BLOOD when I was a young
auteurist.
> In 1960 I called it (in French) "one of the most original and
modern
> films of the fifties." I saw it again three or four years ago at
the
> Cinematheque in Paris, in a fairly good Scope print, and was
sorely
> disappointed. I don't think there is any other film about which
I've
> had such a near-complete reversal of opinion.
I did that with NATURAL BORN KILLERS. I used to regard it as a
towering masterpiece, but with a recent viewing I found it as boring
as ANY GIVEN SUNDAY. A shame, since it was one of only two Oliver
Stone movies I like/d. (The other is JFK.) And like you I had
the "is it me?" crisis - and I'm not yet thirty! Obviously the film
hasn't changed, but I have (a little, at least), and the context is
always new with each viewing.
I liked HOT BLOOD but I remain unsure about it.
12949
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:03pm
Subject: question: Depeche Mode on the soundtrack?
Is there a film that features the Depeche Mode song, "Blue Dress"?
I've been listening to it over the past few days and I could swear I
heard it in a movie. It reminds me of the song Buffalo Bill plays
near the end of SILENCE OF THE LAMBS, but it's not the one.
Ah, soundtracks. Sometimes "Heartbeat" from MANHUNTER gets stuck in
my head, bringing the whole film along with it.
(I'm sooo bored, obviously. Anyone have any data for me to enter?
A steal at sixteen bucks an hour. Only things related to irritable
bowel syndrome, please.)
-Jaime
12950
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:08pm
Subject: Re: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> >
> Did you ever see the trailer for it?
>
> "Jane Russell shakes her tambourine and drives Cornel
> WILD!"
> ... and Cornel is hard to drive anything...
>
>
> Perhaps if she shook her tambourine at me she'd drive me
WILDE too.
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign!
> http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/
12951
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:08pm
Subject: Re: SEARCHERS who writes the film?
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt
> Very interesting stuff on THE SEARCHERS.
>
> > In THE SEARCHERS, FORD makes a note (in what looks like an
> > in between written script and shooting script) that DEBBIE should
do
> > something distinctive, like rub her nose (like that would be a
latter
> > clue as to which of the captured white women she might be).
>
> This is a classic storytelling trick. The trouble with applying it
here
> is that...
>
> > {{{ What is the recognition scene, I think, is the lifting...
>
> ...the recognition scene in the finished film is the surprise shot
of
> Debbie holding the stick that bears the scalps that Scar has
collected.
> So both her hands are occupied, and she can't rub her nose or do
> anything but look.
The script indication about Debbie rubbing her nose could be Nugent.
I suspect it is -- it's a classic screenwriter's idea.
Another thing writers do a lot is try to direct the actors long-
distance. In carefully comparing The Naked Dawn to the shooting
script, it was striking that Ulmer didn't follow Zimet's ideas about
what the characters were feeling and how they showed it one single
time! He shot the script with very few divergences, in other words,
but he didn't shoot Zimet's idea of the various characters' "curves."
The result is a different film.
There's a funny joke about Ford and writers that Greg Ford (no
relation) pointed out to me in Wings of Eagles: Ward Bond plays Ford,
and after his introduction someone asks who's going to write the film
they're making. "It's a cinch it won't be him!" someone wisecracks.
Ford apparently just couldn't sit down by himself and write a script,
no matter how hard he tried.
As I have Bunuel on the brain, he always had to have a writer with
him, but always took a credit. The only film he didn't work with the
writers on was El gran calavera, where he just added a couple of
touches. And he always gave himself first position in the writing
credit -- with Carriere, the writing credit went to Bunuel, and
Carriere got a "with" credit. LB was also almost always co-credited --
first position -- as editor. And starting with Charme Discret he gave
himself a credit for "sound effects by," even though he was quite
deaf by then. It wasn't a gag -- the sound effects were important in
all his films, and particularly the neo-surrealist films made in
France starting with Belle de Jour, none of which has music except
for source music.
These oddities would not have been permitted in H'wd, but they give
you an idea of what one great director considered to be his most
important contributions besides directing the scenes (where he
improvised fairly frequently, he says).
12952
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:12pm
Subject: Re: RIP Jerry Goldsmith
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Graham"
>
http://entertainment.tv.yahoo.com/entnews/eo/20040722/109051920001.htm
> l
>
> His music for "Gremlins" and other Dante films readily come to
mind,
> but browsing through his credits, there's so much more. He'll truly
> be missed in the world of film scoring.
>
> -Aaron
One of his last was the score for Looney Tunes: Back in Action, which
is absolutely brilliant, as is the score for the even more
experimental "It's a Good Life." His end credit cues for LT:BIA are a
little symphony in themselves. My ex- played the DVD of Sum of All
Fears a couple of times just for the score. The list is long. I could
care less about Reagan -- THIS guy will be missed!
12953
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:18pm
Subject: OT IBS
Only things related to irritable
> bowel syndrome, please.)
>
> -Jaime
I know a nutritionist at Encino-Tarzana Regional Medical Center who
cures it regularly. Acidophilus and don't eat stuff you can't digest.
The undigested matter breeds the bacteria that cause the syndrome.
IBD, it turns out, is also caused by bacteria. An auteur friend of
mine was accidentally cured after many resections by a massive dose
of antibiotics. No relapses.
12954
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: RIP Jerry Goldsmith
--- hotlove666
> One of his last was the score for Looney Tunes: Back
> in Action, which
> is absolutely brilliant, as is the score for the
> even more
> experimental "It's a Good Life." His end credit cues
> for LT:BIA are a
> little symphony in themselves. My ex- played the DVD
> of Sum of All
> Fears a couple of times just for the score. The list
> is long. I could
> care less about Reagan -- THIS guy will be missed!
>
>
Indeed! I love his score for "Chinatown," "Justine"
and "The Gauntlet" -- a marvelous slow jazz/blues
arrangement of "Just a Closer Walk with Thee."
__________________________________
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Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign!
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12955
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:18pm
Subject: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jaime N. Christley"
> .
>
> Not to pick on you, Cairns, but that reminds me of the "Village
> Voice" article Michael Atkinson wrote about the two widescreen
> series that played last year in New York: one at Lincoln Center
and
> another at the AMMI in Astoria. He casually dismissed a few of the
> films (like THEY LIVE, argh!) with a Denby-ish sniff and praised
pan
> & scan TV prints of at least two of the films*** as "restless" and
> "dynamic..."
>
Let me get this right: they had wide screen series and showed
pan&scan TV prints instead? Just because they couldn't get wide
screen prints I guess...
Reminds me of the sideshow bearded lady W.C. Fields admired so
much because she always appeared "perfectly cleanshaven."
JPC
12956
From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:21pm
Subject: Re: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
>
> I was a great admirer of HOT BLOOD when I was a young auteurist.
> In 1960 I called it (in French) "one of the most original and
modern
> films of the fifties." I saw it again three or four years ago at
the
> Cinematheque in Paris, in a fairly good Scope print, and was sorely
> disappointed. I don't think there is any other film about which
I've
> had such a near-complete reversal of opinion. Is it the film or is
it
> me that didn't age well? Now I am much more sensitive to the mind-
> bogling silliness of the story. An auteurist is supposed to see
> beyond that -- I no longer can, at least in this particular case.
MOMA showed Hot Blood about a year ago and I saw it there in its
entirety for the first time, after purposely only looking at bits and
pieces of it over the years on television. I was pretty disappointed
as well, even though there were certain elements of the mise-en-scene
which were attractive. (It's one of the rare films in which the men's
clothes are more dazzling than the women's.)
Godard's review of the film is very attuned to the problems of the
film in terms of its scenario and of Ray's only intermittent interest
in his own material. This review is one of many examples of how the
critics at Cahiers during this period were not as fully invested in
the redemptive properties of mise-en-scene as they've sometimes
believed to have been, in spite of the excesses of things like
Hoveyda's review of Party Girl. In an interview in the 1960s with
JLG, he talks about seeing Lola Montes on TV and while the mise-en-
scene was pretty much destroyed the experience was still worthwhile
for him since it gave him the opportunity to concentrate on the
dialogue. And many years after this, in another interview, he talked
about Brian De Palma, whose work he admired for its attention to the
image while still feeling that De Palma was limited due to De
Palma's "contempt" for the story, especially in Dressed to Kill.
Discussion of the New Wave's interest in the script, in the problems
of dialogue, language, narrative structure is out there, for those of
you who are dealing with these matters for the first time. Douchet
devotes a number of pages to this in his book on the New Wave and an
early piece of Rohmer's, "For a talking cinema," (reprinted in The
Taste for Beauty)is one attempt to address the issue of the
importance of the screenplay in relation to the mise-en-scene.
12957
From: Craig Keller
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:29pm
Subject: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
>
> [***Oddly enough, the two that are probably in the "auteurist
> anathema" catalogue: SPARTACUS and LAWRENCE OF ARABIA (at least the
> Kubrick parts).]
What is the "auteurist anathema" catalogue, and what do 'Spartacus' and
'Lawrence of Arabia' have to do with it? Also, what are the "Kubrick
parts" of 'Lawrence of Arabia'?
craig.
12958
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:28pm
Subject: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
> Let me get this right: they had wide screen series and showed
> pan&scan TV prints instead? Just because they couldn't get wide
> screen prints I guess...
No, no, no. They'd be lynched! Their heads would be on sticks.
Here's what he wrote - sorry for the confusion:
"It's common wisdom that a theatrical viewing on the biggest
possible screen is the filmgoing ideal. But I guiltlessly prefer the
restless, dynamic pan-and-scan TV print versions of Lawrence of
Arabia (1962), at AMMI, and Spartacus (1960), at the WR, to the
widescreen restorations I saw in 1989 and 1991, respectively.
Without the sometimes irrational reshaping and often epileptic
cutting from one end of the super-image to the other, both films
acquired tonnage, gracelessness, and torpor along with scale, like
massively overweight hogs. Finally, I understood what the critics of
the day meant in their kvetching about monolithic epics (writing in
the Voice, Andrew Sarris dismissed Lawrence as 'dull, overlong and
coldly impersonal'). Sometimes, less movie is more movie."
Here's the article:
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0329/atkinson.php
12959
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:31pm
Subject: Re: OT IBS
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> Only things related to irritable
> > bowel syndrome, please.)
> >
> > -Jaime
>
> I know a nutritionist at Encino-Tarzana Regional Medical Center who
> cures it regularly. Acidophilus and don't eat stuff you can't
digest.
> The undigested matter breeds the bacteria that cause the syndrome.
>
> IBD, it turns out, is also caused by bacteria. An auteur friend of
> mine was accidentally cured after many resections by a massive dose
> of antibiotics. No relapses.
Not so OT. See the Coens' LADYKILLERS
12960
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:38pm
Subject: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
> What is the "auteurist anathema" catalogue, and what
do 'Spartacus' and
> 'Lawrence of Arabia' have to do with it?
Specifically, a term I made up on the spot.
Historically speaking, big-name evictees from the House of
Auteurism, courtesy Sarris and the generation of American auteurists
he spawned. I don't mean this in a negative way.
> Also, what are the "Kubrick
> parts" of 'Lawrence of Arabia'?
Oops. SPARTACUS I meant. Every once in a while someone will praise
SPARTACUS for the parts they presume Anthony Mann had directed - and
pan it for what they presume Kubrick directed. (There was a
discussion about this several months ago.)
-Jaime
12961
From: Aaron Graham
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:41pm
Subject: Re: question: Depeche Mode on the soundtrack?
> Ah, soundtracks. Sometimes "Heartbeat" from MANHUNTER gets stuck
in
> my head, bringing the whole film along with it.
I have that same problem. Also, Wayne Chung's soundtrack for TO LIVE
AND DIE IN LA will pop up in my head once in awhile. Usually
it's "Wait".
Must have something to do with William Petersen...
-Aaron
12962
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:41pm
Subject: Re: OT IBS
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
> I know a nutritionist at Encino-Tarzana Regional Medical Center
who
> cures it regularly. Acidophilus and don't eat stuff you can't
digest.
> The undigested matter breeds the bacteria that cause the syndrome.
>
> IBD, it turns out, is also caused by bacteria. An auteur friend of
> mine was accidentally cured after many resections by a massive
dose
> of antibiotics. No relapses.
I'm just researching IBS researchers. Rear echelon type stuff.
Pun fact for you, Bill: it's also called Crohn's disease!
-Jaime
12963
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:44pm
Subject: Re: question: Depeche Mode on the soundtrack?
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Graham"
>
> > Ah, soundtracks. Sometimes "Heartbeat" from MANHUNTER gets
stuck
> in
> > my head, bringing the whole film along with it.
>
> I have that same problem. Also, Wayne Chung's soundtrack for TO
LIVE
> AND DIE IN LA will pop up in my head once in awhile. Usually
> it's "Wait".
>
> Must have something to do with William Petersen...
>
> -Aaron
It's a guilty pleasure for me - I should cringe and hate it, but I
love the film and I guess "Heartbeat" is okay, too!
Need to see TO LIVE AND DIE again. It's a sequel to the Sirk film,
A TIME TO LIVE AND A TIME TO DIE, right? [joke, joke]
-Jaime
12964
From: Aaron Graham
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:50pm
Subject: Re: question: Depeche Mode on the soundtrack?
> -Aaron
>
> It's a guilty pleasure for me - I should cringe and hate it, but I
> love the film and I guess "Heartbeat" is okay, too!
Guilty pleasure for us, but not for Michael Mann! He has used it
twice. First on an episode of "Miami vice". Oddly enough, that same
episode guest starred Molly Graham herself -- Kim Griest.
-Aaron
12965
From: Craig Keller
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: OT IBS
>
> I'm just researching IBS researchers. Rear echelon type stuff.
>
> Pun fact for you, Bill: it's also called Crohn's disease!
I thought Crohn's disease and IBS were different, in that with Crohn's,
your body simply can't break down certain foodstuffs or starches any
longer -- whereas with IBS, lots of different foods can "set you off"
but not in the same manner of extreme discomfort and even physical pain
experienced by one suffering from Crohn's. No?
cmk.
12966
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:55pm
Subject: Re: OT IBS
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
wrote:
> >
> > I'm just researching IBS researchers. Rear echelon type stuff.
> >
> > Pun fact for you, Bill: it's also called Crohn's disease!
>
> I thought Crohn's disease and IBS were different, in that with
Crohn's,
> your body simply can't break down certain foodstuffs or starches
any
> longer -- whereas with IBS, lots of different foods can "set you
off"
> but not in the same manner of extreme discomfort and even physical
pain
> experienced by one suffering from Crohn's. No?
I don't know myself - the abstracts to these papers and journal
articles are written in some combination of Navajo, Pig Latin, and
caterwauling.
But I can put you in touch with about a thousand IBS/Crohn's
researchers worldwide!
-Jaime
12967
From: Craig Keller
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
>
> Specifically, a term I made up on the spot.
>
> Historically speaking, big-name evictees from the House of
> Auteurism, courtesy Sarris and the generation of American auteurists
> he spawned. I don't mean this in a negative way.
Of course, "auteurist" analysis of Kubrick barely existed, simply
because he hailed from a younger generation. I've always sensed a mild
schizophrenia in the Cahiers critics when it came to analyzing or
finding anything they might like by American filmmakers who came after
the studio system fell apart and were their own contemporaries in age.
Big interview with Sidney Lumet and praise for him in one 1959 issue;
damnation from him as "flashy" in another. 'Sunset Blvd.' makes the
cover of issue #1; Wilder is damned with faint praise in subsequent
numbers, although 'Irma La Douce' would make #1 if I recall on Godard's
Best of 1963 (or '64?) top ten. (Of course, there's a huge span
between the talents of Wilder and Lumet -- surely a sensible man would
have had enough cognizance of what he'd wrought to remove his name from
the credits of 'Running on Empty'.) Then we have Godard dismissing
'The Killing,' Truffaut praising 'Paths of Glory,' and Godard praising
'Lolita,' before silence from the turks on any subsequent films. (They
were well in on their own filmmaking careers by 1964, but in any
looks-back or survey interviews the historical record of Kubrick is
absent -- but the same talk about 'Red Line 7000' goes on forever.) By
comparison, Welles, who maybe is the American figure nearest Kubrick in
terms of aesthetic innovation and the imposition of a singular
non-generic world-view to his films, was never given the stick by the
turks because, older than they, he retained some kind of distanced,
deific quality due in part to his films, determination, and
"international flair," but also because of a twenty year age difference.
> Oops. SPARTACUS I meant. Every once in a while someone will praise
> SPARTACUS for the parts they presume Anthony Mann had directed - and
> pan it for what they presume Kubrick directed. (There was a
> discussion about this several months ago.)
Ah yes, because Mann was a man's man, another of the "old stoics," and
Kubrick considered himself an artist, and retained a kind of cynicism
only tolerated when held by painters and novelists. How very shameful.
craig.
12968
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:27pm
Subject: Re: auteur reps (was: pan & scan, re-vewing)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
> Of course, "auteurist" analysis of Kubrick barely existed, simply
> because he hailed from a younger generation. I've always sensed a
mild
> schizophrenia in the Cahiers critics when it came to analyzing or
> finding anything they might like by American filmmakers who came
after
> the studio system fell apart and were their own contemporaries in
age.
> Big interview with Sidney Lumet and praise for him in one 1959
issue;
> damnation from him as "flashy" in another. 'Sunset Blvd.' makes
the
> cover of issue #1; Wilder is damned with faint praise in
subsequent
> numbers, although 'Irma La Douce' would make #1 if I recall on
Godard's
> Best of 1963 (or '64?) top ten. (Of course, there's a huge span
> between the talents of Wilder and Lumet -- surely a sensible man
would
> have had enough cognizance of what he'd wrought to remove his name
from
> the credits of 'Running on Empty'.) Then we have Godard
dismissing
> 'The Killing,' Truffaut praising 'Paths of Glory,' and Godard
praising
> 'Lolita,' before silence from the turks on any subsequent films.
(They
> were well in on their own filmmaking careers by 1964, but in any
> looks-back or survey interviews the historical record of Kubrick
is
> absent -- but the same talk about 'Red Line 7000' goes on
forever.) By
> comparison, Welles, who maybe is the American figure nearest
Kubrick in
> terms of aesthetic innovation and the imposition of a singular
> non-generic world-view to his films, was never given the stick by
the
> turks because, older than they, he retained some kind of
distanced,
> deific quality due in part to his films, determination, and
> "international flair," but also because of a twenty year age
difference.
Thanks for all this, you've given a lot of detail to my "general
impression."
A story I heard, that could use clarification (and correction, as
necessary): the New York Film Critics Circle wanted to give Godard
some sort of some award for lifetime achievement, and he faxed them
a letter that included a diatribe against Kubrick and Spielberg,
stuff in general, etc.
Regarding Welles - the "war" is still being fought. The same old
misunderstandings keep cropping up. His reputation was - and
remains - as complex as any of his films.
> Ah yes, because Mann was a man's man, another of the "old stoics,"
and
> Kubrick considered himself an artist, and retained a kind of
cynicism
> only tolerated when held by painters and novelists. How very
shameful.
Truth be told, I had an identical reaction to the film when I saw it
last. (70mm print.) The sections we presume to be Mann's have an
intensity that fades from the film as it goes along into the
sections we presume to be Kubrick's. But I'm a Kubrick partisan
(and a Mann partisan), almost a hardliner.
-Jaime
12969
From: Noel Vera
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:34pm
Subject: Re: [Re: SEARCHERS who writes the film?
Kurosawa, according to Richie, used a team of writers
to which he'd contribute. I don't remember if it was
Richie or he was quoting someone when he rated K
Toho's finest director, Japan's best writer, and the
world's greatest editor. Don't know if I agree anymore
but I do think he had aharp story sense...
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12970
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
--- Craig Keller
>
> Of course, "auteurist" analysis of Kubrick barely
> existed, simply
> because he hailed from a younger generation.
A fortiori he wasn't part of the Hollywood paradigm.
After the triumphs of "Dr. Strangelove" and "2001" it
became clear that Kubrick was a europan "art" director
like Antonioni -- with whom he shared a fascination
for technology.
(Of course, there's
> a huge span
> between the talents of Wilder and Lumet -- surely a
> sensible man would
> have had enough cognizance of what he'd wrought to
> remove his name from
> the credits of 'Running on Empty'.)
What on earth are you talking about? It's a great film
-- with River's greatest performance in it.
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12971
From:
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
David Ehrenstein wrote:
>What on earth are you talking about? It's a great film
>-- with River's greatest performance in it.
I'm no particular fan of Sidney Lumet, but I do like "Running on Empty" an
awful lot. Glad to hear from another fan of it.
Peter
12972
From:
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:56pm
Subject: Re: great stuff on TCM (was Bresson's LE PROCES)
Jaime N. Christley wrote:
>- TRAVELS WITH MY AUNT (been wanting to see this for a long time),
>10/11, 3:30am EST
I'm a big, big fan of this one.
>- HOME FROM THE HILL, 10/14, 3pm EST
Fred has alternated between this and "Two Weeks in Another Town" as his
favorite Minnelli film. For me, it's between those two and "Some Came Running."
TCM has an amazing lineup this coming week too. All times Eastern:
THE CAREY TREATMENT (Edwards) Tuesday, July 27, 10:00 PM
H.M. PULHAM, ESQ (Vidor) Wednesday, July 28, 3:00 AM
PARTY GIRL (Ray) Thursday, July 29, 12:15 PM
I've actually never seen any of these, so this will be a treat.
Peter
12973
From: Craig Keller
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:03pm
Subject: Re: Re: auteur reps (was: pan & scan, re-vewing)
> A story I heard, that could use clarification (and correction, as
> necessary): the New York Film Critics Circle wanted to give Godard
> some sort of some award for lifetime achievement, and he faxed them
> a letter that included a diatribe against Kubrick and Spielberg,
> stuff in general, etc.
From the letter:
"... And it is then my duty -- no copyrights, only copyduties -- not to
accept any longer the honor of your reward. Do please accept the
incomplete following reasons for such a genuine and shy statement. JLG
was never able through his whole movie maker/goer career to:
-Prevent M. Spielberg from rebuilding Auschwitz.
...
-To persuade M. Kubrick to screen Santiago Alvarez shorts on Vietnam.
... etc."
The whole of the letter can be found here --
http://www.geocities.com/glen_norton/pics/LetterfromJLG.gif. It's
typically Godardian -- poignant, frustrating, hilarious. I know you're
a big Spielberg champ, Jaime (I strongly dislike most of his films), so
I won't address the 'Schindler' barb and in any case it's been defended
and castigated on here in equal parts (mostly the former), but as far
as 'Full Metal Jacket' goes, I'll always wonder whether Godard ever saw
the film. I'll wonder about it based on this comment, and on another
one he made in a 2000 interview that (paraphrasing), to Coppola and to
Kubrick (maybe he mentioned Stone too), the Vietnamese were just
"gooks" -- there was no reverse-shot. Having seen the film (many many
times) it's always been clear to me that part of what Kubrick's picture
is saying is this: "Not only are/were the Vietnamese 'gooks' to the
Americans, but the Americans sold the image of the Vietnamese-as-gooks
back to the Vietnamese-themselves, and this is perhaps one of the
greatest dangers of American imperialism." This standpoint is made
absolutely, perfectly clear in the absolutely very first shot of the
film's second half (throughout the whole sequence in fact, culminating
on the thief performing "kung fu" moves and stealing the American
photographer's / 'image capturer' -- not an insignificant gesture).
The "reverse shot" even arrives literally at the end of the film via
the female sniper -- and this switch/revelation is almost, for me, as
striking as the bone-to-spaceship cut in '2001' -- it opens a
very-fucking-huge can of worms indeed.
Likewise, I wonder whether Jonathan R. can add some insight (I might
have mentioned this on here before, months ago, can't remember) as to
why, when he walked out of a screening of 'Full Metal Jacket' at the
film's release with Sam Fuller, the master himself disconsolately
remarked, "Another film where they're all gooks," or something to that
effect. How or why did both Godard and Fuller see this as just another
bullshit-Hollywood-war-movie?
(Re: Godard/Kubrick, I'd also add, although this too has been discussed
here in the past I think, that JLG includes a long portion of the "Hot
Wheels" sequence from 'The Shining' throughout the "1979" portion of
'The Origin of the XXIst Century' to very moving effect. [no pun
intended] Also, in the same 2000 interview I cite above, while he puts
down 'Full Metal Jacket' he also notes in another section, on the
potential proliferation of dilettantes thanks to the economy and ease
of wielding and shooting MiniDV, [paraphrasing again] "They pick up
these cameras and they think they're Kubrick.")
craig.
12974
From: Craig Keller
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
> (Of course, there's
>> a huge span
>> between the talents of Wilder and Lumet -- surely a
>> sensible man would
>> have had enough cognizance of what he'd wrought to
>> remove his name from
>> the credits of 'Running on Empty'.)
>
> What on earth are you talking about? It's a great film
> -- with River's greatest performance in it.
I find it to be unconscionably sentimental, but to each his own. The
birthday-celebration sing-a-long in the kitchen is embarrassing to
watch, and Judd Hirsch's character is ridiculous. It's like
'Vineland,' except not brilliant.
craig.
12975
From: magaroulian
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:16pm
Subject: Hitchcock [was in thread on Tea and Sympathy (ending)]
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
[snip]
> Robert J. Corbin's badly written but provocative and interesting
book
> In the Name of National Security explores conservative and liberal
> uses of this metaphor in Hitchcock's Cold War films -- not just the
> obvious one, Strangers on a Train, but Rear Window, The Man Who Knew
> Too Much, Psycho and Vertigo, where much is made of Scotty's
> perennial bachelorhood. Take with a grain of salt, and be prepared
> for the worst imitation of Foucault's style in all of American
> letters, but I do recommend it.
That should be Robert J. Corber. Funny how neither 'hotlove666' nor
Patrick McGilligan (in his Hitchcock biography) gets Corber's name
right! McGilligan consistently refers to (Welles authority) Robert L.
Carringer!
Also, it's Scottie, I believe, not Scotty!
Really just wanted to say to people here: the new Hichcock Enthusiasts
& Scholars Yahoo Group is reasonably sophisticated and welcomes new
members. Check out: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/hitchen
Thanks - Ken Mogg (Ed., 'the MacGuffin').
12976
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:28pm
Subject: Re: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
--- Craig Keller
>
> I find it to be unconscionably sentimental, but to
> each his own.
My own:
http://ehrensteinland.com/htmls/g001/river.html
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12977
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:17pm
Subject: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> --- Craig Keller
>
> (Of course, there's
> > a huge span
> > between the talents of Wilder and Lumet -- surely a
> > sensible man would
> > have had enough cognizance of what he'd wrought to
> > remove his name from
> > the credits of 'Running on Empty'.)
>
> What on earth are you talking about? It's a great film
> -- with River's greatest performance in it.
>
>
>
>
> I second David! Lumet IS a sensible man, and RUNNING ON EMPTY is
a fine film, among the best of his later careet.
JPC
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign!
> http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/
12978
From: Zach Campbell
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:55pm
Subject: Re: great stuff on TCM (was Bresson's LE PROCES)
Jaime:
> - EUROPA '51 (Rossellini) - 10/1 at 2am EST
Holy shit.
> - an early Soviet documentary called SALT FOR SVANETIA (anyone
know
> this one?) - 10/8 at 4am EST
This isn't the first time TCM has shown this -- some years ago I saw
this on a tape courtesy Damien. It's a quite good movie, and the
soundtrack TCM plays (played?) with it was kickass, if I recall.
--Zach
12979
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:31pm
Subject: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
wrote:
"...what are the "Kubrick parts" of 'Lawrence of Arabia'?"
I know that Jamie already corrected that slip, but the Andre de Toth
parts of LAWERENCE OF ARABIA are supposedly more extensive than the
Mann parts of SPARTACUS. For years de Toth wouldn't talk about his
uncredited direction, though he did say once, "They paid me a lot of
money not to talk about that." Since then the Lean biography of a
few years ago (by Brownlow if memory serves) acknowledges that de
Toth directed most of the action sequences including the attack on
the retreating column, the attack on Aqaba and the attack on the
train.
Richard
12980
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:53pm
Subject: Re: OT IBS
>
> Not so OT. See the Coens' LADYKILLERS
"Irritable Bowel Singles Weekends" -- worthy of Billy Wilder.
12981
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:55pm
Subject: Re: OT IBS
>
> Pun fact for you, Bill: it's also called Crohn's disease!
>
> -Jaime
Tell me about it. Actually, that's IBD. Big diff. IBS is unpleasant;
IBD can kill you. I used to edit the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation
Newsletter until they crapped out on us. Hah hah hah!
12982
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:58pm
Subject: Re: OT IBS
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
wrote:
> >
> > I'm just researching IBS researchers. Rear echelon type stuff.
> >
> > Pun fact for you, Bill: it's also called Crohn's disease!
>
> I thought Crohn's disease and IBS were different, in that with
Crohn's,
> your body simply can't break down certain foodstuffs or starches
any
> longer -- whereas with IBS, lots of different foods can "set you
off"
> but not in the same manner of extreme discomfort and even physical
pain
> experienced by one suffering from Crohn's. No?
>
> cmk.
Correct. IBD is really no laughing matter. The Coens' were in bounds
chortling about IBS, but they'd have been in deep shit (heh heh) if
they'd made Pancake an IBD sufferer. IBD is Make a Wish time.
12983
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:04pm
Subject: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
wrote:
> >
> > Specifically, a term I made up on the spot.
> >
> > Historically speaking, big-name evictees from the House of
Then we have Godard dismissing
> 'The Killing,' Truffaut praising 'Paths of Glory,' and Godard
praising
> 'Lolita,' before silence from the turks on any subsequent films.
Godard was still ragging on Kubrick when Full Metal Jacket opened. He
went on tv to analyze a sequence to prove it was a bad film. Biette's
last article, as far as I know, was Kubrick's Beard -- a wonderful
investigation of what went wrong/what went right based on seeing
Lolita an admitted seven times, and coming down on the side of Eyes
Wide Shut.
Jean-Pierre Oudart, on the other hand, was brandishing Shining and
Clockwork Orange in the 80s as superior political films to Godard's
and Straub's; Kramer was the other counter-example he brandished
against the sacred duo.
12984
From:
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
Richard Modiano wrote:
>I know that Jamie already corrected that slip, but the Andre de Toth
>parts of LAWERENCE OF ARABIA are supposedly more extensive than the
>Mann parts of SPARTACUS.
Fascinating - I'd never heard about this. I guess most people are aware of
King Vidor's sizable contribution to "The Wizard of Oz"? I've read that he
directed most, if not all, of the Kansas stuff, including "Somewhere Over the
Rainbow," though I've never been able to detect anything especially Vidoresque in
it when I've watched the film in years past. Maybe Tag does; he wrote in his
amazing Vidor essay that "no other director gave Judy Garland comparable
moments."
Did Fred or Jaime ever unearth any substantive information about the movie
made in the late 80s which De Toth supposedly directed some sequences of?
Peter
12985
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:12pm
Subject: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
> David Ehrenstein wrote:
>
> >What on earth are you talking about? It's a great film
> >-- with River's greatest performance in it.
>
> I'm no particular fan of Sidney Lumet, but I do like "Running on
Empty" an
> awful lot. Glad to hear from another fan of it.
>
> Peter
I'd like to see it remade as a musical -- it could be socko. In
defending it in CdC I compared it to Give My Regards to Broadway, one
of the great minor musicals (old thread).
Brian Cook, ad on The Sicilian, in the car going to the airport: "If
you just want a movie, someone like Sidney Lumet will give you one --
and one out of four will be good. But for the big canvas, there are
only three directors: Michael, Stanley and David Lean." Anyone who
knocks Lawrence of Arabia, by the way, will have me to talk to.
12986
From:
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:13pm
Subject: Re: Re: OT IBS
Bill Krohn wrote:
>"Irritable Bowel Singles Weekends" -- worthy of Billy Wilder.
This reminds me that I really ought to reevaluate my prior dismissals of the
Coens in light of my newfound appreciation of Wilder! I think I was out of
town the weekend that their "The Ladykillers" was being discussed; did the Coens
fans here like it?
Peter
12987
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:21pm
Subject: Re: auteur reps (was: pan & scan, re-vewing)
>
> Likewise, I wonder whether Jonathan R. can add some insight (I
might
> have mentioned this on here before, months ago, can't remember) as
to
> why, when he walked out of a screening of 'Full Metal Jacket' at
the
> film's release with Sam Fuller, the master himself disconsolately
> remarked, "Another film where they're all gooks," or something to
that
> effect. How or why did both Godard and Fuller see this as just
another
> bullshit-Hollywood-war-movie?
He called it a recruiting film. Later Christa told me he admired
Kubrick and FMJ too, but walking out of it, that's what he said. I
can suggest one reason: In the restored Big Red One SPOILER when
Marvin and his squad capture a 13-year-old sniper, instead of killing
him, Marvin says to the squad -- "Go ahead. Who wants to do it?" When
there are no takers he takes the kid's pants down and spanks him.
I think the imagery of the squad marching in full formation at the
end of Part 1, so like what WB slapped on the end of Merrill's
Marauders, may have played a role. Up until that point, it could be a
recruiting film, but after that it becomes something else. If you
want to read what I wrote about it in CdC at the time, it was
reprinted in a hefty volume called Incorporations edited by Joanathan
Crary.
12988
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:24pm
Subject: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Modiano"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
> wrote:
> "...what are the "Kubrick parts" of 'Lawrence of Arabia'?"
>
> I know that Jamie already corrected that slip, but the Andre de
Toth
> parts of LAWERENCE OF ARABIA are supposedly more extensive than the
> Mann parts of SPARTACUS. For years de Toth wouldn't talk about his
> uncredited direction, though he did say once, "They paid me a lot
of
> money not to talk about that." Since then the Lean biography of a
> few years ago (by Brownlow if memory serves) acknowledges that de
> Toth directed most of the action sequences including the attack on
> the retreating column, the attack on Aqaba and the attack on the
> train.
>
> Richard
Well I'll be a suck egg mule.
12989
From:
Date: Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:59pm
Subject: Re: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
Bill Krohn wrote:
>Anyone who
>knocks Lawrence of Arabia, by the way, will have me to talk to.
It was on Armond White's Sight & Sound list, so maybe more auteurists like
Lean than one would suspect. I'd give just about anything to see "Ryan's
Daughter" in its proper aspect ratio.
I presume you're aware of this Lean M.I.A.:
http://imdb.com/title/tt0296729/combined
By the way, Aaron, did you catch any of the Keith Gordon episodes of "Night
Visions"? Being a big fan of his, I watched for the show when it first aired,
but could never find it; I believe it was syndicated. Unfortunately, when I
interviewed Keith we didn't discuss any of his TV work.
Peter
12990
From: Aaron Graham
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 0:17am
Subject: Re: pan & scan, re-vewing (was: Storytelling/Remakes/Intelligence)
> By the way, Aaron, did you catch any of the Keith Gordon episodes
of "Night
> Visions"? Being a big fan of his, I watched for the show when it
first aired,
> but could never find it; I believe it was syndicated.
Unfortunately, when I
> interviewed Keith we didn't discuss any of his TV work.
>
> Peter
Peter -
I've not seen the Keith Gordon episodes, but luckily my girlfriend
was a fan of the show and taped most of them. I'll be able to run off
those for you, along with the Dante we discussed off-list.
Personally, I'd like to check out Tobe Hooper's contribution to
the series. And while on the subject of TH, has anyone seen his
episode for the short-lived "Perversions of Science"? The premise was
fantastic: two aliens, who are stranded on earth, overhear Orson
Welles' famous "War of the Worlds" broadcast and believe it's their
planet calling.
-Aaron
-Aaron
12991
From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 0:37am
Subject: completely off-topic
But since most of us movie people are into the anti-Bush campaign...
If you live in Chicago and can watch the 10 pm news (NBC and CBS, though NBC has
better footage), I'm on there, as the sole protestor at the site where Bush visited the
home of (AON executive) Pat Ryan for a Republican fundraiser today.
My neighborhood, in the Northeast suburbs of Chicago, is probably one of the most
staunchly Replublican in the entire country, and I was jeered away, and nearly
attacked by one 16 year old, who told me that "no one wanted me".
A woman on the news is asked about my reaction, and says that I probably "don't
know anything about politics".
I was followed home by a police car.
Gabe
12992
From: Nick
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:11am
Subject: Re: completely off-topic
> A woman on the news is asked about my reaction, and says that I
> probably "don't
> know anything about politics".
>
> I was followed home by a police car.
Good going Gabe!
The worst thing that could happen now is for another 9/11 to take
place, and support for Bush to multiply for him to "continue what he's
doing". I'd love to see some outspoken, charged Democratic attacks on
Bush... they seem to be getting very few digs in... (or are they
leaving that to Mike Moore?)
FWIW, everyone I talk to in the UK is anti-Bush, there's great
anti-Bush, anti-war feeling here. What's hard to believe, from the UK,
is how the polls are so close at the moment.
Any pro-Bush UK folk on the list?
-Nick Wrigley>-
12993
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:14am
Subject: Re: completely off-topic
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Gabe Klinger"
wrote:
> But since most of us movie people are into the anti-Bush campaign...
>
> If you live in Chicago and can watch the 10 pm news (NBC and CBS,
though NBC has
> better footage), I'm on there, as the sole protestor at the site
where Bush visited the
> home of (AON executive) Pat Ryan for a Republican fundraiser today.
>
> My neighborhood, in the Northeast suburbs of Chicago, is probably
one of the most
> staunchly Replublican in the entire country, and I was jeered away,
and nearly
> attacked by one 16 year old, who told me that "no one wanted me".
>
> A woman on the news is asked about my reaction, and says that I
probably "don't
> know anything about politics".
>
> I was followed home by a police car.
>
> Gabe
Too bad you weren't wearing an a_film_by t-shirt. We need to have
those made.
12994
From: Jonathan Rosenbaum
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:20am
Subject: Re: auteur reps (was: pan & scan, re-vewing)
In a coffee shop afterwards, Sam also emphasized to Bill and me that
he never liked training films of any kind, so this one got him off
on the wrong foot. And whether or not he actually used the
term "recruiting film"--he may have, but I don't recall it--he did
say that he thought some teenage guys might think from watching this
movie that fighting in wars was neat, or words to that effect. But
he didn't say a word about "gooks". In fact, the one thing he liked
without reservation about the film, and which he enthusiastically
praised in subsequent interviews as well, was the Vietnamese woman
sniper's look of hatred.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
> >
> > Likewise, I wonder whether Jonathan R. can add some insight (I
> might
> > have mentioned this on here before, months ago, can't remember)
as
> to
> > why, when he walked out of a screening of 'Full Metal Jacket' at
> the
> > film's release with Sam Fuller, the master himself
disconsolately
> > remarked, "Another film where they're all gooks," or something
to
> that
> > effect. How or why did both Godard and Fuller see this as just
> another
> > bullshit-Hollywood-war-movie?
>
> He called it a recruiting film. Later Christa told me he admired
> Kubrick and FMJ too, but walking out of it, that's what he said. I
> can suggest one reason: In the restored Big Red One SPOILER when
> Marvin and his squad capture a 13-year-old sniper, instead of
killing
> him, Marvin says to the squad -- "Go ahead. Who wants to do it?"
When
> there are no takers he takes the kid's pants down and spanks him.
>
> I think the imagery of the squad marching in full formation at the
> end of Part 1, so like what WB slapped on the end of Merrill's
> Marauders, may have played a role. Up until that point, it could
be a
> recruiting film, but after that it becomes something else. If you
> want to read what I wrote about it in CdC at the time, it was
> reprinted in a hefty volume called Incorporations edited by
Joanathan
> Crary.
12995
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:40am
Subject: Geoffrey O'Brien on F9/11
From a piece by the author of The Phantom Empire in the NY Review of
Books:
The movie works by the primal curiosity that lured people into
nickelodeons, the desire to see what comes next in the string of
attractions; and unlike some of those nickelodeon operators, Moore
makes good on the promise. The blankly stunned face of George W.
Bush, already informed about the Trade Center attacks, as he
continues to sit in a Florida elementary school classroom reading My
Pet Goat with the kids—regardless of how you read it and regardless
of Moore's intrusive voice-over—is what most viewers of Fahrenheit
9/11 will take away with them, and it isn't something you could have
stayed home and watched on TV.
It is curious that many people will go to see this movie simply to
get a closer look at the President. There is a gap between any chief
executive and his public image, but the mysteriously absent presence
of Bush the Second— the sense that he is being endlessly displayed
yet fundamentally withheld from view—still seems singular, and in
consequence Moore is able to get extraordinary mileage out of moments
that are not in themselves shocking revelations: Bush flexing his
mouth in what looks like a weird grin before announcing that the war
had started, or fumbling the old "Fool me once, shame on you" line,
or segueing from talk of terrorism to a demonstration of his golf
swing, moments that will probably have more subtly destructive impact
than all the mustering of information about Saudi investments or the
greed of Halliburton.
We are invited to contemplate the evolution of George W. Bush's
physiognomy over time—or rather the persistence of certain traits
which become odder the longer one looks at them: the cracked, side-of-
the-mouth smile, the withdrawn gaze, the equal capacity to express
haplessness and guile. Eventually Bush becomes a kind of punctuation
mark, his remarks seeming increasingly off-key or unfeeling when
placed against scenes of gathering horror and grief. This might of
course be taken as a belated tribute to the Russian director Lev
Kuleshov's famous demonstration of how the expression of a filmed
face appears to change depending on what other footage it is
juxtaposed with. On the other hand, it's hard to imagine a more
piercing quick sketch than the August 1992 interview in which Bush
brags almost naively about the enviable "access to power" he enjoys,
his father being the president: a moment topped only by the footage
of Bush delivering his famous "I'm a war president" remark with a
spasmodic detachment that has to be seen to be believed . . . .
Simply by making the recent past visible—by bringing these little
pieces of reality into the movie theater—Moore unleashes a reservoir
of feeling. It's almost like the symbolic breaking of a spell: we can
begin to remember everything that we had almost started to forget.
Fahrenheit 9/11 serves as a necessary reminder that, to put it in the
simplest terms, we need to see and hear more than the government and
the various news channels allow us to see and hear. We need to play
back the tapes to refresh our memory of what seems consigned to
instant oblivion even as it unfolds. We need to see those images —of
Americans and Iraqis alike wounded and dying, for example— that
American television tends to withhold, as if the reality of the war
could thereby be kept at bay. Michael Moore's version of what has
been happening lately is only one possible narrative; but by its very
existence it encourages a more active, more confrontational approach
to the images that surround us, anything to break through the numbing
effect of the endless flow of TV news broadcasts and official
bulletins that has become something like the wallpaper of a distorted
public reality, a stream of images that moves forward without ever
looking back.
12996
From: Craig Keller
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:49am
Subject: Re: Re: auteur reps (was: pan & scan, re-vewing)
> In a coffee shop afterwards, Sam also emphasized to Bill and me that
> he never liked training films of any kind, so this one got him off
> on the wrong foot. And whether or not he actually used the
> term "recruiting film"--he may have, but I don't recall it--he did
> say that he thought some teenage guys might think from watching this
> movie that fighting in wars was neat, or words to that effect. But
> he didn't say a word about "gooks". In fact, the one thing he liked
> without reservation about the film, and which he enthusiastically
> praised in subsequent interviews as well, was the Vietnamese woman
> sniper's look of hatred.
Yes -- I was just going to reply to Bill's email earlier that I'd
confused Godard's phrase with what you'd actually written Fuller had
remarked -- something more to the effect that it was a recruiting film.
I've got the 'Incorporations' book in my Amazon queue now, Bill --
thanks for pointing me towards this!
craig.
12997
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:10am
Subject: Re: Geoffrey O'Brien on F9/11
Is that the whole piece?
Typical excellence from O'Brien: he finds a side door and a quicker
route to a film's center (or one of them, in this case).
I particularly liked this passage:
> placed against scenes of gathering horror and grief. This might of
> course be taken as a belated tribute to the Russian director Lev
> Kuleshov's famous demonstration of how the expression of a filmed
> face appears to change depending on what other footage it is
> juxtaposed with.
Woo-hoo! I wonder if he knew about this when he wrote his article:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/a_film_by/message/11688
-Jaime
12998
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:11am
Subject: Re: great stuff on TCM (was Bresson's LE PROCES)
Peter:
> PARTY GIRL (Ray) Thursday, July 29, 12:15 PM
You're in for a treat, Peter!
-Jaime
12999
From: Jaime N. Christley
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:28am
Subject: Re: completely off-topic
Bravo, Gabe.
And thanks for broaching the topic of protest. By way of coincidence
I was thinking about what I was going to do for the RNC, besides work
on my screenplay or see LOS ANGELES PLAYS ITSELF at Film Forum.
What I'm probably going to do is this: set up a table near Union
Square or Washington Square Park, somewhere where I don't have to fear
being trampled on or dwarfed by a larger demonstration, and hang a
sign from it that will say KERRY-HATERS FOR KERRY. Now, I don't
*hate* Kerry. I've been reading some of his web site and his plans
sound promising on some issues. But what bugs me is that his plans
overall have the air of criticizing "how things were done" instead of
"that they were done at all."
The impetus reflected in my joke title translates to a strong desire
to remove Bush from Office and to make my country safer, my economy
and job market stronger (I'm a temp and I've been looking for a job
for about nine months), and to take the relations my country has with
other countries back from the brink. I think voting for John Kerry is
the first step in doing this, hence I'm for him while I'm also for
electoral reform and addressing the root causes of our problems,
rather than painting over them and calling it a day.
Anyway, at this table I just want to talk to people about the above,
and to go into greater detail. I was inspired by an entry in Zach's
blog in which he compared an effective and an ineffective anti-Bush
protest in February. I'm all for effective, reasoned, and
well-prepared protest and dissent.
I also have an idea for buttons that say "reluctant voter." Are these
not allowed in the voting booth? It seems like they'd qualify as
being non-partisan.
-Jaime
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Gabe Klinger"
> But since most of us movie people are into the anti-Bush campaign...
>
> If you live in Chicago and can watch the 10 pm news (NBC and CBS,
though NBC has
> better footage), I'm on there, as the sole protestor at the site
where Bush visited the
> home of (AON executive) Pat Ryan for a Republican fundraiser today.
>
> My neighborhood, in the Northeast suburbs of Chicago, is probably
one of the most
> staunchly Replublican in the entire country, and I was jeered away,
and nearly
> attacked by one 16 year old, who told me that "no one wanted me".
>
> A woman on the news is asked about my reaction, and says that I
probably "don't
> know anything about politics".
>
> I was followed home by a police car.
>
> Gabe
13000
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:47am
Subject: Re: Re: great stuff on TCM (was Bresson's LE PROCES)
>>- EUROPA '51 (Rossellini) - 10/1 at 2am EST
>
> Holy shit.
If someone in NYC tapes this or wants to have a communal screening,
please let me know. - Dan
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