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Posts From the Internet Film Discussion Group, a_film_by
This group is dedicated to discussing film as art
from an auteurist perspective. The index to these files of posts can be found at http://www.fredcamper.com/afilmby/ The purpose of these files is to make our posts more accessible, for downloading and reading and to search engines.
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14601
From: Matt Teichman
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:37pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ok, you asked for it, Camper
hotlove666 wrote:
>This is all pretty Platonic.
>
But isn't that the beauty of film, that no one can figure out whether
it's abstract or concrete?
>But no, I hear you cry: Films can exist in multiple copies, each as good as the
>others, so this is not an "aura" question. I agree. It is strictly a question of how
>well something can be reproduced. With digital technology, I assume that my
>friend's hoarded Life With Father beaverboards could be duplicated and
>viewed in a format that makes possible the scales-falling-from-the-eyes effect
>I experienced yesterday, without changingh the fact that the originals have
>"aura."
>
>
Some films have an aura. Ever project a roll of reversal?
You're probably right that it's a matter of quality; when Netflix starts
renting out hard drives carrying HD transfers I doubt we'll have quite
as much to complain about.
-Matt
14602
From: peckinpah20012000
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:55pm
Subject: Re: The Classical Hollywood Cinema
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein >
>
> Although this thread is reaching its creative conclusion, I
thought I'd add a few thoughts. It began as a critique of the
BORDWELL, STAIGER, THOMPSON text then went into several diversions
that intuitively undercut the monolithic nature of that work as with
discussions fo DESERT FURY and LEAVE HER TO HEAVEN.
But, Robin Wood mentioned years ago (1977) in "Ideology, Genre,
Auteur," that it is a mistake to believe genres are rigid since they
are really different ways of attempting to address common ideological
issues.
Much depends on seeing as many films as possible as members of this
group have often stated as well as written (Jonathan R. and Tag
Gallagher's essay on the Western in FILM GENRE READER and elsewhere).
As a result, recognizing the complexity is so important especially
when comparing MY DARLING CLEMENTINE to RIDE THE HIGH COUNTRY and
seeing that "early Ford" (my italics) is not actually as optimistic
about civilization as genre definers have believed in the past.
Classification is helpful at first but only to begin a process of
showing how rules are often broken - in creative ways.
Tony Williams
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
14603
From: Damien Bona
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:26pm
Subject: Re: Fuller's "Shark"
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
> There are a number of special features, including interviews
> with Jerry Rudes, Vincent Sherman, and Eric Sherman (who I recently
interviewed
> about working with Welles on "The Other Side of the Wind").
Peter, why is Vincent Sherman interviewed? What is the connection
between the director of Harriet Craig and Shark?
-- Damien
14604
From: Maxime Renaudin
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:30pm
Subject: Re: Women's pictures
Bill wrote
>The more commonly used term today is melodrama, but a
>melodrama w. a female protagonist is pretty much destined to
>be a women's picture, no matter whether the guys get dragged
Walong or not.
I have no idea of what is a women's picture. But I have a little
idea on what I like.
When the cineaste creates a vacuum around the characters, solitary
shipwrecked of a tormented story, at some improbable crossroads.
When only remains, through the naked cries and faces, the beauty of
the true and unspeakable feelings. When there is the world, and
only there.
Let's call it melodrama.
And if a woman's heart is at stake, I won't turn down my pleasure in
front of her burning tears.
Line Noro in Mater Dolorosa (Gance, 31), Kinuyo Tanaka in The Woman
in the Rumor (Mizoguchi, 54), Elisabeth Müller in Rosen für Bettina
(Pabst, 56). Their distresses leave me imperishable memories of
Cinema.
I was not dragged there along by accident, I found there what I was
looking for.
BTW, is there any great melo with a male protagonist?
Maxime
14605
From: Maxime Renaudin
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:48pm
Subject: Re: Women's pictures (Ida Lupino)
A few woman's pictures she made, no?
Rather OT, I'd be curious to know if there are some relevant
critical studies/interviews on her work. Didn't find much up to now.
Just came across an old issue of Film Comment with an extensive
article by Ronnie Scheib (?). Just a glance at it, but sounds rather
sociological.
More on topic, he introduces Never Fear as "the interreaction of a
claustrophobic "woman's picture" emotionalism [rather pleonastic,
no?]and a full-frame documentary realism"...
Maxime
14606
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:53pm
Subject: Re: Re: Women's pictures
--- Maxime Renaudin wrote:
>
> BTW, is there any great melo with a male
> protagonist?
>
"Grief" and "Swoon," both starring the matchless Craig
Chester.
"The Servant" with Dirk Bogarde and James Fox
"Performance" with James Fox and Mick Jagger
"To Kill a Mockingbird" with Gregory Peck
"A Place in the Sun" with Montgomery Clift
"Rocco and his Brothers" with Alian Delon and Renato
Salvatore
"Eve" with Stanley Baker
"Stavisky. . ." with Jean-Paul Belmondo and Stephen
Sondheim
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14607
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:04pm
Subject: Re: The Classical Hollywood Cinema
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
I'm an outright James Cruze fan, and even liked SUTTER'S
> GOLD.)
Welles loved The Covered Wagon for some reason. But Sutter's Gold is
horrible!
14608
From:
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:02pm
Subject: Re: Re: Fuller's "Shark"
Damien,
>Peter, why is Vincent Sherman interviewed? What is the connection
>between the director of Harriet Craig and Shark?
I was wondering that myself. I haven't had time to look at the interview
yet, so I can't say. I can see Eric Sherman being interviewed, as Eric knew and
interviewed Fuller.
Peter
14609
From: Maxime Renaudin
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:18pm
Subject: Re: Women's pictures
Stavisky? a melo? I'm perplexed.
even The Servant...
With some difficulty, I'm finally found two candidates:
Fox and his friends (Fassbinder) and Once more (Vecchiali)
Incidentally, two films about gay protagonists made by gay directors!
But unquestionable melos, no?
Maxime
--- David wrote:
>> BTW, is there any great melo with a male
>> protagonist?
>>
>"Grief" and "Swoon," both starring the matchless Craig
>Chester.
>
>"The Servant" with Dirk Bogarde and James Fox
>
>"Performance" with James Fox and Mick Jagger
>
>"To Kill a Mockingbird" with Gregory Peck
>
>"A Place in the Sun" with Montgomery Clift
>
>"Rocco and his Brothers" with Alian Delon and Renato
>Salvatore
>
>"Eve" with Stanley Baker
"Stavisky. . ." with Jean-Paul Belmondo and Stephen
Sondheim
14610
From: Matt Teichman
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:20pm
Subject: cinematheques
What with all this talk of screening films on film...
...wouldn't it be worthwhile for a_film_by to compile a list of
cinematheques around the world? Is this group not in an ideal position
to accomplish such a task?
Of the places I've been to (admittedly very few), New York and Paris are
by far the best for film viewing. But it would be interesting to learn
of other cities that offer a comparable selection of screenings. I
assume London has something going on.
-Matt
14611
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:32pm
Subject: Re: Women's pictures (Ida Lupino)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime Renaudin"
wrote:
> A few woman's pictures she made, no?
>
> Rather OT, I'd be curious to know if there are some relevant
> critical studies/interviews on her work. Didn't find much up to now.
>
> Just came across an old issue of Film Comment with an extensive
> article by Ronnie Scheib (?). Just a glance at it, but sounds
rather
> sociological.
> More on topic, he introduces Never Fear as "the interreaction of a
> claustrophobic "woman's picture" emotionalism [rather pleonastic,
> no?]and a full-frame documentary realism"...
>
> Maxime
Ronnie Scheib is a she, and she's a damn good critic. She refurbished
her Film Comment piece for book form publication in my AMERICAN
DIRECTORS (1983). On Lupino you might also check out the entry in "50
ans de cinema americain". (entry co-written by Tavernier and myself).
JPC
14612
From: Maxime Renaudin
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:32pm
Subject: Re: cinematheques
a few ones
http://www.ledoux.be
http://www.cinematheque.ch
http://www.cinemathequefrancaise.com/ (plus great occasional
programs at Beaubourg http://www.centrepompidou.fr/)
http://www.bfi.org.uk/
See also http://www.mastersofcinema.org/ (scroll down to "film
institutes")
Maxime
14613
From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:56pm
Subject: Re: cinematheques
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Matt Teichman wrote:
> What with all this talk of screening films on film...
>
> ...wouldn't it be worthwhile for a_film_by to compile a list of
> cinematheques around the world? Is this group not in an ideal position
> to accomplish such a task?
There are hundreds all over the world -- check out www.fiafnet.org, go to
Membership Information and click 'directory'.
Bear in mind just because a venue is NOT a Fiaf affiliate, doesn't mean it's not a
"cinematheque". Chicago, for example, doesn't have any Fiaf-associated venues, yet
there are several archival prints shown every week.
14614
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 0:00am
Subject: Re: Re: Women's pictures
--- Maxime Renaudin wrote:
> Stavisky? a melo? I'm perplexed.
> even The Servant...
>
Definitely. Belmondo is playing a variation on a Joan
Crawford good/bad girl.
Bogarde is Lizbeth Scott in "Too late For Tears."
> With some difficulty, I'm finally found two
> candidates:
> Fox and his friends (Fassbinder) and Once more
> (Vecchiali)
> Incidentally, two films about gay protagonists made
> by gay directors!
> But unquestionable melos, no?
>
Correct. Forgot about the Fassbinder.
I've never seen the Vecchiali -- and long to.
His "Corps a Coeur" is one of my favorite "woman's
pictures."
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14615
From: Damien Bona
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 0:01am
Subject: Re: Women's pictures
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime Renaudin"
wrote:
> BTW, is there any great melo with a male protagonist?
>
Minnelli's The Cobweb, The Bad and the Beautiful and Some Came
Running; Nick Ray's Bigger Than Life; Sirk's There's Always Tomorrow
14616
From: Maxime Renaudin
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 0:07am
Subject: Re: Women's pictures (Ida Lupino)
JPC wrote
>On Lupino you might also check out the entry in "50
>ans de cinema americain". (entry co-written by Tavernier and
myself).
In this entry (excellent if I may say so, notably your analysis of
the way she handles sets and locations), you mention few of the TV
production. Have you any recommandations? Noticed that episodes of
The Twilight Zone and The Rifleman were available on DVD. Got
Thriller on tape, but haven't watched it yet.
>Ronnie Scheib is a she, and she's a damn good critic. She
>refurbished her Film Comment piece for book form publication
>in my AMERICAN DIRECTORS (1983).
I'll spread my glance...
Maxime
14617
From: George Robinson
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 0:12am
Subject: Re: Re: Women's pictures
Also, Home From the Hill
g
He that would make his own liberty secure
must guard even his enemy from oppression;
for if he violates this duty he establishes
a precedent that will reach to himself.
--Thomas Paine
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime Renaudin"
> wrote:
> > BTW, is there any great melo with a male protagonist?
> >
>
> Minnelli's The Cobweb, The Bad and the Beautiful and Some Came
> Running; Nick Ray's Bigger Than Life; Sirk's There's Always Tomorrow
14618
From: Craig Keller
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:10am
Subject: Criterion November releases...
Criterion announced their November line-up today at their site -- maybe
more titles to come. Altman's 'Short Cuts' and the five-disc 'Fanny
and Alexander' box set (five-hour TV version + theatrical version [also
to be made available separately] + 'Dokument 'Fanny och Alexander' ').
cmk.
14619
From:
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:13pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ok, you asked for it, Camper
I've heard that the earliest art historians were rich people who could afford
to travel across the world and see the originals. More of that privilege Matt
finds so ridiculous...
Kevin "has never beent to Paris" John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
14620
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:21am
Subject: Re: Ok, you asked for it, Camper
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:
> I've heard that the earliest art historians were rich people who
could afford
> to travel across the world and see the originals. More of that
privilege Matt
> finds so ridiculous...
>
> Kevin "has never beent to Paris" John
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kevin, if you really want to go to Paris, I can get you a nice
place to stay free.
14621
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:22am
Subject: Re: Women's pictures
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime Renaudin"
> wrote:
> > BTW, is there any great melo with a male protagonist?
> >
>
> Minnelli's The Cobweb, The Bad and the Beautiful and Some Came
> Running; Nick Ray's Bigger Than Life; Sirk's There's Always
Tomorrow
Has anyone mentioned A STAR IS BORN yet?
14622
From: Noel Vera
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:24am
Subject: Re: Cronenberg (Was: So no one else believes in "good bad acting"?)
>
> Hey I didn't know you were a twin, Noel! Granted what
> you're saying, doon't you think it would have been
> more interesting with actual twins?
I mention it once in a while in Peoplesforum and even Table Talk. I
suppose you missed it and everyone else thought I was joking, but
I'm perfectly serious. Identical twins. His name is Joel.
I guess you're right David, but how many twins can really act? You
did mention someone (or a set of someone), and that might work
better, but I thought Irons worked fine as is.
14623
From:
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:28pm
Subject: Re: Ok, you asked for it, Camper
I think art historians' real work has always centered on photographs.
My sister says that today's art books are the "real information
superhighway".
Let's not underestimate video, DVD and cable TV. One can learn so much from
them. And at very little cost. Seeing "Some Came Running" is a stupendous
visual experience. TCM regularly shows it letterboxed.
Mike Grost
14624
From:
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:34pm
Subject: Re: Cronenberg (Was: So no one else believes in "good bad act...
I thought the Kemp brothers were wonderful in "The Krays" (Peter Medak). The
Kemps are not twins, just brothers, although they play twins in the movie.
Years ago I mildly enjoyed the TV movie "Twin Detectives". Would it stand up
today?
Mike Grost
14625
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:57am
Subject: Re: Ok, you asked for it, Camper
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> Some thoughts: Have read that Art History began essentially with
the
> invention of photography in the 1800's. It allowed scholars to build
collections of
> black and white photos of paintings. They could then compare them,
discover
> artist's individual styles, note chronological development, etc. The
originals are
> just too scattered to do this. The auteur theory works on paintings,
too:
> there is nothing like looking at two paintings by an artist side by
side, and
> having the artist's personal style suddenly leap out at you! Usually
one can only
> do this with photos of the paintings, preferably the largest color
> reproductions you can find.
That's interested me as well. It might be also the case that
photography allowed the stylistic similarities among works in
different media to become apparent, such that objects as dissimilar
as cathedrals and easel paintings, costume and furniture, could
through photography be compared and contrasted in terms of
visual style.
Also, the reputations of several artists may have suffered as artists'
reputations began to depend on photographic reproductions. For
example, someone suggested that the decline in reputation of
Guido Reni and the Caracci, for example, might be because their
painterly qualities don't photograph well.
Paul
14626
From: Craig Keller
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:27am
Subject: Eisenstein / Fuller
Two questions of not much urgency:
(1) With discussion having turned briefly to Eisenstein, I was
wondering if anyone here knows whether or not the existence of a lost
and/or mythological Eisenstein film 'Unterwelt,' as appears in the long
stretch in DeLillo's 'Underworld,' has any basis in fact, or whether
it's purely fictional. I posed this question about a year and a half
ago on an ill-fated listserv I started before I knew of the existence
of a_film_by, and didn't get any conclusive answers. In fact, I might
have asked this here as well a long time ago, but don't remember
whether I received any answers.
(2) What were some of the changes made between Fuller's cut of 'Street
of No Return' and the released version (now out on disc from Fantoma)?
I adore this film, but hadn't known until recently that Fuller didn't
have final cut. One of the most interesting things about the picture,
if I remember correctly, is the topsy-turvying of racial "typing" by
putting the black street-kids in t-shirts for thrash metal bands.
craig.
14627
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:32am
Subject: Re: Art History & Reproduction (Was Ok, you asked for it, Camper)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
"I think art historians' real work has always centered on
photographs."
What about Vasari's "Lives of the Artists" of 1568? He's generally
regarded as the daddy of Western art history and he did his research
by travelling all over the Italian peninsula mostly on foot (and he
went to Greece too at great peril, also went hungry some of the
time. His research trip is a story in itself. Too bad Rosselini
never made a movie about him.)
From the early Renaissance until the rise of the art academy in the
late 17th century aspiring painters and sculptors travelled all over
Europe for the purpose of viewing the works of the masters and earned
their bread by employment at workships along the way (journeymen they
were called.) These men (and a few women) kept notes and diaries and
laid the groundwork for later art history, and art histories were
being written before the advent of photography.
"My sister says that today's art books are the 'real information
superhighway'. Let's not underestimate video, DVD and cable TV. One
can learn so much from them. And at very little cost."
Thanks to computer imaging book reproductions have improved vastly,
but the best books are not cheap. And still fidelity is
problematic. What survives in painting reproductions is the drawing
and the design but not the color. Also with some paintings size
matters, as in the case of "Guernica" done in the gray scale but
painted on a huge ground which is one of the factors that makes it so
powerful. Personally, I wouldn't trust art criticism based only on a
viewing of a reproduction.
On the other hand, graphic works can be reproduced with remarkable
fidelity. Fratelli & Co. in Florence specializes in old master
drawing reproductions, and I've been able to compare some of these
copies to the originals so I can testify that the quality is
excellent. They even go to the trouble of using paper with similiar
tone and tooth of the original. Animation cells also lend themselves
to accurate reproduction as does comic book art, but painting is
another matter entirely.
Richard
14628
From:
Date: Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:37pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ok, you asked for it, Camper
In a message dated 8/26/04 8:22:05 PM, jpcoursodon@y... writes:
> Kevin, if you really want to go to Paris, I can get you a nice place to
> stay free.
>
I'll hold you to that. Thanx! Clearly, being part of this fine list is one
sort of privilege.
Kevin John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
14629
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:38am
Subject: Re: Eisenstein / Fuller
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
wrote:
"... With discussion having turned briefly to Eisenstein, I was
wondering if anyone here knows whether or not the existence of a lost
and/or mythological Eisenstein film 'Unterwelt,' as appears in the
long stretch in DeLillo's 'Underworld,' has any basis in fact, or
whether it's purely fictional."
DeLilo was asked about it in an interview and said it was a fictional
conceit. His novel "Running Dog" concerns the efforts of several
disparate groups of people who are trying to get hold of a
pornographic film made by a Nazi filmmaker showing the goings on
during the last days of Hitler in his bunker.
Richard
14630
From: Craig Keller
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:44am
Subject: Re: Re: Eisenstein / Fuller
>
> DeLilo was asked about it in an interview and said it was a fictional
> conceit. His novel "Running Dog" concerns the efforts of several
> disparate groups of people who are trying to get hold of a
> pornographic film made by a Nazi filmmaker showing the goings on
> during the last days of Hitler in his bunker.
Very interesting. Also on the subject of DeLillo and film, when asked
who he'd like to see direct a screen version of 'Underworld' (it had
been -- is still? -- optioned at one point), he said, "Bertolucci --
but the Bertolucci of old, the Bertolucci of 'The Conformist.' "
cmk.
14631
From: Zach Campbell
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:53am
Subject: Re: Art History & Reproduction (Was Ok, you asked for it, Camper)
Richard:
> Thanks to computer imaging book reproductions have improved
> vastly, but the best books are not cheap.
You can say that again. Even used, books with decent reproductions
are prohibitively expensive if you're, for instance, a perpetually
broke student like myself. The only good art books I own are ones
that I've had to buy as textbooks. Places like the Artchive and
Artcyclopedia are nice online resources, though, particularly if you
already know a painting and are willing to compromise on color for
the pleasure of studying other aspects of a work at your leisure.
Photography certainly was a spur in the field of art history;
another was museums. (Required reading on this is Malraux's THE
VOICES OF SILENCE, of course.) Of course the trickiest art form as
far as "privilege" goes is architecture--there simply is no
substitute for actually seeing the great churches, mosques,
monuments, and other buildings of the world. And even when one sees
them, they are usually only echoes of what they were originally ...
It's impossible to always have the best vantage point for viewing
any art; it's incredibly impractical to have the best vantage point
even more than a small fraction of the time. All we can do is be
honest about the compromises we are forced to make (glass in front
of a painting, a medieval church "restored" in the 17th century, a
director's cut irrevocably mangled by the studio--or the ravages of
time) and use our reasoning skills as best we can to point out what
we might know but cannot prove.
--Zach
14632
From: Craig Keller
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:05am
Subject: Re: Re: Art History & Reproduction (Was Ok, you asked for it, Camper)
>
>> Thanks to computer imaging book reproductions have improved
>> vastly, but the best books are not cheap.
>
> You can say that again. Even used, books with decent reproductions
> are prohibitively expensive if you're, for instance, a perpetually
> broke student like myself. The only good art books I own are ones
> that I've had to buy as textbooks. Places like the Artchive and
> Artcyclopedia are nice online resources, though, particularly if you
> already know a painting and are willing to compromise on color for
> the pleasure of studying other aspects of a work at your leisure.
There was an interesting piece in the NY Times a few days ago --
unfortunately the article has lapsed into pay only, but the following
is the abstract from the site (and with a Google you can easily find
out more) --
For Art History Scholars, Illumination Is a Click Away
By KAREN W. ARENSON (NYT) words
Late Edition - Final , Section B , Page 9 , Column 3
DISPLAYING FIRST 50 OF WORDS - Doctors have stethoscopes. Plumbers
have wrenches. And art-history professors have ... Or at least that's
the way it has been. But now, a vast digital library of world art has
gone online with its first 300,000 images. The project -- known as
ARTstor and financed by the Andrew W. Mellon...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
14633
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:20am
Subject: Re: Women's pictures (Ida Lupino)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime Renaudin" wrote:
> In this entry (excellent if I may say so, notably your analysis of
> the way she handles sets and locations), you mention few of the TV
> production. Have you any recommandations? Noticed that episodes of
> The Twilight Zone and The Rifleman were available on DVD. Got
> Thriller on tape, but haven't watched it yet.
It's been a long time since I saw that episode of The Twilight Zone.
I recall it as being a very moralistic Rod Serling script -- I don't
like when the Twilight Zone got self-righteous.
Not the most prestigious TV show -- but there's a memorable
episode of Gilligan's Island directed by Ida Lupino, in which
Phil Silvers is a famous Broadway director who becomes stranded
on the island and together with castaways stages a musical
version of Hamlet set to the score of Carmen.
Paul
14634
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:28am
Subject: Re: Re: Cronenberg (Was: So no one else believes in "good bad acting"?)
--- Noel Vera wrote:
>
> I guess you're right David, but how many twins can
> really act? You
> did mention someone (or a set of someone), and that
> might work
> better, but I thought Irons worked fine as is.
>
>
Laurent and Pierre Malet (look them upon IMDB) both
gay
(Pierre had an affair with Chereau at the time of "Les
Paruvents") and while they look identical you tell
them apart temperamentally quite easily.
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14635
From: Noel Vera
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:07am
Subject: Re: Cronenberg (Was: So no one else believes in "good bad acting"?)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein >
>Laurent and Pierre Malet (look them upon IMDB) both
> gay
> (Pierre had an affair with Chereau at the time of "Les
> Paruvents") and while they look identical you tell
> them apart temperamentally quite easily.
Hm. If I remember right, the twins from the Bari Wood novel
Cronenberg based his film on (titled--surprise, surprise--"Twins")
shared each other's women. Were they lovers (to each other) as well?
14636
From: Joseph Kaufman
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:16am
Subject: Re: Fuller's "Shark"
>I had to skip to finish my Ringer article for Spirit, but I snuck in
>and saw the
>ambush sequence under the cross. Looked fine to me. Glad I'm thanked.
>Actually, I had always assumed that that sequence was the least mutilated in
>the film, but Richard said there was more, and Sunday I did indeed see a
>fuller version (no pun etc.). Can't wait to see the whole thing at
>Torino. How'd
>you like it, Joe?
I thought it was terrific. A much "rounder" experience with the
extra 50 or 55 min. put in, and Lee Marvin's performance has only
gotten better. The panel afterwards (Mark Hamill, Bobby Carridine,
Adam Greenberg et al) described how helpful Marvin was to the other,
younger actors.
Robert Koehler (sp?) called THE BIG RED ONE the best American movie
of 2004 so far, and it's easy to agree.
--
- Joe Kaufman
14637
From: Adam Hart
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:11am
Subject: Re: Playtime in 70mm in Chicago
obviously, everyone needs to go see playtime as many times as
possible. if there ever was a movie that was changed completely by a
video transfer, this is it. tati shot in 70mm so he could stay in
mid and long shots but still have the resolution of a closeup.
videos and dvds just don't have the capacity to hold that much
information. for those who have only seen it on video: were you even
aware that tati placed cardboard cutouts (and very obvious ones - he
wasn't just trying to make the crowds look bigger) all over his
compositions? you can't even see them on the criterion dvd.
however, i first saw it on video. and then i saw it again, and
again, and again, and again... the great thing about this is that i
saw the 70mm print last spring after i had seen the movie on dvd or
video about 8 or 10 times, and seeing it in the cinema for the first
time really gave me the experience of seeing it again for the very
first time. i should warn tati-philes, though, that if this is the
same print that played seattle's festival last spring, it's the
english language version. tati did the sound mix himself (and my
friends who saw it for the first time didn't even notice anything
was off about it), but for those of you (like me) who have the
dialogue memorized, it will be a little different. tati tries to
create narrative explanations for why his characters are speakin
english, so there are a lot of lines like: "well, i just arrived
from britain and..." from characters who were originally french.
i just wonder who thinks that a few less subtitles is going to
detract from the audience who would be searching out playtime anyway.
14638
From:
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:22am
Subject: Re: Re: Cronenberg (Was: So no one else believes in "good bad acting"?)
Paul Gallagher wrote:
>but nonetheless the films are filled with powerful images --
>and oddly the images become more elegant, beautiful, and adroit
>in memory, at least for me.
I certainly have found this to be true and it was confirmed to me when I saw
the amazing, often masterful "Spider" in theatres a year ago. Following the
first shot, which moves forward past a bunch of people exiting a train in order
to locate Fiennes' character, I believe the entire film is seen from that
character's perspective. The viewer is put inside his mind - visually and on
every other level. One can almost begin to see why Amy Taubin put it on her
Sight & Sound Top 10 of All-Time.
Peter
14639
From: Joseph Kaufman
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:56am
Subject: Re: Playtime in 70mm in Chicago+ Take That Fred!
Exerpting Bill:
>Pursuing the idea that there are no films, only versions thereof, I
>saw Playtime
>in 70 at the Academy and later at the Cinematheque. There was no
>comparison. The Academy has a big screen and optimum Stereo
>presentation. It was like being on acid. The Cinematheque, with its more
>modest means, was a disappointment.
Bill, I always felt the sound at the Egyptian was superior to the
Academy. It's maybe the only movie theater I've ever been in that
has what I'd call audiophile sound (in terms of a really detailed and
pleasurable and natural, not hyped-up midrange, where most of the
important sonic information is).
The screen obviously isn't as big, but it's still way bigger than
most theaters these days, and the projection hews as closely as
possible to SMPTE standards in terms of light level, masking, et al.
The Academy is the wealthiest film-oriented organization in the
world, and they do have the best projectors to be had (including one
of only five 2K digital projectors in the world, from what Michael
Mann said). The Cinematheque has many money problems, as we know,
but I think they do a pretty good job given the givens.
--
- Joe Kaufman
14640
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:56am
Subject: Re: Re: Poire, furriners (Was: Spielberg mustn't do TINTIN)
>>Poire - there's a name you don't hear every day. I saw and rather
>>enjoyed his LES PETITS CALINS, with the wonderful, sadly missed
>>Dominique Laffin. Then he had that popular success with LES VISITEURS,
>>which I never caught. Which of his films do you like best?
>
> My favorite is "Operation: Corned Beef", not as subtle as "Les
> Visiteurs", but the team of Clavier and Reno is the best since Funes
> and Marais (I would personally love to see a remake of "Fantomas" with
> Clavier and Reno) and it just gives hell.
>
> Poiré simply is a brat. In "Dracula and Son", the son of Dracula,
> locks his nanny out of the house and giggles as she dies by the rising
> sun, because she demanded him to go to bed. With the same mischief in
> mind does he write and direct.
On the heels of this conversation, Poire's MA FEMME...S'APPELLE MAURICE
is opening in NYC tomorrow. Anyone have an opinion of it? - Dan
14641
From: Nick Wrigley
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:43am
Subject: Re: Re: Playtime in 70mm in Chicago
> (and very obvious ones - he wasn't just trying to make the crowds
> look bigger) all over his compositions? you can't even see them on the
> criterion dvd.
The Criterion DVD is badly framed, made from a 35mm dupe, and OOP.
They're reissuing it soonish with a new HD transfer from 70mm, as well
as both versions of JOUR DE FETE (the bfi are releasing PLAYTIME in
Sept and JOUR DE FETE in November).
I got a nice German DVD of TRAFIC last week, sourced from Studio Canal
in France (it's not even out in France), and it's gorgeous looking.
choice of French or German audio, only German subs.
-Nick>-
14642
From: Matt Teichman
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:52am
Subject: Re: cinematheques
Gabe Klinger wrote:
>There are hundreds all over the world -- check out www.fiafnet.org, go to
>Membership Information and click 'directory'.
>
>Bear in mind just because a venue is NOT a Fiaf affiliate, doesn't mean it's not a
>"cinematheque". Chicago, for example, doesn't have any Fiaf-associated venues, yet
>there are several archival prints shown every week.
>
>
Wow. Nice list. Thanks for the link.
Still, it does leave you wondering which places are actually worth
travelling to. Wouldn't it be neat to be able to think, "I wonder if I
should go to Poona..." and then check up on what a_film_byers have to
say about the venues there (one of which screens in 70mm whenever
possible, or so I've heard)? Something like the group's best-of lists,
maybe.
-Matt
14643
From: Matt Teichman
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:53am
Subject: Re: Re: Ok, you asked for it, Camper
LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:
>I've heard that the earliest art historians were rich people who could afford
>to travel across the world and see the originals. More of that privilege Matt
>finds so ridiculous...
>
>
Not quite sure what this means. All I found ridiculous was the idea
that whether or not films should be viewed on film is an issue that
matters only to the "privileged."
-Matt
14644
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:26am
Subject: Re: Fuller's "Shark"
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
I can see Eric Sherman being interviewed, as Eric knew and
> interviewed Fuller.
>
> Peter
Eric and I wrote the first Big Red One restoration budget together in
1993. He's quite a character -- his son is named Cosimo after the
Rossellini trilogy.
14645
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:31am
Subject: Re: Cronenberg (Was: So no one else believes in "good bad acting"?)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Noel Vera"
> Hm. If I remember right, the twins from the Bari Wood novel
> Cronenberg based his film on (titled--surprise, surprise--"Twins")
> shared each other's women. Were they lovers (to each other) as well?
Yes. The sharing in the film is a repressed gay thing. The fact that
the Ironses can't touch given the state of then-current digital
technology -- until the last "Liebestod" shot, which I don't know how
they did -- becomes thematic in the film.
I don't know what the hell Dan is thinking ragging on that movie --
it's perfect!
14646
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:33am
Subject: Re: Cronenberg (Was: So no one else believes in "good bad act...
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> I thought the Kemp brothers were wonderful in "The Krays" (Peter
Medak). The
> Kemps are not twins, just brothers, although they play twins in the
movie.
> Years ago I mildly enjoyed the TV movie "Twin Detectives". Would it
stand up
> today?
>
> Mike Grost
No one has mentioned the Olsen twins, who seem to be living a real-
life Dead Ringers. Incidentally, there WAS a real case -- that's what
the novel was based on.
14647
From:
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:45am
Subject: TV: Lupino, Webb, Ozzie, SF
That Gilligan's Island episode was a childhood favorite of mine. Am startled
and pleased to learn it was directed by Ida Lupino. It was one of the
delightful bits of whimsy that popular culture sometimes throws off. Oddly enough, the
show is respectful towards both Hamlet and Carmen. It suggests, if memory
serves, that there are unexplored possibilities, if we would just look more
deeply at the culture around us.
I never was a big fan of either Jack Webb or Ozzie & Harriet as a kid.
Probably for the same reason that others on the list liked them: their minimalism!
Even as a kid, I seem to have been an anti-minimalism person. Instead, I liked
the rich complexity of such 1960's science fiction shows as "The Outer Limits"
and "Star Trek". And the brilliant variety comedy series of Jackie Gleason
and Carol Burnett. Another favorite, "Hank" (1965-1966) about a guy too poor to
afford college, so he sneaks into classes around campus to get an education.
He was a "college drop-in". "Burke's Law" is also fun.
Jack Webb at least gets credit for individuality. The best Dragnet seen here
was the one about two con men who go around pretending to be members of the
LAPD. The two men do a devastating parody of Sgt Friday and partner, before they
are caught by the real cops. This was a nicely done self parody.
Mike Grost
14648
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: Cronenberg (Was: So no one else believes in "good bad acting"?)
--- Noel Vera wrote:
>
> Hm. If I remember right, the twins from the Bari
> Wood novel
> Cronenberg based his film on (titled--surprise,
> surprise--"Twins")
> shared each other's women. Were they lovers (to each
> other) as well?
>
>
Yes. And so were the real-life twins on which the
novel was based. Cronenberg suggests this as well,
though he doesn't really go into it very much -- the
fact that he's using one actor making it impossible.
Cronenberg'sreal interest is creating a orror film in
which the ultimate horro is the complete dissolution
of one personality into another.
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14649
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:39pm
Subject: Re: Re: KINGS ROW
> They did it anyway and selected the
> most conservative and less adventurous of directors -- Sam Wood -- to
> direct this explosive material. Whatever there is of interest
> visually in the film is due to William Cameron Menzies's production
> design and James Wong Howe's photography. The direction is static and
> wooden like in all of Wood's films.
I dunno, I've seen only six Wood movies, but I don't think he's that
bad. There's a little bit of intelligence in there, maybe only in the
direction of actors. KINGS ROW is okay, and HOLD YOUR MAN even had a
little interest. - Dan
14650
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:49pm
Subject: Re: Poire, furriners (Was: Spielberg mustn't do TINTIN)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > My favorite is "Operation: Corned Beef", not as subtle as "Les
> > Visiteurs", - Dan
LES VISITEURS "subtle"? You got to be kidding! It's one of the
trashiest of French low comedies I have ever seen. Even if one
approaches it the way one does The Three Stooges (subtlety rising
from the very excess of dumbness).
14651
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:29pm
Subject: Re: KINGS ROW
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > They did it anyway and selected the
> > most conservative and less adventurous of directors -- Sam Wood --
to
> > direct this explosive material. Whatever there is of interest
> > visually in the film is due to William Cameron Menzies's
production
> > design and James Wong Howe's photography. The direction is static
and
> > wooden like in all of Wood's films.
>
> I dunno, I've seen only six Wood movies, but I don't think he's
that
> bad. There's a little bit of intelligence in there, maybe only in
the
> direction of actors. KINGS ROW is okay, and HOLD YOUR MAN even had
a
> little interest. - Dan
I agree that HOLD YOUR MAN is pretty good (fine script by Anita
Loos) but there isn't much else to praise. It was ironic that this
arch-conservative and reactionary was assigned to direct two of the
Marx Bros. movies (well, I know McCarey was conservative too!). He
proceeded to follow Thalberg's instructions and watered down the
Marxs' comedy, injecting "love interest", syrupy songs, awful
production numbers...(the best parts of OPERA and RACES are the ones
that most resemble the spirit of DUCK SOUP, which Thalberg considered
a flop because it was non-stop comedy) ... James Wong Howe told
Charles Higham: "Sam Wood just directed the actors; he knew nothing
about visuals." According to Howe, Menzies storyboarded KINGS ROW and
told him where to place the camera. "He'd even specify the kind of
lens he wanted for a particular shot... Menzies created the whole
look of the film." And Wood's direction of actors is often incredibly
static: two actors face each other and talk and talk, never moving an
inch (his idea of movement is to put them in a vehicule). Wood's
major stylistic trait is the enormous closeup (Bergman's in BELL are
ravishing). He used big closeups not only of the stars, but of
character actors and even horses (BELL)... His last film, AMBUSH, was
his only western and is not bad -- the opening looks like the
beginning of Mann's NAKED SPUR (I've always wondered whether Mann
might have had a hand in it). I rather like OUR TOWN and COMMAND
DECISION but little else.
14652
From:
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:39am
Subject: Re: Re: Playtime in 70mm in Chicago
In a message dated 8/27/04 1:01:02 AM, voltafilms@y... writes:
> for those who have only seen it on video: were you even aware that tati
> placed cardboard cutouts
>
I've seen it on film and, no, I wasn't EVEN aware of the cutouts. Are you
gunna spank me now? I can't recall if it was EVEN a 70mm print but I seriously
doubt it. Are you gunna spank me for not seeing it in 70mm? Are you gunna spank
me for not EVEN remembering if I saw it in 70mm or not?
Kevin John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
14653
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: Poire, furriners (Was: Spielberg mustn't do TINTIN)
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
>
>>>My favorite is "Operation: Corned Beef", not as subtle as "Les
>>>Visiteurs", - Dan
>
> LES VISITEURS "subtle"? You got to be kidding!
Just to make it clear, it wasn't me who said that - the only Poire film
I've seen is LES PETITS CALINS. I think it was Henrik. - Dan
14654
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:54pm
Subject: Re: Art History & Reproduction (Was Ok, you asked for it, Camper)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Modiano"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
>
> "I think art historians' real work has always centered on
> photographs."
>
> What about Vasari's "Lives of the Artists" of 1568? He's generally
> regarded as the daddy of Western art history and he did his
research
> by travelling all over the Italian peninsula mostly on foot (and he
> went to Greece too at great peril, also went hungry some of the
> time. His research trip is a story in itself.
I think the argument, correct or not, would be that Vasari's
approach was mainly biographical, and would be distinguished
from modern art history. This might be unfair to Vasari.
I'd guess that the study of the history of style would be most
affected by photography. My impression is that at the end of the
19th century the following ideas took hold: each artist has a
personal style, there are national styles, there are period
styles, and the role of art history is to study the principles
and history of style. Of course, this is an oversimplification.
Paul
14655
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: Playtime in 70mm in Chicago
--- LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:
> >
> I've seen it on film and, no, I wasn't EVEN aware of
> the cutouts. Are you
> gunna spank me now? I can't recall if it was EVEN a
> 70mm print but I seriously
> doubt it. Are you gunna spank me for not seeing it
> in 70mm? Are you gunna spank
> me for not EVEN remembering if I saw it in 70mm or
> not?
>
Yes!
(In "Toby Dammit" Fellini makes similar use of
cardboard cut-outs.)
>
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14656
From: Sam Adams
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:38pm
Subject: More good news for Altman fans
First Criterion saves me from shelling out for the R2 Short Cuts, and now Columbia has just announced CALIFORNIA SPLIT for a Nov. 2 release. Audio commentary with cast and crew, too.
Sam
14657
From: Craig Keller
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: KINGS ROW
> He proceeded to follow Thalberg's instructions and watered down the
> Marxs' comedy, injecting "love interest", syrupy songs, awful
> production numbers...(the best parts of OPERA and RACES are the ones
> that most resemble the spirit of DUCK SOUP, which Thalberg considered
> a flop because it was non-stop comedy) ...
But isn't one of the most remarkable parts of 'A Day at the Races' (and
in all '30s Hollywood cinema?) the outdoor production number with the
black workers?
craig.
14658
From: Craig Keller
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:17pm
Subject: Re: Re: Playtime in 70mm in Chicago
>
> Yes!
>
> (In "Toby Dammit" Fellini makes similar use of
> cardboard cut-outs.)
And don't forget 'Last Year at Marienbad' and Hitchcock's silhouette.
Or, for that matter, the circus audience in 'Lola Montès.'
cmk.
14659
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:30pm
Subject: Re: Art History & Reproduction (Was Ok, you asked for it, Camper)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
"I think the argument, correct or not, would be that Vasari's
approach was mainly biographical, and would be distinguished
from modern art history. This might be unfair to Vasari."
Vasari's approach was biographical to the extent of chronicling the
professional lives of his subjects (he treated their private lives
perfunctorily.) He described their apprenticeships and workshop
experiences under thier masters and then noted the emergence of the
individual style of each artist and its relation to different
schools, etc. and finally examined their various signature works.
Maybe he was the first auterist critic.
"I'd guess that the study of the history of style would be most
affected by photography. My impression is that at the end of the
19th century the following ideas took hold: each artist has a
personal style, there are national styles, there are period
styles, and the role of art history is to study the principles
and history of style. Of course, this is an oversimplification."
That's a very reasonable surmise, but the writers of art histories in
the 19th century still went to the source (the early art histories
are illustrated by steel engravings rather than photographs, but
maybe engravings were cheaper to do than photographs at that time.)
Art historiographiy was developed with the rise of the art academies
during the late 17th century with early attempts at creating a
taxonomy of period, national style and personal style, and did in
fact attain the state of development you describe by the end of the
19th century. The role of photography in all this is at present open
to question in my view. My main point is that the critc or historian
of painting, sculpture and especially (as noted by Zach)architecture
is obliged to actually examine the work in question and not a
photographic reproduction, and than present his or her conclusions
with the best illustrations available (I'm not advocating art books
without illustrations.)
Richard
14660
From: Matt Teichman
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:41pm
Subject: Re: Poire
I haven't seen all that much Poire, but _Papy Fait de la Resistance_ is
a very interesting film. You're already in rather insane waters when
you set out to make a broad comedy about the Holocaust.
-Matt
14661
From: Nick Wrigley
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: Playtime in 70mm in Chicago
> > Yes!
> >
> > (In "Toby Dammit" Fellini makes similar use of
> > cardboard cut-outs.)
>
> And don't forget 'Last Year at Marienbad' and Hitchcock's silhouette.
> Or, for that matter, the circus audience in 'Lola Montès.'
Or Murnau's fantastic shenanigans in the THE LAST LAUGH.
-Nick>-
14662
From: Robert Keser
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:56pm
Subject: Re: KINGS ROW
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > I dunno, I've seen only six Wood movies, but I don't think he's
> > that bad. There's a little bit of intelligence in there, maybe
> > only in the direction of actors. KINGS ROW is okay, and HOLD
> > YOUR MAN even had a little interest. - Dan
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
> I agree that HOLD YOUR MAN is pretty good (fine script by Anita
> Loos) but there isn't much else to praise...James Wong Howe told
> Charles Higham: "Sam Wood just directed the actors; he knew
>nothing about visuals." ...And Wood's direction of actors is often
>incredibly static: two actors face each other and talk and talk,
>never moving an inch (his idea of movement is to put them in a
>vehicle). Wood's major stylistic trait is the enormous closeup
>(Bergman's in BELL are ravishing). He used big closeups not only of
>the stars, but of character actors and even horses (BELL)... I
> rather like OUR TOWN and COMMAND DECISION but little else.
Let's put in a word for Wood's MADAME X, which certainly works as a
melodrama and is probably the best of the four versions (Lionel
Barrymore's static staging is surely the worst). Also, KITTY FOYLE
and THE DEVIL AND MISS JONES both have a certain class-conscious
edge that practically signposts the end of the New Deal (the latter
title, with Robert Cummings playing the fighting union organizer,
seems all the more ironic given Wood's there-are-commies-in-the-
woodpile politics). One of the most interesting titles, though
little-known, is IVY, the extremely plush Victorian poisoning melo,
but its effectiveness can also be charged up to Menzies along with
the creamy white photography of Russell Metty.
Of course, that leaves things like the insufferable SARATOGA TRUNK
(shot in technicolor but apparently only available in b/w now), the
oppressive FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS, and the ultra-hokey PRIDE OF THE
YANKEES (milking those cute immigrant parents for laffs).
--Robert Keser
14663
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:42pm
Subject: Re: Playtime in 70mm in Chicago
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Nick Wrigley wrote:
> > > Yes!
> > >
> > > (In "Toby Dammit" Fellini makes similar use of
> > > cardboard cut-outs.)
> >
> > And don't forget 'Last Year at Marienbad' and Hitchcock's
silhouette.
> > Or, for that matter, the circus audience in 'Lola Montès.'
>
>
> Or Murnau's fantastic shenanigans in the THE LAST LAUGH.
>
Or the audience for the premiere of Plan 9 in Ed Wood.
BTW, I recommend sitting CLOSE to the 70mm Playtime.
14664
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:44pm
Subject: Re: KINGS ROW
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Keser" wrote:
> > > I dunno, I've seen only six Wood movies, but I don't think he's
> > > that bad. There's a little bit of intelligence in there, maybe
> > > only in the direction of actors. KINGS ROW is okay, and HOLD
> > > YOUR MAN even had a little interest. - Dan
Dan already commented on this in a very early thread started by my
question: Are all directors (even bad ones) auteurs?
14665
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:47pm
Subject: Re: KINGS ROW
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Keser"
wrote:
> > > > I dunno, I've seen only six Wood movies, but I don't think
he's
> > > > that bad. There's a little bit of intelligence in there,
maybe
> > > > only in the direction of actors. KINGS ROW is okay, and HOLD
> > > > YOUR MAN even had a little interest. - Dan
>
> Dan already commented on this in a very early thread started by my
> question: Are all directors (even bad ones) auteurs?
Unfortunately it's practically impossible to dig up an early (or even
recent) post unless you have the post number.
14666
From: peckinpah20012000
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:39pm
Subject: Re: Cronenberg (Was: So no one else believes in "good bad act...
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> > I thought the Kemp brothers were wonderful in "The Krays" (Peter
> Medak). The
> > Kemps are not twins, just brothers, although they play twins in
the
> movie.
>> > Mike Grost
>
>. I've read somewhere that a new Kray movie will soon be released in
England with hard man Ray Winstone playing both Reggie and Ronnie.
Tony Williams
14667
From:
Date: Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:53pm
Subject: Re: KINGS ROW
Very interesting posts on Sam Wood!
Have only seen a little of this director. Thought "Goodbye, Mr. Chips" the
absolute pits, despite the one time huge (pre-auteurist) reputation of this film.
"Paid" (1930) with Joan Crawford has its moments. This is a drama about a
working girl who is railroaded to prison by her employer, and her revenge. The
film is not as good as the original stage play, Bayard Veiller's "Within the
Law," (1912). The original is full of liberal social commentary that someone has
stripped out in this talkie version (there are all silent versions I have not
seen) - maybe the right wing Wood. In fact, have wondered if the original play
might have influenced the modern-day sections of "Intolerance" (D. W.
Griffith, 1916). There is the same idea about businessmen cutting the wages of their
workers, to make a splash by giving to charity.
In any case, Joan chews the scenery in "Paid", and is worth watching, if you
are in the right mood. This is still no classic.
Have wanted to see "Beyond the Rocks" forever. It teams Valentino with Gloria
Swanson, and the still of them embracing is everywhere in film books.
Mike Grost
PS - The Royal Canadian Air Farce, a hilarious comedy series on Canadian
radio, once did a sketch about a cable TV network that was sponsored by a Potato
council, and was full of product placements for potatoes. Among the movies they
showed were "MASH" and "Goodbye, Mr. Chips".
14668
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 0:44am
Subject: David Ehrenstein Presents
On Sunday September 12 at 5 PM at the American
Cinematheque in Los Angeles I will be introducing the
most heavy-duty double features of all time:
"Performance" by Donald Cammell and Nicholas Roeg,
followed by Ken Russell's "The Devils."
If William Castle were handling things a nurse's
station would be set up in the lobby. I shall do my
best to explain that all this madness is quite sane.
Be There or Be Square.
__________________________________
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14669
From: Damien Bona
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:06am
Subject: Re: KINGS ROW
Based on Our Town and Kings Row, one might conclude that Sam Wood had
a real knack for evoking the look and feel of small-town America.
But then you realize that Menzies was the production designer on
these two films, and must conclude that that's where the credit
lies.
Wood's output is pretty grim. Like Mike, I find Goodbye Mr. Chips to
be one of those official classics that are nearly impossible to sit
through MGM sentimentality at its ickiest. Ivy is a straight-
forward psychological suspense film with not one iota of suspense.
But worst of all is The Stratton Story, a mawkish biography about a
jerk who lost his leg while hunting rabbits (serves him right, I say)
and still succeeds as a baseball pitcher. It's told in an incredibly
ponderous style by Wood -- the film's slow as molasses and the sepia-
toned cinematography makes it seem even more primitive. Wood somehow
even managed to drain all life out of Frank Morgan.
On the other hand, Wood's other baseball biography, Pride of the
Yankees, is notable for the lovely interaction between the wonderful
Teresa Wright and Gary Cooper (although when they reteamed for Wood
in Casanova Brown, the results were deadly -- romantic comedy was
definitely not Wood's forte).
Also not devoid of interest is For Whom The Bell Tolls, which above
all features an incandesent, passionate performance by Ingrid
Bergman. The relationship between Bergman and Gary Cooper is
startlingly adult and carnal for its time, and the design of the film
is highly impressive (again, praise to William Cameron Menzies, with
whom Wood worked over half-a-dozen times). Given Wood's extreme
right-wing politics, Hemingway's Spanish Civil War novel was a
surprising project for the director, but his political philosophy
comes through in that we SEE the Loyalists throwing fascists over a
cliff (admittedly, a pretty remarkable scene) but we only HEAR about
atrocities committed by Franco's people.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> Very interesting posts on Sam Wood!
> Have only seen a little of this director. Thought "Goodbye, Mr.
Chips" the
> absolute pits, despite the one time huge (pre-auteurist) reputation
of this film.
14670
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:19am
Subject: Re: David Ehrenstein Presents
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> On Sunday September 12 at 5 PM at the American
> Cinematheque in Los Angeles I will be introducing the
> most heavy-duty double features of all time:
> "Performance" by Donald Cammell and Nicholas Roeg,
> followed by Ken Russell's "The Devils."
>
> If William Castle were handling things a nurse's
> station would be set up in the lobby. I shall do my
> best to explain that all this madness is quite sane.
>
> Be There or Be Square.
>
> WOW! Believe it or not, David, two of my favorites from the dim
seventies. I'll be there in spirit. Wish I were there bodily too...
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
14671
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:24am
Subject: Re: David Ehrenstein Presents
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> If William Castle were handling things a nurse's
> station would be set up in the lobby. I shall do my
> best to explain that all this madness is quite sane.
>
> Be There or Be Square.
>
>
> Have you thought of male nuurses, David?
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
14672
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:28am
Subject: Re: Re: David Ehrenstein Presents
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
> > Have you thought of male nuurses, David?
Good idea!
_______________________________
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14673
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:39am
Subject: Re: David Ehrenstein Presents
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
On Sunday September 12 at 5 PM at the American
Cinematheque in Los Angeles I will be introducing the
most heavy-duty double features of all time:
'Performance' by Donald Cammell and Nicholas Roeg,
followed by Ken Russell's 'The Devils.'"
Outasight brother! Should we do acid or ecstasy? What will Bill be
on?
Richard
14674
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:48am
Subject: Re: TV: Lupino, Webb, Ozzie, SF
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> That Gilligan's Island episode was a childhood favorite of mine.
Mine too. I saw "Surviving Gilligan's Island," in which Bob Denver,
Dawn Taylor, and Russell Johnson reminisced about the show, if
I remember correctly, that was their favorite episode as well.
> I never was a big fan of either Jack Webb or Ozzie & Harriet as a
kid.
Me neither. I'll have to designate them "Subjects for Further
Research." I just recently saw "He Walked by Night," which
apparently was the inspiration for "Dragnet."
> Even as a kid, I seem to have been an anti-minimalism person.
Instead, I liked
> the rich complexity of such 1960's science fiction shows as "The
Outer Limits"
> and "Star Trek". And the brilliant variety comedy series of Jackie
Gleason
> and Carol Burnett.
I grew up watching a lot of TV. Only very rarely did I watch movies,
either on TV or in the theater. I'm curious whether most cinema
lovers started their love of movies in childhood or later in life.
Paul
14675
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:44am
Subject: Re: TV: Lupino, Webb, Ozzie, SF
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
> I grew up watching a lot of TV. Only very rarely did I watch movies,
> either on TV or in the theater. I'm curious whether most cinema
> lovers started their love of movies in childhood or later in life.
>
> Paul
I started my love of movies in childhood. There was no television
when I was a child. Some of my earliest memories are of movies. The
very earliest is, I'm afraid, of a Fernandel movie, and I must have
been five or six. Fernandel movies were ubiquitous in France during
the war years, and I built up a solid hatred of them, but that didn't
turn me off movies.I even wrote a review of Les Visiteurs du soir in
a letter to my father... I was ten when the war ended and American
movies started being released -- I vividly recall my first western (a
Technicolor one)and sitting in the front row, glued to the screen...
A cowboy was riding alongside a train and jumped on the observation
deck ot the last car in a low angle shot. I wish I could remember the
title... In 1945 just after the liberation of Paris the US Air Force
(I guess) set up a gigantic screen underneath the Eiffel Tower and
showed color footage of air fights, an incredible experience for me.
The next year -- I think --
I saw The Thief of Bagdad on the huge screen of the Paris Gaumont
Palace, the largest movie theatre in Paris. The Gaumont Palace used
to open up the screen even wider (although of course retaining the
proper aspect ratio) for some key scenes, and for Thief of B. it was
the genie coming out of the bottle. Even sitting in the balcony you
were immersed in the picture. WOW!
14676
From: Adam Hart
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:44am
Subject: Re: Playtime in 70mm in Chicago
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:
> Are you gunna spank me for not seeing it in 70mm?
Ummm... where the hell did this come from? Whatever you think of the
film vs video debate, Playtime really is a different film when not
seen in its original form. So the point is: who cares what you've
seen before? My pick for the greatest movie ever made is circulating
in 70mm, so my recommendation is to see it. Jesus. -adam
14677
From: Damien Bona
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:41am
Subject: Hank (was TV: Lupino, Webb, Ozzie, SF)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
Another favorite, "Hank" (1965-1966) about a guy too poor to
> afford college, so he sneaks into classes around campus to get an
education.
> He was a "college drop-in". "
Wow, Mike, I thought I was the only one alive with fond memories
of "Hank" (or any recollection of it at all). Who knows how it would
hold up today, but for my 10-year-old self Fridays on NBC at 8pm (I
guess that for you in Central Time it was 7pm) were always set aside
for this highly enjoyable show, and Dick Kallman was delightful in
the title role. The only pleasure I received from the execrable The
Green Mile was the presence of Dabbs Greer as the aged Tom Hanks --
because Greer was, of course, was the Coach in Hank. I can still
vividly recall the opening credits, with Hankd shown in his various
guises (didn't he have an ice cream stand on campus?).
My absolute favorite that season though came on ninety minutes later
on CBS: The Smothers Brothers Show (the sit-com, not the variety
show). And, Mike, do these favorites from the 1966-'67 season have
any resonance for you -- Occasional Wife and Hey, Landlord?
14678
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:26am
Subject: Childhood filmgoing (Was:TV: Lupino, Webb, Ozzie, SF)
> I grew up watching a lot of TV. Only very rarely did I watch movies,
> either on TV or in the theater. I'm curious whether most cinema
> lovers started their love of movies in childhood or later in life.
My profile is like yours: lots of TV as a child, not a lot of moviegoing
until college. - Dan
14679
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:42am
Subject: Re: Re: David Ehrenstein Presents
--- Richard Modiano wrote:
> Outasight brother! Should we do acid or ecstasy?
Definitely acid.
> What will Bill be
> on?
>
Beer.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
14680
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:44am
Subject: Re: Re: TV: Lupino, Webb, Ozzie, SF
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
> I saw The Thief of Bagdad on the huge screen of the
> Paris Gaumont
> Palace, the largest movie theatre in Paris. The
> Gaumont Palace used
> to open up the screen even wider (although of course
> retaining the
> proper aspect ratio) for some key scenes, and for
> Thief of B. it was
> the genie coming out of the bottle. Even sitting in
> the balcony you
> were immersed in the picture. WOW!
>
>
You cannot imagine how important "The Thief of Bagdad"
was to me as a child.
Sabu c'est moi!
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
14681
From: Damien Bona
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:52am
Subject: Re: Childhood filmgoing (Was:TV: Lupino, Webb, Ozzie, SF)
I was hooked on movies from the get go, starting with my first,
Wyler's The Big Country seen at Wildwood, New Jersey at age 3. From
then on, I couldn't get enough, and other early films I can vividly
remember seeing include Minnelli's Gigi, Tashlin's Cinderfella, The
Tingler, various Disney films like The Shaggy Dog, Old Yeller and
Sleeping Beauty. My favorite at age 5 was Journey To The Center Of
The Earth, and when my parents took me with them to The Apartment
when I was 5 I thought I was the most sophisticated kindergarten
student alive (and that movie made me pine for the day when I'd go to
office Christmas parties).
Of course TV was an important part of my day-to-day existence, and
early favorites included kids' shows (especially Shari Lewis, Clyde
Kerschcup [spelling?], Captain Kangaroo and Andy's Gang), and such
long-forgotten programs as Yancy Derringer, Tombstone, Sugarfoot, The
Beachcomber, Jim Bowie, Bourbon Street Beat, and The Hathaways,
starring Jack Weston, Peggy Cass and The Marquis Chimps.
But movies always held a sway over me, and I pretended I had my own
movie theatre from age 4 on. I would draw posters and lobby cards,
and I can still remember some of my movie stars: Amy Lawrence, To
Holly, and, for the teenagers, Cranky Avalon.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > I grew up watching a lot of TV. Only very rarely did I watch
movies,
> > either on TV or in the theater. I'm curious whether most cinema
> > lovers started their love of movies in childhood or later in life.
>
> My profile is like yours: lots of TV as a child, not a lot of
moviegoing
> until college. - Dan
14682
From: Noel Vera
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 7:06am
Subject: Re: Cronenberg (Was: So no one else believes in "good bad acting"?)
> Cronenberg'sreal interest is creating a orror film in
> which the ultimate horro is the complete dissolution
> of one personality into another.
A tendency that twins are constantly aware of and do their best to
resist, hence this playing up of differences.
14683
From: Damien Bona
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 7:16am
Subject: Re: Jack Webb, was: Movie character tyrants as directions
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
>
> Webb's style is exceeddinglyterse and minimalist. He
> doesn't go for visual effects atall. Everything is
> propelled by the Q & A of the investigating
> detectives.
It's because of Webb's reductive style that Dragnet was so memorable
when it was dealing with drugs. Those hepped-up kids high on pot and
other junk just burst through the constraints of the minimalist
Dragnet universe, emphasizing the dangerous and destructive nature of
these illegal substances. I remember with particular fondness the
youngster who was tripping and thought he was a freight train and,
accordingly, knocked everything off an officer's desk in the police
station. Sgt. Friday was not amused. Nor was his parnter, Officer
Bill Gannon.
-- Damien
14684
From:
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:28am
Subject: Angel, Angel, Down We Go (1969)
I cannot believe I've lived this long without seeing this amazing, amazing
film. It starts off wildly campy a la Beyond The Valley of the Dolls or select
John Waters. But the tone becomes more mournful and pensive. Director Robert
Thom doesn't know how to break up space so many, many scenes function as
tableaux. And often, the characters don't face one another. It's all quite frontal
including the dialgoue which at times is little more than a string of strident
monologues. I take it all as a critique of the extreme self-absorption of some
factions of the American counterculture.
And the cast! Roddy McDowall, Lou Rawls, Holly Near (looking VERY Tracy
Turnblad) and Jennifer Jones?!?? How the hell did this film happen? And Jennifer
Jones. What a bizarre career. She wins an Oscar very early on for the freakin
Song of Bernadette. marries Robert Walker and David O. Selznick, is nominated
for many Oscars and stars in some of the most screaming films of all-time: Duel
in the Sun, the jaw-dropping Ruby Gentry, Beat The Devil, this one. And then
she ends it all with a dive off The Towering Inferno. Huh? Did she ever write
an autobiography?
In any event, I adored Angel, Angel, Down We Go. Would make a great double
feature with The Color of Pomegranates.
Kevin John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
14685
From: Samuel Bréan
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:20am
Subject: RE: Re: Women's pictures (Ida Lupino)
>From: "Maxime Renaudin"
>Reply-To: a_film_by@yahoogroups.com
>To: a_film_by@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Women's pictures (Ida Lupino)
>Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:48:39 -0000
>
>A few woman's pictures she made, no?
>
>Rather OT, I'd be curious to know if there are some relevant
>critical studies/interviews on her work. Didn't find much up to now.
There's a monograph on Ida Lupino: "Queen of the B's," edited by Annette
Kuhn (1995). It's available at the BPI in Paris ;-)
There are a few articles in an issue of "Positif" from the 1980's, I don't
have the exact reference.
Samuel.
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail : bientôt 250 Mo de stockage !
http://www.imagine-msn.com/hotmail/fr-fr/
14686
From:
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:14am
Subject: Re: Hank (was TV: Lupino, Webb, Ozzie, SF)
Damien Bona writes:
Wow, Mike, I thought I was the only one alive with fond memories of "Hank"
(or any recollection of it at all). Who knows how it would hold up today, but
for my 10-year-old self Fridays on NBC at 8pm were always set aside for this
highly enjoyable show, and Dick Kallman was delightful in the title role. The
only pleasure I received from the execrable The Green Mile was the presence of
Dabbs Greer as the aged Tom Hanks -- because Greer was, of course, was the
Coach in Hank. I can still vividly recall the opening credits, with Hank shown
in his various guises (didn't he have an ice cream stand on campus?).
Hank is listed in IMDB - the writers are billed as Tony Adair and his partner
James Allardice. Allardice is famous for writing all of Hitchcock's
introductions to his TV shows, as well as the trailer for Psycho, etc. I do not know if
this means that Adair & Allardice wrote every episode of Hank - or whether
they just wrote one, but are the only writers known to the IMDB...
My childhood memories say that Hank was a bubbly comedy, rich in invention,
warmth and humane values. I LOVED the Coach on the show. Hank was undercover on
campus, sneaking into classes, and he would frequently run around campus. He
was a natural athlete, and would set speed records. Coach would see him, and
want to sign him up for the school's teams. Only Hank would disappear as fast
as possible, and pretend he didn't exist. The poor Coach was forever
frustrated... The Coach's wife was also great. She spent all her time watching a soap
opera called "Happy Valley, USA". Naturally, everyone on it had the most tragic
problems imaginable.
Damien continues:
My absolute favorite that season though came on ninety minutes later on CBS:
The Smothers Brothers Show (the sit-com, not the variety show). And, Mike,
do these favorites from the 1966-'67 season have any resonance for you --
Occasional Wife and Hey, Landlord?
I almost mentioned Hey, Landlord in my previous post! It was a favorite too.
This was about two young guys who managed a brownstone in NYC, and all their
zany tenants. Michael Constantine was superb as their best tenant. And the show
was the debut of Sally Field, if memory serves. She played the hero's sister
in a couple of well-loved episodes.
Unfortunately, never saw Occasional Wife.
I remember The Smothers Brothers Show, too! Dick played an angel, who helped
out Tom. This was during the heydey of fantasy comedies on TV - such as My
Favorite Martian, Bewitched, The Addams Family etc. A lot of these were inventive.
All of this is not intended as childhood nostalgia. One suspects that a lot
episodes of these programs were genuinely "good". Were they revived on DVD, or
shown on cable TV, one suspects that today's viewers would find some very
pleasant comedy. We might also start appreciating the artists behind these shows -
the directors and writers.
Today, mainly long running, hit TV series are revived - everything else is
forgotten. But actually much of the TV I've liked best was on short lived
series, such as Hank or Hey Landlord in the 60's, or summer replacement series in
the 1980's.
Mike Grost
PS Had completely forgotten about:
The Hathaways, starring Jack Weston, Peggy Cass and The Marquis Chimps
till Damien mentioned it. This was a 1961-1962 show. I loved it at age 8.
14687
From: Robert Keser
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:26am
Subject: Re: TV: Lupino, Webb, Ozzie, SF
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
>
> I grew up watching a lot of TV. Only very rarely did I watch movies,
> either on TV or in the theater. I'm curious whether most cinema
> lovers started their love of movies in childhood or later in life.
My experience was the opposite: my early childhood was all pre-TV. In
fact, practically my first memory is watching Doris Day in ROMANCE ON
THE HIGH SEAS at a neighborhood theater so tiny it was called
"the Cigar Box". My analysis of the movie at the time: pretty
lady, pretty colors.
A year or two later, when my mother took me to see SAMSON AND
DELILAH, I was already a grizzled six year-old cinephile. During the
scene when soldiers blind Samson, my mother protectively tried to
shield my eyes, and I remember indignantly pushing away her hand,
complaining "It's only a movie!"
When television arrived in our house, all the shows seemed very drab
and grungy looking, all the more so when compared to the Technicolor
splendors of the silver screen. TV only really interested me as a way
to see movies, but in the early 1950s Hollywood still regarded it as
the enemy, so not one of the major studios would allow its films to
be broadcast. The result was that the only films shown were from
outside the system, mainly British productions (I distinctly remember
THE CLOUDED YELLOW, plus numerous Anna Neagle vehicles) and American
product from the minor studios like PRC and Monogram (probably some
good Ulmer pictures).
The first foreign film that came my way was the rather lurid BITTER
RICE. My age was still countable in single digits, so it must have
been some kind of mistake that I wandered into the spectacle of
Silvana Mangano wading thigh-deep through the rice paddies. (My non-
auteurist parents refused to let me see STROMBOLI).
There was no film culture to speak of (even revivals were quite few
and far between: the first I remember was NOTORIOUS, probably around
1952) and very few books available about film, even in a major city
like Chicago. Still, publicity was never neglected in the era of the
great movie magazines like Photoplay, which functioned like
today's media outlets (my father's business gave me unlimited
access to them, which of course helped to fuel the flames of my
moviegoing).
First movie star seen in the flesh: the glamorously upholstered Jane
Russell, on a tour to push THE PALEFACE (or possibly SON OF
PALEFACE).
Although I watched "Dragnet" and "Davy Crockett" and
variety shows, TV meant very little to me (and still does). The
only memorable shows to my mind came in the period of the great
dramas, my favorite being "Play of the Week", especially
Sidney
Lumet's striking version of THE DYBBUK (second only to DOG DAY
AFTERNOON, in my opinion) and Patricia Neal in Strindberg's THE
STRONGER. However, I realize that I've missed some very good series
work by directors I admire.
The ratio of good films to bad has probably not changed much.
What's different now (and a great, great improvement) is the
availability of films and the growth of a film culture that actually
values restorations and offers ways to take film seriously as art,
rather than just disposable amusement.
--Robert Keser
14688
From:
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:28am
Subject: Re: Ali Baba (was TV: Lupino, Webb, Ozzie, SF)
Responding to JPC's post about 1940's French films:
The only Fernadel movie seen here was "Ali Baba", directed by the great
Jacques Becker. This is not as good as Becker's "Le Trou", but it is still lots of
fun. It is full of well constructed panning shots, that can be watched again
and again for their good craftsmanship and visual style.
Cannot imagine what it was like to see "Les Visiteurs du soir" as part of
one's normal movie going! I love Carne, and have enjoyed all 4 of his films seen
so far on video or DVD. Very much want to see the rest. Just saw "Drole de
drame" on DVD.
There has been a lot of criticism of video and DVD on this list recently. But
without these technologies, I would never have seen Becker or Carne or many
other great French filmmakers. I feel very grateful!
Mike Grost
14689
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:45pm
Subject: Re: Angel, Angel, Down We Go (1969)
--- LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:
. What a bizarre career. She wins an Oscar very
> early on for the freakin
> Song of Bernadette. marries Robert Walker and David
> O. Selznick, is nominated
> for many Oscars and stars in some of the most
> screaming films of all-time: Duel
> in the Sun, the jaw-dropping Ruby Gentry, Beat The
> Devil, this one. And then
> she ends it all with a dive off The Towering
> Inferno. Huh? Did she ever write
> an autobiography?
>
Not yet. But I doubt she will. She toyed with the idea
of an as-told-to a number of years back, but then
thought bette of it. She appears "a clef" in Gavin
Lambert's "The Goodbue People."
> In any event, I adored Angel, Angel, Down We Go.
> Would make a great double
> feature with The Color of Pomegranates.
>
Nice idea. It's also known as "Cult of the Damned,"
BTW.
Thom as an interesting character. While "Angel" is the
only film he directed he wrote others including "Wild
in the Streets."
He was once married to Millie Perkins.
_______________________________
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14690
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:09pm
Subject: Re: Women's pictures (Ida Lupino)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Samuel Bréan wrote:
.
>
>
> There's a monograph on Ida Lupino: "Queen of the B's," edited by
Annette
> Kuhn (1995). It's available at the BPI in Paris ;-)
>
> There are a few articles in an issue of "Positif" from the 1980's,
I don't
> have the exact reference.
>
> Samuel.
>
The POSITIF issue is #301, March 1986. One article on Lupino as
filmmaker, one on her early Warners, plus the translation of an
article (too short, alas) she wrote for ACTION in 1967 about her
experience both in film and TV.
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail : bientôt 250 Mo de stockage !
> http://www.imagine-msn.com/hotmail/fr-fr/
14691
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:19pm
Subject: Re: TV: Lupino, Webb, Ozzie, SF
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
>
> > I saw The Thief of Bagdad on the huge screen of the
> > Paris Gaumont
> > Palace, the largest movie theatre in Paris. The
> > Gaumont Palace used
> > to open up the screen even wider (although of course
> > retaining the
> > proper aspect ratio) for some key scenes, and for
> > Thief of B. it was
> > the genie coming out of the bottle. Even sitting in
> > the balcony you
> > were immersed in the picture. WOW!
> >
> >
> You cannot imagine how important "The Thief of Bagdad"
> was to me as a child.
>
> Sabu c'est moi!
>
> Makes sense. he was much sexier than John Justin and June Duprez --
put together.>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
14692
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:39pm
Subject: Re: Ali Baba (was TV: Lupino, Webb, Ozzie, SF)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> Responding to JPC's post about 1940's French films:
> The only Fernadel movie seen here was "Ali Baba", directed by the
great
> Jacques Becker. This is not as good as Becker's "Le Trou", but it
is still lots of
> fun. It is full of well constructed panning shots, that can be
watched again
> and again for their good craftsmanship and visual style.
I was talking about Fernandel movies seen between roughly 1940 and
1945. ALI BABA (which I have never seen!) was 1954, and by then I was
19 or 20. I think the very first movie I ever saw was SIMPLET (1941)
which Fernandel starred in and also allegedly directed (covering for
a jewish director, I think).
> Cannot imagine what it was like to see "Les Visiteurs du soir" as
part of
> one's normal movie going!
My mother took me. I still remember the theater and where we were
sitting.
14693
From: Adam Hart
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:57pm
Subject: Re: Cronenberg (Was: So no one else believes in "good bad acting"?)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Noel Vera"
wrote:
> > Cronenberg'sreal interest is creating a orror film in
> > which the ultimate horro is the complete dissolution
> > of one personality into another.
>
it's not just a matter of horror for him. he's especially interested
in the intersection between genders, and how one can blur into
another, and i'd say that isn't really a point of horror for him
(although it sometimes can be). even though cronenberg's films often
are either explicitly horror films, or have something of a horror
atmosphere (i.e. dead ringers, crash, naked lunch or spider), i have
trouble calling his films 'horror' films. he's more interested in
the monstrous, the grotesque, in that it lets him really dig into
his preoccupations. it's rare that he's actually trying to scare
somebody - although there can be some disagreement about what a
horror film is, as far as i'm concerned the infliction of horror on
an audience is a necessary ingredient in the horror film. i think
that what noel was saying about the dissolution of one personality
into another can be tied directly into cronenberg's use of the human
body, which is the one concrete signifier of a human identity, and
which mutates and decays in very, ummm, surprising ways in his work.
i sometimes wonder whether our reactions are desired or expected by
cronenberg, or whether they're just an unanticipated side effect.
for a while now, cronenberg has been just as concerned with the
problems of perception and willful corruption of mental processes,
and i think this serves as a perfect compliment to his explorations
of personal and sexual identity - in so much as he often seems to
consider identity to be a willful construction.
14694
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:25pm
Subject: Re: David Ehrenstein Presents
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Modiano"
wrote:
>
> Outasight brother! Should we do acid or ecstasy? What will Bill
be
> on?
>
> Richard
A steamin' cup o' Yerba Mate. Those days are behind me, Richard.
Although the Brian Wilson Smile concert at Disney Auditorium on
election night might tempt me to recedive.
14695
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:36pm
Subject: Waxing Nostalgic (Was: TV: Lupino, Webb, Ozzie, SF)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
>
>
> I grew up watching a lot of TV. Only very rarely did I watch movies,
> either on TV or in the theater. I'm curious whether most cinema
> lovers started their love of movies in childhood or later in life.
>
> Paul
TV entered the picture a little late for me to start with it. My
first ventures in filum were going to the Liberty Theatre -- one of 2
my small hometown had, the one that was open only on Saturday and
just for kids -- to see Roy Rogers etc. westerns and classic serials
with my friend Lon Deaton, a cowboy who used to take care of the
buffalo on the nickel (sic?) when he was with Buffalo Bill's Wild
West Show (sic?). I have a very early memory of seeing tv when
visiting neighbors of the Drapers, the people we were staying with
when I went with my mother to visit her old hometown in Missouri. Dr.
Jekyll (probably March) was turning into Hyde in one take. I assumed
that because he was on tv and not in a movie theatre they could put
different filters in front of his face to make him change. When we
did get tv, I watched a lot solo and with my family: the Golden Age.
Movies on tv only became important late in the day when Shock Theatre
started on tv, but by then I was already heavily into sci-fi and
horror at the cinemah.
Doesn't ANYONE remember that Jack Arnold virtually reinvented
Gilligan's Island when he took over the failing show as producer in
the first season, and also directed some of the classic episodes?
Sheesh!
14696
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:42pm
Subject: Re: Cronenberg (Was: So no one else believes in "good bad acting"?)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Noel Vera"
wrote:
> > Cronenberg'sreal interest is creating a orror film in
> > which the ultimate horro is the complete dissolution
> > of one personality into another.
>
> A tendency that twins are constantly aware of and do their best to
> resist, hence this playing up of differences.
They also pretend to be each other. There is at least one scene when
I'm not sure which Mantle I'm watching. Bitchun flick.
14697
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:45pm
Subject: Re: Jack Webb, was: Movie character tyrants as directions
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Webb's style is exceeddinglyterse and minimalist. He
> > doesn't go for visual effects atall. Everything is
> > propelled by the Q & A of the investigating
> > detectives.
>
>
> It's because of Webb's reductive style that Dragnet was so
memorable
> when it was dealing with drugs. Those hepped-up kids high on pot
and
> other junk just burst through the constraints of the minimalist
> Dragnet universe, emphasizing the dangerous and destructive nature
of
> these illegal substances.
Dragnet was an LA cop show -- it was done from the pov of the cops.
Naked City was a NY cop show -- it was done from the point of view of
the criminals! William Graham shone on that one, of course.
14698
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:54pm
Subject: Re: Angel, Angel, Down We Go (1969)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:
> I cannot believe I've lived this long without seeing this amazing,
amazing
> film.
Robert Thom was a poet/novelist/screenwriter who also wrote Bloody
Mama (and the amazing surrealist novelization thereof) and Wild in
the Streets, another iconic film. He married Millie Perkins and had
two daughters with her, Hedy and Lily -- Lily learned assistant
editing on it's All True and later was Altman's assistant on
Gingerbread Man. She's now married and living in Florida. Robert Thom
wrote a hard-to-find booklength poem before his suicide called The
Sins of Cinema, somewhat in the vein of Eliot -- I highly recommend
it. He was plagued by drug use and drowned himself in the ocean a la
Norman Main. Millie quit movies and moved to Oregon to raise the
girls away from said sins while supporting herself by teaching
acting. "Thom," as she still calls him, seems to have been a real
handful, but he left an indelible mark on Sixties Sin-ema, and on my
friend Millie.
14699
From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:56pm
Subject: love of movies in childhood or later in life
I was born the 5th of 6 children in the coal region in PA in 1951; our
family had one of the first TV's on the block and CABLE feed from NYC
and Phila. was necessary because of the Appalachian Mountains. We
watched the usual family menu yet I remember watching a lot of WW2
movies, to the extent of wondering what they would have made movies
about if there had been no WW2. We didn't watch much television or
movies over all; when I went to college I started some regular movie
watching, but then mostly to learn about different times, places,
peoples. I occasionally sensed something of 'cinema.' In the past 5
years, I have seriously been studying film (on my own) with the aim
toward screenwriting. I spend most of my time with cinema and am glad
to have it in my life, separate from my writing interest.
> From: "Paul Gallagher"
>
> I grew up watching a lot of TV. Only very rarely did I watch movies,
> either on TV or in the theater. I'm curious whether most cinema
> lovers started their love of movies in childhood or later in life.
14700
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:58pm
Subject: Re: Women's pictures (Ida Lupino)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Samuel Bréan wrote:
> >From: "Maxime Renaudin"
>
> There's a monograph on Ida Lupino: "Queen of the B's," edited by
Annette
> Kuhn (1995). It's available at the BPI in Paris ;-)
>
> There are a few articles in an issue of "Positif" from the 1980's,
I don't
> have the exact reference.
>
Ronnie Scheib also wrote a career piece. The one time I heard IL
speak at the Nuart, her abrasive gay-bashing turned me off. I guess
I'm still discovering the films -- obviously she has many devotees
here, and I should follow up.
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