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Posts From the Internet Film Discussion Group, a_film_by
This group is dedicated to discussing film as art
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15001
From: George Robinson
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 8:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: Never Darken My Towels Again (was Politics (OT) )
First let me say as a lifelong Marxist (Tendance Groucho), that I appreciate
the change in the subject line.
Now, my own personal blacklist -- since that seems to be the subject of this
thread (when it's not personal sniping and bitching):
John Schlesinger -- yeah, I know, he's dead and I won't have to deal with
him again, but his films are so poisonously anti-human and he's only guy I
know who can make both Paris and New York look like barroom toilets;
William Friedkin -- hey, Billy, if you're not interested enough to hold a
shot more than ten seconds, I can't sustain enough interest to sit through
one of your films again. (Notable exceptions, To Live and Die in L.A. and
The French Connection, both of which hold up better than I would have
expected.)
Oliver Stone -- it's like having someone bang your head between garbage can
lids for two hours. (Exception: first half of Salvador, most of Platoon)
Alan Parker -- a less-talented John Schlesinger
Tony Scott -- He's a combination of everything I hate about all the other
directors on this list.
Almost anyone who has worked for Jerry Bruckheimer -- Dominic Sena, Michael
Bay, Simon West, Antoine Fuqua, David McNally -- Bruckheimer is the sort of
producer who encourages the kind of filmmaking that all the other assholes
on this list are guilty of, plus he's a smug bastard whose films almost
always include gratuitous gay-bashing and the ugliest treatment of women
legally permitted on screen.
Stephen Sommers -- The Mummy movies are about as brain-dead as it gets.
Stephen Norrington -- watched fifteen minutes of League of Extraordinarily
Stupid Gentlemen and couldn't believe someone would spend so much money to
so little purpose.
As you can see, these choices are based more on sensibility than ideology.
Stone is sort of a man of the left (albeit one who thinks Dick Nixon got a
raw deal), and I think Parker would claim the same. Schlesinger made TV
commercials for the Tories, and Bruckheimer is one of Hollywood's biggest
shills for Bush. But all of them make movies in which characters exist
solely as objects to be blown up, tortured and dismembered for cheap
thrills.
While I share Damien's political opinions for the most part, as a general
rule I don't let them influence my aesthetics too much. I don't claim purity
on this and I do think there are some lines that shouldn't be crossed. For
example, I hate Riefenstahl both for her lies about her involvement with
the Nazis and for her films which I find excruciatingly dull, but even if I
though she were a better filmmaker, her politics and mendacity trump her
aesthetics for me.
Frankly, these days, the list of actors I can't tolerate is probably longer
than the list of directors; but they're both long lists that are only
getting longer.
George (The world consists of two groups of people: the people I hate and
the people I haven't met yet) Robinson
P.S.
Harmon Jones?
whew.
g
What we need is more people who specialize in the impossible.
-- Theodore Roethke
15002
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 8:13pm
Subject: Usenet (was Re: Boris & Uncle Joe)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
> Nonetheless,
> I recommend that people not familiar with Usenet check out its
> archives on http://groups.google.com. Type in, for example,
> "rec.arts.movies.past-films" or "alt.movies.silent" and a topic, then
> click on Google Search.
I neglected to mention their debonair cousin,
rec.arts.movies.international,
and a remnant of the old BITNET, bit.listserv.cinema-l.
rec.arts.movies.current-films, alt.asian-movies, and alt.cult-movies
are also of interest. I don't suppose they're a representative
sample of movie fans, but they do give some idea of what people are
thinking. They're excellent sources of trivia. Some people in the
political threads were asking about conservative film buffs; there
are many on these news groups: in particular, rec.arts.past-film's
most prolific poster is not shy about his political opinions.
Paul
15003
From: George Robinson
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 8:24pm
Subject: Re: Harvey Weinstein on Asian cinema
Funny that the evil fat boy didn't mention as part of his "misstep" on
Shaolin Soccer that
he gutted the film and postponed the release date at least four times in New
York City alone.
Or that he has consistenly cut large chunks out of the films he acquires and
releases (something like 20 minutes out of Shall We Dance if I remember
correctly, and a good hunk out of Hero).
g
What we need is more people who specialize in the impossible.
-- Theodore Roethke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Wrigley"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:58 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Harvey Weinstein on Asian cinema
> So it's all Dave Kehr's fault :)
> http://tinyurl.com/63sbk
>
> -Nick>-
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
15004
From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 8:31pm
Subject: RE: Harvey Weinstein on Asian cinema
> Funny that the evil fat boy didn't mention as part of his "misstep" on
> Shaolin Soccer that
> he gutted the film and postponed the release date at least four
> times in New
> York City alone.
I'm still waiting for a good release for "Through the Olive
Trees".
Jonathan Takagi
15005
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 8:32pm
Subject: Re: Re: P-DL by PTA
--- hotlove666 wrote:
> PS - I also quite liked Hard Eight, a better
> Melville than Melville
> ever made.
>
>
Herman or Jean-Pierre?
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush
15006
From: Robert Keser
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 8:49pm
Subject: Re: Never Darken My Towels Again (was Politics (OT) )
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:
> Now, my own personal blacklist -- > John Schlesinger > William
Friedkin -- Oliver Stone -- Alan Parker -- Tony Scott -- Almost
anyone who has worked for Jerry Bruckheimer -- Dominic Sena, Michael
> Bay, Simon West, Antoine Fuqua, David McNally >
> Stephen Sommers -- Stephen Norrington --
> P.S.
> Harmon Jones?
> whew.
Wow, you're making Harmon Jones look pretty good by comparison.
If you are looking for agreeably ludicrous entertainment, you can't
go wrong with "Princess of the Nile", what with Debra Paget escaping
her palace duties every night by diving into a moat and surfacing in
the souk in order to pursue hoochie-coochie dancing for the Egyptian
public.
However, you should give Schlesinger's very amusing "Cold Comfort
Farm" another try, if only to enjoy the crass Hollywood producer
combing pig farms in the English countryside for potential stars.
--Robert Keser
15007
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 9:12pm
Subject: Re: Ashes of N.Y. Times
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"
wrote:
Re: filmmakers doing opera: A ticket to the Friedken-directed
Strauss is just too expensive, although I love Strauss operas. I
also have not had great experiences with this approach in the
past when it was done on film: Losey's Don Juan, Bergman's
Flute, Syberberg's Parsifal...all turkeys, IMO.
15008
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 9:18pm
Subject: Re: Harvey Weinstein on Asian cinema
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Takagi"
wrote:
> I'm still waiting for a good release for "Through the Olive
> Trees".
>
> Jonathan Takagi
That's a sad case, because it really should be seen on a big
screen. I explained in an earlier post that they picked it up as a
favor to Ciby after The Piano put them on the map, probably w. no
intention of releasing it. Didn't do Ciby any good -- they're gone.
Oh well, we'll always have The Wind Will Carry Us.
15009
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 9:19pm
Subject: Re: P-DL by PTA
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- hotlove666 wrote:
>
>
> > PS - I also quite liked Hard Eight, a better
> > Melville than Melville
> > ever made.
> >
> >
>
> Herman or Jean-Pierre?
>
J-P - Melville is overrated because he had wonderful actors; in
that one Anderson did too -- the guy who plays Sydney -- but it's a
better movie overall than any Melville I've seen.
On the other hand, there is a dash of Herman in Hard Eight: The
Confidence Man.
15010
From: George Robinson
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 9:22pm
Subject: Now for a little comedy relief
After all the heavy breathing about politics, bad filmmakers and evil in the
universe (which is how I think of certain filmmakers, but that's another
story),
Let me suggest a relaxing and very silly but definitely on-topic change of
pace.
Go to:
http://www.angryalien.com/
and watch the 30-second versions of Jaws, Alien, The Exorcist and several
other iconic titles,
as re-enacted by cartoon bunnies.
Very silly and a good antidote to what appears to be ailing all of us.
George (Pretty silly himself) Robinson
What we need is more people who specialize in the impossible.
-- Theodore Roethke
15011
From: Brian Darr
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 9:26pm
Subject: Re: Opera and film
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
> Re: filmmakers doing opera: A ticket to the Friedken-directed
> Strauss is just too expensive, although I love Strauss operas. I
> also have not had great experiences with this approach in the
> past when it was done on film: Losey's Don Juan, Bergman's
> Flute, Syberberg's Parsifal...all turkeys, IMO.
Has anyone here seen Peggy Woolcock's recent film of "Death of
Klinghoffer"? She takes a documentary-style realisitc approach to
filming this controversial John Adams opera. I'm no opera buff, but
I was profoundly moved by many sequences, especially those aboard the
ship.
15012
From: Nick Wrigley
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 9:35pm
Subject: Re: Re: Never Darken My Towels Again (was Politics (OT) )
> However, you should give Schlesinger's very amusing "Cold Comfort
> Farm" another try, if only to enjoy the crass Hollywood producer
> combing pig farms in the English countryside for potential stars.
Schlesinger's definitely the odd man out on George's list. "Poisonously
anti-human"? - Wah? -- He's a fantabulous director: BILLY LIAR is
knockout, DARLING, MIDNIGHT COWBOY, SUNDAY BLOODY SUNDAY, all extremely
strong films on many levels. He might have made Tory commercials and
tripe with Madonna in the late 90s, but no-one can take away those
earlier films.
-Nick>-
15013
From: George Robinson
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 9:41pm
Subject: Re: Re: Never Darken My Towels Again (was Politics (OT) )
I think Billy Liar is a perfectly competent example of the kitchen-sink Brit
dramas of the late '50s-early '60s, althougth I'm unsympathetic to the
subgenre. Darling, I will concede, is quite lovely. Oddly enough I've never
seen Sunday Bloody Sunday, but I absolutely loathe Midnight Cowboy, although
Hoffman is amusing.
g
What we need is more people who specialize in the impossible.
-- Theodore Roethke
>
> Schlesinger's definitely the odd man out on George's list. "Poisonously
> anti-human"? - Wah? -- He's a fantabulous director: BILLY LIAR is
> knockout, DARLING, MIDNIGHT COWBOY, SUNDAY BLOODY SUNDAY, all extremely
> strong films on many levels. He might have made Tory commercials and
> tripe with Madonna in the late 90s, but no-one can take away those
> earlier films.
>
> -Nick>-
15014
From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 9:45pm
Subject: RE: Re: Harvey Weinstein on Asian cinema
> That's a sad case, because it really should be seen on a big
> screen. I explained in an earlier post that they picked it up as a
> favor to Ciby after The Piano put them on the map, probably w. no
> intention of releasing it.
Weren't they forced to acquire it as part of a package deal?
I had seen it in the theatre while in Spain, but the final
scene loses much of its force (and sometimes its sense) when
viewing on video. Some people I know who have only seen it
on video are confused with the final scene because they can't
really see the protagonists' bodies.
Jonathan Takagi
15015
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 9:48pm
Subject: Re: Harvey Weinstein on Asian cinema
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Takagi"
wrote:
>
> > That's a sad case, because it really should be seen on a big
> > screen. I explained in an earlier post that they picked it up as
a
> > favor to Ciby after The Piano put them on the map, probably
w. no
> > intention of releasing it.
>
> Weren't they forced to acquire it as part of a package deal?
That sounds right.
> I had seen it in the theatre while in Spain, but the final
> scene loses much of its force (and sometimes its sense)
when
> viewing on video. Some people I know who have only seen it
> on video are confused with the final scene because they can't
> really see the protagonists' bodies.
Yeah -- they're dots. But it's hard to tell what's happening even on
a big screen.
15016
From: Noel Vera
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 10:01pm
Subject: "Ebolusyon," the 9-Hour Filipino Film Goes To Toronto
The New Yorkers had their chance; now it's Toronto's turn:
http://www.e.bell.ca/filmfest/2004/filmsschedules/description.asp?
pageID=filmlist&id=90
Haven't seen this but Lav Diaz's previous 5-hour "Batang West Side"
(West Side Avenue) was a pretty good film, one of the best from the
Philippines in recent years. His "Hesus Rebolusyonaryo" was an I
think excellent dystopian satire, an almost unheard-of genre in
Philippine cinema. He's certainly one of the most imaginative
Filipino filmmakers around.
15017
From: Noel Vera
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 10:10pm
Subject: "Ebolusyon," the 9-Hour Filipino Film, Goes To Toronto
(The link to my previous post was cut off; let's see what happens if
I put it at the bottom)
The New Yorkers had their chance; now it's Toronto's turn.
Haven't seen this but Lav Diaz's previous 5-hour "Batang West Side"
(West Side Avenue) was a pretty good film, one of the best from the
Philippines in recent years.
That one ended up on a few 'ten best never-seen films of the year
lists' in 2002.
His "Hesus Rebolusyonaryo," set 11 years into the future, was an I
think excellent dystopian SF satire, an almost unheard-of genre in
Philippine cinema.
He's certainly one of the most imaginative Filipino filmmakers
around.
Here's the link:
http://www.e.bell.ca/filmfest/2004/filmsschedules/description.asp?
pageID=filmlist&id=90
15018
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 10:14pm
Subject: Syberberg (was Re: Ashes of N.Y. Times)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666" wrote:
>
> Re: filmmakers doing opera: A ticket to the Friedken-directed
> Strauss is just too expensive, although I love Strauss operas. I
> also have not had great experiences with this approach in the
> past when it was done on film: Losey's Don Juan, Bergman's
> Flute, Syberberg's Parsifal...all turkeys, IMO.
I rather liked "Parsifal." That aside, since people have been
listing conservative directors, I'm curious about Syberberg's
politics, but since my German's not so good, I had a hard time
reading his books for myself. I've read that his more recent
writings have embraced Nazism: "if you take the nazi out of the
German, you wind up with bottomless vulgarity and nothing else"
is how Eliot Handelman paraphrases Syberberg. I'll also note this
quote from Silke-Maria Weineck: "The best film made about Nazis is
not the execrable "Schindler's List" but Syberberg's "Hitler -
ein Film aus Deutschland" -- because Syberberg is a Nazi, he has
given superb aesthetic translation of Nazi ideology. (I
know Sontag thought otherwise, but after Syberberg's last book
Sontag has egg on her face). The scary thing is, it's beautiful --
and that is the hardest thing to admit, but, I think, the first
thing that needs to be understood -- the incredible emotional
appeal of barbarism's mythology."
Paul
15019
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 10:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ashes of N.Y. Times
--- hotlove666 wrote:
> Re: filmmakers doing opera: A ticket to the
> Friedken-directed
> Strauss is just too expensive, although I love
> Strauss operas. I
> also have not had great experiences with this
> approach in the
> past when it was done on film: Losey's Don Juan,
> Bergman's
> Flute, Syberberg's Parsifal...all turkeys, IMO.
>
Atad harsh. The Bergman's a mixed bag, the Losey I'd
like to take another look at (I haven't seen it since
it came out) and the Syberberg's teriffic. Edith
Clever's Kundry is one of my all-time favorite screen
performances.
>
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
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15020
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 10:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: P-DL by PTA
--- hotlove666 wrote:
> >
> J-P - Melville is overrated because he had wonderful
> actors;
BLASPHEMY!
in
> that one Anderson did too -- the guy who plays
> Sydney -- but it's a
> better movie overall than any Melville I've seen.
>
THEN YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ENOUGH.
> On the other hand, there is a dash of Herman in Hard
> Eight: The
> Confidence Man.
>
in "P.T. Barnum and George Bailey" Anderson's dreams!
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush
15021
From: Noel Vera
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 10:19pm
Subject: "Ebolusyon," one more time
Maybe this link will come out:
http://news.inq7.net/entertainment/index.php?index=1&story_id=8431
15022
From: Robert Keser
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 10:24pm
Subject: Re: Ashes of N.Y. Times
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- hotlove666 wrote:
> >Losey's Don Juan, Bergman's Flute, Syberberg's Parsifal...all
> >turkeys, IMO.
> >
> Atad harsh. The Bergman's a mixed bag, the Losey I'd
> like to take another look at (I haven't seen it since
> it came out) and the Syberberg's teriffic. Edith
> Clever's Kundry is one of my all-time favorite screen
> performances.
> >
The critical reception seemed mixed for Francesco Rosi's Carmen, but
it struck me as quite exciting, both as film and for its dynamic
musical performances.
--Robert Keser
15023
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 10:27pm
Subject: Re: Syberberg (was Re: Ashes of N.Y. Times)
--- Paul Gallagher wrote:
I've read that his
> more recent
> writings have embraced Nazism: "if you take the nazi
> out of the
> German, you wind up with bottomless vulgarity and
> nothing else"
> is how Eliot Handelman paraphrases Syberberg.
Syberberg's sympathies with "National Socialism" are
obvious. But in the past it was its vulgarity that he
objected to most severely.
I'll
> also note this
> quote from Silke-Maria Weineck: "The best film made
> about Nazis is
> not the execrable "Schindler's List" but Syberberg's
> "Hitler -
> ein Film aus Deutschland" -- because Syberberg is a
> Nazi, he has
> given superb aesthetic translation of Nazi ideology.
> (I
> know Sontag thought otherwise, but after Syberberg's
> last book
> Sontag has egg on her face).
Among other things.
The scary thing is,
> it's beautiful --
> and that is the hardest thing to admit, but, I
> think, the first
> thing that needs to be understood -- the incredible
> emotional
> appeal of barbarism's mythology."
>
True.
Life would be so much simpler if Leni Riefenstahl were
a shitty filmmaker. But she isn't.
Just a shitty human being.
Syberberg too. Fassbinder railed against him, claiming
he'd stolen all his ideas from Werner Schroeter. When
I brought Schroeter up to Syberberg, he trembled --
and then prevaricated. He saluted his "talent" but
claimed they had "different ideas."
To put it mildly!
_______________________________
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Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush
15024
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 10:31pm
Subject: Syberberg (was Re: Ashes of N.Y. Times)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
I haven't been keeping up with current events, although I did hear
H-JS had started talking a bit oddly. I can say without a shadow
of a doubt that Hitler, A Film from Germany is an all-out attack on
Hitler and the Nazi ideology. The Night, his four-hour b&w
one-woman show of Edith Cleaver (sp?) acting Wagner's letters
is certainly scary, but again, not at all anti-Semitic. He gets as
close as he can to these subjects with the aim of exorcising
Wagner's anti-Semitism (while keeping his music) and the
pervasive influence of the Nazis on German culture, film, politics
-- reclaiming the theme of Deutschland, Deutschland and giving
it back to classical music, for example. (Fred Baker's essay film
Deutschland Deutschland, made for ZDF and BBC, does the
same thing in a more modest way -- Fred's a fan of H-JS.) If he
got in too close and tipped over into madness, I'm very sorry to
hear it. He's a hugely gifted visionary artist, and the Hitler film is
an exemplary piece of militant cinema.
15025
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 10:44pm
Subject: Re: Syberberg (was Re: Ashes of N.Y. Times)
> I rather liked "Parsifal." That aside, since people have been
> listing conservative directors, I'm curious about Syberberg's
> politics, but since my German's not so good, I had a hard time
> reading his books for myself. I've read that his more recent
> writings have embraced Nazism: "if you take the nazi out of the
> German, you wind up with bottomless vulgarity and nothing else"
> is how Eliot Handelman paraphrases Syberberg.
I can't read German, but I do remember a fascinating interview with
Syberberg in the Village Voice around the time of OUR HITLER. My
impression from it was not that he was a Nazi. He talked about how the
motifs and emotional underpinnings of German culture had been
appropriated and built upon by the Nazis, and that the postwar German
generation was therefore a generation without a culture, because every
theme that German artists had previously built upon had been tainted by
Nazi associations. I had the sense that he thought young German artists
might need to reconnect with German romantic-mystical traditions before
they could become rooted again.
The argument itself is a little romantic, in that there's so much
international culture these days. And German artists seem to have
established national traditions in the last 35 years or so without
tapping in to mountain mysticism or Wagner or anything such. But
Syberberg didn't strike me at the time as a Nazi sympathizer. - Dan
15026
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 10:50pm
Subject: Syberberg (was Re: Ashes of N.Y. Times)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt
wrote:
German artists seem to have
> established national traditions in the last 35 years or so
without
> tapping in to mountain mysticism or Wagner or anything such.
In terms my meshuga mentor Harold Bloom would understand:
Hitler is definitely Hitler in Our Hitler, but he's also Straub.
15027
From: Damien Bona
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 11:04pm
Subject: Re: Never Darken My Door Again (was Politics (OT) )
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:
> Damien, what past bad experience did you have with Chereau or what
> sensibility of Chereau's is so opposed to you own?
>
> Kevin John
I found the Those Who Love Me Can Take The Train to be so
misanthropic and cynical as to border on the self-parodistic. There
wasn't a single fully-rounded character in the whole movie and,
unlike, say, Renoir, McCarey or Claude Goretta, Chereau doesn't
understand is that you can present human foibles and not have a film
populated only by one-dimensional cretins-- or perhaps he's just
incapable of doing so. His use of moody English-language songs on
the soundtrack for mood enghancement shows how bereft of originality
he is. To me the movie was utterly lacking in compassion. And I found
it interminible -- watching it was like a slow death.
15028
From: Damien Bona
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 11:07pm
Subject: Re: Never Darken My Door Again (was Politics (OT) )
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:
> You might as well say you're boycotting Lew Landers or S. Sylvan
Simon.
I actually like Simon's Salute To The Marines, and Lew Landers did
direct the wonderful "Topper" television series, which I guess must
mean that he was the first man to direct something that Stephen
Sondheim had written.
15029
From: Damien Bona
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 11:12pm
Subject: Re: Ashes of N.Y. Times
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"
wrote:
>
> There's also an article on Friedkin, Garry Marshall and others
directing opera.
Which opera did Garry Marshall direct? I can't even conceive of him
handling anything more than Girl Of The Golden West or Naughty
Marietta. Didn't Rouben Mamoulian direct operas, as well?
15030
From: Andy Rector
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 11:35pm
Subject: NY Straub retrospective rumor
Does anyone in the room know of a Straub retrospective at Anthology
Film Archives in NY in Sept. or Oct.?? I heard a rumor.
Yours,
andy
15031
From: Noel Vera
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 11:50pm
Subject: Re: P-DL by PTA
> J-P - Melville is overrated because he had wonderful actors; in
> that one Anderson did too -- the guy who plays Sydney -- but it's
a
> better movie overall than any Melville I've seen.
It could be my personal tastes, but I far prefer Melville's
understated style to PTA's tendency to shove the camera in the face,
with loud music blaring in the background. And for all of Melville's
flaws, he does succeed in bringing out whole, complete characters;
the overall impression something like "Magnolia" or "Boogie Nights"
gave me was of a whole cast of ostensibly interesting characters
being deftly introduced, who immediately start freaking out. No
middle act, no character development.
PTA's not untalented; that's an exciting visual style he has, but
it's more than a little reminiscent of Scorsese's, down to the pop
music score (differene is Scorsese, especially when he worked with
Schrader, managed to create whole, complex characters). And he does
bring out the best in some of his actors, performancewise (I'm
thinking of Tom Cruise, of whom I'm no big fan, in Magnolia), tho he
does also bring out some of the worse (thinking of Julianne Moore in
the same movie).
Punch Drunk seems to be a repudiation of everything he's been: an
austere visual style, only two main characters, a pleasingly
straightforward story line. I think it's his best work yet,altho
again I think he fails to make his characters convincing--I mean,
Why would Emily Watson even come near such a demonstrably creepy
man? Granted she could be as odd, we never learn much about her, at
least enough to make her acceptance convincing.
And a near-autistic man who runs his own business (and with no sign
of running it into the ground)! I've dealt with plenty of
entrepreneurs in my work as bank officer, and they're almost all
strong personalities, able to put forth their force of will or at
the very least have social interaction skills (the exceptions
usually inherited their businesses and are forced to run it by their
parents. Rarely last long, especially when the parents go).
15032
From: Damien Bona
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 11:51pm
Subject: Re: Never Darken My Towels Again (was Politics (OT) )
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:
>
> Tony Scott -- He's a combination of everything I hate about all the
other
> directors on this list.
>
> Almost anyone who has worked for Jerry Bruckheimer -- Dominic Sena,
>Michael > Bay, Simon West, Antoine Fuqua, David McNally --
>Bruckheimer is the sort of > producer who encourages the kind of
>filmmaking that all the other assholes
> on this list are guilty of, plus he's a smug bastard whose films
>almost
> always include gratuitous gay-bashing and the ugliest treatment of
women
> legally permitted on screen.
Are the Bruckheimer directors interchangeable, or do they (or even
some of them) have any distinctive characteristics? Can one, for
instance, tell the difference between a Dominic Sena picture and a
film by Simon West?
15033
From:
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 8:03pm
Subject: Re: Ashes of N.Y. Times
Some opera films that are good:
Katerina Izmailova (Mikhail Shapiro)
L'Incoronazione di Poppea (Peter Hall)
Julius Caesar (John Michael Phillips)
The Mikado (Norman Campbell, Brian MacDonald)
Agrippina (Thomas Olofsson)
Have seen clips of a Zeffirelli version of Tosca with Callas. It was super
duper!
MIke Grost
15034
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 0:06am
Subject: Re: Never Darken My Door Again (was Politics (OT) )
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
>
> I actually like Simon's Salute To The Marines, and Lew
Landers did
> direct the wonderful "Topper" television series, which I guess
must
> mean that he was the first man to direct something that
Stephen
> Sondheim had written.
He and Ulmer bought the novel Detour together and were both
involved in developing it at PRC. Landers' name is on the
shooting script as director, as a matter of fact.
His last film, Terrified, for Crown, is a great last work: a hooded
killer in a ghost town does terrible things to travellers, and plays
the organ in between. Ahead of its time in ghastliness; formally,
almost a silent.
You never know...
15035
From:
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 8:06pm
Subject: Re: Never Darken My Towels Again (was Politics (OT) )
Lew Landers fans are weeping tonight!
Some better films by Landers:
The Man Who Found Himself
They Wanted to Marry
Double Danger
Law of the Underworld
The Power of the Whistler
Under the Tonto Rim
Just saw Double Danger again last night. It is full of light hearted charm.
Mike Grost
15036
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 0:07am
Subject: Re: NY Straub retrospective rumor
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rector"
wrote:
> Does anyone in the room know of a Straub retrospective at
Anthology
> Film Archives in NY in Sept. or Oct.?? I heard a rumor.
>
> Yours,
> andy
Hey Andy, where were you? We had a whole thread of Charles
Burnett's Turner film. Thanks for tipping me to it!
15037
From: George Robinson
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 0:07am
Subject: Re: Re: Never Darken My Towels Again (was Politics (OT) )
I can't think of anything that distinguishes them from one another.
And I certainly don't intend to make a detailed study of it.
It would be like taking a survey of filthy restaurant kitchens to see
which one gave you the most severe ptomaine poisoning.
g
What we need is more people who specialize in the impossible.
-- Theodore Roethke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Bona"
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 7:51 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Never Darken My Towels Again (was Politics (OT) )
> Are the Bruckheimer directors interchangeable, or do they (or even
> some of them) have any distinctive characteristics? Can one, for
> instance, tell the difference between a Dominic Sena picture and a
> film by Simon West?
>
15038
From: George Robinson
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 0:08am
Subject: Re: Re: Never Darken My Door Again (was Politics (OT) )
This still doesn't answer the question, why Harmon C. Jones?
The director of Gorilla at Large and The Silver Whip, for gosh sakes.
g
What we need is more people who specialize in the impossible.
-- Theodore Roethke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Bona"
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 7:07 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Never Darken My Door Again (was Politics (OT) )
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
> wrote:
>
> > You might as well say you're boycotting Lew Landers or S. Sylvan
> Simon.
>
>
> I actually like Simon's Salute To The Marines, and Lew Landers did
> direct the wonderful "Topper" television series, which I guess must
> mean that he was the first man to direct something that Stephen
> Sondheim had written.
15039
From: George Robinson
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 0:09am
Subject: Re: Re: Never Darken My Door Again (was Politics (OT) )
Is the organ-playing part of the ghastliness?
g
What we need is more people who specialize in the impossible.
-- Theodore Roethke
----- Original Message -----
From: "hotlove666"
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 8:06 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Never Darken My Door Again (was Politics (OT) )
>
> His last film, Terrified, for Crown, is a great last work: a hooded
> killer in a ghost town does terrible things to travellers, and plays
> the organ in between. Ahead of its time in ghastliness; formally,
> almost a silent.
>
> You never know...
15040
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 0:11am
Subject: Re: Never Darken My Towels Again (was Politics (OT) )
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
>
> Are the Bruckheimer directors interchangeable, or do they (or
even
> some of them) have any distinctive characteristics? Can one,
for
> instance, tell the difference between a Dominic Sena picture
and a
> film by Simon West?
Joel Silver on Tony Scott: "If a scene is covered from several
angles, Tony will choose the one that's out of focus in the rear
view mirror."
15041
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 0:12am
Subject: Re: P-DL by PTA
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Noel Vera"
wrote:
>
> > J-P - Melville is overrated because he had wonderful actors;
in
> > that one Anderson did too -- the guy who plays Sydney -- but
it's
> a
> > better movie overall than any Melville I've seen.
>
> It could be my personal tastes, but I far prefer Melville's
> understated style to PTA's tendency to shove the camera in the
face,
> with loud music blaring in the background.
Hard Eight is understated. I'm not a big fan of the middle two.
15042
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 0:13am
Subject: Re: Never Darken My Door Again (was Politics (OT) )
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:
> Is the organ-playing part of the ghastliness?
No, it's kinda nice...
15043
From: George Robinson
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 0:16am
Subject: Re: Lew Landers Appreciation Society [wasNever Darken My Towels Again]
I had a terrible feeling when I wrote "Lew Landers and S. Sylvan Simon' that
someone would take umbrage at my choice of one or both of them. I didn't
literally mean Lew Landers or S. Sylvan Simon, you know, they just struck me
as the Platonic form for undistinguished and inoffensive contract directors.
I could have just as easily said Joseph Kane (except that I like some of his
westerns) or Jesse Hibbs (but I think "Posse From Hell" is a very underrated
film).
It's hard to think of anyone from the studio period whose filmography is
utterly devoid of interest -- even if the interest stems from the acting,
writing or production design of one of the films. That was my whole point.
On the other hand, to tie this back to the thread I started with, it is
impossible to think of ANYTHING of interest in the work of Bruckheimer's
little cretins.
g
What we need is more people who specialize in the impossible.
-- Theodore Roethke
15044
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 0:24am
Subject: Re: Re: Never Darken My Door Again (was Politics (OT) )
--- Damien Bona wrote:
>
> I found the Those Who Love Me Can Take The Train to
> be so
> misanthropic and cynical as to border on the
> self-parodistic. There
> wasn't a single fully-rounded character in the whole
> movie and,
> unlike, say, Renoir, McCarey or Claude Goretta,
> Chereau doesn't
> understand is that you can present human foibles and
> not have a film
> populated only by one-dimensional cretins-- or
> perhaps he's just
> incapable of doing so. His use of moody
> English-language songs on
> the soundtrack for mood enghancement shows how
> bereft of originality
> he is. To me the movie was utterly lacking in
> compassion. And I found
> it interminible -- watching it was like a slow
> death.
>
>
>
Where to begin?
Well you're as wrong as wrong can be -- and I'm truly
surprised at you.
See "Film Quarterly" Volume 56 Number 2, Winter
2002-03 for my article.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
15045
From: Dave Kehr
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 0:24am
Subject: Re: Harvey Weinstein on Asian cinema
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Nick Wrigley
wrote:
> So it's all Dave Kehr's fault :)
I've been taking shit about this all day.
All I can remember is one conversation with Harvey in like, 1990 or
something (before he really was Harvey), about Jackie Chan. And now
I've destroyed Eastern civilization as we know (knew) it.
I'm really, really sorry. I won't let it happen again.
And hey, Bill -- you are sure right about "Story of the Eye." Our
young friend Andrew McElhinny does it again. Did you know he's
writing the blurbs for the Alpha Video pd releases?
15046
From: Craig Keller
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 0:40am
Subject: Re: Re: P-DL by PTA
>
> It could be my personal tastes, but I far prefer Melville's
> understated style to PTA's tendency to shove the camera in the face,
> with loud music blaring in the background.
I don't know of a camera being shoved in the faces of many characters
in any PTA films -- this kind of description seems more appropriate to
a film with a handheld / so-called vérité style.
As for the loud music in the background, I've heard this criticism of
PTA's films so often, and usually from film-goers who are of a
generation older than my own, although I don't see why that should
matter anyway (when a correlative visual style like that of Michael
Mann's in 'Collateral' can be accepted perfectly) -- but then it's
like, what about the decades of Hollywood films that existed on the
syrup-schmaltz of 50-piece orchestras doing their best to ham up so
many, many scenes in almost every film of the period? Many of which
I/we love nonetheless. I find PTA's scoring choices -- and I'm talking
here almost specifically of Jon Brion with 'Magnolia' and 'Punch-Drunk
Love' (though not to diss Michael Penn's pieces for 'Sydney' or 'Boogie
Nights') -- to be indication of a great ear (and, beyond PTA alone,
indication of a great collaborative pairing between PTA and JB). What
I find to be prickly to a lot of people is that it's not
run-of-the-mill James Horner / Harry Gregson-Williams "incidental
music." (And HG-W is considered quality in some circles apparently --
Hideo Kojima has chosen him to score the three 'Metal Gear Solid' video
games, and I'll admit his style is probably a lot more suited to this
form than to the cinema.) The percussive meltdown in 'Punch-Drunk
Love' is my favorite instance of Jon Brion's scores, because not only
does it provide another facet to the Sandler characterization, but also
"explores" the metal-and-concrete space of the warehouse (in the sense
of suggesting a frenetic stumbling in darkness, reaching outward to
touch and tap and regain clumsy bearings).
I'm also intrigued by the use of Scope in these sequences, and the
severe curvature of the warehouse's lines. Speaking of, the art-design
of Sandler's house is pretty perfect.
> And for all of Melville's
> flaws, he does succeed in bringing out whole, complete characters;
> the overall impression something like "Magnolia" or "Boogie Nights"
> gave me was of a whole cast of ostensibly interesting characters
> being deftly introduced, who immediately start freaking out. No
> middle act, no character development.
I don't understand this -- I'd take both Cruise's character and John
Reilly's in 'Magnolia' as wonderfully "developed" characters -- not
immediately "freaking out" but signifying right out of the gate. One
of the most perfect seconds in modern American cinema: John Reilly
finishing his morning prayer, standing up, and clapping his palms
together, ready to start his day and go-get-'em.
> (thinking of Julianne Moore in
> the same movie).
What bothered you about Moore's performance?
> Punch Drunk seems to be a repudiation of everything he's been: an
> austere visual style, only two main characters, a pleasingly
> straightforward story line. I think it's his best work yet,altho
> again I think he fails to make his characters convincing--I mean,
> Why would Emily Watson even come near such a demonstrably creepy
> man?
Well, because the whole film is an all-embracing plunge into
movie-romanticism in an effort to capture something of the heady
-essence- of love. The ever-present blue suit (with the changing ties)
seems a pretty clear indicator of this fact (never mind the sherbet
dream-shimmer of the transitions.) Whether it works for a viewer or
not is up to him or her, I suppose, although my suspicions about some
kind of outside predispositions held toward "youth filmmakers" rankle
in mind when I read the same kind of "pure sublimation" being lauded in
pictures from other quarters of time or continent.
What do we really need to know about Emily Watson? Why does the truck
drop off the harmonium? Is Philip Seymour Hoffman's character even
technically "real" (never mind realistic)? PTA's film almost wobbles
toward the avant-garde. It's like a perfected 'One from the Heart.'
craig.
15047
From: Noel Vera
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 1:18am
Subject: Re: P-DL by PTA
I see that shot often enough--the camera rushes towards an actor's
face, and you're supposed to get an accompanying buzz from the
motion. Usually when he's introducing a character. It's something
Scorsese uses as well.
> As for the loud music in the background, I've heard this criticism
of
> PTA's films so often, and usually from film-goers who are of a
> generation older than my own, although I don't see why that should
> matter anyway
But why shouldn't it not matter?
>(when a correlative visual style like that of Michael
> Mann's in 'Collateral' can be accepted perfectly)
I like Mann just fine, but I'm not a big, big fan.
> -- but then it's
> like, what about the decades of Hollywood films that existed on
the
> syrup-schmaltz of 50-piece orchestras doing their best to ham up
so
> many, many scenes in almost every film of the period?
Agreed on your standard-issue symphonic score, but not Melville,
surely (that's where we were coming from, originally). And I do
think Scorsese's song choices are superior.
> I don't understand this -- I'd take both Cruise's character and
John
> Reilly's in 'Magnolia' as wonderfully "developed" characters --
Cruise's character is a rare exception, as I've mentioned before
(it's the only Cruise performance I really like)--we do get to know
more of him as the interview proceeds. But his relationship with his
father, and why he feels that way, exactly, we don't get much.
Robards is almost used like a prop dummy.
> > (thinking of Julianne Moore in
> > the same movie).
>
> What bothered you about Moore's performance?
That bit in the drug store--I didn't believe it for a second. It
looked like a poor excuse for the 'freaking out' I mentioned. Plus I
can't believe drugstore employees acting that way towards a
customer. It's like PTA wanted a specific effect and to hell with
versimilitude.
> > Why would Emily Watson even come near such a demonstrably creepy
> > man?
>
> Well, because the whole film is an all-embracing plunge into
> movie-romanticism in an effort to capture something of the heady
> -essence- of love. Whether it works for a viewer or
> not is up to him or her, I suppose, although my suspicions about
some
> kind of outside predispositions held toward "youth filmmakers"
rankle
> in mind when I read the same kind of "pure sublimation" being
lauded in
> pictures from other quarters of time or continent.
I like Gus Van Sant myself--doesn't he qualify as a 'youth
filmmaker?'
> What do we really need to know about Emily Watson?
Why would she be as odd as Sandler, for one? Why doesn't that first
date have her running for cover?
>It's like a perfected 'One from the Heart.'
David E. might have something to say about that one, I haven't seen
the film in years...
15048
From:
Date: Thu Sep 2, 2004 9:40pm
Subject: Re: Lew Landers Appreciation Society [wasNever Darken My Towels Again]
Dear George Robinson,
By the way, I was not taking umbrage :) . Just being a card carrying Lew
Landers cultist!
Always enjoy reading your posts.
It IS a fascinating phenomenon about how complex and interesting pre-1970
Hollywood movies turn out to be. They often seem chock full of inventiveness,
even the ones that are not directed with the brilliance of a Sternberg or Welles.
There was perhaps something about the culture of old Hollywood that
encouraged people to do creative work.
Mike Grost
15049
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 2:08am
Subject: Re: NY Straub retrospective rumor
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rector"
wrote:
> Does anyone in the room know of a Straub retrospective at Anthology
> Film Archives in NY in Sept. or Oct.?? I heard a rumor.
>
> Yours,
> andy
Yes, there's going to a retrospective in October. "Moses and
Aaron," "Fortini/Cani, and the films from 1990 onward are missing,
however.
Machorka-Muff (1982)
Not Reconciled (1964-65)
The Bridegroom, the Comedienne, and the Pimp (1968)
Friday, Oct. 15 at 7:00pm
Monday, Oct. 18 at 9:00pm
Chronicle of Anna Magdalena Bach (1967)
Friday, Oct. 15 at 9:00
Tuesday, Oct. 19 at 7:00
Othon (1969)
En Rachachant (1982)
Saturday, Oct. 16 at 6:00
Wednesday. Oct. 20 at 9:00
History Lessons (1972)
Introduction to Arnold Schoenberg's Accompaniment to a
Cinematographic Scene (1972)
Saturday, Oct. 16 at 8:00
Tuesday, Oct. 19 at 9:00
Every Revolution is a Throw of the Dice (1977)
Too Early, Too Late (1980-81)
Sunday, Oct. 17 at 6:00
Wednesday, Oct. 20 at 7:00
Class Relations (1983)
Sunday, Oct. 17 at 8:00
Thursday, Oct. 21 at 7:00
Death of Empedocles (1987)
Monday, Oct. 18 at 7:00
Thursday, Oct. 21 at 9:00
15050
From: J. Mabe
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 5:00am
Subject: Re: Re: NY Straub retrospective rumor
--- Paul Gallagher wrote:
Machorka-Muff (1982)
> Not Reconciled (1964-65)
> The Bridegroom, the Comedienne, and the Pimp (1968)
> Friday, Oct. 15 at 7:00pm
> Monday, Oct. 18 at 9:00pm
>
> Chronicle of Anna Magdalena Bach (1967)
> Friday, Oct. 15 at 9:00
> Tuesday, Oct. 19 at 7:00
>
> Othon (1969)
> En Rachachant (1982)
> Saturday, Oct. 16 at 6:00
> Wednesday. Oct. 20 at 9:00
>
> History Lessons (1972)
> Introduction to Arnold Schoenberg's Accompaniment to
> a
> Cinematographic Scene (1972)
> Saturday, Oct. 16 at 8:00
> Tuesday, Oct. 19 at 9:00
>
> Every Revolution is a Throw of the Dice (1977)
> Too Early, Too Late (1980-81)
> Sunday, Oct. 17 at 6:00
> Wednesday, Oct. 20 at 7:00
>
> Class Relations (1983)
> Sunday, Oct. 17 at 8:00
> Thursday, Oct. 21 at 7:00
>
> Death of Empedocles (1987)
> Monday, Oct. 18 at 7:00
> Thursday, Oct. 21 at 9:00
Noooo! Every year, during my yearly pilgrimage to the
Views From the Avant-Garde, there has to be cross
programming so good it might tempt me away. I guess
I’ll just skip some classes that week and try and see
it all.
Josh
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush
15051
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 5:11am
Subject: Re: Re: P-DL by PTA
--- Noel Vera wrote:
>
> >It's like a perfected 'One from the Heart.'
>
> David E. might have something to say about that one,
> I haven't seen
> the film in years...
>
>
Well I don't see any relation to "One From the Heart"
at all -- a truly teriffic film I seriously
underestimated at the time of its appearance. It's one
of several sets-and-effects films of that period
("1941" being another) that were sadly superceded by
the digital doodles we have today.
It's Teri Garr's finest moment -- her body having
achieved perfection.
And the songs by Tom Waits are great, particularly
"Old Boyfriends" which has beocme an especial favorite
of mine for numerous reasons.
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
15052
From: Damien Bona
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 5:16am
Subject: Re: Lew Landers Appreciation Society [wasNever Darken My Towels Again]
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:
> This still doesn't answer the question, why Harmon C. Jones?
> The director of Gorilla at Large and The Silver Whip, for gosh
sakes.
>
> g
Why Harmon Jones? Well, because he was the one director I could
think of from the "Golden Age" whose work seemed entirely unworthy of
90 minutes of one's life, asn assessment based on the three films
I've seen Gorilla At Large, Pride of the St. Louis and The Kid From
Left Field. Based on what Robert wrote about Queen of the Nile,
however, I may have to re-think that assessment.
15053
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 5:26am
Subject: Re: Harvey Weinstein on Asian cinema
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Kehr" wrote:
>
> And hey, Bill -- you are sure right about "Story of the Eye." Our
> young friend Andrew McElhinny does it again. Did you know he's
> writing the blurbs for the Alpha Video pd releases?
I didn't! I'll check it out. Glad you liked Eye -- I did the blurb
for the DVD box. And thanks eternally for highlighting Chronicle of
Corpses. If someone hadn't told me you liked it, I wouldn't have seen
it at the SF Fest, and would still be in the dark about this talented
filmmaker.
15054
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 5:27am
Subject: Syberberg (was Re: Ashes of N.Y. Times)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
>
> I can't read German, but I do remember a fascinating interview with
> Syberberg in the Village Voice around the time of OUR HITLER. My
> impression from it was not that he was a Nazi. He talked about how the
> motifs and emotional underpinnings of German culture had been
> appropriated and built upon by the Nazis, and that the postwar German
> generation was therefore a generation without a culture, because every
> theme that German artists had previously built upon had been tainted by
> Nazi associations. I had the sense that he thought young German
artists
> might need to reconnect with German romantic-mystical traditions before
> they could become rooted again.
>
I looked online and found an interview Syberberg did,
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1111/is_n1714_v286/ai_13510799
15055
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 5:31am
Subject: Re: Lew Landers Appreciation Society [wasNever Darken My Towels Again]
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> Dear George Robinson,
> By the way, I was not taking umbrage :) . Just being a card
carrying Lew
> Landers cultist!
I'm reminded as Cinecom 04 looms that one of the joys of last year's
screenings was Landers' Murder in Time Square. Tasty.
15056
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 5:37am
Subject: Re: P-DL by PTA
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- Noel Vera wrote:
>
> >
> > >It's like a perfected 'One from the Heart.'
> >
> > David E. might have something to say about that one,
> > I haven't seen
> > the film in years...
> >
> >
>
> Well I don't see any relation to "One From the Heart"
> at all -- a truly teriffic film I seriously
> underestimated at the time of its appearance.
One from the Heart gets better with each passing year of digital
H'wd, and the criminal vileness of Richard Jameson's stealth pan in
Film Comment before the film opened (having seen it rough at a no-
critics test screening in Oregon) keeps growing with the film's rep.
Let it never be forgotten.
15057
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 5:44am
Subject: Brown Bunny
So what's not to like? It's a painter's film -- I like every shot.
Actually, it the visual quality drops at the end, but at least that
part's honest. I remember Monte Hellman's comment on the Buffalo 66
script, which he'd have loved to direct -- he said that Gallo had the
potential to be a better actor than Jack Nicholson because, as
evidenced by that script, he had a capacity to be honest about
himself that Nicholson lacked. (For those who haven't seen it -- like
me! -- he plays a manic loser who's afraid to take his underwear off
to bathe, but is saved by love anyway.) Bunny is replete with Two-
Lane Blacktop tributes, but it isn't in any way a Hellman film.
Cheers to Cannes for even showing it.
15058
From: Craig Keller
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 5:48am
Subject: Re: Re: P-DL by PTA
>>
>> Well I don't see any relation to "One From the Heart"
>> at all -- a truly teriffic film I seriously
>> underestimated at the time of its appearance.
>
> One from the Heart gets better with each passing year of digital
> H'wd, and the criminal vileness of Richard Jameson's stealth pan in
> Film Comment before the film opened (having seen it rough at a no-
> critics test screening in Oregon) keeps growing with the film's rep.
> Let it never be forgotten.
Just to clarify, when I called 'Punch-Drunk Love' a "perfected" 'One
from the Heart,' I wasn't implicitly trying to diss Coppola's film --
I'm a huge admirer of it. I can't speak for the "perfection" of Teri
Garr's body in it, but it's a film that should someday get its due,
though this due will never come from the mainstream, thanks to a
skeleton-script. It's a flawed masterpiece and a gorgeous visual
expression. I made the comparison with 'Punch-Drunk Love' because they
both seem to me (to paraphrase Daney on the Coppola) stories observed
from a UFO.
craig.
15059
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 6:50am
Subject: Syberberg (was Re: Ashes of N.Y. Times)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
> I looked online and found an interview Syberberg did,
>
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1111/is
_n1714_v286/ai_13510799
Also, this transcript:
http://www.militantesthetix.co.uk/syber.htm
I also found this article,
http://www.jya.com/clash4.htm ,
which names Syberberg among the German New Right.
Syberberg's interview reflects some of values that one of the most
prominent New Rightists, Ernst Nolte, ascribes to Nazism: "national
self-assertion and autonomy," "counter- revolutionary and
counter-Enlightenment traditions," "the deliberate exclusion of other
people," "a longing for the restoration of community, particularity,
rootedness, and the concrete, as opposed to alienation and
abstraction."
Paul
15060
From: Adrian Martin
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 7:05am
Subject: Re: Who else despise Hal Hartley?
Just wanted to return to Kristian's very interesting post about Hal Hartley.
I don't despise him, but like a lot of people, I disconnected from his work
somewhere around the mid to late 90s. Actually, looking back on his case, I
think he was one of the victims of the age of 'auteur as commodity in the
arthouse film culture marketplace': what I mean is, festivals, critics,
producers and magazines tend to seize on certain 'discoveries' in the
independent sphere and then basically reward them for doing THE SAME THING
about five times rapidly in a row - ie, being an auteur with a signature, a
recognisable schtick, an imitable style. This is really the downside of
auteurism for me, these days. Of course, having done the same thing five
times in a row, these very same auteurs then find themselves unceremoniously
dumped as boring, off-the-boil, repetitive, etc. It happened to Hartley, to
Greenaway (when was the last time most of us saw a new Hartley or Greenaway
film? - I mean, even had the chance to?), almost happened to Wong Kar-Wai,
would have happened to Assayas if he didn't 'talk the talk' so well to
critics. The biggest problem for these kinds of artists today is to cagily
REINVENT themselves in some amazing way so that they get 're-adopted' by
this rather fickle and merciless market-place (in which many of us critics
play a less than glorious part, may I add). This is what people including
Tsai and Jia Zhangke are (maybe a little desperately) trying to do now:
break free from their own auteur signature, which can become the kiss of
death to their short-lived careers!! This is all a rather regrettable
vicious circle for film artists: Ford never had to worry about it, nor
Fellini or Bergman probably.
Adrian
15061
From: Andy Rector
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 7:44am
Subject: Re: NY Straub retrospective rumor
> Yes, there's going to a retrospective in October. "Moses and
> Aaron," "Fortini/Cani, and the films from 1990 onward are missing,
> however.
>
>
Thanks a million Paul, Mabe and Stevee, I appreciate the information.
I see that this NY retrospective will coincide with the complete
Straub/Huillet retrospective at Viennale... will this be the first
time in history that Straub/Huillet will be screened publicly in two
different places on the same day(s)?
Perhaps it will provoke discussion and convergence and S/H exposure
will heave up in the middle and spread!
Fortini/Cani nixed!?!! What a lack of progress in NY! I believe
J.Rosenbaum wrote that it was refused on political grounds at the
NYFF, for its marxist critique of zionism. Zionism rages today and
Fortini is still impossible to see.
Hey Bill, your welcome (I don't recall saying anything profound like
I would've liked to and I'm glad you saw it)! I could've been in the
bathroom but I don't recall seeing the WPA oral histories segment
when it aired on PBS....(?) anybody see that part on PBS? When I saw
it at the PanAfricanFF that was my favourite part--that and the mise-
en-scene when NAT is gutting the pig and the whites talk about how
slaves never commit suicide. These are purest Burnett. Glad to hear
CB's play was well recieved by you.
PS- Manny and Patricia were like st. Francis....
yours,
andy
15062
From: Jack Angstreich
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 7:53am
Subject: Fortini/Cani (was: Re: NY Straub retrospective rumor)
Jonathan,
Is this true?
Jack Angstreich
On Sep 3, 2004, at 3:44 AM, Andy Rector wrote:
I believe J.Rosenbaum wrote that it was refused on political grounds
at the
NYFF, for its marxist critique of zionism. yours,
andy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
15063
From: Henrik Sylow
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 11:23am
Subject: Re: Auteur as commodity
Briefly noting upon Hartley, my date of disconnection, before which I
was in awe of his work, was "Amateur", perhaps to sterile for Hartley,
but to be his last "real" film.
But far more interesting is Adrian's notion of "Auteurs as a
commodity". Its an idea that has been skating my mind back and forth
for a few years now.
One of the central aspects of auteurism is not so much a signature,
but the interaction between the auteur and the reader. Understanding
the auteur code, the reader can follow the development, the new
approach, a new idea or whathaveyou in his work.
Festivals attack this interaction, and as such, undermine auteurism.
The only way to get attention at festival these days is by being
amongst the most original or best films in the world that year. As a
critic you watch 4-6 films a day, and you better make one hell of an
impression if you want to stand out. Thus, an auteurist has a "blink
of an eye" to get his messege and signature and new approach and so
forth across; And unless he has improved himself from the last film,
it will be noted off as "dissapointing", and such critic echoes at
festivals.
So in order to play the game, a director more or less has to give up
his intellectual motifs and become a festival sell out, drop signature
in order to make an impression, or as Adrians said, re-invent himself.
And yes, we force them to do so, because we walk out of films who
bore us, because we are getting stressed and hyped up by the festival
and we dont have time to reflect until after the dead lines for
festival reports.
In many ways the Big Mac mentality has caught up with festivals and
arthouse film. Where the "commercial" commercial film is tailor made
for its target audience, to squeeze every cent out of their pockets,
the "auteurist" arthouse film is tailor made to its target audience,
to squeeze every positive critic out of their pens.
This would certainly answer why there are trends in arthouse cinema;
The current trend being Tsai/Hou/Wongish and the buzzwords being
"meditative", "reflectory" and "expanding space / time". This
certainly points towards "auteurism" (or imitating auteurism) becoming
a commodity.
The question is, has arthouse cinema become as commercial as the
Hollywood blockbuster, in terms of designing a film according to trend
and target audience?`
If so, is auteurism reserved for the few, the wellfonded and the
strong willed, who are able to (to a certain degree) dismiss audience
and critical judgement?
Henrik
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Adrian Martin wrote:
> Just wanted to return to Kristian's very interesting post about Hal
Hartley.
> I don't despise him, but like a lot of people, I disconnected from
his work
> somewhere around the mid to late 90s. Actually, looking back on his
case, I
> think he was one of the victims of the age of 'auteur as commodity
in the
> arthouse film culture marketplace': what I mean is, festivals, critics,
> producers and magazines tend to seize on certain 'discoveries' in the
> independent sphere and then basically reward them for doing THE SAME
THING
> about five times rapidly in a row - ie, being an auteur with a
signature, a
> recognisable schtick, an imitable style. This is really the downside of
> auteurism for me, these days. Of course, having done the same thing five
> times in a row, these very same auteurs then find themselves
unceremoniously
> dumped as boring, off-the-boil, repetitive, etc. It happened to
Hartley, to
> Greenaway (when was the last time most of us saw a new Hartley or
Greenaway
> film? - I mean, even had the chance to?), almost happened to Wong
Kar-Wai,
> would have happened to Assayas if he didn't 'talk the talk' so well to
> critics. The biggest problem for these kinds of artists today is to
cagily
> REINVENT themselves in some amazing way so that they get 're-adopted' by
> this rather fickle and merciless market-place (in which many of us
critics
> play a less than glorious part, may I add). This is what people
including
> Tsai and Jia Zhangke are (maybe a little desperately) trying to do now:
> break free from their own auteur signature, which can become the kiss of
> death to their short-lived careers!! This is all a rather regrettable
> vicious circle for film artists: Ford never had to worry about it, nor
> Fellini or Bergman probably.
>
> Adrian
15064
From: Adrian Martin
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 11:28am
Subject: Nico returns ... in whose body?
I saw in CAHIERS and on the Net that there is a Nico biopic in the works, to
be directed by David Mackenzie, from the book THE END. No casting announced
as yet! (Any suggestions?) Hey, maybe they can get young Louis Garrel to
play his Dad, as I believe he is also doing in Philippe's new film - a 1968
memoir of sorts.
David, here is a Nico question for you: on the back of her first album
CHELSEA GIRL (though not the CD!), the liner notes are by one Patricia
Patterson. This is THE P. Patterson, isn't it, whom our Gabe and Andy
recently visited? (Sounds like a film title: Gabe and Andy Go Visiting.)
There was some guy in the house too when they called in ...
Adrian (Nico fan)
15065
From: Zach Campbell
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 0:36pm
Subject: Re: Nico returns ... in whose body?
Adrian wrote:
> No casting announced as yet! (Any suggestions?)
No suggestions here, but after Nico, I'm most curious to see who
they'll get to play John Cale. Thanks for this information, by the
way--another film to look forward to.
--Zach
15066
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 1:32pm
Subject: Re: Nico returns ... in whose body?
--- Adrian Martin wrote:
> I saw in CAHIERS and on the Net that there is a Nico
> biopic in the works, to
> be directed by David Mackenzie, from the book THE
> END. No casting announced
> as yet! (Any suggestions?) Hey, maybe they can get
> young Louis Garrel to
> play his Dad, as I believe he is also doing in
> Philippe's new film - a 1968
> memoir of sorts.
>
Hmmm. Well Garrel's own "J'Entend Plus La Guitaire" is
already a Nico biopic of sorts.
MacKenzie is temperamentally suited to recreated the
Nico landscape, but finding anyone to play a persona
so strong is next to impossible Nico awallows
everythign up thatsurrounds her -- even Delon.
Joanna Van de Teege tried her best in the Garrel but
proved no match for the original.
And as "Nico/Icon" shows Garrel himself was no match
for her either.
> David, here is a Nico question for you: on the back
> of her first album
> CHELSEA GIRL (though not the CD!), the liner notes
> are by one Patricia
> Patterson. This is THE P. Patterson, isn't it, whom
> our Gabe and Andy
> recently visited? (Sounds like a film title: Gabe
> and Andy Go Visiting.)
> There was some guy in the house too when they called
> in ...
>
Manny's wife?!?!
I seriously doubt it.
__________________________________
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15067
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 1:34pm
Subject: Re: Re: Nico returns ... in whose body?
--- Zach Campbell wrote:
> No suggestions here, but after Nico, I'm most
> curious to see who
> they'll get to play John Cale. Thanks for this
> information, by the
> way--another film to look forward to.
>
Steve Coogan would be great.
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15068
From: Robert Keser
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 1:38pm
Subject: Re: Lew Landers Appreciation Society [wasNever Darken My Towels Again]
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
> Why Harmon Jones? Well, because he was the one director I could
> think of from the "Golden Age" whose work seemed entirely unworthy
> of 90 minutes of one's life, asn assessment based on the three
films
> I've seen Gorilla At Large, Pride of the St. Louis and The Kid
> From Left Field. Based on what Robert wrote about Queen of the >
> Nile, however, I may have to re-think that assessment.
Princess! That's Princess of the Nile, recommended for Debra Paget
(or Harmon Jones) scholars.
If you were to track down the Cinecittá production of Queen of the
Nile, you would enjoy Jeanne Crain as Nefertiti, opposite Edmund
Purdom treading in his own footsteps from The Egyptian (and Vincent
Price pops up yet again).
Don't confuse those two titles, of course, with William Castle's
determinedly cheesy Serpent of the Nile, which pits Rhonda Fleming's
sullen Cleopatra against the full charisma of William Lundigan's
Antony, while Raymond Burr knits his brow and glowers as Julius
Caesar (and who can blame him?)
--Robert Keser
15069
From: George Robinson
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 1:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: Lew Landers Appreciation Society [wasNever Darken My Towels Again]
I recall the Pride of St. Louis being the usual brainless baseball biopic
but nothing offensive.
The rest of his filmography is hilariously devoid of an interest. I mean,
Dale Robertson westerns, for godsake!
g
What we need is more people who specialize in the impossible.
-- Theodore Roethke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Bona"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 1:16 AM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Lew Landers Appreciation Society [wasNever Darken
My Towels Again]
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
> wrote:
> > This still doesn't answer the question, why Harmon C. Jones?
> > The director of Gorilla at Large and The Silver Whip, for gosh
> sakes.
> >
> > g
>
> Why Harmon Jones? Well, because he was the one director I could
> think of from the "Golden Age" whose work seemed entirely unworthy of
> 90 minutes of one's life, asn assessment based on the three films
> I've seen Gorilla At Large, Pride of the St. Louis and The Kid From
> Left Field. Based on what Robert wrote about Queen of the Nile,
> however, I may have to re-think that assessment.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
15070
From: George Robinson
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 2:13pm
Subject: In Defense of the Studio System [Was : Lew Landers Appreciation Society ][wasNever Darken My Towels Again][Was --- oh never mind]
Wow, thanks for the kind words.
Thanks to the late, lamented AMC (the junk shop that runs in the old
location is an eyesore that should be torn down) and TCM, I have spent many
years now just contemplating the way that traditional film narrative works.
If you watch enough B-movies from the '30s - early '60s it's amazing how
many different ways of telling a story there really are. More than that, the
tech credits and depth of casting excellence in studio-era films are nothing
less than dazzling (okay, some of the old PRCs and Monograms dent that one,
but hey). I really see no equivalent in contemporary American big-budget
films.
And that, I suspect, is the key: even the lowliest of the studios -- PRC is
pretty lowly, despite the magnificence of Ulmer and a couple of fascinating
films by Frank Wisbar -- had enough talent on staff that the utterly,
embarrassingly worthless film devoid of any kind of interest is the rare
exception rather than the frequent case it is today. (I'm tempted to make a
snotty remark about the tedium of MGM B's but there are obvious exceptions.
Besides I don't want to call down any further wrath from the S. Sylvan Simon
completists).
g
What we need is more people who specialize in the impossible.
-- Theodore Roethke
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 9:40 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Lew Landers Appreciation Society [wasNever Darken
My Towels Again]
> Dear George Robinson,
> By the way, I was not taking umbrage :) . Just being a card carrying Lew
> Landers cultist!
> Always enjoy reading your posts.
> It IS a fascinating phenomenon about how complex and interesting pre-1970
> Hollywood movies turn out to be. They often seem chock full of
inventiveness,
> even the ones that are not directed with the brilliance of a Sternberg or
Welles.
> There was perhaps something about the culture of old Hollywood that
> encouraged people to do creative work.
>
> Mike Grost
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
15071
From: George Robinson
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 2:20pm
Subject: Hambone Orientalism [was Lew Landers Appreciation Society]
What was it with Vincent Price and all these hilariously awful movies about
the "Middle East" (or the Near East as it used to be called and still is in
certain neocon think tanks)?
I heartily recommend -- now more than ever -- the 1949 epic "Bagdad" with
Price having the time of his life playing opposite a hopelessly overmatched
Maureen O'Hara. The ostensible male lead in this one is something called
Paul Christian (real name Paul Hubschmid). After the movie was completed,
the studio had him cut into toothpicks. (Yeah, I know, he's in the Beast
from 20,00 Fathoms. Well, wood floats.)
Oh, and the director was Charles Lamont, who gave us Ma and Pa Kettle (now
there's a man who has a lot to answer for).
g
What we need is more people who specialize in the impossible.
-- Theodore Roethke
15072
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 2:36pm
Subject: Re: Re: Lew Landers Appreciation Society [wasNever Darken My Towels Again]
--- Robert Keser wrote:
>
> Don't confuse those two titles, of course, with
> William Castle's
> determinedly cheesy Serpent of the Nile, which pits
> Rhonda Fleming's
> sullen Cleopatra against the full charisma of
> William Lundigan's
> Antony, while Raymond Burr knits his brow and
> glowers as Julius
> Caesar (and who can blame him?)
>
And I can't help but think of Marilyn Maxwell as "The
White Virgin of the Nile" in Tashlin's "Rockabye Baby."
__________________________________
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15073
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 3:06pm
Subject: Re: Hambone Orientalism [was Lew Landers Appreciation Society]
--- George Robinson wrote:
The ostensible male lead in this one
> is something called
> Paul Christian (real name Paul Hubschmid). After the
> movie was completed,
> the studio had him cut into toothpicks. (Yeah, I
> know, he's in the Beast
> from 20,00 Fathoms. Well, wood floats.)
>
And he's ALSO the star of Lang's two-part masterpiece
"Der Tiger von Eschnapur" and "Das Insiche Grabmal."
_______________________________
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Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
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15074
From: Programming
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 3:41pm
Subject: Re: Re: Harvey Weinstein on Asian cinema
On 9/2/04 7:24 PM, "Dave Kehr" wrote:
> And hey, Bill -- you are sure right about "Story of the Eye." Our
> young friend Andrew McElhinny does it again. Did you know he's
> writing the blurbs for the Alpha Video pd releases?
>
>
Chicagoans will have a chance to see this Bill K. fav here at Chicago
Filmmakers on October 30 (Halloween weekend seemed appropriate).
Patrick F.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
15075
From: George Robinson
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 4:01pm
Subject: Re: Hambone Orientalism [was Lew Landers Appreciation Society]
As Ty Power so memorably says in Mark of Zorro:
"Santa Maria, it had completely slipped my mind."
But he's still a coffee-table-in-the-making.
g
What we need is more people who specialize in the impossible.
-- Theodore Roethke
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ehrenstein"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [a_film_by] Hambone Orientalism [was Lew Landers Appreciation
Society]
>
> --- George Robinson wrote:
>
> The ostensible male lead in this one
> > is something called
> > Paul Christian (real name Paul Hubschmid). After the
> > movie was completed,
> > the studio had him cut into toothpicks. (Yeah, I
> > know, he's in the Beast
> > from 20,00 Fathoms. Well, wood floats.)
> >
>
> And he's ALSO the star of Lang's two-part masterpiece
> "Der Tiger von Eschnapur" and "Das Insiche Grabmal."
>
>
15076
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 4:15pm
Subject: Re: Auteur as commodity
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Henrik Sylow"
wrote:
is auteurism reserved for the few, the wellfonded and the
> strong willed, who are able to (to a certain degree) dismiss
audience
> and critical judgement?
>
> Henrik
Yes, as it always was.
15077
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 4:30pm
Subject: Re: Harvey Weinstein on Asian cinema
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Programming
wrote:
> Chicagoans will have a chance to see this Bill K. fav here at
Chicago
> Filmmakers on October 30 (Halloween weekend seemed appropriate).
>
>
> Patrick F.
Highly. I hope Andy does one of his installations there. He
premiered it for a week in Philly on 5 video screens arranged like
sections of a funhouse scare ride, and positioned w. respect to each
other so that "part of the fun was watching and another part was
watching other people watching."
15078
From: Robert Keser
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 5:04pm
Subject: Re: Lew Landers Appreciation Society [wasNever Darken My Towels Again]
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- Robert Keser wrote:
> >
> > Don't confuse those two titles, of course, with
> > William Castle's
> > determinedly cheesy Serpent of the Nile, which pits
> > Rhonda Fleming's
> > sullen Cleopatra against the full charisma of
> > William Lundigan's
> > Antony, while Raymond Burr knits his brow and
> > glowers as Julius
> > Caesar (and who can blame him?)
> >
>
> And I can't help but think of Marilyn Maxwell as "The
> White Virgin of the Nile" in Tashlin's "Rockabye Baby."
Don't forget that Virginia Mayo also clasped the asp in her attempt
at Cleopatra in The Story of Mankind (and here's Vincent Price
*again*!).
--Robert Keser
15079
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 6:33pm
Subject: Malcolm McDowell on Lindsay Anderson
http://film.guardian.co.uk/features/featurepages/0,4120,1295915,00.html
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15080
From: Kevin Lee
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 6:53pm
Subject: Re: Politics (OT)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Gabe Klinger"
wrote:
>
> Am I being too naive in thinking that there are more nuances to the
RNC than just
> rallying around Bush, nuances that David and Damien would rather
not acknowledge?
> My dislike of Bush has been made known here and elsewhere, but
there are smart
> Republicans out there, and many of them attend the RNC to debate
and observe, not
> to say heil and beat a drum.
>
This week, with the support of Third World Newsreel (a left-leaning
organization that promotes media by and about people of color), I
interviewed three Republican delegates - one Asian, one Hispanic and
one African American. They were all New Jersey delegates (the NJ
delegation was staying at the hotel next to my office). I have to
say that these were some of the most pleasant and reasonable people I
met all week, and it was personally more satisfying talking to them
than marching in that Bloombergized parade masquerading as a
political protest on Sunday. These are people who honestly care
about helping underprivileged or discriminated people in this
country, and are trying to work "from the inside" to make their party
of choice work for them, even if they don't agree 100% with all the
issues promoted by their official platform (the Iraq war, gay
marriage amendment, etc.). They are working in two directions at
once -- encouraging their party to project a more welcoming image to
minorities of all kinds, while trying to convince their own
communities that a Republican government may actually provide more
opportunities for them to improve their social standing. It was a
bit of an effort to get them to talk "off-message" but I suspect that
would be no different were I challenging the ideas of their
Democratic counterparts.
Sometimes their optimism was a bit much -- a couple of them felt the
gay marriage amendment proposal may actually advance the gay rights
movement because it will put forth explicit legislation that, once
passed, will allow the courts to officially rule on their
constitutionality; until then, they say, the laws will remain vague
and the issue unresolved. I think this kind of reasoning is endemic
of a tendency I kept observing in my interviews, their willingness to
rationalize a good outcome out of almost any position their party
advocates, for the sake of retaining a stake in determing the
platform over the long term. This I find kind of scary, this need to
rationalize in order to stay in lockstep with the agenda (especially
when seconds later they claim the party is all for embracing dissent
and diversity of thought). It really does border on a kind of
faith. But I can't dismiss this entirely as mere delusion on their
part. In some cases they may be visionaries -- one delegate from the
poorest city in New Jersey has been trying to establish programs to
wean his community off of welfare dependency and stand on their own
two feet, and I applaud him for doing that.
I may develop this into a long-term project to see what minority
Republicans are doing all over the country, if their actions really
live up to their ideals for a better society. If anything I just want
to break out of the morass of cliched longstanding biases held by
both parties, and possibly learn something about what real people in
are actually doing to help their communities, and to what effect.
Btw Gabe, I've been meaning to thank you for recommending STUCK ON
YOU -- it's one of the funniest (and heartwarming!) new films I've
seen lately.
15081
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 6:58pm
Subject: Re: Auteur as commodity: Erratum
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Henrik Sylow"
> wrote:
> is auteurism reserved for the few, the wellfonded and the
> > strong willed, who are able to (to a certain degree) dismiss
> audience
> > and critical judgement?
> >
> > Henrik
>
> Yes, as it always was.
I misunderstood your question, Henrik. Auteurism as a critical
practice is and always has been a minority taste and a minority
movement -- a pretty small one at that. Auteurism as a marketing
tool is now universal. The latter certainly puts directors like the
late J-C Biette, who purge their work of handholds for hype, at a
disadvantage, but the wide recognition of directors as artists
probably made such a crotchety career possible (and
necessary) in the first place. It's a blessing and a curse.
15082
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 7:28pm
Subject: Re: Politics (OT)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Lee"
The only real political activist I've ever known -- someone who
rebuilds countries after disasters, restructures aid programs,
makes Idi Amin types respect human rights and so on -- is a
Republican, and he has always done well under Republican
presidents. He even worked for Koch for a while, cancelling NYC
welfare contracts that were mostly in the hands of welfare
gangsters. All his innovations (based on hundreds of viewings of
the key Capra films -- he doesn't have a high school diploma)
have been designed to help people achieve indepndence by
eliminating handouts, whether disaster relief materials or
welfare checks, which always fall into the hands of people who
doll them out in a way that secures their own power and profit.
But he voted for Clinton in 1992 because, as he put it, "I can't vote
for a fascist."
Glad you liked Stuck on You. Gabe and I have both written about
it. I just did a piece for the magazine of the Special Olympics on a
new film the Farrellys produced, The Ringer, about a guy who
tries to fix the Special Olympics. I got to speak at length to Peter
about the evolution of their casting of people w. disabilities, and
a documentary he's doing about Rocket Valliere, the guy making
the speech during the end credits of Stuck On You, who's a
friend of theirs. I like everything they've done, but Stuck On You
was when I discovered them (having of course seen Mary, like
everyone) and worked my way back through the oeuvre.
15083
From: peckinpah20012000
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 8:50pm
Subject: Multi-Region DVD Players
Dear Group,
Apologies for raising an item which has occurred before but I've just
discovered a Cyberhome DVD Player (which can be converted to multi-
format)here in Black Rock in a sale for $40.
Has anybody any experience of the reliability of this model?
One pays for what one gets in the USA so cheapness is no indication
of performance.
I was thinking of buying one from yesasia.com or Five Star Laser
which retail $100.
Thanking you all in advance,
Tony Williams
15084
From: George Robinson
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 8:59pm
Subject: Re: Multi-Region DVD Players
I have a CyberHome and so far have no complaints. It's ridiculously easy to
make it all-region compatible.
g
What we need is more people who specialize in the impossible.
-- Theodore Roethke
----- Original Message -----
From: "peckinpah20012000"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 4:50 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Multi-Region DVD Players
> Dear Group,
>
> Apologies for raising an item which has occurred before but I've just
> discovered a Cyberhome DVD Player (which can be converted to multi-
> format)here in Black Rock in a sale for $40.
>
> Has anybody any experience of the reliability of this model?
> One pays for what one gets in the USA so cheapness is no indication
> of performance.
>
> I was thinking of buying one from yesasia.com or Five Star Laser
> which retail $100.
>
> Thanking you all in advance,
>
> Tony Williams
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
15085
From: Kevin Lee
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 9:04pm
Subject: Re: Ashes of N.Y. Times
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"
wrote:
> The piece on Zhang Yimou today begins by identifying him as "the
Hong Kong film-maker" -- ?
>
>
For crying out loud, someone please give me a fucking job!
For those looking for more Hero discussion, much activity on the
following threads (which may not highlight properly after I post this:
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000010/thread/11463013
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000010/thread/11392298
Kevin
15086
From: Craig Keller
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 9:06pm
Subject: Re: Multi-Region DVD Players
> I have a CyberHome and so far have no complaints. It's ridiculously
> easy to
> make it all-region compatible.
I've always been curious in regard to making a normal R1 off-the-shelf
DVD player multi-region compatible, how one gets it to start converting
PAL to NTSC -- no super-technical hardware modification is required?
cmk.
15087
From: George Robinson
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 9:10pm
Subject: Re: Multi-Region DVD Players
I don't know about the PAL NTSC thing -- hasn't come up for me yet.
But the CyberHome is converted to all-region by changing a few settings on
one of the menus.
That's all. (And I found out that it does, indeed, work, when I played a
couple of Malaysian VCDs a friend had given me. Unfortunately, one of them
doesn't have English subtitles, but that's not the fault of the DVD player.
And it will teach me that I ought to learn Malaysian.)
g
What we need is more people who specialize in the impossible.
-- Theodore Roethke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Keller"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [a_film_by] Multi-Region DVD Players
>
> > I have a CyberHome and so far have no complaints. It's ridiculously
> > easy to
> > make it all-region compatible.
>
> I've always been curious in regard to making a normal R1 off-the-shelf
> DVD player multi-region compatible, how one gets it to start converting
> PAL to NTSC -- no super-technical hardware modification is required?
>
> cmk.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
15088
From: peckinpah20012000
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 9:08pm
Subject: Re: Ashes of N.Y. Times
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Lee"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"
> wrote:
> > The piece on Zhang Yimou today begins by identifying him as "the
> Hong Kong film-maker" -- ?
> >
> >
>
> For crying out loud, someone please give me a fucking job!
>
>
> Kevin\
This sound so much like those past reviews by Elvis Mitchell I used
to read and send letters to the editor complaining about his
inaccuracies which, of course, were never published.
Fortunately, he finally put on his blue suede shoes and is now film
critic for NPR in "All Things Ill-Considered."
Tony Williams
15089
From: Kevin Lee
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 9:20pm
Subject: Another roast for Dave Kehr - REBECCA vs. SHADOW OF A DOUBT
Now that, thanks to Jess, I know who is responsible for unleashing
Harvey Weinstein on Asian cinema, I would like to bring attention to
Dave Kehr's capsules on a couple of Hitchcock classics I recently
revisited. Dave's comments on REBECCA and SHADOW OF A DOUBT gave me
some food for thought, as I thought REBECCA to be more the
masterpiece, in terms of presenting a compelling and multi-layered
world of emotions and meanings. Stylistically both films are
masterful in constructing a troubled subjectivity -- I'd be curious
to hear from others how SHADOW OF A DOUBT advances this innovation of
Hitchcock's, constructing perspective. The following comments can be
found in the chireader.com/movies brief reviews database:
"There are too many conflicting levels of authorship--between Alfred
Hitchcock, Daphne du Maurier, and David O. Selznick--for this 1940
film to be a complete success, but through its first two-thirds it is
as perfect a myth of adolescence as any of the Disney films,
documenting the childlike, nameless heroine's initiation into the
adult mysteries of sex, death, and identity, and the impossibility of
reconciling these forces with family strictures. As a Hitchcock film,
it is, with the closely related Suspicion, one of his rare studies
from a female point of view, and it is surprisingly tender and
compassionate; the same issues, treated from a male viewpoint, would
return in Vertigo and Marnie (Laurence Olivier's Maxim becoming the
Sean Connery character of the latter film)."
"Alfred Hitchcock's first indisputable masterpiece (1943). Joseph
Cotten is Uncle Charlie, aka the Merry Widow Murderer, who returns to
his hometown to visit his niece and namesake, played by Teresa
Wright. Hitchcock's discovery of darkness within the heart of small-
town America remains one of his most harrowing films, a peek behind
the facade of security that reveals loneliness, despair, and death."
How is REBECCA not a complete success? If it's due to too
many "conflicting levels of authorship", how so? Are there too many
contradictory meanings in this film, and if so how? Is SHADOW OF A
DOUBT really considered by many to be Hitch's "first indisputable
masterpiece"? On what terms, precisely?
Genuinely curious to know how my evaluative approach differs from
Dave and others.
15090
From: Dave Kehr
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 9:29pm
Subject: Re: Multi-Region DVD Players
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:
> I don't know about the PAL NTSC thing -- hasn't come up for me yet.
>
>
>
You do need to buy a player that converts PAL to NTSC as well as
removes the region protection. I have a Malata but they aren't hard
to find on e-bay or the Asian DVD sites.
dk
15091
From: Craig Keller
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 9:33pm
Subject: Re: Re: Multi-Region DVD Players
On Friday, September 3, 2004, at 05:29 PM, Dave Kehr wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
> wrote:
>> I don't know about the PAL NTSC thing -- hasn't come up for me yet.
>>
> You do need to buy a player that converts PAL to NTSC as well as
> removes the region protection. I have a Malata but they aren't hard
> to find on e-bay or the Asian DVD sites.
I have a Malata as well -- very happy with it. George, since you're in
New York, you can also buy one at Kim's on St. Mark's (that's where I
got mine), but it might be cheaper to order online. I'm not sure.
cmk.
15092
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 9:42pm
Subject: Re: Another roast for Dave Kehr - REBECCA vs. SHADOW OF A DOUBT
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Lee"
wrote:
>
> Genuinely curious to know how my evaluative approach differs
from
> Dave and others.
DOS and AH were at odds throughout Rebecca. DOS had to
approve each scene after rehgearsal w. actors and before
allowing AH to shoot.Olivier's dreadful character flatters the
snobby tastes of DOS; the Cockney humor AH wd have brought
to the characterization was vetoed. One of Sir Larry's stiffest,
coldest, most disgusting performances. The revelation in the
beach cottage would have been done like the stable kiss in
Vertigo if DOS had allowed, etc. Hitchcock told Truffaut it wasn't a
Hitchck film -- Truffaut considered Suspicion AH's critique of
Rebecca, correctly IMO. Undeniably great in Rebecca: the
hair-combing scene, and all that goes on around it; the tracking
shots and v.o; Fontaine.
Shadow is AH's first free film as an American director, and one of
his greatest. For more, see the chapter on Shadow in my book
Hitchcock at Work.
15093
From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 10:41pm
Subject: Re: Multi-Region DVD Players
> I've just
> discovered a Cyberhome DVD Player (which can be converted to multi-
> format)here in Black Rock in a sale for $40.
>
> Has anybody any experience of the reliability of this model?
Which model? The CyberHome 500 (which amazon.com sells for about $65) is supposed to convert anamorphic DVDs correctly, but other, lower-priced CyberHomes might "squeeze" such material. (There should be info about all this at http://www.nerd-out.com/forum)
15094
From: peckinpah20012000
Date: Fri Sep 3, 2004 11:33pm
Subject: Re: Multi-Region DVD Players
Thanks for the information Jess. I'll check the model tomorrow and
I'm grateful for the link. My DVD is a Phillips which can play Shaw
Brothers VCDs but not those from the Mainland and some multi-region
diks from Japan - to say nothing about copies.
I guess the technology is advancing all the time and one must keep up
with it.
Tony
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"
wrote:
> > I've just
> > discovered a Cyberhome DVD Player (which can be converted to
multi-
> > format)here in Black Rock in a sale for $40.
> >
> > Has anybody any experience of the reliability of this model?
>
> Which model? The CyberHome 500 (which amazon.com sells for about
$65) is supposed to convert anamorphic DVDs correctly, but other,
lower-priced CyberHomes might "squeeze" such material. (There should
be info about all this at http://www.nerd-out.com/forum)
15095
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Sat Sep 4, 2004 0:24am
Subject: Re: The Classical Hollywood Cinema
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ebiri@a... wrote:
> Indeed, but religious ritual, and Classical Greek theatre is a lot
> more structured and strict than Hollywood genre. I don't know of
any
> Classical work that was both a comedy and a tragedy. I really don't
> know the answer to this -- is there one that legitimately crosses
> those boundaries? (And I don't mean in some retrospective
postmodern
> sense [the way that some might argue that THE TERMINATOR is a
> Western or something], I mean in a way that Aristotle might have
> recognized.)
>
> -Bilge
I asked someone about this, and he suggested Euripides' "Ion,"
"Alcestis," "Iphigenia among the Taurians" and "Helen" as plays that
contain both comic and tragic elements.
Paul
15096
From: Brandon
Date: Sat Sep 4, 2004 2:57am
Subject: Re: Re: Multi-Region DVD Players
>Which model? The CyberHome 500 (which amazon.com sells for about $65) is
>supposed to convert anamorphic DVDs correctly, but other, lower-priced
>CyberHomes might "squeeze" such material. (There should be info about all
>this at http://www.nerd-out.com/forum)
I have the 500 model and it is nice. The remote-control's buttons are too
small, and it's slow to respond, but it does convert anamorphic
correctly... AND it converts DTS audio tracks to regular analog stereo
automatically (useful for my "Thin Red Line" DVD)... AND it has a
not-so-complicated secret setting to disable region coding and macrovision
copy protection... AND it impressively converts PAL-format discs to
NTSC. I've watched the region-2 discs of Aoyama's "Eureka" and Kurosawa's
"Ran" (haven't watched the Chris Marker documentary on disc two yet) on a
regular 12-year-old American television with this player.
The player has shown some weird behaviour: refusing to read DVD-RWs that my
older Panasonic model reads fine... the occasional video glitch... and on
one DVD, the arrow/selector on the menus is invisible, so you can't tell
what you're choosing until you've chosen it. But I do recommend the
player... it has come in very handy for me as a secondary device (I already
had a DVD player with a nicer remote and no video problems, but it couldn't
handle foreign region discs).
As for the Cyberhome 300 model, which I believe is the most commonly-sold
one now, in the smaller size... according to what I've read online, it
should be able to handle all region discs and do the PAL/NTSC conversion,
but I don't think it can disable Macrovision protection like the 500
can. Before mail-ordering one, call your local Radio Shack store. Ours
carries them for $40 - saves you the shipping charge.
15097
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat Sep 4, 2004 3:59am
Subject: Class Relations in H'wd (not OT, IMO)
Following up on my recommendation of Below the Line, a book by a crew
guy who left H'wd and told all afterward, here's part of a human
interest story from the Sacramento Bee that Joe McBride sent me:
Maid who won suit against Sony executive decries slavery
By LAURA WIDES, Associated Press Writer
September 3, 2004
LOS ANGELES - A Filipino woman who won $825,000 in a lawsuit claiming
a Hollywood executive and his wife enslaved her said the case should
be a warning to others.
Nena Ruiz, 60, is a former schoolteacher from the Philippines who
worked as a domestic servant for James Jackson and his wife,
Elizabeth.
Jackson is vice president of legal affairs for Sony Pictures
Entertainment.
In a lawsuit filed last year, Ruiz claimed the Jacksons took away her
passport and paid her $300 for a year's work at the couple's Culver
City condominium. She said Elizabeth Jackson also slapped her and
pulled her hair repeatedly.
The couple have denied the allegations, and their lawyer said they are
considering appealing.
Ruiz said she often worked 18 hours a day and was forced to do strange
household chores such as heating chicken nuggets and cutting up
bananas or pears for the couple's two dogs while she was fed
leftovers and slept in a dog bed.
"I want others who are enslaving people to know that they could have
the same future as the Jacksons," Ruiz said Thursday at a news
conference.
A jury last week awarded her back wages and punitive damages, finding
the Jacksons liable for involuntary servitude, false imprisonment,
invasion of privacy, negligence and fraud. Jurors also found
Elizabeth Jackson liable for assault and battery.
The Jacksons threatened to call the police and immigration
authorities if Ruiz left and told her that she would be locked up and
would never see her family again, said Dan Stormer, one of Ruiz's
attorneys.
"Slavery still exists, and I want to tell victims they should not
tolerate it and should not be afraid to seek help," Ruiz said.
15098
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat Sep 4, 2004 4:03am
Subject: Okay America
Anyone ever see the above-referenced Tay Garnett? It's playing at
Cinecom. Same year as Her Man.
15099
From:
Date: Sat Sep 4, 2004 6:23am
Subject: Re: Another roast for Dave Kehr - REBECCA vs. SHADOW OF A DOUBT
Purely on the level of drama, Shadow is much tighter than Rebecca. I think
the latter suffers when The Law, the court proceedings and the more pronounced
presence of Max, returns for the last half hour or so. But without The Law, the
Disney aspect of the film wouldn't be so magical.
Kevin John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
15100
From: Jess Amortell
Date: Sat Sep 4, 2004 2:33pm
Subject: History is made by "What?" (was: anachronistic language ..)
In the halcyon days of early July, controversy raged over the
anachronistic use of contemporary language in films set in the past.
Bill Krohn identified a major irritant:
> An example
> I've cited here is "What?" as an all-purpose question addressed to
> someone who's being reticent. It's definitely something that happened
> in the last 20 years, and now I hear it in dialogue of many eras --
> wouldn't be surpruised if it's in Troy and Arthur. It even bothered
> me hearing it at the start of the Texas Chainsaw remake, which is a
> period film set in the 70s. People didn't SAY "What?" like that in
> the 70s.
Then, in response to David Cairns'
> > I seem to recall saying "What?" as a little kid though (going back
> 25
> > yrs or so) and getting told off for it, so I'm sure that reponse
> has
> > been around longer than some of you think.
>
> Were you saying "What?" because you didn't understand someone? That
> is rude -- you should say, "Excuse me?" But I can't believe you were
> saying "What?" 25 years ago because someone was biting his lip,
> indicating he could speak volumes if..., or looked unhappy but didn't
> want to... and so on. I will stand grudgingly corrected if it was the
> latter.
All this seemed indisputable to me at the time, but to my amazement I've
just come across what seems to be the ahistorical "What?" in Borzage's
HISTORY IS MADE AT NIGHT (1937)! Not Troy and Arthur, but Charles
Boyer and Jean Arthur.
In the last reel, the couple, for old times' sake, have ordered a
shipboard version of sidekick Leo Carrillo's signature lobster dish.
Unbeknownst to them, the meal actually was prepared by its creator, who
is a stowaway on board.
Boyer (realistic): "Not very good?"
Arthur (upbeat): "No, it's wonderful. Go ahead, taste it. Don't be
afraid."
Boyer (dubious): "Impossible. There is only one man who can make..."
(Then, double take as he samples the food)
Arthur (interrogating his surprised expression): "What?"
Boyer: "Well, I may be wrong but... [Another bite] How do you like
that?"
Arthur, patient: "What?"
Boyer: "Excuse me one minute, darling." (gets up and heads for kitchen)
Arthur (clamorous now, sublime in exasperation): "WHAT?"
While it's true that Boyer isn't really "reticent" here, rather
momentarily dumbstruck, Arthur's first "What?" seems to qualify as (in
Bill's words) "'What?' as a way of getting someone to talk," and the
tone is right -- she could have uttered it last week. The last "What?"
(while she doesn't receive an answer here either) ringingly amplifies
this. (The middle "What?" might not qualify in itself since it could be
understood specifically as a response to his line, "How do you like
_that_?")
Did Jean Arthur invent "What?" Surely, no one else could make it sound
so timeless...
--
monterone@m...
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