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Posts From the Internet Film Discussion Group, a_film_by
This group is dedicated to discussing film as art
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17401
From: J. Mabe
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:07am
Subject: Re: Seeking 35mm Cassavetes Prints
Tell your friend to ask this group:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/filmprogrammers/
... they're very helpful, and if anyone would know it
would be the folks on that list.
--- Elina Shatkin wrote:
> A good friend of mine is trying to stage a
> Cassavetes retrospective at
> the Tirana Film Festival (yup, Albania does have a
> film industry). He
> is doggedly trying to find 35mm prints (either
> American or European) of
> various Cassavetes prints. I am trying to help him
> but I know NOTHING
> about prints and booking. Does anyone have any
> suggestions or contact
> info for studios or collectors who might have JC
> prints? I know the
> Cinematheque here in LA screened "Too Late Blues" a
> while back as part
> of its "Not On Video" series.
>
> PS - He's already barked up the Ray Carney tree
> without much success.
>
> --Elina Shatkin
>
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17402
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:09am
Subject: Re: Re: Jean Eustache films translated to English
> _Une Sale Histoire_ is absolutely amazing. Even my crummy
> sixth-generation dub of it is amazing. So it's been subtitled?
Absolutely. - Dan
17403
From: samfilms2003
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:35am
Subject: Re: Distance/Nearness, Coen, Wilder (Was: Coen/McCarey)
> but I had the warmest feelings
> towards Marge, HI, Norville, Ulysses - idiots all.
I don't think Marge is any kind of idiot.
Well, how you can you not like Marge ?
Here's my theory about "Fargo" -- Frances McDormand controls the
pacing of all her scenes, a secret auteur.
I mean if Joel C were to say "pick it up" she could just say "not possible"
-Sam
17404
From: Samuel Bréan
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:28am
Subject: New Marker video
I picked up the November/December program of the Centre Pompidou this
morning: There's going to be a premiere of Chris Marker's new video, CHATS
PERCHÉS, on December 3rd. It will then be screened on French TV (Arte) the
following day. I have no other details, so I was wondering if anybody knew
something about it ?
(There's also a complete retrospective of Vincente Minnelli's films in
December and January!)
Samuel.
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Actions Solidaires : volontaire à l'étranger
http://www.msn.fr/actionssolidaires/Default.asp?Ath=f
17405
From: Jonathan Rosenbaum
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:10pm
Subject: Re: Jean Eustache films translated to English
Two of the documentaries are available in a DVD included with Bernard
Eisenschitz's excellent bi-annual magayine CINEMA, but I'm afraid
they DO need subtitles for people like me who aren't fluent. LE
COCHON doesn't need subtitles, but this is the only example I'm aware
of.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "thebradstevens"
> wrote:
> >
> > Gala distributed an English-subtitled print of MES PETITES
> AMOUREUSES
> > in the UK around July 1976 (Jonathan Rosenbaum reviewed it in
> MONTHLY
> > FILM BULLETIN 510).
>
> It was shown here too. It never has gone to video. Neither have
> Mauvaises frequentations and Pere Noel a les yeux bleus, which New
> Yorker subtitled and released before Maman. Some of the
> documentaries -- which I haven't seen -- reportedly don't need
> subtitles, but they're even rarer than the rest. Too bad: He is one
> of the best French directors of all time.
17406
From: Jonathan Rosenbaum
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:15pm
Subject: Re: Jean Eustache films translated to English
>
> The program for the Eustache festival at the Walter Reade a few
years back
> stated confidently that LE COCHON didn't need subtitles, but I
thought it
> desperately, tragically needed them.
I guess we disagree about this--although my memory about this could
be faulty. The only time I ever saw this was years ago, at the
Viennale in Vienna (which is where I am now). But I came away feeling
like I'd actually seen the film--which wasn't the case with UNE SALE
HISTOIRE when I saw it in a Paris cinema (the only time I've seen it).
17407
From: Travis Miles
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:16pm
Subject: Re: Re: Jean Eustache films translated to English
I've been told, perhaps wrongly, that the French in LE COCHON is of such a
countrified, particularly colloquial variety that the majority of French
viewers would be in the same boat as us anglophones. A Parisian friend of
mine who saw the film confirmed this, but said it was probably like the
average American's struggle with Glaswegian or Scouse accents; difficult but
possible.
This same argument, however, was used to excuse the lack of subtitles on
NUMERO ZERO at the NFT in London, and the same Parisian friend of mind
rubbished that entirely, stating that Eustache's mom was "a bit rough" but
perfectly understandable. That was a painful screening, not understanding a
word. How flat would PORTRAIT OF JASON be if you couldn't follow the
stories!
T
On 10/26/04 10:15 AM, "Jonathan Rosenbaum" wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> The program for the Eustache festival at the Walter Reade a few
> years back
>> stated confidently that LE COCHON didn't need subtitles, but I
> thought it
>> desperately, tragically needed them.
>
> I guess we disagree about this--although my memory about this could
> be faulty. The only time I ever saw this was years ago, at the
> Viennale in Vienna (which is where I am now). But I came away feeling
> like I'd actually seen the film--which wasn't the case with UNE SALE
> HISTOIRE when I saw it in a Paris cinema (the only time I've seen it).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
17408
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:59pm
Subject: Re: Re: Jean Eustache films translated to English
>> The program for the Eustache festival at the Walter Reade a few
> years back
>> stated confidently that LE COCHON didn't need subtitles, but I
> thought it
>> desperately, tragically needed them.
>
> I guess we disagree about this--although my memory about this could
> be faulty. The only time I ever saw this was years ago, at the
> Viennale in Vienna (which is where I am now). But I came away feeling
> like I'd actually seen the film--which wasn't the case with UNE SALE
> HISTOIRE when I saw it in a Paris cinema (the only time I've seen it).
Yeah, UNE SALE HISTOIRE wouldn't be much without subtitles. LE COCHON
obviously gives you more of a general idea. But I take it to be, not a
film about a process, but rather a film about a society which defines and
is defined by such processes. The people in that film talked quite a lot
- maybe they weren't saying anything relevant to the action, but cinema is
about particulars, and I was very unhappy not to know what any of the
people were expressing. - Dan
17409
From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:41pm
Subject: Re: Love Streams
I'm not sure if this has already been pointed out or
not, but for those that want to see it, "Love Streams"
is currently out on a French R2 DVD. Not sure about
the quality.
Jonathan Takagi
17410
From: Craig Keller
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:49pm
Subject: Re: Re: Love Streams
>I'm not sure if this has already been pointed out or
>not, but for those that want to see it, "Love Streams"
>is currently out on a French R2 DVD. Not sure about
>the quality.
Yes -- and to corroborate what someone wrote a few days ago speculating on a French theatrical release, there was indeed one (directly preceded the DVD) -- I recall a tasteful full page ad in one of the spring 2003 (May?) issues of Cahiers. (Unfortunately, the ad did contain quite a gaffe -- They spelled his name "Cassavetes" in one place, and "Cassevetes" in another. Ouch.)
craig.
17411
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:09pm
Subject: Film Comment Fall 1966: Don Skoller
I just read Don Skoller's "To Rescue 'Gertrud'" in the Fall '66 issue
of Film Comment (pre-Film Society), which I inherited from Lurking
Mafrvin before his departure to Berkeley, and it's the best thing
I've read on the film. Here's the last paragraph: "Does all this seem
terribly inconsequential when people are dying in Vietnam, Chicago
and Texas? Possibly. But one has the feeling that items of
information alone do not lead to, permit, or prevent napalm orgies
and Texas towers. There is a tone and texture to experience, and
there are things that cannot possibly happen in the presence of a
certain kind of light that are inevitable when that light goes
unperceived. It is toward this basic awakening that Dreyer works.
Long may he." That is right up there with Straub's "Feroce,"
published around the same time in the CdC Dreyer issue.
Perhaps the essay is reprinted in some form in Dreyer in Double
Vision, Skoller's only book, which I certainly intend to buy
belatedly now. What I'd like to know is: What the hell happened to
Skoller? Where is he? (In 1966 he was teaching English literature and
film -- this was before Film Studies -- at Oneonta State University
College in Oneonta, NY.) Is he still writing on film?
In the same issue, I just noticed: Emile de Antonio reviewing the
published script of Salt of the Earth. Film Comment used to be a hell
of a magazine!
17412
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:18pm
Subject: Adorno on Aldrich
While wasting time in Borders, I noticed a new Adorno collection that
reprints my favorite essay of his: Television as Ideology. In it he
does an ideological analysis of Aldrich's tv series Dante's Inferno
(without of course mentiong aAldrich), and, without realizing it, of
film noir. I'm not a huge fan, but that one is highly recommended. I
forget the title -- it's not on amazon, for some reason -- but it's a
fat paperback...
17413
From: Maxime Renaudin
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:22pm
Subject: The death of Maria Malibran, Werner Schroeter
Is that anything but camp?
17414
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:25pm
Subject: Re: The death of Maria Malibran, Werner Schroeter
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime Renaudin"
wrote:
>
> Is that anything but camp?
As I recall, yes. But it is also camp, of a high order.
17415
From: Maxime Renaudin
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:24pm
Subject: Re: Love streams
I won't vote "masterpiece". And I hope it's not a crime.
To be honest, I can't remember without a strong emotion my discovery
of Love Streams. But, a few years later, after a painful re-sight
in '97, leaving the theater right in the middle, I did not see any
Cassavetes film again. Up to now. Actually, Cassavetes' work is
regularly, if not constantly, shown in Paris, since '92 or '93, when
he was "re-discovered" here. A theater is currently showing the main
titles since last July. Therefore, after such an unanimous praise
among members of this group, I decided to try again. To update and
understand the why of my broken love. And I did not leave before the
end... But my reserves are still there. I'm not insensitive to this
sentimental overflow, to the constant malaise that doesn't spare the
breaks, the crises and the unexpected. But, simply, I don't take it.
Over-forthcoming dialogues, desperately over-played characters, in
such way that the intended authenticity in human relations doesn't
show up. The feeling of urgency, if any, doesn't appear as the fruit
of any necessity. It seems to me that this crazy – and exciting –
enterprise works, maybe paradoxically, against the actors – as
characters – and against the moment. Can't feel anything but the
fake. This incredible freedom runs empty, as if each scene was
mostly a declaration of faith, toward a certain idea of cinema, more
than anything else. I can't be satisfied with good intentions, even
the best ever.
Maxime
17416
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:31pm
Subject: Re: Love streams (and Kubrick)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime Renaudin"
wrote:
>
> I won't vote "masterpiece". This incredible freedom runs empty, as
if each scene was
> mostly a declaration of faith, toward a certain idea of cinema,
more
> than anything else.
I don't agree, obviously, but Maxime's formulation reminds me of why
Biette thought Kubrick missed being a cineaste until his last film
(even as J-C was seeing and reseeing Lolita: 7 times...): he believed
too much in cinema. Again, I don't think I agree, but it's an
interesting formulation. Is it possible to believe too much in
cinema...and not enough in life?
17417
From: Maxime Renaudin
Date: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:37pm
Subject: Re: Love streams (and Kubrick)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666" Is
it possible to believe too much in
> cinema...and not enough in life?
Actually, I believe that it's precisely what Téchiné said about
himself, after he made Les Roseaux Sauvages (seen, at that time as
revival - from cinema to life). And he was deadly right.
17418
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 0:30am
Subject: Re: The death of Maria Malibran, Werner Schroeter
--- Maxime Renaudin wrote:
>
> Is that anything but camp?
>
>
>
>
Very SERIOUS camp -- of which Scroeter is a master.
See also his "Salome."
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17419
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 0:33am
Subject: Re: Re: Love streams (and Kubrick)
--- Maxime Renaudin wrote:
>
> Actually, I believe that it's precisely what Téchiné
> said about
> himself, after he made Les Roseaux Sauvages (seen,
> at that time as
> revival - from cinema to life). And he was deadly
> right.
>
Oh he was just being a sentimental old fool. He's had
quite a life, away from the cameras.
Somebody should make a film about it some day. Perhaps
Vecchiali or Nolot.
__________________________________________________
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17420
From: Saul Symonds
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:37am
Subject: Re: Love Streams
> I taped it off of "Z" channel many years ago. The
> moment where John and Gena dance in the kitchen to the
> tune of "I'm Almost in Love with You" (a song he wrote
> with Bo Harwood) is one of the most magical in all of
> cinema.
>
Speaking of the most magical and tender moments in all of cinema, I
think the scene in "Cross of Iron" where the young soldier is trying
to avoid the patches of sunlight in the woods as he believes that will
bring the company good luck, is up there with this one.
Saul.
17421
From: Aaron Graham
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:54am
Subject: Dante's "Explorers"
Just picked this recently released dvd and was wondering if anyone
(perhaps Bill?) had any clue as to what 'footage has been added and
what has been deleted out of the theatrical version', as it mentions
on the back of the case. I can't find any information online, and am
curious if this is some sort of alternate cut.
-Aaron
17422
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:55am
Subject: Re: Film Comment Fall 1966: Don Skoller
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
> Perhaps the essay is reprinted in some form in Dreyer in Double
> Vision, Skoller's only book, which I certainly intend to buy
> belatedly now. What I'd like to know is: What the hell happened to
> Skoller? Where is he? (In 1966 he was teaching English literature
and
> film -- this was before Film Studies -- at Oneonta State University
> College in Oneonta, NY.) Is he still writing on film?
>
I found another essay by Skoller, "'Praxis' as a Cinematic Principle
in the Films of Robert Bresson" -- praxis in the Aristotelian sense.
http://66.108.51.239/skoller-bresson-low-res.pdf
or
http://66.108.51.239/skoller-bresson.pdf
I wonder whether Donald Skoller is related to Jeffrey Skoller, several
of whose writings on film are available online:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/search?tb=art&qt=%22Jeffrey+Skoller%22
Paul
17423
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:02am
Subject: Re: Film Comment Fall 1966: Don Skoller
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
>
> >
>
> I found another essay by Skoller, "'Praxis' as a Cinematic Principle
> in the Films of Robert Bresson" -- praxis in the Aristotelian sense.
> http://66.108.51.239/skoller-bresson-low-res.pdf
> or
> http://66.108.51.239/skoller-bresson.pdf
Thanks, Paul. Is this reprinted in the Bresson white elephant I
didn't buy?
17424
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:07am
Subject: Re: Love Streams
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Saul Symonds" wrote:
>
>
> > I taped it off of "Z" channel many years ago. The
> > moment where John and Gena dance in the kitchen to the
> > tune of "I'm Almost in Love with You" (a song he wrote
> > with Bo Harwood) is one of the most magical in all of
> > cinema.
> >
>
> Speaking of the most magical and tender moments in all of cinema, I
> think the scene in "Cross of Iron" where the young soldier is trying
> to avoid the patches of sunlight in the woods as he believes that
will
> bring the company good luck, is up there with this one.
>
> Saul.
Not to detract from the film, which is great, but the idea comes from
the book, which was Sam Fuller's favorite war novel. I gave a copy to
Milius as a thank-you for the interview he gave me on Apocalypse for
l'Humanite, and I'm told it was his travel reading when he came to
Torino for their Milius retro in 2002.
17425
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:22am
Subject: Re: Dante's "Explorers"
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Graham"
wrote:
>
> Just picked this recently released dvd and was wondering if anyone
> (perhaps Bill?) had any clue as to what 'footage has been added and
> what has been deleted out of the theatrical version', as it
mentions
> on the back of the case. I can't find any information online, and
am
> curious if this is some sort of alternate cut.
>
> -Aaron
I'm not sure what it is. Joe says they were aggressively nasty in
telling him to forget about digging up any omitted negative, because
he should be grateful they were putting out such a forgotten film on
DVD at all.
Explorers was a much more ambitious film than he was able to finish,
sheerly because of time. Diller, who was a sadistic studio head, gave
him an impossible delivery date and made him hew to it even though
Joe (pretty strong coming off Gremlins) told him it was out of the
question. What was screened for the press and released was basically
a rough-cut that he rushed to deliver, renouncing any plans he had
for the third act, which he describes as a Teilhard de Chardin-type
concept where it turns out that the kids, the couch potato aliens and
all the other characters have become part of some kind of world mind,
dreaming each other's dreams and so on. (Remember the moment that is
in there now, where Dick Miller talks about the strange dreams he's
been having? Tip of the iceberg.)
That concept -- the footage for which was shot -- was simply too
complex to "find" in the editing room in time for Diller's July
release date -- he was determined, ironically, to beat Fox to the
punch: They (we: I worked there then) were releasing Cocoon the same
summer, by Joe's old friend Ron Howard. So he simply slapped on the
non-ending we have. I assume that "deleted scenes" means the usual (=
scenes that probably needed to be deleted from the rush-cut). What
they laughed in the director's face about this time was the idea of
giving him access to the negative trims, which are still at
Paramount, but will never be printed again unless a Brion Jamison
(Big Red One) goes to work at Paramount Home Video, much less turned
over to Joe to finish the film he made, which would almost certainly
be his best.
The other film that Paramount should add about 45 minutes to for the
DVD but are too unimaginative to undertake it is Ragtime. Diller cut
the whole Brad Dourif-Rosa Luxembourg plot because he didn't want to
release "two Rosa Luxembourg films thesame year (cf. Reds). "Too many
notes..."
17426
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:46am
Subject: Bresson, Narrative plus non-narrative (was: Don Skoller)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
> wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps the essay is reprinted in some form in Dreyer in Double
> > Vision, Skoller's only book, which I certainly intend to buy
> > belatedly now. What I'd like to know is: What the hell happened
to
> > Skoller? Where is he? (In 1966 he was teaching English literature
> and
> > film -- this was before Film Studies -- at Oneonta State
University
> > College in Oneonta, NY.) Is he still writing on film?
> >
>
> I found another essay by Skoller, "'Praxis' as a Cinematic Principle
> in the Films of Robert Bresson" -- praxis in the Aristotelian sense.
> http://66.108.51.239/skoller-bresson-low-res.pdf
> or
> http://66.108.51.239/skoller-bresson.pdf
>
> I wonder whether Donald Skoller is related to Jeffrey Skoller,
several
> of whose writings on film are available online:
> http://www.findarticles.com/p/search?tb=art&qt=%22Jeffrey+Skoller%22
>
> Paul
Thanks again, Pual -- I read the essay, and it's quite good, both in
its particular application to Un codmane a mort.. and its proposal of
the concept of praxis, which seems a fruitful way to talk about the
relationship between narrative and non-narrative elements in
particular films. I should say "painfully good," because at a certain
point the author seems to have stopped writing: a major loss, IMO.
Maybe someone else will adopt the concept someday and develop it
further -- it was left in an embryonic form, but it's definitely
worth revisiting and exploiting. I recommend the article at the above
links to anyone interested in these questions, or in Bresson.
17427
From:
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:02am
Subject: Re: re: LOVE STREAMS
Adrian Martin wrote:
"Peter: can you remember/detail at all the differences between the video
version and the longer print you saw?"
I'm afraid that I've seen both versions only once, and several years ago at
that. My one theatrical viewing constitutes the only time I've seen the long
version, and I only looked at the shorter video version once. I honestly don't
remember too many details about the differences, but I have some numbers: the
MGM/UA video runs 2 hours, 2 minutes, compared to 2 hours, 21 minutes for the
theatrical release. If a R1 DVD is forthcoming, I sure hope someone at the
studio is aware of this!
Peter
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17428
From:
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:06am
Subject: Re: Re: Distance/Nearness, Coen, Wilder (Was: Coen/McCarey)
Bill Krohn wrote:
"Fellini Satyricon is the pure modern re-imagining of
the founding work of the genre, and both Fellini and Welles (in a
more dabbling way) were cartoonists."
I'm reminded of something I think I once read about Polanski, that he drew
out how he thought the characters in "Rosemary's Baby" looked before even
thinking about casting them. Has anyone else heard this before? In any case, I'd
say Polanski also belongs to this tradition.
Peter
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17429
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:20am
Subject: Re: Film Comment Fall 1966: Don Skoller
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> > I found another essay by Skoller, "'Praxis' as a Cinematic
Principle
> > in the Films of Robert Bresson" -- praxis in the Aristotelian
sense.
> > http://66.108.51.239/skoller-bresson-low-res.pdf
> > or
> > http://66.108.51.239/skoller-bresson.pdf
>
> Thanks, Paul. Is this reprinted in the Bresson white elephant I
> didn't buy?
No, unfortunately not. I checked the table of contents in James
Quandt's book.
Paul
17430
From: Damien Bona
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:11am
Subject: Re: Dante's "Explorers"
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what it is. Joe says they were aggressively nasty in
> telling him to forget about digging up any omitted negative,
because
> he should be grateful they were putting out such a forgotten film
on
> DVD at all.
>
> Explorers was a much more ambitious film than he was able to
finish,
> sheerly because of time.
It's to be hoped that Dave Kehr's rave review of the
wonderful "Explorers" in today's new DVD round-up in the New York
Times brought some solace to Joe Dante and maybe even gave Barry
Diller pause.
>Diller, who was a sadistic studio head>
I've been told that Blake Edwards based Malcolm McDowell's
(literally) sadistic studio head in "Sunset" specifically on Barry
Diller.
17431
From: George Robinson
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:21am
Subject: Hilarious item from the Wash Post
WHISPER: Wayne's world
When aging crooner Wayne Newton played for the troops in a USO show at
Iraq's Camp Liberty last week, some of the soldiers were less than thrilled.
What happened to stars like the late Bob Hope and Robin Williams
entertaining the troops? they quizzed our correspondent. Griped one enlisted
man: "Is this war so unpopular that the best we can do is Wayne Newton?"
They should shut up and be grateful. It could have been Lionel Chetwynd.
g
ON NOVEMBER 2,VOTE LIKE YOUR LIFE DEPENDED ON IT.
IT DOES.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17432
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:06am
Subject: Re: Distance/Nearness, Coen, Wilder (Was: Coen/McCarey)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
In any case, I'd
> say Polanski also belongs to this tradition.
>
Good point. Even Gittis is less free than we are -- not at all the
case w. his predecessors. And all the films end w. the triumph of
evil.
Critics really haven't some to terms w. Polanski, IMO -- his cinema
is very visual and very much his and his alone, and it runs amok
among genres. I think Pascal Kane was right: He doesn't use the old
mechanisms of fascination; he experiments with the intrinsic power of
fascination of the film spectacle itself, and makes them his theme.
But he isn't taken seriously because his seriousness is not literary.
17433
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:10am
Subject: Re: Dante's "Explorers"
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
> >
> > I'm not sure what it is. Joe says they were aggressively nasty in
> > telling him to forget about digging up any omitted negative,
> because
> > he should be grateful they were putting out such a forgotten film
> on
> > DVD at all.
> >
> > Explorers was a much more ambitious film than he was able to
> finish,
> > sheerly because of time.
>
>
> It's to be hoped that Dave Kehr's rave review of the
> wonderful "Explorers" in today's new DVD round-up in the New York
> Times brought some solace to Joe Dante and maybe even gave Barry
> Diller pause.
>
Joe sent it to his mailing list headed "19 Years Too Late!"
>
> >Diller, who was a sadistic studio head>
>
> I've been told that Blake Edwards based Malcolm McDowell's
> (literally) sadistic studio head in "Sunset" specifically on Barry
> Diller.
Seems possible. Edwards would probably tell you there were several
models. Ofhand I can't think of one who was good at slapstick.
I heard stories about Diller's sadistic joy in imposing impossible
deadlines from Joe and also from John Carpenter, who made Big Trouble
in Little China while Barry and I were at Fox. He got it done, too.
What a great film.
17434
From:
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:23am
Subject: Re: Film Comment Fall 1966: Don Skoller
"Dreyer in Double Reflection" (1973) mainly consists of essays by Dreyer,
translated from "Om Filmen". Each has an introductory comment by Donald Skoller.
He is described as an Associate Professor at City College of New York.
And working on 2 books called "Experiencing Dreyer" and "Cinematic
Consciousness".
After around 1975, publishers stopped offering the flood of film books that
briefly appeared in the previous decade. Who knows what we lost? There was no
Internet back then as an alternative either.
PS The Dreyer book sold for $3.95. My paperback copy still has a 99 cent
price tag as a bargain from Waldenbooks.
Mike Grost
17435
From:
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:03am
Subject: Judex (Feuillade) and Au hasard, Balthazar (Bresson)
Judex (Louis Feuillade, 1916) has an unusual plot construction. The same
large group of characters keep interacting with each other, often in new and
unexpected ways. This is somewhat similar to the story construction Robert Bresson
would use in Au hasard, Balthazar (1966).
There are other similarities, too. Both films largely take place in the
French countryside. In both, a woman loses her ancestral home in the country, due
to her father's problems. Both films have a sympathetic, prominent role played
by highly intelligent animals: see Judex: Episode Three: The Fantastic Dog
Pack.
Is Bresson on record as liking Feuillade? If the birth date of 1911 is
accurate, Bresson would have been 5 when Judex came out.
Mike Grost
17436
From: Kristian Andersen
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:10am
Subject: Re: Jean Eustache films translated to English
Any idea where I can get that magazine? I’m living in London, UK. Thanks in
advance.
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:10:34 -0000
From: "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
Subject: Re: Jean Eustache films translated to English
Two of the documentaries are available in a DVD included with Bernard
Eisenschitz's excellent bi-annual magayine CINEMA, but I'm afraid
they DO need subtitles for people like me who aren't fluent. LE
COCHON doesn't need subtitles, but this is the only example I'm aware
of.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17437
From: George Robinson
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:24am
Subject: Positif back on NYC newsstands
Can't remember if I posted this before, but I bought an issue of Positif in
a magazine store in Manhattan a few weeks ago. First time I've seen it on an
NYC newsstand in a couple of years. It was the September issue with the
Murnau dossier.
By the way, their black-and-white photo reproductions are remarkably sharp.
Better, I think, than Cahiers's.
By the way, what can anybody tell me about the French film mag Vertigo? (Not
the British one, which I quite like). Same distributor as Positif (which
means nothing); I didn't recognize any of the by-lines on the website.
g
ON NOVEMBER 2,VOTE LIKE YOUR LIFE DEPENDED ON IT.
IT DOES.
17438
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:22am
Subject: Re: Film Comment Fall 1966: Don Skoller
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
Donald Skoller is described as an Associate Professor at City College
of New York.
> And working on 2 books called "Experiencing Dreyer" and "Cinematic
> Consciousness".
> After around 1975, publishers stopped offering the flood of film
books that
> briefly appeared in the previous decade. Who knows what we lost?
There was no
> Internet back then as an alternative either.
Well said. And to return to a favorite gripe, the market was flooded
beginning in the late 70s with books by people with degrees in Film
Studies, many of whom were importing poorly digested French theory
(theory I love in its original form, for those who haven't heard me
say it before), and this squeezed out home-grown work that might have
been quite good, like Skoller's. A distinguished film historian and
critic friend went to the then-head of a major university press ten
years ago with a proposal to publish a book many of us now own and
are thrilled to refer to; he was told that the press was only
interested in Feminism, Queer Theory and Film Noir -- topics that
interest me, too, but not to the exclusion of all else.
Just flipping thru the tables of content for then-Film Comment, Take
One, Cineaste, Jumpcut, Sight and Sound, Wide Angle, Movie, Cinema
and other 60s and 70s film magazines I've inherited from Lurking
Marvin, "what we lost" is beginning to asssume concrete shape for me
in a way it hadn't before. I'm seeing a lot of roads not taken, at a
time when public discourse on film in English was operating at a much
higher level than it is now. That is why I take such an interest in
a_film_by -- I miss the context for exciting, intriguing thought on
film that was killed in the womb by the shifts that left us with such
a shrunken context for practicing it.
17439
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:37am
Subject: Re: Positif back on NYC newsstands
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "George Robinson"
wrote:
> Can't remember if I posted this before, but I bought an issue of
Positif in
> a magazine store in Manhattan a few weeks ago.
We have always had it in kiosks here. I just saw the issue you refer
to at Book Soup. Besides Murnau, it has a lot about Agnes
Janoui.......
> By the way, what can anybody tell me about the French film mag
Vertigo?
I've published in it once, when de Baecque was associated with it --
a piece on 2001 -- but I don't know the editors. It is quoted some by
Deleuze; Cinematographe is quoted a lot more. It's an interesting
publication that swims around in the fields of theory and of film
criticism past and present (not history), always via "theme" issues:
He and She, The Bordello, Power, etc. I combed thru it for Bunuel
articles recently -- not much that was good, but I saw something in
each issue that I'd like to read if time permitted. There are several
magazines like this in France. I wish we had our own Vertigo,
Cinematographe, Lettre du cinema, Trafic etc. Online pubs fill the
gap here.
Vertigo also has good b&w photos. George mentioned Positif's b&w -- I
regret, and have inveighed loudly against, the CdC's switch to color.
But what I really miss is the b&w iconography of the issues Daney,
and before him Narboni/Comolli, and before them Rohmer/Rivette
edited, where almost every photo seemed to embody an idea -- not
necessarily one you could nail down. I don't think Positif is doing
that any more than CdC is today. It's a big part of my memories of
the old Cahiers, and today I couldn't name one still that sticks in
my mind. This is an area in which Vertigo shines.
17440
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:56am
Subject: Re: Dante's "Explorers"
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
> >Diller, who was a sadistic studio head>
>
> I've been told that Blake Edwards based Malcolm McDowell's
> (literally) sadistic studio head in "Sunset" specifically on Barry
> Diller.
According to Spy Magazine, the Simpsons' Mr. Burns was based on Barry
Diller. Diller used to be the CEO of Fox. But a supervising director
says only that Mr. Burns' appearance was based on Barry Diller,
crossed with a praying mantis:
http://www.snpp.com/other/articles/flash.html
Paul
17441
From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 0:07pm
Subject: Re: Dante's "Explorers"
I seem to recall that Jack Clayton through a chair through Barry
Diller's plate glass office window after a row...
There's a new DVD of THE 'BURBS out here that advertises previously
unseen footage. Is this the original ending, dropped after negative
preview tests?
17442
From: Kevin Lee
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:33pm
Subject: Satire discussion cont'd: Team America reconsidered
I've been silently enjoying the satire discussion over the past few
days, in regards Coen, Kubrick et al.
This week's Village Voice has a piece by Michael Atkinson that
claims "Team America: World Police" is more or less the most
misunderstood satire of the year. (Haven't seen it but this article
makes me want to)
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0443/atkinson.php
17443
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:02pm
Subject: Meeting Mr. Mapother
http://www.bonusround.com/book4-2/book4-2part8.html
An anti-climax if there ever was one.
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17444
From: programming
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:28pm
Subject: Re: Re: Film Comment Fall 1966: Don Skoller
On 10/26/04 9:55 PM, "Paul Gallagher" wrote:
> I wonder whether Donald Skoller is related to Jeffrey Skoller, several
> of whose writings on film are available online:
> http://www.findarticles.com/p/search?tb=art&qt=%22Jeffrey+Skoller%22
>
Father and son, I believe. J. Skoller teaches at the School of the Art
Institute of Chicago and is soon to have a book published. He¹s also a
filmmaker.
Patrick Friel
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17445
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:31pm
Subject: Re: Dante's "Explorers"
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "cairnsdavid1967"
wrote:
>
> I seem to recall that Jack Clayton through a chair through Barry
> Diller's plate glass office window after a row...
>
> There's a new DVD of THE 'BURBS out here that advertises previously
> unseen footage. Is this the original ending, dropped after negative
> preview tests?
Presumably. I don't know anything about the DVD, but based on seeing
the preview cut a long time ago (and refereshing my memory by looking
at the interview), the original ending isn't all that different, but
there will be a few surprises if that's what it is. SPOILER In the
preview ending there's more of a chase, and at the end Hanks
confesses to his wife that he's been staying home because he lost his
job. There was more to the dream sequence, including the wife saying
to him: "Is there something you're not telling me?" Kevin McCarthy
played his boss.
The temp score was Herrmann's music for Fahrenehit 451 -- more
melancholy, not as frenetic as Goldsmith's final score -- but I'm
sure that won't be on the extras. There was a bit more of Vertigo in
the dream, too. The inspiration for the script, obviously, is Rear
Window. From the interview: "The script, when I first saw it, was
called BAY WINDOW. They [Howard and Grazer] thought it was like
Hitchcock; I didn't...To me REAR WINDOW is a structural masterpiece.
The way it has been planned graphically is brilliant. This movie had
no chance to be that. I was playing the tune, but I was playing it
with one finger."
He also shot an ending where the garbage men played by Robert Picardo
and Dick Miller are in the trunk. Joe would have liked it to be dead
cheerleaders -- he thinks the skulls are in poor taste, because of
the holocaust, but that's what the producers wanted.
17446
From: thebradstevens
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:50pm
Subject: Re: Dante's "Explorers"
"There's a new DVD of THE 'BURBS out here that advertises previously
unseen footage. Is this the original ending, dropped after negative
preview tests?"
Depends what you mean by 'here'. If you're referring to the new UK
DVD, then this simply restores footage previously cut from the video
release by the BBFC: brief clips from THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE II
and THE EXORCIST (footage that was present whenever the film played
on UK television).
17447
From:
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:22pm
Subject: Re: Meeting Mr. Mapother
Somehow, thought this would be like the big trap in "Testament of Dr. Mabuse":
the underground room, the phonograph, no exit, the room filling with water...
Glad it was an anti-climax instead!
Mike Grost
17448
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:33pm
Subject: Re: The death of Maria Malibran, Werner Schroeter
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- Maxime Renaudin wrote:
>
> >
> > Is that anything but camp?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Very SERIOUS camp -- of which Scroeter is a master.
> See also his "Salome."
>
>
> Very HIGH camp. How high the camp? They don't make it higher.
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
17449
From: Aaron Graham
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:19pm
Subject: Re: Dante's "Explorers"
> Presumably. I don't know anything about the DVD, but based on
seeing
> the preview cut a long time ago (and refereshing my memory by
looking
> at the interview), the original ending isn't all that different,
but
> there will be a few surprises if that's what it is. SPOILER In the
> preview ending there's more of a chase, and at the end Hanks
> confesses to his wife that he's been staying home because he lost
his
> job.
For those interested, what Bill describes here is exactly what's on
the Region 1 dvd of THE 'BURBS. It's not even described on the box,
and only accessed as a hidden feature. It's not much different at
all.
I wish they had of put Kevin McCarthy's scene(s) on the disc though!
-Aaron
17450
From: Adrian Martin
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:34pm
Subject: re: French magazine iconography
Re VERTIGO magazine: just to add to Bill's good description of it, their
choice of themes is often quite inspired: my favourite was on 'The Back' -
about moments in films where actors are shot from the back, a much more
amazing and revealing topic than one might at first think!!!! VERTIGO has
the virtue of having some writers not so well known or published in other
more 'fashionable' places - such as Francois Thomas (associated with
POSITIF) and Fabien Boully (who is writing on Moullet for a future issue of
ROUGE). Overall, the magazine kind of mixes academic scholarship with belles
lettres, and does it pretty well.
re: photo iconography. I must say, Bill, that there ARE a few newer film
magazines in France today doing exactly what you say in terms of 'images
that express ideas'. The best, in my opinion, would be BALTHAZAR and
SIMULACRES, as well as all the books associated with the latter, such as on
Carpenter and De Palma (lush productions as well as incisive and erudite
texts). The BALTHAZAR website gives some sense of its pictorial style (but
only a few on-line articles). On a much more materially modest level, even
CINERGON does some good things with frame enlargements, etc. That sort of
'visual-conceptual thinking' is alive and well among the new generation of
'figural' analysts in France.
Adrian
17451
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:34pm
Subject: Re: Re: Meeting Mr. Mapother
It was very strange. I was surprised to have been
invited at all what with the threatened lawsuit. Must
be an oversight on the part of somebody or other at
Dreamworks. Anyway he made no mention of Scientology
or Nicole.
--- MG4273@a... wrote:
> Somehow, thought this would be like the big trap in
> "Testament of Dr. Mabuse":
> the underground room, the phonograph, no exit, the
> room filling with water...
> Glad it was an anti-climax instead!
>
> Mike Grost
>
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
17452
From: Jonathan Rosenbaum
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:42pm
Subject: Re: Jean Eustache films translated to English
Something like www.leoscheer.fr--I can't confirm this, but I believe
that's the name of the magazine's publisher (Leo Scheer, I think).
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Kristian Andersen"
wrote:
> Any idea where I can get that magazine? I'm living in London, UK.
Thanks in
> advance.
>
>
>
>
>
> Message: 6
>
> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:10:34 -0000
>
> From: "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
>
> Subject: Re: Jean Eustache films translated to English
>
>
>
>
>
> Two of the documentaries are available in a DVD included with
Bernard
>
> Eisenschitz's excellent bi-annual magayine CINEMA, but I'm afraid
>
> they DO need subtitles for people like me who aren't fluent. LE
>
> COCHON doesn't need subtitles, but this is the only example I'm
aware
>
> of.
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.781 / Virus Database: 527 - Release Date: 21/10/2004
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17453
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:17pm
Subject: Re: Meeting Mr. Mapother
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> It was very strange. I was surprised to have been
> invited at all what with the threatened lawsuit. Must
> be an oversight on the part of somebody or other at
> Dreamworks. Anyway he made no mention of Scientology
> or Nicole.
>
>>
You didn't even get a chance to ask him: "Have you read my
book?"? Too bad...
So, David, you have your own chauffeur. And you complained that
you are impoverished!
Reminds me of that wonderful line (but from what movie?): "We're
poor but we live like the rich; it's cheaper."
JPC
17454
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:30pm
Subject: Re: Jean Eustache films translated to English
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
wrote:
>
> Something like www.leoscheer.fr--I can't confirm this, but I
believe
> that's the name of the magazine's publisher (Leo Scheer, I think).
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Kristian Andersen"
> wrote:
> > Any idea where I can get that magazine? I'm living in London,
UK.
> Thanks in
> > advance.
The mag's address is 14/16 rue de Verneuil, 75007 PARIS
Tel: 01 44 55 01 90 Fax: 01 44 55 01 91
e-mail: revuecinema@l...
In the Autumn 2004 issue they have a DVD of Ford's "Bucking
Broadway" and a couple of articles on Ford. Also lots of color
stills.
JPC
They do have a web site: www.leoscheer.com
17455
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:36pm
Subject: Re: Re: Meeting Mr. Mapother
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> So, David, you have your own chauffeur. And you
> complained that
> you are impoverished!
> Reminds me of that wonderful line (but from what
> movie?): "We're
> poor but we live like the rich; it's cheaper."
>
Hey -- I live in Hollywood.
Besides, Joe Dante doesn't drive either.
__________________________________
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17456
From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:01pm
Subject: Elle a passe tant d'heures sous les sunlights
CdC's "Deux films de" series keeps popping up
with some pleasant surprises. Does anyone know
anything about "Elle a passé..." (which is paired
with "Le Vent de la nuit", which I have seen)?
Is it another Nico story?
Jonathan Takagi
ps the Leo Scheer website is:
www.leoscheer.com
though the link to the Cinéma page is:
http://www.leoscheer.com/revue.php3?id_article=231
You can only print a subscription card there, if you want
to buy it online, you have to go through amazon.fr, fnac
or an equivalent.
They are also starting their own DVD series, which has
started with some interesting films by Jean-Paul Civeyrac,
Serge Bozon and Jean-Claude Fitoussi. I'm curious to see
which Guiradie film they release.
17457
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:22pm
Subject: Re: Elle a passe tant d'heures sous les sunlights
Apparently it is another Nico story
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089081/
This time with Anne Wiazemski (of all people) playing
"Christa"
(Nico's real name was Christa Pafgen)
--- Jonathan Takagi wrote:
> CdC's "Deux films de" series keeps popping up
> with some pleasant surprises. Does anyone know
> anything about "Elle a passé..." (which is paired
> with "Le Vent de la nuit", which I have seen)?
> Is it another Nico story?
>
> Jonathan Takagi
>
> ps the Leo Scheer website is:
>
> www.leoscheer.com
>
> though the link to the Cinéma page is:
> http://www.leoscheer.com/revue.php3?id_article=231
>
> You can only print a subscription card there, if you
> want
> to buy it online, you have to go through amazon.fr,
> fnac
> or an equivalent.
>
> They are also starting their own DVD series, which
> has
> started with some interesting films by Jean-Paul
> Civeyrac,
> Serge Bozon and Jean-Claude Fitoussi. I'm curious
> to see
> which Guiradie film they release.
>
>
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
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17458
From: Travis Miles
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:28pm
Subject: Re: Elle a passe tant d'heures sous les sunlights
Anyone know if these will be subtitled like the last two?
T
On 10/27/04 5:22 PM, "David Ehrenstein" wrote:
>
> Apparently it is another Nico story
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089081/
>
> This time with Anne Wiazemski (of all people) playing
> "Christa"
>
> (Nico's real name was Christa Pafgen)
>
> --- Jonathan Takagi wrote:
>
>> CdC's "Deux films de" series keeps popping up
>> with some pleasant surprises. Does anyone know
>> anything about "Elle a pass?..." (which is paired
>> with "Le Vent de la nuit", which I have seen)?
>> Is it another Nico story?
>>
>> Jonathan Takagi
>>
>> ps the Leo Scheer website is:
>>
>> www.leoscheer.com
>>
>> though the link to the Cin?ma page is:
>> http://www.leoscheer.com/revue.php3?id_article=231
>>
>> You can only print a subscription card there, if you
>> want
>> to buy it online, you have to go through amazon.fr,
>> fnac
>> or an equivalent.
>>
>> They are also starting their own DVD series, which
>> has
>> started with some interesting films by Jean-Paul
>> Civeyrac,
>> Serge Bozon and Jean-Claude Fitoussi. I'm curious
>> to see
>> which Guiradie film they release.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
17459
From:
Date: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:59pm
Subject: New York Subway - Happy 100th Birthday!
The news says that today is the anniversary of the New York Subway. (And it's
great to see something happy on the news, for a change!)
The Treasures from American Film Archives (vol I) has a great short
documentary:
Interior New York Subway, 14th Street to 42nd Street (G.W. Bitzer, 1905)
Dazzlingly photographed short film, showing a ride on the newly completed
subway. A highly unusual optical experience, often more like a film abstraction
than a representational movie.
Bitzer would go on to be D. W. Griffith's cameraman.
Mike Grost
17460
From: Matt Teichman
Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:59am
Subject: Re: New York Subway - Happy 100th Birthday!
Mike Grost wrote:
>The Treasures from American Film Archives (vol I) has a great short
>documentary:
>Interior New York Subway, 14th Street to 42nd Street (G.W. Bitzer, 1905)
>
>
This is a lovely piece--it has a peculiar sort of vertiginal 3D effect,
the kind of thing that some of Ken Jacobs' recent found-footage work
seems to be obsessed with. The camera movements (which are just the
movements of the train) are simple and straightforward, yet somehow
deeply metaphysically unsettling. A monument to the incomprehensible
aesthetic of the city.
-Matt
17461
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:30am
Subject: Re: Satire discussion cont'd: Team America reconsidered
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Lee" wrote:
>
> This week's Village Voice has a piece by Michael Atkinson that
> claims "Team America: World Police" is more or less the most
> misunderstood satire of the year. (Haven't seen it but this article
> makes me want to)
>
> http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0443/atkinson.php
I noticed this comment from Michael Musto, who also mentions an
a_film_by celebrity.
"I just caught up with Team America: World Police, and though the
puppety visuals were gorgeous and there were hilarious set pieces, I
was amazed that the film terrorized the audience with so many
stretches of unfunny boredom. I was also surprised that the wacko
creators have such contempt for lefty actors, the same thesps who'd
probably defend South Park against the conservative onslaught. As for
the film's conceit of having those actors belong to the Film Actors
Guild (i.e., FAG), I'd mind the reference less if one of those wackos
came out already!
"Speaking of Which: According to The New York Times, MARC CHERRY, the
writer of the hit TV series Desperate Housewives, is a "bachelor."
Author DAVID EHRENSTEIN was horrified to read that musty old signifier
in a Cherry profile by BERNARD WEINRAUB, having interviewed Cherry as
an openly gay man. Blogs Ehrenstein, 'Why has the Times elected to
regard him the way the Republican Party does MARY CHENEY?'"
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0443/musto.php
17462
From: Damien Bona
Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:42am
Subject: Re: New York Subway - Happy 100th Birthday!
My favorite New York subway moment in a movie is in The Seventh
Victim, where Kim Hunter's Mary Gibson watches a trio of drunks enter
the car and eventually realizes that one of them is the corpse of
Irving August.
17463
From: Damien Bona
Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:49am
Subject: Sons of the Desert
For any Laurel & Hardy aficionados, the New York Times had a lovely,
bittersweet piece on one of the Boys' fans:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/27/nyregion/27about.html?oref=login
17464
From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:08am
Subject: Re: Dante's "Explorers"
> For those interested, what Bill describes here is exactly what's on
> the Region 1 dvd of THE 'BURBS. It's not even described on the box,
> and only accessed as a hidden feature. It's not much different at
> all.
Dang! I always hoped the original ending would have been that the
Klopeks were innocent of any wrongdoing. That seemed like it would
fit the film's theme much more.
In REAR WINDOW we're fairly sure of Thorwald's guilt, and what we're
amde to realise is that Jeff's spying on him is indefensible.
Here we're not sure what the family may be up to, and the ending as
it stands is neither worse or less than we imagined. Having them be
innocent would have turned the blame back on their neighbours nicely.
But dead cheerleaders would've been OK too.
17465
From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:12pm
Subject: Re: Distance/Nearness, Coen, Wilder (Was: Coen/McCarey)
An anecdote about CHINATOWN seems to support what's being said.
Supposedly, when discussing costumes, Polanski asked for the drawing
of the nose-slitting hoodlum to be altered until it looked just like
himself. This suggests that Polanski's idea of casting himself only
came about after he'd realised what he wanted the character to look
like.
By contrast, artist and graphic designer Alexander Mackendrick
writes "NEVER cast for physical qualities."
Oh, and P Tonguette, it's nice to be published alongside you in the
new Senses of Cinema!
17466
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:55pm
Subject: Re: Elle a passe tant d'heures sous les sunlights
> They are also starting their own DVD series, which has
> started with some interesting films by Jean-Paul Civeyrac,
> Serge Bozon and Jean-Claude Fitoussi. I'm curious to see
> which Guiradie film they release.
I'm really interested in Civeyrac after seeing his striking TOUTES SES
BELLES PROMESSES at Toronto last year. Does anyone know about his other
features? I believe he had a short film in one of the sections of Cannes
this year. - Dan
17467
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:00pm
Subject: Re: Dante's "Explorers"
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "cairnsdavid1967"
wrote:
>
> > For those interested, what Bill describes here is exactly what's
on
> > the Region 1 dvd of THE 'BURBS. It's not even described on the
box,
> > and only accessed as a hidden feature. It's not much different at
> > all.
>
> Dang! I always hoped the original ending would have been that the
> Klopeks were innocent of any wrongdoing. That seemed like it would
> fit the film's theme much more.
Actually, that may have been the original ending in the script. I
think it was...
17468
From: Jonathan Rosenbaum
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:49am
Subject: Re: Love Streams
I can confirm that this is out on a French DVD, since I bought one
here in Paris two days ago. And according to what's on the box, it's
the "complete" version.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Kehr" wrote:
> Mike Schlesinger, who's one of the people in charge of
the
> library holdings at Sony, tells me that the Cannon films have now
come under
> Sony's ownership, acquired by Sony when they bought the MGM
library. He
> isn't sure yet whether "Love Streams" automatically comes along
with them,
> or if it had a more complicated production deal that would return
the rights
> to someone else. But he's aware that it may be in his hands, and
says he's
> doing his best to run it down. He's a good guy - and probably
belongs on
> this list - so I'm sure we'll get some news about it soon.
>
>
>
> Mike has also acquired rights to the Harold Lloyd films
from
> Lloyd's granddaughter, including a silent version of "Welcome
Danger" that
> Lloyd shelved when he decided to re-do it in sound. Those who've
seen it
> say it's a major film, far better than the talkie version. Film
Forum will
> probably be showing it in February, with a national tour and video
release
> thereafter.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17469
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:57am
Subject: Haskell Wexler Is Looking for a Print of Introduction to the Enemy
Amiens is doing a retro of his work, and he doesn't have a print of
that one or know where to get one -- neither does Fonda.
17470
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:32pm
Subject: Re: Film Comment Fall 1966: Don Skoller
Skoller's dissertation is available for sale here.
http://wwwlib.umi.com/dissertations/cart?add=6903197
PROBLEMS OF TRANSFORMATION IN THE ADAPTATION OF SHAKESPEARE'S
TRAGEDIES FROM PLAY-SCRIPT TO CINEMA
by SKOLLER, DONALD S., PHD
NEW YORK UNIVERSITY, 1968, 612 pages
It doesn't seem to have been published elsewhere, or developed into a
book or article.
Paul
17471
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:54pm
Subject: site for classic and other cinema theaters
A while back, some mentioned their favorite theaters;
here is a site forwarded to me by Scott Marks:
http://www.cinematreasures.org/theater/
Elizabeth
17472
From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:57pm
Subject: Re: Dante's "Explorers"
> > Dang! I always hoped the original ending would have been that the
> > Klopeks were innocent of any wrongdoing. That seemed like it
would
> > fit the film's theme much more.
>
> Actually, that may have been the original ending in the script. I
> think it was...
I can't quite express why that seems such an appropriate way to go.
Maybe because in REAR WINDOW we move from mild diapproval of
Stewart's peeping (though we enjoy it) to wanting him to catch the
bad guy, to realising how he has no right to be doing this (but still
wanting him to catch the bad guy). In THE 'BURBS the characters
behave more badly and with less reason, motivated basically by
xenophobia and idle curiousity, and we never have any strong sense
that the Klopeks are definitely up to no goo so the behaviour can't
be justified - what's needed, ethically, is an ending that shows how
wrong Hanks etc have been, rather than one that makes heroes out of
them. At any rate, since the Klopeks are so mysterious, drama demands
that their secret be either more innocent that suspected or much much
worse than we could have imagined - what we get is just so-so.
Which is a shame as the development of the story has been so great -
I like the track-in on the dog particularly.
17473
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:00pm
Subject: Re: Film Comment Fall 1966: Don Skoller
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
>
> Skoller's dissertation is available for sale here.
> http://wwwlib.umi.com/dissertations/cart?add=6903197
>
> PROBLEMS OF TRANSFORMATION IN THE ADAPTATION OF SHAKESPEARE'S
> TRAGEDIES FROM PLAY-SCRIPT TO CINEMA
> by SKOLLER, DONALD S., PHD
> NEW YORK UNIVERSITY, 1968, 612 pages
>
> It doesn't seem to have been published elsewhere, or developed into
a
> book or article.
>
> Paul
17474
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:16pm
Subject: Re: Film Comment Fall 1966: Don Skoller
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
>
> Skoller's dissertation is available for sale here.
> http://wwwlib.umi.com/dissertations/cart?add=6903197
>
> PROBLEMS OF TRANSFORMATION IN THE ADAPTATION OF SHAKESPEARE'S
> TRAGEDIES FROM PLAY-SCRIPT TO CINEMA
> by SKOLLER, DONALD S., PHD
> NEW YORK UNIVERSITY, 1968, 612 pages
>
> It doesn't seem to have been published elsewhere, or developed into
a
> book or article.
>
> Paul
I'm on it. Another of Lurking Marvin's old Film Comments (March-April
1973) contains a piece by Skoller on Morgan Fisher, The Fisher
Problem: Aspects of Cinematic Consciousness (Part 2). Part 1 (not in
my inheritance) traced the movement from Vertigo to Marienbad to
Wavelength, equating narrative film with "narrowing of consciousness"
("narrowtive cinema") and describing inustrio-coprate society as
a "narrated society" (with a passing allusion to Derrida's Limited
Inc.). So Skoller may have gone the way of Thierry Kunzel in France --
but where? I'm going to give Morgan a call and see if he knows.
Also in that issue: Jameson (before he ceased writing interestingly)
on Leone, Koszarksi on Maurice Toueneur (w. a checklist of where to
find prints), Wood on Mizoguchi, Sarris on Libelei, Durgnat on Bells
Are Ringing, Greenspun on the last Mabuse. Morgan, Alain Jessua and
the interview w. Benton and Newman that captured the cover are all
there is on current film, except for what's in the Paris, London and
LA Journals of the odd trio of Rosenbaum, Roud and Stephen Farber.
A very different Film Comment -- today their marching orders from the
Film Society forbid articles on "old films" (although I've noticed
rare exceptions). As Tim Lucas said when I told him about the
policy: "That's like a library with no old books!" The other thing
that this table of contents shows is how auteurism was flourishing at
that point.
17475
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:24pm
Subject: Re: Dante's "Explorers"
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "cairnsdavid1967"
wrote:
>
> > > Dang! I always hoped the original ending would have been that
the
> > > Klopeks were innocent of any wrongdoing. That seemed like it
> would
> > > fit the film's theme much more.
> >
> > Actually, that may have been the original ending in the script. I
> > think it was...
>
> I can't quite express why that seems such an appropriate way to go.
> Maybe because in REAR WINDOW we move from mild diapproval of
> Stewart's peeping (though we enjoy it) to wanting him to catch the
> bad guy, to realising how he has no right to be doing this (but
still
> wanting him to catch the bad guy). In THE 'BURBS the characters
> behave more badly and with less reason, motivated basically by
> xenophobia and idle curiousity, and we never have any strong sense
> that the Klopeks are definitely up to no goo so the behaviour can't
> be justified - what's needed, ethically, is an ending that shows
how
> wrong Hanks etc have been, rather than one that makes heroes out of
> them. At any rate, since the Klopeks are so mysterious, drama
demands
> that their secret be either more innocent that suspected or much
much
> worse than we could have imagined - what we get is just so-so.
>
> Which is a shame as the development of the story has been so great -
> I like the track-in on the dog particularly.
I kind of like it the way it is, because it's unexpected. But the
dead cheerleaders would have been infinitely better.
Just watched Experiment in Terror for a piece on San Francisco films.
Strange, strange film. For one thing, you're almost rooting for Ross
Martin, the extortionist, because he is one guy against an army of
FBI men, and you have to admire his ingenuity and daring in pulling
things off. Picking up on an earlier observation: Remick lives in the
Twin Peaks part of SF (which I now know refers to actual mountains
nearby), Martin disguises himself as an old lady to get at her in the
lady's room of the Chinese restaurant (a la a particular killer in
Twin Peaks Season Two) and Martin's character's name is Red Lynch.
Edwards ends on him dead on the pitcher's mound and then gives him a
solo end credit during the helicopter pullback: "Red Lynch was played
by Ross Martin."
17476
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:59pm
Subject: Experiment in Terror (was Dante's "Explorers")
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
"Just watched Experiment in Terror for a piece on San Francisco
films. Strange, strange film. For one thing, you're almost rooting
for Ross Martin, the extortionist, because he is one guy against an
army of FBI men, and you have to admire his ingenuity and daring in
pulling things off. Picking up on an earlier observation: Remick
lives in the Twin Peaks part of SF (which I now know refers to actual
mountains nearby), Martin disguises himself as an old lady to get at
her in the lady's room of the Chinese restaurant (a la a particular
killer in Twin Peaks Season Two) and Martin's character's name is Red
Lynch. Edwards ends on him dead on the pitcher's mound and then gives
him a solo end credit during the helicopter pullback: 'Red Lynch was
played by Ross Martin.'"
The FBI is like an implacable machine, and Red Lynch does take care
of his girl friend's son (and has an interracial relationship which
is either good or bad depending on one's bias) which makes him more
sympathetic than the FBI but less sympathetic than Lee Remick and
Stefanie Powers. Remick and Powers are caught between the sanctioned
and benign sociopathy of the FBI and the lone malignant sociopathy of
the extortionist; it's almost as if Edwards is hinting that under
different circumstances their respect roles could be reversed.
Also, I recall that Martin wears a hood and sun glasses in a few
shots which gives him the look of the oft-printed Uni Bomber FBI
drawing. The movie came first, so I wonder if someone appropriated
that look.
Richard
17477
From: Kevin Lee
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:45pm
Subject: Re: Fipresci site alert
this has been fun to read.
Glad to hear Gabe so enthusiastic about Royston Tan's 15:
http://www.fipresci.org/criticism/archive/archive_2004/vienna/maria_gk
linger.htm
re: MARIA (NOT SO) FULL OF GRACE. Gabe, what do you think of VERA
DRAKE?
Jean-Marie Straub sounds like an off-Broadway show waiting to happen:
http://www.fipresci.org/criticism/archive/archive_2004/vienna/straub_h
uillet.htm
Tarnation:
http://www.fipresci.org/criticism/archive/archive_2004/vienna/tarnatio
n_gleary.htm
I don't even know where to begin with this movie -- my problems with
it seem to conflate the more I think about it (most recently I
learned, from someone who interviewed Caouette, that the BLUE VELVET
sequences were actually staged reenactments -- I need to verify this
before I start spreading it around) but the problems have less to do
with the film itself than the fictional properties of documentary
narratives. But in the end I consider it a film every bit as
formidable as it is troubling and troublesome.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Adrian Martin wrote:
> Not sure if this has been mentioned here yet, but at present three
prolific
> A FILM BY members - Andy, Charles, and Gabe - are writing their
youthful
> hearts out daily from the Viennale on the FIPRESCI site
(www.fipresci.org).
>
> The description of the Straub-Huillet panel on Ford is particularly
lively.
>
> Other contributors to the 'Criticism' pages of the FIPRESCI site
include
> more A FILM BY-ers: Jonathan, Chris, myself.
>
> Get reading, everyone!
>
> Adrian
17478
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:01pm
Subject: Re: Experiment in Terror (was Dante's "Explorers")
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Modiano"
wrote:
Remick and Powers are caught between the sanctioned
> and benign sociopathy of the FBI and the lone malignant sociopathy
of
> the extortionist; it's almost as if Edwards is hinting that under
> different circumstances their respect roles could be reversed.
>
> Also, I recall that Martin wears a hood and sun glasses in a few
> shots which gives him the look of the oft-printed Uni Bomber FBI
> drawing. The movie came first, so I wonder if someone appropriated
> that look.
>
> Richard
Well, it sure influenced David Lynch! Jean Douchet's reading of 1000
Eye of Dr. Mabuse treated him as the Lang hero (the individual
struggling against fate), and you could definitely do that with Red
Lynch, awful though he is to Remick and Powers. (He does abstain from
raping Powers, by the way...a small point in his favor.)
Looked at as a San Francisco film, this very strange film is part of
a tradition that begins with Dmytryk's The Sniper (who's crazy) and
ends with the Scorpio Killer in Dirty Harry, who is an extortionist
like Red Lynch, but has the bureaucrats on his side, and earns no
sympathy from us. Nonetheless, the deep structure of Dirty Harry, as
exposed in Charley Varrick, has Siegel positioning himself about
where you say Remick is -- between two implacable forces, the psycho
kid (andy Robinson again) and the mob-cop played by Joe Don Baker.
Unless you want to read Varrick as an ass-covering amendment to
Harry. Anyway, they're my two favorite films by one of my all-time
favorite filmmakers.
The other thing that is really strange is how slow EIT is. The time
spent drinking-in SF locations -- the characters, except for Lynch,
are almost like tourists -- makes it interminable...and fascinating.
17479
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:31pm
Subject: Re: Fipresci site alert
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Lee" wrote:
> Jean-Marie Straub sounds like an off-Broadway show waiting to happen:
>
http://www.fipresci.org/criticism/archive/archive_2004/vienna/straub_huillet.htm
I'm curious why the audience gasped when "Tag Gallagher spoke of
Straub/Huillet's renewed roots in Western tradition." Also, did Straub
give any reasons for calling Fassbinder's films fascist? Is he just
using "fascist" as an empty pejorative?
Paul
17480
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 0:00am
Subject: Re: Re: Fipresci site alert
Straub has declared Fassbinder to be "fascist" many
times before. I suspect that "Mother Kuster's Trip to
Heaven" was a deliberate provocation by Fassbinder to
settle old scores with these former collaborators. In
it Karlheinz Boem and Margit Cartensen play a very
chic "Communist" couple clearly modelled on the
Straubs.
As for "Querelle" requiring Fassbinder to "think,"
that's pretty amusing because what the film thinks
about is sex -- a subject that the Straubs never deal
with.
--- Paul Gallagher wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Lee"
> wrote:
> > Jean-Marie Straub sounds like an off-Broadway show
> waiting to happen:
> >
>
http://www.fipresci.org/criticism/archive/archive_2004/vienna/straub_huillet.htm
>
>
> I'm curious why the audience gasped when "Tag
> Gallagher spoke of
> Straub/Huillet's renewed roots in Western
> tradition." Also, did Straub
> give any reasons for calling Fassbinder's films
> fascist? Is he just
> using "fascist" as an empty pejorative?
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
17481
From:
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:35pm
Subject: TARNATION (WAS: Fipresci site alert)
In a message dated 10/29/04 4:48:49 PM, alsolikelife@y... writes:
> I don't even know where to begin with this movie -- my problems with
> it seem to conflate the more I think about it (most recently I
> learned, from someone who interviewed Caouette, that the BLUE VELVET
> sequences were actually staged reenactments -- I need to verify this
> before I start spreading it around) but the problems have less to do
> with the film itself than the fictional properties of documentary
> narratives.
>
What will it tell you if you do indeed find out that the footage was a
reenactment?
Kevin John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17482
From:
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:50pm
Subject: New York Subway (And RAW MEAT)
In a message dated 10/27/04 7:02:52 PM, MG4273@a... writes:
> Interior New York Subway, 14th Street to 42nd Street (G.W. Bitzer, 1905)
>
I love this film but really only because I romanticized the subway during my
first trip to NYC. Soooo much more preferable than the herky-jerk stop-start
of the bus. Plus I had been riding it for three or four days before I even
wondered how the subway got from Brooklyn to Manhattan (under the water! gulp!).
Plus I actually gave directions to someone after being there less than a week
("yes, indeed, this subway will take you to Wall St.").
Let me second Damien on THE SEVENTH VICTIM as containing the best NY subway
moment. Terrifying!!!
Finally saw RAW MEAT. SPOILERS. Not about NYC subways. Exceedingly strange
film. It strung me along good. The scenes with the cannibal dwelling in the
subway's intenstines were pretty harrowing. Looooooong takes, camera endlessly
investigating carnage but not answering many questions. And then the aboveground
scenes - very tongue in cheek. For instance, Christopher Lee's odd, odd cameo
encourages a jokey shot-reverse shot structure that emphasizes a
confrontational frontality. So the film oscillates between these two poles and
then....nothing. We learn why the cannibal is down there and that he may still be alive
at the end of the film. I missed the point.
Kevin John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17483
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:13am
Subject: Re: Fipresci site alert
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> Straub has declared Fassbinder to be "fascist" many
> times before. I suspect that "Mother Kuster's Trip to
> Heaven" was a deliberate provocation by Fassbinder to
> settle old scores with these former collaborators. In
> it Karlheinz Boem and Margit Cartensen play a very
> chic "Communist" couple clearly modelled on the
> Straubs.
>
> As for "Querelle" requiring Fassbinder to "think,"
> that's pretty amusing because what the film thinks
> about is sex -- a subject that the Straubs never deal
> with.
>
Except in the Tiresias section of "From Clouds..." If he says "las
cosas del SESSO" once he says it twenty times. Obviously a surrogate
for Fassbinder.
17484
From: Noel Vera
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:30am
Subject: Bride of Frankenstein
Just thought I'd toss this in, as a kind of Halloween special:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/noelmoviereviews/message/468
17485
From: Andy Rector
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:29am
Subject: Re: Fipresci site alert
> I don't even know where to begin with this movie -- my problems
with
> it seem to conflate the more I think about it (most recently I
> learned, from someone who interviewed Caouette, that the BLUE
VELVET
> sequences were actually staged reenactments -- I need to verify
this
> before I start spreading it around) but the problems have less to
do
> with the film itself than the fictional properties of documentary
> narratives.
The movie's uninspiring intertitles identify the footage itself as a
stage production of Blue Velvet.
Yours,
andy
17486
From: Andy Rector
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:44am
Subject: Re: Fipresci site alert
>
> I'm curious why the audience gasped when "Tag Gallagher spoke of
> Straub/Huillet's renewed roots in Western tradition." Also, did
Straub
> give any reasons for calling Fassbinder's films fascist? Is he just
> using "fascist" as an empty pejorative?
>
> Paul
Well, Tag left a pause for reaction and the reaction was maybe not
precisely a gasp but a mutter amongst people who may not of been
there to laud western civilization.
Someone asked Jean-Marie to be more "concrete" (a word
Straub/Huillet have an affinity and right to use) about Fassibinder
being a fascist. Straub mumbled a bit, something I don't entirely
remember but something about his "fantasies" and his lack
of "figures".
Yes JM has called out Fassbinder as a fascist before, notably in the
Jump Cut article interview I mention in my quickly run off piece.
Something I wanted to include was that in the Jump Cut interview of
30 years ago JM said the same thing but Huillet interjects and says,
"But one can't use the term "fascist" loosely. It's a precise term,
with a certain historical meaning."
Then Straub continues:
"Yes, you're right. It's wrong to say Fassbinder is a fascist
exactly. It's better to say simply that he's very, oh, unpolitical.
Or better, he is very irresponsible. We have to return to
Schoenberg's vocabulary in a way, when he talks about working with
certain people who are responsible, and the impossibility of working
with people who lack that responsibility. Fassbinder is
irresponsible. And at this point of time in Germany, when anti-
communism is flourishing, he is completely irresponsible. But his
irresponsibility was just as great when he talked the way he did in
BITTER TEARS OF PETRA V0N KANT and THE MERCHANT OF FOUR SEASONS, as
in KATZELMACHER, and THE AMERICAN SOLDIER."
Earlier Huillet says:
"In the MERCHANT OF FOUR SEASONS, the critics who see the film are
not fruit handlers, they are not merchants of four seasons. "
( http://www.ejumpcut.org/archive/onlinessays/jc12-
13folder/moses.int.html )
At the Viennale discussion Huillet didn't come to Straub's rescue
even amist the audiences crying.
Yours,
andy
17487
From: Andy Rector
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:51am
Subject: Re: Fipresci site alert
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> Straub has declared Fassbinder to be "fascist" many
> times before. I suspect that "Mother Kuster's Trip to
> Heaven" was a deliberate provocation by Fassbinder to
> settle old scores with these former collaborators. In
> it Karlheinz Boem and Margit Cartensen play a very
> chic "Communist" couple clearly modelled on the
> Straubs.
>
S/H have never been chic
(especially at Vienna),
you can see this in their films (in comparison with Fassbinder or
anyone else)
17488
From: peckinpah20012000
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:22am
Subject: Re: Film Comment Fall 1966: Don Skoller
> >
> > Paul
>
> > Also in that issue: Jameson (before he ceased writing
interestingly)
> on Leone, Koszarksi on Maurice Toueneur (w. a checklist of where
to
> find prints), Wood on Mizoguchi, Sarris on Libelei, Durgnat on
Bells
> Are Ringing, Greenspun on the last Mabuse. Morgan, Alain Jessua
and
> the interview w. Benton and Newman that captured the cover are
all
> there is on current film, except for what's in the Paris, London
and
> LA Journals of the odd trio of Rosenbaum, Roud and Stephen Farber.
>
> A very different Film Comment -- today their marching orders from
the
> Film Society forbid articles on "old films" (although I've noticed
> rare exceptions). As Tim Lucas said when I told him about the
> policy: "That's like a library with no old books!" The other thing
> that this table of contents shows is how auteurism was flourishing
at
> that point.
I believe another mid-70s issues contained a great feature of
yakuza-eiga gangster movies with the great Takaura Ken on the cover.
It also featured an extract from Paul Scharder's screenplay from THE
YAKUZA which Sidney Pollack directed after Robert Mitchum nixed
Robert Aldrich as director following the failure of EMPEROR OF THE
NORTH.
Had that film succeeded Aldrich would have got the property, fired
Mitchum (who caused problems during THE ANGRY HILLS) and hired Lee
Marvin instead. With TK probably delivering another great
performance like Major Yamaguchi in TOO LATE THE HERO (1969), the
film would have been much better. Aldrich would never have allowed
the type of condescending mugging that Mitchum gave prior to his
finger-cutting in the climax of the film that ruins the sincerity of
the ritual in Schrader's original screenplay.
As to those old FILM COMMENTs, "We have seen the Chimes at
Midnight"...or "You should have been with us when we stormed the
Winter Palace", as Richard Burton's Trotsky says in Losey's film.
Tony Williams
17489
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:32am
Subject: Re: Fipresci site alert
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> Straub has declared Fassbinder to be "fascist" many
> times before. I suspect that "Mother Kuster's Trip to
> Heaven" was a deliberate provocation by Fassbinder to
> settle old scores with these former collaborators. In
> it Karlheinz Boem and Margit Cartensen play a very
> chic "Communist" couple clearly modeled on the
> Straubs.
I haven't seen "Mother Küsters," and it's been about twenty years
(!)
since I've seen Fassbinder's films. Based on the description of
"Mother Küsters": there's more of a point in attacking Straub and
Huillet; it seems gratuitous to attack the German Communist Party,
since it wasn't at all a significant political force in the Federal
Republic.
Barton Byg's book describes some of Fassbinder's comments on Straub
and Huillet, and Straub's comments on Fassbinder, but they're
relatively mild.
"Q: Has Straub influenced you?
Fassbinder: Straub has been more like an important figure for me...
This experience I had with Straub, who approached his work and the
other people with such an air of comic solemnity, fascinated me. He
would let us play a scene and then would say to us, 'How did they feel
at this point?' This was really quite right in this case, because we
ourselves had to develop an attitude about what we were doing, so that
when we were acting, we developed the technique of looking at
ourselves, and the result was that there was a distance between the
role and the actor, instead of total identity. The films he's made
that I think are very beautiful are the early ones, Machorka-Muff and
Not Reconciled , up to and including Chronicle of Anna Magdalena Bach,
though Othon and other films since then have proved to me that what
is most important to him is not what interests me in his work."
Byg writes:
"...the evocations of American cinema in Fassbinder and Wenders also
block the way for Straub/Huillet films, they assert, since these
products function as a substitute for a confrontation with the real
thing. The complacency that results—they term it ignorance and
arrogance—allows people to consume a 'nostalgia for the American
cinema, when the audience has seen nothing of Chaplin, Griffith, or
John Ford.' By projecting their dreams of the cinema into their films,
Wenders and Fassbinder collaborate in the narrowing of audience demand
and distribution that has gradually excluded even Godard from general
distribution. There is no resistance or solidarity to be found on the
basis of such films that accept the terms of Hollywood marketing. For,
as Huillet has put it, 'Cinephilia is also a lack of ambition.'"
Some of these are familiar arguments; "post-modernism" is often the
target of similar arguments.
While I'm doing a lot of quoting, I'll include a comment by J.
Rosenbaum that provoked some discussion on
rec.arts.movies.international back in 2002. (One might also quibble
with equating the French New Wave with "joie de vivre and jazzy
invention.")
"When the New German Cinema started overtaking the French New Wave as
a fashionable movement 30 years ago I felt alienated, as if someone
had declared a major source of my moviegoing pleasure out-of-bounds.
Taking the place of joie de vivre and jazzy invention were cynical
disillusionment and cookie-cutter formal patterning -- a new kind of
style and content that its champions called subversive and its
detractors (including me) called defeatist. Whether the mood was
sarcastic (Rainer Werner Fassbinder), flamboyant (Werner Herzog),
lyrical (Wim Wenders), or hieratic (Werner Schroeter), the overall
message seemed to be that people and social conditions were doomed to
remain mired in ruts and that hope was for suckers. The 70s were
supplanting the 60s, and being glad you were alive was suddenly seen
as wimpy and naive. Little did I realize that this pessimism would
remain in the culture while the German films heralding it would be
forgotten even faster than the earlier French ones."
I have only limited familiarity with Fassbinder and with
Straub/Huillet, but, based on what I've seen, I'm inclined to defend
both as progressive, given their historical circumstances. For
example, Fassbinder's cynicism about all the institutions of the
Federal Republic seemed justified. Pessimism is often the correct
political analysis. And Straub and Huillet's illusions about the
German working class probably have something to do with their escaping
the elitism and liberalism of, for example, the Frankfurt School. And
their intellectualism probably makes them a little less susceptible to
fashion: it's admirable that Straub and Huillet remain
anti-imperialists when so many –- Godard notably -- have changed
sides.
>
> As for "Querelle" requiring Fassbinder to "think,"
> that's pretty amusing because what the film thinks
> about is sex -- a subject that the Straubs never deal
> with.
Well, Othon got pretty steamy... I especially liked Jean-Claude
Biette's attempt to woo Plautine at the end: your fiancé's dead,
and I'm the best you can hope for under the circumstances.
Paul
17490
From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 0:00pm
Subject: Re: Experiment in Terror (was Dante's "Explorers")
I saw EXPERIMENT years ago but recall the tight closeup of Red Lynch
threatening one of the women, whispering in her ear - it's the most
striking and extreme shot in Edwards' whole oevre.
And I think it bears strong comparison with that
uncomfortable "Say 'Fuck me'" scene in WILD AT HEART, so the
suggestions that the film influenced Lynch seem to me right on the
money.
17492
From: Andy Rector
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 0:11pm
Subject: Re: Fipresci site alert
pcg wrote:
it's admirable that Straub and Huillet remain
> anti-imperialists when so many –- Godard notably -- have changed
> sides.
You'll have to account for this provocation...or is there an essay I
should read? Godard's Notre musique was one of the only films I
saw in Vienna that directly dealt a blow to imperialism. No one else
(from what I saw) so much as showed a newspaper in their film.
In my opinion, Godard seemed like one of the few "contemporary"
filmmakers amongst
so much pastoral.
Yours,
andy
17493
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: Fipresci site alert
--- Andy Rector wrote:
>
> S/H have never been chic
> (especially at Vienna),
> you can see this in their films (in comparison with
> Fassbinder or
> anyone else)
>
>
True.That's why he was making fun of them in this
fashion.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
17494
From:
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:38am
Subject: Re: Hollywood, Propaganda (was: Fipresci site alert)
I confess I'm mystified by the purported connection between Hollywood,
imperialism, etc. This connection seems to be treated as gospel by many people. Time
for a reality check!
In the US we are drowning in genuine right-wing propaganda. Conservative
radio talk shows are available round the clock - many people listen to them
constantly while they drive or work. The Fox News Network, a far right wing
propaganda TV channel masquerading as "news", is the chief information source for
around a third of the country. There are also right wing books and web sites.
None of these things are ever mentioned in cinephile discussions. Instead,
the belief is that Hollywood films are brainwashing the masses.
Many people I know see around 12 films per year, if that many. By contrast,
they might watch Fox News 2 hours everyday. The Hollywood films they do see
tend to be fairly harmless politically. Where are the evil poltical values in
films such as "Twister", "Shrek" or "Daredevil"?
Admittedly, the recent spate of Hollywood war movies made ever since
"Braveheart" (Mel Gibson) are choked with pro-war agitation. Otherwise, most multiplex
fare seems pretty apolitical, to me.
Cinephiles need to get real. Support for Bush and conservative politics comes
from the huge network of radio and TV propaganda outlets run by
conservatives. It has nothing to do with whether Fassbinder or Wenders supported Hollywood
norms. This whole discussion seems totally out of touch with reality to me.
Mike Grost
17495
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:44pm
Subject: Re: New York Subway (And RAW MEAT)
> I love this film but really only because I romanticized the subway
> during my first trip to NYC. Soooo much more preferable than the
> herky-jerk stop-start of the bus. Plus I had been riding it for three or
> four days before I even wondered how the subway got from Brooklyn to
> Manhattan (under the water! gulp!).
Sometimes over the water, too, on the Manhattan and Williamsburg bridges.
> Finally saw RAW MEAT. SPOILERS. Not about NYC subways. Exceedingly
> strange film. It strung me along good. The scenes with the cannibal
> dwelling in the subway's intenstines were pretty harrowing. Looooooong
> takes, camera endlessly investigating carnage but not answering many
> questions. And then the aboveground scenes - very tongue in cheek. For
> instance, Christopher Lee's odd, odd cameo encourages a jokey
> shot-reverse shot structure that emphasizes a confrontational
> frontality. So the film oscillates between these two poles and
> then....nothing. We learn why the cannibal is down there and that he may
> still be alive at the end of the film. I missed the point.
My imprecise recollection is that the confrontation with the underground
people at the end serves to humanize them in our minds? Whereas the
civilized above-ground goings-on are barbed and difficult to the point of
being antisocial.
I don't know if the film is all that thematically tight, but I liked it a
lot - it defintely put me on the watch for other Gary Sherman films. - Dan
17496
From:
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:51am
Subject: Re: Re: Hollywood, Propaganda (was: Fipresci site alert)
Mike, I don't know what your post was in response to (I seemed to have missed
the original post) but one could definitely make a case for Hollywood being
imperialist without recourse to analyzing the messages of actual Hollywood
films themselves. Hollywood makes buckets of money from overseas markets. India,
for instance, managed to stem the tide of Hollywood imports all the way up
until the 1990s. Now it's very easy to see a Hollywood film in India.
Then again, what "Hollywood" is making buckets of money here? In our current
age of multinational late capitalism, profit doesn't always flow back to
America. And, of course, one eventually needs to account for the successful (or
not) ideological operations of Hollywood films in overseas markets.
Kevin John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17497
From:
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:55am
Subject: Re: Bride of Frankenstein
In a message dated 10/30/04 1:34:44 AM, noelbotevera@y... writes:
> Just thought I'd toss this in, as a kind of Halloween special:
>
> http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/noelmoviereviews/message/468
>
This was a (fine) review of CELLULAR. No BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN, though. Or
did I miss a pun here? Was Basinger particularly Elsa Lanchester-like in the
film (I've yet to see it)?
Kevin John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17498
From:
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:33am
Subject: Re: New York Subway (And RAW MEAT)
In a message dated 10/30/04 9:48:43 AM, sallitt@p... writes:
> My imprecise recollection is that the confrontation with the underground
> people at the end serves to humanize them in our minds? Whereas the
> civilized above-ground goings-on are barbed and difficult to the point of
> being antisocial.
>
SPOILERS. Ah, that makes perfect sense. The reason why I didn't get that was
undoubtedly because the underground people were never humanized in my mind. In
this light, the cannibal grieving over his dying wife was supposed to tug at
our heart strings. But he's feeding her human blood and they're both
surrounded by dead bodies in a wide variety of states of decay (not to mention people
still in the process of dying). I'm a moralistic square and I was more
horrified than touched.
Maybe it's just me. Not sure if I've said this before but I watched films
like BLOODSUCKING FREAKS and SLEEPAWAY CAMP religiously as a pre-teen/teen. Now I
find those films utterly reprehensible and they've led me to theorize that
most horror/slasher films speak to (mostly) boys who are uncomfortable with
their growing bodies. Once (if) you get over that repulsion with puberty, the
films no longer speak to you. HOUSE OF 1000 CORPSES, however, was the first film
to suggest to me that there was a class bias to this attitude (at least a class
rich with cultural capital). Maybe Bill's serial killer book will set me
straight. But sheesh - I can't even stomach CSI.
Kevin John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17499
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:33pm
Subject: Re: Fipresci site alert
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rector"
wrote:
> > I'm curious why the audience gasped when "Tag Gallagher spoke of
> > Straub/Huillet's renewed roots in Western tradition."
>
> Well, Tag left a pause for reaction and the reaction was maybe not
> precisely a gasp but a mutter amongst people who may not of been
> there to laud western civilization.
Straub and Huillet's use of "western tradition" is evident: Corneille,
the Bible, Schoenberg, Mallarmé, Kafka, Hölderlin, Cézanne,
Sophocles. It would have been interesting to question the audience.
>
> Someone asked Jean-Marie to be more "concrete" (a word
> Straub/Huillet have an affinity and right to use) about Fassibinder
> being a fascist. Straub mumbled a bit, something I don't entirely
> remember but something about his "fantasies" and his lack
> of "figures".
I don't understand that. I'll have to find out the context of the Jump
Cut comments. Even if Fassbinder were "unpolitical" and
"irresponsible," he would hardly be alone in having these
characteristics.
Paul
17500
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:02pm
Subject: Re: New York Subway (And RAW MEAT)
SPOILERS for RAW MEAT/DEATH LINE:
> In this light, the cannibal grieving over his dying wife was supposed to
> tug at our heart strings. But he's feeding her human blood and they're
> both surrounded by dead bodies in a wide variety of states of decay (not
> to mention people still in the process of dying). I'm a moralistic
> square and I was more horrified than touched.
Well, that's an understandable response. The filmmakers were probably
going for "horrified and touched at the same time," so you're synching up
with the film at a 50% rate.
> Now I find those films utterly reprehensible and they've
> led me to theorize that most horror/slasher films speak to (mostly) boys
> who are uncomfortable with their growing bodies. Once (if) you get over
> that repulsion with puberty, the films no longer speak to you.
Or maybe young boys are more in touch with our universal desire to destroy
life in messy ways (its connection to sexual desire is not lost on them
either), and maturation gives psychic force to the repression process that
makes us uncomfortable with that desire. Of course, that's just to say
that repression is a useful and necessary thing. - Dan
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