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This group is dedicated to discussing film as art
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17701
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 2:15am
Subject: Re: Making political films politically (Was: Fipresci site alert
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
> Richard Lewontin has commented how E.O. Wilson, who
> does love ants, when complaining about the fate of the rain forest,
> would provide examples only from Cuba.
I haven't been able to substantiate this quote. I've been trying to
remember the source, and assuming it's even accurate, the source might
have been a student in one of Wilson's classes, not Lewontin at all.
In any case Wilson later wrote about the destruction of the tropical
rain forest in "Biodiversity."
Paul
17702
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 3:14am
Subject: Re: Making political films politically (Was: Fipresci site alert
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> The Straubs have never called themselves Marxists, because they
> haven't studied the writings of Marx in the kind of depth they
> would need to call themselves that.
They have a rather bookish perspective. I suppose one could ask them
more concrete questions.
Godard told Andrew Sarris he never read Marx.
AS: You were considered a Marxist activist at one time.
JLG: Oh, no.
AS: You were never a Marxist?
JLG: I never read Marx.
AS: But you talked about Marx.
JLG: Yes, but only as a provocation, mixing Mao and Coca-Cola and so
forth.
Given all the despair in Godard's 1990's movies, I thought of this
comment from Claud Cockburn, the author of "Beat the Devil": "When all
seems dark, try reading a little Marx. It puts things in perspective."
His son wrote, "As I'd mope over the defection of some girl friend
he'd thrust a copy of the Eighteenth Brumaire into my hand and tell me
to cheer up."
Given the discussion of reactionary art, here's another one, an
opportunity to read more Marx/Engels than Godard has.
Engels had this to say about the monarchist Balzac. (Marx didn't live
to write a planned book on Balzac.) It illustrates how a work of art
can be more than its author's declared politics.
"Balzac, whom I consider a far greater master of Realism than all the
Zolas, past, present, or future, gives us in his Comédie Humaine a
most wonderfully Realistic history of French 'society', describing,
chronicle fashion, almost year by year from 1816 to 1848, the
ever-increasing pressure of the rising bourgeoisie upon the society of
nobles that established itself after 1815 and that set up again, as
far as it could (tant bien que mal) the standard of the vieille
politesse française (old French manners). He describes how the last
remnants of this, to him, model society gradually succumbed before the
intrusion of the vulgar monneyed upstart or was corrupted by him. How
the grande dame, whose conjugal infidelities were but a mode of
asserting herself, in perfect accord with the way she had been
disposed of in marriage, gave way to the bourgeoise, who acquired her
husband for cash or cashmere. And around this central picture he
groups a complete history of French society from which, even in
economic details (for instance, the redistribution of real and private
property after the French Revolution) I have learned more than from
all the professional historians, economists and statisticians of the
period together.
"Well, Balzac was politically a legitimist; his great work is a
constant elegy on the irreparable decay of good society; his
sympathies are with the class that is doomed to extinction. But for
all that, his satire is never keener, his irony never more bitter,
than when he sets in motion the very men and woman with whom he
sympathizes most deeply - the nobles. And the only men of whom he
speaks with undisguised admiration are his bitterest political
antagonists, the republican heroes of the Cloître Saint-Mery, the
men who at the time (1830-36) were indeed representatives of the
popular masses.
"That Balzac was thus compelled to go against his own class sympathies
and political prejudices, that he saw the necessity of the downfall of
his favourite nobles and described them as people deserving no better
fate; that he saw the real men of the future where, for the time
being, they alone were to be found - that I consider one of the
greatest triumphs of Realism, and one of the greatest features of old
Balzac." Letter to Margaret Harkness (1888)
I can't think of a precise analogy to Balzac in the cinema -- I don't
really know much about Balzac -- but I'm pretty sure that wherever
"the greatest triumph of Realism" in the 20th century is, it's [in]
the cinema.
Paul
17703
From: Paul Fileri
Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 3:27am
Subject: Re: Making political films politically (Was: Fipresci site alert
Paul G.:
> Engels had this to say about the monarchist Balzac. (Marx didn't live
> to write a planned book on Balzac.) It illustrates how a work of art
> can be more than its author's declared politics.
For what it's worth, this letter written by Engels is often seen as
inaugurating one of the most prominent currents in Marxist literary
criticism (from here to Lukacs and straight thru Jameson). It's one of
the single most influential insights for those writers in this
aesthetic critical tradition: the political intentions of the author
can effectively be ruled out and those who hold opposite views can be
valued even more because they allow the radiance of
History-with-a-capital-H (God-term and all) to shine through. It was
definitely the genesis for Lukacs' criticism. Brecht would then appear
as the great antagonist in this debate to speak as the self-conscious
practicing writer/political activist who aims at "raising the
consciousness" of the audience.
- Paul
17704
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 4:36am
Subject: Fwd: Fw: A Day in the Life of Joe Republican
Note: forwarded message attached.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17705
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 4:41am
Subject: A DAY IN THE LIFE OF JOE REPUBLICAN
Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with
water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is
clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal
fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his
first swallow of coffee, he takes his daily
medication. His medications are safe to take because
some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their
safety and that they work as advertised. All but $10
of his medications are paid for by his employer's
medical plan because some liberal union workers fought
their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe
gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon
and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some
girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat
packing industry.
In his morning shower, Joe reaches for the shampoo.
His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient
and its amount in the total contents because some
crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he
was putting on his body and how much it contained.
Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath.
The air he breathes is clean because some
environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to
stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to
the subway station for his government-subsidized ride
to work. It saves him considerable money in parking
and transportation fees because some fancy-pants
liberal fought for affordable public transportation,
which gives > everyone the opportunity to be a
contributor.
Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with
excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid
holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union
members fought and died for these working standards.
Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's
employer doesn't want his employees to call the
union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes
unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or
unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't
think he should lose his home because of his temporary
misfortune.
Its noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so
he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally
insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal
wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous
bankers who ruined the banking system before the
Great depression. Joe has to pay his Fannie
Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal
student loan because some elitist liberal decided
that Joe and the government would be better off if he
was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.
Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father
this evening at his farm in the country. He gets in
his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in
the world because some America-hating liberal fought
for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood
home. His was the third generation to live in the
house financed by Farmers' Home Administration
because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The
house didn't have electricity until some
big-government liberal (FDR) stuck his nose where it
didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.
He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His
father lives on Social Security and a union pension
because some wine-drinking, quiche-eating liberal
made sure he could take care of himself so Joe
wouldn't have to do so. Joe gets back in his car for
the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The
radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and
conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the
beloved Republicans fought against every protection
and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe
agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals
ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who
believes everyone should take care of themselves,
just like I have."
__________________________________________________
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17706
From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 8:17am
Subject: Re: Making political films politically (Was: Fipresci site alert
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
> >
> Engels had this to say about the monarchist Balzac. (Marx didn't
live
> to write a planned book on Balzac.) It illustrates how a work of art
> can be more than its author's declared politics. Letter to Margaret
Harkness (1888)
>
Bunuel was fond of this passage or another like it from Engels, which
he often quoted.
> I can't think of a precise analogy to Balzac in the cinema
Perhaps Stroheim. Or Ford.
In any case, Bunuel's realist works -- Robinson Crusoe, Diary of a
Chambermaid (by an anarchist), Nazarin (by Perez Galdos, a great
novelist who was then under the influence of Tolstoy's anarchist
writings), Una mujer sin amor (from de Maupassant, a
consciously "critical realist"), Cela s'appelle l'aurore (from a
social realist novel) and Tristana (by the same progressive writer --
and feminist -- who wrote Nazarin) are all inspired by Engels' and
Marx's theories of literature, and by Aragon, an old and constant
friend who switched from surrealism to realism -- and eventually
socialist realism -- at around the time Bunuel was experimenting with
various "realisms" himself.
The influence of Aragon's fiction and theories on Bunuel after the
surrealist period has never been examined, but they continue into the
French "neo-surrealist" period, when Aragon was experimenting with
collage, digressions and nested narratives while referring to the
same source Bunuel always cited: Cervantes.
The only adaptation Bunuel did that was unquestionably of a bourgeois
novel -- the first bourgeois novel, in fact -- is Robinson Crusoe,
which is ultimately not Defoean at all, and not just because of the
discreet sexual allusions. Defoe was a propagandist for England
joining the imperialist competition in Latin America, and his book is
a tract about that; Bunuel's film names the ship he sinks on the
Ariel, a reference to a famous anti-colonialist essay published in
1900 by José Enrique Rodó that gave the Mexican Oscars their name:
the Ariels. (The film won six.)
I think Bunuel and his blacklisted scenarist, Hugo Butler, did the
same thing they had done to Crusoe when they adapted the superb short
story that became The Young One, which has a Darwinian slant that
(pace Luc Moullet) is alien to Bunuel. Viridiana, a supposed
original, actually started life as an adaptation of Halma, Perez
Galdos' sequel to Nazarin, and contains elements of that book.
17707
From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 8:31am
Subject: Re: A DAY IN THE LIFE OF JOE REPUBLICAN
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
Swiftian.
17708
From: Fred Camper
Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 7:32pm
Subject: [Fwd: 11/13: Two Markopoulos Screenings at the Donnell Media Center in NYC]
I haven't seen any of ENIAIOS, but GALAXIE, which I saw eactly oncd 38
years ago, is really really great. It's a series of edited in camera
portraits with superimpositions of objects in the sitter's environs, or
otherwise important to the sitter; there's lots of in camera editing;
it's just wonderful.
Fred Camper
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 11/13: Two Markopoulos Screenings at the Donnell Media Center
in NYC
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 08:50:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Sara Reisman
To: ...
On November 13, two film programs presenting the work
of Gregory Markopoulos are being held at the Donnell
Media Center of the New York Public Library. At 11:00
am a screening of Markopoulos' GALAXIE will take
place, followed by an 1:30 pm screening of the
dedication reel from ENIAIOS which is Markopoulos'
final film. The first cycles of ENIAIOS premiered in
Arcadia, Greece this past summer. The screening will
be followed by a roundtable discussion. Both events
are free and open to the public.
DATE: Saturday, November 13, 2004
TIME: 11:00 am & 1:30 pm
LOCATION: Donnell Media Center Auditorium
20 West 53rd Street, between Fifth & Sixth Avenues
212 621 0609
Admission Free
*At the end of this message is information about
another New York Public Library program presenting
Francois Boue and Helga Fanderl on Tuesday, November
16.
On Saturday, November 13 at 11:00 am filmmaker Robert
Beavers presents a screening of Gregory Markopoulos'
GALAXIE. Made in 1966, GALAXIE is a collection of 30
multi-layered portraits of people central to the
contemporary arts of their time. The subjects include
W.H.Auden, Allen Ginsberg, Jasper Johns, Susan Sontag,
Erick Hawkins, Frances Steloff, filmmakers Storm de
Hirsch, Charles Boultenhouse, Jerome Hill, and Jonas
Mekas, and the art collector Robert Scull. Each was
invited to pose in their homes, together with objects
that they chose to reflect their personalities.
On Saturday, November 13 at 1:30 pm filmmaker Robert
Beavers presents a celebration and roundtable
discussion of the long-awaited screening of a
selection of Gregory Markopoulos' ENIAIOS (1992). The
first cycles of this unseen masterwork, comprised of
22 cycles and over eighty hours of viewing time, had
their much anticipated world premiere in Arcadia,
Greece, in three evening projections this past June.
The Dedication reel from ENIAIOS will precede the
discussion.
These two programs are part of the Library's Hellenic
Festival, made possible by a generous grant from the
Stavros S. Niarchos Foundation.
Also of note: On Thursday, November 16 at 6:00 at the
Otterndorfer Branch (135 Second Avenue, NYC) Helga
Fanderl, a German-born filmmaker now living in Paris,
and Francois Boue, a filmmaker and curator based in
New York City, present their recent works in Super-8mm
film. This is a "Meet the Makers" program.
17709
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 8:17pm
Subject: Re: [Fwd: 11/13: Two Markopoulos Screenings at the Donnell Media Center in NYC]
--- Fred Camper wrote:
> I haven't seen any of ENIAIOS, but GALAXIE, which I
> saw eactly oncd 38
> years ago, is really really great. It's a series of
> edited in camera
> portraits with superimpositions of objects in the
> sitter's environs, or
> otherwise important to the sitter; there's lots of
> in camera editing;
> it's just wonderful.
>
> Fred Camper
>
I gather that ENIAOS involves a reworking of a great
deal of the Markopoulos oeuvre into "cycles," though I
could be wrong. In any event not to be missed.
I wrote about "Galaxie" in "The New American Cinema: A
Critical Anthology" (E.P. Dutton, 1967) Superimposing
Auden's face on top of Auden's face is downright
hallucinatory in its effect.
__________________________________________________
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17710
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 9:26pm
Subject: Howard Keel is Dead
Alas --
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/obit_keel
http://ehrensteinland.com/htmls/g008/howardkeel.html
__________________________________
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Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com
17711
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 11:41pm
Subject: Re: Howard Keel is Dead
Some quotes from Howard Keel:
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0444476/bio
"There is always another part. But there is only one life!"
"You know, people say 'Wait and go to heaven.' Well, if heaven's like
they claim it is, I don't want to go. I'd get bored."
17712
From: Craig Keller
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 0:58am
Subject: Re: Tanner, anyone?
JPC wrote:
>even though she was great as a 19-year
>old in "Tanner '88" and Murphy is great, quite moving, in "T on T"
>too. But their greatness is not a star turn kind of greatness.
>They're just there -- and you have to keep reminding yourself that
>they are actors playing a part -- and there is something almost
>upsetting about the naturalness of the whole thing.
I just finished watching the rest of 'Tanner '88,' and I come away thinking this might be my favorite Altman, besides 'McCabe.' Jack's catatonic stare into the camera at the very end is the perfect summation of the film, at once echoing his "freezes" (which come about from outrage, confusion, shock, joy) that end several of the episodes, and the dead-air blank static of the TV monitor on which the penultimate episode closes -- Jack is all these things at once in the climax, as Joanna (Wendy Crewson -- a superior, proto-Zeta Jones) pleads for a response to the question of whether or not he's getting off the campaign trail -- catatonic with a manic mind, unsure whether he even wants to extricate himself from "the process," -- and probably wondering whether he even exists if he does! This is remarkable stuff -- Bill, don't just wait for tapes of 'Tanner on Tanner,' get a hold of the DVD of 'Tanner '88' ASAP!!
Another note in regard to Jack in "the process" -- it's fascinating how, by the time in the film ("series" somehow doesn't seem appropriate) the Democratic Convention rolls around, Altman ends up giving campaign-manager T.J. Cavanaugh and the rest in the campaign circle a lot more screen-time than Jack himself -- the campaign picks up a life and momentum all its own, for which Jack's ideals are (to be sure) the motivating force, with the individual behind them seeming to recede (literally sequestered in his suite as the team -- including Harry Anderson, whose hyperkinetic ham-fistery I found a bit off-putting -- turns all its attention towards "process," realpolitik, the eleventh-hour push to skew the superdelegates).
I agree with you on the fact that there's something almost upsetting about the naturalness -- the first 'Tanner,' at least, is quite unusual in that one has this feeling toward the proceedings, but it comes about -without- bearing witness to an "improvisational" or "Method" style in the acting!! I concur too, J-P, with your finding this all (the portrayals, the situations, this strange "naturalness") very moving.
craig.
17713
From: Zach Campbell
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 1:13am
Subject: Re: [Fwd: 11/13: Two Markopoulos Screenings at the Donnell Media Center in NYC]
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Fred Camper wrote:
> I haven't seen any of ENIAIOS, but GALAXIE, which I saw eactly
> oncd 38 years ago, is really really great.
Fred, thanks a lot for posting this.
The only downside is that a lot of interesting films are playing in
the city that day already, and I'll probably have to pass most of
them up in order to see the Markopoulos ones since they're so
scarce ...
--Zach
17714
From: Zach Campbell
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 1:34am
Subject: Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Nolan wrote:
> Even more fundamental than a moral sense, is an individual's
> tendency to act or not to act. Some of us must do things when we
> morally disagree; others are not necessarily in passive agreement,
> but let things play out even if we morally disagree. There is
> something to the level of activity (impulsivity -- reflectivity)
> of an individual that may supersede one's morality.
This is putting into thankfully clear language a question that has
weighed on my mind for a while now, Elizabeth. I wish I'd read that
Engels article that Paul Fileri has just brought up on the same sort
of topic.
In addition to what an artist expresses through his characters, an
artist's temperament can be measured to an extent among this
impulsive/reflective spectrum too, but sometimes it's not so clear
where a figure resides. How is it that Ozu can appear largely
impassive--observational--yet most seem to agree that his films are
critiques or even outright indictments of many elements of Japanese
society? Is Ozu more impulsive than we might think? Or is he
letting History do his work for him?
Or let's step outside of directors: surely a bit of book research
indicates beyond doubt that Stepin Fetchit was a fascinating and
shrewd individual who managed to slip by a lot of people's radars.
Yet if, to this day, Fetchit is identified as a symbol of black
servitude and contemporary viewers cringe at his "complicity" in the
racist system (as classmates of mine have done, and as I did the
first time I saw Fetchit on-screen), did his own intent to subvert
(i.e., to be impulsive) come off as too passive? So where was he on
an impulsive-reflective spectrum?
--Zach
17715
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 2:21am
Subject: Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Zach Campbell"
wrote:
>
>How is it that Ozu can appear largely
> impassive--observational--yet most seem to agree that his films
are
> critiques or even outright indictments of many elements of
Japanese
> society? Is Ozu more impulsive than we might think? Or is he
> letting History do his work for him?
>
The best (and perhaps most sensible ) way of critiquing society (any
society, any element of it) is to look at it impassively.
> Or let's step outside of directors: surely a bit of book research
> indicates beyond doubt that Stepin Fetchit was a fascinating and
> shrewd individual who managed to slip by a lot of people's
radars.
> Yet if, to this day, Fetchit is identified as a symbol of black
> servitude and contemporary viewers cringe at his "complicity" in
the
> racist system (as classmates of mine have done, and as I did the
> first time I saw Fetchit on-screen), did his own intent to subvert
> (i.e., to be impulsive) come off as too passive? So where was he
on
> an impulsive-reflective spectrum?
>
> --Zach
Fetchit was a genius. he knew exactly what he was doing and how
far he could go too far (quoting Cocteau). Not everybody "gets"
genius.
17716
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 3:55am
Subject: Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
"Fetchit was a genius. he knew exactly what he was doing and how
far he could go too far (quoting Cocteau). Not everybody 'gets'
genius."
I second you J-P. His performance in SALUTE is astonishing, and the
bit where he flirts with the maid in CHARLIE CHAN IN EGYPT is also
remarkable.
Richard
17717
From: Noel Vera
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 5:40am
Subject: Motorcycle Diaries
Just saw The Motorcycle Diaries. It's moving enough and entertaining
enough, and skilfully made (by Walter Salles of Midnight and Central
Station fame), and Gael Bernal has charisma enough to consign Billy
Crudup, Johnny Depp and Ethan Hawke (but not Robert Downey, Jr.)
combined to the shadowy corner of a room, forever.
But why do I get the feeling the movie is something of a whitewash?
The only serious flaw we see in the character is that he's too
honest; the only hanky panky he does is a little harmless flirting,
and some groping in a car with his true love (okay, there's that
dance, but he looks very, very sorry afterwards). I thought Bernal
was a more real youth in Y Tu Mama Tambien (the more emotionally
complex film, overall), while this movie comes off as a recruiting
picture for the Communist Party--and to tell the truth I've seen
better recruiting pictures for the Communist Party (Battleship
Potemkin, I Am Cuba and Lino Brocka/Pete Lacaba's Orapronobis,
anyone?).
17718
From: Andy Rector
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 6:01am
Subject: Re: Making political films politically (Was: Fipresci site alert
> Godard jokes about how communism could never work in "Notre
> Musique." But his position is different from anti-Communism of his
> friend Glucksmann and his late friend Furet, who believe that
> Communism like radical Islam is nothing but: "'LONG LIVE DEATH!':
> religious shell, nihilist kernel!
If Bulgarian soccer players can make communism for a few minutes,
that's hopeful! not necessarily a joke. If Godard himself says in
the film that humane people don't start revolutions (which brings us
back to the Straubs/Luxemburg/Vittorini), Godard also includes
Goytisolo's: (PP)what's needed is a revolution with comparable force
in CREATIVITY, etc...("little digital cameras", which Godard is
using too).
I wish I could read that interview!!!!
yours,
andy
17719
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 6:57am
Subject: Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Zach Campbell"
wrote:
>
> In addition to what an artist expresses through his characters, an
> artist's temperament can be measured to an extent among this
> impulsive/reflective spectrum too, but sometimes it's not so clear
> where a figure resides. How is it that Ozu can appear largely
> impassive--observational--yet most seem to agree that his films are
> critiques or even outright indictments of many elements of Japanese
> society? Is Ozu more impulsive than we might think? Or is he
> letting History do his work for him?
Ozu's wartime films are especially interesting in this respect.
Bordwell's book -- which is unfortunately very hard to find –
describes their political role on behalf of Japanese militarism in
encouraging passivity and obedience. Noel Burch's book discusses a
1950 critique of Ozu by Tahei Imamura, which emphasizes the passivity
of his films and of traditional Japanese culture in general. Burch
argues against "throwing out the baby with the bath water."
Paul
17720
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 8:10am
Subject: Re: Making political films politically (Was: Fipresci site alert
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rector"
wrote:
> If Bulgarian soccer players can make communism for a few minutes,
> that's hopeful! not necessarily a joke.
> If Godard himself says in
> the film that humane people don't start revolutions (which brings
us
> back to the Straubs/Luxemburg/Vittorini), Godard also includes
> Goytisolo's: (PP)what's needed is a revolution with comparable
force
> in CREATIVITY, etc...("little digital cameras", which Godard is
> using too).
>
> I wish I could read that interview!!!!
>
> yours,
> andy
I thought the quote had to do with something like a revolution of
creativity -- something explicity non-political. I may misremember.
Perhaps Godard's views are close to Goytiloso's. But I think we'd
encounter the same problems as with the discussion on Yugoslavia.
People would say, yes, of course, Goytiloso is right, it's obvious.
I'd disagree, and it would go nowhere.
Paul
17721
From: Fred Camper
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 9:25am
Subject: Re: Re: [Fwd: 11/13: Two Markopoulos Screenings at the Donnell Media Center in NYC]
Zach, if you do go, let us know what you think.
It's my understanding that much of "Eniaios" consists of very short
images from Markopoulos's earlier work with extensive use of black. The
one pre-"Eniaios" Markopoulos film that I've seen that was edited that
way, "Hagiographia," all single frames with black rhythmically
interspersed, was actually quite great. It was so "minimal" that I
wondered if I was deluding myself, so I showed it to Brakhage who
pronounced it a real Markopoulos film. Two people I know who went to the
"Temenos" festival in Greece this June, where many sections of "Eniaios"
were shown, pronounced it perhaps their greatest film viewing experience
ever.
Fred Camper
17722
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 2:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent
--- Paul Gallagher wrote:
>
> Ozu's wartime films are especially interesting in
> this respect.
> Bordwell's book -- which is unfortunately very hard
> to find –
> describes their political role on behalf of Japanese
> militarism in
> encouraging passivity and obedience. Noel Burch's
> book discusses a
> 1950 critique of Ozu by Tahei Imamura, which
> emphasizes the passivity
> of his films and of traditional Japanese culture in
> general. Burch
> argues against "throwing out the baby with the bath
> water."
>
There's nothing passive about Ozu's refusal to make
yet another version of "The Loyal 47 Ronin" and do
"There Was a Father" instead.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
17723
From: Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 3:42pm
Subject: Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> There's nothing passive about Ozu's refusal to make
> yet another version of "The Loyal 47 Ronin" and do
> "There Was a Father" instead.
I agree that -- and would note that Ozu can be judged (with similar
results) both by the films he did make and the ones he didn't.
Ozu spent much of the war years _avoiding_ making propaganda films.
Indeed, he spent a considerable amount of time in Singapore watching
contraband Hollywood films -- instead of making the film on the
"liberation" of India he was supposed to make.
Neither the film he wasn't allowed to make (the original version of
"Green Tea Over Rice") nor the two he did make ("Toda Family" or
"There Was a Father") did much to promote th militarist agenda.
Indeed, I would argue that the two films he did make both covertly
undermined any ideological messages they were "supposed" to make,
largely by means of disruptive endings.
In "Toda Family", Shin Saburi (as the younger son) is presented as the
(rather late-blooming) spirit of rectitude -- not only ambitiously
supporting the conquest of North China's business world -- but also
harshly denouncing his siblings for their neglect of the widowed
mother (and youngest sister). But his behavior some worrying points
-- he speaks brutally even to the one sister who had done nothing
wrong (the mother unilaterally decided to go to her run-down coastal
house without visiting this daughter -- or even telling the daughter
of her plans). In addition, his own excuse for not bothering to write
to (or even inquire after) his mother and sister comes across as
exceedingly thin. Most disconertingly, after lecturing so effusively
about duty -- when his mother and sister raise HIS duty (getting
married to a nice, petty and competent girl), he flees to the beach
like a little child -- in a surrising bit of slapstick humor.
Underneath the humor of the ending, one notes that Saburi displays no
courtesy or sense of honor whatsoever to the guest who is arriving
(going far beyond simply rejecting his arguable "duty" to marry).
Blustering talk seems to be more what Saburi is about than genuine
responsibility. Surely Ozu had something in mind by showing us, at
the last minute, that his supposedly exemplary lead character had feet
of very low-grade clay.
The ending of "There Was a Father" likewise undermines much of what
went before -- albeit not in the same (ostensibly) farcial fashion
used in "Toda Family"). Throughout the film, we have watched Chishu
Ryu (as the noble father) place "duty" above every family
consideration and listened to him lecture his son as to why "duty"
must always take precedence -- resulting in the fact that the two were
almost always separated from each other. We also note that the son
(played by Shuji Sano -- in the adult version) never really seems
especially convinced by his father's high sounding rhetoric.
At the end, as Sano and his new wife travel on the train (along with
the box of his father's ashes) to a place far from her family home, he
tells her that he wants to have her father (and little brother) come
join them (strongly suggesting that he does not want his wife to be
deprived of HER family in the name of her marital duty). When all is
said and done, the son still seems to reject (pretty flatly) the
notion that duty to society trumps familial affection and domestic
ties.
Both Ryu in "There Was a Father" and Saburi in "Todas" say all the
"right" things (extolling virtues consistent with official demands --
even if the content is not outright propagandistic), but in each case,
Ozu hints that each exhibits limited vision, missing important points
(and competing values of equal or greater importance).
Michael Kerpan
Boston, MA
P.S. Pardon the long initial post -- but the issue here is one of
especial interest to me. By way of introduction, my main cinematic
interest is classic Japanese cinema (especially Ozu and Naruse and
Yamanaka and, newly, Shimizu) and its real (and virtual) progeny. I
have a few non-Asian areas of obsession -- most particularly the films
of Rivette, Bunuel and Kozintsev.
17724
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 5:15pm
Subject: Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> There's nothing passive about Ozu's refusal to make
> yet another version of "The Loyal 47 Ronin" and do
> "There Was a Father" instead.
That's a good point. I don't have Bordwell's book, but if I remember
correctly, he emphasizes the role of Japanese national monuments and
Buddhist ceremonires in "There Was a Father." The military had
encouraged both.
For those unfamiliar with "To the Distant Observer": Burch argues that
Japanese militarism was more of a mass phenomenon than European
fascism, particularly on the cultural level. He thinks what this meant
was that "the social pressure to adopt Western modes ... abated," and
this led to the maintenance of traditional Japanese values in
"narrative forms and mode of representation" in the cinema, with the
support of a mass audience. In other words, there developed "a
specifically national cinema... a non-Western, specifically Asiatic
film." Hence, the rise of the Right led to the "tacit refutation of
Hollywood codes and of their claim to universality." Burch admires how
Mizoguchi, Ozu, and other filmmakers avoided nationalism in the 1930's
(Mizoguchi's 1932 "The Dawn of Manchuria and Mongolia" being an
exception), but he does think "the maintenance in so many films of
traditional values ... is nevertheless clearly consonant with the
ideological indoctrination organized by the caste that was rapidly
taking over Japan at the time."
Many of Burch's points are controversial -- in particular, that most
Japanese film in the 1930's and 1940's was closer to Hollywood norms,
and that his idealization of a fixed, unchanging, pure Japanese
traditional culture is false and little different from that of
Japanese nationalist or Western Orientalism.
Paul
17726
From: Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 5:38pm
Subject: Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
> Many of Burch's points are controversial -- in particular, that most
> Japanese film in the 1930's and 1940's was closer to Hollywood norms,
> and that his idealization of a fixed, unchanging, pure Japanese
> traditional culture is false and little different from that of
> Japanese nationalist or Western Orientalism.
I suspect that far too few films of the very late 30s and early 40s
are readily available (or, sadly perhaps, even still in existence) to
make a solid assessment of what was going on.
The most enigmatic film I've seen so far from this period is Shimizu's
"Kanzashi" (Ornamental Hairpin) which adamantly ignores (on the
surface) any trace of propaganda or topicality. Instead, this story
of a group of people idling away their summer at a hot springs resort
seem almost subversive in its (seemingly) simple celebration of the
joy of life.
I suspect that Burch's theories on this period (as provocative of
thought as they may be) were based on examination of a very tiny
sample of the films actually made.
MEK
17727
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 5:53pm
Subject: Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Michael E. Kerpan, Jr."
wrote:
>
> P.S. Pardon the long initial post -- but the issue here is one of
> especial interest to me.
Thank you. I'm interested in anything that can illuminate "There Was a
Father."
Do good prints exist of "There Was a Father" and "Toda Brothers and
Sisters"? The ones I saw recently in the traveling Ozu retrospective
and later at BAM (maybe the same prints) had lots of noise on their
soundtracks, among other problems.
I seem to remember a 16mm print that I saw of "There Was a Father"
being much better in sound quality. I saw that at the Harvard-Epworth
Church in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I don't know where they got their
copy.
Paul
17728
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 5:56pm
Subject: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
> Both Ryu in "There Was a Father" and Saburi in "Todas" say all the
> "right" things (extolling virtues consistent with official demands --
> even if the content is not outright propagandistic), but in each case,
> Ozu hints that each exhibits limited vision, missing important points
> (and competing values of equal or greater importance).
I wonder, though, if such a slight deviation from doctrine stands up
against the long, long minutes of Ryu's preaching. It might be a clue to
Ozu's own feelings, but aesthetically it doesn't help me much.
> P.S. Pardon the long initial post -- but the issue here is one of
> especial interest to me. By way of introduction, my main cinematic
> interest is classic Japanese cinema (especially Ozu and Naruse and
> Yamanaka and, newly, Shimizu)
Nice to hear from another Yamanaka fan. I've been trying to figure out if
any of his films exist other than HUMANITY AND PAPER BALLOONS (which is
going to come out on DVD, by the way), POT WORTH A MILLION RYO, and
KOCHIYAMA SOCHUN (which I liked less than the other two). Richie talks
about other films as if he's seen them, but maybe he's faking it.
Apparently James Quandt is working on an incomplete (15 or 20 films)
Naruse retro, which may show at Film Forum in NYC next year. No word on
whether we'll see films that weren't in the 80s traveling retro. - Dan
17729
From: Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 6:06pm
Subject: Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
> Do good prints exist of "There Was a Father" and "Toda Brothers and
> Sisters"? The ones I saw recently in the traveling Ozu retrospective
> and later at BAM (maybe the same prints) had lots of noise on their
> soundtracks, among other problems.
>
> I seem to remember a 16mm print that I saw of "There Was a Father"
> being much better in sound quality. I saw that at the Harvard-Epworth
> Church in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I don't know where they got their
> copy.
Alas, even in the (somewhat) cleaned up versions included in the
Shochiku DVD box sets, both "There Was a Father" and "Todas" look and
sound pretty poor. I actually think that, in its attempts to clean up
the sound in "Father", Shochiku may have made things worse. The sound
on the DVD has a very strange hollow sound -- unlike the
ultra-low-fidelity video copy of copy of copy (etc.) of an Australian
broadcast I have also seen. I suspect the new print has a similar
sound quality. As I understand it, the best remaining sources of both
films are in a pretty poor state of preservation.
Assuming that the Harvard-Epworth showing you mention occurred between
25 to 30 years ago, it is possible that there were then
better-preserved prints circulating than exist now. ;~{
MEK
17730
From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 6:15pm
Subject: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
>
> Apparently James Quandt is working on an incomplete (15 or 20
films)
> Naruse retro, which may show at Film Forum in NYC next year.
Among the things I inherited recently for Lurking (and soon-to-be
Moving) Marvin was a huge tabloid-format anthology on Mizoguchi
edited by Quandt when he did a Mizo retro. It would've made a good
book -- was it ever published in book form?
17731
From: Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 6:49pm
Subject: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> I wonder, though, if such a slight deviation from doctrine stands
> up against the long, long minutes of Ryu's preaching. It might be
> a clue to Ozu's own feelings, but aesthetically it doesn't help
> me much.
It helps me. ;~}
If one considers the structure, Ozu seems to favor the son's view --
though he never _says_ it outright (and he couldn't). The father
constantly makes rigid duty-based decisions -- leaving his son alone
and hurt. The son at most acquiesces in, but never really accepts his
(otherwise admirable) father's strictures. When his father is dead,
the son's first act as head of HIS household is to assure his wife
that he will allow her to re-establish her familial connections (in
what I believe is a very untraditional fashion).
Because Ryu is the more seemingly dominant figure, I think we are (as
the censors were intended to be) tricked into focusing on him and his
vociferously expressed -- thus, allowing the son's alternative values
to maintain a covert presence -- until the end when they are allowed
to emerge more fully. Ozu pulls off the delicate trick of genuinely
valuing the father for all his many good points, yet allowing us to
see for ourselves that (on what might be the most important of
issues), the father just might have been misguided.
> Nice to hear from another Yamanaka fan. I've been trying to figure
out if
> any of his films exist other than HUMANITY AND PAPER BALLOONS (which is
> going to come out on DVD, by the way), POT WORTH A MILLION RYO, and
> KOCHIYAMA SOCHUN (which I liked less than the other two). Richie talks
> about other films as if he's seen them, but maybe he's faking it.
The Nikkatsu DVD set contains two tiny fragments of two earlier films
(total time for both -- under 2 minutes). It is my understanding that
the three complete films, and these two snippets, are all that remains
of Yamanaka's 20+ films.
I love all three films -- but "Kochiyama" might come in as number
three for me, also (then again, there is the presence of young Setsuko
Hara). "Kochiyama" has been a bit of a struggle to come to grips with
because I have had to work my way through it without either subtitles
or a decent synopsis. There is a summary of the kabuki play on which
it is based online somewhere -- but Yamanaka's take is so radically
revisionist it doesn't help a great deal.
> Apparently James Quandt is working on an incomplete (15 or 20 films)
> Naruse retro, which may show at Film Forum in NYC next year. No
word on
> whether we'll see films that weren't in the 80s traveling retro.
Well, my Naruse count is up to 17 or 18 so far -- but I think he may
have 50 or more surviving films (far more than Ozu or Mizoguchi --
comparable to Kinoshita). I like some more than others, but I haven't
seen a bad film yet in the batch I've watched.
I hope that Japanese DVD makers will inmcrease their current Naruse
DVD count above the current one (1!) during his upcoming centennial year.
I am surprised at how Naruse has been largely pigeonholed as a dour
pessimist. Whatever his personal characteristics may have been,
Naruse's films are much richer and more complex (with a surprising
amount of humor, given his reputation). Audie Bock tried to
popularize a fairly multi-faceted appraisal of Naruse -- but it does
not seem to have help up against conventional wisdom.
MEK
17732
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 7:05pm
Subject: Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
"I don't have Bordwell's book, but if I remember correctly, he
emphasizes the role of Japanese national monuments and Buddhist
ceremonires in "There Was a Father." The military had encouraged
both."
CHICHI ARIKI/THERE WAS A FATHER was made to satisfy the propaganda
requirements that the government imposed on the film industry in
autumn 1941. At the same time the Peace Preservation Law and the
National Security Act were also expanded and amended to carry the
death penalty for certain violations (the famous journalist Ozaki
Hotsumi was executed for violation of the Peace Preservation Law, and
the charcter Noge in Kurosawa's WAGA SEISHUN NI KUI NASHI/NO REGRETS
FOR OUR YOUTH was in part based on Ozaki.) No doubt Ozu conceded in
showing the monuments (although in his post war film NAGAYA NO
SHINSHI ROKU/RECORD OF A TENEMENT GENTLEMAN he shows the monument to
Saigo the Great in Ueno Park ironically,) but Buddhist ceremonies
were a part of lower middle class life before the rise of the
military so Ozu's treatment of this aspect of Japanese life didn't
necessarily play into the hands of military propaganda.
"For those unfamiliar with 'To the Distant Observer': Burch argues
that Japanese militarism was more of a mass phenomenon than European
fascism, particularly on the cultural level. He thinks what this meant
was that 'the social pressure to adopt Western modes ... abated,' and
this led to the maintenance of traditional Japanese values in
'narrative forms and mode of representation' in the cinema, with the
support of a mass audience. In other words, there developed 'a
specifically national cinema... a non-Western, specifically Asiatic
film.' Hence, the rise of the Right led to the 'tacit refutation of
Hollywood codes and of their claim to universality.'"
In the late '20s and until 1933 traditional Japanese values were a
site of contention for both the Left and the Right, and after the war
the Left made significant gains among country folk and youth with the
Folk Lore Movement (and its accompanying folk song clubs.) The right
gained its monopoly with the near complete supression of the Japanese
Left during the period 1933-34 (Mizoguchi's brother was caught in the
1934 sweep and executed in December 1944 along with a number of other
political prisners.)
"Burch admires how Mizoguchi, Ozu, and other filmmakers avoided
nationalism in the 1930's (Mizoguchi's 1932 "The Dawn of Manchuria
and Mongolia" being an exception), but he does he does
think 'the 'maintenance in so many films of traditional values ... is
evertheless clearly consonant with the ideological indoctrination
organized by the caste that was rapidly taking over Japan at the
time.'"
Both Left and Right have appealed to traditional values, nor
are they ideologically monolithic. Although the Left has never made
use of the symbology of the Emperor, the Right was split over the
role of the Emperor, with one faction finding the Emperor system an
obstacle to its goals of scientific (if you will) nationalism and
Asian hegemony.
"Many of Burch's points are controversial -- in particular, that most
Japanese film in the 1930's and 1940's was closer to Hollywood norms,
and that his idealization of a fixed, unchanging, pure Japanese
traditional culture is false and little different from that of
Japanese nationalist or Western Orientalism."
The evidence of Japanese films made during the 1930s and 1940s is
hard to come by; as many as 70% are believed to be lost, so one would
have to make a judgement based on viewing all the surving films and
an examination of extant screenplays, stills and contemporary reviews
to come to any definitive conclusions.
Burch also relied on Wittfogel's "Oriental Despotism" which has been
superceded by research conducted in China beginning in the 1980s.
But his book is very valuable for his discussion of individual films
even if, in the final analysis, his thesis dosen't hold up.
Richard
17733
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 7:12pm
Subject: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
"Among the things I inherited recently for Lurking (and soon-to-be
Moving) Marvin was a huge tabloid-format anthology on Mizoguchi
edited by Quandt when he did a Mizo retro. It would've made a good
book -- was it ever published in book form?"
If you're talking about the centenial anthology, it hasn't been
published in book form. If it ever is published it would benefit
from the inclusion of Fred Camper's Chicago Reader article on GENROKU
CHUSHINGURA.
Richard
17734
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 7:29pm
Subject: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Michael E. Kerpan, Jr."
wrote:
"The Nikkatsu DVD set contains two tiny fragments of two earlier films
(total time for both -- under 2 minutes). It is my understanding that
the three complete films, and these two snippets, are all that remains
of Yamanaka's 20+ films."
Alas, those are indeed Yamanaka's sole surviving films. Ritchie was
summarizing reviews of Yamanaka's other (now lost)pictures without
saying so.
"Well, my Naruse count is up to 17 or 18 so far -- but I think he may
have 50 or more surviving films (far more than Ozu or Mizoguchi --
comparable to Kinoshita). I like some more than others, but I haven't
seen a bad film yet in the batch I've watched."
That figure sounds about right. Naruse was also more active during
the Pacific War period than either Mizo or Ozu, and it would be
interesting to see some of his war time pictures as well as his
1930s movies rather than the 1950s works (worthy as they are for re-
viewing.)
"I am surprised at how Naruse has been largely pigeonholed as a dour
pessimist. Whatever his personal characteristics may have been,
Naruse's films are much richer and more complex (with a surprising
amount of humor, given his reputation). Audie Bock tried to
popularize a fairly multi-faceted appraisal of Naruse -- but it does
not seem to have help up against conventional wisdom."
Maybe Quandt's retro will inspire a reappraisal. It would also be
nice to see Gosho get his due one day.
Richard
17735
From: Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 7:48pm
Subject: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Modiano"
> That figure sounds about right. Naruse was also more active during
> the Pacific War period than either Mizo or Ozu, and it would be
> interesting to see some of his war time pictures as well as his
> 1930s movies rather than the 1950s works (worthy as they are for re-
> viewing.)
Naruse himself does not seem to have been overly enthusiastic about
his own war-time work. Based on Audie Bock's summaries, however, it
seems like he expended a lot of effort on avoiding making anything
that was especially propagandistic.
> Maybe Quandt's retro will inspire a reappraisal. It would also be
> nice to see Gosho get his due one day.
Shigehiko Hasumi claims that one of the most significant aspects of
Naruse's work is his use of light. I have never seen anything of
Naruse's actually screened -- and the videos (and copies of videos and
broadcasts, etc.) I've seen are not high enough quality to really
appreciate mastery in the use of light.
The recent Ozu retrospective has, I think, been pretty successful in
shaking up settled opinions on Ozu. Because it was comprehensive, it
showed just how much more diverse his output was and just how
non-linear the path to his "late style" was than conventional wisdom
would haveled people to believe. In the event of any Naruse
retrospective, I would hope that the selection of films (even if not
as comprehensive as for Ozu) would be diverse enough to dislodge
reductionistic conceptions. I suppose one can hope for the best from
Quandt.
It would certainly be nice to see Gosho's work -- but it is sad that
Shochiku's Shimizu mini-retrospective seems to have found so few
takers. (It certainly does not seem like this is ever going to make
it to Boston). Based on what I've seen so far, this is another major
artist who we should know about -- but have virtually no experience of
(he apparently made around 150 films).
MEK
17736
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 8:23pm
Subject: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Modiano"
wrote:
> Alas, those are indeed Yamanaka's sole surviving films. Ritchie
was
> summarizing reviews of Yamanaka's other (now lost)pictures without
> saying so.
I wondered about "Kawachiyama Shunso," which appeared in Shinozaki
Makoto's top 10 films of all time list for Sight and Sound. I assume
that it's the same film as "Kochiyama Soshun." Is it another spelling
of Kochiyama Soshun's name?
By the way, Makoto's top 10 list is interesting.
Sunrise (Murnau)
Kawachiyama Shunso (Yamanaka)
Day of Wrath (Dreyer)
Ride the High Country (Peckinpah)
Subete ga kurutteru (Suzuki)
I, the Executioner (Kato Tai)
The Grissom Gang (Aldrich)
Opening Night (Cassavetes)
L'Argent (Bresson)
Unforgiven (Eastwood)
I've never heard of Kato Tai.
Paul
17737
From: Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 8:51pm
Subject: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
> I wondered about "Kawachiyama Shunso," which appeared in Shinozaki
> Makoto's top 10 films of all time list for Sight and Sound. I assume
> that it's the same film as "Kochiyama Soshun." Is it another spelling
> of Kochiyama Soshun's name?
It definitely sounds like a mis-transcription of the title of
Yamanaka's film. ;~}
"Kochiyama" appears to be the family name of the hero. I've always
assumed that "soshun" is "early spring" (as in Ozu) -- but I guess it
could be his given name.
The film appears to be pretty much the Japanese equivalent of Robin
Hood -- in its authentic downbeat (British) legendary form. It is
iinteresting that Shinozaki rates this so highly, as there would
appear to be some echoes of Yamanaka's film in Shinozaki's own "Not
Forgotten".
MEK
17738
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 9:27pm
Subject: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
"I assume that it's the same film as "Kochiyama Soshun." Is it
another spelling of Kochiyama Soshun's name?"
Very likely a misspelling rather than an alternate spelling.
"I've never heard of Kato Tai."
Kato (surname) Tai is best known in the West for his entries in
the "Red Peony" woman gambler series. He made a lot of period yakuza
films and chambara (sword fight) pictures. The picture Makoto lists
sounds like one of the yakuza movies but I don't know that English
title.
Richard
17739
From: peckinpah20012000
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 10:12pm
Subject: Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Modiano"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
> wrote:
>
> "Fetchit was a genius. he knew exactly what he was doing and how
> far he could go too far (quoting Cocteau). Not everybody 'gets'
> genius."
>
> I second you J-P.
I support you also despite whatever "politically incorrect"
charges may result. Jospeh McBride's biography of Ford mentions the
director's respect for Fetchit. Is not the parodic performance also
equivalent to Anglo "stage Irish" attitudes towards Ford and his own
countrymen?
I believe Ford concludes JUDGE PRIEST with a shot of a euphoric
Fetchit.
Also during the 1950s Amos and Andy were very popular on BBC TV in
the South Wales area. Viewers admired their comic talents and never
looked on them from the condescending aspect of racism. Andy was
played by veteran independent black actor of the 30s, Spencer
Williams. Although "Lightnin' might fall into the Fetchit mode,
Kingfish, Amos, Calhoun, and Sapphire did not.The performances were
very similar to those of Northern comedians such as Ted Lune and
Dougie Wakefield who would put on an act that neither they, not
their audiences, would regard as "real." Also, one former African-
American student from Chicago told me years ago that she and her
community really admired Fetchit.
These attitudes may be denied by Jessie Jackson and others but a
historical investigation into performance as subversion is long
overdue and Fetchit may be a valuable object of study here.
Tony Williams
17740
From: Zach Campbell
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 11:48pm
Subject: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
Richard, then Michael:
> > It would also be nice to see Gosho get his due one day.
> It would certainly be nice to see Gosho's work
I've only seen WHERE CHIMNEYS ARE SEEN (projected), and though I
wasn't crazy about it, I'd love to try on some more of his work.
Does anyone have any favorites or tantalizing anecdotes about this
guy?
--Zach
17741
From: Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 0:11am
Subject: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Zach Campbell" wrote:
> I've only seen WHERE CHIMNEYS ARE SEEN (projected), and though I
> wasn't crazy about it, I'd love to try on some more of his work.
> Does anyone have any favorites or tantalizing anecdotes about this
> guy?
Still largely terra incognita for me too, alas. Maybe Shochiku will
do something with him after they finish their 6 volume (60 film)
Kinoshita DVD series.
MEK
17742
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 2:05am
Subject: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Zach Campbell"
wrote:
"I've only seen WHERE CHIMNEYS ARE SEEN (projected), and though I
wasn't crazy about it, I'd love to try on some more of his work.
Does anyone have any favorites or tantalizing anecdotes about this
guy?"
Gosho was said to be the son of a geisha although he sems never to
have treated the subject of geisha in any of his movies as far as I
know. He began his career at Shochiku as an assistant director for
Shimizu. According to the current standard Japanese film history
("Nihon Eiga Shi" Vol.I by Sato Tadao)he directed the first Japanese
all-talkie MADAMU TO NYOBO/THE NEIGHBOR'S WIFE AND MINE (1931.) As
Michael noted, Gosho has about 150 films in his filmography, though
only a few of his 1930s movies have been shown in the West. I
imagine that a great many have been lost. Like Ozu Gosho made shomin
geki (stories of the lower middle class) and they both worked at
Shochiku's Ofuna studios near Kamakura. While Ozu spent almost his
entire career at Shochiku Gosho worked for Toho after the war and
then formed his own company before finally returning to Shochiku in
the mid-1950s.
I think his best movies are the ones where he worked on the
scenarios, and ENTOTSU NO MIERU BASH/WHERE CHIMNEYS ARE SEEN isn't
one of them. This movie seems to be the one most widely seen in the
West, but for me OSAKA NO YADO/AN INN IN OSAKA is better (he co-wrote
this one.) Also good is his color film WAGA AI/I LOVE (aka WHEN A
WOMAN LOVES.) In the 1930s he was singled out for his innovative
decoupage (I haven't seen any of the 1930s pictures,) and this seems
to have survived into the 1950s. In short, we need a Gosho
retrospective.
Richard
17743
From:
Date: Mon Nov 8, 2004 10:13pm
Subject: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
On "There Was a Father" (Ozu)
This is just a superb movie. It seems like the other side of "Tokyo Story".
That is about bad kids who reject their parents, and do not want to spend time
with them. This is a role reversal: it is about a bad father who never wants
to spend time with his son. It is Ozu's heart-breaking denunciation of such bad
parenting.
It urges people to rush out and try to spend time with their loved ones
before it is too late.
On Naruse: am really looking forward to seeing more of his films. Off the
evidence of "Late Chrysanthemums", he is a master filmmaker.
Mike Grost
17744
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 7:13am
Subject: Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Michael E. Kerpan, Jr."
wrote:
>
> Assuming that the Harvard-Epworth showing you mention occurred
between
> 25 to 30 years ago, it is possible that there were then
> better-preserved prints circulating than exist now. ;~{
>
I'd guess it was 1984. Rev. Edward Mark showed films at the
Harvard-Epworth Church from the 1960's to the 1990's.
There was a small Naruse retrospective at the Museum of Fine Arts in
Boston in early 1985. If I remember correctly, they showed "Wife! Be
Like a Rose!" "Mother," "Late Chrysanthemums," "Floating Clouds,"
"Flowing," and "When a Woman Ascends the Stairs." I remember loving
all the films I saw. I thought they were completely accessible. If
there is a retrospective next year, I think it will open people's
eyes.
There was a series later that year at the Museum of Fine Arts, which I
missed. It showed a selection of films directed by Gosho, Hiroshi
Shimizu, Keisuke Kinoshita, Kajiro Yamamoto, and Tomotaka Tasaka. (I
might be mistaken in the details. I'm relying on a notebook I kept
from back then.)
Paul
17745
From: j_biel
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 10:20am
Subject: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
I'm probably the last one to know that the long scene with Anthony
Perkins and Katina Paxinou in "The Trial" which Welles had cut before
the premiere is available now on the French DVD edition. It has no
sound but the dialogue appears to match the original screenplay
reasonably closely.
Does anyone know what the story behind finding this missing scene is?
Has it always been just sitting around and everyone was just too lazy
to transfer it to video or was it an unexpected find? If so, what were
the circumstances? Where was it found and why was it saved? I'd be
grateful for any pointers.
- Jan Bielawski
17746
From: Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 1:07pm
Subject: Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
> I'd guess it was 1984. Rev. Edward Mark showed films at the
> Harvard-Epworth Church from the 1960's to the 1990's.
I had the benefit of this wonderful series from 1970-74 -- but then
spent around 16 years in Chicago (where I was at UC, but never met
Dave Kehr, but came close), then over 7 years in Georgia. By the time
I finally got back to Boston, the H-E series was past history. ;~{
> There was a small Naruse retrospective at the Museum of Fine Arts in
> Boston in early 1985. If I remember correctly, they showed "Wife! Be
> Like a Rose!" "Mother," "Late Chrysanthemums," "Floating Clouds,"
> "Flowing," and "When a Woman Ascends the Stairs." I remember loving
> all the films I saw. I thought they were completely accessible. If
> there is a retrospective next year, I think it will open people's
> eyes.
It's hard to pick favorites, but "Meshi" and "Sound of the Mountains"
currently are pretty firmly at the top of my Naruse list -- though all
the other films you mention (except "Flowing" -- which I have yet to
see) are all wonderful too. Two others that I think would be
indispensable to any retrospective would be "Horoki" (Wanderer's
Notebook) and "Lightning".
> There was a series later that year at the Museum of Fine Arts, which
> I missed. It showed a selection of films directed by Gosho, Hiroshi
> Shimizu, Keisuke Kinoshita, Kajiro Yamamoto, and Tomotaka Tasaka. (I
> might be mistaken in the details. I'm relying on a notebook I kept
> from back then.)
I got a late start on Japanese films -- owing to the fact that someone
mistakenly recommended "Rashomon" to me at an early age -- and it
prejudiced me against Japanese films for decades (and remains one of
my least favorite Kurosawa films). It could have been worse, if I had
seen Kinoshita's "Ballad of Narayama" first, I'd probably never have
watched another Japanese film as long as I lived. ;~}
MEK
17747
From: samfilms2003
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 3:19pm
Subject: Harvard-Epworth Church (Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent)
> > I'd guess it was 1984. Rev. Edward Mark showed films at the
> > Harvard-Epworth Church from the 1960's to the 1990's.
>
> I had the benefit of this wonderful series from 1970-74 --
I remember that fondly from when I lived in Boston in 1973.
I saw among other things my first Brakhage film ("Western History"),
a personal appearance and program by Robert Breer; Ed Mark also
screened "The Chronicle of Anna Magdelana Bach" Renoir's "Nana"
and "The Little Match Girl", Murnau's "Faust" and 2 or 3 of the Group
Dziga-Vertov films: "Vladimir and Rosa", "Pravda", maybe one more.
And that was all in one season. I know it's a church, but.. damn ! :-)
-Sam
17748
From: samfilms2003
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 3:26pm
Subject: Re: [Fwd: 11/13: Two Markopoulos Screenings at the Donnell Media Center in NYC]
>Two people I know who went to the
> "Temenos" festival in Greece this June, where many sections of "Eniaios"
> were shown, pronounced it perhaps their greatest film viewing experience
> ever.
Onw would this be P. Adams Sitney, who told me the same thing ?
Hope this isn't some cat out the bag, in any case his take on it will be
published in Artforum this fall.
(Meanwhile, there's a piece on it by Jeffery Stout in the current
Film Comment in case anyone interested missed this issue).
Two of his students I know who attended would, I'd say, agree on the
experience aspect but I'm not so sure as far as the films go. Which
makes for an odd dissonance. Neither had much if any previous
exposure to Markoppulos' work, although JS quotes Beavers to the
effect this, in his opinion should be no kind of inhibiting factor.
-Sam
17749
From: Craig Keller
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 4:21pm
Subject: Tanner on Tanner on DVD
I thought it likely that Criterion had already laid claim to a release for this, but apparently on -- November 23rd, 'Tanner on Tanner' hits DVD courtesy of Sundance Home Entertainment --
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00064AMAI/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_f/002-7641752-0849611
17750
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 5:56pm
Subject: Re: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
> The Nikkatsu DVD set contains two tiny fragments of two earlier films
> (total time for both -- under 2 minutes). It is my understanding that
> the three complete films, and these two snippets, are all that remains
> of Yamanaka's 20+ films.
From what I hear, existing prints of A POT WORTH A MILLION RYO aren't
complete. Haven't seen in it years, and can't recall if I felt any gaps.
> "Kochiyama" has been a bit of a struggle to come to grips with because I
> have had to work my way through it without either subtitles or a decent
> synopsis.
A subtitled print showed in NYC during the last decade.
> Well, my Naruse count is up to 17 or 18 so far -- but I think he may
> have 50 or more surviving films (far more than Ozu or Mizoguchi --
> comparable to Kinoshita). I like some more than others, but I haven't
> seen a bad film yet in the batch I've watched.
I think I've seen 25 or more Naruses, and only one (GINZA COSMETICS)
wasn't in that traveling series in the 80s, which was one of the most
eye-opening retrospectives I've ever experience. What little one can read
about Naruse in English gives the impression that many important films
were left out of the series. - Dan
17751
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 6:01pm
Subject: Tai Kato (Was: Japanese directors)
> "I've never heard of Kato Tai."
>
> Kato (surname) Tai is best known in the West for his entries in
> the "Red Peony" woman gambler series. He made a lot of period yakuza
> films and chambara (sword fight) pictures. The picture Makoto lists
> sounds like one of the yakuza movies but I don't know that English
> title.
There was actually a Tai Kato retro at Japan Society in NYC a few years
back. I liked one of the films (THE TALE OF WIND AND CLOUDS OF THE
SANADA CLAN), didn't enjoy a few others, and wound up having poor
attendance. - Dan
17752
From: Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 6:14pm
Subject: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> From what I hear, existing prints of A POT WORTH A MILLION RYO aren't
> complete. Haven't seen in it years, and can't recall if I felt any
gaps.
Well, there don't appear to be any glaring narrative gaps on the
Nikkatsu DVD. Our family enjoyed this immensely despite the lack of
subtitles. It was easy enough to follow (more or less).
> A subtitled print showed in NYC during the last decade.
I'll keep my hopes up for seeing a subtitled "Kochiyama" some day.
> I think I've seen 25 or more Naruses, and only one (GINZA COSMETICS)
> wasn't in that traveling series in the 80s, which was one of the most
> eye-opening retrospectives I've ever experience. What little one
can read
> about Naruse in English gives the impression that many important films
> were left out of the series.
The 80s retrospective sounds wonderful (from all I hear and read) --
so why didn't it manage to get Naruse more long-lasting (and wider)
recognition?
MEK
MEK
17753
From: George Robinson
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 6:16pm
Subject: Fw: [Godard] Aspect ratio in late Godard
From the Godard list.
I think we've been around this particular mulberry bush a few times already, but for what it's worth. . . .
g
I would no more teach children military
training than teach them arson or robbery
or assassination.
--Eugene V. Debs
----- Original Message -----
From: James Quandt
To: godard-topfive.com@l...
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 1:10 PM
Subject: [Godard] Aspect ratio in late Godard
This is a brief text regarding the question of aspect ratio in NOTRE MUSIQUE, excerpted from my article on the film for the Canadian magazine CinemaScope:
1.33 Mon beau souci – It might seem arcane technicality to many, but the matter of correct aspect ratio in late Godard is of urgent importance, no more so than in Notre Musique. When Cinematheque Ontario presented a comprehensive Godard retrospective two years ago, our projectionist, Kate MacKay, and I came to the conclusion, after experimenting with many of Godard’s late films, including Détective, Nouvelle Vague, Passion, For Ever Mozart, and even his contribution to the omnibus film Aria, that the prescribed aspect ratios (1.66 or, more often, 1.85) are incorrect; indeed, they do great violence by excising or scrunching Godard’s intuitively “open” compositions, which appear their natural selves only in the squarish classicism of the largely outmoded, even antique, 1.33 or Academy ratio. A lengthy argument for this controversial conclusion appears in an article about organizing the retrospective in the For Ever Godard anthology. Though empirical in its assertions, it is in the end based on an aesthetic hunch, and authority Colin MacCabe recently dismissed the possibility in conversation, justifiably asserting that no visual artist has been more precise about his compositions than Godard. MacCabe may very well be right; when we could not decide what ratio in which to show Éloge de l’amour, I sent a fax to Godard to inquire, and he verified the decreed 1.66, which nevertheless to my eyes made several compositions look compacted in – forgive the presumption! – unintended and unfortunate ways.
At least one of three screenings of Notre Musique I attended at Cannes looked to be projected in the 1.66 format, which, after all, is the aspect ratio prescribed in all the film’s technical and promotional material. However, Godard weighed in on the matter in a one page article in the June issue of Cahiers du cinéma, illustrating that the film must be shown in 1.33 by juxtaposing two images in three different formats (1.33, 1.66, 1.85) to show how damaging the two latter formats are. I would extend the result of Godard’s little leçon to far more than Notre Musique, as this is essentially the same process (though the images were projected in our experiments) by which we arrived at “this unnerving discovery, which suggests that some of late Godard has been shown and seen, therefore taught and analyzed, inexactly.”
James Quandt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Godard-topfive.com mailing list
Godard-topfive.com@l...
http://lists.topfive.com/listinfo.cgi/godard-topfive.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17754
From: Adam Hart
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 8:10pm
Subject: Vinterberg
Has anyone seen It's All About Love, the new Thomas Vinterberg
movie? I never quite reconciled what I liked about The Celebration
with what I disliked about it... never really made up my mind,
although I was definitely intrigued. And I was hoping that his new
film would help me do that, in a backhanded sort of way. But what
i've been hearing is so all over the map that I have no idea what
it's like, or even really what it's about. It's kind of a surprise
to me, but I'm looking forward to it and don't know when or if it
will come to Seattle.
17755
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 8:14pm
Subject: Lewis DVDs (was: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "j_biel" wrote:
Having finished viewing (for work, as always) the 9 new jerry
Lewis DVDs from Paramount, I can tell the group that there are
treasures there. Among the deleted scenes that are very
interesting, a Balin monologue from Patsy, two angles on Mrs.
Welenmelon (Helen Traubel, Ladies Man) singing an aria, a
funny "improv" between Welemelon and an offscreen Lewis
(listed as "rehearsal" footage), an amazing bit from Lewis's
stage show during Bellboy production (listed as "reharsal"
footage), bloopers for two sequences from Orderly where Lewis
is torturting a stoic "Tish" (Tashlin), more great deleted from
Ladies Man and Professor scenes (full scenes), very interesting
screen tests for Donna Butterworth for Jewels...and more that
I've forgotten.
The Steve-Lawrence/Lewis commentaries (full ones for
Cinderfella, Bellboy, Professor, Ladies and Jewels; truncated for
the rest, except Delinquent, which has zero extras) are
disappointing at first blush, but repay careful attention if you care
about Lewis's working methods, the showbiz milieu he mined
for his casts and bits (which SL knows very well) production
histories and so on. Start with Nutty Professor, which has a
wealth of extras, and reminds one again what a 5-star
masterpiece it is.
17756
From: peckinpah20012000
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 9:20pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs (was: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
>
>
> The Steve-Lawrence/Lewis commentaries (full ones for
> Cinderfella, Bellboy, Professor, Ladies and Jewels; truncated for
> the rest, except Delinquent, which has zero extras) are
> disappointing at first blush, but repay careful attention if you
care
> about Lewis's working methods, the showbiz milieu he mined
> for his casts and bits (which SL knows very well) production
> histories and so on. Start with Nutty Professor, which has a
> wealth of extras, and reminds one again what a 5-star
> masterpiece it is.
So far, I've only listened to THE BELLBOY audio-commentary. On
first hearing, I thought that Jerry was as uninformative as Ken
Loach doing the commentary for SWEET SIXTEEN. But, after getting
over Steve Lawrence's "Ed McMahon" guffaws to Jerry's "Johnny
Carson" comments, there are some informative passages such as Jerry
getting all those night-club comedians to do cameos since they were
already in Miami so he did not have to pay them airfare.
On another issue, should one attempt a Jerry Lewis class as an
antidote to November 2, what would the group suggest as ideal
choices? In THE FAMILY JEWELS, the only part which works for me is
the "Jerry Lewis airlines" segment since it resembles the small
plane flight from St. Louis to Carbondale which no self-respecting
employer ever inflicts on job candidates. I'd also be interested in
learning about reactions to later Lewis films such as SLAPSTICK OF
ANOTHER KIND and FUNNY BONES as well as ideas concerning key Martin-
Lewis films.
Tony Williams
17757
From: thebradstevens
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 9:30pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs (was: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
"what would the group suggest as ideal choices?"
After initially detesting it, I've grown to adore SMORGASBORD, which
seems to me the 'purest' of Lewis' films.
17758
From:
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 4:34pm
Subject: Re: Re: Lewis DVDs (was: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
Tony Williams wrote:
>I'd also be interested in
>learning about reactions to later Lewis films such as SLAPSTICK OF
>ANOTHER KIND and FUNNY BONES as well as ideas concerning key Martin-
>Lewis films.
Of course, I'd want to make the distinction between films Lewis appeared in
and genuine "Jerry Lewis films" - i.e., films directed by Lewis. Among the
latter group, I love just about everything but my absolute favorite is "The
Ladies Man," which I consider to be one of the great films of all time. Among the
later works, I continue to be a partisan. I think "Hardly Working," "Cracking
Up," and his short film "Boy" are all great.
It seems to me that Scorsese's "The King of Comedy" is the best of the later
films Lewis appeared in but didn't direct. "Slapstick of Another Kind" is
based upon one of my favorite Kurt Vonnegut novels, but I remember it as being
fairly awful when I saw it years ago.
Peter
17759
From:
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 4:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: Lewis DVDs (was: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
Brad Stevens wrote:
>After initially detesting it, I've grown to adore SMORGASBORD, which
>seems to me the 'purest' of Lewis' films.
Yes, yes, yes! "Smorgasbord" AKA "Cracking Up" is absolutely exhilarating if
one forgets about a forward moving plot line and allows oneself to enjoy the
pleasure of each segment of the film and the overriding pleasure of Lewis'
framing (to echo Dave Kehr writing about "The Patsy"). The wonderful "Hardly
Working" also has this quality, though I think Lewis probably wanted to get the
audience a bit more emotionally invested in Bo Hooper than he did in the
character he plays in "Cracking Up."
Peter
17760
From: Craig Keller
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 10:04pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
>an amazing bit from Lewis's
>stage show during Bellboy production (listed as "reharsal"
>footage),
Yes -- the business with Jerry and the cane would be (at the very least) worth the price of a DVD alone.
craig.
17761
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Nov 9, 2004 10:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: Lewis DVDs (was: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
--- peckinpah20012000
wrote:
I'd also
> be interested in
> learning about reactions to later Lewis films such
> as SLAPSTICK OF
> ANOTHER KIND and FUNNY BONES as well as ideas
> concerning key Martin-
> Lewis films.
The first is an atrocity, the second a
near-masterpiece.
The key late Lewis movie is, of course, THE KING OF
COMEDY.
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com
17762
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 0:34am
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs (was: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "peckinpah20012000"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > The Steve-Lawrence/Lewis commentaries (full ones for
> > Cinderfella, Bellboy, Professor, Ladies and Jewels; truncated
for
> > the rest, except Delinquent, which has zero extras) are
> > disappointing at first blush, but repay careful attention if you
> care
> > about Lewis's working methods, the showbiz milieu he
mined
> > for his casts and bits (which SL knows very well) production
> > histories and so on. Start with Nutty Professor, which has a
> > wealth of extras, and reminds one again what a 5-star
> > masterpiece it is.
>
> So far, I've only listened to THE BELLBOY audio-commentary.
On
> first hearing, I thought that Jerry was as uninformative as Ken
> Loach doing the commentary for SWEET SIXTEEN. But, after
getting
> over Steve Lawrence's "Ed McMahon" guffaws to Jerry's
"Johnny
> Carson" comments, there are some informative passages
such as Jerry
> getting all those night-club comedians to do cameos since
they were
> already in Miami so he did not have to pay them airfare.
>
> On another issue, should one attempt a Jerry Lewis class as
an
> antidote to November 2, what would the group suggest as
ideal
> choices?
Nutty Professor is profound, funny, magical, beautiful. We know it
so well we tend to forget, but it's the convincer for any Jer-virgins
out there. And if you rent the DVD, extras abound.
After that, Ladies Man (most impressive), Patsy (funniest),
Bellboy (most magical).
17763
From: Adrian Martin
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:51am
Subject: BIG RED ONE: Hoberman's assessment
From the latest VILLAGE VOICE, the conclusion of J. Hoberman on THE BIG RED
ONE (reconstructed version):
"The Big Red One is certainly a testament to Fuller's tenacity, but recent
raves notwithstanding, it's no masterpiece. The performances can be
execrable and the timing is off; the movie suffers from its low budget, but
even more from the self-consciousness that afflicted Fuller's work after
Dead Pigeon on Beethoven Street. (The real gem of his late career is the
astonishing White Dog, made the following year.) The Big Red One isn't even
Fuller's greatest war film. Of those, I'd rank it fourth‹but that's not half
bad. "
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0445/hoberman2.php
Comments, anyone? (In Australia, we have yet to see this version of the
film.)
Adrian
17764
From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:04am
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs (was: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
> Nutty Professor is profound, funny, magical, beautiful. We know
it
> so well we tend to forget, but it's the convincer for any
Jer-virgins
> out there.
It's screening in Chicago on Thursday. I'll be there to take
punches for Bill. Just order me an Alaskan polar bear heater.
Gabe
17765
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:05am
Subject: Re: BIG RED ONE: Hoberman's assessment
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Adrian Martin
wrote:
> From the latest VILLAGE VOICE, the conclusion of J.
Hoberman on THE BIG RED
> ONE (reconstructed version):
>
> "The Big Red One is certainly a testament to Fuller's tenacity,
but recent
> raves notwithstanding, it's no masterpiece.
I disagree. I like the late films, but I may have seen them more
than J Hoberman. Fuller was a soundstage director who had to
adjust to locations, starting w. House of Bamboo. Romanticism
about location shooting aside, the cherry blossom scenes and
street scenes in that let the air out of a style built on
claustrophobia, despite some nice sets I assume were built at
Fox. He got it together in Crimson Kimono, also half location,
and was forced to do all-location starting with Dead Pigeon,
except for White Dog. The soundstage scene (w. Marshall
TRhompson as Sam) in that film expresses Sam's nostalgia for
the days of studio filmmaking and is -- surprise! - the best scene
in the film. But White Dog, Red One, Thieves After Dark, Street of
No Return (shot in Sintra) and Madonna and the Dragon are
great films, despite the loss of control from location shooting.
17766
From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:19am
Subject: Re: BIG RED ONE: Hoberman's assessment
His criticism of the "poussez" scene notwithstanding,
Hoberman is wrong to compare the greatness of Fuller's earlier
war films to THE BIG RED ONE. Never in those films would there
be a scene of Mark Hamill firing seemingly endless shots into a
concentration camp oven. Or the same attention to children -- the
girl who offers the soldiers gifts, the Italian boy with his dead
mother, the Jewish boy at the end. Or any number of other minor
details which are more apparent in the new version. It's arguably
Fuller's stab at "art", and if you want to say WHITE DOG, from the
following year, is more successful seen as part of Fuller's
ouevre, that's fine, but THE BIG RED ONE is a unique experience
worthy of being judged on its own.
Gabe
17767
From: Aaron Graham
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:19am
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs (was: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
> Tony Williams wrote:
>
> >I'd also be interested in
> >learning about reactions to later Lewis films such as SLAPSTICK OF
> >ANOTHER KIND and FUNNY BONES as well as ideas concerning key
Martin-
> >Lewis films.
Speaking of later films, his "One More Time" (the only film Lewis
directed, but didn't appear in) is being released to dvd along with
the other Lawford/David Jr. picture "Salt and Pepper". What's the
consensus on that one?
I picked up all of the Lewis dvds, but have only had the chance to
watch "The Nutty Professor". I'm glad to see that Lewis is starting
to unload his vast amounts of stored footage, with dvd being the
perfect format for such untapped wonders of deleted scenes and other
gems.
Also just watched his first "serious" performance from his TV
version of "The Jazz Singer" (1959). It's a bit of an oddity, but
I seem to recall Frank Tashlin mentioning he liked it in
Bogdanovich's "Who The Devil Made It".
-Aaron
17768
From: Andy Rector
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:07am
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs (was: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
> On another issue, should one attempt a Jerry Lewis class as an
> antidote to November 2, what would the group suggest as ideal
> choices? In THE FAMILY JEWELS, the only part which works for me is
> the "Jerry Lewis airlines" segment since it resembles the small
> plane flight from St. Louis to Carbondale which no self-respecting
> employer ever inflicts on job candidates. I'd also be interested
in
> learning about reactions to later Lewis films such as SLAPSTICK OF
> ANOTHER KIND and FUNNY BONES as well as ideas concerning key
Martin-
> Lewis films.
>
> Tony Williams
The early scene in Family Jewels with the first Uncle's heroic
commentary counterpointed by the unheroic visuals (and especially
the moment when Jerry holds up the swastika flag--the idiot
understands, or fails to understand, himself historically) is as
great as anything Lewis has done on a formal level. The poolroom
scene (sound of popcorn bag, Jerry's spastic billiard playing) is
hilarious. It's intercut with the backwards motion military
marching, and it seems to me that Jerry's verbal-human imitation on
the soundtrack of a tape playing backwards rather than an actual
playback in reverse is key to Jerry's idea of comedy/form! It is
phenomenal.
yours,
andy
-andy
17769
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:37am
Subject: Re: Re: Lewis DVDs (was: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
--- Aaron Graham wrote:
>
> Speaking of later films, his "One More Time" (the
> only film Lewis
> directed, but didn't appear in) is being released to
> dvd along with
> the other Lawford/David Jr. picture "Salt and
> Pepper". What's the
> consensus on that one?
>
It's really quite teriffic. Sammy plays Jerry.
And that's really all you need to know.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
17770
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:19am
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs (was: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Graham"
wrote:
> Speaking of later films, his "One More Time" (the only film Lewis
> directed, but didn't appear in) is being released to dvd along with
> the other Lawford/David Jr. picture "Salt and Pepper". What's the
> consensus on that one?
I love One More Time -- great to hear it's coming out on DVD, so more
people can see it. It's a Dean and Jerry w. Lawford as Dean and Davis
doing a very good Jerry. An essential part of the oeuvre.
> -Aaron
17771
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:22am
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs (was: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rector"
wrote:
> The early scene in Family Jewels with the first Uncle's heroic
> commentary counterpointed by the unheroic visuals (and especially
> the moment when Jerry holds up the swastika flag--the idiot
> understands, or fails to understand, himself historically) is as
> great as anything Lewis has done on a formal level. The poolroom
> scene (sound of popcorn bag, Jerry's spastic billiard playing) is
> hilarious. It's intercut with the backwards motion military
> marching, and it seems to me that Jerry's verbal-human imitation on
> the soundtrack of a tape playing backwards rather than an actual
> playback in reverse is key to Jerry's idea of comedy/form! It is
> phenomenal.
>
> yours,
> andy
And let's not forget the brief but brilliant Clown Who Hates Children
scene, which has always looked to me like a sketch for The Day the
Clown Cried. If so, that movie must be awesome, because Uncle Everett
is right up there with Buddy Love as Jerry's greatest creation.
17772
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:28am
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs (was: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Gabe Klinger"
wrote:
>
>
> > Nutty Professor is profound, funny, magical, beautiful. We know
> it
> > so well we tend to forget, but it's the convincer for any
> Jer-virgins
> > out there.
>
> It's screening in Chicago on Thursday. I'll be there to take
> punches for Bill. Just order me an Alaskan polar bear heater.
>
> Speaking of taking punches, the bartender originally shattered into
pieces after his brush with the Alaskan polar bear heater, and Lewis
filmed the pieces. Not one of the deleted scenes on the DVD,
unfortunately!
17773
From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:28am
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
I've always been intrigued by the deleted scenes in CINDERFELLA.
Tashlin was very unhappy that Lewis cut some major gag sequences,
slanting the film towards sentiment. And watching the film there
seems to be a yawning chasm where the polo match sequence ought to
be. Any word of these sequences being made available, ever?
And what about Lewis' all-star home-movie spoofs? Do we have to wait
until everybody is dead?
17774
From: thebradstevens
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:52am
Subject: Versions of Sam Fuller's late films (Was Re: BIG RED ONE)
"I like the late films"
Bill, do you have any information about how the late Fullers were
recut by their producers/distributors? In his autobiography, Sam
mentions that STREET OF NO RETURN was reedited, but doesn't go into
specifics. And Joe Dante recalls having recut WHITE DOG for the
producer - Sam doesn't mention that at all in his book. I think that
the absolutely sublime TINIKLING OR "THE MADONNA AND THE DRAGON"
might have been cut as well: I've seen a still which shows Sam Fuller
(who plays a newspaper editor in the film) talking to Jennifer Beals
(who plays a reporter) in the back of a car. That isn't in the
version of the film which I saw (in English with Japanese subtitles),
but in the opening scene, Beals does mention having had a
conversation with her editor in the car on the way from the airport.
Someone should do a DVD of DEAD PIGEON ON BEETHOVENSTRASSE which
includes both the English and German versions. I saw the German
edition (which is actually an episode of the series TATORT), and it's
completely different, with a different choice of scenes, different
structure, different takes, etc.
Incidentally, the old UK video and television prints of DEAD PIGEON
don't include the end credits sequence, which shows Fuller and the
cast at a carnival.
17775
From: thebradstevens
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 0:03pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
"And what about Lewis' all-star home-movie spoofs? Do we have to wait
until everybody is dead?"
I guess that, with the recent passing of Janet Leigh, pretty much
everyone except Lewis is dead. But these shorts would make a great
DVD - I saw some clips from them in a documentary about Lewis, and
they look wonderful (though, needless to say, very amateurish). Lewis
actually staged elaborate premieres at his home for each of these
short films, including an award ceremony (during which his latest
short won all the prizes) - he even filmed these events, which would
make terrific extras for any potential DVD. One of these premiere
films shows Jerry and Dean Martin standing outside Jerry's house
greeting the guests: when the head of Paramount (I think)
unexpectedly arrives, a surprised Jerry turns to Dean and says "Wow!
He must have a car!".
17776
From: Adrian Martin
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:26pm
Subject: re: Welles TRIAL scene?
Just a reminder to anyone who can help: Jan's question about THE TRIAL (I
too am interested to learn about this) went unanswered, I believe, before
that thread morphed into a celebration of Jerry Lewis !!!
Jan's question was:
"... the long scene with Anthony Perkins and Katina Paxinou in "The Trial"
which Welles had cut before the premiere is available now on the French DVD
edition. It has no sound but the dialogue appears to match the original
screenplay reasonably closely. Does anyone know what the story behind
finding this missing scene is? Has it always been just sitting around and
everyone was just too lazy to transfer it to video or was it an unexpected
find? If so, what were the circumstances? Where was it found and why was it
saved?"
Adrian (keeper of the lost threads)
17777
From: thebradstevens
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:14pm
Subject: Re: Welles TRIAL scene?
I'd assume that it's just been sitting there all these years. It was
certainly Welles' choice to cut the scene. In THIS IS ORSON WELLES,
he tells Peter Bogdanovich that "I ran the picture the day before it
was released - it was the only time I ever saw it from beginning to
end. And it just gave me time to take out the scene with Katina
Paxinou".
I haven't actually seen this footage yet, but I recall reading a
transcript of the dialogue, which includes a discussion about why the
computer has a female name. That certainly confirms my reading of the
film, which is that Joseph K is trapped in a nighmare of
incomprehensible femininity (which is to say a femininty that is
incomprehensible when seen from a masculine perspective).
17778
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:27pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "cairnsdavid1967"
wrote:
>
> I've always been intrigued by the deleted scenes in CINDERFELLA.
> Tashlin was very unhappy that Lewis cut some major gag sequences,
> slanting the film towards sentiment. And watching the film there
> seems to be a yawning chasm where the polo match sequence ought to
> be. Any word of these sequences being made available, ever?
Not on the DVD. And of course JL says in the commentary that it was
Tashlin who insisted on pushing "the Kid" into new areas of sentiment.
>
> And what about Lewis' all-star home-movie spoofs? Do we have to
wait
> until everybody is dead?
I believe some of these are already available in France in a mammoth
documentary by Robert Benayoun.
17779
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:42pm
Subject: Versions of Sam Fuller's late films (Was Re: BIG RED ONE)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "thebradstevens"
wrote:
>
> "I like the late films"
>
> Bill, do you have any information about how the late Fullers were
> recut by their producers/distributors? In his autobiography, Sam
> mentions that STREET OF NO RETURN was reedited, but doesn't go into
> specifics.
Bral, who was an alcoholic, took the film away from Sam and worked
with a team of about ten editors for a year. On my most recent
viewing, I was able for the first time to get past the inelegance of
the cutting and just appreciate the remarkable beauty of the film.
And Joe Dante recalls having recut WHITE DOG for the
> producer - Sam doesn't mention that at all in his book.
Joe was called in by Jon Davison to help finish the thing in time. He
and Jon were 100% Fuller partisans, not "re-cutters." Joe says Sam
stayed away and let him work. He offers interesting insights into the
way Sam cut -- for example, because of the short schedules, he often
just shot a master, and the editor would have to blow up a master
optically to pull a closeup. Hence the grainy closeups in a film like
China Gate. But White Dog isn't a recut film -- it's Sam's film, made
in collaboration with loving young admirers.
I think that
> the absolutely sublime TINIKLING OR "THE MADONNA AND THE DRAGON"
> might have been cut as well: I've seen a still which shows Sam
Fuller
> (who plays a newspaper editor in the film) talking to Jennifer
Beals
> (who plays a reporter) in the back of a car. That isn't in the
> version of the film which I saw (in English with Japanese
subtitles),
> but in the opening scene, Beals does mention having had a
> conversation with her editor in the car on the way from the airport.
I'll ask Christa. To me the most amazing moment in that film is a
left-right pan over the harbor to the city that continues as a left
right pan past Beals leaning on a car to the garbage dump, near the
end. It sets up a pantomomime scene where Beal's ex- gives a garbage
kid money to lead an attack on Christa's casino. A bit later, two
pantomime shots of the garbage dump as the kid rallies his forces
frame an stunning left-right heluicopter hot of the streets of Manila
on election day filled woith millions of people. The first two shots
that are just jammed together function as a kind of super-Fuller-
tracking-shot linking the City and what I call the Zone, the hidden
parts of the City in Fuller films, especially the late ones, where
the Zone, as a place for human or animal refuse, is increasingly
assimilated to a concentration camp. I agree that Madonna is a
sublime film -- and the "self-consciousness" of something like that
pasted-up tracking shot, which is more draing than anything in
Godard, frankly doesn't bother me at all.
> Someone should do a DVD of DEAD PIGEON ON BEETHOVENSTRASSE which
> includes both the English and German versions. I saw the German
> edition (which is actually an episode of the series TATORT), and
it's
> completely different, with a different choice of scenes, different
> structure, different takes, etc.
I'd love to see that.
>
> Incidentally, the old UK video and television prints of DEAD PIGEON
> don't include the end credits sequence, which shows Fuller and the
> cast at a carnival.
I have seen that, and it's important because of the amazing scene of
Carnival at the end, which is made up of shots "stolen" on the a
Plaza in Cologne, where that Carnival has been held before Lent since
the Middle Ages. He even includes a high angle shot of the plaza
showing that the Carnival takes place on the public place in front of
the town's great cathedral, as it did in ancient times. He just threw
his actors in the middle and stole shots. The eruption of Carnival at
the beginning of Sam's late period (which includes Red One and White
Dog) is anpther piece of self-consciousness, I suppose -- one that
makes visible the determinations of the earlier films: ie all those
films made on one set, a la Park Row, where all classes and
conditions of society collide and commingle, as in what Bakhtin
calls "the scene of Carnival."
Hoberman is Sarris's student, and for Sarris, Sam was a "primitive."
It's too bad both of them did get to spend time hanging out at the
Shack (the house on Mullholland, a regular haunt of LA film lovers
and filmmakers for years). Farber too, however great his article on
Sam, would have quickly learned that the mind of the guy who mad
Shock Corridor and Steel Helmet -- a conscious remake of Lost Patrol -
- wasn't "an unthinking morass at best." He was ALWAYS self-aware!
17780
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:44pm
Subject: Re: Welles TRIAL scene?
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "thebradstevens"
wrote:
>
> I haven't actually seen this footage yet, but I recall reading a
> transcript of the dialogue, which includes a discussion about why
the
> computer has a female name. That certainly confirms my reading of
the
> film, which is that Joseph K is trapped in a nighmare of
> incomprehensible femininity (which is to say a femininty that is
> incomprehensible when seen from a masculine perspective).
That's why After Hours, one of Scorsese's best, is a remake of The
Trial -- consciously so. The Welles film was in rotation on cable
during the production of After Hours, and Scorsese watched it a lot.
17781
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: Welles TRIAL scene?
--- hotlove666 wrote:
>
> That's why After Hours, one of Scorsese's best, is a
> remake of The
> Trial -- consciously so. The Welles film was in
> rotation on cable
> during the production of After Hours, and Scorsese
> watched it a lot.
>
To a large degree that's true. In fact "Before the
Law" is enacted word for word at the entrance to the
club in the film's last quarter.
But I'm not at all sure what Welles would have done
with Rosanna Arquette.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com
17782
From: thebradstevens
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:17pm
Subject: Versions of Sam Fuller's late films (Was Re: BIG RED ONE)
"Bral, who was an alcoholic, took the film away from Sam and worked
with a team of about ten editors for a year."
Wouldn't he still have a copy of Sam's cut?
"Joe was called in by Jon Davison to help finish the thing in time.
He and Jon were 100% Fuller partisans, not "re-cutters.""
In THE VIDEO WATCHDOG BOOK, Joe Dante is quoted as saying "I did see
Sam Fuller's original cut of WHITE DOG, which my friend Jon Davison
produced, because I was editing it". That certainly implies there was
an 'original' cut which Joe reedited.
17783
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:18pm
Subject: Re: Welles TRIAL scene?
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- hotlove666 wrote:
>
>
> >
> > That's why After Hours, one of Scorsese's best, is a
> > remake of The
> > Trial -- consciously so. The Welles film was in
> > rotation on cable
> > during the production of After Hours, and Scorsese
> > watched it a lot.
> >
> To a large degree that's true. In fact "Before the
> Law" is enacted word for word at the entrance to the
> club in the film's last quarter.
>
> But I'm not at all sure what Welles would have done
> with Rosanna Arquette.
Surrender, Dorothy!
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
> www.yahoo.com
17784
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:20pm
Subject: Versions of Sam Fuller's late films (Was Re: BIG RED ONE)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "thebradstevens"
wrote:
>
> "I like the late films"
>
> Bill, do you have any information about how the late Fullers were
> recut by their producers/distributors?
A note from Christa, who has also read the Hoberman piece:
I don't remember JOE DANTE coming in for the cut (White Dog). Just
remember Bernie Gribble who was very good and Sam was pleased with
him. Since I like and trust Joe and Jon Davison, you are probably
right.
On THE MADONNA AND THE DRAGON there was not much cutting---it's a pity
the scene of Jennifer Beals and Sam in the car was cut----they are
cute acting together--but there is still the one in the office that
is left.
I think that Manny Farber and Andrew Sarris meant "primitive" in a
positive sense. Like one daring to go back to the ORIGINS (UR).
17785
From: Robert Keser
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:35pm
Subject: Kato
I've lost track of who was looking for information about Kato
(Paul?), but some might be interested that the Time Out Film Guide
has short reviews of six of his films: Blood of Revenge, Cruel Story
of the Shogunate's Downfall, History of a Man's Face, Red Peony
Gambler, Sasuke and His Comedians, and I, the Executioner. About the
latter, Tony Rayns writes that it is "shattering" and "up there with
Oshima's Violence at Noon and Imamura's Vengeance Is Mine".
(This is in the 11th edition of the Time Out FG, from 2003).
--Robert Keser
17786
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:41pm
Subject: Versions of Sam Fuller's late films (Was Re: BIG RED ONE)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "thebradstevens"
wrote:
>
> "Bral, who was an alcoholic, took the film away from Sam and worked
> with a team of about ten editors for a year."
>
> Wouldn't he still have a copy of Sam's cut?
Possibly. I asked Christa and got no reply. It's worth investigating.
Howeevr, Sam's Red One workprint didn't survive. If it had, Richard
would've had a template to work from.
>
> "Joe was called in by Jon Davison to help finish the thing in time.
> He and Jon were 100% Fuller partisans, not "re-cutters.""
>
> In THE VIDEO WATCHDOG BOOK, Joe Dante is quoted as saying "I did
see
> Sam Fuller's original cut of WHITE DOG, which my friend Jon Davison
> produced, because I was editing it". That certainly implies there
was
> an 'original' cut which Joe reedited.
I asked Joe directly about all this, and I don't think he's lying.
That source may have garbled it. He was very precise. If there was an
earlier cut, it was a rough cut that would've been about 3 hours
long. Of course it would be fun to see it, but unless EVERYONE is
lying to me, Sam loved and approved the release version, except of
course for Paramount's dingbat decision to cut the church scene,
which Mike Schlesinger eventually restored before being fired for
having greenlit It's All True.
17787
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:51pm
Subject: Versions of Sam Fuller's late films (Was Re: BIG RED ONE)
I haven't seen the reconstruction yet. I was surprised that Tag
Gallagher gave "The Big Red One" only one star:
http://www.filmint.nu/netonly/eng/fuller.htm
Maybe the low rating reflects how the producers ruined Fuller's cut?
Paul
17788
From: Robert Keser
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:53pm
Subject: Daney book
While looking up something entirely different, I ran across an
announcement that Paul Douglas Grant, a student at the New School,
has received a Fulbright grant for 2004-5 to research a book
called "Serge Daney: Return of the Cinephile". He's apparently at
the Université de Paris right now.
Just wondering if anyone knows about Grant and/or this project.
--Robert Keser
17789
From: Craig Keller
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:12pm
Subject: Godard at Le Havre
Pre-emptive apologies for the cross-post.
From today's Liberation -- the first paragraph follows. The full piece can be read at: http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=252820
Reportage
Godard fusionnel au Volcan
Invité de la scène du Havre, il a présenté les films de sa «famille» et partagé ses visions de cinéma.
Par Natalie CASTETZ
mercredi 10 novembre 2004 (Liberation - 06:00)
Le Havre correspondance
«Qu'est-ce qu'une image ?» Samedi soir au Havre, Jean-Luc Godard, le cigare à la main, l'écharpe rouge au cou, et son ami l'écrivain palestinien Elias Sanbar, sont calés dans leur chaise, sur scène. Au-dessus d'eux, l'affiche de Notre musique. Au public qui s'est engouffré en masse dans la salle de la scène nationale du Volcan pour les écouter et converser, Godard dit d'abord : «La démocratie, c'est des maîtres qui parlent et des gens qui écoutent. Moi, je préférerais être de l'autre côté, et vous ici, à vous écouter.» Rires dans la salle. «On vient pour la bête», déplorait peu avant le cinéaste, se plaignant que, le plus souvent, c'était lui et non ses films que l'on venait voir. N'empêche. Plus d'une heure durant, les deux compères ont conversé. De «rapport à la réalité», de la «bonne image», du refus par les Palestiniens du statut de «victimes». Et de Picabia, Deleuze, Foucault, Jankélévitch. Les critiques de cinéma ont été critiqués, la «tristesse du cinéma» évoquée.
17790
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:55pm
Subject: Re: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
> As
> Michael noted, Gosho has about 150 films in his filmography, though
> only a few of his 1930s movies have been shown in the West.
For some reason, I've been able to see six 30s Goshos (THE NEIGHBOR'S WIFE
AND MINE, THE BRIDE TALKS IN HER SLEEP, THE BRIDEGROOM TALKS IN HIS SLEEP,
CARESS, BURDEN OF YOUTH, and WOMAN OF THE MIST) and only three later ones
(WHERE CHIMNEYS ARE SEEN, FIREFLIES, and the extraordinary YELLOW CROW).
My feeling is that Gosho's sensibility seems a little coarser in the 30s
films than in the 50s ones: there's something a little strenuous about the
depiction of character quirks and the framing of this depiction as a
portrait of humanity at large. I do rather like WOMAN OF THE MIST, though
not as much as CHIMNEYS and YELLOW CROW.
> In short, we need a Gosho
> retrospective.
I'm with you. Too bad so many Japanese archival prints are in bad shape.
A director I'd really like to see a retro of is Tomu Uchida. What little
I've seen gives me the feeling that he might be a major dude. - Dan
17791
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:57pm
Subject: Re: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
> For some reason, I've been able to see six 30s Goshos (THE NEIGHBOR'S WIFE
> AND MINE, THE BRIDE TALKS IN HER SLEEP, THE BRIDEGROOM TALKS IN HIS SLEEP,
> CARESS, BURDEN OF YOUTH, and WOMAN OF THE MIST)
Correction: that title is BURDEN OF LIFE. Not a favorite of mine, though.
- Dan
17792
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent
> There was a small Naruse retrospective at the Museum of Fine Arts in
> Boston in early 1985. If I remember correctly, they showed "Wife! Be
> Like a Rose!" "Mother," "Late Chrysanthemums," "Floating Clouds,"
> "Flowing," and "When a Woman Ascends the Stairs." I remember loving
> all the films I saw. I thought they were completely accessible. If
> there is a retrospective next year, I think it will open people's
> eyes.
>
> There was a series later that year at the Museum of Fine Arts, which I
> missed. It showed a selection of films directed by Gosho, Hiroshi
> Shimizu, Keisuke Kinoshita, Kajiro Yamamoto, and Tomotaka Tasaka.
That series showed in LA in early 1985, a little before the Naruse retro.
Several of the early sound Gosho films I've seen were in it.
You probably got a reduced version of the Naruse retro, alas. I'm sure we
saw 25 or so films in LA. - Dan
17793
From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:04pm
Subject: Re: Godard at Le Havre
His film choices contained some favorites (Level Five, Saltimbank) and
some that I've really been wanting to see for some time now
(Demi-tarif, the latest Moullet - wasn't that supposed to come out on
DVD from Gemini?). It seems that he and Gorin must be on similar
wavelengths these days - could a reunion be possible?
Jonathan Takagi
17794
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:05pm
Subject: Harvard-Epworth, Naruse (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
>> I'd guess it was 1984. Rev. Edward Mark showed films at the
>> Harvard-Epworth Church from the 1960's to the 1990's.
>
> I had the benefit of this wonderful series from 1970-74
We seem to have a lot of Harvard-Epworth veterans here - I was a regular
between 1972 and 1976. And I think Richard Porton attended also.
Anyone know where the good Reverend Ed Mark is these days? I visited the
site in 2001 when I was last in Boston, and I believe it was a Korean
church.
> though all
> the other films you mention (except "Flowing" -- which I have yet to
> see)
It's one of the very best, I think.
> Two others that I think would be
> indispensable to any retrospective would be "Horoki" (Wanderer's
> Notebook) and "Lightning".
Wow, where did you see WANDERER'S NOTEBOOK? LIGHTNING is very groovy,
wonderfully subtle. - Dan
17795
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:07pm
Subject: Re: Harvard-Epworth Church (Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent)
> I remember that fondly from when I lived in Boston in 1973.
>
> I saw among other things my first Brakhage film ("Western History"),
> a personal appearance and program by Robert Breer; Ed Mark also
> screened "The Chronicle of Anna Magdelana Bach" Renoir's "Nana"
> and "The Little Match Girl", Murnau's "Faust" and 2 or 3 of the Group
> Dziga-Vertov films: "Vladimir and Rosa", "Pravda", maybe one more.
> And that was all in one season. I know it's a church, but.. damn ! :-)
I think we overlapped, Sam. I still have all my old Harvard-Epworth
schedules... - Dan
17796
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
> The 80s retrospective sounds wonderful (from all I hear and read) --
> so why didn't it manage to get Naruse more long-lasting (and wider)
> recognition?
Believe it or not, it did help. Before that, Naruse was very obscure
indeed in the US. After the retro, people began routinely referring to
him as one of the Japanese old masters, though I agree that he deserves
even more acclaim: I consider him the greatest Japanese director. - Dan
17797
From: thebradstevens
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:11pm
Subject: Versions of Sam Fuller's late films (Was Re: BIG RED ONE)
"On THE MADONNA AND THE DRAGON there was not much cutting"
Which I guess means there was some cutting.
Is it possible that some of the footage Sam shot for RIATA was used
in THE DEADLY TRACKERS? In THE THIRD FACE, Sam mentions that "Warner
Brothers sold all my footage to an Egyptian producer named Fouad
Said. Said finished the movie in Mexico with another director,
releasing it as THE DEADLY TRACKERS".
And has anyone seen THE MEANEST MEN IN THE WEST (1976)? It consists
of two episodes of THE VIRGINIAN, one of them by Sam. But the two
episodes have been cut together as if they were part of the same
story, and combined with tons of newly shot footage that links the
two, originally unconnected narratives. Much of this new footage
features actors standing in for actors in the original TV segments
(the fact that the new actors look nothing like those in the TV
segments appears to have bothered no one). There is also a brand new
prologue (I think 15 or 20 minutes) in which Michael Conrad (from
Melville's UN FLIC) appears. I'd love to know who directed this
stuff - only the directors of the two TV segments are credited.
The amount of footage from Sam's segment (which was made in 1962) is
actually pretty minimal - maybe 10 or 15 minutes. In its original
form, Sam's VIRGINIAN episode runs 75 minutes, and is a remarkable
achievement. I'd love to see Sam's other TV segments.
17798
From: Craig Keller
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:22pm
Subject: Re: Godard at Le Havre
>His film choices contained some favorites (Level Five, Saltimbank) and
>some that I've really been wanting to see for some time now
>(Demi-tarif, the latest Moullet - wasn't that supposed to come out on
>DVD from Gemini?). It seems that he and Gorin must be on similar
>wavelengths these days - could a reunion be possible?
Someone wrote the other day about Godard inviting Gorin to Le Havre -- unless I'm misreading the part towards the end of that article in which the latter's films are mentioned, Gorin was actually present, -- it mentions he was on the stage and poked fun at himself as "lamento calviniste" during the Dziga-Vertov Group days. Unless I'm reading that wrong and Godard was making fun of himself; or, Gorin was present, and poking fun at Godard as "lamento calviniste." My French, not so good.
I was also quite fascinated by Godard's film picks -- during the interview with JLG in the Cahiers around the time of Cannes, I remember him mentioning Le Besco's film during his comments about films that, projected, themselves project, but didn't seem to grant Le Besco's film such a rarefied status. Again, I could have just been misreading what I was reading.
Anyone know anything about a release of 'Demi-Tarif' on DVD any time soon? It played at the Tribeca Film Festival in the States -- had I known soon enough, I absolutely would have attended, but it screened to virtually no buzz whatsoever.
The other big news from that article, of course, is the fact that a film Godard had intended to show this past weekend as a short, he decided to hold back on -- for the purpose of transforming it into his next feature-length instead, for which he plans returning to Le Havre three years from now to present, upon its completion. Title: 'Vrai-Faux passeport.'
craig.
17799
From: Fred Camper
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:50pm
Subject: Re: Harvard-Epworth Church (Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent)
I'm not sure when Rev. Ed Mark started showing films, but I think it was
after I moved to Cambridge in 1964, only a year or two after. Possibly
he could have started even earlier. He as an assistant minister then.
Anyway he came to some of our shows at the MIT Film Society and
respected what we were doing a great deal, and was very kind to me. He
also understood that a few of the things we showed he couldn't show at
his church due to their sexual content. But he ran a very wide-ranging
program for many years, including avant-garde films, older Hollywood
films, and foreign films. I think this was a case of a minister who was
also a cinephile. He retired, I don't remember exactly when, perhaps a
decade ago, and that's when their film series stopped, I believe. I know
I stopped getting their schedules.
Fred Camper
17800
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:20pm
Subject: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
"For some reason, I've been able to see six 30s Goshos (THE
NEIGHBOR'S WIFE AND MINE, THE BRIDE TALKS IN HER SLEEP, THE
BRIDEGROOM TALKS IN HIS SLEEP, CARESS, BURDEN OF YOUTH, and WOMAN OF
THE MIST) and only three later ones (WHERE CHIMNEYS ARE SEEN,
FIREFLIES, and the extraordinary YELLOW CROW)."
I was never able to see any of Gosho's '30s pictures in Japan, but
most of the post-war pictures were screened at one venue or another
(the oldest surving movie theatres in Tokyo exist side by side and
are connected to each other and screen second run hits with '50s
and '60s pictures; I saw a lot of '50s movies at those theatres.)
You've probably seen all the 30s Goshos shown in the US.
"...Too bad so many Japanese archival prints are in bad shape."
Many prints from the '20s and '30s are in bad shape, but there are
also quite a few in good or better condition though I haven't seen
these shown in the US. For example, GION NO SHIMAI/SISTERS OF GION
is in excellent shape, but the print shown at the 1998 Mizoguchi
retrospective wasn't nearly as good as the one I saw in Japan.
"A director I'd really like to see a retro of is Tomu Uchida. What
little I've seen gives me the feeling that he might be a major dude."
An Uchida retrospective would be great! What Uchida pictures have you
seen? I've seen a few movies from each of his periods: ADAUCHI
SENCHU/THE REVENGE CHAMPION 1931, a "tendency" film (leftist stories
of working class life,) TSUCHI/EARTH 1939, done in a neo-realist
manner, and his '50s films are really remarkable, especially his
version of DAIBOSATSU TOGE/THE GREAT BODHISATTVA PASS (the version
most often shown here is Okamoto's SWORD OF DOOM.) Incidently,
Uchida spent 9 years in a Soviet POW camp.
Richard
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