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Posts From the Internet Film Discussion Group, a_film_by
This group is dedicated to discussing film as art
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17801
From: Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:36pm
Subject: Re: Harvard-Epworth, Naruse (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> We seem to have a lot of Harvard-Epworth veterans here - I was a
regular
> between 1972 and 1976. And I think Richard Porton attended also.
I don't think I saw any of the truly avant-garde films there. I
wasn't all that adventurous cinematically at that point. But I did get
there from time to time during 1970 to 1974. ;~}
> It's (Flowing) one of the very best, I think.
It's frustrating that this is outside my grasp. ;~}
> Wow, where did you see WANDERER'S NOTEBOOK? LIGHTNING is very groovy,
> wonderfully subtle. - Dan
I've found a low-grade but watchable copy (converted from PAL to NTSC
and copied some more, etc.) of a subtitled TV broadcast of "Wanderer's
Notebook".
"Lightning" -- I have a virtually unwatchable copy of a subtitled
broadcast and a reasonably nice looking unsubtitled video. (I more or
less watched it twice -- once to read the subtitles and once to enjoy
the visuals). I think I especially like this because it is about as
close to a fully optimistic film one finds in Naruse's output.
I've tackled a number of Naruse films in the form of French-subtitled
videos -- and have even managed to survive some unsubbed ones: the
best being "Musume Tsuma Haha" (which was wonderful, with one of
Setsuko Hara's sweetest performances)
MEK
17802
From: Aaron Graham
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:57pm
Subject: Versions of Sam Fuller's late films (Was Re: BIG RED ONE)
> And has anyone seen THE MEANEST MEN IN THE WEST (1976)? It consists
> of two episodes of THE VIRGINIAN, one of them by Sam. But the two
> episodes have been cut together as if they were part of the same
> story, and combined with tons of newly shot footage that links the
> two, originally unconnected narratives. Much of this new footage
> features actors standing in for actors in the original TV segments
> (the fact that the new actors look nothing like those in the TV
> segments appears to have bothered no one).
I've seen this but was never quite sure of who shot what. Thanks for
the clarification. Did Fuller shoot the stuff with Bronson? I recall
him being in it for very little of the running time.
-Aaron
17803
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:06pm
Subject: Versions of Sam Fuller's late films (Was Re: BIG RED ONE)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Graham"
wrote:
>
>
> > And has anyone seen THE MEANEST MEN IN THE WEST (1976)? It
consists
> > of two episodes of THE VIRGINIAN, one of them by Sam. But the two
> > episodes have been cut together as if they were part of the same
> > story, and combined with tons of newly shot footage that links
the
> > two, originally unconnected narratives. Much of this new footage
> > features actors standing in for actors in the original TV
segments
> > (the fact that the new actors look nothing like those in the TV
> > segments appears to have bothered no one).
>
> I've seen this but was never quite sure of who shot what. Thanks
for
> the clarification. Did Fuller shoot the stuff with Bronson? I
recall
> him being in it for very little of the running time.
>
> -Aaron
Fuller directed Marvin. A 90-minute episode that I have never seen.
17804
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:54pm
Subject: Re: Godard at Le Havre
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
wrote:
- during the interview with JLG in the Cahiers around the time of
Cannes, I remember him mentioning Le Besco's film during his
comments about films that, projected, themselves project, but
didn't seem to grant Le Besco's film such a rarefied status.
He wants her. They all do. They are French, you know.
17805
From: Craig Keller
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:06pm
Subject: Re: Re: Godard at Le Havre
>He wants her. They all do. They are French, you know.
Even if her name is neither "Anna," "Anne," or "Anne-Marie"? I can't believe JLG never tried to "make it" with Juliet Berto -- unless, of course, he did.
what's in a name...?,
craig.
17806
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:24pm
Subject: Re: Re: Japanese directors (Was: HUMAN ACTION)
> An Uchida retrospective would be great! What Uchida pictures have you
> seen? I've seen a few movies from each of his periods: ADAUCHI
> SENCHU/THE REVENGE CHAMPION 1931, a "tendency" film (leftist stories
> of working class life,) TSUCHI/EARTH 1939, done in a neo-realist
> manner, and his '50s films are really remarkable, especially his
> version of DAIBOSATSU TOGE/THE GREAT BODHISATTVA PASS (the version
> most often shown here is Okamoto's SWORD OF DOOM.)
I've seen only a few films, all of them pretty late: DUEL AT ICHIJOJI
TEMPLE (MUSACHI MIYAMOTO Pt. IV), with an excellent fight scene at the
end; MURDER IN YOSHIWARA; KAKU AND TSUNE. I saw at least one other film
that he co-directed with Ichikawa (I think) from the 70s, which didn't
impress me. Uchida doesn't have a huge rep these days, but his camera has
great authority, and he's very expressive even with what could be rote
genre material. - Dan
17807
From: peckinpah20012000
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:24pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
And of course JL says in the commentary that it was
> Tashlin who insisted on pushing "the Kid" into new areas of
sentiment.
> >
> > And what about Lewis' all-star home-movie spoofs? Do we have to
> wait
> > until everybody is dead?
>
> I believe some of these are already available in France in a
mammoth
> documentary by Robert Benayoun.
Thanks for the feedback so far. The sentimentality is the most
problematic aspect of Jerry - at least, for contemporary students.
It ruins most of THE FAMILY JEWELS for me.
Is the Benayoun documentary available anywhere?
For any Jerry class an introduction to the work of Laurel and
Hardy, Chaplin, and Buster Keaton would be appropriate. But, as for
the Martin-Lewis films, are there any others besides THE STOOGE,
ARTISTS AND MODELS, and PARDNERS that would form the necessary
prologue examples before "Jerry as auteur" appears?
Tony Williams
17808
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:25pm
Subject: Re: Kato
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Keser" wrote:
>
> I've lost track of who was looking for information about Kato
> (Paul?), but some might be interested that the Time Out Film Guide
> has short reviews of six of his films: Blood of Revenge, Cruel
Story
> of the Shogunate's Downfall, History of a Man's Face, Red Peony
> Gambler, Sasuke and His Comedians, and I, the Executioner. About
the
> latter, Tony Rayns writes that it is "shattering" and "up there
with
> Oshima's Violence at Noon and Imamura's Vengeance Is Mine".
I looked online, and found out this interesting relationship: Kato was
Sadao Yamanaka's nephew.
http://www.pardo.ch/1997/filmprg/r093.html
Paul
17809
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:26pm
Subject: Naruse (Was: Harvard-Epworth, Naruse)
>> Wow, where did you see WANDERER'S NOTEBOOK? LIGHTNING is very groovy,
>> wonderfully subtle. - Dan
>
> I've found a low-grade but watchable copy (converted from PAL to NTSC
> and copied some more, etc.) of a subtitled TV broadcast of "Wanderer's
> Notebook".
I suddenly realized that this is the same film as HER LONELY LANE, which
was part of the 80s retro. - Dan
17810
From: peckinpah20012000
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:39pm
Subject: Versions of Sam Fuller's late films (Was Re: BIG RED ONE)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Graham"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > And has anyone seen THE MEANEST MEN IN THE WEST (1976)? It
> consists
> > > of two episodes of THE VIRGINIAN, one of them by Sam. >
> Fuller directed Marvin. A 90-minute episode that I have never seen.
I've seen the episode titled IT TOLLS FOR THEE from THE VIRGINIAN.
It is a good Fuller adaptation subverting the black and white
morality of the main characters by suggesting Lee J. Cobb's Judge
Garth got his land illegally and having some sympathy for the Lee
Marvin outlaw character.
THE MEANEST MEN IN THE WEST (1976) is an atrociously re-edited
version of two Virginian episodes. Fuller did not direct the Bronson
one. So some hack editor made a bad TV movie version similar to
those RAWHIDE episodes re-edited into a pseudo-Italian western THE
MAGNIFICENT STRANGER released to cash in on Eastwood's Leone films
and prevented from further screenings by Clint's lawer. Avoid THE
MEANEST MEN IN THE WEST at all costs and try to see "It Tolls for
Thee." Viewing TMMW will put you off Fuller which is unfair since he
had nothing to do with this version designed to cash in on the star
status of two screen "tough guys."
I think, but am not sure, that Fuller directed the pilot for THE
IRON HORSE starring Dale Robertson which was much better than the
rest of the series. Fuller did direct another IRON HORSE episode
though.
Tony Williams
17811
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: Lewis DVDs
--- peckinpah20012000
wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback so far. The sentimentality
> is the most
> problematic aspect of Jerry - at least, for
> contemporary students.
> It ruins most of THE FAMILY JEWELS for me.
>
Actually I don't find it all that sentimenal.
Particularly because of Everett the Clown. The best
sequence -- Catian Eddie's Aurways -- deosn't involve
sentiment at all.
But, as for
> the Martin-Lewis films, are there any others besides
> THE STOOGE,
> ARTISTS AND MODELS, and PARDNERS that would form the
> necessary
> prologue examples before "Jerry as auteur" appears?
>
HOLLYWOOD OR BUST most definitely. SCARED STIFF is
great fun as is LIVING IT UP (a remake of NOTHING
SACRED) and that Fassbinder fave YOU'RE NEVER TOO
YOUNG ( a remake of THE MAJOR AND THE MINOR)
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
17812
From: peckinpah20012000
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:47pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein >
Actually I don't find it all that sentimenal.
> Particularly because of Everett the Clown. The best
> sequence -- Catian Eddie's Aurways -- deosn't involve
> sentiment at all.
>
> But, as for
> > the Martin-Lewis films, are there any others besides
> > THE STOOGE,
> > ARTISTS AND MODELS, and PARDNERS that would form the
> > necessary
> > prologue examples before "Jerry as auteur" appears?
> >
>
> HOLLYWOOD OR BUST most definitely. SCARED STIFF is
> great fun as is LIVING IT UP (a remake of NOTHING
> SACRED) and that Fassbinder fave YOU'RE NEVER TOO
> YOUNG ( a remake of THE MAJOR AND THE MINOR)
> >
Since THE FAMILY JEWELS still has to make it here, I was relying
on memory so will give it another viewing - if only for Jerry Lewis
Airlines. Comics and small kids rarely work for me.
Tony Williams
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
17813
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:53pm
Subject: Oshima on Iron Chef (Re: Japanese directors)
One of the episodes of the Iron Chef on which Oshima was a judge is
going to be repeated on Nov. 20 on the Food Network.
http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/show_ic/episode/0,1976,FOOD_9970_27719,00.html
Paul
17814
From: Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:09pm
Subject: Re: Naruse (Was: Harvard-Epworth, Naruse)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> I suddenly realized that this is the same film as HER LONELY LANE,
which
> was part of the 80s retro.
Same film. I wonder why the American exhibitors decided to give this a
completely different name, especially when the translation of the real
name is perfectly fine.
;~}
It's a wonderful film whatever one calls it -- maybe the best
biographical film I've seen by any director.
MEK
17815
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:28pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "peckinpah20012000"
wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the feedback so far. The sentimentality is the most
> problematic aspect of Jerry - at least, for contemporary
students.
> It ruins most of THE FAMILY JEWELS for me.
>
as for
> the Martin-Lewis films, are there any others besides THE
STOOGE,
> ARTISTS AND MODELS, and PARDNERS that would form the
necessary
> prologue examples before "Jerry as auteur" appears?
>
> Tony Williams
Hollywood or Bust is great. Non-Tashlin D n J that's good is
Scared Stiff, as I recall. The Stooge is pretty serious. I also loved
That's My Boy at the tim -- I think Dean's in that.
17816
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:39pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "peckinpah20012000"
wrote:
> Since THE FAMILY JEWELS still has to make it here, I was
relying
> on memory so will give it another viewing - if only for Jerry
Lewis
> Airlines. Comics and small kids rarely work for me.
Donna Butterworth is the exception that proves the rule. Anyone
know where she is? She seems to have peaked at 9. The
English detective and the sea captain bits are weak. The rest is
terrific - Kelp the cameraman (much of it shot through a lens),
Bugsy (wonderful!), Uncle Everett ("Some clown!" says Donna
after eavesdropping on his speech to the "peasants" in the
clown troop, ending with the announcement that he's renouncing
his American citizenshipto avoid taxes -- something Lewis
almost did for moral reasons during the Vietnam war) and
Captain Eddie, who clearly inspired the airplane sequence in
Soigne ta droite.
17817
From:
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:57pm
Subject: The High Sign (Keaton, Cline)
The posts about this some time back made me hunt down a DVD of this. Thanks,
everybody! It is on the "The Saphead" DVD.
1) All the stuff about the secret society recalls:
"The Ace of Hearts" (Wallace Worsley, 1921).
This came out the same year as "The High Sign" (Buster Keaton, Eddie Cline).
"The Ace of Hearts" is a dead serious drama about a radical group that targets
evil rich men, threatening them. It is out on DVD, and is regularly shown on
Turner Classic Movies (where I saw it). It starts Lon Chaney as part of the
cell, & is quite atmospheric, despite an apparently spare style. I do not know
if Keaton was parodying this film, or whether such topics were in the
zeitgeist. One recalls the Stroheim parody in "The Frozen North". And I'm convinced the
recreation of Time Squere way back when in "Our Hospitality" spoofs
"Intolerance". And is "Kay Hoog", the hero of "The Spiders" (Fritz Lang) getting his ox
gored in "Sherlock, Jr" - or is Keaton merely spoofing a million white tie &
tails clad socialite sleuths like him?
2) "The High Sign" recalls a bit a Fatty Arbuckle short in which Keaton
appeared, "The Cook" (1918). Buster's ability to toss hats in the air with perfect
landings recalls a bit gags about dishes of food that get tossed in "The
Cook". And Al St. John and the dog from the earlier film are back for more here.
Plus both films have amusement park settings - hardly uncommon in silent comedy
shorts. (Best part of "The Cook": the "Ancient Egyptian" dancing done by
everyone at the restaurant. Inspired silliness!)
3) The sheer surrealism of the opening scenes of "The High Sign" are
striking. Events are complete nonsense, in a way that is not typical of Keaton. The
way the guns never hit the direction they are shot, or the way hats hang with no
pegs, is strange and pure nonsense, like Lewis Carroll or Edward Lear. Very
strange stuff!
Mike Grost
17818
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 0:05am
Subject: Re: The High Sign (Keaton, Cline)
Mike - How'd you like the moment when a guy throws down a
banana peel and Keaton walks over it, instead of slipping as we
expect, then gives US the High Sign? Unbelievable!
17819
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 0:15am
Subject: Re: The High Sign (Keaton, Cline)
Mike - How'd you like the moment when a guy throws down a
banana peel and Keaton walks over it, instead of slipping as we
expect, then gives US the High Sign? Unbelievable!
17820
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 0:19am
Subject: Versions of Sam Fuller's late films (Was Re: BIG RED ONE)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "peckinpah20012000"
wrote:
"I think, but am not sure, that Fuller directed the pilot for THE
IRON HORSE starring Dale Robertson which was much better than the
rest of the series. Fuller did direct another IRON HORSE episode
though."
I don't know about the pilot, but the American Cinematheque screened
two of Fuller's episodes of IRON HORSE in a 1997 retrospective (the
last retro Fuller attended): THE MAN FROM NEW CHICAGO and VOLCANO
WAGON. Neither one struck me as top flight Fuller but neither were
they ordinary 1960s TV. He directed a few other episodes he said, so
Fuller may have done 5 or 6 total.
A friend told me that THE VIRGINIAN episode with Marvin was shown on
the Western Channel under the title THE MAN FROM SHILOH.
Richard
17821
From: Andy Rector
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 0:19am
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs (was: The missing scene in Welles' Trial
> And let's not forget the brief but brilliant Clown Who Hates
Children
> scene, which has always looked to me like a sketch for The Day the
> Clown Cried. If so, that movie must be awesome, because Uncle
Everett
> is right up there with Buddy Love as Jerry's greatest creation.
True indeed!! Didn't Daney say as much somewhere?
17822
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 0:41am
Subject: Re: Re: The High Sign (Keaton, Cline)
> Mike - How'd you like the moment when a guy throws down a
> banana peel and Keaton walks over it, instead of slipping as we
> expect, then gives US the High Sign? Unbelievable!
Keaton talks in interviews about how the audience hated this moment,
because they don't like to see the comic protagonist being smarter than
them. So he went back after previews and filmed another shot of himself
slipping on a second banana peel. That reshoot seems to be missing from
today's prints. I can't believe that anyone wouldn't like that moment,
but Keaton said the preview audience was stony silent. - Dan
17823
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 0:48am
Subject: Re: The High Sign (Keaton, Cline)
> 1) All the stuff about the secret society recalls: "The Ace of Hearts"
> (Wallace Worsley, 1921). This came out the same year as "The High Sign"
> (Buster Keaton, Eddie Cline). "The Ace of Hearts" is a dead serious
> drama about a radical group that targets evil rich men, threatening
> them. It is out on DVD, and is regularly shown on Turner Classic Movies
> (where I saw it). It starts Lon Chaney as part of the cell, & is quite
> atmospheric, despite an apparently spare style. I do not know if Keaton
> was parodying this film, or whether such topics were in the zeitgeist.
Keaton shot THE HIGH SIGN in early 1920 but shelved it until April 1921,
so THE ACE OF HEARTS came too late.
> 3) The sheer surrealism of the opening scenes of "The High Sign" are
> striking. Events are complete nonsense, in a way that is not typical of
> Keaton.
CONVICT 13 is pretty surreal also. Maybe even SHERLOCK JR. Surreal humor
is one of the arrows in Keaton's quiver, I'd say.
I think Keaton came out of the Arbuckle period with more of a wiseguy
persona, and surreal humor seemed to fit that mode. But he quickly
evolved into more of a sympathetic character.
THE HIGH SIGN feels more like an Arbuckle wiseguy comedy than Keaton's
other shorts (the next one is ONE WEEK, which features the mature Keaton
hero), but it's still one of his best. - Dan
17824
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:03am
Subject: Lewis DVDs
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rector"
wrote:
>
>
> > And let's not forget the brief but brilliant Clown Who Hates
> Children
> > scene, which has always looked to me like a sketch for The
Day the
> > Clown Cried. If so, that movie must be awesome, because
Uncle
> Everett
> > is right up there with Buddy Love as Jerry's greatest creation.
>
> True indeed!! Didn't Daney say as much somewhere?
Naw, I said it. But people always mix me and Serge up...
Lewis says on the DVD that he hated playing Everett, but was
"trapped into it" by story needs.
17825
From: samfilms2003
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:38am
Subject: Harvard-Epworth Church (Re: HUMAN ACTION silence means consent)
> I think we overlapped, Sam. I still have all my old Harvard-Epworth
> schedules... - Dan
Hey if I'd known that thirty years later I'd be corresponding with you
via this vast network of computers, I'd have introduced myself !
Hmm, am I having a Chris Marker moment ??
-Sam
17826
From:
Date: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:58pm
Subject: Re: The High Sign (Keaton, Cline)
1) Surrealism is a broad term. Keaton is 100% surreal, broadly speaking - all
of his comedy is startling and imaginative.
Was just trying to get at the "absurd" nature of parts of "The High Sign".
The opening seems to take place in a world where the laws of reality seem to
have collapsed.
2) Did not know that "The High Sign" was made in 1920. That was the peak year
of the Red Scare showing up in prose fiction - F. Scott Fitzgerald's "May
Day", Donald McGibeny's "32 Caliber", Mary Roberts Rinehart's "Dangerous Days".
Perhaps the Keaton film reflects some of the political crises of the year 1920.
3) I loved Keaton substituting the banana for the gun.
4) It certainly is a fascinating movie! Thanks to everyone on the list for
recommending it.
Mike Grost
17827
From: Noel Vera
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:30am
Subject: Oshima on Iron Chef (Re: Japanese directors) and Naruse
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
>
> One of the episodes of the Iron Chef on which Oshima was a judge is
> going to be repeated on Nov. 20 on the Food Network.
>
Oshima's been a semi-regular on Iron Chef. He doesn't seem any more
erudite on food than the other guests (well, more than the prettier
actresses, anyway), but he does seem to enjoy himself enormously on
the show.
For the record, my favorite Naruse is The Echo, 1954 (that was the
Japan Foundation title; it's probably better known as Thunder on the
Mountain). The cruelty of husband to wife (Setsuko Hara, so the
cruelty is all the more startling), and the unacknowledged affection
between wife and father-in-law, it was gripping.
17828
From: Noel Vera
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:38am
Subject: Versions of Sam Fuller's late films (Was Re: BIG RED ONE)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "thebradstevens"
wrote:
>
> "On THE MADONNA AND THE DRAGON there was not much cutting"
>
Pity this isn't more readily available. It's got a good Filipino
cast--Behn Cervantes is an old friend of Lino Brocka and a
theatrical legend (he directed too--"Sakada," about Filipino
plantation workers. Not very good, I thought, but it does quote from
Eisenstein); Pilar Pilapil is (or was) one of the most sensual
actresses in Philippine cinema.
17829
From: Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:45pm
Subject: Japanese directors -- Naruse
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Noel Vera"
> For the record, my favorite Naruse is The Echo, 1954 (that was the
> Japan Foundation title; it's probably better known as Thunder on the
> Mountain). The cruelty of husband to wife (Setsuko Hara, so the
> cruelty is all the more startling), and the unacknowledged affection
> between wife and father-in-law, it was gripping.
It seems that "Yama no oto" is now most often called "Sound of the
Mountain" these days. It alternates with "Meshi" (The Meal, Repast,
or whatever) as my favorite. The novel on which it is based (by
Kawabata) is also quite wonderful. The performances by So Yamamura
and Setsuko Hara (and their interaction as father-in-law and
daughter-in-law) are utterly extraordinary.
MEK
MEK
17830
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:17pm
Subject: Re: Japanese directors -- Naruse
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Michael E. Kerpan, Jr."
wrote:
"It seems that "Yama no oto" is now most often called "Sound of the
Mountain" these days. It alternates with "Meshi" (The Meal, Repast,
or whatever) as my favorite."
SOUND OF THE MOUNTAIN is a near literal translation of YAMA NO
OTO. "Yama" means mountain, "no" is a possessive post-position (it
can also be translated as "of")and "oto" means sound, so literally it
would MOUNTAIN'S SOUND. The word "meshi" is a colloquial word for
meal, but the translated title I'm familiar with is REPAST.
Whenever I cite Japanese movie titles I gave the Japanese title along
with the English title because variations in translation sometime
make it hard to identify the movie, and with the advent of home video
the translated titles of a single movie multiply.
"The novel on which it is based (by Kawabata) is also quite
wonderful."
A surprising number of Kawabata's novels have been filmed, and it
seems to me that Naruse's sensibility was very much in tune with
Kawabata for YAMA NO OTO/SOUND OF THE MOUNTAIN.
"The performances by So Yamamura and Setsuko Hara (and their
interaction as father-in-law and daughter-in-law) are utterly
extraordinary."
And testimony to their extraordinary versatility.
Richard
17831
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:43pm
Subject: Re: The High Sign (Keaton, Cline)
>
> I think Keaton came out of the Arbuckle period with more of a
wiseguy
> persona, and surreal humor seemed to fit that mode. But he
quickly
> evolved into more of a sympathetic character.
>
> THE HIGH SIGN feels more like an Arbuckle wiseguy comedy than
Keaton's
> other shorts (the next one is ONE WEEK, which features the mature
Keaton
> hero), but it's still one of his best. - Dan
It has always seemed to me that THE HIGH SIGN was light-years away
from and ahead of the Arbuckle style of comedy, even if its heavy
reliance on nonsense gags is untypical of later, (more "mature"?)
Keaton (although SHERLOCK Jr is the most surrealistic of his films).
For a first solo effort HIGH SIGN is amazingly well structured, with
some gags carefully set up in the first reel and coming to fruition
in the second. You mentioned the banana. The cop is knocked down by
the fruit vendor at the exact place where the banana had been stolen
(from his stand) ten minutes earlier. And see how the heavy first
appears from behind a counter like a jack-in-the-box, then in the
closing scene disappears in similar vertical movement -- but in the
opposite direction -- as he falls through a trap door. That's Keaton
the great constructionist at work from his very first personal
short.The chase through the house is one of the most dazzling in the
entire history of silent comedy.
I think we discussed the banana peel gag in a previous exchange.
Keaton said it didn't get a laugh in a preview, and today, when the
film is screened in a theater, it gets the biggest laugh of the
entire film. It was a wink to the audience (Arbuckle often did that)
and Keaton's conclusion was that audiences didn't want a smart-
alecky comic hero. So he didn't like the film, a masterpiece.
According to Blesh, Arbuckle loved the film and said it would make a
lot of money, which convinced Keaton that it was no good. While
Keaton was understandably trying to distance himself from Arbuckle
and what he stood for, the anecdote has always seemed dubious to me
(everything in the Blesh bio must be taken with a grain of salt)...
No one as far as i know has ever seen the version of HIGH SIGN with
the second banana peel and it seems doubtful that it ever existed,
even if it was filmed. Too bad, it would have made for a fine, and
very keatonian, gag.
JPC
17832
From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:40pm
Subject: Re: Japanese directors -- Naruse
> The word "meshi" is a colloquial word for
> meal, but the translated title I'm familiar with is REPAST.
So it was billed at Japan Society (NY) the other night, but the print had a different English title -- I think, the somewhat redundant "A Married Wife." (I'm ready to see it again, under any title.) Risking redundancy myself, I'll mention that they're screening WHEN A WOMAN ASCENDS THE STAIRS on Dec. 1, and this one will be in 35mm.
17833
From: peckinpah20012000
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:05pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "("Some clown!" says Donna
> after eavesdropping on his speech to the "peasants" in the
> clown troop, ending with the announcement that he's renouncing
> his American citizenshipto avoid taxes -- something Lewis
> almost did for moral reasons during the Vietnam war) and
> Captain Eddie, who clearly inspired the airplane sequence in
> Soigne ta droite.
Did not know that Jerry intended to renounce his citizenship for
moral reasons during the Vietnam War. This really shows another side
of him contrasting with the attitudes Shawn Levy and Frank Krutnik
experienced in their contacts with him.
Like his films, the real Jerry has certain qualities "more than
meets the eye."
Tony Williams
17834
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:12pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
>.
> >
> > True indeed!! Didn't Daney say as much somewhere?
>
> Naw, I said it. But people always mix me and Serge up...
>
Daney is alive and well and lives in L.A. He just stole Bill's
identity.
17835
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:12pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "peckinpah20012000"
wrote:
>
> Did not know that Jerry intended to renounce his citizenship
for
> moral reasons during the Vietnam War. This really shows
another side
> of him contrasting with the attitudes Shawn Levy and Frank
Krutnik
> experienced in their contacts with him.
>
> Like his films, the real Jerry has certain qualities "more than
> meets the eye."
>
> Tony Williams
It may have been to Gary out of harm's way -- that would be more
in tune w. Lewis's sense of morality. Didn't Shawn mention it?
17836
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:18pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
> wrote:
> >
> >.
> > >
> > > True indeed!! Didn't Daney say as much somewhere?
> >
> > Naw, I said it. But people always mix me and Serge up...
> >
>
> Daney is alive and well and lives in L.A. He just stole Bill's
> identity.
Long before I ever met him.
17837
From: Jonathan Rosenbaum
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:19pm
Subject: Versions of Sam Fuller's late films (Was Re: BIG RED ONE)
Just for the record: When I programmed a Fuller retrospective at
Univ. of california, Santa Barbara in 1987, Sam forbid me to show any
of his TV work. He said he didn't regard it as part of his work, just
bread and butter stuff to pay the rent.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Modiano"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "peckinpah20012000"
> wrote:
>
> "I think, but am not sure, that Fuller directed the pilot for THE
> IRON HORSE starring Dale Robertson which was much better than the
> rest of the series. Fuller did direct another IRON HORSE episode
> though."
>
> I don't know about the pilot, but the American Cinematheque
screened
> two of Fuller's episodes of IRON HORSE in a 1997 retrospective (the
> last retro Fuller attended): THE MAN FROM NEW CHICAGO and VOLCANO
> WAGON. Neither one struck me as top flight Fuller but neither were
> they ordinary 1960s TV. He directed a few other episodes he said,
so
> Fuller may have done 5 or 6 total.
>
> A friend told me that THE VIRGINIAN episode with Marvin was shown
on
> the Western Channel under the title THE MAN FROM SHILOH.
>
> Richard
17838
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:27pm
Subject: Versions of Sam Fuller's late films (Was Re: BIG RED ONE)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
wrote:
>
> Just for the record: When I programmed a Fuller retrospective
at
> Univ. of california, Santa Barbara in 1987, Sam forbid me to
show any
> of his TV work. He said he didn't regard it as part of his work,
just
> bread and butter stuff to pay the rent.
>
There's a chapter on that in A Third Face - Tempted by
Television. Sam's injunction of course didn't include The
Madonna and the Dragon and Day of Reckoning, both made for
French tv.
I saw some Iron Horses, and they weren't much. I haven't seen
The Man from Shiloh (The Virginian), which has its fans, or the
truckers and goofballs 1-hr he did for some 4 Star drama
anthology, about which I've heard good things from Doug
Brodoff, the guy who found A Pair of Boots.
In any event, the French tv stuff is an important part of the oeuvre,
and the American tv stuff, as far as I know, is marginal work.
17839
From:
Date: Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:32pm
Subject: Re: Versions of Sam Fuller's late films (Was Re: BIG RED ONE)
Phil Hardy's book "Samuel Fuller" (1970) has a filmography that carefully
lists Fuller's 60's TV work.
Have never seen any of it.
Both the Virginian "It Tolls For Thee" and one of the Iron Horse episodes,
"High Devil", were written by Fuller. I usually far prefer Fuller's work as a
writer-director, to films in which he directs someone else's scripts. They are
more personal and more creative.
Mike Grost
17840
From: George Robinson
Date: Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:18pm
Subject: [Fwd: [JunkMail] [AMIA-L] Faculty Opening Regarding Cinema Studies]
FYI, folks.
g
--
The entire world is a narrow bridge,
but the main thing is not to be afraid.
-- Rabbi Nakhman of Breslov
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17841
From: thebradstevens
Date: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:52pm
Subject: RIPLEY'S GAME
Just watched Liliana Caviani's RIPLEY'S GAME. Does anyone know which
parts of this were directed by John Malkovich?
17842
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:46pm
Subject: Re: RIPLEY'S GAME
Hunh? Never heard that before.
I quite liked the film Malkovich directed a year or so
ago with Javier Bardem.
--- thebradstevens wrote:
>
> Just watched Liliana Caviani's RIPLEY'S GAME. Does
> anyone know which
> parts of this were directed by John Malkovich?
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
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Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com
17843
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:18pm
Subject: Re: RIPLEY'S GAME
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> Hunh? Never heard that before.
>
> I quite liked the film Malkovich directed a year or so
> ago with Javier Bardem.
> Interesting question -- would I be trampling on everything I hold
dear if I saw a film Malkovich directed but does npot appear in?
Is he "present" as an auteur in a way that would violate my
sacred oath.
17844
From: thebradstevens
Date: Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:28pm
Subject: Re: RIPLEY'S GAME
"Never heard that before."
Malkovich apparently took over for the last 11 days of filming.
17845
From: Noel Vera
Date: Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:46pm
Subject: King Kong: some thoughts on an old classic
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/noelmoviereviews/message/470
17846
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 0:05am
Subject: Re: Re: RIPLEY'S GAME
--- hotlove666 wrote:
> > Interesting question -- would I be trampling on
> everything I hold
> dear if I saw a film Malkovich directed but does
> npot appear in?
> Is he "present" as an auteur in a way that would
> violate my
> sacred oath.
>
He does not appear in the film.
Why do you dislike him so much?
__________________________________
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Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com
17847
From: samfilms2003
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 0:37am
Subject: Re: [Fwd: 11/13: Two Markopoulos Screenings at the Donnell Media Center in NYC]
A followup to what Iposted before,
P. Adams Sitney's article on the Eniaios screening in Greece is in
the current - November - issue of Artforum.
-Sam
17848
From: Craig Keller
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:00am
Subject: MoMA Viewing
Can anyone help out in telling me how the MoMA "Viewing Time" ticket
pre-order works? Supposing I want to see 'Moments choisis' at 5:00pm,
Sunday Nov. 21, do I just buy one of the available "general admission"
"viewing time" tickets, or is there a separate box office, like at the
Gramercy? (Latest "viewing time" available on each day is 3:30pm,
although many films start quite a bit later.)
-Tons- of great stuff in the Premieres series -- looks like the 112
Years of Cinema program isn't quite all put together yet, though...
craig.
17849
From:
Date: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:17pm
Subject: Metropolis (1926) & Sky Captain (2004)
I was sitting in my cube at work today - a cube decorated by a large movie
poster for Metropolis, showing the City of the Future.
A friend came up, and asked "Is that a poster for Sky Captain?"
He had liked Sky Captain, and thought the city in the poster looked just like
the depiction of New York in that film.
I said no, but that I bet the makers of Sky Captain had studied Metropolis in
detail...
Metropolis is still one of the most influential of all films.
Mike Grost
17850
From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:49am
Subject: Re: MoMA Viewing
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller wrote:
>
> Can anyone help out in telling me how the MoMA "Viewing Time" ticket
> pre-order works? Supposing I want to see 'Moments choisis' at 5:00pm,
> Sunday Nov. 21, do I just buy one of the available "general admission"
> "viewing time" tickets, or is there a separate box office, like at the
> Gramercy?
What is "Viewing Time"? This page, while still largely incomprehensible to me, makes no mention of it and suggests that film tickets will be sold independently: http://moma.org/visit_moma/admissions.html
(Bring $10 -- instead of $20 -- and head for the "piano-shaped canopy")
17851
From: Andy Rector
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:52am
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
>>If so, that movie must be awesome, because
> Uncle
> > Everett
> > > is right up there with Buddy Love as Jerry's greatest creation.
> >
> > True indeed!! Didn't Daney say as much somewhere?
>
> Naw, I said it. But people always mix me and Serge up...
I'll say! I just got a load of a '82 or '83 issue of Cahiers called
MADE IN USA.......what an issue BILL!!
yours,
andy
17852
From: Andy Rector
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:59am
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
> > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "("Some clown!" says Donna
> > after eavesdropping on his speech to the "peasants" in the
> > clown troop, ending with the announcement that he's renouncing
> > his American citizenshipto avoid taxes -- something Lewis
> > almost did for moral reasons during the Vietnam war)
If I were a critic at the time of Which Way to the Front I would've
tried to say that Jerry was against the Vietnam war based purely on
the lethargy of his war-drum-beating at the beginning of that film.
Look at his face there!
-andy
17853
From: Damien Bona
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:20am
Subject: Re: MoMA Viewing
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
wrote:
>
> Can anyone help out in telling me how the MoMA "Viewing Time"
ticket
> pre-order works? Supposing I want to see 'Moments choisis' at
5:00pm,
> Sunday Nov. 21, do I just buy one of the available "general
admission"
> "viewing time" tickets, or is there a separate box office, like at
the
> Gramercy? (Latest "viewing time" available on each day is 3:30pm,
> although many films start quite a bit later.)
I'm looking at the November MoMA members catalogue, which does
indicate that you can get film tickets both at the information desk
(which is how it was done in the past) and also from a separate Film
Desk which is located at the entrance to the administrative offices
on 53rd STreet. There's no mention of a "viewing time" in the
catalogue, though, so I would assume you can buy a ticket up to the
screening time. While the information desk has tickets available
starting at 1pm (and 9:30 am on weekends), you can't get them at the
Film Deskuntil 4 (1 on weekends). A ticket for the movie alone is 10
dollars as opposed to the 20 bucks charged for entrance to the
Museum.
17854
From: George Robinson
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:45am
Subject: TheStar.com - Journo as movie fan? Not this man
A nice quiet reminder of what craven, supine scoundrel the
"entertainment press" really are.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1100213410819&call_pageid=970599119419
George (More moribund than supine) Robinson
17855
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:54pm
Subject: Re: RIPLEY'S GAME Malkovich plays Ripley end of message
17856
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:28pm
Subject: Re: Metropolis (1926) & Sky Captain (2004)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> I was sitting in my cube at work today - a cube decorated by a
large movie
> poster for Metropolis, showing the City of the Future.
> A friend came up, and asked "Is that a poster for Sky Captain?"
> He had liked Sky Captain, and thought the city in the poster
looked just like
> the depiction of New York in that film.
> I said no, but that I bet the makers of Sky Captain had studied
Metropolis in
> detail...
> Metropolis is still one of the most influential of all films.
>
> Mike Grost
I saw the trailer for SKY CAPTAIN and thought it looked
tremendous. I blame myself for missing it when it was around (it
sort of came and went). It may be more fun than METROPOLIS...
17857
From: jerome_gerber
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:03pm
Subject: Re: MoMA Viewing
Craig,
The other possibility is that you can retrieve tickets one week ahead of schedule for a
small fee. 50 cents if you're a member (no cost for the ticket) and $1.50 for a non-
member (plus the $10. ticket charge). I don't believe advance ticketing kicks in until
Nov 21. On that day, one would be able to retrive tickets any time for the following week.
Getting tickets in advance at MoMA is useful if you think there's going to be a crowd or
you just like to have your life in order.
Hope this helps.
Jerry
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona" wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
> wrote:
> >
> > Can anyone help out in telling me how the MoMA "Viewing Time"
> ticket
> > pre-order works? Supposing I want to see 'Moments choisis' at
> 5:00pm,
> > Sunday Nov. 21, do I just buy one of the available "general
> admission"
> > "viewing time" tickets, or is there a separate box office, like at
> the
> > Gramercy? (Latest "viewing time" available on each day is 3:30pm,
> > although many films start quite a bit later.)
>
> I'm looking at the November MoMA members catalogue, which does
> indicate that you can get film tickets both at the information desk
> (which is how it was done in the past) and also from a separate Film
> Desk which is located at the entrance to the administrative offices
> on 53rd STreet. There's no mention of a "viewing time" in the
> catalogue, though, so I would assume you can buy a ticket up to the
> screening time. While the information desk has tickets available
> starting at 1pm (and 9:30 am on weekends), you can't get them at the
> Film Deskuntil 4 (1 on weekends). A ticket for the movie alone is 10
> dollars as opposed to the 20 bucks charged for entrance to the
> Museum.
17858
From: J. Mabe
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:13pm
Subject: Re: Re: MoMA Viewing
For any of the MoMA members that might have advanced
knowledge of the upcoming programs, is there a Robert
Beavers series coming soon? I remember someone
mentioning it to me a while ago, but I might be
mistaken. I’d like to know, as I would certainly make
the trip if the program was large enough.
Thanks,
Josh Mabe
--- jerome_gerber wrote:
>
> Craig,
> The other possibility is that you can retrieve
> tickets one week ahead of schedule for a
> small fee. 50 cents if you're a member (no cost for
> the ticket) and $1.50 for a non-
> member (plus the $10. ticket charge). I don't
> believe advance ticketing kicks in until
> Nov 21. On that day, one would be able to retrive
> tickets any time for the following week.
> Getting tickets in advance at MoMA is useful if you
> think there's going to be a crowd or
> you just like to have your life in order.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Jerry
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Can anyone help out in telling me how the MoMA
> "Viewing Time"
> > ticket
> > > pre-order works? Supposing I want to see
> 'Moments choisis' at
> > 5:00pm,
> > > Sunday Nov. 21, do I just buy one of the
> available "general
> > admission"
> > > "viewing time" tickets, or is there a separate
> box office, like at
> > the
> > > Gramercy? (Latest "viewing time" available on
> each day is 3:30pm,
> > > although many films start quite a bit later.)
> >
> > I'm looking at the November MoMA members
> catalogue, which does
> > indicate that you can get film tickets both at the
> information desk
> > (which is how it was done in the past) and also
> from a separate Film
> > Desk which is located at the entrance to the
> administrative offices
> > on 53rd STreet. There's no mention of a "viewing
> time" in the
> > catalogue, though, so I would assume you can buy a
> ticket up to the
> > screening time. While the information desk has
> tickets available
> > starting at 1pm (and 9:30 am on weekends), you
> can't get them at the
> > Film Deskuntil 4 (1 on weekends). A ticket for
> the movie alone is 10
> > dollars as opposed to the 20 bucks charged for
> entrance to the
> > Museum.
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com
17859
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:44pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rector"
wrote:
> >
> > Naw, I said it. But people always mix me and Serge up...
>
> I'll say! I just got a load of a '82 or '83 issue of Cahiers called
> MADE IN USA.......what an issue BILL!!
>
> yours,
> andy
Actually 82 was post-Daney. The driving forces behind those issues
were Toubiana and Assayas, with a big assist from Serge Le Peron. I
think it's amusing to read the films they chose to review in issue 1.
Since I don't share David and JR's love of Reds, I wd say that the
only film in the batch destined to be heard from further is They All
Laughed! Sharky's Machine, Taps....
17860
From: hotlove666
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:56pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rector"
wrote:
>
>
> > > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "("Some clown!" says Donna
> > > after eavesdropping on his speech to the "peasants" in the
> > > clown troop, ending with the announcement that he's renouncing
> > > his American citizenshipto avoid taxes -- something Lewis
> > > almost did for moral reasons during the Vietnam war)
>
> If I were a critic at the time of Which Way to the Front I would've
> tried to say that Jerry was against the Vietnam war based purely on
> the lethargy of his war-drum-beating at the beginning of that film.
> Look at his face there!
>
> -andy
Daney's article on Which Way to the Front is one of the best things
he ever wrote. He noticed how ravaged Jer looks at the beginning.
That would've been at the height of Perkodane Hell. Without
necessarily knowing that, Serge diagnosed the new persona as someone
who had lost his body ("4-F"), which is replaced in the film by the
power of speech and the power of money (Byers=Buyers). "His word is
gold." I rank that film with The Big Mouth as the best of Middle
Lewis, which some lovers of the Paramount Lewis consider to be a
period of decline because he was back to working on practical
locations, without the abstracting power of b&w as in Bellboy and
Errand Boy. The Kesselring (sp?) sequences are sheer genius. Sean
says it was cut by the producers, who put in all the swish-pan cuts,
but I think Godard loved the cutting! Rightly or wrongly Serge
assimilated it to the thread started by his Rio Lobo piece that
continued exploring montage in various directors as an answer to the
question of "how to pass from one thing to another."
17861
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:35pm
Subject: Burt Reynolds (Was: Lewis DVDs)
> I wd say that the
> only film in the batch destined to be heard from further is They All
> Laughed! Sharky's Machine, Taps....
SHARKY'S MACHINE isn't bad, actually. Reynolds has some talent as a
director. - Dan
17862
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: Reds [Was: Lewis DVDs]
--- hotlove666 wrote:
> Since I don't share David and JR's love of Reds, I
> wd say that the
> only film in the batch destined to be heard from
> further is They All
> Laughed! Sharky's Machine, Taps....
>
My most significant exchange with the CdC guys who
came to L.A. to create that isue (Olivier being their
defacto leader I guess) was my declaration that "Reds"
had "no mise en scene" and that that was a good thing.
They were all very shocked.
I was shocked myself in that this realization came to
me in a flash just at that moment.
__________________________________
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www.yahoo.com
17863
From: Andy Rector
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:25pm
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
> Actually 82 was post-Daney. The driving forces behind those issues
> were Toubiana and Assayas, with a big assist from Serge Le Peron.
I
> think it's amusing to read the films they chose to review in issue
1.
> Since I don't share David and JR's love of Reds, I wd say that the
> only film in the batch destined to be heard from further is They
All
> Laughed! Sharky's Machine, Taps....
But there was an interview between Daney and Sarris there. A
roundtable with you and Hitchcock's designers. A piece by you on
Flaherty/(I forget)/Landis. A piece on Stanton Kaye (!!!).
-andy
17864
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: Lewis DVDs
--- Andy Rector wrote:
A piece on Stanton Kaye
> (!!!).
>
Good grief! Brandon French the subject/star of his
"Brandy in the Wilderness" lives just up the block
from me. Their child is now in college.
__________________________________
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www.yahoo.com
17865
From: thebradstevens
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:38pm
Subject: Stanton Kaye (was Re: Lewis DVDs)
"A piece on Stanton Kaye"
I talked to Stanton several times while researching my book on Monte
Hellman (Stanton worked on THE SHOOTING, as well as appearing in
Monte's additional scenes for CREATURE FROM THE HAUNTED SEA). A truly
fascinating character, with a seemingly endless series of fascinating
stories. I saw his film GEORG, a masterpiece which inspired DAVID
HOLZMAN'S DIARY, but I've never managed to see BRANDY IN THE
WILDERNESS, or any of his other films - anyone know where I could
find tapes of this stuff?
17866
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:49pm
Subject: Re: Stanton Kaye (was Re: Lewis DVDs)
> I talked to Stanton several times while researching my book on Monte
> Hellman (Stanton worked on THE SHOOTING, as well as appearing in
> Monte's additional scenes for CREATURE FROM THE HAUNTED SEA). A truly
> fascinating character, with a seemingly endless series of fascinating
> stories. I saw his film GEORG, a masterpiece which inspired DAVID
> HOLZMAN'S DIARY, but I've never managed to see BRANDY IN THE
> WILDERNESS, or any of his other films - anyone know where I could
> find tapes of this stuff?
I have a tape of Stanton's movie HE WANTS HER BACK, which I believe was
made for PBS. Write me offlist if you're interested. I have no idea how
to find BRANDY - I've never seen it either.
I heard a rumor in recent years that Stanton had made another movie, about
baseball. Anyone know about this? - Dan
17867
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:52pm
Subject: Re: Stanton Kaye (was Re: Lewis DVDs)
--- thebradstevens wrote:
I saw his film GEORG, a masterpiece which
> inspired DAVID
> HOLZMAN'S DIARY, but I've never managed to see
> BRANDY IN THE
> WILDERNESS, or any of his other films - anyone know
> where I could
> find tapes of this stuff?
>
Wish I knew. GEORG is actually a lot closer to
Brakhage's BLUE MOSES than DAVID HOLZMAN'S DIARY.
Funny you shoul mention that one because I ran into
Kit Carson yesterday at a reception for THE MOTORCYCLE
DIARIES. He's writing a column for "Variety"!
I first met Stanton at, of all places, the Silver
Factory. What he was doing trying to get in with
Warhol I have no idea. He was disturbingly beautiful
back in those days. Consequently his hasty retreat
from that scene was no surprise to me.
>
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17868
From: thebradstevens
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 0:21am
Subject: Stanton Kaye (was Re: Lewis DVDs)
"GEORG is actually a lot closer to Brakhage's BLUE MOSES than DAVID
HOLZMAN'S DIARY."
Don't know the Brakhage film. Tell me about it.
"I ran into Kit Carson yesterday"
I've been trying to contact Kit for months! Any idea how I can get in
touch with him?
"I first met Stanton at, of all places, the Silver Factory. What he
was doing trying to get in with Warhol I have no idea."
There's a couple of great stories about him in Bill Landis' biography
of Kenneth Anger, one of which involves Kaye accusing John Fles of
stealing a print of INAUGURATION OF THE PLEASURE DOME. Both Fles and
Kaye can be seen chasing Robert Towne in the pre-credits sequence
Monte Hellman shot for CREATURE FROM THE HAUNTED SEA. Kaye told me
quite a bit about Anger, and also Curtis Harrington, but I don't
recall him mentioning Warhol.
17869
From: programming
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 0:22am
Subject: Robert Beavers retro
On 11/13/04 12:13 PM, "J. Mabe" wrote:
>
> For any of the MoMA members that might have advanced
> knowledge of the upcoming programs, is there a Robert
> Beavers series coming soon? I remember someone
> mentioning it to me a while ago, but I might be
> mistaken. I?d like to know, as I would certainly make
> the trip if the program was large enough.
>
> Thanks,
> Josh Mabe
>
>
The Whitney in NY is planning a Robert Beavers retrospective. Not sure on
the timing, but I think next year.
Patrick F.
17870
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 0:28am
Subject: Re: Lewis DVDs
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rector"
wrote:
> But there was an interview between Daney and Sarris there. A
> roundtable with you and Hitchcock's designers. A piece by you on
> Flaherty/(I forget)/Landis. A piece on Stanton Kaye (!!!).
>
> -andy
Actually Bill was referring to the FIRST "Made in USA" issue of CdC
(April 1982, #334-335)and you're referring to the second (June 1982,
#337). That was a great issue indeed, and Bill was all over the
place with his Cimino interview and the roundtable with THE BIRDS'
designers and the Flaherty-Arnold-Landis "chronology" and the
Stanton Kaye interview,and even an interview with Jessica Lange!
David was there too. And Jonathan. Sarris was interviewed by Daney.
Good stuff by Chion, Assayas... That was a pretty good period for
Cahiers...
JPC
17871
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 0:28am
Subject: Re: Stanton Kaye (was Re: Lewis DVDs)
--- thebradstevens wrote:
>
> Don't know the Brakhage film. Tell me about it.
I think Fred Camper would be the best person to
describe it.
>
> I've been trying to contact Kit for months! Any idea
> how I can get in
> touch with him?
>
Call Amy Dawes at "Variety"
>
> There's a couple of great stories about him in Bill
> Landis' biography
> of Kenneth Anger, one of which involves Kaye
> accusing John Fles of
> stealing a print of INAUGURATION OF THE PLEASURE
> DOME. Both Fles and
> Kaye can be seen chasing Robert Towne in the
> pre-credits sequence
> Monte Hellman shot for CREATURE FROM THE HAUNTED
> SEA. Kaye told me
> quite a bit about Anger, and also Curtis Harrington,
> but I don't
> recall him mentioning Warhol.
>
Well as I said he didn't hang around the Factory that
long. But Kenneth Anger? Trouble and a half.
Curtis is another story. I like him quite lot.
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17872
From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:31am
Subject: Stanton Kaye (was Re: Lewis DVDs)
Brandy and He Wants Her Back are essential viewing. Haven't seen
Georg or the real Grail, In Pursuit of Treasure, the last AFI
production, possibly destroyed on orders from George Stevens Jr. Most
of Stanton's films are about the systems for indie production that
finnaced them, which they brought down one by one.
17873
From: thebradstevens
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:38pm
Subject: Peter Bogdanovich Presents
UK-based posters may be interested to know that, according to an
article in today's OBSERVER (see
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,6903,1350555,00.html),
Peter Bogdanovich will be introducing several of his favorite films
on the subscription channel Sky Cinema as part of a season that
begins November 25th. The first two titles are CITY LIGHTS and I WAS
A MALE WAR BRIDE.
17874
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:30pm
Subject: Re: Stanton Kaye (was Re: Lewis DVDs)
> Haven't seen
> Georg or the real Grail, In Pursuit of Treasure, the last AFI
> production, possibly destroyed on orders from George Stevens Jr.
Stanton believes that Stevens Jr. destroyed the film, but I've always
suspected it's just sitting around somewhere. If I recall correctly,
Stanton has eight reels out of eleven, printed in black and white. - Dan
17875
From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:19pm
Subject: OT: corresponding with you
When in school, I met a great variety of people and wondered which
would remain friends? In fact, I defined friendship as something that
remains when time/space is not longer shared; I actually wrote quite a
few letters back in the 70's and 80's (and kept copies... somewhere?)
to friends across the country as phone calls were out of the budget and
not friendly to the 'philosophical conversations.' Of course by the
90's, the internet ... where I converse with people I have never shared
time/space.
>
>> I think we overlapped, Sam. I still have all my old Harvard-Epworth
>> schedules... - Dan
>
> Hey if I'd known that thirty years later I'd be corresponding with you
> via this vast network of computers, I'd have introduced myself !
>
> Hmm, am I having a Chris Marker moment ??
>
> -Sam
17876
From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:32pm
Subject: Sky Captain more fun
>> Metropolis is still one of the most influential of all films.
>> Mike Grost
>
> I saw the trailer for SKY CAPTAIN and thought it looked
> tremendous. I blame myself for missing it when it was around (it
> sort of came and went). It may be more fun than METROPOLIS... JPC
Sky Captain is more fun, it shows little of mass destruction (except at
the air base). When NYC is invaded by the flying robots, no humans are
shown injured. When I first saw it, I thought that lack of 'mass
involvement' a deficiency but from the little I know of comic books, it
would be difficult to frame and hence, not part of the story. The
story is in service to the new technology serving an old method and
that is fine.
SC&tWoT seemed remarkable as I had known nothing about it (saw it in
JULY at the comic con in SD). On second viewing, and putting it into
its context, I found it even more remarkable and would see it still
again... there is a lot there that is just fun, especially for the
expectant viewer.
Unfortunately, the common movie viewer may not have a 'historical
reference.' Elizabeth
17877
From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:55pm
Subject: Daney Montage "how to pass from one thing to another."
"how to pass from one thing to another."
I found this phrase interesting and was glad to find Bill Krohn's
interview in my google search of DANEY montage.
http://home.earthlink.net/~steevee/Daney_1977.html
{{OT
Unfortunately for me, most of the google references were in FRENCH.
I next searched for DANEY the montage. I figured THE the most common
English language word but apparently it is ignored by google. Next I
tried DANEY montage MOVIE... got some references.}}
BACK ON TOPIC
any other citations of "how to pass from one thing to another" would be
appreciated
Jonathan Rosenbaum on Serge Daney -- With an introduction by Adrian
Martin is found at
http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/01/13/daney.html
Of course, some of you know these articles as you wrote them! Just
passing them on to others.
Elizabeth
17878
From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:08pm
Subject: NO MISE en SCENE ... in contemporary film
A while back I made a comment about some films having
no MISE en SCENE and as no one responded to the "outlandish" statement,
I thought perhaps it would be
impossible to have a film with no Mise en Scene,
however poor / bad the mise en scene might be.
Glad to hear your REDS comment. Mise en Scene is
something I 'unconsciously note' when viewing a film, like dialogue,
acting, costume.
I wonder how long you watch a film before you notice
there is no 'mise en scene.' How far into a film would one view before
one would notice there is no character, no dialogue. You absence of
MISE EN SCENE was an after the act of viewing insight.
Why is mise en scene so hard to grasp? Because it is so rarely
employed in most contemporary film?
Elizabeth
> From Bill Krohn
> My most significant exchange with the CdC guys who
> came to L.A. to create that isue (Olivier being their
> defacto leader I guess) was my declaration that "Reds"
> had "no mise en scene" and that that was a good thing.
>
>
> They were all very shocked.
>
> I was shocked myself in that this realization came to
> me in a flash just at that moment.
17879
From: thebradstevens
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:29pm
Subject: Re: NO MISE en SCENE ... in contemporary film
"A while back I made a comment about some films having no MISE en
SCENE and as no one responded to the "outlandish" statement"
I really think it's a contradiction in terms - just another way of
saying that one finds the mise en scene in certain films bland or
uninteresting. One might as well claim that there are novels with no
language. Even if a filmmaker were to shoot a group of actors sitting
around a table reading a screenplay, there would still be mise en
scene - the table would be shot from a certain angle (which would
preclude other angles), there would be something in the background
(if if that something was total darkness), the lighting would be
either dark, light, or something in-between, etc.
I actually find the comment about REDS having no mise en scene pretty
baffling, since the film's stylistic models are so clear (mainly the
films of David Lean).
17880
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:58pm
Subject: Re: Re: NO MISE en SCENE ... in contemporary film
--- thebradstevens wrote:
> I really think it's a contradiction in terms - just
> another way of
> saying that one finds the mise en scene in certain
> films bland or
> uninteresting.
Not at all. It's (clutch the pearls) unnecessary.
One might as well claim that there
> are novels with no
> language.
Read Maurice Blanchot and then get back to me on that.
Even if a filmmaker were to shoot a group
> of actors sitting
> around a table reading a screenplay, there would
> still be mise en
> scene - the table would be shot from a certain angle
> (which would
> preclude other angles), there would be something in
> the background
> (if if that something was total darkness), the
> lighting would be
> either dark, light, or something in-between, etc.
>
True. But this would forclose any discussion of mise
en scene as formulated by Cahiers in its high days.
Sarris was very insistent on this point, dividing
which directars "had" a sense of mise en scene
(Minnelli, Ray, Cukor) and those that "didn't"
(Huston, Wyler, Kramer)
> I actually find the comment about REDS having no
> mise en scene pretty
> baffling, since the film's stylistic models are so
> clear (mainly the
> films of David Lean).
>
So many have claimed, but i don't see it at all.
"Reds" is a work of purest "bricolage" gluing scenes
shot in the Stevens mode (Provincetown) with a Russion
Revolution right out of Godard (particularly
"Masculine Feminine" and "La Chinoise")
>
>
Now put it next to Beatty's other major works --
"Bonnie and Clyde," "Shampoo," "Bugsy" and above all
"Bulworth" and you'll see what I mean.
I hope.
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17881
From: thebradstevens
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:00pm
Subject: Sidney Lumet
Does anyone else share my suspicion that Sidney Lumet is, in his way,
a genuine auteur? I know he's generally considered to be a blandly
worthwhile filmmaker, but I've long been struck by the strong
thematic ties between his films.
When one considers his body of work as a whole, one can construct a
paradigm of the 'ideal' Lumet film. In this film, an individual
(usually male) enters a world which he comes to perceive as corrupt.
Determined to expose the corruption, this individual sets in motion a
series of events over which he believes he can maintain control. This
belief is proved to by incorrect, as events spiral out of control -
the only perceivable effect of the protagonist's well-meaning efforts
has been to make an already bad siutation even worse.
The interesting thing is that, while so many Lumet films relate to
this model, few of them fit it exactly: in TWELVE ANGRY MEN (and,
more ambiguously, SERPICO, DANIEL and THE VERDICT), the protagonist
succeeds in his stated project. In PRINCE OF THE CITY, POWER and
NETWORK, he does not enter a corrupt world, but decides to expose
that corruption of which he has long been a part. In THE ANDERSON
TAPES, DOG DAY AFTERNOON and FAMILY BUSINESS, the protagonist sets
out not to expose corruption, but rather to commit a crime. In FAIL
SAFE, the protagonist is less an individual than the entire political
system which relies on nuclear deterrence.
The Lumet films which most perfectly fit the model are THE HILL, Q &
A, and the superficially atypical CHILD'S PLAY.
17882
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:27pm
Subject: Re: Sidney Lumet
--- thebradstevens wrote:
>
> Does anyone else share my suspicion that Sidney
> Lumet is, in his way,
> a genuine auteur? I know he's generally considered
> to be a blandly
> worthwhile filmmaker, but I've long been struck by
> the strong
> thematic ties between his films.
>
I would say this is most marked in his urban crime
films: "Serpico," "Prince of the City," "Dog Day
Afternoon" (his best work), "Family Business," "Q &
A," and the film sporting the ultimate Lumet title
"Night Falls on the City." In these films he's carved
out an area that's very distinctively his and his
alone.
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17883
From: thebradstevens
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:49pm
Subject: Re: NO MISE en SCENE ... in contemporary film
"But this would forclose any discussion of mise en scene as
formulated by Cahiers in its high days."
Clearly there are two ways to use the term 'mise en scene', one
evaluative, the other purely descriptive. I've always leaned towards
the latter.
"Sarris was very insistent on this point, dividing which
directors "had" a sense of mise en scene (Minnelli, Ray, Cukor) and
those that "didn't" (Huston, Wyler, Kramer)"
But Wyler's mise en scene is blatantly obvious. You need only watch a
few minutes of THE LITTLE FOXES or THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES to
know who directed them. Has anyone ever had any trouble separating
the Hawks scenes from the Wyler scenes in COME AND GET IT? I'm not
saying that his direction is interesting - merely that it is clearly
his.
""Reds" is a work of purest "bricolage" gluing scenes shot in the
Stevens mode (Provincetown) with a Russian Revolution right out of
Godard (particularly "Masculine Feminine" and "La Chinoise")"
I agree. But why is this not mise en scene? It sounds like a
perfectly valid approach.
17884
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:59pm
Subject: Re: Re: NO MISE en SCENE ... in contemporary film
--- thebradstevens wrote:
>
> But Wyler's mise en scene is blatantly obvious. You
> need only watch a
> few minutes of THE LITTLE FOXES or THE BEST YEARS OF
> OUR LIVES to
> know who directed them.
That's what Bazin would say. But to Sarris Wyler was
"impersonal."
Has anyone ever had any
> trouble separating
> the Hawks scenes from the Wyler scenes in COME AND
> GET IT?
Yep -- me.
>
> I agree. But why is this not mise en scene? It
> sounds like a
> perfectly valid approach.
>
>
Of course it's a valid approach. But it's an approach
that forecloses the view of mise en scne promulated by
"Caiers" in the 50's and continued by Sarris.
Or to Put it another way it's impossible to speak of
"Reds" in the Manner Fereydoun Hoyveda utilized to
discuss "Party Girl."
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17885
From: thebradstevens
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:02pm
Subject: Re: NO MISE en SCENE ... in contemporary film
"Has anyone ever had any trouble separating the Hawks scenes from the
Wyler scenes in COME AND GET IT?"
"Yep -- me."
Just watch for those shots in which a staircase is the focus of the
composition.
17886
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:08pm
Subject: Re: Re: NO MISE en SCENE ... in contemporary film
--- thebradstevens wrote:
>
> Just watch for those shots in which a staircase is
> the focus of the
> composition.
>
>
Minnelli and Visconti feature staircases too you know.
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17887
From: thebradstevens
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:35pm
Subject: All you need to make a film is a girl, a gun, and a staircase
"Minnelli and Visconti feature staircases too you know."
There's probably an article - hell, maybe even a book - to be written
about staircases in cinema. You'd never confuse a Wyler staircase
with a Visconti staircase or a Minnelli staircase. Not to mention a
James Whale staircase or a Nicholas Ray staircase.
17888
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:28pm
Subject: Re: All you need to make a film is a girl, a gun, and a staircase
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "thebradstevens"
wrote:
>
> "Minnelli and Visconti feature staircases too you know."
>
> There's probably an article - hell, maybe even a book - to be
written
> about staircases in cinema. You'd never confuse a Wyler staircase
> with a Visconti staircase or a Minnelli staircase. Not to mention a
> James Whale staircase or a Nicholas Ray staircase.
Here are a few!
Chion, Michel
Le cinéma est-il dans l'escalier?
Bref nr 59 (Winter 2003-2004); p 42-45
Abstract: Reflections on wheels and staircases in films.
Funck, J.
Fonctions et significations de l'escalier dans le cinéma d'Alfred
Hitchcock.
Positif nr 286 (Dec 1984); p 30-35
AB: Importance of the staircase at dramatic moments in the films of
A.H.
Lansing Smith, Evans
Framing the underworld: threshold imagery in Murnau, Cocteau, and
Bergman.
Literature/Film Quarterly Vol XXIV nr 3 (1996); p 241-254
AB: Finds parallels with the hero myth, and journeys through doorways,
windows, staircases, etc. into the underworld in "Nosferatu - eine
Symphonie des Grauens", "La belle et la bête" and
"Smultronstället".
Zielinski, Siegfried
Mentale Bilderwelten: Affirmation und überschreitung.
Filmfaust Vol XX nr 93-100 (Jan 1996); p 35-43
AB: On the symbolism of staircases in films.
Odeske' schodishte. Vyznam, promeny a variace.
Film a Doba Vol XLI nr 1 (Spring 1995); p 2-10
AB: On the use of symbolism of such features, incl. two articles on
the Odessa steps sequence of "Bronenosec Potemkin", an analysis of
video art production 'Steps', and an appraisal of the photogenic
quality of staircases and their place in the history of film.
Björkman, Stig
Trappan som biktstol.
Chaplin Vol XXV nr 4(187) (1983); p 167-169
AB: About the staircase as a symbol in the films of Hitchcock.
17889
From: Craig Keller
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:33pm
Subject: Re: Re: All you need to make a film is a girl, a gun, and a staircase
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "thebradstevens"
> wrote:
>>
>> "Minnelli and Visconti feature staircases too you know."
>>
>> There's probably an article - hell, maybe even a book - to be
> written
>> about staircases in cinema. You'd never confuse a Wyler staircase
>> with a Visconti staircase or a Minnelli staircase. Not to mention a
>> James Whale staircase or a Nicholas Ray staircase.
>
> Here are a few!
And this is from an interview with Jacques Rivette, conducted by
Frédéric Bonnaud, translated by Kent Jones, from Senses of Cinema --
http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/01/16/rivette.html --
"I'm going to make more enemies...actually the same enemies, since the
people who like Minnelli usually like Mankiewicz, too. Minnelli is
regarded as a great director thanks to the slackening of the "politique
des auteurs." For François, Jean-Luc and me, the politique consisted of
saying that there were only a few filmmakers who merited consideration
as auteurs, in the same sense as Balzac or Molière. One play by Molière
might be less good than another, but it is vital and exciting in
relation to the entire oeuvre. This is true of Renoir, Hitchcock, Lang,
Ford, Dreyer, Mizoguchi, Sirk, Ozu... But it's not true of all
filmmakers. Is it true of Minnelli, Walsh or Cukor? I don't think so.
They shot the scripts that the studio assigned them to, with varying
levels of interest. Now, in the case of Preminger, where the direction
is everything, the politique works. As for Walsh, whenever he was
intensely interested in the story or the actors, he became an auteur –
and in many other cases, he didn't. In Minnelli's case, he was
meticulous with the sets, the spaces, the light...but how much did he
work with the actors? I loved Some Came Running (1958) when it came
out, just like everybody else, but when I saw it again ten years ago I
was taken aback: three great actors and they're working in a void, with
no one watching them or listening to them from behind the camera.
"Whereas with Sirk, everything is always filmed . No matter what the
script, he's always a real director. In Written On the Wind (1956),
there's that famous Universal staircase, and it's a real character,
just like the one in Secret Défense . I chose the house where we filmed
because of the staircase. I think that's where all dramatic loose ends
come together, and also where they must resolve themselves."
craig.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
17890
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:30pm
Subject: Re: All you need to make a film is a girl, a gun, and a staircase
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
wrote:
> In Minnelli's case, he was
> meticulous with the sets, the spaces, the light...but how much did
he
> work with the actors? I loved Some Came Running (1958) when it came
> out, just like everybody else, but when I saw it again ten years
ago I
> was taken aback: three great actors and they're working in a void,
with
> no one watching them or listening to them from behind the camera.
>
Issue 63 of Cineaction provides a response to this kind of criticism
of Minnelli, arguing that decor externalizes the characters' emotions.
Stephen Harvey wrote that "Minnelli of all directors believed that
decor was the mirror of the soul." Stella Bruzzi in Cineaction writes
about "the over-determined importance accorded not just production
design but decor in particular. The emphasis on decor and design as
generators of meaning is, notwithstanding Hollywood melodrama's
pervasive tendency to explain emotional complexity through
mise-en-scene, peculiar to Minnelli... As Nowell-Smith observed, many
of Minnelli's melodramas and musicals tend towards a very specific
interrelationship between hysteria and excess; repressed emotions
'which cannot be accommodated within the action' are transferred onto
the mise-en-scene, in much the same way as, in conversion hysteria, a
repressed idea returns converted into a bodily symptom.'"
Paul
17891
From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:43pm
Subject: Re: All you need to make a film is a girl, a gun, and a staircase
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
> wrote:
> > In Minnelli's case, he was
I should point out I was quoting Rivette and not Craig Keller!
Paul
17892
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Nov 15, 2004 0:48am
Subject: Re: NO MISE en SCENE ... in contemporary film
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
>> One might as well claim that there
> > are novels with no
> > language.
>
> Read Maurice Blanchot and then get back to me on that.
>
. Not clear what you mean here, David. Although Blanchot's texts
are hardly "novels" in the usual sense, they are the apotheosis of
language. "L'Attente L'Oubli" was one of my favorite books for many
years. JPC
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
17893
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Nov 15, 2004 0:55am
Subject: Re: NO MISE en SCENE ... in contemporary film
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> Or to Put it another way it's impossible to speak of
> "Reds" in the Manner Fereydoun Hoyveda utilized to
> discuss "Party Girl."
>
>
> The amazing and very funny thing about FH's "Party Girl" article
is that he spent most of it pointing out weaknesses in the film then
saying that's why the film was really great.
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
> www.yahoo.com
17894
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon Nov 15, 2004 0:58am
Subject: Re: Re: NO MISE en SCENE ... in contemporary film
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
> >
> . Not clear what you mean here, David. Although
> Blanchot's texts
> are hardly "novels" in the usual sense, they are the
> apotheosis of
> language. "L'Attente L'Oubli" was one of my favorite
> books for many
> years. JPC
>
As usual you have exquisite taste.
What I was implying through Blanchot has to do with
the fact that literature isn't necessairily moored to
meaning -- as Derrida points out in his book on
Blanchot.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com
17895
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:00am
Subject: Re: Re: NO MISE en SCENE ... in contemporary film
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
> > The amazing and very funny thing about FH's "Party
> Girl" article
> is that he spent most of it pointing out weaknesses
> in the film then
> saying that's why the film was really great.
> >
>
Prescisely. And it's sheer wackiness is why I've
always found it so appealing.
>
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com
17896
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:08am
Subject: Re: NO MISE en SCENE ... in contemporary film
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
>
> > >
> > . Not clear what you mean here, David. Although
> > Blanchot's texts
> > are hardly "novels" in the usual sense, they are the
> > apotheosis of
> > language. "L'Attente L'Oubli" was one of my favorite
> > books for many
> > years. JPC
> >
> As usual you have exquisite taste.
>
> What I was implying through Blanchot has to do with
> the fact that literature isn't necessairily moored to
> meaning -- as Derrida points out in his book on
> Blanchot.
>
>
> How delightful to get an instant response of such high
caliber! But what is "meaning"? Every sentence of Blanchot's, no
matter how opaque and contradictory it may seem, makes
perfect "sense" at the proper level. And by the way, "L'Attente
L'Oubli" is the most beautiful modern-post-modern love story. In a
way it changed my life. Guess this is OT... JPC
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
> www.yahoo.com
17897
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:10am
Subject: Re: NO MISE en SCENE ... in contemporary film
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
>
> > > The amazing and very funny thing about FH's "Party
> > Girl" article
> > is that he spent most of it pointing out weaknesses
> > in the film then
> > saying that's why the film was really great.
> > >
> >
> Prescisely. And it's sheer wackiness is why I've
> always found it so appealing.
> >
> >
> > Of course of course. But then again...
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
> www.yahoo.com
17898
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:19am
Subject: Re: Daney Montage "how to pass from one thing to another."
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Nolan wrote:
> "how to pass from one thing to another."
>
> I found this phrase interesting and was glad to find Bill Krohn's
> interview in my google search of DANEY montage.
> http://home.earthlink.net/~steevee/Daney_1977.html
>
>
> The phrase is a statement of the obvious. The art of cinema is
nothing but passing from one thing to the other. But often the
obvious has to be re-stated because most people lose sight of it.
The French is, I think, "passer d'une chose a une autre." That is
also what life is all about. JPC
17899
From: jaketwilson
Date: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:47am
Subject: The Stupids
Just watched this again. It made me think further about Bill's
characterisation of Landis as a Bazinian, as well as the "comedy and
perception" section we recently ran in Senses of Cinema. This
included a piece by David C which struck me as echoing some of
Bazin's thoughts on the topic (am I right, David?) particularly the
idea that gags shouldn't be oversold with editing, camera angles,
etc. We also had a couple of pieces drawing on Noel Carroll's theory
of the sight gag as depending on multiple perceptual hypotheses taken
from the same visual data. THE STUPIDS illustrates both points in
just about every scene – despite the cartoony pastel decor,
everything has to be framed straight-on in order to lend at least
minimal plausibility to the family's fallacious interpretations. So
when the cartoon pets start gesticulating it's as if they're
appealing to the kids in the audience over the head of the filmmaker
(a bit like those picture books where the text fails to "notice"
what's happening in the illustrations). Anyway I love the script's
blend of non-sequiturs (arms dealers in a kids film?) with iron-clad
logic, and Arnold is very underrated -- not many US comic actors have
his total lack of vanity.
Another modern Bazinian, surely, is Apitchapong Weerasethakul, and
something clicked for me when I watched ANIMAL HOUSE around the same
time as TROPICAL MALADY: both directors get peculiar effects from
apparent stylistic inertia, as if they were deliberately avoiding
building up each scene, or just couldn't be bothered. The feeling of
succumbing to entropy is the basis of a lot of Landis' comedy, both
the orgies of destruction and the flat, sarcastically literal
presentation of scenes and objects. Like Frank Oz's jailhouse clerk
at the start of THE BLUES BROTHERS, enumerating the prisoner's
worldly goods: "One hat...black."
JTW
17900
From: magaroulian
Date: Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:29am
Subject: Hitchcock
Its non-conclusion (2 lines) may be controversial, but anyway here is
my report on Patrick McGilligan's 'Alfred Hitchcock: A Life in
Darkness and Light' (2003):
http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~muffin/mcgilligan1_c.html
http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~muffin/mcgilligan2_c.html
Bring a cut-lunch.
- Ken Mogg
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