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18801


From:
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:22pm
Subject: Re: Missing films in IMDB
 
> This database is also weak on British documentary films.
> Could not find one of my favorite films in it:
> The Tribal Eye (1976)
> This is a five-part documentary on so-called "primitive art" made
by various
> tribal groups around the world. It stars Sir David Attenborough,
and MIGHT be
> directed by him - although I am going from my 1970's memories.
> And there is no mention of:
> Miss Goodall and the Wild Chimpanzees (Hugo van Lawick, circa 1965)
> one of the best of all nature documentaries.
>


It's fun to grouse about omissions and inaccuracies, but the IMDB is
partly a users' database. In other words, if you see a missing film,
you should just *submit* it to them as a title. If you see a
mistake, you should *submit* it as a correction. It's not that hard.
I do it all the time with Italian and Turkish films, and it only
takes a couple of minutes. It may take a while for the changes to
take effect, and they always want to make sure you have confirmed,
specific information, but they're quite thorough. That's the only
way to improve the system -- you can't expect their editors to know
every single film/TV show ever made or shown.

-Bilge
18802


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:24pm
Subject: Re: 8 1/2 and its influence
 
--- MG4273@a... wrote:

>
> 8 1/2 was proposed as an influence on "The Aviator"

Having seen "The Aviator" I would say only in the
opening scene. The nightclub scnes might be called
"Felliniesque" but the resources put at this film's
disposal are farin advance of Fellini's.


the finale of 8
> 1/2 was the model for the endings of some other
> films I treasure:
> Places in the Heart (Robert Benton, 1984) the
> Communion sequence
> Longtime Companion (Norman René, 1990) the scene on
> the beach
> De-Lovely (Irwin Winkler, 2004) the "Blow, Gabriel,
> Blow" number
>

I'm with you on "Longtime Companion," though the mood
there is tragic rather than bittersweet/nostalgic.


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18803


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: 8 1/2 and its influence
 
--- Matthew Clayfield
wrote:


> It certainly wouldn't surprise me given Scorsese's
> love of the
> picture; I'm reminded, of course, of the ending to
> his student film
> IT'S NOT JUST YOU, MURRAY! (1964), which pretty much
> steals 8 1/2's
> ending for itself [unoriginal, yes, but lovingly
> so].
>
Actually it's kind of a parody/hommage. A direct steal
would be "All That Jazz," But then Fosse's feelings
about women are very much in line with Fellini's --
albeit of a far more sexually expressive sort.

> Coincidentally, a number of people have been citing
> 8 1/2 as an
> influence on THE LIFE AQUATIC as of late as well.
>

I can't quite see that. Perhaps because it was shot in
Italy?

As has previously been pointed out that film's primary
influences are Ophuls and Jerry Lewis.
>




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18804


From: Matthew Clayfield
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:41pm
Subject: Re: 8 1/2 and its influence
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:

> Actually it's kind of a parody/hommage.

Well, yeah. And, then, more homage than parody.

> I can't quite see that. Perhaps because it was shot in
> Italy?

Perhaps.

To be honest, though, I've not actually seen TLA yet [it doesn't
open here until March!] and I'm currently just going off what I've
heard and read around the traps.

18805


From:
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:41am
Subject: Re: 8 1/2 and its influence
 
In a message dated 04-12-11 09:44:20 EST, Matthew Clayfield writes:

<< I've not actually seen The Life Aquatic yet [it doesn't open here until
March!] >>

Who knows when it opens here in Detroit!
I am really tired of the condescension of film distributors towards Michigan.
They always open films first in New York and LA, then roll them out months
later here.
We are not a remote region. Detroit is a city of 4 million people! Michigan
as a whole is as large as Great Britain. We have huge universities, art cinemas
galore, are one of the biggest book buying regions in the world.
One suspects that most film distributors have never been here. They think we
are Ma and Pa Kettle, and only want to see films with machine guns. Actually,
I spent a happy Monday night at the Detroit Film Theater last fall, watching
"Dragnet Girl" (Ozu, silent, 1933) with a large crowd.

Mike Grost
PS. There was a reference in someone's post to the Midwest being full of red
states. Michigan, like much of the Midwest, is a BLUE state (Democrats, Kerry
supporters). Perhaps because people here are highly educated.
18806


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:50pm
Subject: Re: 8 1/2 and its influence
 
> the finale of 8
>> 1/2 was the model for the endings of some other
>> films I treasure:
>> Places in the Heart (Robert Benton, 1984) the
>> Communion sequence
>> Longtime Companion (Norman Rene, 1990)
>
> I'm with you on "Longtime Companion," though the mood
> there is tragic rather than bittersweet/nostalgic.

To pull two threads together: my recollection is that Rene was originally
intended to direct THE SECRET LIFE OF DENTISTS before he died. Craig
Lucas, who adapted DENTISTS from a Jane Smiley work, had written all of
Rene's films. - Dan
18807


From: hotlove666
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:25pm
Subject: Re: Frenzy (Was: Film violence)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:

>
> Hmmm. I wonder if that spittle would have saved the scene. I
adore
> Hitchcock, and think that his innate sadism is generally deployed
in the
> most valuable ways, but I've always felt that that scene in FRENZY
got
> away from him and turned into jerk-off material. - Dan

The spittle would probably have made it work for you. As jerk-off
material goes, it's pretty tame compared to other examples that come
to mind. Also, remember that you like sex and don't like killing, so
naturally you'll feel different things watching this than watching
Gromek's murder.

BTW, I just watched some Griffith 2-reelers, and I'm starting to ee
why he poses a problem for you. It's not just political - it has to
do with the acting.
18808


From: hotlove666
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:31pm
Subject: Re: 8 1/2 and its influence
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > the finale of 8
> >> 1/2 was the model for the endings of some other
> >> films I treasure:
> >> Places in the Heart (Robert Benton, 1984) the
> >> Communion sequence
> >> Longtime Companion (Norman Rene, 1990)
> >
I think the great tribute to 8 1/2, because the influence of the film
runs deep in it, not on the surface, is ENEMIES, A LOVE STORY.
18809


From:
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:40pm
Subject: Re: 8 1/2 and its influence
 
Mike Grost:

>
>
> Who knows when [THE LIFE AQUATIC] opens here in Detroit!
>

December 25th, I believe, along with the rest of the country, no?

> I am really tired of the condescension of film distributors
towards Michigan.
> They always open films first in New York and LA, then roll them
out months
> later here.
> We are not a remote region. Detroit is a city of 4 million people!
>

Yeah, the whole rollout thing can sometimes be a bit condescending
and frustrating. In the studios' defense, though, during this mid-
late December season, I think a lot of this has to do with making
sure the films get to the Academy voters, who tend to be
concentrated in NY and LA. (I'm assuming this is why THE AVIATOR's
initial limited run also includes Park City, UT, which is a popular
holiday spot for Hollywood?)

-Bilge
18810


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:49pm
Subject: Re: Re: 8 1/2 and its influence
 
--- hotlove666 wrote:


> I think the great tribute to 8 1/2, because the
> influence of the film
> runs deep in it, not on the surface, is ENEMIES, A
> LOVE STORY.
>
Interesting you should mention that one, as Mazursky
is a great Fellini fan and his more obvious "8 1/2" is
"Alex in Wonderland."




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18811


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: 8 1/2 and its influence
 
> Interesting you should mention that one, as Mazursky
> is a great Fellini fan and his more obvious "8 1/2" is
> "Alex in Wonderland."

Which, as I recall, people used to call "1 1/2." - Dan
18812


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:24pm
Subject: Re: Re: Frenzy (Was: Film violence)
 
>> Hmmm. I wonder if that spittle would have saved the scene. I
> adore
>> Hitchcock, and think that his innate sadism is generally deployed
> in the
>> most valuable ways, but I've always felt that that scene in FRENZY
> got
>> away from him and turned into jerk-off material. - Dan
>
> The spittle would probably have made it work for you. As jerk-off
> material goes, it's pretty tame compared to other examples that come
> to mind.

It's tame, sure. And it would be just like Hitchcock to lure the audience
with something prurient and then complicate it. I just don't register
enough complication here. (In the genre of sadistic pornography, spittle
would just be part of the paraphernalia, I think.) I imagine that Hitch
thought he would disturb us by taking the murder of a sympathetic
character and turning it into an erotic spectacle that made us identify
with the killer. But, unfortunately, murder and eroticism go together
like ham and eggs.

> Also, remember that you like sex and don't like killing, so
> naturally you'll feel different things watching this than watching
> Gromek's murder.

But Gromek's murder is handled quite differently, no? Even if Gromek had
been sexualized like Leigh-Hunt's character, there's no turn-on to be had
for most people from a botched or incomplete murder - I imagine that
nearly all audience members say to themselves, quite urgently, "Get this
killing over with! Finish him off, please!" And Hitch puts a lot of
emphasis on the panic and anxiety of the inept, audience-surrogate
killers.

> BTW, I just watched some Griffith 2-reelers, and I'm starting to ee why
> he poses a problem for you. It's not just political - it has to do with
> the acting.

It's not politics per se, but in some sense I'm bothered by a kind of
dull, one-sided force behind his ideological assumptions, big and small.
The acting...I dunno. I do perceive the nuance in his acting, and even
more what Sarris called the psychological accountibility of the
performances. But, because Griffith is Griffith, I sense a bedrock of
simple tendentiousness underneath the complexity. - Dan
18813


From: Robert Keser
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:32pm
Subject: Re: Missing films in IMDB
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:

> And there is no mention of:
> Miss Goodall and the Wild Chimpanzees (Hugo van Lawick, circa 1965)
> one of the best of all nature documentaries.

I always like to double-check with All Movie Guide (although they
apparently downsized Hal Erickson out of his job last year) because
it often has reasonable descriptions of both films and filmmakers.

In this case, AMG lists the Jane Goodall film, only under the title
AMONG THE WILD CHIMPANZEES, at
http://www.allmovie.com/cg/avg.dll?p=avg&sql=1:34520

--Robert Keser
18814


From:
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:57pm
Subject: Re: Bert I. Gordon question
 
That sounds amazing! I must confess that I've not seen the film and I've
barely even heard of Bert I. Gordon; have you seen anything else by him
containing comparable artistry?

Peter


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
18815


From: thebradstevens
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:52pm
Subject: Re: Jim McBride
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>

> Never heard of it. Perhaps it was a version of the
> never-filmed "August/September" that Jim and Kit
> planned to make way back when.
>


I hadn't heard of this project, so I asked Jim about it. Here's what
he told me:

"I had nothing to do with it. It was some goofy thing that involved
some of (Kit Carson's) brothers and Michael Pollard. I recall
visiting the location one day and it was all complete confusion."
18816


From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: Jim McBride
 
McBride did one of the segments for Welcome to São Paulo, a film that
premiered with a rough cut, shown in digital video, on the Mostra
Internacional. It was, by far, the best segment (and it had Tsai Ming-liang,
Amos Gitai, among others). It starts with kids playing in the streets, but
then focuses on how the landscape is painted: Sao Paulo's strange graffiti,
writings on walls, houses being painted, outdoor and huger pub spots. How
humans make their inscriptions in the inhuman cold walls of the city.

----- Original Message -----
From: "thebradstevens"
To:
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:37 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Jim McBride


>
>
> UK-based members of this group (are there any apart from me?) May
> like to know that Jim McBride's wonderful television film DEAD BY
> MIDNIGHT is playing on BBC1 tomorrow night.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
18817


From: peckinpah20012000
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:59pm
Subject: Re: Film violence and Day of the Dead [was: Now you know ...]
 
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
> wrote:
> > Actually, the planned ending of the trilogy, also called DAY OF
> THE
> > DEAD, was an epic about a world where zombies coexist with
humans
> who
> > live in a fortress fascist state - the end result of the
> experiments
> > Mary is carrying out in the version of DAY that got made.
>
> What's annoying is that every link you look for leads to that
> particular screenplay (the original DAY script) and not to some
> transcript of the actual film Romero did--wouldn't it be nice to
> have both available?
>
> Actually, I wonder about LAND OF THE DEAD, or if maybe the script
> changes weren't some kind of fortuitous event. By scaling the
story
> down to a single bunker with a handful of men, I felt that Romero
> concentrated the juices, so to speak, and maybe came up with a
more
> flavorful brew.
>
> For the record, not even George Romero has the original DAY OF
THE DEAD screenplay since he and Chris searched for it over five
years ago. A second version does exist which does contain more of
the original plot elements which never made it into DAY. Naturally,
George's former partner is unhelpful over this matter since he is
responsible for refusing to allow theatrical versions of the Laurel
films to Be screened. Thus none of the Laurel films from MARTIN to
DAY OF THE DEAD could be screened at the 2000 George Romero season
at the Chicago Siskel Arts Center, even when the Harvard Film
Archive offered to loan their 35mm copy of DAWN.

I have an idea that LAND OF THE DEAD may contain those original
ideas concentrated in a "flavorful brew." We shall see.

Tony Williams
18818


From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:59pm
Subject: Re: Marker / Cahiers
 
It was encoded from the television and can already be reached through your
preferred peer-to-peer software. Unsubtitled. Bergman's Sarabande is also
available, with spanish subtitles.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Samuel Bréan"
To:
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: [a_film_by] Marker / Cahiers


>
> >On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 14:11:08 -0500, Craig Keller
> >wrote:
> >
> > > Chris Marker has a new work out, of which I was unaware -- 'Chats
> > > perchés.' It premiered last week at the Centre Pompidou --
> >
> >It was subsequently shown on TV and also released on DVD. Marker
> >(a.k.a. M. Chat) also guest edited an issue of Libération, mainly
> >adding random cats to several pages. Apparently you could assemble
> >some of the pages to make a template for your own graffiti cat. There
> >was also an interview in the issue.
>
> Here's the interview:
> http://liberation.fr/page.php?Article=259141
>
> Here are some details about the DVD:
>
http://www.artefrance.fr/boutique/produit/fiche_produit.cfm?id_article=19591
39
>
>
> CHATS PERCHES is a very refreshing work. I'll try to put up some comments
> about it after seeing it a second time.
>
> Samuel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
18819


From: peckinpah20012000
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:07pm
Subject: Re: 8 1/2 and its influence
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 04-12-11 09:44:20 EST, Matthew Clayfield writes:
>
> << I've not actually seen The Life Aquatic yet [it doesn't open
here until
> March!] >>
>
> > One suspects that most film distributors have never been here.
They think we
> are Ma and Pa Kettle, and only want to see films with machine
guns. Actually,
> I spent a happy Monday night at the Detroit Film Theater last
fall, watching
> "Dragnet Girl" (Ozu, silent, 1933) with a large crowd.
>
> Mike Grost
>
However, Mike, despite complaints you are must better off than
living in the southern Illinois university town of Carbondale which
makes the location in BAD DAY AT BLACK ROCK resemble Athen in the
golden Age of Pericles. The two main cinemas are dominated by the
monopolistic Kerasotes chain who closed down all the cheap dollar
cinemas, raised matinee prices to 50 cents below the evening rate,
run POLAR EXPRESS in four out of the seven screens, and have a
clause about the resale of former movie houses stating that that
they are not to be used for screening films!

Thus, apart from rare "art cinema" screenings of HERO, MOTOCYCLE
DIARIES, CALENDAR GIRLS, things are grim.

At least you have Ozu in Michigan!

Tony Williams

Tony Williams
18820


From: thebradstevens
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:07pm
Subject: Re: Jim McBride
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Ruy Gardnier"
wrote:
> McBride did one of the segments for Welcome to São Paulo, a film
that
> premiered with a rough cut, shown in digital video, on the Mostra
> Internacional. It was, by far, the best segment (and it had Tsai
Ming-liang,
> Amos Gitai, among others). It starts with kids playing in the
streets, but
> then focuses on how the landscape is painted: Sao Paulo's strange
graffiti,
> writings on walls, houses being painted, outdoor and huger pub
spots. How
> humans make their inscriptions in the inhuman cold walls of the
city.

That's something I didn't know about. Jim certainly never mentioned
it. I sent him what I thought was a complete filmography that I'd
established, and asked him if there was anything missing. He did
mention an advert that he'd shot at one point, but certainly didn't
mention this! I'll ask him about it.

Is there anything else you can tell me about this? Was it made
recently. Any idea where I could find a copy?
18821


From:
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:31pm
Subject: Re: Re: Wes Anderson's New Film
 
In a message dated 12/10/04 5:07:01 PM, sallitt@p... writes:


> Then I revisited RUSHMORE, and was still a bit bothered at how the film
> seemed to be getting a lot of
> pleasure out of the smart power games that Max played on the other
> characters.
>
Exactly, Dan! RUSHMORE has a rep for creating this sweet, gentle utopia but I
couldn't get past those smart power games, apparent in everything from the
hipper-than-thou soundtrack to the way the female lead was passed around like a
basketball (I cannot recall the character's name nor the actress who played
her which is no surprise given her one-dimensional role in the film).

Still, I was quite taken with both BOTTLE ROCKET and THE ROYAL TENNENBAUMS so
I have high hopes for the new one.

Kevin John




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
18822


From:
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:26pm
Subject: J-P's moving post (WAS: Not with a Bang)
 
J-P, thanks for your very lovely and moving post below. It was the first
thing I read after finding out a cinephile acquaintance of mine in Spain died
recently in a car accident. So your words hit me pretty hard.

As someone extremely cognizant of his mortality, I am always thinking about
the fact that Gary Cooper, Fredric March and Miriam Hopkins, to choose a recent
reverie, are no longer with us. Cinema is sweet in this way in that it offers
an eternal present as a memory capsule. But paradoxically, it's also sad if
not downright manipulative in that it mimics our frequently self-absorbed sense
that our presents/presence will be eternal.

Kevin John

<<  I can't see an old movie (a silent, or something from the thirties
or forties) without at some point mulling over the fact that: all
these people are dead, or at least most of them, and it is at the
same time a very sad and very exhilarating feeling. They are gone,
but they survive, forever or almost, and this is the miracle of
cinema. Which we take for granted but would have been an incredible
miracle to people of pre-cinema times.

  We just should try not to take miracles for granted.

JP>>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
18823


From: Zach Campbell
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 0:02am
Subject: Re: Wes Anderson's New Film
 
Some RUSHMORE spoilers.

> Exactly, Dan! RUSHMORE has a rep for creating this sweet, gentle
> utopia but I couldn't get past those smart power games

Oh, Dan is totally on to something. But that's part of what the
movie is about! Max's (and Herman's) maturation is inscribed onto
the viewer in that the early part of the film involves taking
pleasure from harsh and petty power games, and the second part of
the film involves taking pleasure from the acknowledgment of
immaturity and the subsequent acts of reconciliation, humility, and
generosity.

This is something I didn't quite get the first time I saw RUSHMORE,
which is why I was so disappointed that the power games were anti-
climactic and "didn't go anyway" but have grown convinced of in
later viewings.

> the way the female lead was passed around like a
> basketball (I cannot recall the character's name nor the actress
> who played her which is no surprise given her one-dimensional role
> in the film).

I have to strongly, strongly disagree here.

Again, the movie is largely about how both Max and Herman *wish*
they could pass Ms. Cross (played by the excellent Olivia Williams)
around like a basketball, and slowly realize that they won't, can't,
and shouldn't. As Ms. Cross tells Max (paraphrasing): "You [and
Herman] are both perfect for each other. You're both little
children." Her character *explicitly* rejects the notion that she
is an object (both a literal object to be passed around, and the
object of Max/Herman's fantasies ... though they're sorta the same
thing.) She's a woman confronted with two men who openly project an
obsessive and self-centered infatuation with her; and yet she
exercises her freedom to sleep with and date whomever she chooses,
or no one at all, and at the end of the film she's with neither Max
nor Herman.

Take another look at RUSHMORE sometime, Kevin; I hope you'll feel
differently.

--Zach
18824


From: Zach Campbell
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 0:11am
Subject: Any Michael Rubbo fans?
 
Recently saw a few Canadian documentaries by Australian-born Michael
Rubbo--best known, I suppose, for his Shakespeare documentary MUCH
ADO ABOUT SOMETHING from a few years back (which I didn't see).

WAITING FOR FIDEL ('73) is particularly sharp. It's an hour-long
portrait of two (and a half) men who wait for a scheduled interview
with Fidel Castro that never comes. One is former Newfoundland
socialist politician Joey Smallwood, and the other is capitalist
media exec Geoff Sterling. The "half" man is Rubbo himself, who
keeps himself in the picture but sidelined, and swings politically
like a pendulum between Sterling and Smallwood. (His on-camera role
is more active here than in SAD SONG OF YELLOW SKIN, which looks at
Saigon and tackles political issues more obliquely.) What I like
about WAITING FOR FIDEL, aside from the way it produces a rather
strong energy from gentle editing rhythms, is its intelligent
handling of 'opposing' political philosophies, where both Joey and
Geoff can point directly at aspects of the Cuban society around them
to make their points about a larger and more abstract ideology.

And as one Dennis G. Barnes of the IMDB says, "The films title was
later parodied in Christopher Guest's film Waiting for Guffman."

Yes.

--Zach
18825


From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 0:46am
Subject: Re: 8 1/2 and its influence
 
Bilge:

> Yeah, the whole rollout thing can sometimes be a bit
condescending
> and frustrating. In the studios' defense, though, during this
mid-
> late December season, I think a lot of this has to do with
making
> sure the films get to the Academy voters, who tend to be
> concentrated in NY and LA. (I'm assuming this is why THE
AVIATOR's
> initial limited run also includes Park City, UT, which is a
popular
> holiday spot for Hollywood?)

Yeah, if you look at the DGA, BAFTA, Academy, etc. etc., notices
there are more screenings in Palm Springs and Maui than in
Chicago, London, and other major cities that aren't New YOrk or
LA.

Gabe
18826


From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:00am
Subject: Re: Bert I. Gordon question
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
> That sounds amazing! I must confess that I've not seen the
film and I've
> barely even heard of Bert I. Gordon; have you seen anything
else by him
> containing comparable artistry?

The Sitges festival did a retrospective in '97 where i had the good
fortune to meet Bert I. Gordon. I asked him to sign my
Psychotronic guide, which he had never seen or heard of, but i
would say it's probably the authoritative source on Gordon --
even though Mike Weldon (the editor) is about as reliable as the
IMDb as far as facts go...

Gordon films I remember liking: Beginning of the End (giant
ants, if i remember correctly), The Amazing Colossal Man (a
Psychotronic favorite!), Earth Vs. The Spider (great high school
dance sequence interrupted by giant spider attack), some
others. I wish I had my catalogue with me; it's still in boxes.

Gordon made some fun films, and some pretty putrid ones... in
person he was disappointing -- but this may be of interest to you,
Peter: Orson Welles and Gordon worked with one another
(actually, you probably know this already), and Welles insisted
on wearing a fake beard so no one would recognize him in the
film. Can't remember the title.

Gabe
18827


From:
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:09pm
Subject: Re: The Sick Film Critic Experiment (Michael Haneke/Blake Edwards, 2004)
 
In a message dated 12/7/04 5:04:34 PM, apmartin@n... writes:


> Kevin, this is definitely a new genre I WANT TO HEAR MORE ABOUT!
>
> There's surely an essay to be written about "sick film critic experiments"!
> Experiments in terror, maybe? Funny games?
>

Apologies for the late reply, Adrian. Sadly, I can think of tons of sick rock
critic experiments (Shania Twain's glorious COME ON OVER immediately springs
to mind) but I'm drawing a blank on sick film critic experiments beyond
TRIXIE, of course. I mean, what the freak is that film's raison d'etre? To see what
would happen if you inserted a wise-craking heroine maudit into a pretty
conventonal noir storyline?

I've never seen EXPERIMENT IN TERROR but I suppose FUNNY GAMES would count as
a failed experiment or a poorly conceived one (I LOATHE that movie!). I
originally thought the wacky personal film (to use Kehr's coinage) would fit here.
But INVADERS FROM MARS (1953), THE NINTH CONFIGURATION and (a reverent silence
for) SOME CALL IT LOVING don't come off as experiments.

Any suggestions? (One sick film critic experiment that doesn't exist is
Monika Treut's THE SEDUCTION. Eons ago, a friend rented Treut's SEDUCTION: THE
CRUEL WOMAN. He got THE SEDUCTION starring Morgan Fairchild instead. As is my
wont, I asked him what he would do if he discovered that the torrid Morgan
Fairchild epic was indeed the Monika Treut film he sought and that Treut had simply
appropriated the entire film as her own. THAT would have been a sick film
critic experiment.)

Kevin John


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
18828


From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:11am
Subject: Re: Bert I. Gordon p.s.
 
The scene in Earth vs. the Spider that I mentioned in my last post
is even better than how I described it: a giant, dormant spider is
found in a small town and the cops keep it in a high school
gymnasium. One day some kid starts playing music and several
teens start dancing and rocking out around the spider. It
suddenly awakens, of course, and the teens are terrified.

At least I think this is Earth vs. the Spider. Someone correct me if
they have seen this in another movie.

Gabe
18829


From: Aaron Graham
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:24am
Subject: Re: Wes Anderson's New Film
 
> I have to strongly, strongly disagree here.
>
> Again, the movie is largely about how both Max and Herman *wish*
> they could pass Ms. Cross (played by the excellent Olivia Williams)
> around like a basketball, and slowly realize that they won't,
can't,
> and shouldn't. As Ms. Cross tells Max (paraphrasing): "You [and
> Herman] are both perfect for each other. You're both little
> children." Her character *explicitly* rejects the notion that she
> is an object (both a literal object to be passed around, and the
> object of Max/Herman's fantasies ... though they're sorta the same
> thing.) She's a woman confronted with two men who openly project
an
> obsessive and self-centered infatuation with her; and yet she
> exercises her freedom to sleep with and date whomever she chooses,
> or no one at all, and at the end of the film she's with neither Max
> nor Herman.
> --Zach

I'd have to agree with Zach here. The key scene in which Ms. Cross
rejects this notion would be the one where she finally confronts Max
(finally ruining his idealization of her) by bringing up the reality
of the situation and speaking in explicit terms regarding sexual acts.

At any rate, I think it's a wonderful film and better than
Anderson's "Royal Tenenbaums".

-Aaron
18830


From:
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:32pm
Subject: Re: 8 1/2 and its influence
 
These points about how lucky we are in Detroit are well taken!
I just had a momentary attack of Aviator-envy! (Freud planned a whole volume
about Aviator-envy as a motivating force, but it never got published).
Actually, every year it gets easier to see movies, especially now that DVD
has come along. I should be grateful for our opportunities, and try to write
more and better about the cinema!

Mike Grost
18831


From:
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:35pm
Subject: Re: J-P's moving post (WAS: Not with a Bang)
 
This was a very moving thought, indeed.
It lifted my spirits to read.
Thank you,

Mike Grost
18832


From: Zach Campbell
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:40am
Subject: Re: Wes Anderson's New Film
 
Aaron:
> At any rate, I think it's a wonderful film and better than
> Anderson's "Royal Tenenbaums".

I've yet to see the new one, but yeah, RUSHMORE probably counts as
my favorite. I dunno, I still really like Anderson and admire his
work. My tastes have gone through some sea changes over the last
several years but I remain impressed with his films, which I always
feel are more complex than people give them credit for, and (to my
eyes) usually have built within them a critique of whatever aspect
people tend the knock the movies for.

Gabe made a good point earlier addressing the issue of how much we
are to expect from our filmmakers. Does Wes Anderson give us
enough? I don't know. Possibly not. David O. Russell is probably
much more relevant as far as the current young turks of H'wood go.
But I see him as this really fascinating figure (and not an immature
one, or at least no more immature than anyone else in Hollywood's
small stable of "auteurs"). He's maybe like contemporary
Hollywood's funhouse mirror equivalent of Sacha Guitry or Rene
Clair: playful, a bit repetitive in his films (I'm only presuming
for Guitry having seen one for myself), but deeper and more
critically-minded than a cursory glance would suggest ...

--Zach
18833


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:20am
Subject: Re: 8 1/2 and its influence
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- hotlove666 wrote:
>
>
> > I think the great tribute to 8 1/2, because the
> > influence of the film
> > runs deep in it, not on the surface, is ENEMIES, A
> > LOVE STORY.
> >
> Interesting you should mention that one, as Mazursky
> is a great Fellini fan and his more obvious "8 1/2" is
> "Alex in Wonderland."

That was an imitation; ENEMIES is a critique. The women in 8 1/2 are
projections of Fellini's A-[sa]-ni-[si]-ma; the ones in ENEMIES are
real, and outlive Herman on the screen.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more.
> http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com
18834


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:22am
Subject: Re: Frenzy (Was: Film violence)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
I do perceive the nuance in his acting, and even
> more what Sarris called the psychological accountibility of the
> performances. But, because Griffith is Griffith, I sense a bedrock
of
> simple tendentiousness underneath the complexity. - Dan

A-fucking-men to that!
18835


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:28am
Subject: Re: Bert I. Gordon question
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
> That sounds amazing! I must confess that I've not seen the film
and I've
> barely even heard of Bert I. Gordon; have you seen anything else by
him
> containing comparable artistry?

No. But there's always something...

Here's what a director who has paid extensive tribute to Gordon's
oeuvre said in reply to my question about TORMENTED:

I'm sure the shot was in the script.
Isn't there something similar in The Uninvited?

Even his better pix (The Mad Bomber, Tormented) are several notches
below competent.>

Anyway, that tracking shot is as amazing as it sounds, despite the
usual sub-par FX.
18836


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:31am
Subject: Re: Film violence and Day of the Dead [was: Now you know ...]
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "peckinpah20012000"
wrote:
> >
> > For the record, not even George Romero has the original DAY OF
> THE DEAD screenplay since he and Chris searched for it over five
> years ago. A second version does exist which does contain more of
> the original plot elements which never made it into DAY. Naturally,
> George's former partner is unhelpful over this matter since he is
> responsible for refusing to allow theatrical versions of the Laurel
> films to Be screened. Thus none of the Laurel films from MARTIN to
> DAY OF THE DEAD could be screened at the 2000 George Romero season
> at the Chicago Siskel Arts Center, even when the Harvard Film
> Archive offered to loan their 35mm copy of DAWN.
>
> I have A screenplay for the epic version of DAY that came from GR.
John Carpenter reportedly keeps a copy under his desk as a totem.
18837


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:38am
Subject: Re: J-P's moving post (WAS: Not with a Bang)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:
> <<  I can't see an old movie (a silent, or something from the
thirties
> or forties) without at some point mulling over the fact that: all
> these people are dead...

Me too, watching the Grifiths recently, for example. It may go with
the insight - which for me came with advancing age - that other
people exist and have whole lives of their own. As children we see
them as phantoms, like the people in movies.

I've always loved the title of Martin Amis's experimental
novel, "Other People: A Mysery Story." Of course that's also what
Cavell's on about all the time, but always using abstractions that
don't trigger any questions for me.
18838


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:40am
Subject: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways"
 
The Los Angeles Film Critics Association Vote for Best
of 2004:

Best Score : "The Incredible" (runner-up "Birth")

Best Production Design: Dante Feretti "The Aviator"
(runner-up "House of Flying Daggers")

Best Supporting Actress: Virginia Madsen,"Sideways"
(runner-up: Cate Blanchett "Coffee and Cigarettes" and
"The Aviator")

Best Screenplay: "Sideays" (runner-up "Eternal
Sunshine of the Spotless Mind")

Best Cinematography: "Collateral" (runner-up "House of
Flying Daggers")

Best Director: Alexander Payne (runner-up Martin
Scorsese)

Best Actress: Imelda Stauton, " Vera Drake" (runner-up
Julie Delpy "Before Sunset")

Best Actor: Liam Neason "Kinsey" (runner-up Paul
Giamatti "Sideways")

Best Picture:"Sideways" (runner-up "million Dollar
Baby")

Best Foreign Film: "House of Flying Daggers"
(runner-up "The Motorcycle Diaries")

Best Documentary: "Born into Brothels" (runner-up
"Fahrenheit 9/11")

Best Animation: "The Incredibles"

Independent/Experimental Award: "Ken Jacobs "Star
Spangled to Death"

New Generation Award: Joshua Marston and Catalina
Sandino Moreno "Maria Full of Grace"

Special Award: Richard Schikel, the reconstruction of
Samuel Fuller's "The Big Red One."



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com
18839


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:45am
Subject: Soldier's Pay: (Was: Any Michael Rubbo fans?)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Zach Campbell"
wrote:
>
No, but I'll seek out FIDEL and SAD SONG based on your description.

Re: docs. My favorite film seen at Torino, David O. Russell's
SOLDIER'S PAY (30 min.), is now available on the new edition of
UNCOVERED, the Robert Greenwald documentary about our invasion of
Iraq. Russell is one of 3 directors, but it sure feels like one of
his films -- it's very funny, and offers a unique slant on the war.
18840


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:47am
Subject: Re: Bert I. Gordon question
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Gabe Klinger"
wrote:
Orson Welles and Gordon worked with one another
> (actually, you probably know this already), and Welles insisted
> on wearing a fake beard so no one would recognize him in the
> film. Can't remember the title.
>
> Gabe

NECROMANCY. The credits roll over the page of Webster's where the
word is defined, which Welles reads at the beginning to make sure the
audience is up to speed.
18841


From:
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:51pm
Subject: Re: Re: Bert I. Gordon question
 
Bill Krohn wrote:

>Anyway, that tracking shot is as amazing as it sounds, despite the
>usual sub-par FX.

To paraphrase Teddy Roosevelt in "The Wind and the Lion," don't let bad FX
spoil the beauty of the thing!

I appreciate the run-down of Gordon films, Gabe. I'll have to check some of
them out, as, at the very least, he sounds like a "subject for further study."
I think the Gordon film in which Welles appeared (and was embarrassed that
he did) must be "Necromancy."

Peter
18842


From:
Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:58pm
Subject: Re: 8 1/2 and its influence
 
Mike Grost wrote:

>Places in the Heart (Robert Benton, 1984) the Communion sequence

This is one of my favorite shots in any film; I'd show it to anyone who
doubts Benton's underappreciated gifts as a filmmaker. I believe there may be an
appreciation of the shot by Bill - yet another fan - somewhere in our archives.

Peter
18843


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:00am
Subject: Re: Bert I. Gordon p.s.
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Gabe Klinger"
wrote:
>
> The scene in Earth vs. the Spider that I mentioned in my last post
> is even better than how I described it: a giant, dormant spider is
> found in a small town and the cops keep it in a high school
> gymnasium. One day some kid starts playing music and several
> teens start dancing and rocking out around the spider. It
> suddenly awakens, of course, and the teens are terrified.
>
> At least I think this is Earth vs. the Spider. Someone correct me
if
> they have seen this in another movie.
>
> Gabe

That's it. The electric guitars wake the thing up. Mention should
also be made of VILLAGE OF THE GIANTS, about enlarged teens, and FOOD
OF THE GODS, with the great sarcastic Ralph Meeker line (when asked
why he is greedily pawing at the ground to recover the title
substance, which makes things big): "I'm doing it for the children!"
Greg Ford always maintained that the giant in COLOSSAL MAN changed
size depending on the director's state of arousal when he was
compositing the scene. Gordon was very uncontrolling about stuff like
that - the giant grasshoppers in BEGINNING OF THE END?, which are
crawling on blown-up photographs of skyscrapers, occasionally wander
off onto the sky next to the buildings. But the opening footage of
the hero's flesh being burned off by an A-bomb blast in COLOSSAL MAN
is impressive - maybe having Joe Biroc as cameraman helped. In some
ways the most accomplished Gordon film - accomplished in the sense of
no fuckups - is ATTACK OF THE PUPPET PEOPLE. By the time of THE MAGIC
SWORD he had begun to claim that the bad FX - always credited to him
and his wife Flora - were Brechtian, so that kiddies wouldn't be
scared by them...
18844


From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:07am
Subject: Re: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways"
 
Not being a Sideways fan at all (and longing to see Million Dollar Baby and
The Aviator as fast as I can), I'll skip commenting on it. But BORN INTO
BROTHELS is lame as lame can go. And I wouldn't like to choose between
Zhang's carnival(grot)esque take on wuxia and asthma-taken Che crossing the
river and risking his life.

> Best Foreign Film: "House of Flying Daggers"
> (runner-up "The Motorcycle Diaries")
>
> Best Documentary: "Born into Brothels" (runner-up
> "Fahrenheit 9/11")
18845


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:10am
Subject: Re: 8 1/2 and its influence
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
> Mike Grost wrote:
>
> >Places in the Heart (Robert Benton, 1984) the Communion sequence
>
> This is one of my favorite shots in any film; I'd show it to anyone
who
> doubts Benton's underappreciated gifts as a filmmaker. I believe
there may be an
> appreciation of the shot by Bill - yet another fan - somewhere in
our archives.
>
> Peter

I was blown away by it. The appreciation appeared in a CdC article
about the 3 "farm films" that came out at the same time: Places in
the Heart, The River and Country, with a postscript on Paris, Texas,
which reshuffled the elements in the films of the farm "trilogy." I
love that ending - and the whole film - so much that I am willing to
break my Sacred Oath (re: a certain actor) to resee every few years.
18846


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:11am
Subject: Re: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways"
 
Wel I didn't vote for it.

--- Ruy Gardnier wrote:

> Not being a Sideways fan at all (and longing to see
> Million Dollar Baby and
> The Aviator as fast as I can), I'll skip commenting
> on it. But BORN INTO
> BROTHELS is lame as lame can go. And I wouldn't like
> to choose between
> Zhang's carnival(grot)esque take on wuxia and
> asthma-taken Che crossing the
> river and risking his life.
>
> > Best Foreign Film: "House of Flying Daggers"
> > (runner-up "The Motorcycle Diaries")
> >
> > Best Documentary: "Born into Brothels" (runner-up
> > "Fahrenheit 9/11")
>
>





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
18847


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:15am
Subject: Re: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways"
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> Wel I didn't vote for it.
>
>Haven't seen it. If this turns out to be Payne's year - everyone
thought Schmidt would do it - I hope he does a Scorsese uses his new
clout to strongarm Fox Searchlight into picking up a few of the
Luciano Emmer films screened in the big retrospective at Torino.
Every time I went to an Emmer, there was Alexander Payne, beaming
like a fiend and raving about how fantastic Emmer was - I think he
spent the whole festival just seeing and reseeing those films.
18848


From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:24am
Subject: Re: Re: Jim McBride
 
Brad,
a working copy premiered in October 2004 at the Mostra Internacional de São
Paulo. The McBride segment is "New World". In 2003, Jim McBride was on the
jury for the mostra and was given a DV camera to make a small film on a
particular theme of the city of São Paulo (same thing for others directors,
as Gitai, Becker, Tsai, Medeiros, Noyce, M. Kaurismaki, Yoshida, among
others). As it still lacks post-production, it's doubtful that you could get
ahold of a copy, but you can ask Mr. Cakoff (curator of the Mostra as well
as organizer of the film) at info@m.... You can find more information
on the film here: http://www1.uol.com.br/mostra/p_jornal_08_27_2004_en.htm
Ruy

----- Original Message -----
From: "thebradstevens"
To:
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:07 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Jim McBride

That's something I didn't know about. Jim certainly never mentioned
it. I sent him what I thought was a complete filmography that I'd
established, and asked him if there was anything missing. He did
mention an advert that he'd shot at one point, but certainly didn't
mention this! I'll ask him about it.
Is there anything else you can tell me about this? Was it made
recently. Any idea where I could find a copy?
18849


From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:54am
Subject: Re: Born into Brothels (was: LAFCA, Sideways)
 
It's surprising how Born into Brothels got so much attention. In Festival do
Rio, people left the theater in tears. I felt like strangling the directors
if they were there. It's that kind of feelgood humanitarian documentary that
goes to the needy offering art workshops and creating them new opportunities
in life (which of course will be frustrated but the camera won't film it
because the filmmakers will have already left). In my capsule I wrote that
the film was in fact a horror film with art being the serial killer. And
compared it with GWB invading other countries. Never in my life saw anyone
more self-assured and etnocentrist as the photographer-director that's on
screen all the time (and the film is perhaps her portfolio as a goodhearted
citizen that'll raise thousands of dollars with non-governamental entities).
Ruy

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ehrenstein"
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: [a_film_by] LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways"


>
> Wel I didn't vote for it.
>
> --- Ruy Gardnier wrote:
>
> > Not being a Sideways fan at all (and longing to see
> > Million Dollar Baby and
> > The Aviator as fast as I can), I'll skip commenting
> > on it. But BORN INTO
> > BROTHELS is lame as lame can go. And I wouldn't like
> > to choose between
> > Zhang's carnival(grot)esque take on wuxia and
> > asthma-taken Che crossing the
> > river and risking his life.
> >
> > > Best Foreign Film: "House of Flying Daggers"
> > > (runner-up "The Motorcycle Diaries")
> > >
> > > Best Documentary: "Born into Brothels" (runner-up
> > > "Fahrenheit 9/11")
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
18850


From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:40am
Subject: Re: Aviator
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:

> Since many names are now in play under the indecipherable rubric of
> The Aviator, let me just add that Abel Ferrara is the best
practicing
> American filmmaker, as far as I'm concerned; I turned off Rushmore
> after 20 minutes (but am seeing the new WA tonight, with hope in my
> heart); I like both Paul Andersons, but like the serious one more;
I
> take James L. Brooks seriously, and am looking forward to Spanglish
> (ALBERT Brooks, it goes without saying, is one of H'wd's wonders,
and
> Mother is one of the great films of recent years); I like Scorsese,
> but look to him for something different than do many here (hence my
> preference for Casino over Raging Bull); I like the Coens, although
> they sometimes let me down; and my opinion of Jarmusch, previously
> stated at length and probably too baldly, hasn't changed.

I'd like to read your thoughts on Jarmusch. Where they posted on
a_film_by? I was initially skeptical of him, but I've come to admire
his films. I think I'd agree that Ferrara is the best practicing
American filmmaker. At different times I would have said Scorsese, De
Palma, Lynch, Burton, or Eastwood, but Ferrara has the best batting
average...
>
> One more time: I don't give a damn what a filmmaker thinks of
his/her
> characters, who don't exist. Repeat: who don't exist.
>

I've wondered whether the principle of judging an artist by his
attitude to his characters is unique to the cinema -- whether it
occurs, say, in literary criticism. Astuc expressed the principle in
"What is Mise en scene?": "Mizoguchi knows well that, after all, it is
not very important for his film to turn out well; he is more concerned
with knowing whether the strongest bonds between himself and his
characters are those of tenderness or contempt."

Paul
18851


From: Craig Keller
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:22am
Subject: La Lettre du cinéma 20
 
Does anyone on the list know where I might be able to find issue 20 of
La Lettre du cinéma? The P.O.L. site only lists as far up as 17 from
2001 -- ditto Amazon.fr. Issue 20 (from earlier this year) is what I'm
specifically looking for, as it contains the "A propos de Jean Renoir"
piece by Jacques Rivette.

thanks!
craig.
18852


From: Craig Keller
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:23am
Subject: correction - La Lettre du cinéma *25*
 
Sorry -- that should be issue -25- of La Lettre du cinéma, with the
Rivette/Renoir article.

craig.
18853


From: Damien Bona
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:09am
Subject: Re: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways"
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> Wel I didn't vote for it.
>

David, being in a room with your fellow LAFCA members, did you get a
sense of what this love for "Sideways" is all about? -- because I
just don't get it. Seems like nothing so much as a redux, 49 yearts
later, of reviewers going crazy for Delbert Mann's "Marty." And
Delbert Mann probably had a better visual sense than Payne.
18854


From: Damien Bona
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:15am
Subject: Re: Bert I. Gordon p.s.
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
In some
> ways the most accomplished Gordon film - accomplished in the sense
of
> no fuckups - is ATTACK OF THE PUPPET PEOPLE. By the time of THE
MAGIC
> SWORD he had begun to claim that the bad FX - always credited to
him
> and his wife Flora - were Brechtian, so that kiddies wouldn't be
> scared by them...

My favorite moment in a Bert I. Gordon picture (and if you are of a
certain age, you saw his work endlessly on local TV channels as a
kid) is -- because of its clear-eyed absurdity -- in "Attack of the
Puppet People," when a puppet woman sings a rock 'n' ballad to a
puppet man called (I think) "You're A Doll."
18855


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:44am
Subject: Re: Aviator
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Gallagher"
wrote:
>
> I'd like to read your thoughts on Jarmusch.

They were mostly ad hominem - not worth reading.


> > One more time: I don't give a damn what a filmmaker thinks of
> his/her
> > characters, who don't exist. Repeat: who don't exist.
> >
>
> I've wondered whether the principle of judging an artist by his
> attitude to his characters is unique to the cinema -- whether it
> occurs, say, in literary criticism. Astuc expressed the principle in
> "What is Mise en scene?": "Mizoguchi knows well that, after all, it
is
> not very important for his film to turn out well; he is more
concerned
> with knowing whether the strongest bonds between himself and his
> characters are those of tenderness or contempt."
>
> Paul

That's a very interesting quote! Sentimental moralizing is common in
a all criticism.
18856


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:47am
Subject: Re: Bert I. Gordon p.s.
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
>
> My favorite moment in a Bert I. Gordon picture (and if you are of a
> certain age, you saw his work endlessly on local TV channels as a
> kid) is -- because of its clear-eyed absurdity -- in "Attack of the
> Puppet People," when a puppet woman sings a rock 'n' ballad to a
> puppet man called (I think) "You're A Doll."

There were some authentically creepy moments in that one, like when
the soon-to-be-shrunken characters go the drive-in and see the scene
in AMAZING COLODSSAL MAN where the giant looks into the lens and
says, "I'm not getting bigger - you're getting smaller! YOU'RE
GETTING SMALLER!!"
18857


From: Noel Vera
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:40am
Subject: Re: Film violence and Day of the Dead [was: Now you know ...]
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "peckinpah20012000"
wrote:
> > For the record, not even George Romero has the original DAY OF
> THE DEAD screenplay since he and Chris searched for it over five
> years ago. A second version does exist which does contain more of
> the original plot elements which never made it into DAY.

So all those 'original Day of the Dead' screenplay links I found in
Google--they were of the second version?
18858


From:
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:45am
Subject: Re: Re: Wes Anderson's New Film
 
In a message dated 12/11/04 6:04:05 PM, rashomon82@y... writes:


> Her character *explicitly* rejects the notion that she is an object
>
I suppose I overstated her being passed around in the film. And I do need to
see it again. But still, if she's not an object, where's her subjectivity? She
still exists IN REACTION TO these men rather than in and of herself. Where's
the sweet film of women reconciling in a utopia? How come Jane Curtin and
Laraine Newman aren't enlisted for an Oedipal Moby Dick fantasy?

Kevin John



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
18859


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:02pm
Subject: Re: Re: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways"
 
--- Damien Bona wrote:


>
> David, being in a room with your fellow LAFCA
> members, did you get a
> sense of what this love for "Sideways" is all about?
> -- because I
> just don't get it. Seems like nothing so much as a
> redux, 49 yearts
> later, of reviewers going crazy for Delbert Mann's
> "Marty." And
> Delbert Mann probably had a better visual sense than
> Payne.

I think a bandwagon effect was in operation. LAFCA has
always loved Payne, and "Sideways" has been a
favorite among numerous critics nationwide ever since
it appeared. I was disappoined there wasn't more of a
"share the wealth" spirit at LAFCA in this has been a
very good year for American films. Comparing Payne to
Delbert Mann is, howvever, way out of line IMO. I was
remined far more of "I Vittelloni" and certain films
by Marco Fererri. Paul Giamati told me that Alex
screened several Italian films for the cast before
shooting (a la Rivette) including "The Easy Life" by
Dino Risi
>
>
>
>




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18860


From: Zach Campbell
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:02pm
Subject: Re: Wes Anderson's New Film
 
Kevin:
> But still, if she's not an object, where's her subjectivity? She
> still exists IN REACTION TO these men rather than in and of
> herself.

No, I don't think she does exist in reaction to them. The movie
itself is in fact about their relationship(s), but movies have a
funny way of being about relationships rather than people "in and
of" themselves. She has a life outside of her bizarre relationships
with Max and Herman that the film presents openly but does not dwell
upon--e.g., her dating Luke Wilson's doctor, which comes as a big
surprise to Max and Herman--precisely because it indicates the ways
in which she exists apart from the boys. Keep in mind that the film
presents Ms. Cross multiple times as "doing her own thing," as Max
and/or Herman--voyeuristically and kind of pathetically--watch her
from a distance. Throughout the course of the story, perhaps out of
morbid fascination, maybe a little out of loneliness, she lets
herself enter into the weird world of these boy-men. Then she
decides she wants out once she sees the depths of their immaturity
(which she wasn't privy to at first), and the rest of the film
involves Max and Herman realizing what dicks they've been and trying
to make amends for it.

Is her subjectivity brought up in the film so that the
viewer "identifies" with her? Well, no, not that much. But that's
not the same as saying that the film denies her character a
semblance of subjectivity altogether. (I say "semblance" only
because--as Bill reminds us--these aren't real people, so no
character psychology is real.)

> Where's the sweet film of women reconciling in a utopia? How come
> Jane Curtin and Laraine Newman aren't enlisted for an Oedipal Moby
> Dick fantasy?

You should be pitching it to some producers now! I'd see it.

--Zach
18861


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:30pm
Subject: Ray/Julie (was:: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways")
 
I was surprised that "Ray" didn't get anything. Foxx not even a
runner-up?! I know there have been rather negative feelings
expressed on this Group about the film, but I thought it was great...

Julie Delpy was wonderful in "Before Sunset" and I'm glad she made
at least runner-up for best actress. She is the only French
performer who has so completely mastered the English language (she
also contributed a lot of dialogue), just retaining a very faint
trace of accent to remind us that she is indeed French, like the
character she plays. One slight drawback, to me at least, was that
in the process she has lost a lot of her "Frenchness" (for lack of a
better word). She has picked up so many American mannerisms (speech
patterns, facial expressions, body language) that I kept wondering
whether any French woman would actually speak and behave the way she
does (none of the French women I know, even the ones who speak good
English, would). This got me thinking about the way people
(including myself) change when they shift from one language to
another. Julie speaking French is a different person -- but she
speaks only a very few words in "Before Sunset." As for Ethan H. who
knows no French at all, there is a cute bi-lingual gag in the
closing scene in her apartment when he tells her "merci" and she
thinks he said "messy" (referring to her apt.)

JPC
18862


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:50pm
Subject: Re: Ray/Julie (was:: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways")
 
--- jpcoursodon wrote:

>
> I was surprised that "Ray" didn't get anything. Foxx
> not even a
> runner-up?! I know there have been rather negative
> feelings
> expressed on this Group about the film, but I
> thought it was great...
>

Few in LAFCA even mentioned it.

> Julie Delpy was wonderful in "Before Sunset" and I'm
> glad she made
> at least runner-up for best actress.

But she's the runaway winner for Best Imaginary
Girlfriend.

"Before Sunrise" and "Before Sunset" are Date Movies
Deluxe. Going to europe and meeting Julie Delpy
against the sumptuous backgrounds Paris and Vienna is
the Number One Fantasy of more film critics than I
dare to name.

And that's just the film critics.

The thing is she's barely in Europe anymore at all.
She's here in L.A., and is the actress I find myself
most likely to run into by chance more than twice a
week!

And to think she was discovered by Jean-Luc Godard
when she was all of 14.

__________________________________________________
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18863


From: Damien Bona
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:02pm
Subject: Re: Ray/Julie (was:: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways")
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
>
> Julie Delpy was wonderful in "Before Sunset" and I'm glad she made
> at least runner-up for best actress.


I expect her to win either the New York Film Critics' or National
Society's Best Actress award, if not both -- and I think "Before
Sunset" might very well be a factor with the New York critics
tomorrow. I love Dave Kehr's description of "Before Sunset": "it's
as if an Eric Rohmer script had been directed by Max Ophuls."
18864


From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:30pm
Subject: cinema verite - unobtrusive style on SUNDANCE today and several other days
 
Filmmaker Peter Wintonick researches the origins of cinema verite, the
art of using the camera in an unobtrusive style.

DATE / TIME: These are pacific times (check local times
December 12: 12:05PM
December 13: 2:30AM
December 17: 6:30AM, 2:30PM
December 29: 6:35AM
18865


From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:43pm
Subject: SIDEWAYS and CLOSER
 
I'd be curious to know the age and sex of the LAFCA. I think male
viewers are more favorable to SIDEWAYS... which just extends the ages
of 'lost males' who can't get a woman / can't commit; we see pretty
much the same 'used' role for the female characters in the story. I
suspect male viewers / reviewers of similar age as the male characters
find these characters more agreeable than I do.

A quick take on CLOSER. Now that the women are onto to the men and
their ploys, the men are left to psychologically screwing each other.
(We've already seen women psychologically screwing each in Working
Girl).


> From: "Damien Bona"
> Subject: Re: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways"
>
> David Ehrenstein
>> Wel I didn't vote for it.
>
> David, being in a room with your fellow LAFCA members, did you get a
> sense of what this love for "Sideways" is all about? -- because I
> just don't get it. Seems like nothing so much as a redux, 49 yearts
> later, of reviewers going crazy for Delbert Mann's "Marty." And
> Delbert Mann probably had a better visual sense than Payne.
18866


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:48pm
Subject: Re: SIDEWAYS and CLOSER
 
--- Elizabeth Nolan wrote:

> I'd be curious to know the age and sex of the LAFCA.
> I think male
> viewers are more favorable to SIDEWAYS... which just
> extends the ages
> of 'lost males' who can't get a woman / can't
> commit; we see pretty
> much the same 'used' role for the female characters
> in the story. I
> suspect male viewers / reviewers of similar age as
> the male characters
> find these characters more agreeable than I do.
>

Yes we're a bunch of old farts. But the oldest fart of
all (Schikel) preferred "The Aviator" -- and so did I.
(I'll be 58 in February.)

__________________________________________________
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18867


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:22pm
Subject: Re: Ray/Julie (was:: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways")
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
> wrote:
> >
> > Julie Delpy was wonderful in "Before Sunset" and I'm glad she
made
> > at least runner-up for best actress.
>
>
> I expect her to win either the New York Film Critics' or National
> Society's Best Actress award, if not both -- and I think "Before
> Sunset" might very well be a factor with the New York critics
> tomorrow. I love Dave Kehr's description of "Before
Sunset": "it's
> as if an Eric Rohmer script had been directed by Max Ophuls."

As a long-take fetishist I loved those five-minute-or-longer
sinuous takes through Paris streets. Too bad Ophuls didn't have this
kind of portable equipment to make his beloved complicated tracking
shots!

By the way it's funny (to a Parisian at least) when they walk
down Rue Galande then across to Rue de la Huchette and then suddenly
turn a corner and... find themselves in a totally different location
across the river.
18868


From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:27pm
Subject: Rushmore (Was: Wes Anderson's New Film)
 
> Oh, Dan is totally on to something. But that's part of what the
> movie is about! Max's (and Herman's) maturation is inscribed onto
> the viewer in that the early part of the film involves taking
> pleasure from harsh and petty power games, and the second part of
> the film involves taking pleasure from the acknowledgment of
> immaturity and the subsequent acts of reconciliation, humility, and
> generosity.

Two thoughts pass through my head. First: lots of films give pleasure
from a certain activity, and then express a different attitude in later
scenes. And I almost always feel that this is a way of having cake and
eating it too. There are so many ways to express a dual perspective on an
activity while it's happening, if the filmmaker is so inclined. Once you
give pleasure, it's hard to take it back. (Maybe not impossible, but
hard. You practically have to inflict trauma on the viewer to make him or
her rewrite their memories.)

Second: I don't want to dump on RUSHMORE, which I like in many ways, but I
felt as if the film was light on the maturation stuff and heavy on the
celebration of Max's irrepressible genius. To the end, he is an object of
fascination, for us and the other characters. The last thing I remember
in the film is his triumph with the Vietnam stage production (though this
may be partial memory, slanted because of my perspective). - Dan
18869


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:55pm
Subject: Re: Ray/Julie (was:: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways")
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> >
> > I was surprised that "Ray" didn't get anything. Foxx
> > not even a
> > runner-up?! I know there have been rather negative
> > feelings
> > expressed on this Group about the film, but I
> > thought it was great...
> >
>
> Few in LAFCA even mentioned it.
>

Sarris absolutely raved about it in the NY Observer. Maybe it's a
movie for old men. The audience when i saw it was thoroughly
geriatric (but then it was a weekday matinee).


.
>
> "Before Sunrise" and "Before Sunset" are Date Movies
> Deluxe.

I've never quite understood the American concept of "date movie"
(I'm to old to date anyway). My first movie with a girl was "Miracle
in Milan" and we kissed throughout the film, not paying much
attention to it. She was a leslie Caron look alike.


Going to europe and meeting Julie Delpy
> against the sumptuous backgrounds Paris and Vienna is
> the Number One Fantasy of more film critics than I
> dare to name.
>
> And that's just the film critics.
>

Is this your #1 fantasy, David? I doubt it...
>

The thing is she's barely in Europe anymore at all.
> She's here in L.A., and is the actress I find myself
> most likely to run into by chance more than twice a
> week!
>

That was the point of my original post. She's become thoroughly
americanized (on film, I don't know about in person)and that's
somewhat unsettling.
>

And to think she was discovered by Jean-Luc Godard
> when she was all of 14.
>
And she was 16 when she was raped by her (movie) father in
Tavernier's much maligned "La Passion Beatrice."
__________________________________________________
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> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
18870


From:
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:32pm
Subject: Re: Ray/Julie (was:: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways")
 
In "Nowhere in Africa" (Caroline Link), the family speaks German. But later,
the daughter goes to an English school, and these scenes are in English. The
daughter seems like a completely different personality in a new language.
I'm used to seeing Agnes Varda in French, in "The Gleaners and I" and its
sequel. But she was interviewed for a half an hour on US cable TV in English. She
is fluent in English - and seems almost unrecognizably different talking in a
different language.
Perhaps this is a universal phenomenon.
By the way, Varda used complete English translations for the titles of all
her films during the interview: "Happiness" instead of "Le Bonheur", for example.

Mike Grost
18871


From: Zach Campbell
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:39pm
Subject: Re: Rushmore (Was: Wes Anderson's New Film)
 
Dan:
> Once you give pleasure, it's hard to take it back. (Maybe not
> impossible, but hard.

I don't know that the film attempts to "take back" pleasure or even
cancel it out. It's simply a movement from one kind of pleasure
(which is gleeful, self-centric: immature!) to a different kind of
pleasure, one that acknowledges the destructive capacity of the
earlier pleasure (but *not* denying that it is pleasurable!), and
which bases its own new pleasurability on cohesion and cooperation
with others rather than the exertion of one's own will over
others'. In some ways RUSHMORE is a dramatization of the process by
which socialization restricts egocentrism and rewards a certain
amount of generosity. Of course it's not a wholly textbook example,
simply because Anderson isn't subordinating all elements of the film
to this driving purpose--so you have the little blond kid who's
relatively mature, for instance.

> I felt as if the film was light on the maturation stuff and heavy
> on the celebration of Max's irrepressible genius. To the end, he
> is an object of fascination, for us and the other characters.

Sure, he's an object of fascination. (To me he's a fascinating
character.) He's not an object of admiration though. When he's got
a cigarette hanging from his mouth and he's taking trash bags to the
dumpster, is the film presenting him as anything but a burnout?
Max's talent and his immaturity are not mutually dependent (see
below).

Also, I don't think the film works at all (and I know nobody has
thus far argued it does) if it were primarily a celebration of the
gags. As I alluded to previously, I didn't get a whole lot out of
the film my first time around, and this was largely because I was
expecting nothing but a "hilarious" parade of stunts and screwball
banter--a la the theatrical trailer which some of you might recall.
(Plus I was only 16 myself on that first viewing.)

> The last thing I remember in the film is his triumph with the
> Vietnam stage production (though this may be partial memory,
> slanted because of my perspective).

Well, remember that the play only continues production after Max has
made a whole lot of apologies and reconciliations. (So
Max's "irrepressible genius" is contingent on his maturation.) And
the last shot is during the reception, where all characters
congregate, and Max-the-character finally acts as if he's learned a
little humility. And then on the soundtrack comes the only
listenable song Rod Stewart was ever involved in ... if you ignore
the lyrics (which are an unfortunate detraction and distraction IMO)
it's an absolutely beautiful moment.

--Zach
18872


From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:39pm
Subject: Re: Ray/Julie (was:: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways")
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> In "Nowhere in Africa" (Caroline Link), the family speaks German.
But later,
> the daughter goes to an English school, and these scenes are in
English. The
> daughter seems like a completely different personality in a new
language.
> I'm used to seeing Agnes Varda in French, in "The Gleaners and I"
and its
> sequel. But she was interviewed for a half an hour on US cable TV
in English. She
> is fluent in English - and seems almost unrecognizably different
talking in a
> different language.
> Perhaps this is a universal phenomenon.
> By the way, Varda used complete English translations for the
titles of all
> her films during the interview: "Happiness" instead of "Le
Bonheur", for example.
>

That was my point about Delpy. Varda is another good example. I do
think it is a universal phenomenon. My theory is that the way we
speak, and particularly the language we use, shape our ideas,
thoughts and feelings as much as they "express" them. Speaking in a
language that is not your native tongue you tend to become a
somewhat different person with different ideas, thoughts and
feelings. Each language has its own structures and patterns that
influence attitude, behavior, mental processes...All that was very
striking to me in the Julie Delpy character. And I'm sure that in a
French film she would revert to her French persona.
JPC
18873


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:18pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ray/Julie (was:: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways")
 
--- jpcoursodon wrote:


> >
> > "Before Sunrise" and "Before Sunset" are Date
> Movies
> > Deluxe.
>
> I've never quite understood the American concept
> of "date movie"
> (I'm to old to date anyway). My first movie with a
> girl was "Miracle
> in Milan" and we kissed throughout the film, not
> paying much
> attention to it. She was a leslie Caron look alike.
>
>

Being gay I've never dated. But I did make out rather
furiously in the balcony of the Regency theater during
a screening of "The Chelsea Girls." (Details of which
will be saved until "Savage Grace" comes out.)

> Going to europe and meeting Julie Delpy
> > against the sumptuous backgrounds Paris and Vienna
> is
> > the Number One Fantasy of more film critics than I
> > dare to name.
> >
> > And that's just the film critics.
> >
>
> Is this your #1 fantasy, David? I doubt it...

No. But speaking of my fantasies, a friend just
returned from overseas with a present for me -- a pack
of Alain Delon cigarettes.

Thank goodness I don;t smoke.

> >
>
> The thing is she's barely in Europe anymore at all.
> > She's here in L.A., and is the actress I find
> myself
> > most likely to run into by chance more than twice
> a
> > week!
> >
>
> That was the point of my original post. She's
> become thoroughly
> americanized (on film, I don't know about in
> person)and that's
> somewhat unsettling.
> >

She still seems pretty damned French to me.
>
> And to think she was discovered by Jean-Luc Godard
> > when she was all of 14.
> >
> And she was 16 when she was raped by her (movie)
> father in
> Tavernier's much maligned "La Passion Beatrice."

Yikes.

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18874


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:23pm
Subject: Re: Ray/Julie (was:: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways")
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
>
> By the way it's funny (to a Parisian at least) when they walk
> down Rue Galande then across to Rue de la Huchette and then
suddenly
> turn a corner and... find themselves in a totally different
location
> across the river.

It was playing when I was in Paris. Wish I'd seized the opportunity
to see it there w. a local audience.
18875


From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:30pm
Subject: Pardon my crude materialism, but...
 
Disney's "The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou" got off to a strong
start in two theaters over the weekend, grossing $114,000 in its
first frame, an average of $57,000 per screen.
18876


From: Richard Modiano
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:05pm
Subject: Re: Ray/Julie (was:: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways")
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:

"My theory is that the way we speak, and particularly the language
we use, shape our ideas, thoughts and feelings as much as
they "express" them. Speaking in a language that is not your native
tongue you tend to become a somewhat different person with different
ideas, thoughts and feelings. Each language has its own structures
and patterns that influence attitude, behavior, mental
processes...All that was very striking to me in the Julie Delpy
character. And I'm sure that in a French film she would revert to her
French persona."

I can add my own experience speaking Japanese as a bit of anecdotal
evidence to your theory. If you're bilingual you take on at the very
least the body language of the speakers you're with, and even when
translating for someone you switch physical gestures according to the
language you're speaking.

Concerning Julie Delpy, she's a cinephile too. I've seen her at a
few LACMA screenings and heard her talk about HISTORY IS MADE AT
NIGHT and MINNIE AND MOSCOWITZ as great romantic films in an
interview for a local radio station.

Richard
18877


From: Richard Modiano
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:09pm
Subject: Privacy Alert
 
Yahoo is now using something called "Web Beacons" to track Yahoo
Group users around the net and see what you're doing and where you
are going - similar to cookies. Yahoo is recording every website and
every group you visit. Take a look at their updated privacy
statement:

http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy

About half-way down the page, in the section on cookies, you will
see a link that says web beacons. Click on the phrase web beacons.
That will bring you to a paragraph entitled "Outside the Yahoo
Network."

In this section you'll see a little "click here to opt out" link
that will let you "opt-out" of their new method of snooping.

Once you have clicked that link, you are exempted. Notice
the "Success" message on the top of the next page. Be careful
because on that page there is a "Cancel Opt-out" button that, if
clicked, will *undo** the opt-out.
18878


From: Craig Keller
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:23pm
Subject: Re: Ray/Julie (was:: LAFCA Landslide for "Sideways")
 
> Julie Delpy was wonderful in "Before Sunset" and I'm glad she made
> at least runner-up for best actress. She is the only French
> performer who has so completely mastered the English language (she
> also contributed a lot of dialogue), just retaining a very faint
> trace of accent to remind us that she is indeed French, like the
> character she plays.

What about Binoche? Perhaps her accent is more present though than
Delpy's. The quality of Binoche's voice when she's speaking English is
really extraordinary and wonderful; something comes out in English with
her that doesn't really emerge when she's speaking French. It's the
best thing about 'A Couch in New York,' which I don't entirely dislike.

What about you, J-P? Is your French accent all but rubbed-out by this
point, à la Louis Malle?

craig.
18879


From: Damien Bona
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:31pm
Subject: Re: Not with a Bang... (was: : Film violence)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> My mother always guessed these women had hard lives. Their dancing
careers
> were probably short, and they probably had little money when they
would suddenly
> find themselves unemployed at age 30 or whatever.

My late collaborator Mason Wiley was that rare baby boomer -- a guy
who hated the Three Stooges. The reason wasn't the expected "they're
stupid" or "they're too violent." Rather Mason said he got depressed
by their shorts because of the leading ladies. He always mused on
how they came to Hollywood hoping to become great stars, only to end
up kicked in the derriere with pies in their faces and that made him
sad. Me, I like to think that Christine McIntyre, to mention one
actress co-starred with the stooges frequently, enjoyed the work and
was pleased when the films found new, and seemingly endless, life on
television.
18880


From: Chris Fujiwara
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:49pm
Subject: Boston Society of Film Critics awards
 
Here's what the Boston Society of Film Critics just voted this
afternoon. In no category did my top choice win!

Best Film: Sideways. Runner-up: Before Sunset
Best Foreign Language Film: House of Flying Daggers. Runner-up: Very
Long Engagement
Best Director: Zhang Yimou (House of Flying Daggers). Runner-up:
Alexander Payne
Best Documentary: Control Room. Runner-up: Touching the Void
Best Actor: Jamie Foxx (Ray). Runner-up: Paul Giamatti
Best Actress: Hilary Swank. Runner-up: Annette Bening/Kim Basinger
(tie)
Best Supp. Actor: Thos. Haden Church. Runner-up: Clive Owen
Best Supp. Actress: Laura Dern and Sharon Warren (tie). Runner-up:
Cate Blanchett (Aviator)
Best Screenplay: Sideways. Runner-up: Eternal Sunshine
Best New Filmmaker: Jonathan Caouette. Runners-up: the directors of
The Woodsman and Maria Full of Grace (tie)
Best Cinematography: House of Flying Daggers. Runner-up: Very Long
Engagement
Best Ensemble Cast: Sideways. Runner-up: The Life Aquatic
18881


From:
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:19pm
Subject: Re: Boston Society of Film Critics awards
 
Neither the Boston nor LA critics gave any awards to "Torque" (Joseph Kahn).
Perhaps it was too much of a dark motorcycle. Or to "Primer" (Shane Carruth).
Genre films still seem out of the running.
"Tanner on Tanner" (Robert Altman) seems shut out too.
So are such foreign language films released here as Rosenstrasse, The Return,
Blind Shaft, The Clay Bird, Osama, Facing Windows, Fuse, Bon Voyage.
And comedies such as "A Touch of Pink" and "I (Heart) Huckabees".

Mike Grost
18882


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:34pm
Subject: Re: Re: Boston Society of Film Critics awards
 
"Primer," "Osama," and "I Heart Huckabees" all figured
in the L.A. vote.

--- MG4273@a... wrote:

> Neither the Boston nor LA critics gave any awards to
> "Torque" (Joseph Kahn).
> Perhaps it was too much of a dark motorcycle. Or to
> "Primer" (Shane Carruth).
> Genre films still seem out of the running.
> "Tanner on Tanner" (Robert Altman) seems shut out
> too.
> So are such foreign language films released here as
> Rosenstrasse, The Return,
> Blind Shaft, The Clay Bird, Osama, Facing Windows,
> Fuse, Bon Voyage.
> And comedies such as "A Touch of Pink" and "I
> (Heart) Huckabees".
>
> Mike Grost
>




__________________________________
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Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good.
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18883


From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 0:29am
Subject: Re: Privacy Alert
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Modiano"
wrote:
>
> In this section you'll see a little "click here to opt out" link
> that will let you "opt-out" of their new method of snooping.

Thanks, Richard. They can include me out!
18884


From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 0:31am
Subject: Re: Boston Society of Film Critics awards
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Fujiwara"
wrote:
>
> Here's what the Boston Society of Film Critics just voted this
> afternoon. In no category did my top choice win!
>
> Best Film: Sideways. Runner-up: Before Sunset
> Best Foreign Language Film: House of Flying Daggers. Runner-up:
Very
> Long Engagement
> Best Director: Zhang Yimou (House of Flying Daggers). Runner-up:
> Alexander Payne
> Best Documentary: Control Room. Runner-up: Touching the Void
> Best Actor: Jamie Foxx (Ray). Runner-up: Paul Giamatti
> Best Actress: Hilary Swank. Runner-up: Annette Bening/Kim Basinger
> (tie)
> Best Supp. Actor: Thos. Haden Church. Runner-up: Clive Owen
> Best Supp. Actress: Laura Dern and Sharon Warren (tie). Runner-up:
> Cate Blanchett (Aviator)
> Best Screenplay: Sideways. Runner-up: Eternal Sunshine
> Best New Filmmaker: Jonathan Caouette. Runners-up: the directors of
> The Woodsman and Maria Full of Grace (tie)
> Best Cinematography: House of Flying Daggers. Runner-up: Very Long
> Engagement
> Best Ensemble Cast: Sideways. Runner-up: The Life Aquatic

Christ!
18885


From: K. A. Westphal
Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:03am
Subject: Re: Boston Society of Film Critics awards
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Fujiwara"
wrote:
>
> Here's what the Boston Society of Film Critics just voted this
> afternoon. In no category did my top choice win!
>
> Best Film: Sideways. Runner-up: Before Sunset
> Best Foreign Language Film: House of Flying Daggers. Runner-up: Very
> Long Engagement
> Best Director: Zhang Yimou (House of Flying Daggers). Runner-up:
> Alexander Payne

Did anyone on this group actually like HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS? The
setpieces are so uninvolving. The "thrill" lies in watching a CGI
arrow fly through grassland and arrive exactly at its destination; or,
alternatively, watching as a decent five-minute suspense sequence
finds resolution in a torrent of daggers falling from the sky. One
great, big deus ex [Sony Pictures Classics] Machina.

--Kyle Westphal
18886


From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:39am
Subject: The Cutting Edge: The Magic of Movie Editing many showings this month
 
Anyone with interest in film ought to find this THE CUTTING EDGE
entertaining, interesting and informative.


SHOW TITLE:
The Cutting Edge: The Magic of Movie Editing

CATEGORY:
Special

SYNOPSIS:
Some of film's greatest talents on the art of film editing.

CHANNEL:
500 [ENCORE]

DATE / TIME:
December 12: 5:00PM, 11:00PM
December 15: 4:30AM, 3:15PM
December 20: 7:20AM, 5:00PM
December 23: 9:40AM
December 31: 3:15PM

CHANNEL:
501 [ENCOREP]

DATE / TIME:
December 12: 8:00PM
December 13: 2:00AM
December 15: 7:30AM, 6:15PM
December 20: 10:20AM, 8:00PM
December 23: 12:40PM
December 31: 6:15PM

LENGTH:
105 Minutes

NOTES:
English
18887


From: samfilms2003
Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:50am
Subject: Re: Boston Society of Film Critics awards
 
> Did anyone on this group actually like HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS?

I did, I like to see Zhang Ziyi move through space. I prefered it to the overblown Hero
(the Last Emperor of wu xia piam) except for the fight between Maggie Cheung * and
ZZ. (As I said I lke to see Zhang Ziyi move through space).

This is what I do instead of watch Star Wars DVD's, ok ?

It's no "Swordsman 2" or "The East Is Red" by a long shot.

* like Charlton Heston, an axiom ;-)

-Sam
18888


From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:25am
Subject: HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS
 
I saw HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS a few weeks back at AFI in Palm Springs.
The color is remarkable, there is something of a romance story, the action
almost non-stop. The special effects are unique given the Asian environment
of the time offers bamboo shoots, etc; however, they tend to hang around just
a few moments too long as they become a bit too noticeable. I'll see the
movie again.
HERO had a lot of action often based on two characters 'fighting' each other.
HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS incorporates not only daggers flying across the
screen (with at least one unexpected outcome in the final fight scenes) but
also more of the environment in the scene (those bamboo shoots again),
the scene seems more full.


--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "samfilms2003" wrote:

> > Did anyone on this group actually like HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS?
> I did, I like to see Zhang Ziyi move through space. I prefered it to the overblown Hero
> (the Last Emperor of wu xia piam) except for the fight between Maggie Cheung * and
> ZZ. (As I said I lke to see Zhang Ziyi move through space).
> This is what I do instead of watch Star Wars DVD's, ok ?
> It's no "Swordsman 2" or "The East Is Red" by a long shot.
> * like Charlton Heston, an axiom ;-)
> -Sam
18889


From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:38am
Subject: Re: Boston Society of Film Critics awards
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> Neither the Boston nor LA critics gave any awards to "Torque"
(Joseph Kahn).

I particularly like Joseph Kahn's music videos, in particular, Britney
Spears's "Toxic" and Moby's "Southside." He has a good talent for
color composition. "Torque" has striking color. The impossible stunts
and heavy reliance on computer graphics offended a lot of the
audience, as the IMDb comments show, and I think using real bikes and
real stunts or alternatively going completely over the top, as in
"Charlie's Angels," would have been more effective. Also, some of the
characters in the background -- especially, Jaime Pressly and Adam
Scott -- were more interesting than the leads.

Paul
18890


From:
Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:21am
Subject: Re: Boston Society of Film Critics awards
 
A few weeks ago, was sitting next to a family at lunch in a restaurant. They
decided that "The Polar Express" would be a good movie to see, because as the
Dad explained, "it was all made inside a computer".
TCM recently showed a 10 minute "making of" film for "Grand Prix" (John
Frankenheimer, 1966). The short explained that all the racecar action was filmed by
putting a camera inside a racecar, and using it to film the other cars in the
race.
"There are no special effects in the film," the narrator breathlessly
intoned. "Everything you see is real!"
How times change...

I loved the brilliant color of "Torque", too. This film really stimulated my
imagination.
The motorcycle and train sequence recalled the horse and train imagery of
"Colorado Territory" (Raoul Walsh).

Mike Grost

In a message dated 04-12-13 01:46:12 EST, Paul Gallagher writes:

<< I particularly like Joseph Kahn's music videos, in particular, Britney
Spears's "Toxic" and Moby's "Southside." He has a good talent for
color composition. "Torque" has striking color. The impossible stunts
and heavy reliance on computer graphics offended a lot of the
audience, as the IMDb comments show, and I think using real bikes and
real stunts or alternatively going completely over the top, as in
"Charlie's Angels," would have been more effective. Also, some of the
characters in the background -- especially, Jaime Pressly and Adam
Scott -- were more interesting than the leads.
>>
18891


From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:45pm
Subject: reading: Agamben, Burdeau on Minnelli, Bergala
 
Giorgio Agamben (OT) is an italian philosopher/political thinker. Just read by him an article called "L'état d'exception", published 12 september 2002 on the french daily Le Monde. It's available in french here (http://www.eliseconsortium.org/article.php3?id_article=46) and is very important vis-a-vis the international political relations of the Bush government and the war statute of the Afghanistan and Iraq attacks. Agamben published a book by the same name in 2003. It has just been translated to portuguese and released in Brazil. Will sure be on my christmas wishlist. It's a must-read.

On the new Cahiers du Cinéma (#596, Isild le Besco on cover for the Benoît Jacquot film "A tout de suite"), Emmanuel Burdeau writes a G.R.E.A.T. article on Minnelli, focusing on his three 1958 films (FYI Gigi, The Reluctant Debutante, Some Came Running) and using this year to rethink Minnelli's whole aesthetics as much as his career, and also interpreting his work in relation to the end of american cinema's classical era.

And I was to say it before, bur Alain Bergala's letters on every Cahiers issue this year is my take on the best body of work on cinema writing this year, by far. If there was an a_film_by award for criticism, my vote would be certainly for him. In this new issue, he adresses his letter to Serge Daney, talks about Daney's stature after he's dead, talks about the changes in cinema after D's departure (mainly digital cinema) and makes his own reflexions on what are the best new films, filmmakers, cinema countries, etc. Should take one to tears.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
18892


From: Robert Keser
Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:56pm
Subject: Re: Not with a Bang... (was: : Film violence)
 
Mike: "My mother always guessed these women had hard lives. Their
dancing careers were probably short, and they probably had little
money when they would suddenly find themselves unemployed at age 30
or whatever."

Damien: "My late collaborator Mason Wiley ...always mused on
how they came to Hollywood hoping to become great stars, only to end
up kicked in the derriere with pies in their faces and that made him
sad. Me, I like to think that Christine McIntyre, to mention one
actress co-starred with the stooges frequently, enjoyed the work and
was pleased when the films found new, and seemingly endless, life on
television."

In that Kobal interview with Busby Berkeley's veterans, the
showgirls say that in the midst of the Great Depression they
couldn't even find jobs as salesgirls, so they were delighted to get
the work (and BB didn't require any dancing expertise because they
basically didn't dance). The interviewees say that some of their
colleagues went on to marry photographers and other craftspeople,
while others stepped up to leading lady parts opposite cowboys in B-
western serials. (They don't mention it, but surely some must been
lured into a downward slope as party girls).

They also said that BB protected them by keeping them on salary as
long as he could, although they uniformly complain that they didn't
get enough bathroom breaks (giving new resonance to "Shuffle Off to
Buffalo"?)

--Robert Keser
18893


From:
Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:15pm
Subject: RUSHMORE (WAS: Wes Anderson's New Film)
 
In a message dated 12/12/04 8:35:17 AM, rashomon82@y... writes:


> She has a life outside of her bizarre relationships with Max and Herman
> that the film presents openly but does not dwell upon--e.g., her dating Luke
> Wilson's doctor, which comes as a big surprise to Max and Herman--precisely
> because it indicates the ways in which she exists apart from the boys. Keep in
> mind that the film presents Ms. Cross multiple times as "doing her own thing,"
> as Max
> and/or Herman--voyeuristically and kind of pathetically--watch her from a
> distance.
>
I think you're merely underlining Anderson's inability to imagine a world for
her. Trotting out the fact that she is dating a man to prove she has a life
outside Max and Herman offers an extremely limited set of options for her. She
is STILL defined in relation to a man if not firmly enconsced in the sexual.
And voyeurism? Sheesh! Come on! That's one of the foundations of Laura Mulvey's
"Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema," itself THE foundational text of
feminist film theory. Watching women from a distance triggers the scopohilic drive
at the heart of cinema if not Western epistemology (although Lee Edelman makes
an excellent and hilarious case for replacing vision with the anus as the
main thrust here in his essay "REAR WINDOW's Glasshole"). It's how men keep women
in control. And unless RUSHMORE is some post-Hitchcockian critique of the
perversities of vision (which I seriously doubt it is), it's how Williams'
character remains little more than a relational cipher throughout the film. Anderson
never asks: what does SHE see? or how does SHE look? And, again given the
Western association of vision with knowledge and subjectivity, WHO is she?

But look, I promise to watch RUSHMORE again ASAP if you promise to read (or
re-read) Mulvey's "Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema" (and to listen to
EVERY PICTURE TELLS A STORY before ripping on the great Rod Stewart).

Kevin John




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
18894


From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:42pm
Subject: Re: Not with a Bang... (was: : Film violence)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Keser" wrote:


>
> They also said that BB protected them by keeping them on salary as
> long as he could.

My first apt. in H'wd per se was in a building built by DeMille for actresses
under contract to him at Paramount. Lot'sof jokes about CB coming over to
"check the drapes."
18895


From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:50pm
Subject: Re: RUSHMORE (WAS: Wes Anderson's New Film)
 
---- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, LiLiPUT1@a... wrote:

Williams'
> character remains little more than
a relational cipher throughout the film. Anderson
> never asks: what
does SHE s
ee? or how does SHE look? And, again given the
> Western association of vi
sion with knowledge and subjectivity, WHO is she?


I didn't know how true habelove's statement to me that girls in particular are
obsessed by RUSHMORE until I met a girl with a Max Fischer tattoo last night
-- it's her ONLY tattoo. (She saw a preview of LIFE AQUATIC where the
audience was going wild. She was very let down by TENENBAUMS.) A very
intelligent , witty girl, she said many friends had told her how good
HUCKABEE'S is, but she doesn't want to see another movie with Jason
Schwartzman because "I don't want to lose Max."
18896


From: Damien Bona
Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 0:10am
Subject: Re: Not with a Bang... (was: : Film violence)
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Keser" wrote:

> They also said that BB protected them by keeping them on salary as
> long as he could, although they uniformly complain that they didn't
> get enough bathroom breaks (giving new resonance to "Shuffle Off to
> Buffalo"?)
>

Of course, that wouldn't have been so big a problem when Berkeley was
choreographing Esther Williams vehicles.
18897


From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:16am
Subject: Fellini-O-Rama
 
The Istituto Italiano di Cultura here in Los Angeles
is having a big Fellini celebration.

The Highlights:

December 21 6:30PM Photo exhibit of never-before-seen
stuff on the set of "La Dolce Vita"

January 11 6 PM "La Dolce Vita" -- Marcello
Mastroianni, Anita Ekberg, Anouk Aimee, Alain Cuny,
Yvonne Furneaux, Annibale Nicchi, Nadia Grey, Laura
Betti, Lex Barker and Nico. Simply one of the reasons
the cinema was invented.

January 21 6:30PM. Screening of "The Last Sequence" a
documentary by Mario Sesti on the train sequence that
was the original ending of "8 1/2"

7:50 PM : "Fellini TV" a compendium of the short
parodies he shot for "Ginger and Fred" but did not
use.

8:30 PM "Fellini in New York" a new documentary by
Paul Mazursky about a film Fellini once planned to
make.

This trio is repeated on January 18.

1023 Hilgard Ave, Westwood Village (310) 443-3250




__________________________________
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18898


From: Zach Campbell
Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:02am
Subject: Re: RUSHMORE (WAS: Wes Anderson's New Film)
 
Warning: this is long and if discussions of Laura Mulvey and/or "the
gaze" make your eyes glaze over you may want to skip this post.

Kevin:
> She is STILL defined in relation to a man if not firmly enconsced
> in the sexual.

The character of Ms. Cross is not defined by her dating the Luke
Wilson character. In this case *he* is defined by being *her*
boyfriend.

> And voyeurism? Sheesh! Come on! That's one of the foundations of
> Laura Mulvey's "Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema," itself THE
> foundational text of feminist film theory. Watching women from a
> distance triggers the scopohilic drive at the heart of cinema if
> not Western epistemology (although Lee Edelman makes an excellent
> and hilarious case for replacing vision with the anus as the
> main thrust here in his essay "REAR WINDOW's Glasshole").

Oh I've read Mulvey's essay, several times, and am well acquainted
with its importance in the history of feminist film theory. (And
others--Berger, Straayer, etc. I'm not a babe in the woods.)

But I'm game and I'll pull out "Visual Pleasure" again. OK. For
one thing, Mulvey is situating her critique of scopophilia and
fetishism as one between *viewer and screen* more than as one
between *character/subject and character/object*. When she
discusses the latter, its with the understanding that (in classical
cinematic form) it works in conjunction with the former.

You can use Mulvey's formulation to critique Max and Herman's
voyeurism of Ms. Cross. The only problem with criticizing RUSHMORE
for this reason is that the film itself *agrees* with this critique--
it presents it in the first place. Ms. Cross is not once held up
for the *viewer* to take pleasure in; she connotes no to-be-looked-
at-ness. The viewer is instead watching Max and Herman watch Ms.
Cross. This is a vital difference and one that must be acknowledged.

> And unless RUSHMORE is some post-Hitchcockian critique of the
> perversities of vision (which I seriously doubt it is)

Well I'll do my best to continue but until you choose to explain I
can't offer you an argument that answers specifically to the serious
doubts you might have.

I'd say RUSHMORE is in fact very much a post-Mulvey film and one of
its subtexts is *about* (not gleefully complicit in) the
subordination of women in and through sight. How so? Because, as
I've mentioned before several times, the film's storyline is the
eventual rejection of a particular set of behavior and values on the
part of Max and Herman. And the bits of voyeurism are a somewhat
creepy element that enters in RUSHMORE's darkest section, when both
Max and Herman are presented as petty, even unlikable people. We
aren't meant to see the voyeurism as a good thing; quite the
opposite.

That is the point I was trying to make was that the film is
foregrounding Max and Herman's voyeurism as a sign of immaturity, a
grasp at control, a control which Herman temporarily reaches--or
seems to--during his brief fling with Ms. Cross. But Ms. Cross,
exercising agency, decides 'these two men are no good for me.' She
leaves. They both end up apologizing literally and figuratively as,
by the film's end, they've cut their wholesale participation in the
phallocentric-scopophiliac paradigm. Ms. Cross, by the way, is the
embodiment of one of the "important issues for the female
unconscious which are scarcely relevant to phallocentric theory"
that Mulvey writes about, that is, she is "the sexually mature woman
as non-mother." She's not punished for her sexuality in the film,
either. Ever.

(On the other hand, the film disrupts any complicity the
mother/whore complex when Ms. Cross unleashes frank tirade against
Max, who feels betrayed after he found out she slept with Herman.)

> Anderson never asks: what does SHE see? or how does SHE look? And,
> again given the Western association of vision with knowledge and
> subjectivity, WHO is she?

Sure. I could draw up a list of films you or anyone else likes and
come up with comparable questions about what a film doesn't
present. RUSHMORE simply isn't a film about a woman. It is a film
about two men "growing up" and stifling their immaturity insofar as
it is harmful to others and their own relationships. If that's why
the film is disagreeable, well, I can't argue.

> (and to listen to EVERY PICTURE TELLS A STORY before ripping on
> the great Rod Stewart).

I'll give it a shot at some point, but I really dislike Rod
Stewart. It was a cheap shot and an unsupported one in my last
post, I know. (But I assure you it's not coming from an anti-pop
bias.) It's hard for me to still "look to find a reason to believe"
in him.

--Zach
18899


From: Paul Gallagher
Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:13am
Subject: Re: Boston Society of Film Critics awards
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> A few weeks ago, was sitting next to a family at lunch in a
restaurant. They
> decided that "The Polar Express" would be a good movie to see,
because as the
> Dad explained, "it was all made inside a computer".
> TCM recently showed a 10 minute "making of" film for "Grand Prix"
(John
> Frankenheimer, 1966). The short explained that all the racecar
action was filmed by
> putting a camera inside a racecar, and using it to film the other
cars in the
> race.
> "There are no special effects in the film," the narrator
breathlessly
> intoned. "Everything you see is real!"
> How times change...
>
> I loved the brilliant color of "Torque", too. This film really
stimulated my
> imagination.
> The motorcycle and train sequence recalled the horse and train
imagery of
> "Colorado Territory" (Raoul Walsh).
>
The inspiration for Torque's scene was probably Stanley Tong's
Police Story 3: Supercop with Jackie Chan, which has a spectacular
chase on top of a train, actually filmed on a moving train. A
motorcycle really jumped a train for the film. Many fans prize
authentic fights and stunts, and Jackie Chan prides himself on doing
his own stunts. I'm not sure whether his authenticity is central to
his personal appeal and his films' appeal, but Chan does think so.

Roger Ebert said on a talk show that kids nowadays go the
movies to see special effects. That's an overstatement, but most of
the biggest grossing films are dependent on special effects, usually
to create fantastic images, but sometimes to depict a plausible
reality (for example, Titanic). The reality of what's in front of the
camera is one issue, physical plausibility is another. There were many
complaints about the first Spider-man movie that Spider-man's swinging
on webs was unconvincing, since the CGI didn't take into account the
effects of Spider-man's weight. In other words, it didn't take into
account the audiences' intuitions about physics.

Paul
18900


From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:14am
Subject: Re: Fellini-O-Rama
 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> The Istituto Italiano di Cultura here in Los Angeles
> is having a big Fellini celebration.
>
> The Highlights:
>
> December 21 6:30PM Photo exhibit of never-before-seen
> stuff on the set of "La Dolce Vita"
>
> January 11 6 PM "La Dolce Vita" -- Marcello
> Mastroianni, Anita Ekberg, Anouk Aimee, Alain Cuny,
> Yvonne Furneaux, Annibale Nicchi, Nadia Grey, Laura
> Betti, Lex Barker and Nico. Simply one of the reasons
> the cinema was invented.
>
> January 21 6:30PM. Screening of "The Last Sequence" a
> documentary by Mario Sesti on the train sequence that
> was the original ending of "8 1/2"
>
> 7:50 PM : "Fellini TV" a compendium of the short
> parodies he shot for "Ginger and Fred" but did not
> use.
>
> 8:30 PM "Fellini in New York" a new documentary by
> Paul Mazursky about a film Fellini once planned to
> make.

Wo! One more reason I won't be spending Crissmuss w. the family this
year!

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