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Posts From the Internet Film Discussion Group, a_film_by
This group is dedicated to discussing film as art
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23801
From: Fred Camper
Date: Mon Mar 7, 2005 11:57pm
Subject: Re: Re: "Monkey on My Back"
Richard Modiano wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
>
> "I wonder if I could solicit any words of recommendation for Andre de
> Toth's 'Monkey on My Back'?"
>
> It's worth seeing but it's not in the same league as DAY OF THE
> OUTLAW or PLAY DIRTY or CRIME WAVE and THE INDIAN FIGHTER
>
Actually, I've only seen it on TV. I thought it was great. I agree with
Richard on the first two films but not necessarily on the second two. I
remember it has having a characteristically de Tothian sense of surface.
Peter, if you get the DVD, let me know; if it's expensive, we can split it.
A random "Monkey on My Back" memory: many years ago the Film Center here
got a grant to do a series of films about postwar Germany. I was asked
for suggestions and suggested "Monkey on My Back," among others. They
announced a 35mm print and I showed up with great anticipation. It
began, and it was in color, and there was a helicopter scene, something
about sending someone undercover to deal with the Mafia, nothing to do
with Germany. It was a made for TV movie of the same title. As I left,
one other guy was leaving. I've always regretted not starting a
conversation with him. Maybe he'll join our group someday.
Fred Camper
23802
From: Andy Rector
Date: Mon Mar 7, 2005 11:55pm
Subject: Re: "Monkey on My Back"
There isn't much to recommend about it, seems little more than
a "problem" film of the time. All the same I hope someone CAN speak
up for it.
-andy
23803
From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 0:17am
Subject: Re: Breer's films in Anthology: See or Die
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Yoel Meranda" wrote:
>
> Anthology Film Archives is showing thirteen Robert Breer films on
> Monday at 7:30pm and I wish I had a way to force all the a_film_by
> people who live in the New York area to attend this screening.
>
>
> I will certainly be there... if I was the dictator of this country,
> you would either see these films or be killed, or tortured, or
> something like that.
Now don't shoot me, but according to their website, this was last night, Sunday! Yes, The Voice listing says Monday; that was my source too.
23804
From:
Date: Mon Mar 7, 2005 7:55pm
Subject: Re: "Monkey on My Back"
Have not seen this yet - it was broadcast a Turner a while back, and taped
it.
But had to chime in with a defense of "Crime Wave". This is a visually
astonishing film! It is a whole "LA Plays Itself" all by its lonesome, with some of
the best location photography of that metropolis. The slow 360 degree pan
around Sterling Hayden's office should please all fans of Toth's panning
technique. And a traveling shot outside a building with a huge outdoor staircase is one
of the most perfect shots in Toth.
More on my Toth web site article at:
http://members.aol.com/MG4273/detoth.htm
Mike Grost
PS as Eddie Money once sang:
Better clean up your act -
get that monkey off your back!
Good advice.
23805
From:
Date: Mon Mar 7, 2005 8:00pm
Subject: The Crimson Kimono (Samuel Fuller)
The Crimson Kimono
This excellent film shows several of Samuel Fuller's strong points as a
filmmaker:
· Complex, inventive plotting.
· Rich characterization.
· Educational looks at little known aspects of society and modern life.
· Attacks on racism; and pro-Civil Rights commentary
· Off-trail situations and characters.
· A loopy sense of humor.
· Complex camera movements
· A strong sense of composition
These are recurrent elements in Fuller's best films.
It is also typical of Fuller's best work, in that he wrote the screenplay
himself, and that that the film was self-initiated project. Such films tend to be
more creative than the commissioned projects Fuller did for Fox, for example,
which often have screenplays written by others.
Visual Style
Much of The Crimson Kimono involves three distinct kinds of shots: frontal
spectacle shots, camera movement, and dialogue shots.
All three types of shots are often constructed frontally. This same frontal
approach was sometimes used by Edward L. Cahn.
1) Spectacle shots include the targeting of the heroine at the sorority house
near the start; and the shots of the paraders at the very end, after the
killer has been captured. These are shots of purely visual interest, often of
groups of people or objects without motion. They tend to be prettily composed.
When Fuller wants to show a spectacle, he often shoots it from the front, with
the spectacle parallel to the plane of the frame.
2) The camera movements are related in technique to the spectacle shots,
although they are also far more complex. Camera movements often begin or end with
such a frontal spectacle shot. Or have such a shot in the middle.
Camera movement tends to be complex. The shots are held for a fairly long
time. They often involve the movements of characters: entering a room, crossing a
street, chasing a crook. They are ingeniously put together. In fact, most of
them can be considered as art objects, separate, jewel like shots designed to
please with their imagination. Camera movement is not a continuous commentary
on action throughout, as it is, say, in Max Ophuls' final films, or in Otto
Preminger's Fallen Angel.
Some camera movements tend to start out frontally, then move straight
backward, towards the viewer. This preserves the frontality of the shot. Examples:
the mid section of the early "cross the street" shot. After the initial pan, the
camera is parallel to both the street and the big building. Then the camera
moves backward, keeping itself still parallel to the building and the street.
A shot at the police station follows one officer deeper and deeper into a
room, where the heroine is studying mug shots. The shot keeps revealing more and
more of the grid of pictures and posters on the wall behind. The many
different views of this wall, all with more and more of its beautiful rectilinear grid
in view, in one of the most beautiful in the film. It is like a Mondrian in
motion.
The most amazing camera movement shot in the film is the doll show. The
camera keeps moving backward, showing more and more of the doll show, as the actors
move around in intricate patterns. This is a triumph of visual complexity.
This is like the shot at the police station with the wall grid, but even more
complex.
Fuller does sometimes use high level angles in his spectacle shots or camera
movements. This especially true in the shot of the street leading to the
temple, and in the doll show. These have the effect of suggesting a map of the
street, and a floor plan diagram of the doll show. Even here, this high level
angle creates a harmonious sort of visual beauty, combined with a clear, logical
overview of the area. There is no attempt to make a baroque, or disorienting
view, as in so much extreme-angle photography in noir.
Other camera movements are at eye level. Fuller is very happy to shoot them
this way. The movement of the camera is key here, not some extreme angle.
When Corbett and Fuller encounter a staircase, Fuller does not shoot up it at
baroque angles, as nearly all noir directors would do. Instead, his camera
gracefully follows Corbett up the stairs, in a beautiful and exciting rising
camera movement. Once again, the camera movement is a gorgeous and imaginative
spectacle. It is not a trigger for noir tilted-angled, architecturally-centered
compositions.
None of the camera movements in The Crimson Kimono are as long or elaborate
as the ten minute take in Forty Guns. But they share a similar aesthetic,
emphasizing spectacle, ingenuity of staging, and a graceful visual moving camera
visual style. These are distinct set pieces, viewed in some ways by Fuller as
independent art objects within the over all matrix of the film.
3) Dialogue shots tend to be frontal as well. They tend to be very plain,
visually. Fuller will arrange his actors in a plane, set the camera up directly
in front of them, and shoot their dialogue. He usually does not try to create
some brilliant composition. Or make any special emphasis on architecture.
Characters in Fritz Lang are often deeply embedded in a composition deriving from
the architecture. Much of film noir has followed this Lang tradition: Anthony
Mann, Robert Siodmak, Robert Aldrich, Orson Welles, Joseph Losey, for example.
Fuller's complete avoidance of this tradition is one reason that The Crimson
Kimono looks so much unlike mainstream film noir.
Fuller does not tilt his camera very much in dialogue shots. This is also
different from much of film noir.
The S-Shapes
Some of the compositions in the film involve S-shapes. A shot, showing City
Hall reflected in a store window in Little Tokyo, has S-shaped regions
surrounding the plate glass with the reflection. This shot is one of Fuller's
cleverest compositions linking City Hall and the Japanese district in Los Angeles.
Much of the camera movement at the doll show (the highlight of the film) can
be described as S-shapes. The camera keeps framing the corridors at the show,
together with "empty" wall space framing the characters, as S-forms. These
S-shaped regions are the spaces occupied by the characters, while the tables with
dolls around them block out the regions outside the S. Fuller shows great
ingenuity, in constantly discovering or creating new S-shaped regions, as he
moves his camera around at the show.
Mike Grost
23806
From: Fred Camper
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 1:06am
Subject: Re: Re: "Monkey on My Back"
I'm obviously losing it -- the post I wrote just now was about "Man on a
String," which is terrific. I do remember seeing "Monkey on My Back"
once, and I do agree with Richard. "Man on a String" is much better.
Fred Camper
23807
From: Yoel Meranda
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 1:28am
Subject: Re: Breer's films in Anthology: See or Die
I just came back home from a terrible disappointment... You are right
that the films were shown yesterday and I'm glad no one was there
(except me) to see the films.
I'm sure most of you had similar experiences and this was very very
depressing... expecting that I will have one of the best hours of my
life and walking home with no hope of seeing any Breer films for a
long time.
I apologize for this, I should have been more careful before sending
a post to the group but Village Voice is usually my source in picking
what I'll see so I trusted them. This is actually the second time
that it happens (Village Voice not getting the day of an Anthology
screening right) so be careful! I will certainly check other sources
next time. Again, I apologize...
I should be the one "to be tortured, or killed, or something like
that."
Yoel
23808
From: Joseph Kaufman
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 3:39am
Subject: Re: Debra Hill
>John Carpenter's former writing/producing/life-partner Debra Hill
>just died, I'm
>told.
It's scary to hear that kind of news. She worked on the original
ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13 as script supervisor, so I knew her back then.
What I know of her past is that she was leftist/political during the
Vietnam era, when she was in college in Philly. As is generally
known took up with John Carpenter and together they wrote HALLOWEEN.
I have the sense that most of the teen girl interaction that was a
significant part of that film came from her.
After she broke up with John she had a tenure as a pretty high up
executive at Paramount, then left. There must be an untold story
about those years. She did give Terry Gilliam a job directing THE
FISHER KING in one of his many can't-get-hired periods. Last time I
saw her was at a HALLOWEEN cast and crew reunion a few years ago,
where I was struck with how middle-aged tired she looked.
--
- Joe Kaufman
23809
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 3:46am
Subject: Re: The Crimson Kimono (Samuel Fuller)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> The Crimson Kimono
> This excellent film shows several of Samuel Fuller's strong points
as a
> filmmaker
Briliant, Mike. Crimson Kimono is one of my favorite Fullers, and
your critique of it is the best I've read. What did you think of the
camera movement in the apartment when Corbett is geting up at the
beginning? I assume it was an all-in-one, although Sam cuts into it
at a couple of points. Your description of the camera movement
sequences as objets d'art seems right for a film where so many of the
characters are artists, and the last line is in praise of man-made
art over nature. I believe this was Sam's only film about his adopted
home, Los Angeles, until White Dog many years later.
23810
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 3:50am
Subject: Re: The Crimson Kimono (Samuel Fuller)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> The Crimson Kimono
One more thought - the "anti-noir" noir of Crimson Kimono recalls a
San Francisco film that ends in Chinatown, where noir lighting (but
not the odd angles) is pretty much avoided by a director who also
made one of the "noirest" of noirs, Touch of Evil. I wonder if
Welles' awareness of Out of the Past, which also goes from NY to
Acapulco to San Francisco (not counting that little town at the
beginning and end), made him avoid copying the
quintessentially "noir" noir of Tourneur's film.
23811
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 3:55am
Subject: Re: Debra Hill
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Kaufman wrote:
> >John Carpenter's former writing/producing/life-partner Debra Hill
> >just died, I'm
> >told.
>
> It's scary to hear that kind of news.
I'm told it was cancer, and that she had already had two legs
amputated because of it. She was quite a beauty. I met her when she
was producing Halloween III and later Drive-In Classics for Showtime.
It was right after the big quake, and she was on the phone w.
Carpenter, who called to see how she was and reported on how Adrienne
Barbeau had come thru it. The family feeling I picked up on the set
of Halloween III seemed to be an ongoing part of her and Carpenter's
world, ex-gf's included.
23812
From: Joseph Kaufman
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 4:21am
Subject: Re: Debra Hill
Bill wrote:
>I'm told it was cancer, and that she had already had two legs
>amputated because of it. She was quite a beauty....
She was the sexpot of the behind the camera people on ASSAULT, at
least as perceived by the guys. She always was competent and
no-nonsense, male perceptions aside.
--
- Joe Kaufman
23813
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 4:31am
Subject: Tourneur and noir (Was: The Crimson Kimono)
> I wonder if
> Welles' awareness of Out of the Past, which also goes from NY to
> Acapulco to San Francisco (not counting that little town at the
> beginning and end), made him avoid copying the
> quintessentially "noir" noir of Tourneur's film.
I'd argue that Tourneur's use of light isn't typical of noir - those
illuminated backgrounds and empty spaces are distinctive. - Dan
23814
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 5:02am
Subject: Re: The Crimson Kimono (Samuel Fuller)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
"I wonder if Welles' awareness of Out of the Past, which also goes
from NY to Acapulco to San Francisco (not counting that little town
at the beginning and end), made him avoid copying the
quintessentially "noir" noir of Tourneur's film."
The little town is Bridgeport. The trajectory isn't straight to San
Francisco but to Emerald Bay at Lake Tahoe. San Francisco is a kind
of side trip, and before Jeff and Cathy go north they stop in Los
Angeles.
The parallels in geography are interesting though, but city/country
contrast in ON DANGEROUS GROUND seems to have more in common with OUT
OF THE PAST.
By the way, I've actually been to all the locations in the movie:
Bridgeport, NYC, Acapulco, Los Angeles, the Walker River (where
Stefanos is killed,)San Francisco and Emerald Bay. As of the early
1990s Bridgeport and the Walker River looked almost the same.
Concerning THE CRIMSON KIMONO, a very remarkable sequence occurs when
Joe interrogates one of his informants at the Nisei section of
Evergreen Cemetary where the memorial to the Japanese-American war
dead stands. Fuller's camera lingers on this memorial with shots of
the plaque of statements of commendation by Eisenhower and Clark.
From there Fuller takes the story to Koyasan Temple for the memorial
service (conducted in Japanese) which he shows beyond any
requirements of advancing the plot. To me this is one of the great
things about Fuller (in addition to all the things Mike articulated,0
his ability to add this kind of depth to a seeming B crime thriller.
Richard
23815
From: Andy Rector
Date: Mon Mar 7, 2005 11:59pm
Subject: Re: "Monkey on My Back"
There isn't much to recommend about it, seems little more than
a "problem" film of the time. All the same I hope someone CAN speak
up for it.
-andy
23816
From: Jim Healy
Date: Mon Mar 7, 2005 7:05pm
Subject: It's in the Bag (was Hellzapoppin and Dante's Hell)
Anyone else here a fan of Richard Wallace's 'It's In the Bag' (1945)?
It's a hilarious self-referential Fred Allen vehicle, in which a
number of personalities play themselves, like Jack Benny and William
Bendix. It also has, for me, the funniest scene ever shot in a movie
theater - a sequence which contains the line, 'we don't make these
movies, we just show them', which was later to be uttered by Paul
Bartel in 'Gremlins 2'.
For me, 'It's In the Bag' is just shy of 'Hellzapoppin'' in terms of
laughs.
I guess it was released on video at one point and is part of the
Republic library now owned by Viacom/Paramount (it was originally a
UA release), but it's just as hard, if not harder, to find
than 'Hellzapoppin'' I just saw a very beat-up print of 'Bag' and I'm
looking for a better one for a Summer series.
When I put together a Joe Dante tribute in Chicago in 2000, I found a
couple of very good 35mm archival prints, but despite a lot of
effort, I was unable to determine who owns the rights and get their
approval to show it. Apparently, in the U.S., screenings
of 'Hellzapoppin'' need to be cleared through the heirs of Olsen and
Johnson, whoever they are. Universal, I think, still has distribution
rights in every other country. I was finally able to see the film in
2001 in Paris. I was told that the theater in the Latin Quarter where
I saw it shows it every Sunday. I don't know if they still do. I have
the Australian dvd and the transfer is just ok, but far better than
other bootlegs I've seen.
Jim Healy
23817
From:
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 7:04am
Subject: Re: Tourneur and noir (Was: The Crimson Kimono)
In a message dated 05-03-07 23:33:56 EST, Dan Sallitt writes:
<< I'd argue that Tourneur's use of light isn't typical of noir - those
illuminated backgrounds and empty spaces are distinctive. >>
Agree. "Out of the Past" is utterly noir in terms of story and dialogue -
perhaps the quintessential noir screenplay. But Tourneur's visuals are completely
his own. They do not have much in common with the visuals in a so-called
"typical" noir movie - there are few extreme high or low camera angles, not a lot
of high contrast lighting, little emphasis on mirrors, staircases, portraits,
wire-frame beds, clocks and other noir imagery (which tends to derive from
Fritz Lang). Instead, we get Tourneur's "perspective" shots, where he shoots down
an outdoor street or indoor corridor, and lots of scenes taking place under
Tourneur's beloved porticos and porches.
Mike Grost
23818
From:
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 7:20am
Subject: Re: The Crimson Kimono (Samuel Fuller)
In a message dated 05-03-07 22:53:52 EST, Bill Krohn writes:
<< What did you think of the camera movement in the apartment when Corbett is
geting up at the beginning? >>
The long-take sequences in the heroes' apratment are remarkable. They tend to
be shot at eye-level, and are quite astonishing in the way they wander all
over and explore the apartment. They remind one a little of Phil Karlson
exploring the hotel suite and corridor in "Tight Spot" (1955). But mainly these
Fuller shots are very un-noir as well. They seem to derive from a far more ancient
and independent world of great camera movement. (Paging Murnau, Ophuls,
Mizoguchi, Resnais...)
The best definition of film noir: "Hollywood crime thrillers made from
1940-1963 that are not series whodunits." (Series whodunits are Saint, Falcon,
Charlie Chan movies, etc.) By this definition, Fuller's crime films are film noir.
But Fuller's work is so individualistic, and has so little in common with most
noir in terms of either theme or visual style, that it seems
counter-productive to classify his work as being noir. The same is true for Hitchcock,
although "Shadow of a Doubt" certainly has some noir features.
Bill Krohn's suggestions of a Welles influence or anti-influence on Fuller is
fascinating. I still have not read Fuller's autobiography, never met him, and
actually don't know very much about him other than his brilliant films. Was
Fuller a regular moviegoer? Was he interested in Welles?
Mike Grost
23819
From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 0:33pm
Subject: Re: Tourneur and noir (Was: The Crimson Kimono)
> Agree. "Out of the Past" is utterly noir in terms of story and
dialogue -
> perhaps the quintessential noir screenplay. But Tourneur's visuals
are completely
> his own. They do not have much in common with the visuals in a so-
called
> "typical" noir movie - there are few extreme high or low camera
angles, not a lot
> of high contrast lighting, little emphasis on mirrors, staircases,
portraits,
> wire-frame beds, clocks and other noir imagery (which tends to
derive from
> Fritz Lang).
The film departs from noir in story terms by using rural and small
town settings for much of the action, which isn't typical.
I don't actually consider frequent high and low angles as being an
essential stylistic of noir, and I'd argue that when Tourneur DOES
use high contrast lighting, as in the fight scene where Mithcum's
partner gets it, it MATTERS.
The film also deploys visual symbolism in a classically noirish way -
fishing nets as backdrop to Greer's seduction of Mitchum, a wet door
banging in the wind during the love scene itself...
I think what we have is archetypal noir stylistics shot through with
and subtly transformed by Tourneur's more languid style, which
emerges in the pacing and the performances. Ie it's both a noir
classic and a deeply personal film from an individual stylist.
D Cairns
23820
From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 0:39pm
Subject: Re: compressed time, inanimate objects, depopulated spaces
> Thanks for all the great leads. I disregarded strict shot
> transitions because I was looking for cases where the narrative
> continued taking over without aid of actors, but continuing their
> story. In this case, people on screen was okay as long as they
> didn't dominate as actors.
I don't quite get this distinction - many transitions do not involve
actors.
Two spring to mind - in CITIZEN KANE the dissolves that show the
abandoned (spoilers) Rosebud progressively more covered with snow.
In GO WEST the dissolve that shows a train journey's duration by the
degree to which Buster's bread roll has been chewed down.
D Cairns
23821
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 2:22pm
Subject: Re: It's in the Bag (was Hellzapoppin and Dante's Hell)
--- Jim Healy wrote:
>
> Anyone else here a fan of Richard Wallace's 'It's In
> the Bag' (1945)?
Present!
BTW, it should be pointed out that its source material
is identical to that of what Mel Brooks' best but
least-known films, "The Twelve Chairs."
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
23822
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 2:31pm
Subject: Re: The Crimson Kimono (Samuel Fuller)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
>
> Bill Krohn's suggestions of a Welles influence or anti-influence on
Fuller is
> fascinating. I still have not read Fuller's autobiography, never
met him, and
> actually don't know very much about him other than his brilliant
films. Was
> Fuller a regular moviegoer? Was he interested in Welles?
>
I don't know if there was a Welles influence, but he was a filmgoer,
like all filmmakers. He did cite E. A. Dupont to me as an early
influence. As far as I know his favorite film was The Informer - he
owned a copy. Ford visited him on the first day of shooting of seven
pictures, an honor accorded to no other filmmaker I'm aware of. Sam
was good friends with many filmmakers in the 50s, including Hawks,
Boetticher and Anthony Mann. Of course in the 70s and 80s his circle
of friends became international and included just about everyone -
that's when he met Bunuel, for example, who loved Shock Corridor. He
was supposed to meet Welles in Paris but bowed out - he was afraid, I
think, although the excuse he used was: "I would only want to meet
him if I could hand him a check to make a picture."
23823
From: Jim Healy
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 6:17pm
Subject: Re: It's in the Bag (was Hellzapoppin and Dante's Hell)
David Ehrenstein wrote:
>
> >
> > Anyone else here a fan of Richard Wallace's 'It's In
> > the Bag' (1945)?
>
> Present!
>
> BTW, it should be pointed out that its source material
> is identical to that of what Mel Brooks' best but
> least-known films, "The Twelve Chairs."
>
Yes, but aside from the search for a chair that contains a fortune, the
comparison ends there. I like 'Twelve Chairs' too, but despite sharing
source material with 'Bag', it's the least fourth-wall breaking film of
Brooks'. It's perhaps his most conventional film narrative-wise, but I
prefer it to almost everything he made after 'Young Frankenstein'.
Jim Healy
23824
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 3:33pm
Subject: Friday the 13th 10: No More Mr. Nice Guy
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?
tmpl=story&cid=638&ncid=579&e=9&u=/nm/20050308/en_nm/film_tarantino_dc
23825
From: Fred Patton
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 3:57pm
Subject: Re: compressed time, inanimate objects, depopulated spaces
My disregard of transitions was only to their fleeting duration. The
history of film has a laudable resume of exquisite shot transitions
in silent film history alone. But to carry on the effect for
extended duration, from minutes on up, appears altogether extremely
rare. I admit it's a strange question and smacks of trivia, but on
the other hand, it constituted a grappling with the nature and
limitations of narration, particularly film.
Why narrate the story of your principals, without them? This does
seem increasingly absurd and misguided. But it's still interesting
to consider that after having built up charged resonance upon
objects, locations, or anything more abstract, and having tied this
resonance to a particular human narrative, how much further can that
story be advanced by proxy before picking it up again? And what
could be gained by this indirect narration? It could be useful as in
the case of off-screen sound that advances the story by inference.
There have been some interesting examples, and in every case, as a
sort of epilogue, and certainly the Rosebud example fits. I've not
seen THE GHOST OF MRS MUIR nor any ANGELOPOULOS film yet, and I
must. What was also fruitful from this bizarre thread was the comic
book example:
"Slightly off-topic, but the technique of displacing character
emotion onto "empty" scenes is almost a defining feature of the
artsier kind of modern comic book -- Chris Ware's JIMMY CORRIGAN,
for example." –JTW.
Thanks. I'm going to go look into that, and how fitting that Alain
Resnais was fundamentally influenced by comics in regards to
approaches to narrative.
With that, I shall de-insinuate myself and exit stage left to resume
partaking of the delicious flow of discourse.
Fred Patton
23826
From: Jim Healy
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 6:18pm
Subject: Re: Re: Hellzapoppin'
Aaron Graham wrote:
> --- In keeping with the thread, I've just found this article (Joe Dante
> on Hellzapoppin') online:
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml;sessionid=YYMCXAOEWRZPVQFIQ
> MFCM54AVCBQYJVC?xml=/arts/2003/12/20/bffmof20.xml
>
In this article, Joe says that the rights are owned by the Alexander Cohen
estate, but I contacted Cohen's son in 2000 and he confirmed for me that
his Dad did own the rights for a while in the seventies, but shortly after
the Jerry Lewis show was mounted, the rights reverted back to the Olsen and
Johnson estate.
Jim Healy
23827
From: samfilms2003
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 5:59pm
Subject: Re: Tourneur and noir (Was: The Crimson Kimono)
I agree with D. Cairns.
Maybe Torneur (and Nick Musaraca, don't forget !) isn't Reinhardt > UFA
school, but I think Out Of The Past is significantly "noir", only - gee more
Jacques Torneur-like, OK I'm using circular reasoning.
You can't totally separate noir from classic B&W technique of the time; everyone
knew what everyone else was doing, and the DP's we're concerned with
on this subject were pushing the envelope (I'm not fond of that phrase, but..)
when they could. "Noir" directors were the enablers of this !!
-Sam Wells
23828
From: Robert Keser
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 5:59pm
Subject: Re: "Monkey on My Back"
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ptonguette@a... wrote:
> I wonder if I could solicit any words of recommendation for Andre
> de Toth's "Monkey on My Back"?
This film seemed to me very much a commissioned piece that de Toth
could not bend to his own concerns, but maybe I'm missing something
in it. The high point to me was the quasi-surreal sequence that
illustrates the hero's "cold turkey" cure from heroin addiction,
which de Toth presents via subjective perceptual hallucinations,
such as the ceiling cracking and falling down in pieces (very
interesting to compare against Preminger's objective approach in the
corresponding scene in "Man With the Golden Arm", which focuses
solely on observing the physical writhing and discomfort of Frank
Sinatra's character).
One notable feature of the (superior) "Man On a String" is de Toth's
handling of the CIA agents sent to "turn" the Ernest Borgnine
character. True to the Hollywood ideology of that era, one would
expect them to be presented as heroic defenders of America against
the Communist menace. In fact, they are played as consistently
hostile, aggressive, and surprisingly unsympathetic!
--Robert Keser
23829
From: Peter Henne
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 7:49pm
Subject: Re: It's in the Bag (was Hellzapoppin and Dante's Hell)
Just a brief personal story on "Hellzapoppin'":
More than a decade ago, I interviewed Maurizio Nichetti, director of "The Icicle Thief." When I asked him about influences on that film apart from de Sica and Fellini, right away he cited "Hellzapoppin'." I hadn't seen nor heard of the film, which surprised him, as he explained it was well-known in Italy. Of course I wasn't able to track it down in video stores, and Andy Klein then of the L.A. Reader later explained some of the problems of distribution rights over the film to me. (Thank you again, Andy.) Since that interview date I've eagerly awaited for the film to re-surface, so far without luck. Now that a_film_by contributors have posted some DVD leads, I might yet get my viewing chance. Thanks.
Peter Henne
Jim Healy wrote:
I found a
couple of very good 35mm archival prints, but despite a lot of
effort, I was unable to determine who owns the rights and get their
approval to show it. Apparently, in the U.S., screenings
of 'Hellzapoppin'' need to be cleared through the heirs of Olsen and
Johnson, whoever they are. Universal, I think, still has distribution
rights in every other country. I was finally able to see the film in
2001 in Paris. I was told that the theater in the Latin Quarter where
I saw it shows it every Sunday. I don't know if they still do. I have
the Australian dvd and the transfer is just ok, but far better than
other bootlegs I've seen.
Jim Healy
---------------------------------
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
23830
From: programming
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 8:13pm
Subject: Theresa Wright dies
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050308/ap_on_en_mo/obit_wright
Patrick F.
23831
From: Dave Garrett
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 9:20pm
Subject: Re: Hellzapoppin'
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Jim Healy wrote:
> In this article, Joe says that the rights are owned by the Alexander Cohen
> estate, but I contacted Cohen's son in 2000 and he confirmed for me that
> his Dad did own the rights for a while in the seventies, but shortly after
> the Jerry Lewis show was mounted, the rights reverted back to the Olsen and
> Johnson estate.
I seem to recall a discussion concerning the rights situation to
HELLZAPOPPIN' in another forum in the not-too-distant past, and the
consensus was that the Olsen & Johnson heirs did indeed jointly
own the rights, but the problem was that some sort of disagreement
between the respective heirs had grown into outright antipathy,
and there was no hope of clearing the rights until the heirs
patched things up between themselves. At the time, it appeared
that such a resolution was unlikely, hence the film remains in
legal limbo.
Dave
23832
From: thebradstevens
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 9:58pm
Subject: Re: Hellzapoppin'
> I seem to recall a discussion concerning the rights situation to
> HELLZAPOPPIN' in another forum in the not-too-distant past, and the
> consensus was that the Olsen & Johnson heirs did indeed jointly
> own the rights, but the problem was that some sort of disagreement
> between the respective heirs had grown into outright antipathy,
> and there was no hope of clearing the rights until the heirs
> patched things up between themselves. At the time, it appeared
> that such a resolution was unlikely, hence the film remains in
> legal limbo.
Perhaps the situation is different in Europe. As I pointed out in a
previous post, the film is frequently screened on UK television.
23833
From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 2:35pm
Subject: Re: Breer's films in Anthology: See or Die
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Yoel Meranda" wrote:
>
> This is actually the second time
> that it happens (Village Voice not getting the day of an Anthology
> screening right) so be careful!
They've grown increasingly unreliable (despite which, having misplaced my Anthology calendar, I ended up double-checking at the last minute only because I was running late and hoping the show might actually be at 8 or something). But that's just human error. What's worse is their omission, these days, of any comment or description (by J Hoberman of course) for so many screenings of note, from Breer to Boetticher. (By comparison, the Chicago Reader seems to have capsule reviews of everything, doing a much better job of keeping its readers informed -- although maybe there are fewer revivals and rarities in Chicago, I don't know. Oh well.)
23834
From: jerome_gerber
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 7:21pm
Subject: Teresa Wright has passed away
The delicate, uniquely talented Teresa Wright has passed away. R.I.P.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Movies/03/08/obit.wright.ap/index.html
23835
From: samfilms2003
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 11:46pm
Subject: Re: Tourneur and noir (Was: The Crimson Kimono)
p.s. This probably deserves more than my brief post; if time I'll try to
say more (& about "The Lady From Shanghai" in this context).
-Sam
23836
From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 11:59pm
Subject: What is the sound of one hand clapping?
At the memorial for Hunter Thompson, neighbor and actor Don Johnson
remembered once asking Thompson: What is the sound of one hand
clapping? Thompson responded by slapping Johnson across the face.
This would make a terrific film scene.
23837
From:
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 7:19pm
Subject: Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?
I think there was something similar on "The Rockford Files", the private eye
TV show with James Garner.
An annoying dippy college student joins a religious cult against the pleading
of all family & friends. The cult leader is always dispensing preudo-profound
philosophy.
Eventually the cult leader slaps the student.
"I guess that's the sound of one hand clapping," Garner mutters.
This was circa 1980...
Mike Grost
23838
From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 8:18pm
Subject: Re: Friday the 13th 10: No More Mr. Nice Guy
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666" wrote:
>
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?
> tmpl=story&cid=638&ncid=579&e=9&u=/nm/20050308/en_nm/film_tarantino_dc
I call bullshit.
23839
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 0:28am
Subject: Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?
I wondered how 'original' HT's active response was; I knew if it had
appeared on the screen already, someone here would know.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> I think there was something similar on "The Rockford Files", the private eye
> TV show with James Garner.
> An annoying dippy college student joins a religious cult against the pleading
> of all family & friends. The cult leader is always dispensing preudo-profound
> philosophy.
> Eventually the cult leader slaps the student.
> "I guess that's the sound of one hand clapping," Garner mutters.
> This was circa 1980...
>
> Mike Grost
23840
From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 6:20pm
Subject: What is the sound of one hand clapping?
At the memorial for Hunter Thompson, neighbor and actor Don Johnson
remembered once asking Thompson: What is the sound of one hand
clapping? Thompson responded by slapping Johnson across the face.
This would make a terrific film scene.
23841
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 0:50am
Subject: Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth Anne Nolan"
wrote:
"I wondered how 'original' HT's active response was; I knew if it had
appeared on the screen already, someone here would know."
The koan was by Hakuin (1689-1769)and goes: "You know the sound of
two hands clapping, what is the sound of one hand?" He gave the koan
to his disciple Enji who worked on it for several years, finally Enji
appered before Hakuin and was asked the question. He slapped Hakuin
in the face and Hakuin made Enji his dharma heir.
Now the question is, was Johnson enlightened by Thompson's slap?
Richard
23842
From: Joseph Kaufman
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 8:15pm
Subject: Re: It's in the Bag (was Hellzapoppin and Dante's Hell)
>Now that a_film_by contributors have posted some DVD leads, I might
>yet get my viewing chance. Thanks.
>
>Peter Henne
Peter, you're always welcome to come see it over at my place.
--
- Joe Kaufman
23843
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 0:11am
Subject: Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?
Apparently Johnson isn't quite as brain dead as I
thought.
Does anybody in the group remember him in his younger
days in "The Magic Garden of Stanley Sweetheart" ?
Back then he was a kind of "cleaned up" Hollywood
version of Joe Dallesandro.
--- Elizabeth Nolan wrote:
> At the memorial for Hunter Thompson, neighbor and
> actor Don Johnson
> remembered once asking Thompson: What is the sound
> of one hand
> clapping? Thompson responded by slapping Johnson
> across the face.
>
> This would make a terrific film scene.
>
>
__________________________________________________
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23844
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 1:57am
Subject: What does the text explain? (was:Re: What is the sound of one hand clapping?
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Modiano"
wrote:
>>
> The koan was by Hakuin (1689-1769)and goes: "You know the sound of
> two hands clapping, what is the sound of one hand?" He gave the
koan
> to his disciple Enji who worked on it for several years, finally
Enji
> appered before Hakuin and was asked the question. He slapped
Hakuin
> in the face and Hakuin made Enji his dharma heir.
>
> Now the question is, was Johnson enlightened by Thompson's slap?
>
> Richard
Once there was an old man who asked a Buddhist scholar, "Of
the 'so' and the 'sho', which is broader in meaning?" The scholar
said, "'Sho' explains the 'so' and 'so' explains the text." The old
man said, "What does the text explain?" The scholar was speechless.
A koan -- by Master Kido (960-1229) -- to be pondered by
auteurists. (I particularly dedicate it to Bill K.) JPC
23845
From: samfilms2003
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 2:51am
Subject: Re: compressed time, inanimate objects, depopulated spaces
There's the crumbling room in Tarkovsky's "Mirror" although
I don't know if that is a transition compressing a lot of time -
or even, in terms of the system of Tarkovsky's narrative in
that film if it's a "transition" even....
It seems weird to me I can't think of a bunch of examples of
what you're asking about. Like I am having a memory lapse.
Otherwise, I could stretch it a bit, and suggest that the
compressed time, inanimate objects and depopulated spaces
are woven as it were into Hou Hsiao-hsien's mise-en-scene and
narratives - in Puppetmaster; Good Men, Good Women"
but I have Hou on the brain lately
-Sam
23846
From: samfilms2003
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 2:54am
Subject: Re: compressed time, inanimate objects, depopulated spaces
> Why narrate the story of your principals, without them?
"Son nom de Venise dans Calcutta désert " ; Margurite Duras ;-)
-Sam
23847
From: peckinpah20012000
Date: Tue Mar 8, 2005 10:35pm
Subject: Re: The Crimson Kimono (Samuel Fuller)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
>
> > Yes, a really fascinating discussion. If only CHINA GATE would
appear in scope format on DVD! It really needs to be viewed in that
format and I think would lend itself to the type of analysis Mike
has done so well.
Tony Williams
23848
From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 0:04am
Subject: window pane crying
Most reviews of IN COLD BLOOD comment about the window pane rain
falling as tears on Robert Blake's face, and Conrad Hall saying how
serendipitous that was.
Both A TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN (about to deliver pregnant mother talking
with Frances) and ALICE ADAMS (Alice trying to hold back her tears at
the window) have similar implied tears from the rain scenes, though
neither as technically skilled or temporally perfect.
23849
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 3:38am
Subject: Re: compressed time, inanimate objects, depopulated spaces
In Alice Adams, the fading of the cut flowers while Alice awaits
a male caller indicates that several days have passed.
23850
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 0:15am
Subject: Re: Hellzapoppin'
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "thebradstevens"
wrote:
>
>>
>
> Perhaps the situation is different in Europe. As I pointed out in
a
> previous post, the film is frequently screened on UK television.
And a few years ago there was a movie theatre in Paris that kept
showing the film for many months and perhaps years, scheduling it
once a week.
23851
From: Paul Fileri
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 10:54am
Subject: Critique cinephilosophie and Bref
For our beloved French-reading contingent, this is a pointer towards to
publications currently on the newsstand that are worth seeking out and
may be overlooked.
The Jan-Feb issue of CRITIQUE (no. 692-693), devoted to
"cinephilosophie," is edited by Marc Cerisuelo and Élie During, and it
includes a number of excellent lengthy pieces (Alain Badiou, a review
of Youssef Ishaghpour's gigantic tome on Welles, Cerisuelo on
cinephilia, Erik Bullot on Serge Daney, Patrice Blouin on Louis
Skorecki's collections of his Libération TV columns, a piece on Stanley
Cavell, and an interview with Jacques Ranciere).
http://www.leseditionsdeminuit.fr/titres/2005/critique-692.htm
The Mar-Apr issue of BREF: LE MAGAZINE DU COURT MÉTRAGE (no. 65)
features a sizable dossier on the essay-film. Nicole Brenez
contributes an essay on "Four Dimensions of the Filmic Essay," an
article on Sharif Waked's video short CHIC POINT (2003), and a piece on
Godard's DANS LE NOIR DU TEMPS from TEN MINUTES OLDER: THE CELLO. I
haven't read through much of it yet, but it looks quite good. Other
shorts highlighted in other pieces include SLON TANGO, LES STATUES
MEURENT AUSSI, Jean-Daniel Pollet's L'ORDRE (1973), Artavazd
Pelechian's LES SAISONS (1972), the work of Dominique
Gonzalez-Foerster, CHANTAL AKERMAN PAR CHANTAL AKERMAN, Luc Moullet's
LES MINUTES D'UN FAISEUR DE FILMS (1983), and SCENES FROM THE LIFE OF
ANDY WARHOL.
http://www.agencecm.com/pages/bref_accueil.html
Also I can't recommend highly enough the book GODARD: SIMPLE COMME
BONJOUR by Suzanne Liandrat-Guigues and Jean-Louis Leutrat, which just
came out a few months ago. It freely and lively traverses Godard's
career from the 1950s shorts up through HISTOIRE(S) DU CINEMA without
ever being straitjacketed by a chronological approach. The links that
Leutrat and Liandrat-Guiges draw between his early and later output are
organized into thematic and formal-oriented chapters and there's a
much-welcomed emphasis on minutely tracing Godard's citations and
looking intensely at short extracts, credit sequences, and the short
films that have largely been ignored in commentary on JLG's work.
- Paul
23852
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 2:28pm
Subject: Re: Re: Breer's films in Anthology: See or Die
> > This is actually the second time
>> that it happens (Village Voice not getting the day of an Anthology
>> screening right) so be careful!
>
> They've grown increasingly unreliable
For a paper with such a big film rep, they've been neglectful of their
listings for a long time. If they run out of space in the film section,
they chop off the retro listings at M or S or wherever the page ends.... -
Dan
23853
From: Brandon
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 4:15pm
Subject: Re: window pane crying
>Both A TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN (about to deliver pregnant mother talking
>with Frances) and ALICE ADAMS (Alice trying to hold back her tears at
>the window) have similar implied tears from the rain scenes, though
>neither as technically skilled or temporally perfect.
Oh, lots of films use that trick these days. I can't think of any examples
right now, but I notice it a lot... maybe "The Usual Suspects" when Edie is
in Kobayashi's office? Can't remember for sure, but there is a significant
reflection in that scene.
I enjoyed the similar trick in "A.I. Artificial Intelligence" when David's
fall from the building reflects off Gigolo Joe's face as a single
teardrop... of course, neither David nor Joe can cry, so that was the only
way to do it.
23854
From: Frederick M. Veith
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 4:29pm
Subject: Robert Breer (not the Village Voice)
As someone who went to the Breer program at Anthology on Sunday, I found
it a bit of a mixed bag. I really liked some of the films (esp. Breathing)
but found some of them a bit hard to take (Gulls and Buoys and Fuji) and
I'm frankly baffled by the fact that Pat's Birthday is in the Essential
Cinema, but maybe I missed something there (by about a mile). I'd like to
ask Yoel and Fred and anyone else who responds to Breer's work which films
they find most valuable and how well that particular program was
representative of his work as a whole. For reference, the program was:
Form Phase I
Form Phases II
Recreation
Jamestown Baloos
Eyewash
Blazes
Pat's Birthday
Breathing
Fist Fight
66
69
70
Gulls and Buoys
Fuji
Fred.
23855
From: samfilms2003
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 5:22pm
Subject: Re: Hellzapoppin'
> And a few years ago there was a movie theatre in Paris that kept
> showing the film for many months and perhaps years, scheduling it
> once a week.
Better that than Harold And Maude or King Of Hearts
-Sam (who can't spel Marguerite)
23856
From: samfilms2003
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 5:33pm
Subject: Re: Breer's films in Anthology: See or Die
> For a paper with such a big film rep, they've been neglectful of their
> listings for a long time. If they run out of space in the film section,
> they chop off the retro listings at M or S or wherever the page ends.... -
> Dan
I like some of the film writers - Hoberman, Lim, Ed Halter
(disclaimer I have reason to be biased) but it's like they squeeze
the writing in there now.
Sometimes it seems like they really want to be Screw Magazine.
Maybe Al Goldstein should start a NY weekly, a writer's newspaper,
hire Jonas to write a Movie Journal etc :)
-Sam
23857
From: Fred Camper
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 5:38pm
Subject: Re: Robert Breer (not the Village Voice)
This program represents Robert Breer's work up until "Fuji" pretty well.
I like "Pat's Birthday" but it's been too long since I've seen it for me
to offer a defense. But liking "Breathing" and being baffled by "Gulls
and Buoys" and "Fuji" is to me somewhat like liking "Window Water Baby
Moving" and "Mothlight" and being baffled by "The Riddle of Lumen" -- or
liking "Sabotage" and "The Lady Vanishes" and being baffled by
"Vertigo." Breer keeps getting greater.
"Gulls and Buoys" and "Fuji" mark a shift in Breer's work, though one
that when I asked him he didn't really acknowledge, away from the
European-inspired modernism (Mondrian was a key early influence) of his
earlier films and toward a more "American" and Brakhage-oriented
aesthetic, in which "abstraction" enriches daily seeing. Rotoscoping to
"copy" actual objects in motion but doing so "crudely" and in a way that
reveals the artifice is a way of connecting film projection and the
glitches of hand-made work back to eyesight and to the physiology of
daily seeing. The spaces of these films are wonderfully poetic for me --
objects seem to float in "Gulls and Buoys," the snow triangle atop Mt.
Fuji wanders and returns in "Fuji." The mix of rotoscoped and
geometrical forms suggests that geometrical structures and the
phenomenal world can coexist -- and in this sense the films still
reflect Mondrian, but not to the extent that the geometry is seen as
hierarchically superior to ordinary things. Indeed, the films argue with
the hierarchical thinking characterizing abstract art in the first half
of the 20th century: the most ordinary of objects is seen by Breer as
imbued with the same power and energy as an abstract shape. There's a
constant intermixing of the "pure" and the anecdotal here, to the
enrichment of both. The effect of these films for me is to deepen and
enrich my daily seeing: when the opening of "Fuji" returns at the end,
my perception of this ordinary home-movie footage is profoundly changed
because of the way the film has "analyzed" it. These films are also
truly ecstatic in rhythm and effect, in the way Breer's use of flicker
interacts with my physiology.
There's more in the review of mine that Yoel cited and in Breer's great
interviews and little essays in FILM CULTURE, the most important of
which was two long interviews in an issue of the early 70s.
Fred Camper
23858
From: Patrick Ciccone
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 7:45pm
Subject: John M. Stahl
Has there ever been a major, let alone somewhat complete,
retrospective of the surviving John Stahl films in the US? I seem to
remember a significant Paris retrospective, either shortly before or
after my early 2002 sojourn there.
I've only seen LEAVE HER TO HEAVEN, among my top 10 or 15 favorite
films, and will be catching ONLY YESTERDAY tonight, which BAM says
hasn't been shown in 35mm for decades.
I also missed BAM's PARNELL and the YWCA's 16mm WALLS OF JERICHO
screenings of recent vintage, but I can't seem to recall any Stahl
screenings in the past half-decade in New York besides those two.
The DVD selection looks minimal, too.
PWC
23859
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 7:58pm
Subject: Re: John M. Stahl
> will be catching ONLY YESTERDAY tonight, which BAM says
> hasn't been shown in 35mm for decades.
Is that true? Seems to me I've seen it in a theater in the last 10 years
- can't recall the gauge.
> I also missed BAM's PARNELL and the YWCA's 16mm WALLS OF JERICHO
> screenings of recent vintage, but I can't seem to recall any Stahl
> screenings in the past half-decade in New York besides those two.
The very fine HOLY MATRIMONY showed only recently in a Walter Reade
Nunnally Johnson series.
The silent MEMORY LANE showed somewhere (Film Forun, maybe?) within the
last decade, I'm pretty sure.
And STRICTLY DISHONORABLE, which I've never seen, is coming soon to Film
Forum.
I have a vague memory of BACK STREET having played New York not too long
ago, but I'm not sure.
- Dan
23860
From: BklynMagus
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 7:59pm
Subject: Re: John M. Stahl
> Patrick writes:
> Has there ever been a major, let alone somewhat complete,
retrospective of the surviving John Stahl films in the US?
Not that I can remember. I used to some of his films at
Theatre 80, but since its demise, screenings are scarce.
Film Forum will have "Strictly Dishonorable" on April 5 as
part of its early Sturges program. They will also have
(shameless plug for one of my favorite directors of all time)
two films by Mitchell Leisen, "Remember the Night" and "Easy
Living." There is even less Leisen availble than Stahl on DVD,
with only one minor film available.
Brian
23861
From: thebradstevens
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 9:19pm
Subject: Re: window pane crying
>
> Oh, lots of films use that trick these days.
KING OF NEW YORK and THAT WAS THEN, THIS IS NOW come to mind.
23862
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 10:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: John M. Stahl
Well somebody had better put"Midnight" and "Mureder at
the Vanities" out immediately!
--- BklynMagus wrote:
> Living." There is even less Leisen availble than
> Stahl on DVD,
> with only one minor film available.
>
> Brian
>
>
>
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
23863
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 10:29pm
Subject: Re: John M. Stahl
--- Patrick Ciccone wrote:
will be catching ONLY YESTERDAY tonight,
> which BAM says
> hasn't been shown in 35mm for decades.
>
I have been longing to see that one. According to Vito
Russo it's the one time Franklin Pangborn played an
absolutely unambiguously gay man -- complete with boyfriend.
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23864
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 10:28pm
Subject: Re: John M. Stahl
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, BklynMagus wrote:
>
> Film Forum will have "Strictly Dishonorable" on April 5 as
> part of its early Sturges program. They will also have
> (shameless plug for one of my favorite directors of all time)
> two films by Mitchell Leisen, "Remember the Night" and "Easy
> Living." There is even less Leisen availble than Stahl on DVD,
> with only one minor film available.
>
> Brian
"Remember the Night" is a masterpiece, perhaps Leisen's best
film, and Sturges's best script for another director. The Christmas
sequence with the exchange of gifts and Sterling Holloway
singing "The End of a Perfect Day" is magical. The hammy defense
lawyer's speech at the beginning is alone worth the price of
admission. Sturges' taste for crude slapstick is kept to a minimum
(attempts to milk a cow). The Leisen-Sturges collaboration is even
more of a success than "Easy living". The film has been shown on
TCM, and it's available on videocassette for those who still watch
them. Of course it SHOULD be on DVD. JPC
23865
From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 10:54pm
Subject: Re: John M. Stahl
> > will be catching ONLY YESTERDAY tonight, which BAM says
> > hasn't been shown in 35mm for decades.
>
> Is that true? Seems to me I've seen it in a theater in the last 10 years
> - can't recall the gauge.
>
> > I also missed BAM's PARNELL and the YWCA's 16mm WALLS OF JERICHO
> > screenings of recent vintage, but I can't seem to recall any Stahl
> > screenings in the past half-decade in New York besides those two.
> I have a vague memory of BACK STREET having played New York not too long
> ago, but I'm not sure.
I did see LEAVE HER TO HEAVEN in 35mm at the Leonard Nimoy Thalia (in a series called "The Devil Is a Woman" or something).
ONLY YESTERDAY (16mm?) and BACK STREET were at the Walter Reade in 1997:
http://filmlinc.com/archive/programs/8-97/romantics/romantics.htm
23866
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 10:55pm
Subject: Re: window pane crying
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "thebradstevens" wrote:
> > Oh, lots of films use that trick these days.
> KING OF NEW YORK and THAT WAS THEN, THIS IS NOW come to mind.
Alice Adams in 1935 by George Stevens
A Tree Grows in Brooklyn in 1945 by Kazan
Any citations of window pane crying before then?
23867
From: Robert Keser
Date: Wed Mar 9, 2005 11:51pm
Subject: Re: John M. Stahl
--- "jpcoursodon" wrote:
> "Remember the Night" is a masterpiece, perhaps Leisen's best
> film, and Sturges's best script for another director.
Sturges also wrote a terrific script for "The Good Fairy"
(where Herbert Marshall rhapsodizes about his pencil sharpener),
but "Remember the Night" cuts deeper and is indeed a masterpiece.
Why hasn't this become a Xmas classic with multiple showings
throughout the holidays?
Leisen's impeccable direction makes Stanwyck's first visit home in
years both moving and shocking, and the Niagara Falls scene is even
better (not so impressive on the printed page, it comes alive as one
of the most romantic moments in cinema thanks to Leisen's mise-en-
scene: the lovers talking in dense shadows that suggest emotions
they're now daring to admit, the frozen falls in the background
starting to trickle with water like feelings melting. Amazing!)
--Robert Keser
23868
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:02am
Subject: Leiswen (Was: John M. Stahl)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon" wrote:
>
> -
>
> "Remember the Night" is a masterpiece, perhaps Leisen's best
> film, and Sturges's best script for another director. The Christmas
> sequence with the exchange of gifts and Sterling Holloway
> singing "The End of a Perfect Day" is magical. The hammy defense
> lawyer's speech at the beginning is alone worth the price of
> admission. Sturges' taste for crude slapstick is kept to a minimum
> (attempts to milk a cow). The Leisen-Sturges collaboration is even
> more of a success than "Easy living". The film has been shown on
> TCM, and it's available on videocassette for those who still watch
> them. Of course it SHOULD be on DVD. JPC
Desire and Golden Earrings put me off of further Leisenvestigations, but
David Chierrichetti's book is so convincing that it made me go out and buy
Swing High, Swing Low, DC's favorite Leisen. Then JPC posted that it was
garbage, so I've never watched it....
23869
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:07am
Subject: Re: Leiswen (Was: John M. Stahl)
He did? Why? I'm truly surprised. I think it's
teriffic.
--- hotlove666 wrote:
>
> Desire and Golden Earrings put me off of further
> Leisenvestigations, but
> David Chierrichetti's book is so convincing that it
> made me go out and buy
> Swing High, Swing Low, DC's favorite Leisen. Then
> JPC posted that it was
> garbage, so I've never watched it....
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
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23870
From: jess_l_amortell
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:48am
Subject: Re: Leisen (Was: John M. Stahl)
> David Chierrichetti's book is so convincing that it made me go out and buy
> Swing High, Swing Low, DC's favorite Leisen. Then JPC posted that it was
> garbage, so I've never watched it....
The public-domain version I bought was garbage: unwatchable. From online reports, I gathered that other taped editions were comparably moldy-looking (and -sounding). Does anyone know if there's a halfway decent source?
23871
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:09am
Subject: Re: Leiswen (Was: John M. Stahl)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
>> Desire and Golden Earrings put me off of further
Leisenvestigations, but
> David Chierrichetti's book is so convincing that it made me go out
and buy
> Swing High, Swing Low, DC's favorite Leisen. Then JPC posted that
it was
> garbage, so I've never watched it....
I never said such a thing! It must have been some other fellow.
And anyway when did you start paying any attention to my opinions,
Bill? Anyway, do check out "Remember the Night". Forget
about "Golden Earrings" Although I don't quite get what you have
against "Desire". I know Cahiers called Leisen a "grand couturier"
but that was 50 years ago and they didn't know any better. JPC
23872
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:11am
Subject: Re: Leiswen (Was: John M. Stahl)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> He did? Why? I'm truly surprised. I think it's
> teriffic.
>
> --- hotlove666 wrote:
>
> >
> > Desire and Golden Earrings put me off of further
> > Leisenvestigations, but
> > David Chierrichetti's book is so convincing that it
> > made me go out and buy
> > Swing High, Swing Low, DC's favorite Leisen. Then
> > JPC posted that it was
> > garbage, so I've never watched it....
> >
> >
> > Well you see, David, it must have been someone passing himself
as me. JPC
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
23873
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:13am
Subject: Re: Leisen (Was: John M. Stahl)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"
wrote:
>
> > David Chierrichetti's book is so convincing that it made me go
out and buy
> > Swing High, Swing Low, DC's favorite Leisen. Then JPC posted
that it was
> > garbage, so I've never watched it....
>
> The public-domain version I bought was garbage: unwatchable.
From online reports, I gathered that other taped editions were
comparably moldy-looking (and -sounding). Does anyone know if
there's a halfway decent source?
I have never seen it on video, so that absolves me, I guess. JPC
23874
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:29am
Subject: Re: John M. Stahl
> I have been longing to see that one. According to Vito
> Russo it's the one time Franklin Pangborn played an
> absolutely unambiguously gay man -- complete with boyfriend.
It's true. The other guy is more of a trophy date than a boyfriend. - Dan
23875
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:42am
Subject: Leisen (Was: Leiswen)
>> Swing High, Swing Low, DC's favorite Leisen. Then JPC posted that
> it was
>> garbage, so I've never watched it....
>
> I never said such a thing! It must have been some other fellow.
Maybe I'm the culprit (see post #1142). I didn't call it garbage, but I
said that it didn't seem too inspired to me when I saw it.
> Although I don't quite get what you have
> against "Desire". I know Cahiers called Leisen a "grand couturier"
> but that was 50 years ago and they didn't know any better.
Why is everyone talking as if DESIRE is a Leisen film? Do you know
something I don't know? - Dan
23876
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:14am
Subject: Re: Leisen (Was: Leiswen)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> >> Swing High, Swing Low, DC's favorite Leisen. Then JPC posted
that
> > it was
> >> garbage, so I've never watched it....
> >
> > I never said such a thing! It must have been some other
fellow.
>
> Maybe I'm the culprit (see post #1142). I didn't call it garbage,
but I
> said that it didn't seem too inspired to me when I saw it.
>
> > Although I don't quite get what you have
> > against "Desire". I know Cahiers called Leisen a "grand
couturier"
> > but that was 50 years ago and they didn't know any better.
>
> Why is everyone talking as if DESIRE is a Leisen film? Do you
know
> something I don't know? - Dan
I think everyone has been drinking too much or something. You say
Leisen and I say Borzage, you say Lubitsch and I say Preminger,
Leisen, Borzage, Lubitsch, Preminger... let's call the whole thing
off. JPC
23877
From: Brian Charles Dauth
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:21am
Subject: Re: Leisen (was John M. Stahl)
David writes:
> Well somebody had better put"Midnight" and
"Murder at the Vanities" out immediately!
Thankfully both are on TCM this month.
"Murder at the Vanities" -- Tue Mar 29 08:00PM
"Midnight" -- Mon Mar 14 11:30PM
For me "Midnight" is the perfect screwball comedy.
I think Leisen directed Sturges and Wilder better than
they directed themselves (especially Sturges). For me
he was a master of pace. He was also able to get
performances from women and bend gender roles
as well as any director.
Besides the movies mentioned by others, I love "To
Each His Own," "Take A Letter Darling," "Hands
Across the Table" and "No Man of Her Own" (queer
Leisen adapting queer Woolrich -- noir like no other).
I always thought that Leisen's ability to photograph
characters in interiors was only matched by Hitchcock
and Mankiewicz.
Brian
23878
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:42am
Subject: Re: Re: Leisen (was John M. Stahl)
--- Brian Charles Dauth
wrote:
>
> For me "Midnight" is the perfect screwball comedy.
More sophisticated than merely screwball, IMO. The
opening is unforgettable -- Claudett Colbert in
sparkling evening gown arrives in Paris without a sou
having lost all hermoney gambling in Monte Carlo. She
so chic no one can believe she's anything but high
society and therefore gets to join in in record time.
John Barrymore, Mary Astor, Francis Lederer and Don
Ameche round out the cast. Pure style, with a
marvelous ending where each principle is given a
curtain line.
> I think Leisen directed Sturges and Wilder better
> than
> they directed themselves (especially Sturges).
Well Wilder wouldn't agree. Leisen would let the
actors change lines if they didn't like them and that
drove Wilder straight up the wall.He often said he
became a director in order to protect his scripts.
For
> me
> he was a master of pace. He was also able to get
> performances from women and bend gender roles
> as well as any director.
>
I agree. "Midnight" is practically a waltz from start
to finish.
> Besides the movies mentioned by others, I love "To
> Each His Own," "Take A Letter Darling," "Hands
> Across the Table" and "No Man of Her Own" (queer
> Leisen adapting queer Woolrich -- noir like no
> other).
>
And remade several times. The original novel was
called "I Married a Dead Man."
> I always thought that Leisen's ability to photograph
> characters in interiors was only matched by
> Hitchcock
> and Mankiewicz.
>
True.
And speaking of "Swing High Swing Low" it's a major
precursor of"New York New York" what with MacMurray
and Lombard comign together and breaking apart because
of his ego problems. The finale with him playing the
trumpet as she leans in to his arms,cradled in an
embrace, is so beautiful I can't reallydescribe it.
it's a greatexample of 30's er bittersweet romance.
__________________________________
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23879
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:17am
Subject: Re: Leisen (Was: John M. Stahl)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
>
>
> I have never seen it on video, so that absolves me, I guess. JPC
It's nice of Dan to take the rap, but methinks JP doth protest too
much.
23880
From: Noel Vera
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:45am
Subject: shooting straight into the sun
For anyone interested, I remember Kurosawa writing about his
collaboration with Miyagawa on Rashomon, that they were the first to
shoot straight into the sun. Always doubted it but my first actual
proof against it was when I saw Portrait of Jennie recently, the
scene with Joseph Cotten meeting Jennifer Jones at the Central Park
skating rink and there it is--straight shot into the sun. Seeing as
this is 1948, it's probably resonable to assume Kurosawa missed this
movie.
Can anyone think of an earlier example?
23881
From:
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:25am
Subject: Re: Leisen (was John M. Stahl)
A common theme in Leisen movies: people discovering or developing new
identities.
In "Midnight", both Claudette Colbert and Don Ameche take on new personas in
Parisian Society.
In "Golden Earrings", Ray Milland goes from being an Englishman to a pretend
Gypsy. The film is a powerful metaphor for a person undergoing a homosexual
awakening.
In "No Man of Her Own", the heroine takes on a new life as the alleged
fiancee of a dead man.
In "To Each His Own", unwed mother Olivia De Haviland gets involved in a life
time of pretending.
And in "The Mating Season", Thelma Ritter goes undercover as a maid.
I liked all of these films very much. Also recommended: "The Eagle and the
Hawk", an early anti-war film reputedly largely directed by Leisen; "Artists and
Models Abroad", and "The Lady is Willing", one of Marlene Dietrich's least
known vehicles (but quite enjoyable for all that).
Mike Grost
23882
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:26am
Subject: Re: shooting straight into the sun
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Noel Vera"
wrote:
>
> Can anyone think of an earlier example?
There are intentional halations in the rushes of the Four Men on a
Raft episode of It's All True (1942), but of course no one but Welles
saw them until the footage was resurrected and edited decades later.
I say "intentional" because it's clear from the shots that George
Fanto, the d.p., knew what he was doing, and I subsequently asked him
about it.
23883
From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 0:00pm
Subject: Re: Leisen (was John M. Stahl)
Edinburgh Film Festival was planning a Leisen retrospective for this
summer but I believe it may have been postponed.
Anyone who gets a chance to see Leisen's Sturges films is well
advised to go. EASY LIVING has a prolonged slapstick number in an
automat that beats any of the visual gaggery in Sturges' own films,
while REMEMBER THE NIGHT strikingly mixes urban sophisticated comedy
with heartwarming sentiment in a rustic locale.
Have also recently seen, and loved, HANDS ACROSS THE TABLE (comedy +
sentiment again) and rather enjoyed the weirdfest that is NO TIME FOR
LOVE (social satire, romcom, Freudian dream sequence, gay friend,
engineering drama).
23884
From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 0:06pm
Subject: Re: Leisen and Borzage etc (Was: Leiswen)
> I think everyone has been drinking too much or something. You
say
> Leisen and I say Borzage, you say Lubitsch and I say Preminger,
> Leisen, Borzage, Lubitsch, Preminger... let's call the whole thing
> off. JPC
In the next little while I shall be sitting down to enjoy A ROYAL
SCANDAL. Preminger does Lubitsch - should I be worried? Should I ahve
a stiff drink to hand?
DESIRE is great, anyhow, even if it's Borzage doing lubitsch, not
Leisen being his own sweet self.
Incidentally, can I have some Borzage recommendations - have loved
7TH HEAVEN and MOONRISE, a bit underwhelmed by everything I've seen
in between. And can we have a ruling on how to pronounce his damn
name, and does anyone know if he was politically blacklisted or
simply struck off the A list due to drinking problems?
23885
From: cairnsdavid1967
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 0:22pm
Subject: Re: Leisen (was John M. Stahl)
> A common theme in Leisen movies: people discovering or developing
new
> identities.
Continuing the theme: Barbra Stanwyck presented as MacMurray's
girlfriend and not as a woman he's prosecuting for theft in REMEMBER
THE NIGHT. Somebody in NO TIME FOR LOVE but I don't want to spoil it.
In THE GIRL MOST LIKELY a Howard Hughesian millionaire playboy is
really not (I may be wrong, haven't watched the whole film, but that
seemed to be where it was headed). EASY LIVING does the same in
reverse with Ray Milland. MURDER AT THE VANITIES has a MATING SEASON
type imposture. Boyer kind of misrepresents himself in HOLD BACK THE
DAWN.
This does look like more than just the results of a director who
makes a lot of light comedy - the same theme crops up in his noir and
melodrama work.
23886
From:
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:31am
Subject: Preminger, Borzage (was: Leisen and Borzage etc)
In a message dated 05-03-10 07:09:23 EST, you write:
<< In the next little while I shall be sitting down to enjoy A ROYAL
SCANDAL. Preminger does Lubitsch - should I be worried? Should I ahve
a stiff drink to hand?>>
"A Royal Scandal" does not have much of a reputation. But I loved it when it
was shown on TV unexpectedly a few months ago. Also "The Court Martial of
Billy Mitchell". Maybe these are not "minor Premingers" as often depicted - more
like very well crafted films.
<
7TH HEAVEN and MOONRISE, a bit underwhelmed by everything I've seen
in between. And can we have a ruling on how to pronounce his name >>
Bore ZAY gee (with a hard G, as in guy or give). I think!
There was a long thread early in a_film_by when everyone chimed in with
Borzage recommendations. My favorites:
A Farewell to Arms
A Man's Castle
Stranded
Mike Grost
23887
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:48pm
Subject: Borzage (Was: Leisen and Borzage etc (Was: Leiswen))
> Incidentally, can I have some Borzage recommendations - have loved
> 7TH HEAVEN and MOONRISE, a bit underwhelmed by everything I've seen
> in between.
What are the underwhelming in-between films?
For me, HISTORY IS MADE AT NIGHT is the extra-special one, though some
commentators here disagree. After that, I'd say: THE MORTAL STORM; LITTLE
MAN, WHAT NOW?; A FAREWELL TO ARMS; THE RIVER; and LUCKY STAR. - Dan
23888
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:25pm
Subject: NYC: Chelsea Classics
New Yorkers may want to keep an eye on this series of old American films
playing on Thursday nights at the Chelsea Clearview cinema on 23rd and
8th:
http://www.clearviewcinemas.com/thursday_at_chelsea.shtml
Tonight at 7, for instance, they're showing SEVEN BRIDES FOR SEVEN
BROTHERS. And they showed Sidney's VIVA LAS VEGAS a few weeks ago. Don't
know for sure that they're showing 35mm prints. And it looks as if the
films are preceded by some sort of campy live presentation.
The one filmgoing advantage that LA used to have over NYC (and probably
still does) is that it's so much easier to see old Hollywood films there.
I guess the prints live there and are expensive to ship around. - Dan
23889
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:28pm
Subject: Re: Borzage (Was: Leisen and Borzage etc (Was: Leiswen))
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > Incidentally, can I have some Borzage recommendations - have
loved
> > 7TH HEAVEN and MOONRISE, a bit underwhelmed by everything I've
seen
> > in between.
>
> What are the underwhelming in-between films?
>
His first (partially) sound film, "Street Angel," is a Napolitan
variation on "7th Heaven" and perhaps Borzage's greatest achievement
in the Murnau/Fox style of direction. "Liliom" which was
rediscovered and restored in the '90s is stunning.
"Bad Girl" (1932) is absolutely delightful and I wish I could see
it again (I have a long discussion of it in "American Directors"
Vol. 1). "A Man's Castle" is about as good (speaking of recurring
themes, all five films mentioned above are variations on the
Cinderella theme)... I agree with Dan Re: "History is Made at Night".
I have reservations about the weird "Strange Cargo" and the bizarre
tearjerker "I'll Always Love You" which some auteurists adore (Luc
Moullet: "its mawkishness and sentimentality are so excessive as to
annihilate critical judgement and reach pure beauty.") JPC
23890
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:33pm
Subject: Re: Preminger, Borzage (was: Leisen and Borzage etc)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
>
> Bore ZAY gee (with a hard G, as in guy or give). I think!
>
We had a thread some time ago about how to pronounce certain
names. I have always heard Borzage pronounced the way Mike says,
here in the USA. In France they pronounce it in two syllables to
rhyme with "corsage". JPC
23891
From: BklynMagus
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:37pm
Subject: Re: Borzage (Was: Leisen and Borzage etc (Was: Leiswen))
Dan writes:
> For me, HISTORY IS MADE AT NIGHT is the extra-special one
For me as well. Doesn't hurt that it has Jean Arthur, my favorite
actress of the '30's. Her declaration of love as she grips the back
of a chair is awesome. Cameron lifted the plot wholesale for Titanic
and never (as far as I know) got nailed for it.
I also like Strange Cargo, The Shining Hour, Mannequin, Bad Girl
and Liliom.
Brian
23892
From: Fred Camper
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:47pm
Subject: Re: Preminger, Borzage (was: Leisen and Borzage etc)
MG4273@a... wrote:
>
> Bore ZAY gee (with a hard G, as in guy or give). I think!
This is correct. This is how the people who worked with him pronounced it.
His greaest films before "Moonrise" include "Man's Castle," "The Mortal
Storm," and "Smilin' Through."
Fred Camper
23893
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:28pm
Subject: John M. Stahl
Saw ONLY YESTERDAY last night - quite a striking film. I can't believe I
never noticed before that it's almost exactly the same story as LETTER
FROM AN UNKNOWN WOMAN. (With one huge difference...but I'll save it for
the end, because it's a spoiler.)
Despite the wonderful Margaret Sullavan, I continue to believe that Stahl
is not a great director of actors, that he often leaves them alone to do
actorish things. With some directors that's an insurmountable problem -
but there's something about Stahl's style that shifts the perspective to
the back of the room, so that the actors don't control the drama quite as
much.
The element of Stahl's style that I note most often is this tendency to
create what I'd call an environmental perspective. In other words, his
camera stands just far enough back, and his blocking of non-central
elements in the frame is just conspicuous enough, that the actor who
dominates the story is shown more as part of the environment and less as a
privileged being. Those serene, impassive tracking shots that Stahl loves
are almost always a bit wider than the norm - they are a way to keep part
of the focus on the world that the characters are moving through. This is
a matter of emphasis as well as visuals: the background activity often has
a strong presence, and is sustained across big story events. Sound plays
a big part in this distribution of emphasis, and Stahl seems to pay a lot
of attention to it, usually to smooth out transitions instead of to play
them up.
This description makes it sound as if Stahl is working against the
melodrama instead of working with it. But that's a tricky issue, and I
don't know if I have a handle on it yet. Certainly the films work as
melodrama, have big emotional scenes. Stahl doesn't shy away from the
emotions. But I tend to feel his presence in the way that he pulls back
to a more environmental viewpoint, and not in the way that the melodrama
convulses the story. Margaret's tearful conversation with her
ten-year-old son at the film's climax is clearly the "money shot," the
scene that the audience is supposed to remember, the one that delivers the
goods. And yet it doesn't feel like the heart of the film from a
directorial point of view. If I feel that Stahl has a limitation, it lies
here: that the "official" film and the director's film seem to pull apart
a little bit, have different high points.
There's another element of Stahl's style that I haven't discussed yet that
mitigates this problem. It's the "audacity" element, which Sarris talked
about, and which would seem to be at odds with the "environmental"
direction. But the audacity has to be figured in. In ONLY YESTERDAY, it
rears its head right in step with the melodrama: the first images of
Margaret in bed are startlingly corpse-like. Other Stahl films play up
the audacity more than ONLY YESTERDAY, but one usually feels this aspect
of the direction to some extent. And it goes some way toward justifying
the idea of Stahl as a melodramatist.
The "audacity" and the "environmental" angle don't seem to go together at
first glance, but if you put them together and permute them a little bit,
you come close to a general idea of what Stahl is doing.
And now the SPOILER about the difference between ONLY YESTERDAY and LETTER
FROM AN UNKNOWN WOMAN:
In the earlier film, the letter stops a suicide in progress, and in the
latter it creates a suicide. A pretty big difference! Ah, Hollywood. -
Dan
23894
From: Brian Dauth
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:42pm
Subject: Re: Leisen (was John M. Stahl)
David wrote:
> Pure style, with a marvelous ending where
each principle is given a curtain line.
And also, no character is punished. To me
it is the equivalent of Renoir's "Everyone
has his reasons." Colbert's send-off of
Lederer is wonderful, and his wry
acknowledgement that he is better off free
than married is part of Leisen's generosity.
The only character who gets a comeuppance is
the judge (Monty Woolley) whjen the doors
close on him revealing the words "The End"
as if the legal/judicial world is shut off
from the humane/real world that Leisen sends
his characters off into.
> Well Wilder wouldn't agree.
Well, Wilder had issues with what he called
"fairies." Just look at "The Front Page."
> He often said he became a director in order
to protect his scripts.
True, but he often protected his words so much
so that he inhibited the flow of his films. He
was different than Huston and Mankiewicz who saw
directing as an extension of the writing process.
Wilder saw the creation process differently.
As for Mike's post about recreation/role-playing
in Leisen's films, I think "Midnight" is a
prime example. Colbert starts out as gold digger,
then tries to be a cabaret singer, then infiltrates
a posh party and begins her charade as a baroness.
There is the wonderful scene at the window of the
hotel when Colbert takes mental stock and reminds
herself that she is Eve Peabody. Leisen always
keeps the audience aware that we are dealing with
an intelligent woman who never gets so caught up in
the role(s) she is playing that she loses sight of
reality. Part of the joy then becomes watching as
Colbert adapts to each new challenge. SPOILER: My
favorite scene is the breakfast sequence where she
must invent a story on the spot when she realizes
that Ameche is going to come to the table dressed as
as a cab driver (which is what he is) and reveal the
whole charade. Barrymore's "Amazing" spoken in
honor of Eve's cleverness/quickness seems to me to
also be Leisen's tribute to Colbert as an actress.
Brian
23895
From: Jerry Johnson
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:09pm
Subject: Rigorous Formalism in Bunuel?
The standard take on Bunuel's visual style is that it's "neutral,"
or that his style is the "absence of style," or that it's primarily
iconographic. Or maybe that's just old-fashioned thinking and I
haven't kept up with the latest scholarship on the subject. That's
why I'm posting this.
I was watching Diary of a Chambermaid on DVD the other night and
realized for the first time that all interiors are shot with a
stationary camera and that all exterior scenes involve tracking
shots. I found it very strange that I'd never noticed this before
and was curious 1) if anyone has written about this specifically,
and 2) if there are other examples of this kind of rigorous visual
formalism in other Bunuel films.
Now I plan to rewatch all of Bunuel's films that are on DVD
(unfortunately, very few are) and try to determine what else I've
been missing.
23896
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:26pm
Subject: Re: Preminger, Borzage (was: Leisen and Borzage etc)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Fred Camper wrote:
> MG4273@a... wrote:
"His greaest films before 'Moonrise' include 'Man's Castle,' 'The
Mortal Storm,' and 'Smilin' Through.'
Let me put in a word for the Llyod Douglas adaptations, THE GREEN
LIGHT and DISPUTED PASSAGE. His religiously themed movies are
apparently harder for people to take, but the same visual dynamic is
at work in these movies as much as in his romantic movies. And his
penultimate movie CHINA DOLL is as great as MOONRISE.
Richard
23897
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:33pm
Subject: Re: Wildr and Wilder (was: Leisen )
--- Brian Dauth wrote:
>
> Well, Wilder had issues with what he called
> "fairies." Just look at "The Front Page."
>
To some degree, but he really didn't like Leisen
personally for very profesional reasons. He felt that
Leisen was entirely too high-handed about changing
things in the script. He was probably wrong (certainly
in the case of "Midnight") but he was well within his
rights to object anyway.
> > He often said he became a director in order
> to protect his scripts.
>
> True, but he often protected his words so much
> so that he inhibited the flow of his films. He
> was different than Huston and Mankiewicz who saw
> directing as an extension of the writing process.
> Wilder saw the creation process differently.
>
Not entirely. "The Apartment," Shirley MacLaine has
noted, began shooting with 36 uninifhsed pages of
script. Wilder and Diamond wrote and re-wrote as they
went along. The acotrs didn't know where the film was
going until they got that day's pages. I think this
accounts for a lot of the film's freshness, coupled
with Wilder's uncanny abilityto shift from satirical
comedy to virtual tragedy and back again.
The moment when Lemmon puts on his bowler hat and
looks at himself in MacLaine's pockey mirror is not
only the turning point of the film but a high point in
writing-directing. In one simple action Wilder brings
together Lemmon's triumphant realization of his
self-image AND its downfall in that he discovers the
truth about the woman that he loves.
__________________________________
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23898
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:35pm
Subject: Re: Rigorous Formalism in Bunuel?
Noel Burch wrote an article about the formal rigor of
Bunuel's "Diary of a Cahmbermaid" that was published
in the third (and, alas final) issue of "Moviegoer."
--- Jerry Johnson wrote:
>
> I was watching Diary of a Chambermaid on DVD the
> other night and
> realized for the first time that all interiors are
> shot with a
> stationary camera and that all exterior scenes
> involve tracking
> shots. I found it very strange that I'd never
> noticed this before
> and was curious 1) if anyone has written about this
> specifically,
> and 2) if there are other examples of this kind of
> rigorous visual
> formalism in other Bunuel films.
>
__________________________________
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http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
23899
From: BklynMagus
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:48pm
Subject: Re: John M. Stahl
Dan writes:
> Despite the wonderful Margaret Sullavan, I continue to
believe that Stahl is not a great director of actors, that he
often leaves them alone to do actorish things.
Funny, I felt the exact opposite. For me the distance of his
camera imposed restraint -- that what would have been
actorish for other directors was just part of the scene for
Stahl -- as if the sense of style and design that went into
the characters homes and clothes also applied to how they
presented themselves to the world -- existence as conscious
artifice.
> With some directors that's an insurmountable problem - but
there's something about Stahl's style that shifts the perspective to
the back of the room, so that the actors don't control the drama
quite as much.
Exactly -- as if the actors were as much acted upon as acting.
I loved the party sequence at the beginning which most directors
would have probably shortened and brought into sharp focus.
Minutes were spent with characters who would never appear
again, but whose previous presence was crucial to the resolution
of the film (where he plays a nifty/klutzy elision with time).
It is as if Stahl will allow melodrama to arise out of the circumstances
according to the temperant of the characters: some committ suicide,
some will go on. Melodrama not so much as an inevitablity as a
choice that people make when facing certain situations.
> In other words, his camera stands just far enough back, and his
blocking of non-central elements in the frame is just conspicuous
enough, that the actor who dominates the story is shown more as
part of the environment and less as a privileged being.
Which is where his power lies for me. The son's scene with his
aunt on the stairs is equal in power to the subsequent scene with
his dying mother -- one is played melodramatically and one is
stoic. When his father comes to see him, Stahl extends the scene
allowing it to play out -- a lesser director would have structured it
differently, built up to a dramatic revelation with lush
orchestrations, bringing melodrama (and tears) to the fore. Stahl
captures the rhythm of an actual confrontation rather than a
Hollywood one.
> This description makes it sound as if Stahl is working against the
melodrama instead of working with it.
He is a melodramatist who doesn't indulge the melodrama, so much
as reveal its occurrences in real life. He demonstrates that melodrama
arises through the choices characters make: Gene Tierney is the
instigator of melodrama in "Leave Her to Heaven" rather than its
passive victim.
> Stahl doesn't shy away from the emotions.
But he does not privilege them.
> But I tend to feel his presence in the way that he pulls back
to a more environmental viewpoint, and not in the way that the
melodrama convulses the story.
Exactly. The melodrama and its emotions are happening on the
screen and not in audience members, and only when the
characters bring it about. Melodrama is not an authorial conceit,
but a character choice.
> Margaret's tearful conversation with her ten-year-old son at the
film's climax is clearly the "money shot," the scene that the
audience is supposed to remember, the one that delivers the
goods.
I disagree. There are no money shots in Stahl. That would go
against his equanimity and the freedom he gives to his characters.
A long shot is just as powerful as a close-up in Stahl's world.
> If I feel that Stahl has a limitation, it lies here: that the "official"
film and the director's film seem to pull apart a little bit, have
different high points.
I do not see this as a limitation, but rather a strength. He smooths
out the high points thereby presenting the audience with a more
complex and nuanced film (think Antonioni's L'Eclisse).
> The "audacity" and the "environmental" angle don't seem to go
together at first glance, but if you put them together and permute
them a little bit, you come close to a general idea of what Stahl is
But they do go together. Audacious things happen in life. People
can then be melodramatic about them or not.
Spoiler:
> In the earlier film, the letter stops a suicide in progress, and in the
latter it creates a suicide. A pretty big difference! Ah, Hollywood.
More Stahl. He doesn't go for the easy out of a suicide. He is not a
fatalist/cheap melodramatist.
Brian
23900
From: Patrick Ciccone
Date: Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:40pm
Subject: Re: John M. Stahl
>
> > Margaret's tearful conversation with her ten-year-old son at the
> film's climax is clearly the "money shot," the scene that the
> audience is supposed to remember, the one that delivers the
> goods.
>
> I disagree. There are no money shots in Stahl. That would go
> against his equanimity and the freedom he gives to his characters.
> A long shot is just as powerful as a close-up in Stahl's world.
I wouldn't can it a "money shot," but isn't one of the fulcrums of the
film the massive close-up of Margaret after she spots Emerson at the
New Year's party at the St. Regis. The isolation of her face contrasts
rather starkly to the larger, more fluid spaces of the rest of the film.
PWC
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