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Posts From the Internet Film Discussion Group, a_film_by
This group is dedicated to discussing film as art
from an auteurist perspective. The index to these files of posts can be found at http://www.fredcamper.com/afilmby/ The purpose of these files is to make our posts more accessible, for downloading and reading and to search engines.
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emailing them from that Web site.
24801
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:35am
Subject: Re: Aldrich [was 25 directors] hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
>
Re: Duras/Aldrich - very similar temperaments. I'd have trouble
choosing between Femme du Gange and The Last Sunset.
24802
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:37am
Subject: Re: Aldrich [was 25 directors] hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
> > It's a great script, but does that in any way diminish
Aldrich's
> contribution? There is not one shot in the entire film that is not
> as inventive and personal as anything in Welles. I can't think of
> many films I could say the same thing of(as a matter of fact, I
> can't think of one). JPC
I wholeheartedly agree - I like it BETTER than Kane. But Greg Ford
tells me that a lot of those shots are in the script, and Aldrich
filmed them as written...by Bezzerides. I need to get a script to see.
24803
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:38am
Subject: Re: Aldrich [was 25 directors] hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, BklynMagus wrote:
> George wrote:
>
> > but the best work -- almost any of the '50s
> films, Flight of the Phoenix, the Bette Davis
> diptych, The Dirty Dozen, Lylah Clare and,
> most of all, Ulzana's Raid are great, great films.
> Period.
>
> At various times I have claimed that "Ulzana's Raid"
> was my favorite Western -- so nice of Walter Hill to
> remake it as "Geronimo" and never mention it.
>
> I also have to praise "Hustle" which I think is great
> as well.
There's one line I have quoted twenty times from Hustle: "Where do
you think you are, kid? This is Guatemala with color tv!"
24804
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:40am
Subject: Re: Aldrich [was 25 directors] hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Blake Lucas"
wrote:
> >
> An easy statement to support, and to those who don't agree I
suggest
> that Mike Hammer/Ralph Meeker might just grin and beat you up.
>
> As for Aldrich, seeing his name absent from so many lists might
cause
> him to plaintively caress the words "Remember me..."
Did you go to the DGA tribute, Blake? Bezzerides stood up in the
audience and recited the whole sonnet.
24805
From: "Aaron Graham"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:08am
Subject: Re: Aldrich [was 25 directors] machinegunmc...
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> I wholeheartedly agree - I like it BETTER than Kane. But Greg Ford
> tells me that a lot of those shots are in the script, and Aldrich
> filmed them as written...by Bezzerides. I need to get a script to
see.
Maybe this'll have some more answers concerning Bezzerides' script -
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0445081/
Anyone know when/where this is coming out? There was a trailer for it
on Criterion's recent release of Dassin's "Thieves Highway".
for "Kiss Me Deadly".
-Aaron
24806
From: "Henrik Sylow"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:47am
Subject: Re: directors (was: Top 25 directors) henrik_sylow
I would dare to say, that making lists is counterproductive towards
the discussion of directors as auteurs, as it diminishes them to one
or two qualities, often based on the creators taste than on any
directorial quality, by which they then are ranked.
Lets take Bresson, Bergman and Cassavates. Three by any standard great
directors, each with their own unique approach to acting, how to frame
the human face and to mise-en-scene.
On what qualities does one rank them? Is the framing of Ullmann's face
in "Cries and Whispers" better than Rowlands in "A Woman Under the
Influence" better than Nortier in "Mouchette"? Is "Pickpocket" better
directed than "The Seventh Seal" than "Faces"? Is Bergman's use of
inserts in "Monica" superior to Bressons juxtapositions of the donkey
in "Au Hazard, Balthazar"?
Where lists "tell" us that Dreyer is a better director than Ozu, they
never tell us why. And therefor lists are pointless and
counterproductive. They omit the qualities of a director, his skill,
his techniques, his struggles to get a film made, his leitmotifs, his
approach to a single (or more) theme(s) and so forth.
So why do them?
Why not discuss the directorial qualities instead? Do we approach
cinema and directors so differently, that the only thing we can agree
upon is that we differ in our views on what "Shinging" can be
interpretated as?
Henrik
24807
From: "Damien Bona"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:48am
Subject: My 25 damienbona
These are the 25 directors who speak to me the most elooquently:
1. John Ford
2. Jean Renoir
3. Leo McCarey
4. Blake Edwards
5. Douglas Sirk
6. Vincente Minnelli
7. Yasujiro Ozu
8. Roberto Rossellini
9. Frank Tashlin
10. Frank Borzage
11. Max Ophuls
12. Abbas Kiarostami
13. Jean-Luc Godard
14. Andre de Toth
15. Rainer Werner Fassbinder
16. Eric Rohmer
17. Orson Welles
18. Nicholas Ray
19. Agnes Varda
20. Otto Preminger
21. Robert Aldrich
22. Gillian Anderson
23. John M. Stahl
24. Joseph Losey
25. William Dieterle
Most likely candidates to be added to this list when they've made a
few more films: Lukas Moodysson, Bill Condon, Terence Davies,
Richard Linklater, Shunji Iwai, Laurent Cantet, Paul Weitz
24808
From: "Andy Rector"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:09am
Subject: Buy any standard kinoslang
>>Lets take Bresson, Bergman and Cassavates. Three by any standard
>great
>directors
Gehr
S.Alvarez
Ivens
S.Makhmalbaf
L.Alonso
Garrel
Lubitsch
Jerry Lewis
Burnett
Straub-Huillet
Sembene
Johannes __
Renoir
Jancso
S.Clarke
Biette*
Verdoux(aka Varnay)
Ghatak
Lang
D'Arast
Lumiere
Iosseliani
George'Doc'Bull
Barnet
L'Herbier*
Dovzhenko
"Jeannot"
A quotation exists, like a tree. One can make use of it like the
common good.
*never seen any of the work
24809
From: "Saul"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 0:02pm
Subject: searching for a review.... asitdid
Online Now Send IM
Does anyone here know in what issue of The Guardian Derek Malcolm's
review of "Hitler - A Film From Germany" was printed? Does anyone
have, or know where I could get, a copy of this review?
Any help would be much appreciated - you can contact me offline.
-- Saul
24810
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:20pm
Subject: Re: Aldrich [was 25 directors] jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
> wrote:
> > > It's a great script, but does that in any way diminish
> Aldrich's
> > contribution? There is not one shot in the entire film that is
not
> > as inventive and personal as anything in Welles. I can't think
of
> > many films I could say the same thing of(as a matter of fact, I
> > can't think of one). JPC
>
> I wholeheartedly agree - I like it BETTER than Kane. But Greg Ford
> tells me that a lot of those shots are in the script, and Aldrich
> filmed them as written...by Bezzerides. I need to get a script to
see.
I admire Bezz., especially for "KISS ME DEADLY", but there is an
AWFUL lot of visual stuff in the film that couldn't possibly be
written into a screenplay. Imagine Victor Saville directing the same
script... JPC
24811
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:40pm
Subject: The Return of Irving Pichel hotlove666
Sounds like "Night" may be remaking Mr. Peabody and the Mermaid:
After four movies with the Mouse House, M. Night Shyamalan has moved
to Warner Bros. Pictures for his next pic, "Lady in the Water." Story
concerns a building super who finds a sea nymph in his apartment
building's pool.
24812
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:58pm
Subject: Re: Violence in Kitano (was: Contemporary action/violence) sallitt1
> There is also a remarkably Kitano-esque work that hails from Korea --
> SONG Hae-sung's "Failan" (with CHOI Min-sik and Cecilia Cheung).
I sort of liked this film, but it seemed more stylistically conventional
than Kitano's work. What similarities did you note? - Dan
24813
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:15pm
Subject: Re: The Return of Irving Pichel cellar47
Calling Curtis Harrington!
--- hotlove666 wrote:
>
> Sounds like "Night" may be remaking Mr. Peabody and
> the Mermaid:
>
> After four movies with the Mouse House, M. Night
> Shyamalan has moved
> to Warner Bros. Pictures for his next pic, "Lady in
> the Water." Story
> concerns a building super who finds a sea nymph in
> his apartment
> building's pool.
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
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Make Yahoo! your home page
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24814
From: "Blake Lucas"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:30pm
Subject: Re: Aldrich [was 25 directors] blakelucaslu...
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Blake Lucas"
> wrote:
>
>
> > As for Aldrich, seeing his name absent from so many lists might
> cause
> > him to plaintively caress the words "Remember me..."
>
> Did you go to the DGA tribute, Blake? Bezzerides stood up in the
> audience and recited the whole sonnet.
Well, I wish I had been there, obviously. And if anyone knows the
whole sonnet by heart or could put it up in a post, please do,
because there are always parts I remember, but it's the kind of
thing one sometimes wants to wake up to in the morning.
"The darkness and corruption..."
As realized, Kiss Me Deadly is to 1950s noir as Out of the Past is
to 1940s noir. Even Touch of Evil, much as I love it, seems just a
little shallow next to Kiss Me Deadly. I'd sympathize with anyone
who put Aldrich on a list of 25 favorite directors, but I don't know
how anyone could leave Kiss Me off a list of 25 best American films
in all honesty. It is ever more resonant, profound, beautiful. All
of this and yet it's as bracingly unsentimental as someone taking
your favorite irreplaceable record and snapping it in two with a
self-satisfied smirk.
Just to throw my two cents in the Bezzerides/Aldrich question out
there because I do think Bezzerides is a wonderful writer--no matter
what a screenwriter puts in a script in the way of shots, cuts or
whatever, and even if a director follows these as scripted (I
somehow doubt this was true for the whole film in this case), no one
but the director can really create the ambiance and atmosphere, the
tone and texture of the film, and ultimately these ARE the film.
And they are truly exceptional in this instance.
24815
From: "Richard Modiano"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:44pm
Subject: Re: Aldrich [was 25 directors] tharpa2002
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Blake Lucas"
wrote:
"Just to throw my two cents in the Bezzerides/Aldrich question out
there because I do think Bezzerides is a wonderful writer--no matter
what a screenwriter puts in a script in the way of shots, cuts or
whatever, and even if a director follows these as scripted (I
somehow doubt this was true for the whole film in this case), no one
but the director can really create the ambiance and atmosphere, the
tone and texture of the film, and ultimately these ARE the film.
And they are truly exceptional in this instance [KISS ME DEADLY]."
The question is, to what extent was Aldrich involved in shaping
Bezzerides' screenplay? We have good information on how people like
Hitchcock, Ford, Hawks, Mizoguchi and Ozu worked with their writers,
and the evidence is that the finished scenario was a collaborative
effort bewtween writer and director even if the director didn't write
a single line.
Was Aldrich handed a finished script and told to shoot it as written?
It seems unlikely.
Richard
24816
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:50pm
Subject: Re: Re: Argento/Tourneur (Was: Contemporary action/violence) sallitt1
> Making her a young girl is obviously meant to evoke protecvtive
> emotions in us. In Argento I think it's always meant to evoke
> sadistic desires, but I don't think Lewton and Tourneur's minds
> worked quite that way. Lewton only tortures his characters in order
> to torture the audience - but in a nice way!
Who one identifies with in such a scene may be more fluid than we tend to
think. A viewer who is excited by a torture scene may wish to imagine the
scene from the point of view of the torturer, the tortured, or both
alternately. The very fact that the young girl evokes protective emotions
may be what makes her worth sending to a bloody death.
I don't condemn any of this, but for me the discomfort inflicted in THE
LEOPARD MAN isn't "in a nice way." I agree, though, that Lewton doesn't
strike me as fixated on this sort of thing. It was apparently within his
repertoire of interests, and he needed to appeal to audiences somehow. -
Dan
24817
From: "Robert Keser"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:12pm
Subject: Re: The Return of Irving Pichel rfkeser
"hotlove666" wrote:
"Sounds like "Night" may be remaking Mr. Peabody and the Mermaid:
..."Lady in the Water." ...Story concerns a building super who finds
a sea nymph in his apartment building's pool."
This sounds more like "Splash" + angst (= "Splangst"?).
Actually, Pichel's "Miracle of the Bells" would seem to be a
guaranteed natural for Shyam' to remake, or even better "Happy
Land", Pichel's morose variation on "Our Town", complete with dead
characters reappearing to comment to the living.
--Robert Keser
24818
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:29pm
Subject: Douglas, Walters (Was: Top 25 directors) sallitt1
> Gordon Douglas (Geez, for "Saps at Sea")
>
> and don't forget "Them!","Walk a Crooked Mile", "Rio
> Conchos", "The Detective". In our book Tavernier praised "I Was a
> Communist for the FBI", which I haven't seen.
Douglas is one of those troublesome cases: often pedestrian, sometimes
amazing. My favorites are probably YOUNG AT HEART, KISS TOMORROW GOODBYE,
TONY ROME, and SYLVIA. I just saw THE CHARGE AT FEATHER RIVER the other
day for the first time: it starts out really lightweight and a little
irksome, and somehow develops into a really exciting action film by the
last 30 minutes.
If I recall correctly, Blake makes a case for FORT DOBBS, which I've never
seen.
Directors like this are a real challenge to the auteur theory. Is their
variability just a question of them losing interest in some projects?
Or is there some synergy, or lack of it, between subject and directorial
attitude?
>> Charles Walters (who remembers "Ask Any Girl"?) Sure do!
Me too. And TWO LOVES. And PLEASE DON'T EAT THE DAISIES. And THE TENDER
TRAP. - Dan
24819
From: Joseph Kaufman
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:44pm
Subject: Re: The Return of Irving Pichel joka13us
David wrote:
>Calling Curtis Harrington!
On a serious note, Curtis had what was described as a minor stroke.
He was in hospital for a month, mostly for physical therapy. Now
he's back home. He looks healthy and is his feisty self, has some
trouble walking (needs a cane) but is improving daily.
--
- Joe Kaufman
24820
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:57pm
Subject: Re: Douglas, Walters (Was: Top 25 directors) cellar47
--- Dan Sallitt wrote:
>
> Directors like this are a real challenge to the
> auteur theory. Is their
> variability just a question of them losing interest
> in some projects?
> Or is there some synergy, or lack of it, between
> subject and directorial
> attitude?
>
Directors like this aren't auteurs. They're studio
craftsmen whose work varies from project to project.
> >> Charles Walters (who remembers "Ask Any Girl"?)
> Sure do!
>
> Me too. And TWO LOVES. And PLEASE DON'T EAT THE
> DAISIES. And THE TENDER
> TRAP.
I think it's safe to say that Charles Walters is a
major director. The breadth, scope and subtlety of his
achievements have been much discussed here at "A Film
By," and Jacques Rivette is crazy about him too.
Just thinking about him last week vis-a-vis "The
Tender Trap" -- a huge hit in its day. It'sa film
version of a very successful Broadway hit that Walters
doesn't "open up" until the end when the entire cast
sings the title tune.
The new Ducastel et Martineau film, "Crustacés et
coquillages," is most remindful of Walters as it's a
light comedy with a big musical number at the very
end, quite like "Spreadin' the Jam."
__________________________________
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24821
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:53pm
Subject: Re: Re: Aldrich [was 25 directors] sallitt1
> I'd sympathize with anyone
> who put Aldrich on a list of 25 favorite directors, but I don't know
> how anyone could leave Kiss Me off a list of 25 best American films
> in all honesty. It is ever more resonant, profound, beautiful. All
> of this and yet it's as bracingly unsentimental as someone taking
> your favorite irreplaceable record and snapping it in two with a
> self-satisfied smirk.
That certainly wouldn't be on my list of 25 favorite life experiences!
I like some Aldrich films very much (especially ULZANA'S RAID), but I am
surprised that so many would put him on a top-25 list, not that so many
would leave him off. I find him very uneven and sometimes unappealing. -
Dan
24822
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:10pm
Subject: Re: Aldrich [was 25 directors] jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > I'd sympathize with anyone
>
> That certainly wouldn't be on my list of 25 favorite life
experiences!
>
> I like some Aldrich films very much (especially ULZANA'S RAID),
but I am
> surprised that so many would put him on a top-25 list, not that so
many
> would leave him off. I find him very uneven and sometimes
unappealing. -
> Dan
Well, if you will agree that Aldrich made one absolute
masterpiece (KISS ME DEADLY) and one of the best westerns ever
(ULZANA'S RAID)wouldn't that be enough to put him way up there? How
many great directors can you mention who didn't make
some "unappealing" films? What long film career is not to some
extent "uneven"?
My ultimate test of greatness is how many times I can watch a
movie and still be enthralled as though it were the first time
(sometimes more!). I think I have watched "Kiss Me Deadly" more
often than any other film, and it's still as fresh as the night I
first saw it more than fifty years ago in Paris, as "En quatrieme
vitesse." JPC
24823
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:32pm
Subject: Re: Douglas, Walters (Was: Top 25 directors) sallitt1
>> Directors like this are a real challenge to the
>> auteur theory. Is their
>> variability just a question of them losing interest
>> in some projects?
>> Or is there some synergy, or lack of it, between
>> subject and directorial
>> attitude?
>>
> Directors like this aren't auteurs. They're studio
> craftsmen whose work varies from project to project.
But their good work is better than a studio craftsman can do.
I guess tastes may vary on this point, but I don't feel as if "the system"
ever reaches this level of quality. - Dan
24824
From: "peckinpah20012000"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:36pm
Subject: Re: Aldrich [was 25 directors] peckinpah200...
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Modiano"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Blake Lucas"
> <>
> Was Aldrich handed a finished script and told to shoot it as
written?
> It seems unlikely.
>
> Richard
We have to remember that KISS ME DEADLY was a Parklane Production,
a company formed after Aldrich became discontented by the problems
affecting VERA CRUZ and Burt Lancaster in particular. It is highly
probable that Aldrich as auteur did contribute much of the visual
sensibility appearing in KISS ME DEADLY. But it appears that he and
Bezzerides were often like-minded. The first draft screenplay of
GREATEST MOTHER is much better than the second version written by
somebody else. Of course, THE ANGRY HILLS was written in a hurry
which does not benefit anybody, especially when the leading star
expressed contempt towards the entire film and often showed it in
his bored performances with Elisabeth Mueller.
Tony Williams
24825
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:39pm
Subject: Re: Re: Aldrich [was 25 directors] sallitt1
> Well, if you will agree that Aldrich made one absolute
> masterpiece (KISS ME DEADLY) and one of the best westerns ever
> (ULZANA'S RAID)wouldn't that be enough to put him way up there? How
> many great directors can you mention who didn't make
> some "unappealing" films? What long film career is not to some
> extent "uneven"?
I'm happy with every good film that I get, but I certainly think it's
possible for a good director to have such troubling qualities that one
can't praise him or her without qualification. If it was just a matter of
him "laying down" a la Gordon Douglas, I'd be less divided. But sometimes
his sensibility actively bothers me. - Dan
24826
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:46pm
Subject: Re: Aldrich [was 25 directors] hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Modiano"
wrote:
>
>
> Was Aldrich handed a finished script and told to shoot it as written?
> It seems unlikely.
>
> Richard
As told to me by Bezzerides, he worked alone starting from the book.
24827
From: BklynMagus
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:37pm
Subject: Re: Aldrich (was 25 Directors) cinebklyn
Dan writes:
> But sometimes his sensibility actively bothers me.
I think what I love as much as his style is his sensibility.
So many of the protagonists/heroes end up dying in
his films -- there are only partial victories. His is a bleak,
complex view, but too me also a very realistic one. For
me Twilight's Last Gleaming should be required viewing for
all military hawks (especially those who never have or
will serve).
For me it would be hard to leave Aldrich off a list of the
top 10 directors, nevermind 25.
Brian
24828
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:48pm
Subject: Remember jpcoursodon
I can't remember who asked for the full Rossetti poem earlier. So
here it is. I had memorized it at school maybe a year before I first
saw KISS ME DEADLY so it was a thrill to find it as the Ariadne's
thread in this wonderful movie. I checked the text because I had a
few words wrong the way we often do (e.g., David's riding students :)
Remember me when I am gone away,
Gone far away into the silent land;
When you can no more hold me by the hand,
Nor I half turn to go yet turning stay.
Remember me when no more day by day
You tell me of the future that you planned:
Only remember me; you understand
It will be late to counsel then or pray.
Yet if you should forget me for a while
And afterwards remember, do not grieve:
For if the darkness and corruption leave
A vestige of the thoughts that once I had,
Better by far you should forget and smile
Than that you should remember and be sad.
Of course the key to the swallowed key was in lines 11 and 12.
24829
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:55pm
Subject: Re: Remember cellar47
Wasn't Cloris Leachman wonderful?
Gaby Rodgers is still around, BTW. Don Bachardy just
did a portrait of her in acrylic.
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> I can't remember who asked for the full Rossetti
> poem earlier. So
> here it is. I had memorized it at school maybe a
> year before I first
> saw KISS ME DEADLY so it was a thrill to find it as
> the Ariadne's
> thread in this wonderful movie. I checked the text
> because I had a
> few words wrong the way we often do (e.g., David's
> riding students :)
>
>
> Remember me when I am gone away,
> Gone far away into the silent land;
> When you can no more hold me by the hand,
> Nor I half turn to go yet turning stay.
> Remember me when no more day by day
> You tell me of the future that you planned:
> Only remember me; you understand
> It will be late to counsel then or pray.
> Yet if you should forget me for a while
> And afterwards remember, do not grieve:
> For if the darkness and corruption leave
> A vestige of the thoughts that once I had,
> Better by far you should forget and smile
> Than that you should remember and be sad.
>
>
> Of course the key to the swallowed key was in
> lines 11 and 12.
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
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24830
From: George Robinson
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:07pm
Subject: A usefully useless website bressonozu
Or vice versa.
g
Cinemorgue
http://www.cinemorgue.com/index.html
Answers to the burning questions, "Has _____ (name of actress) ever been
killed in any movies? Which movies? How?" The movie buff who created this
also has a site for actors, at <http://www.geocities.com/cinemorgue2/>.
--
If art reflects life, it does so
with spiral mirrors.
-- Bertolt Brecht
24831
From: "Maxime Renaudin"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:49pm
Subject: Re: John M. Stahl jaloysius56
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> What we really need is a screening of WHEN TOMORROW COMES. - Dan
Browsing through past posts I missed, I can't help stopping by at
this Stahl's pure jewel, which moves me more than all others he
made. "When Tomorrow comes" offers the perfect expression of the
idea of renunciation that is at work in most of his movies. A steel
gaze seizes the actors in the urgency of a few moments stolen from
the everyday life. With an economy of gestures and movements that
lets welling up the anxiety and the disillusion of a game that fools
none. Stahl refuses almost constantly any style effect the lyricism
of which could let explode the passion. Except in a few rare
moments, as when the camera languorously accompanies Dunne from the
spiral staircase to the piano where Boyer tries to play over the
storm. The unreality of a shot that reconciles the moment and the
eternity. In the last thirty minutes, each sequence seems to bear
the very end of a never starting story. I believe I already claimed
here my love for the farewell dinner final sequence. When the waiter
comes to call back Boyer to the world. The irruption of his tragic
hand, breaking into the purity of the frontal space, is one the most
sublime cinema gesture I know.
24832
From: "Maxime Renaudin"
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:55pm
Subject: Itinéraire d'un ciné-fils, Daney DVD jaloysius56
Just wanted to let anyone interested know that they have just
released here a DVD of this '92 film interview of Serge Daney by
Régis Debray.
24833
From: "Blake Lucas"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 0:00am
Subject: Re: Douglas, Walters (Was: Top 25 directors) blakelucaslu...
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
>
>
> Douglas is one of those troublesome cases: often pedestrian,
sometimes
> amazing. My favorites are probably YOUNG AT HEART, KISS TOMORROW
GOODBYE,
> TONY ROME, and SYLVIA. I just saw THE CHARGE AT FEATHER RIVER the
other
> day for the first time: it starts out really lightweight and a
little
> irksome, and somehow develops into a really exciting action film
by the
> last 30 minutes.
>
> If I recall correctly, Blake makes a case for FORT DOBBS, which
I've never
> seen.
No, it wasn't FORT DOBBS, which is OK (though YELLOWSTONE KELLY is
better). It was RIO CONCHOS--I believe JPC cited this one here
recently. That's his best Western--it's absolutely brilliant. My
favorite three are definitely YOUNG AT HEART, SYLVIA, RIO CONCHOS,
in that order. A little consensus there, though he has a lot of
films to consider and I doubt any of us has seen them all.
> Directors like this are a real challenge to the auteur theory. Is
their
> variability just a question of them losing interest in some
projects?
> Or is there some synergy, or lack of it, between subject and
directorial
> attitude?
>
Don't you think it's a combination of both those things, Dan? And
it certainly applies to a lot of people. In the case of Gordon
Douglas, though, you may recall a conversation in which we agreed at
the time that his visual style was the most consistent thing about
him, that dramatic compositional depth he is able to build around
the characters even in very simple scenes. That this style, however
we describe it, was infinitely more consistent than any themes,
ideas, obsessions, vision of the world such as normally attributed
to directors people take to heart. And yet, there has to be a place
for a guy like this, because at times he is just masterly.
> >> Charles Walters (who remembers "Ask Any Girl"?) Sure do!
>
> Me too. And TWO LOVES. And PLEASE DON'T EAT THE DAISIES. And
THE TENDER
> TRAP. - Dan
I happened to see both TWO LOVES and THE TENDER TRAP recently and
found both revealing of Walters' style and sensibility. I
especially liked THE TENDER TRAP--seen theatrically. I walked
feeling I could say something profound about both Walters and the
film but it's gone out of my head now. But I do remember as he has
come up lately, other have suggested exploring his non-musicals
as a way of understanding him, in addition to his style with the
musicals.
Blake
24834
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 0:00am
Subject: Re: Remember jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> Wasn't Cloris Leachman wonderful?
>
> Gaby Rodgers is still around, BTW. Don Bachardy just
> did a portrait of her in acrylic.
>
ALL the women were wonderful. Completely original, idiosyncratic
style of acting (especially Maxine Cooper). Actually all the
performances, male or female, are great. Who can forget suave-voiced
Wesley Addy ("I'm revoking your detective license; also, your gun
permit.If we catch you with one I'll throw you in jail." -- and his
sarcastic "Suuuuuure you would...". And Albert Dekker and his non-
stop mythological references; and Paul Stewart; and all the small
parts (Elam, Helton, and who was the wonderful old Italian who
carries the trunk on his back and gives Mike a whispered clue?)
24835
From: "Maxime Renaudin"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 0:06am
Subject: Re: My 25 / Gillian Anderson jaloysius56
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
>> 21. Robert Aldrich
> 22. Gillian Anderson
> 23. John M. Stahl
> 24. Joseph Losey
> 25. William Dieterle
Who is Gillian Anderson?
24836
From: "Blake Lucas"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 0:13am
Subject: Re: Remember blakelucaslu...
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
>
> I can't remember who asked for the full Rossetti poem earlier. So
> here it is. I had memorized it at school maybe a year before I
first
> saw KISS ME DEADLY so it was a thrill to find it as the Ariadne's
> thread in this wonderful movie. I checked the text because I had a
> few words wrong the way we often do (e.g., David's riding
students :)
>
>
> Remember me when I am gone away,
> Gone far away into the silent land;
> When you can no more hold me by the hand,
> Nor I half turn to go yet turning stay.
> Remember me when no more day by day
> You tell me of the future that you planned:
> Only remember me; you understand
> It will be late to counsel then or pray.
> Yet if you should forget me for a while
> And afterwards remember, do not grieve:
> For if the darkness and corruption leave
> A vestige of the thoughts that once I had,
> Better by far you should forget and smile
> Than that you should remember and be sad.
>
>
> Of course the key to the swallowed key was in lines 11 and 12.
That was me that asked for it JPC, so thank you for doing this. It
gave me a chill to read the whole thing just now (several times).
In line 12, I'm pretty sure that in the movie they read it as
"...a vestige of the thoughts that once we had..." instead of "I
had..." If this was deliberate and your translation above is
correct it's interesting within the context of the movie.
24837
From: "Maxime Renaudin"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 0:18am
Subject: Re: directors (was: Top 25 directors) jaloysius56
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Henrik Sylow"
wrote:
>Is the framing of Ullmann's face in "Cries and Whispers" better
>than Rowlands in "A Woman Under the Influence" better than Nortier
>in "Mouchette"?
No. The framing of Nortier in "Mouchette" is better that Ullmann's
face in "Cries and Whispers" better than Rowlands in "A Woman Under
the Influence".
Bresson frames her as an angel.
Bergman as a star.
Cassavetes as an actress.
24838
From: George Robinson
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:10am
Subject: Re: Re: My 25 / Gillian Anderson bressonozu
Far be it from me to speak for Brother Bona, but I think he meant
Gillian Armstrong.
Gillian Anderson is Agent Scully on The X-Files and the lead in Terence
Davies "House of Mirth."
Unless, of course, you know something we should hear, Damien.
g
Maxime Renaudin wrote:
>--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
>wrote:
>
>
>>>21. Robert Aldrich
>>>
>>>
>>22. Gillian Anderson
>>23. John M. Stahl
>>24. Joseph Losey
>>25. William Dieterle
>>
>>
>
>
>Who is Gillian Anderson?
>
>
>
>
24839
From: MG4273@...
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:02pm
Subject: Curtis Harrington nzkpzq
In a message dated 05-03-24 14:55:22 EST, you write:
<< On a serious note, Curtis had what was described as a minor stroke.
He was in hospital for a month, mostly for physical therapy. Now
he's back home. He looks healthy and is his feisty self, has some
trouble walking (needs a cane) but is improving daily. >>
Hope Curtis Harrington gets better soon!
He has always been one of the greats - have several times expressed the
opinion on a_film_by that he is a Pantheon director!
Mike Grost
24840
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:07am
Subject: Re: Remember jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Blake Lucas"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
> wrote:
> >
> > I can't remember who asked for the full Rossetti poem earlier.
So
> > here it is. I had memorized it at school maybe a year before I
> first
> > saw KISS ME DEADLY so it was a thrill to find it as the
Ariadne's
> > thread in this wonderful movie. I checked the text because I had
a
> > few words wrong the way we often do (e.g., David's riding
> students :)
> >
> >
> > Remember me when I am gone away,
> > Gone far away into the silent land;
> > When you can no more hold me by the hand,
> > Nor I half turn to go yet turning stay.
> > Remember me when no more day by day
> > You tell me of the future that you planned:
> > Only remember me; you understand
> > It will be late to counsel then or pray.
> > Yet if you should forget me for a while
> > And afterwards remember, do not grieve:
> > For if the darkness and corruption leave
> > A vestige of the thoughts that once I had,
> > Better by far you should forget and smile
> > Than that you should remember and be sad.
> >
> >
> > Of course the key to the swallowed key was in lines 11 and 12.
>
> That was me that asked for it JPC, so thank you for doing this.
It
> gave me a chill to read the whole thing just now (several times).
> In line 12, I'm pretty sure that in the movie they read it as
> "...a vestige of the thoughts that once we had..." instead of "I
> had..." If this was deliberate and your translation above is
> correct it's interesting within the context of the movie.
Blake, it's interesting because in MY memory of the poem, it was
always "the thoughts that once WE had" just as in the movie, so I
was surprised when I checked the text and found that it was "I" and
not "we". By the way, why do you say "translation"? JPC
24841
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:13am
Subject: Re: Curtis Harrington cellar47
--- MG4273@... wrote:
>
> Hope Curtis Harrington gets better soon!
> He has always been one of the greats - have several
> times expressed the
> opinion on a_film_by that he is a Pantheon director!
>
He's certainly one of the most fascinatingly original
figures in the history of the American cinema --
figuring in both the avant-garde (his own "Fragment of
Seeking" and as Cesare the Sonambulist in Anger's
"Inauguration of the Pleasure Dome") and independent
arenas ("Night Tide" "What's the Matter with Helen?")
-- plus television. His devotion to the Lewton
tradition in "Cat Creature" and "Queen Bee" is more
than merely admirable. And "Gods and Monsters"
wouldn't have been made without him.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
24842
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:14am
Subject: Re: directors (was: Top 25 directors) jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime Renaudin"
wrote:
> Bresson frames her as an angel.
> Bergman as a star.
> Cassavetes as an actress.
With all due respect, Maxime, I consider this kind of statement
at best dizzyingly arbitrary, at worst thoroughly objectionable when
it involves rating one film, one director above the other. Are you
saying that angels (or "framing" of them) are "better" than stars
and actresses? What does this possibly mean? It's nice to gush, and
I liked your Stahl gush earlier, but there are limits... JPC
24843
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:17am
Subject: Re: Curtis Harrington jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> Hope Curtis Harrington gets better soon!
> He has always been one of the greats - have several times
expressed the
> opinion on a_film_by that he is a Pantheon director!
>
> Mike Grost
Pantheon's getting mighty crowded these days...
24844
From: "Zach Campbell"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:19am
Subject: NYC: upcoming Anthology films rashomon82
It's another season of predictably fascinating programming from the
Anthology Film Archives. I'm trying to solicit some information
here about some of the programs.
1. The series 'Crossroads: Avantgarde Film in Pittsburgh in the
1970s' has a lot of big names whose work doesn't need any
recommendation. But what about some of the lesser-known names--
Stephanie Beroes, Victor Grauer, James & Leo Vale, Robert Haller,
Greg Gans, David Lee, Robert Gaylor, Roger Jacoby, Brady Lewis, Al
Mahler, Bruce Posner, Sharon Ruppert, Ralph Steiner & Willard Van
Dyke, Leann Bartok, Paul Glabicki, Tony Buba, and Sheila
Chamovitz ... which ones are worthwhile?
2. The Essential Cinema of May 12 - May 15 is probably going to be
difficult for me to see. This is especially troubling for Marcel
Hanoun's UNE SIMPLE HISTOIRE. It's on my graduation day, and unless
a miraculous space of two hours opens up that evening (unlikely)
I'll have to miss it. But since it's EC, that means it'll show at
Anthology again in 1-3 years, correct?
--Zach
24845
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:24am
Subject: Re: NYC: upcoming Anthology films cellar47
--- Zach Campbell wrote:
>
> 1. The series 'Crossroads: Avantgarde Film in
> Pittsburgh in the
> 1970s' has a lot of big names whose work doesn't
> need any
> recommendation. But what about some of the
> lesser-known names--
> Stephanie Beroes, Victor Grauer, James & Leo Vale,
> Robert Haller,
> Greg Gans, David Lee, Robert Gaylor, Roger Jacoby,
> Brady Lewis, Al
> Mahler, Bruce Posner, Sharon Ruppert, Ralph Steiner
> & Willard Van
> Dyke, Leann Bartok, Paul Glabicki, Tony Buba, and
> Sheila
> Chamovitz ... which ones are worthwhile?
>
Roger Jacoby
> 2. The Essential Cinema of May 12 - May 15 is
> probably going to be
> difficult for me to see. This is especially
> troubling for Marcel
> Hanoun's UNE SIMPLE HISTOIRE. It's on my graduation
> day, and unless
> a miraculous space of two hours opens up that
> evening (unlikely)
> I'll have to miss it. But since it's EC, that means
> it'll show at
> Anthology again in 1-3 years, correct?
>
Probably.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
24846
From: MG4273@...
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:25pm
Subject: Some top directors (more than 25) nzkpzq
In no particular order:
Alfred Hitchcock
John Ford
Fritz Lang
Orson Welles
Samuel Fuller
Buster Keaton
Josef von Sternberg
Kenji Mizoguchi
Curtis Harrington
Robert Bresson
Max Ophuls
Vincente Minnelli
D.W. Griffith
Roberto Rossellini
Michelangelo Antonioni
Ermanno Olmi
Alain Resnais
Anthony Mann
Otto Preminger
Raoul Walsh
Blake Edwards
Edgar G. Ulmer
Jacques Tourneur
Frank Borzage
Jean-Luc Godard
Agnes Varda
Carl Dreyer
Howard Hawks
Akira Kurosawa
Yasujiro Ozu
Dusan Makavejev
Joseph H. Lewis
Mike Grost
24847
From: "Damien Bona"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:50am
Subject: Re: My 25 / Gillian Anderson damienbona
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime Renaudin"
wrote:
>
> Who is Gillian Anderson?
Whoops, Gillian Anderson is the star of Davies's House of Mirth. I
meant Gillian Armstrong.
24848
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:46am
Subject: Re: directors (was: Top 25 directors) hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime Renaudin"
> wrote:
> > Bresson frames her as an angel.
> > Bergman as a star.
> > Cassavetes as an actress.
>
> With all due respect, Maxime, I consider this kind of statement
> at best dizzyingly arbitrary, at worst thoroughly objectionable
when
> it involves rating one film, one director above the other. Are you
> saying that angels (or "framing" of them) are "better" than stars
> and actresses? What does this possibly mean? It's nice to gush, and
> I liked your Stahl gush earlier, but there are limits... JPC
JP - Do you mean we shouldn't rate one film as better than another,
or that we shouldn't do it in a poetic style?
24849
From: "Hadrian"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:42am
Subject: Re: A usefully useless website habelove
But where's Shelley Winters? Her death scenes seemed so ubiqitous my business
partner wanted to cut together a short video jam entitled, "Donal Pleasance Kills,
Shelley Winters Dies".
24850
From: "Blake Lucas"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:11am
Subject: Re: Remember blakelucaslu...
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
>
>
> > >
> > > I can't remember who asked for the full Rossetti poem earlier.
> So
> > > here it is. I had memorized it at school maybe a year before I
> > first
> > > saw KISS ME DEADLY so it was a thrill to find it as the
> Ariadne's
> > > thread in this wonderful movie.
> > >
> > >
> > > Remember me when I am gone away,
> > > Gone far away into the silent land;
> > > When you can no more hold me by the hand,
> > > Nor I half turn to go yet turning stay.
> > > Remember me when no more day by day
> > > You tell me of the future that you planned:
> > > Only remember me; you understand
> > > It will be late to counsel then or pray.
> > > Yet if you should forget me for a while
> > > And afterwards remember, do not grieve:
> > > For if the darkness and corruption leave
> > > A vestige of the thoughts that once I had,
> > > Better by far you should forget and smile
> > > Than that you should remember and be sad.
> > >
>
>
> Blake, it's interesting because in MY memory of the poem, it was
> always "the thoughts that once WE had" just as in the movie, so I
> was surprised when I checked the text and found that it was "I"
and
> not "we". By the way, why do you say "translation"? JPC
Of course I misspoke when I said "translation"--I was fixed on that
change of word from I to WE. It's interesting that you remembered
it that way even knowing the whole actual poem by heart--but maybe
that's from seeing the movie fifty times or whatever it is.
In later post, you mentioned some actors and actresses, and I
believed left out the great Juano Hernandez as fight manager, Jack
Lambert (how can one thing of Elam without Lambert in this one),
Nick Dennis ("Va va voom") and of course, from that "breaking the
Caruso record" scene that prompted Dan to say "not one of my 25
favorite life experiences," Fortunio Buononova, who is just
wonderful in this absolutely wonderful scene, which I do find so
strangely exhilarating, like so much of this disquieting and in its
way poetic yet also incredibly dynamic masterpiece
And of course we don't even need to mention, obviously, the lead in
this, who here almost seems to define the word "swagger."
Thank you so much again for putting up the Rossetti poem, which I
have saved.
Blake
24851
From: Fred Camper
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 0:51pm
Subject: Re: NYC: upcoming Anthology films fredcamper
I haven't seen all the Pittsburgh figures you list, but of the ones
whose work I have, I agree with David, and can only recommend Roger
Jacoby. He's an original; there's a curiously intense randomness to his
work, so that at first it looks arbitrary and somewhat thumb-in-your-eye
oppositional -- but it isn't. Sorry I can't be more specific.
Fred Camper
24852
From: MG4273@...
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:53am
Subject: Michel Gondry, Jonas Odell nzkpzq
Encouraged by Matthew Clayfield's post about Michel Gondry, took a plunge
into contemporary music videos. Cable TV had a show last night featuring videos
from the band "The White Stripes". I knew who they were - they were in "Coffee
and Cigarettes" (Jim Jarmusch), in that film's most poetic episode, about the
Tesla Coil. Who says I'm not a hip and happenin' dude? Actually, had never
heard the White Stripes before, either...
Two of the videos were directed by Michel Gondry. One was made all out of
Legos, "Fell In Love With a Girl" (2002), and was minor but pleasant. But "The
Hardest Button to Button" (2003) was a gem. Numerous copies of a drum keep
materializing all over what looks like New York City's Central Park, forming long
lines of drums and geometric patterns. The materializations are in time with
the beat of the music. This was "real cinema": a film that shows visual
qualities and visual style. Very nice!
Also saw a video directed by newcomer Jonas Odell, "Take Me Out" (2004), with
Franz Ferdinand. This video is full of echoes of modernist art of the 1920's.
There are what look like animated versions of El Lissitzky's 3-D
abstractions, the Prouns; images mixing lines and photos, in the manner of Lazslo
Moholy-Nagy; and animated cut-outs of Victoriana engravings, recalling Max Ernst's
collage novels. Ernst's work sure seems like the ancestor of such experimental
films as Larry Jordan's "Our Lady of the Sphere", and Terry Gilliam's animations
on "Monty Python's Flying Circus".
Jonas Odell's video is something of a stunt, but it is a most pleasant one.
Wish the Criterion Collection or someone would put out a DVD box set of 100
Great Music Videos. Would be willing to help them pick out videos for it, free
of charge!
Mike Grost
PS Have not yet seen "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" (Gondry).
Wish someone would do a nature documentary about the ocelot, called "Eternal
Sunshine of the Spotted Cat".
24853
From: "Matthew Clayfield"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:42pm
Subject: Re: Michel Gondry, Jonas Odell mclayf00
You may or may not be interested, Mike:
Director's Series, Vol. 1 - The Work of Director Spike Jonze
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000AZT2X/qid=1111761602/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-2934860-9597443?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846
Director's Series, Vol. 2 - The Work of Director Chris Cunningham
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000DBJ9I/qid=1111761602/sr=8-5/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl74/103-2934860-9597443?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846
Director's Series, Vol. 3 - The Work of Director Michel Gondry
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000DBJ9J/qid=1111761602/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/103-2934860-9597443?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846
I have the Jonze and Gondry discs and they're really quite something.
24854
From: Matt Teichman
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:20pm
Subject: Re: NYC: upcoming Anthology films bufordrat
David Ehrenstein wrote:
>>1. The series 'Crossroads: Avantgarde Film in Pittsburgh in the 1970s' has a lot of big names whose work doesn't need any recommendation. But what about some of the lesser-known names--Stephanie Beroes, Victor Grauer, James & Leo Vale, Robert Haller, Greg Gans, David Lee, Robert Gaylor, Roger Jacoby, Brady Lewis, Al Mahler, Bruce Posner, Sharon Ruppert, Ralph Steiner & Willard Van Dyke, Leann Bartok, Paul Glabicki, Tony Buba, and Sheila
>>Chamovitz ... which ones are worthwhile?
>>
>>
>Roger Jacoby
>
>
I second that. Very interesting filmmaker.
Also, I'd say never miss a Ralph Steiner screening. If the listing
mentions a Steiner/Van Dyke collaboration, they might be showing _The
City_--a stunning film.
-Matt
24855
From: "Matt Armstrong"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:43pm
Subject: Re: Michel Gondry, Jonas Odell matt_c_armst...
> Director's Series, Vol. 2 - The Work of Director Chris Cunningham
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
/B0000DBJ9I/qid=1111761602/sr=8-5/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl74/103-
2934860-9597443?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846
Cunningham's work is also brilliant. His videos for Aphex Twin have
been deemed too disturbing for MTV.
24856
From: "Hadrian"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:33pm
Subject: Re: Michel Gondry, Jonas Odell habelove
The extended "Windowlicker" video the most bizarre, terrifying, and hilarious satires
of Los Angeles imagery ever --a mini-masterpiece. There's a reason why, with only a
tenth the work done of Gondry and Jonze, and no feature filims, he was included as
the third in Palm Pictures' Directors Series.
Spike Jonze has the wittiest concepts, but Gondry is the best MTV director at
visualizing musical abstractions a la Fischinger. However, the if you really like the
kind of stuff, I was blown away by Koichiri Tsujikawa's videos on the Cornelius DVD.
Especially "Drop", where he endless riffs on the visual possibilities of running water.
hadrian
24857
From: "Kevin Lee"
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:10pm
Subject: Re: Michel Gondry, Jonas Odell alsolikelife
Mike, aren't you in Detroit? And you had never heard of the White
Stripes???
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> Two of the videos were directed by Michel Gondry. One was made all
out of
> Legos, "Fell In Love With a Girl" (2002), and was minor but
pleasant.
I think this video is interesting if you want to talk about issues of
representation and "essences" (a la Warhol's silkscreens) -- maybe a
familiarity with The White Stripes comes into play here. I for one
was amazed how a series of animated colored blocks could convey the
White Stripes' personality and movements (Meg White's behavior on the
drumset is almost inimitable -- except perhaps by a girl playing with
a toy drum kit on her fifth birthday).
> Also saw a video directed by newcomer Jonas Odell, "Take Me Out"
(2004), with
> Franz Ferdinand.
Incidentally, this song was picked as the #1 single of 2004 by the
Village Voice Pazz and Jop poll. I haven't seen the video but if
it's as striking as you describe it probably had something to do with
elevating the song's stature. Occasionally I can't help wondering
what songs would be popular these days if there weren't videos to
sell them based on the images of the artists.
24858
From: MG4273@...
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:59pm
Subject: Re: Michel Gondry, Jonas Odell nzkpzq
In a message dated 05-03-25 17:11:35 EST, Kevin Lee writes:
<< Mike, aren't you in Detroit? And you had never heard of the White
Stripes???
>>
I'm mainly a classical music lover. And only know about rock when it shows up
in music videos, or old pop songs when they appear in movie musicals.
Every so often, Detroit newspapers make a big deal about a brand of pop music
known as Techno. I've never heard it...
But gee, I'm trying to learn!
All the classical fans in Detroit were thrilled when the Michigan Opera
Theater's own Wilhelmenia Wiggins Fernandez became the toast of Paris in the film
"Diva". She has an astonishing voice. Also enjoyed Jean-Jacques Beineix's later
film IP5, which is a sort of French language hip-hop musical, a strange and
original mix. It is a Little Known Film that is full of charm. Beineix seems
out of favor with many critics, who object to his emphasis on visual style for
its own sake. But that is precisely the source of his charm.
Meg White's drumming is also the star of "The Hardest Button to Button"
(Gondry), with her drums multiplying like magic. Drumming is so cinematic, but few
filmmakers seem to be exploiting it for films. A glorious exception: the
"Drummer Man" finale of "Young and Innocent" (Alfred Hitchcock).
Mike Grost
humming "Video Killed the Radio Star" here...
24859
From: "Maxime Renaudin"
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:22am
Subject: Re: directors (was: Top 25 directors) jaloysius56
A cineaste reveals himself through the way he looks at his world,
and, notably, through the way he looks at his actors: the distance
from the heart, the space of the breath, the frontiers of the
thoughts. (I can hear Fred screaming now… But, Fred, note I
said "notably"…)
The cinema of Cassavetes is bogged in a relation to the real that
sustains confusion between the film act and its object. When
Cassavetes films Rowlands, I can't see anything but Rowlands being
filmed by Cassavetes. It seems to me that we are here just in a
middle of the road, and that the unborn world simply dies in lies.
Bergman comes more readily to terms with the fetishism of dead
images, when the film object is the one of desire. These images are
to be sold. I bump into the smooth surface of her face that has
nothing to offer above a program known by everyone. The heart is
preheated.
As for the angels, I couldn't find any other word the express the
grace of showing the invisible.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime Renaudin"
> wrote:
> > Bresson frames her as an angel.
> > Bergman as a star.
> > Cassavetes as an actress.
>
> With all due respect, Maxime, I consider this kind of
statement
> at best dizzyingly arbitrary, at worst thoroughly objectionable
when
> it involves rating one film, one director above the other. Are you
> saying that angels (or "framing" of them) are "better" than stars
> and actresses? What does this possibly mean? It's nice to gush,
and
> I liked your Stahl gush earlier, but there are limits... JPC
24860
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:08am
Subject: Re: directors (was: Top 25 directors) jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime Renaudin"
wrote:
>
> A cineaste reveals himself through the way he looks at his world,
> and, notably, through the way he looks at his actors: the distance
> from the heart, the space of the breath, the frontiers of the
> thoughts. (I can hear Fred screaming now… But, Fred, note I
> said "notably"…)
> The cinema of Cassavetes is bogged in a relation to the real that
> sustains confusion between the film act and its object. When
> Cassavetes films Rowlands, I can't see anything but Rowlands being
> filmed by Cassavetes. It seems to me that we are here just in a
> middle of the road, and that the unborn world simply dies in lies.
> Bergman comes more readily to terms with the fetishism of dead
> images, when the film object is the one of desire. These images
are
> to be sold. I bump into the smooth surface of her face that has
> nothing to offer above a program known by everyone. The heart is
> preheated.
> As for the angels, I couldn't find any other word the express the
> grace of showing the invisible.
>
True. Beautiful. I apologize. Bill pointed out to me that what
you were doing was poetry. Poetry as criticism should be off limits.
I withdraw, with humility. JPC
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime Renaudin"
>
> > wrote:
> > > Bresson frames her as an angel.
> > > Bergman as a star.
> > > Cassavetes as an actress.
> >
> > With all due respect, Maxime, I consider this kind of
> statement
> > at best dizzyingly arbitrary, at worst thoroughly objectionable
> when
> > it involves rating one film, one director above the other. Are
you
> > saying that angels (or "framing" of them) are "better" than
stars
> > and actresses? What does this possibly mean? It's nice to gush,
> and
> > I liked your Stahl gush earlier, but there are limits... JPC
24861
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:10am
Subject: The New Look jpcoursodon
Who moved my cheese? Look what they done to my song, Ma.
Oh, I guess we'll have to adapt.
24862
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:04am
Subject: Re: The New Look hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
>
> Who moved my cheese? Look what they done to my song, Ma.
>
> Oh, I guess we'll have to adapt.
It'll never be the same.
24863
From: "Henrik Sylow"
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:18am
Subject: Re: The New Look henrik_sylow
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666" wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
> wrote:
> >
> > Who moved my cheese? Look what they done to my song, Ma.
> >
> > Oh, I guess we'll have to adapt.
>
> It'll never be the same.
I have Kojak blocking my view, when I press next, I get previous, when
I press previous, I get next, and clicking heels doesn't work. Guess
its still Kansas.
24864
From: "Matthew Clayfield"
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 0:34pm
Subject: Re: Michel Gondry, Jonas Odell mclayf00
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> Meg White's drumming is also the star of "The Hardest Button to Button"
> (Gondry), with her drums multiplying like magic.
I just re-watched three of Gondry's videos for The White Stripes and I
have to say that I think my favourites might actually be 'Dead Leaves
on the Dirty Ground' and 'Fell in Love with a Girl'. But 'Dead Leaves'
above all others. That video's a work of art.
As far as the 'star' of 'Hardest Button to Button to Button' goes, I'd
have to say it's the continuous 360-degree pan that ends the song, in
which Meg moves with the camera (jumping from drum kit to drum kit)
while Jack keeps appearing and disappearing, sometimes closer to the
camera, sometimes further back, sometimes on the ground, sometimes
jumping around. It's the Indie rock version of the opening shot of
Maya Deren's ' A Study in Choreography for the Camera'.
24865
From: "Maxime Renaudin"
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:13pm
Subject: Bela Tarr & Humbert Balsan jaloysius56
Production of The Man from London is stalled after the death of
Balsan, with little hope for the future. I can't say I waited that
much for this one, but it's sad to see that films to be born are
already missing him.
http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=283573
24866
From: "samfilms2003"
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:19pm
Subject: Re: NYC: upcoming Anthology films samfilms2003
I just want to put in a word for Tony Buba.
Tony is unique, a true original.
I realize this isn't too helpful; I'll try and think of something more to say.
-Sam W
24867
From: "samfilms2003"
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:25pm
Subject: Re: The New Look samfilms2003
This "new look" is truly awful.
On Macintosh at least type is so faint it's hard to read. Is that true on Win/PC ?
I don't have enough hours in the day to sort any more email, so I don't want that
option.
-Sam
24868
From: "Fred Camper"
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:58pm
Subject: Re: The New Look fredcamper
I don't like it either. I just used the "feedback" option to send
comments to Yahoo! I don't know if this will do any good, but if you
have comments on the new look please send them.
I especially dislike the fact that the "expand message" option doesn't
permit you to view messages in the order they were posted; now it
begins with the most recent. When reading old messages, this makes no
sense.
Fred Camper
24869
From: "Blake Lucas"
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:23pm
Subject: Re: The New Look blakelucaslu...
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Camper" wrote:
>
> I don't like it either. I just used the "feedback" option to send
> comments to Yahoo! I don't know if this will do any good, but if you
> have comments on the new look please send them.
>
> I especially dislike the fact that the "expand message" option
doesn't
> permit you to view messages in the order they were posted; now it
> begins with the most recent. When reading old messages, this makes no
> sense.
>
> Fred Camper
That "expand message" option is the first thing that annoyed me too
--well, one of them. I second what everyone else has said so far.
Not many comments yet, but it seems like no one likes the change. Is
there a member out there who likes this "new look?"
Don't forget we are living in a world where those restoring a film
often claim that it now looks and sounds "better than it ever did..."
even when first released.
24870
From: Mathieu Ricordi
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:01pm
Subject: Re: 25 Directors mathieu_ricordi
I don't want to be a hypocrite (blasting away on the absence of a
director on your lists while not having submitted one myself), but the
neglect of one major cinema artist so far seems to me a tragedy.
Where is Michael Powell? It would be unthinkable for me to leave him
off my top ten, let alone my top 25, but so far I have yet to see him
appear. Neglect of this master seems to have been the story of his career,
at least for a good few decades until restorations and re-releases of his
works (mainly those with the screenwriter Emeric Pressburger) brought forth
roughly a quarter of his due recognition; but lets face it, there's still
a lot of catching up to do. Neglected by the
'Cahiers' troops of his day because his gentlemenly act of giving his
screenwriter and co-producer a co-directing credit made him seem anti-auteur,
and shunned by the critics on his home turf where he should have been the
national pride, rarely has there been a director so worthy of re-appraisel.
Quite simply, a Michael Powell film at its very best is every promise
of this great art form subtely layered in a dilectable treat: image,
movement, gesture, music, love, morality, social awareness, worldly
substance, wisdom, trancendence, drama, comedy, magic, purpose, personality.
I don't think I'm overstating, Powell's fantastic ouevre has the
deceptive cover of great fables that instantly please the rawest
cravings for pleasure through sight/sound/dramatic structure/
childlike imagination, but amongst it all is the richness and
complexities possesed by the films of the greatest auteurs.
In my highly selective and ultimate pantheon to which I submit
"The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp", "Black Narcissus", "A Matter
of Life and Death" "The Red Shoes" "Peeping Tom" and "I know Where
I'm Going", I see a constant and astonishing collage of innovations,
revelations, and awe inspiring manifestations of an artist deeply
involved and concerned with the reach and possibilities of his
medium.
Such is the breadth of his complexities that I feel that no thread
can give it full measure (I myself will in no way be able to pay tribute
in the way I would have wished) but I will try in my abreviated
way to cover a few things. In the works I have listed above though,
the recurring themes of mortality, love, artistic muse/vision/responsibilty,
national identity, and what it means to be alive are always given
their full breathing and contemplative space even as they are being
balanced with a playfullness that does not give them a pompous
seriousness.
With the issue of mortality, Powell always looked deep into the
crucial issues of legacy, old age, nostalgia, and divine retrebution.
His Colonel Blimp is increasingly faced with slams towards his 'old-stock'
point of view and has the dilemna of personal redmption versus
new world realities. His decision making must ask whether or not
to hold on to his respected old era ways or face and contribute
to a new era and therefore lose himself in order to accept/help
the changing face of the national soldier (aka himself)----
old age has rarely been treated with more aching than this. His
David Niven character in "A Matter of Life and Death" is faced
with termination before he can experience love or create a legacy.
The scene on the stairway to heaven where he passes all the great
historical agents of truth and wisdom that can represent him in his
"life case" is chilling, will he ever get to try to be like them?
His Boris Lamontov is a tragic and difficult embodiment of mortal
desires fighting immortal projections; his conflict is between
putting all his artistic desires, ego, longings onto the young
ballerina and then feeling simple cravings for her as her (rarely
has the fight between the detachment of the artist from the man against
the man himself been carried out to such obsessive ends).
Powell's national identity questions have also gone further and
to more intersting ends. His pack of nuns have in "Black Narcicuss"
have trouble controling their more primal urges in their new
outpost in India, are these urges their's to own? Just as does
the colonization of India make that country England's? This is a
darring parralel, one that counts in the absurdity of histories
many examples of nations taking over others and trying to convert the
people. Their is a beauty, awe, and even fear to the Indian surroundings
in that film that marks a respectful break from any notions of ownership
and control. Similairly, Powell has grappled with what it means to be
British within its own rights; particularly in regards to the control
over emotions, and the ritualistic gentlemen charade. Blimp's embodiement
of these virtues marks a significant suffering in his life, escpecially
in his own personal dealings with many of the before mentioned Powell themes.
As for the full breadth of what it means to be an artist, no one
has gone further than Powell. His Peeping Tom is a mild mannered
psycopath torn by the catharsis of art. The camera and his obsession
for its consuming nature becomes the full extension of Powell's fears
of responsibilty, and of the intrusion of the cinema to satisfy
personal cravings. Boris lamontov is equally demonic in his
utilization of his balerina muse to satisfy his own artistic catharsis.
Powell fears/respects/stands in awe of his medium, and he goes
further than having just the cinema as a subject within his films,
he puts the weight of morality, awarness, and personal grapling
on its shoulders.
And when it comes to women (and itricacies and respect for the
diversity of the sexes) Powell has been equally respectfull and
thoughtfull. Women in Powell films are never an arm-piece or
cliche vehicles for mens' fantasies, they are the mirror
and aider to the hope that lies at the end of the huge
conflicts. Deborah Kerr in "Blimp" keeps coming in different
versions of herself to outline the differences in outlooks of the
two soldier friends in the films, she changes with the times as a
constant reminder of the issues that seperate the friends, and that
threaten to tear them apart. In "A Matter of Life and Death", Kim Hunter
is the voice of reason a inspiration in a world that amalgamates the
violence and division of men cutting themselves short through
narrow-minded conflicts. And of course, Moira Shearer, the sacrificial
lamb for the torrid/frusterated male fantasies, but immortal in her
caring acts, and hope for a combination of the two opposing
forces at work in both her husband and ballet mentor coming together.
And I haven't even described the images that define one of the
most poetic/lyrical/imaginative directors ever. They are to be
discovered or re-loved without whatever endless list I could come
up with. I've barely scratched the surface (time restraints),
but my bemusement still stands; where's Powell?
Mathieu Ricordi
24871
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:41pm
Subject: Re: Michael Powell (Was: 25 Directors) cellar47
--- Mathieu Ricordi wrote:
>
> I don't want to be a hypocrite (blasting away on the
> absence of a
> director on your lists while not having submitted
> one myself), but the
> neglect of one major cinema artist so far seems to
> me a tragedy.
> Where is Michael Powell?
Hey, I put him (and Pressburger) very high on my list!
Didn't you see it?
Powell is a giant of cinema. "The Red Shoes," "Peeping
Tom," "A Matter of Life and Death," "Black Narcissus,"
and "The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp" are towering
masterworks that none have equallted (though Ken
Russell's "The Devils" and Derek Jarman's "Edward II"
have come awfully close.) His books "A Life in the
Movies" and the posthumously published "Million Dollar
Movie" are required reading.
Oh how I wish he were still around! I had the great
pleasure of chatting with him back in the 80's (I
still have the tape) and the discussion turned to
"Black Narcissus." I asked him about the historical
research he undertook to make the film. "Oh we didn't
do any research. We made it all up!"
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
24872
From: "Dave Garrett"
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:49pm
Subject: Re: The New Look dave_garrett
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Camper" wrote:
> I don't like it either. I just used the "feedback" option to send
> comments to Yahoo! I don't know if this will do any good, but if you
> have comments on the new look please send them.
>
> I especially dislike the fact that the "expand message" option doesn't
> permit you to view messages in the order they were posted; now it
> begins with the most recent. When reading old messages, this makes no
> sense.
That, and they've inexplicably removed the message numbers from the
expanded view, so now you can't click "expand messages" and use the
find option in your browser to search for the last message number you
read to navigate immediately to where you left off. I also used the
"feedback" option last night to express my displeasure with this
change, as well as the previously-noted "flipping" of the previous
and next links, but I'm not under any illusions that Yahoo will
actually respond to any criticisms.
I suspect they're trying to remake the Groups to look more like the
recently-implemented (and similarly misguided) changes to Google
Groups, as well as maximize individual page click-throughs by
removing some of the utility of the "expand messages" view. I'm tempted to switch to email only, but I'd be forced to set up a
new email account to handle the message volume (I read several
other high-traffic Yahoo Groups), plus I've heard many complaints
in the past that Yahoo's mail servers are much slower to deliver
Groups emails and will occasionally drop posts entirely.
Dave
24873
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:00pm
Subject: Re: Michael Powell (Was: 25 Directors) sallitt1
>> I don't want to be a hypocrite (blasting away on the
>> absence of a
>> director on your lists while not having submitted
>> one myself), but the
>> neglect of one major cinema artist so far seems to
>> me a tragedy.
>> Where is Michael Powell?
>
> Hey, I put him (and Pressburger) very high on my list!
> Didn't you see it?
He was on my list too.
Anyway, you shouldn't be bothered when someone is left off a top-25 list -
there just aren't enough slots to go around for all the great directors. -
Dan
24874
From: "jess_l_amortell"
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:30pm
Subject: Re: The New Look jess_l_amortell
> > the "expand message" option doesn't
> > permit you to view messages in the order they were posted; now it
> > begins with the most recent. When reading old messages, this makes no
> > sense.
I just noticed this curiosity: If you click on "View: Thread" instead of "View: Date," the messages are at least displayed in chronological order within each "thread."
24875
From: "Noel Bjorndahl & Carole Dent"
Date: Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:59pm
Subject: Re: 25 Directors noelbjorndahl
An eloquent appraisal. Powell is a giant even in in terms of pure stylistics-his mise-en-scene was light years ahead of his British contemporaries.
I particularly love I Know Where I'm Going, the film that I think most expressively presents Powell as a great lyrical poet/celebrant of the wildness of British landscapes (and seascapes), explored with great intensity through storms and mists, whirlpools, ancient curses, and ruined castles, where the mythic and the elemental collide. Wonderfully detailed and individuated in terms of local colour (eg the ruby wedding and Ceilidh, social pecking orders, etc), the film is a rich, near-mystical experience forged out of regional nature and custom. Just as A Canterbury Tale is charged with Powell's personal responses to the mysteries of the Kentish countryside and Chaucer's Britain, I Know Where I'm Going extends his love and awe of the isolated Scottish islands begun in The Edge of the World.
This Powell work, like many others is is rich on several levels, as love story, as fable, as quest for self-discovery and again, the erotic element that gives his best films such an emotional charge, is always foregrounded: it's embodied in the troubled, repressed, quivering energies of Wendy Hiller's superbly realized performance, just this side of self-control. The presence of Pamela Brown's wistful gaze and long, lush tresses equally emphasises the kind of awakening Powell has in mind for his heroine.
Where's Powell? High in my 25, that's for sure.
Noel
----- Original Message -----
From: Mathieu Ricordi
To: a_film_by@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 4:01 AM
Subject: Re: [a_film_by] 25 Directors
I don't want to be a hypocrite (blasting away on the absence of a
director on your lists while not having submitted one myself), but the
neglect of one major cinema artist so far seems to me a tragedy.
Where is Michael Powell? It would be unthinkable for me to leave him
off my top ten, let alone my top 25, but so far I have yet to see him
appear. Neglect of this master seems to have been the story of his career,
at least for a good few decades until restorations and re-releases of his
works (mainly those with the screenwriter Emeric Pressburger) brought forth
roughly a quarter of his due recognition; but lets face it, there's still
a lot of catching up to do. Neglected by the
'Cahiers' troops of his day because his gentlemenly act of giving his
screenwriter and co-producer a co-directing credit made him seem anti-auteur,
and shunned by the critics on his home turf where he should have been the
national pride, rarely has there been a director so worthy of re-appraisel.
Quite simply, a Michael Powell film at its very best is every promise
of this great art form subtely layered in a dilectable treat: image,
movement, gesture, music, love, morality, social awareness, worldly
substance, wisdom, trancendence, drama, comedy, magic, purpose, personality.
I don't think I'm overstating, Powell's fantastic ouevre has the
deceptive cover of great fables that instantly please the rawest
cravings for pleasure through sight/sound/dramatic structure/
childlike imagination, but amongst it all is the richness and
complexities possesed by the films of the greatest auteurs.
In my highly selective and ultimate pantheon to which I submit
"The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp", "Black Narcissus", "A Matter
of Life and Death" "The Red Shoes" "Peeping Tom" and "I know Where
I'm Going", I see a constant and astonishing collage of innovations,
revelations, and awe inspiring manifestations of an artist deeply
involved and concerned with the reach and possibilities of his
medium.
Such is the breadth of his complexities that I feel that no thread
can give it full measure (I myself will in no way be able to pay tribute
in the way I would have wished) but I will try in my abreviated
way to cover a few things. In the works I have listed above though,
the recurring themes of mortality, love, artistic muse/vision/responsibilty,
national identity, and what it means to be alive are always given
their full breathing and contemplative space even as they are being
balanced with a playfullness that does not give them a pompous
seriousness.
With the issue of mortality, Powell always looked deep into the
crucial issues of legacy, old age, nostalgia, and divine retrebution.
His Colonel Blimp is increasingly faced with slams towards his 'old-stock'
point of view and has the dilemna of personal redmption versus
new world realities. His decision making must ask whether or not
to hold on to his respected old era ways or face and contribute
to a new era and therefore lose himself in order to accept/help
the changing face of the national soldier (aka himself)----
old age has rarely been treated with more aching than this. His
David Niven character in "A Matter of Life and Death" is faced
with termination before he can experience love or create a legacy.
The scene on the stairway to heaven where he passes all the great
historical agents of truth and wisdom that can represent him in his
"life case" is chilling, will he ever get to try to be like them?
His Boris Lamontov is a tragic and difficult embodiment of mortal
desires fighting immortal projections; his conflict is between
putting all his artistic desires, ego, longings onto the young
ballerina and then feeling simple cravings for her as her (rarely
has the fight between the detachment of the artist from the man against
the man himself been carried out to such obsessive ends).
Powell's national identity questions have also gone further and
to more intersting ends. His pack of nuns have in "Black Narcicuss"
have trouble controling their more primal urges in their new
outpost in India, are these urges their's to own? Just as does
the colonization of India make that country England's? This is a
darring parralel, one that counts in the absurdity of histories
many examples of nations taking over others and trying to convert the
people. Their is a beauty, awe, and even fear to the Indian surroundings
in that film that marks a respectful break from any notions of ownership
and control. Similairly, Powell has grappled with what it means to be
British within its own rights; particularly in regards to the control
over emotions, and the ritualistic gentlemen charade. Blimp's embodiement
of these virtues marks a significant suffering in his life, escpecially
in his own personal dealings with many of the before mentioned Powell themes.
As for the full breadth of what it means to be an artist, no one
has gone further than Powell. His Peeping Tom is a mild mannered
psycopath torn by the catharsis of art. The camera and his obsession
for its consuming nature becomes the full extension of Powell's fears
of responsibilty, and of the intrusion of the cinema to satisfy
personal cravings. Boris lamontov is equally demonic in his
utilization of his balerina muse to satisfy his own artistic catharsis.
Powell fears/respects/stands in awe of his medium, and he goes
further than having just the cinema as a subject within his films,
he puts the weight of morality, awarness, and personal grapling
on its shoulders.
And when it comes to women (and itricacies and respect for the
diversity of the sexes) Powell has been equally respectfull and
thoughtfull. Women in Powell films are never an arm-piece or
cliche vehicles for mens' fantasies, they are the mirror
and aider to the hope that lies at the end of the huge
conflicts. Deborah Kerr in "Blimp" keeps coming in different
versions of herself to outline the differences in outlooks of the
two soldier friends in the films, she changes with the times as a
constant reminder of the issues that seperate the friends, and that
threaten to tear them apart. In "A Matter of Life and Death", Kim Hunter
is the voice of reason a inspiration in a world that amalgamates the
violence and division of men cutting themselves short through
narrow-minded conflicts. And of course, Moira Shearer, the sacrificial
lamb for the torrid/frusterated male fantasies, but immortal in her
caring acts, and hope for a combination of the two opposing
forces at work in both her husband and ballet mentor coming together.
And I haven't even described the images that define one of the
most poetic/lyrical/imaginative directors ever. They are to be
discovered or re-loved without whatever endless list I could come
up with. I've barely scratched the surface (time restraints),
but my bemusement still stands; where's Powell?
Mathieu Ricordi
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24876
From: "Hadrian"
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:03am
Subject: Patrick Dewaere habelove
I just saw Serie Noir, and was blown away by Patrick Dewaere's performance. I
haven't enjoyed, and been consistently surprised by watching an actor's face for
every microexpression this much since Cary Grant in His Girl Friday. Give a good
actor a good script, and he can move the world! It makes me want to rewatch the
Bertrand Blier films, cause I had no idea...
there's very little available...
Hadrian
24877
From: Peter Henne
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:18am
Subject: Powell/Pressburger [Was: 25 Directors] peterhenne
Online Now Send IM
Powell/Pressburger came very close to making my cut of 25; if I had extended the list to 30 (and these are such arbitrary cut-off numbers), they'd be definitely in. For "Red Shoes," "Tales of Hoffmann," and "O Rosalinda!"--sort of a trilogy of film exploring theatre--they are eternal, a cinema of resplendent beauty and utopian wit.
Peter Henne
Mathieu Ricordi wrote:
Where is Michael Powell?
Mathieu Ricordi
---------------------------------
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24878
From: Peter Henne
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:09am
Subject: Bergman and Bresson [Was: 25 directors] peterhenne
Online Now Send IM
What I feel you're missing here is Cassavetes' artistic honesty, his insistence on acknowledging that Rowlands IS an actress. He doesn't sustain confusion, rather he brings clarity to the presentation of an illusion. And I simply don't experience Ullmann's acting the way you do, as performance which simply confirms my belief system. Most of her performances in Bergman's films are wellsprings to which I return for instructive integrity, the enlightenment of new feelings.
From where I stand, none of my praise comes at the expense of Bresson and his non-professional casts. Not too long ago a contributor (not you, Maxime) wrote that anybody who elevates Bergman above Bresson doesn't understand cinema. Like just about all nasty remarks meant to shame the unbelieving, it falls short of convincing once you start to look closely at the matter. Strong cases have been and will continue to be made for both filmmakers; e.g., Bergman for his advances into self-reflexivity, and Bresson for his interplay between sound and image. I would rather spend time investigating what each director excels at. Seems more productive and much more enjoyable.
Peter Henne
Maxime Renaudin wrote:
The cinema of Cassavetes is bogged in a relation to the real that
sustains confusion between the film act and its object. When
Cassavetes films Rowlands, I can't see anything but Rowlands being
filmed by Cassavetes. It seems to me that we are here just in a
middle of the road, and that the unborn world simply dies in lies.
Bergman comes more readily to terms with the fetishism of dead
images, when the film object is the one of desire. These images are
to be sold. I bump into the smooth surface of her face that has
nothing to offer above a program known by everyone. The heart is
preheated.
As for the angels, I couldn't find any other word the express the
grace of showing the invisible.
__________________________________________________
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24879
From: Matt Teichman
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:39am
Subject: Re: Patrick Dewaere bufordrat
Dewaere was one of the finest actors ever to grace the screen. I hope
he someday gets the recognition he deserves.
I agree--his performance in _Serie noire_ is spectacular. And his
acting in Blier's films all but defines the art:_Les Valseuses_,
_Preparez vos mouchoirs_, and _Beau-pere_. Watch the opening of
_Mouchoirs_; the kinaesthetic rapport between him and Depardieu is no
less than preternatural.
Some fun Dewaere roles: _Coup de tete_, _Mille milliards de dollars_
(there's a frightening film), _Un mauvais fils_. I've not seen any of
the work he did as a young boy, though I'd like to.
-Matt
Hadrian wrote:
>I just saw Serie Noir, and was blown away by Patrick Dewaere's performance. I
>haven't enjoyed, and been consistently surprised by watching an actor's face for
>every microexpression this much since Cary Grant in His Girl Friday. Give a good
>actor a good script, and he can move the world! It makes me want to rewatch the
>Bertrand Blier films, cause I had no idea...
>
>there's very little available...
>
>Hadrian
>
>
24880
From: Samuel Bréan
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:01am
Subject: RE: Powell/Pressburger + Feminist journals quimby_the_m...
The latest issue of "Screen" has quite a few articles on Michael Powell (one
of my favorite filmmakers, too). Haven't read it yet.
http://screen.oupjournals.org/content/vol46/issue1/index.dtl?etoc
Has anyone read the Autumn 2004 "Signs" issue, on "Beyond the Gaze: Recent
Approaches to Film Feminisms"? It's not available at many libraries here in
Paris, so I haven't been able to browse through it yet.
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/Signs/journal/contents/v30n1.html
Samuel
24881
From: "Noel Bjorndahl & Carole Dent"
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:53am
Subject: Re: 25 Directors noelbjorndahl
Here's the first 25 that spring to mind:
Evgenii Bauer
Louis Feuillade
D W Griffith
Charlie Chaplin
Dziga Vertov
Carl Theodor Dreyer
Fritz Lang
F W Murnau
Jean Renoir
Ernst Lubitsch
Alexander Dovzhenko
King Vidor
Yasujiro Ozu
Buster Keaton
Josef Von Sternberg
Howard Hawks
John Ford
Alfred Hitchcock
Kenji Mizoguchi
Leo McCarey
John M Stahl
Jean Vigo
Luis Bunuel
Erich Von Stroheim
Rex Ingram
Then there's:
Allan Dwan
Mikio Naruse
Michael Powell
Raoul Walsh
Cecil B De Mille
Jean Gremillon
Frank Borzage
Victor Sjostrom
Orson Welles
Max Ophuls
George Cukor
Vincente Minnelli
Douglas Sirk
Sergei Eisenstein
Roberto Rossellini
Luchino Visconti
Robert Bresson
Manoel De Oliveira
Jacques Becker
Humphrey Jennings
Robert Flaherty
Leni Riefenstahl
And:
Nicholas Ray
Otto Preminger
Samuel Fuller
Budd Boetticher
Michelangelo Antonioni
Ingmar Bergman
Alf Sjoberg
Preston Sturges
Robert Hamer
Alexander Mackendrick
Anthony Mann
Gregory La Cava
Tex Avery
Bob Clampett
Frank Tashlin
Jerry Lewis
Albert Lewin
Robert Siodmak
Phil Karlson
Joseph H Lewis
And:
Jean-Pierre Melville
Jacques Tati
Jacques Demy
Alain Resnais
Jean-Luc Godard
Eric Rohmer
John Cassavetes
Satyajit Ray
Guru Dutt
Jacques Rivette
Francois Truffaut
Jean Rouch
Chris Marker
Sohrab Shahid Saless
Bernardo Bertolucci
Werner Herzog
Hans-Jurgen Syberberg
Claude Sautet
Shohei Imamura
Rainer Werner Fassbinder
Maurice Pialat
Wim Wenders
Andrei Tarkovsky
Miklos Jancso
Krzysztof Zanussi
Krzysztof Kieslowski
Roman Polanski
Terence Fisher
Nagisa Oshima
And also:
Edward Yang
Abbas Kiarostami
Yilmaz Guney
Hou Hsaio Hsien
Tsai Ming-Liang
Sergio Leone
Bela Tarr
Otar Iosseliani
Hong Sang-Soo.....
It's rumoured that Mahler wanted to include the world in his symphonies while Sibelius sought to exclude...I'm a sucker for lists so I'm going with the Mahler option in the above choices-25 would be an excruciating exercise.
Noel----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Henne
To: a_film_by@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:25 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] 25 Directors
The names within each tier are in no particular order.
FIRST TIER:
Carl-Theodor Dreyer
Kenji Mizoguchi
Jean-Luc Godard
Andrei Tarkovsky
SECOND TIER:
Robert Bresson
Roberto Rossellini
Nagisa Oshima
Sergei Paradjanov
Stanley Kubrick
John Cassavetes
John Ford
Jean Renoir
Alfred Hitchcock
Federico Fellini
Ingmar Bergman
Nicholas Ray
Alain Resnais
Jacques Rivette
Manoel de Oliveira
Fritz Lang
Jean-Marie Straub and Danielle Huillet
F.W. Murnau
Josef von Sternberg
Pier Paolo Pasolini
Sam Peckinpah
--Peter Henne
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24882
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:49pm
Subject: Re: Powell/Pressburger + Feminist journals jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Samuel Bréan
wrote:
>
> Has anyone read the Autumn 2004 "Signs" issue, on "Beyond the
Gaze: Recent
> Approaches to Film Feminisms"? It's not available at many
libraries here in
> Paris, so I haven't been able to browse through it yet.
>
> http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/Signs/journal/contents/v30n1.html
>
> Samuel
Does anyone here read feminist journals? Is anyone here
a "feminist" (whatever that may mean in this day and age)? Is anyone
here female? (aside from Elizabeth?) Are you a feminist, Samuel?
Nothing wrong with that, of course. Just curious.
Subscription to "Signs" for a year is $46.00 for the US and
$61.00 for the rest of the world. Pretty stiff but not unusual for
academic journals. "Beyond the Gaze" is an enticing title. It would
be nice for a change if feminists went "beyond" their usual mumbo-
jumbo.
Have you read previous issues, Samuel? Anything interesting from
our point of view? I didn't mean to sound sarcastic...
JPC
24883
From: LiLiPUT1@...
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:45am
Subject: Re: Re: Powell/Pressburger + Feminist journals scil1973
I am a feminist, JP. Or rather, to borrow bell hooks' useful phrase, I
advocate feminism.
Very little of the feminist film theory I've read (which is a lot) is mumbo
jumbo.
Unsarcastically,
Kevin John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
24884
From: LiLiPUT1@...
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:08am
Subject: Recent Warhol film experience scil1973
Y'all -
Got to see Warhol's HORSE for the first time a few days ago. The film started
with the bottom eighth of the frame at the top. (Don't know the technical
term for that or the way to fix it.) I asked the projectionist if she could fix
it. "Oh, that's just the way it is," I was informed. "Well, okay," I thought.
"Much of POOR LITTLE RICH GIRL is hideously out of focus. The sound in OUTER
AND INNER SPACE is atrocious. I suppose it's possible the framing in HORSE is
fucked up." So I watched about 31 minutes of the first 33-minute reel with the
framing fucked up. About 32 minutes into the reel, a guy in the front row came
to the back of the auditorium, fiddled with the projector for about two
seconds and fixed the framing. How he didn't notice the fucked up framing for over
half an hour or became bothered by it only at that point is beyond me. The
framing for the other two reels was fine.
Just wanted to let you know.
Kevin John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
24885
From: Fred Camper
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:25pm
Subject: Re: Recent Warhol film experience fredcamper
It doesn't hurt to learn a little about how projectors work, especially
for situations like this. Most 16mm projectors and 8mm have a little
lever either right next to the gate or under or above it, an up-down
lever that adjusts the frame line. On a few projectors, it's a knob. The
only films I know of that have the frame line intentionally showing are
Stan Brakhage's "23rd Psalm Branch" and "Song 26." With those, the
frameline position changes during the film, so it's not like you could
"fix" it with an adjustment. If someone knows of a film that is intended
to have the frameline visible in the same position throughout, please
let us know.
In general I think it would be a good idea for all film scholars to
learn how to project film, at least in 16mm and 8mm. You can find used
projectors cheap, or perhaps a friend or an institution you have access
to owns one; find junk film to practice on. Indeed, making a film isn't
such a bad idea, even if you don't really have any ideas for one, just
to become more aware of film's materiality and of various aspects of
filmmaking. (As an art critic, I often find that my childhood work with
photography -- I had an enlarger and made my own prints -- is useful
when writing about photography just as not ever having painted in oils
limits me a bit.) When I taught "basic filmmaking" 25 years ago, the
first class was a lesson in how to operate a projector, and the first
assignment was to edit a film using found footage I gave out: the idea
was to learn to edit before starting to shoot.
Lest this post be seen as self-righteous criticism, let me add that I
think all film scholars should be able to read French easily, which I
cannot.
Fred Camper
24886
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:38pm
Subject: Re: Recent Warhol film experience cellar47
--- LiLiPUT1@... wrote:
> Y'all -
>
> Got to see Warhol's HORSE for the first time a few
> days ago.
So what did you think of it, Kevin? "Lonesome Cowboys"
(which Morrissey directed) is credted as Andy's first
western, but actually it's his second. "Horse" had a
script by Ronald Tavel, but the film devolved into S &
M horseplay (pun intended) led by Master Sadist Tosh
Carillo. Back in 1965 (when I saw it) it was pretty
amusing.
__________________________________
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24887
From: "samfilms2003"
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:19pm
Subject: Re: Recent Warhol film experience samfilms2003
> About 32 minutes into the reel, a guy in the front row came
> to the back of the auditorium, fiddled with the projector for about two
> seconds and fixed the framing. How he didn't notice the fucked up framing for
>over half an hour or became bothered by it only at that point is beyond me.
I'm sure he noticed. I can't think of how many times I've sat there in the dark
thinking "should I go up to the booth and just FIX this thing even if they'll think I'm
some lunatic ?"
Last time this happened, the projectionist was trying to loose a dust baby with
canned air (Dust-Off etc). I mean she was going crazy, it wasn't working (someties
it does, sometimes not) and it drove me to distraction.
So I finally said what's to loose, went up and and showed her the spit trick.
Fortunately we became friends after that.
Unfortunately she was happily married so that was it for spit tricks........
-Sam
24888
From: "Brian Charles Dauth"
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: Powell/Pressburger + Feminist journals cinebklyn
JPC asks:
> Does anyone here read feminist journals?
I do.
> Is anyone here a "feminist"
I am.
> It would be nice for a change if feminists went "beyond"
their usual mumbo-jumbo.
What is their usual mumbo-jumbo? I have never found
feminist writing to be any more jargon filled than other
critical discipline. I think one of the greatest feminist
authors -- bell hooks -- is a model of clarity, intelligence,
and communication.
Brian
24889
From: "Brian Charles Dauth"
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:36pm
Subject: Re: Easter Parade cinebklyn
Dan wrote:
> I feel as if Walters' musicals have a winking quality
of openly acknowledging the fiction: "Hey, let's get
this musical started!" instead of preparation or
character development. It's easy to be reflexive with
the musical, but I get more of a sense than usual that
Walters and the characters are communicating with the
audience directly, exposing the story as a fun pretext.
I just rewatched "Easter Parade" and Dan has it exactly
right.
Walters is always inviting the audience in, to share the music
and the joy of performance instead of presenting the
film as an objet d'art for the audience's delectation (Minnelli).
And in those moments when the movie is not "performing,"
e.g., the scene in the restaurant where Garland tells Lawford
that she is in love with Astaire, Walters has the camera hold
them in a two-shot that grows increasingly tight as the camera
moves in, as if it were squeezing the emotions out of the
frame -- Walters provides moments of emotion and character
rather than banal dialogue scenes that only serve to move the
plot to the next musical sequence.
And in this viewing, when Miller asks Astaire to dance in
front of Garland, I was struck by the intense eroticism of the
scene, as if Astaire were rising to have sex with Miller one last
time to make sure he was really over her. The more I watch
Walters, the richer his films reveal themselves to be.
Brian
24890
From: "Blake Lucas"
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:50pm
Subject: Re: Patrick Dewaere blakelucaslu...
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Hadrian" wrote:
>
> I just saw Serie Noir, and was blown away by Patrick Dewaere's
performance. I
> haven't enjoyed, and been consistently surprised by watching an
actor's face for
> every microexpression this much since Cary Grant in His Girl Friday.
Give a good
> actor a good script, and he can move the world! It makes me want to
rewatch the
> Bertrand Blier films, cause I had no idea...
>
> there's very little available...
>
> Hadrian
I don't know if it's available now or if you've seen it, but he is
especially wonderful in Blier's Beau Pere. I hope you can see that if
you haven't. A terrific actor. This was tragic...
24891
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:46pm
Subject: Re: The New Look hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Blake Lucas"
wrote:
>
> That "expand message" option is the first thing that annoyed me too
As a reguler user of that option I have found that clicking Messages on
the left gets you what Exapnd used to.
24892
From: "Richard Modiano"
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:57pm
Subject: Re: Powell/Pressburger + Feminist journals tharpa2002
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Charles Dauth"
wrote:
"What is their usual mumbo-jumbo? I have never found feminist
writing to be any more jargon filled than other critical discipline.
I
think one of the greatest feminist authors -- bell hooks -- is a
model
of clarity, intelligence, and communication."
Second that Brian. I also like bell hooks, and found her collection
of film criticism "From Reel to Real" very engaging. However, she's
not popular with some of the people on this list.
As for journals, "Camera Obscura" is still very provocative. "51%"
is a good local feminist poetry magazine. And thanks to the old NYC
feminist paper "Majority Report" I was able to get my FBI file when
they published instructions for making FOIA requests (there was
nothing in any of the other radical newspapers of the day.)
Richard
24893
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:56pm
Subject: Re: Powell/Pressburger + Feminist journals hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
>
> Does anyone here read feminist journals? Is anyone here
> a "feminist" (whatever that may mean in this day and age)?
Yes to both - my reading on Theory of Serial Killers led me inevitably
to feminist writers on the subject - the earliest being Jane Caputi -
whose thesis (which has undergone various modifications) can't be
overlooked: Most serial sex murders are committed by men against women.
The next most common victim is young men, also targeted by men. This
doesn't rule out female serial killers, but the crime seems to be the
specialty of men vis a vis their objects of desire.
You want to argue with a firebrand like Caputi pretty regularly, when
she undercuts herself by overkilling (sic) on a thesis so obvious that
my grandmother could prove it. On the other hand, you can at least
understand what she's saying, unlike some theorists (feminist and
otherwise) who have tackled the subject!
24894
From: "Richard Modiano"
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:02pm
Subject: Calling All Rockers tharpa2002
It's a little late in the day, and I know that Richard Brooks didn't
make anyone's list but this item from the poet Luis Campos may be of
interset to people in the Los Angeles area:
"Calling all rockers!
Tomorrow [that is, today] Sunday at 5 p.m. at the Egyptian theater,
there'll be a 50th anniversary celebration of the classic
film "Blackboard Jungle," which starred Glenn Ford, Anne
Francis, Vic Morrow, Sidney Poitier, Richard Kiley, Paul
Mazursky, Jamie Farr... and my brother Rafael. Poitier,
Mazursky & Farr are going to be there & will discuss the
film after the showing; the moderator will be Glenn Ford's
son Peter. Also there will the remaining members of Bill
Haley & the Comets, who played the film's theme, "Rock
Around the Clock." Many other actors you're familiar with
will be there & I'm sure Rafael's spirit will be dancing in
the aisles, as only he could do it. I hope to see you then!
Luis"
24895
From: Matt Teichman
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:06pm
Subject: Re: Patrick Dewaere bufordrat
Blake Lucas wrote:
>I don't know if it's available now or if you've seen it, but he is
>especially wonderful in Blier's Beau Pere. I hope you can see that if
>you haven't. A terrific actor. This was tragic...
>
>
A tremendous film, and a tremendous performance. _Beau-pere_ is
something of an "odd one out" in Blier's career, an ode to 50s
melodrama. There is a lovely Region 2 DVD of it, but alas, no English
subtitles. The novel from which it was adapted is great too; probably
Blier's tightest, although I do love the raw, unedited rants of _Existe
en blanc_ and _Les Valseuses_ (the book).
Ok, I can't resist; here's a lovely passage from the beginning of
_Beau-pere_ (the book) on the car accident:
"Les circonstances exactes de l’accident, j’ai renoncé à les connaître.
Certains témoins prétendent que le camion roulait trop vite, d’autres
que Martine aurait refuse la priorité. Peu importe. C’était un grand
carrefour de banlieue et la chaussée était glissante. Quant à la
bagnole, inutile de vous dire qu’elle était pourrie. Ça faisait six mois
qu’on parlait de changer les pneus, de réparer les freins, et on avait
jamais le pognon pour le faire. Le camion, lui, était neuf, costaud,
massif. Et Martine l’a vu trop tard. Probablement une absence, un coup
de fatigue, un coup de bourdon. Elle a enfoncé la pédale de frein, les
roues se sont bloquées et elle est partie en dérapage incontrôlé sur les
pavés luisants. C’est ce qu’on appelle l’effet-luge. Elle a rebondi
contre le camion et s’est mise à tournoyer sur elle-même. C’est ce qu’on
appelle l’effet-toupie. Puis elle a commence à emplafonner des voitures
en zigzag, une à gauche, une à droite, une au milieu qui arrivait. C’est
ce qu’on appelle l’effet-billard. Et puis elle s’est immobilisée contre
une borne lumineuse, qui s’est éteinte, et elle est descendue de voiture."
Blier opts for a mode of address that is dreary and melancholic, but
which also takes a step back to make fun of the incidents it recounts.
Stunning.
And a prelude to the sort of thing we get in _Trop belle pour toi_,
which can't figure out if it's a melodrama or a BMW commercial.
-Matt
24896
From: "Fred Patton"
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:14pm
Subject: Re: Patrick Dewaere fred_patton
It was released by Wellspring in R1 with English subs, but maybe it's
gone OOP.
Fred Patton
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Matt Teichman wrote:
> A tremendous film, and a tremendous performance. _Beau-pere_ is
> something of an "odd one out" in Blier's career, an ode to 50s
> melodrama. There is a lovely Region 2 DVD of it, but alas, no English
> subtitles. The novel from which it was adapted is great too;
> -Matt
24897
From: Matt Teichman
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:29pm
Subject: Re: Beau-pere (was: Patrick Dewaere) bufordrat
That one is out of print, and I'm tempted to say good riddance--the
transfer rivals that of a bad kung-fu DVD (PAL-to-NTSC ghosting and so
forth), and the subtitles drift out of sync halfway through the film.
Better than nothing, I suppose, but doesn't Fox Lorber have any pride?
-Matt
Fred Patton wrote:
>It was released by Wellspring in R1 with English subs, but maybe it's
>gone OOP.
>
>Fred Patton
>
>
24898
From: "Brian Charles Dauth"
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:31pm
Subject: Re: Powell/Pressburger + Feminist journals cinebklyn
Richard wrote:
> However, she's not popular with some of the people
on this list.
Progressive thinkers often go from being outlaws to
conventional wisdom without ever stopping off at
"popularity."
I am suprised though, since she writes about how films
can either subvert the status quo or support it, which
would seem to be in alignment with the notion of an
auteur who controls the attitude of her film toward the
culture (and its tropes) in which the film is produced and
where it is presented.
Brian
24899
From: "Zach Campbell"
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:43pm
Subject: Re: Powell/Pressburger + Feminist journals rashomon82
Richard, Brian:
> > However, she's not popular with some of the people
> on this list.
>
> Progressive thinkers often go from being outlaws to
> conventional wisdom without ever stopping off at
> "popularity."
Speaking personally, I like bell hooks' progressive thought, but find
her writing style atrocious and difficult to follow (if not to read).
I'm open to hearing defenses, perhaps a larger justification for her
writing the way she does (passive voice, textual examples chosen--to
my eyes--as if out of thin air).
--Zach
24900
From: LiLiPUT1@...
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:44pm
Subject: Re: Recent Warhol film experience scil1973
For whatever it's worth, I have projected dozens of films. And my BA is in
Film, not Film Studies. I spent four years making film. Film not video (well,
some video but nowhere near as much as film). I've shot, edited, optically
printed, sound mixed and projected films, mostly my own. But the only one of those
activities I've performed over the last decade-plus is projecting and only
very sporadically. So basically, I can't remember precisely how to work a
projector. I suppose I could figure things out face-to-face with one.
But all that's besides the point. I DID ask the projectionist to fix the
problem. And again, she assured me, falsely, that that was the proper way HORSE
should be projected.
Now I imagine one might think it was appalling film scholarship on my part to
let it slide. Well, I'd never seen HORSE before. And it's not like there are
stacks of literature on the film. Even if there were, though, I know that much
of the writing on Warhol's films is rather poor. Someone on the Frameworks
list, I believe, called EMPIRE the most misdescribed film ever or something to
that effect. I've not seen EMPIRE but after seeing many Warhol films (and yes,
yes, projected on film...even in Chicago at times and the only reason I'm
confessing this here is because I've already confessed this in other public
forums), I'm inclined to believe it (although I find that the problem is more often
a failure to describe rather than an incorrect description). At the very
least, I DID say something to the projectionist about it. But I imagine that some
people on this list will still find me shamefully uneducated.
(Side note: I saw HORSE after being at school for eight hours, three of which
were spent in a film class. When I got home three hours after that - another
film was shown with even more projection problems - I had a mountain of film
essays to read before my film class at 9:30 am the next morning. Again, for
whatever's it's worth.)
One more thing: I took 8 years of French and lived in Montréal for two years.
Can I read French easily? Along with the adequacy of my film scholarship,
I'll leave that to others to decide.
David, I feel more than a little trepidation in telling you what I thought of
HORSE. Undoubtedly, some people on this list will think I have no right to
pronounce on the film after such a counterfeit screening. But what the hell.
I know frustration is part of the Warhol film experience. But I wish the
sound was better recorded. Or rather, I wish I could hear the poorly recorded
sound as well as others obviously can. People were laughing at lines that gathered
too much crud by the time they reached my ears (these are the wages of rock
'n' roll, no doubt). And the second reel was definitely taxing to sit through.
But I really dug how the film augmented the homoeroticism of the western
(very THE BIG SKY, this one) not so much by displaying more explicit gestures but
through an obsessive gaze at them. It's like an irrational enlargement of the
scene when Kirk Douglas and Dewey Martin meet for the first time. And I had no
idea Tosh Carillo was a Master Sadist. Further confuses the notion of
authorship in these films.
HORSE and a few other Warhol titles were shown in conjunction with a visit by
the great Douglas Crimp. He gave a lecture on the Warhol-Tavel collaboration
as a non-collaboration. I wish he drew out the implications of his ultimate
point which was about the sheer queerness of their modus operandi. The
every-queer-for-him/herself vibe seems to feed into American individualism and
capitalism, thereby comprising the queerness of the enterprise. But still, an
intriguing talk.
Sorry if this post sounds so defensive. But I'm defending my film
scholarship, after all.
Kevin John
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