Home Film
Art
Other: (Rants, Obits)
Links About
Contact
a_film_by Main Page
Posts From the Internet Film Discussion Group, a_film_by
This group is dedicated to discussing film as art
from an auteurist perspective. The index to these files of posts can be found at http://www.fredcamper.com/afilmby/ The purpose of these files is to make our posts more accessible, for downloading and reading and to search engines.
Important: The copyright of each post below is owned by the
person who wrote the post, and reproducing it in any form requires
that person's permission.
It is possible to email the author of any post by finding a post
they have written in the a_film_by archives at
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/a_film_by/messages and
emailing them from that Web site.
25601
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:01pm
Subject: Re: Centinela, Alerta! hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Patton"
wrote:
>
> Technically, yes:
>
> http://www.dvdgo.com/product.asp?
> catgid=19&list=14&prodid=3803&typeproduct=1&dvd=¡Centinela,+alerta!
>
> but apparently only Spanish language and no subtitles.
It's a musical, and the plot isn't terribly complicated. Here's a
summary to encourage buyers: Bunuel based the script on stage musical
about soldiers adopting an unwed mother and her baby.
At the beginning there's a party in the country where an upperclass
cad from the city spots an innocent local girl, whom he seduces. Cut
to the soldiers bivuoaced in a courtyard - lot's of "People's Army"
metaphors straight out of the old musical - where the hero
(Angelillo, a Communist tenor) meets the girl. His sidekick (played
by the actor who later played the blind man's sidekick in Viridiana)
gets locked in a chicken coop for killing the rooster whose crowing
has been waking the soldiers up too early.
Cut to the city, where Angelillo has used money he made singing to
buy the litle mom a cigar store. His sidekick is the shoeshine guy -
when a beautiful woman sits down and asks for a shine he says the
line later given to Clementi in Belle de jour - "Whatlovely legs -
too bad you only have two." The upperclass cad returns a la Crime of
M. Lange and makes trouble (he has lost his money and tries to extort
it from the little mom) but is vanquished easily, I forget how.
Angelillo married the girl.
Very Frente Popular, with some lovely scenes of festivities where the
soldiers mingle with the populace - you'll see the Gremillon touch.
The fighting had already started in the hills around Madrid when
Bunuel was editing - he could hear the gunfire in the editing room.
25602
From: "Fred Patton"
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:16pm
Subject: Re: Centinela, Alerta! fred_patton
Great, my simultaneous, extraneous post served some purpose, if it
teased out the subsequent details. I intend to pick up the other
Gremillion item as well, La Dolorosa, which I know next to nothing
about. A drama apparently, and without subs. Not much more of
Gremillion's output seems to be available: REMORQUES / LE RECIF DE
CORAIL and POUR UN SOU D'AMOUR on DVD from France, and a few others as
SECAM VHS: LUMIERE D'ETE, GUEULE D'AMOUR, CIEL EST A VOUS LE,
L'ETRANGE MADAME X, and PATTES BLANCES which is also released as an
NTSC VHS. I am most anxious to see REMORQUES, LUMIERE D'ETE and CIEL
EST A VOUS LE, particularly for Gremillion's approach to sound.
Fred Patton
25603
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:24pm
Subject: Re: Re: Centinela, Alerta! cellar47
"Lumiere d'ete" is a masterpiece. "Remoques," "Gueule
d'Amour" and "Pattes Blanches" are quite teriffic.
Paul Vecchiali is crazy about Gremillion.
--- Fred Patton wrote:
>
> Great, my simultaneous, extraneous post served some
> purpose, if it
> teased out the subsequent details. I intend to pick
> up the other
> Gremillion item as well, La Dolorosa, which I know
> next to nothing
> about. A drama apparently, and without subs. Not
> much more of
> Gremillion's output seems to be available: REMORQUES
> / LE RECIF DE
> CORAIL and POUR UN SOU D'AMOUR on DVD from France,
> and a few others as
> SECAM VHS: LUMIERE D'ETE, GUEULE D'AMOUR, CIEL EST A
> VOUS LE,
> L'ETRANGE MADAME X, and PATTES BLANCES which is also
> released as an
> NTSC VHS. I am most anxious to see REMORQUES,
> LUMIERE D'ETE and CIEL
> EST A VOUS LE, particularly for Gremillion's
> approach to sound.
>
> Fred Patton
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
25604
From: Matt Teichman
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:14pm
Subject: Re: Centinela, Alerta! bufordrat
hotlove666 wrote:
>Very Frente Popular, with some lovely scenes of festivities where the
>soldiers mingle with the populace - you'll see the Gremillon touch.
>The fighting had already started in the hills around Madrid when
>Bunuel was editing - he could hear the gunfire in the editing room.
>
>
You certainly know how to entice. How did Bunuel hook up with Gremillon
(or should I just wait for your book to come out)?
I second David on _Remorques_ and _Gueule d'amour_. _Lumiere d'ete_
I've not seen.
-Matt
25605
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:23pm
Subject: Re: Centinela, Alerta! hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Patton"
wrote:
>
> Great, my simultaneous, extraneous post served some purpose, if it
> teased out the subsequent details. I intend to pick up the other
> Gremillion item as well, La Dolorosa, which I know next to nothing
> about. A drama apparently, and without subs. Not much more of
> Gremillion's output seems to be available: REMORQUES / LE RECIF DE
> CORAIL and POUR UN SOU D'AMOUR on DVD from France, and a few others
as
> SECAM VHS: LUMIERE D'ETE, GUEULE D'AMOUR, CIEL EST A VOUS LE,
> L'ETRANGE MADAME X, and PATTES BLANCHES which is also released as
an
> NTSC VHS. I am most anxious to see REMORQUES, LUMIERE D'ETE and
CIEL
> EST A VOUS LE, particularly for Gremillion's approach to sound.
>
> Fred Patton
Those are three of the most important. Gremillon himself is as
important as Renoir, but he made (and finished) fewer films and never
had a film that made him internationally famous, like Grand Illusion.
Consequently his work is unknown here. He studied music and sometimes
composed the music for his films. Apparently his documentaries are
also quite good, but I've never seen them. What's unique about him -
apart from various technical comments I could make(his use of natural
light, for instance) - is what Bernard Boland called his ability to
summon up the metaphorical meaning of what he is filming without any
heavy-handed pointing: The image itself becomes a
metaphor "naturally" - for example the way scenes of festivities in
Centinela, Alerta! (a film he basically phoned in) turn an old stage
musical into a metaphor for the Popular Front just by how they're
shot and edited. In that respect he is like an alternative Bresson -
much less severe, more "popular," but every bit as alchemical when it
comes to articulating meaning with images in a way that is
specifically cinematic, owing nothing to literature. He is a major
filmmaker waiting to be discovered here, but it's not all that easy
to find his work even in France. Madame X, which has probably never
been subtitled, is arguably Michelle Morgan's best film, if you can
get hold of it - but the three you list at the end of your post are
the ones to start with.
25606
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:33pm
Subject: Re: Centinela, Alerta! hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Matt Teichman
wrote:
> hotlove666 wrote:
>
> >Very Frente Popular, with some lovely scenes of festivities where
the
> >soldiers mingle with the populace - you'll see the Gremillon
touch.
> >The fighting had already started in the hills around Madrid when
> >Bunuel was editing - he could hear the gunfire in the editing room.
> >
> >
> You certainly know how to entice. How did Bunuel hook up with
Gremillon
> (or should I just wait for your book to come out)?
>
> I second David on _Remorques_ and _Gueule d'amour_. _Lumiere
d'ete_
> I've not seen.
>
> -Matt
Based on his experience watching how Thalberg ran MGM after making
L'Age d'Or, Bunuel had started a studio, Filmofono, in Spain before
the Civil War that produced four films before shutting down when the
fascist revolt started. (He co-directed or "indirectly directed" all
of them but kept his name off them except as writer because they were
very commercial stuff, like what he did later in Mexico. (He had
planned all along to make films he would sign when he had the studio
on a solid financial footing, probably starting with Wuthering
Heights, which he ended up making in Mexico, starting from the script
he had co-written many years before.) He knew Gremillon, a fellow
Communist, from Paris and invited him to direct Centinela for chump
change. Gremillon accepted because he loved Spain. Whenever he was
sleeping off a hangover after a night of carousing, Bunuel directed,
but neither of them put their names on it. The first two Filmofonos,
also available at dvdgo.com, are also quite interesting, but
Centinela is the only one where he was working with a filmmaker of
his own caliber.
25607
From: "samfilms2003"
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:33pm
Subject: Re: Kagemusha samfilms2003
> I haven't seen it lately, but the Japanese version is much superior
> to the export version so it's good that it's finally available in the
> US if only on home video. Japanese cinephiles also found it to be a
> much better picture than RAN in spite of the last minute casting
> change.
How much longer / what is different in the uncut version ?
I prefered Ran after seeing them both in the theater on US
release (Ran more than once) but do remember all those
triangles of figures, interesting. I'd take another look of the
DVD becomes available locally.
-Sam
25608
From: "Richard Modiano"
Date: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:51pm
Subject: Re: Kagemusha tharpa2002
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "samfilms2003" wrote:
How much longer / what is different in the uncut version ?
I prefered Ran after seeing them both in the theater on US
release (Ran more than once) but do remember all those
triangles of figures, interesting. I'd take another look of the
DVD becomes available locally.
i believe the Japanese release is 3 hours and I think the US version
is 2 1/2 hours. One sequence not in the US version involves Nobunaga
dispatching his personal physician (Shimura) to an audience with
Shingen to see if his rival has actually recovered. Other scenes
involved branch member of Shingen's clan. I haven't seen the movie
since 1993 when there was a revival of that movie and RAN at the of
MADA DA YO's release. Until I saw this complete version I also
preferred RAN.
The color for the US version of KAGEMUSHA wasn't as good as the
domestic print, but the color for both domestic and export prints of
RAN was about the same (and nothing was cut.) Maybe Kurosawa had
more control over the export release of RAN than he had over
KAGEMUSHA.
The screenplay for KAGEMUSHA was published in Japan and illustrated
with Kurosawa's opaque water color paintings. Takeda Shingen is
rendered in the likeness of Katsu Shintaro who, as is well known, was
fired and replaced by Nakadai at the last minute. I wonder if the
Criterion release has any of this material?
Richard
25609
From: Craig Keller
Date: Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:09am
Subject: Re: Re: Kagemusha evillights
On Wednesday, April 13, 2005, at 05:51 PM, Richard Modiano wrote:
> i believe the Japanese release is 3 hours and I think the US version
> is 2 1/2 hours.
Yes -- 2h 40m to be exact... I'll reply at greater length about
specific impressions quite soon, just no time at the moment.
> One sequence not in the US version involves Nobunaga
> dispatching his personal physician (Shimura) to an audience with
> Shingen to see if his rival has actually recovered.
Sort of -- if I recall, Shimura is a higher-up in the inner circle of
Shingen's outside-of-the-narrative-POV "lord-emeritus" father, and one
of the Benedictine monks in Nobunaga's own circle happens to be a
physician. He's sent with Shimura (as a kind of benevolent proxy for
the Nobunaga clan -- unbeknownst to Shimura that the info will filter
back through the monk to Nobunaga? - I can't remember) to carry out the
health examination, but what the pretext is for the sudden health
check-up actually is, I'm hazy on at this moment -- it might simply be
that given the monk's offer to carry out a checkup, Shingen's father
wants to seize the opportunity to be assured his son's health is
steady, given the rumors flying about.
> Other scenes
> involved branch member of Shingen's clan. I haven't seen the movie
> since 1993 when there was a revival of that movie and RAN at the of
> MADA DA YO's release. Until I saw this complete version I also
> preferred RAN.
There's a long and extraordinary Noh sequence (maybe not as long as the
one in 'Late Spring,' but close) that I'd be surprised to learn was
included in its entirety in the U.S. cut, although it very well might
have been.
> The screenplay for KAGEMUSHA was published in Japan and illustrated
> with Kurosawa's opaque water color paintings. Takeda Shingen is
> rendered in the likeness of Katsu Shintaro who, as is well known, was
> fired and replaced by Nakadai at the last minute. I wonder if the
> Criterion release has any of this material?
Yes. There's a feature on the second disc wherein across 43 minutes or
so, the entire film is "played out" solely through the consecutive
appearance of the watercolor paintings, arranged in (narrative)
chronological order. I haven't watched this yet, so can't comment
further. The full-color 45-page booklet includes one watercolor on
each left-side/verso page. (Actually, it's more like "the top page of
the spread," because the booklet is designed to be held sideways, and
the pages turned upward.) Very handsome, beautiful reprints.
On the 19-minute new interview with Coppola and Lucas, the former
remarks that the reason Katsu Shintarô was fired was because he
insisted on setting up his camcorder to have an assistant capture all
the direction AK gave him, so that he could later use it as a visual
aid in the acting classes he taught. AK found this unacceptable,
Shintarô was unwilling to budge, and as a result he was shit-canned.
There's a rather strange moment at the end of the interview, where
Coppola has been talking up a storm about how wonderful it was to make
this film, and what a privilege to work his hero, that he starts
hemming and hawing and rambling to the effect of: "Well, it's just kind
of strange, I don't know, you see these old films, maybe it's just me,
you see these old films in a particular genre that a director has made
his mark with, a master filmmaker, throughout his career, and it might
just be me, but when you see some of those films and they're already
"older movies" the first time you see them, 'Seven Samurai,' 'Throne of
Blood,' 'Sanjuro,' and then you see a new film, made by the same
director, which happens to be in the same genre as the ones in which he
already made his mark to the world and on your own mind -- you might be
like, well, this is great, but it's another variation on something we
already know -- of course maybe it's just because something has to have
some time between when it came out and when you can revisit it -- and
it could very well be on the level of those old ones."
And on that depressing note, in which Coppola in less words (actually,
a lot -more- words) opines that he wasn't -completely- happy at the
time with what his clout helped to finance, the interview ends. Of
course it's every bit as great as many of Kurôsawa's "past hits." I
know for a fact Coppola has high esteem for 'Red Beard,' which is
certainly an interesting and at times brilliant film, but probably
overall the worst Kurôsawa I've seen -- an opinion reinforced by a
screening right before popping in 'Kagemusha.'
craig.
25610
From: "Tom Sutpen"
Date: Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:09am
Subject: Re: Marx tasutpen
Online Now Send IM
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Keser" wrote:
> "A small piece of news in today's "Libération." Serge Bromberg
> (Lobster Films) has uncovered an as yet unknown snippet of the Marx
> Brothers' "Animal Crackers" (1930). It's a rehearsal scene where
> Harpo is bald, without his famous wig. And... the sequence is in
> color! It will be shown in Paris in July at the next "Retour de
> flammes" manifestation, celebrating Lobster Films' first 20 years."
>
> Samuel, you can see (and download) this footage here:
> http://www.sabucat.com/?pg=samples
>
> It's very short indeed, but fascinating!
*****
It's short, yes. Fascinating, yes. And undoubtedly well-preserved (it
looks as though it got the "Becky Sharp" overhaul). But . . . if it's
not exactly freshly unearthed (the website references its appearance
in a 5 year old TCM documentary), why is it being presented at this
festival as though it were? Or is this its first screening before an
overseas audience, perhaps.
A minor point, undoubtedly, but minor points do become vexing after a
time.
Tom "Yes" Sutpen
25611
From: "Richard Modiano"
Date: Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:51pm
Subject: Re: Kagemusha tharpa2002
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
wrote:
>
"On the 19-minute new interview with Coppola and Lucas, the former
remarks that the reason Katsu Shintarô was fired was because he
insisted on setting up his camcorder to have an assistant capture all
the direction AK gave him, so that he could later use it as a visual
aid in the acting classes he taught. AK found this unacceptable,
Shintarô was unwilling to budge, and as a result he was
shit-canned."
That's the story I heard in Japan. Katsu was at the height of his
popularity then and moreover had a bad boy reputation. He kept the
famous geisha Iwasaki Mineko as a misstress until she got fed with
his antics and dumped him.
as for Coppola's remarks, I don't think he understood what Kurosawa
was doing in KAGEMUSHA. Sounds like he wanted a repetition of of
Kurosawa's jidai geki movies and got something else. This was
Kurosawa's first color period movie and was an oppertunity for him to
extend his style. In my view Kurosawa treated modern stories and
period pictures differently. He was a much more subtle stylist then
people give him credit for.
I also thought that AKAHIGE/RED BEARD was a dead end, and Coppola's
negative criticism is more apropos of that film than KAGEMUSHA. But
I don't agree that RED BEARD was his worst film; IMO SCANDAL was the
weakest.
Richard
25612
From: MG4273@...
Date: Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:18pm
Subject: Tag Gallagher on Sirk nzkpzq
There is a terrific article by Tag Gallagher on Douglas Sirk in the latest
issue of Senses of Cinema. Most a_film_by-ers will find it enlightening!
Mike Grost
25613
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:55pm
Subject: Re: Sirk/Fassbinder sallitt1
> Thanks to David and others for the Fassbinder recommendations. I had
> heard before that "Berlin Alexanderplatz" was interesting "formally."
> I'll see it if I can.
I love ALEXANDERPLATZ, but I don't see any reason for you to throw 15
hours of your life at it. The selection of Fassbinder films you've seen
is pretty good - you've probably got the picture. - Dan
25614
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:09pm
Subject: Re: Early Fassbinder [Re: Sirk/Fassbinder] sallitt1
> Fassbinder was
> no humanist, although I don't find him completely cynical
> either. I don't think he failed to elicit or express his
> sympathy for the protagonist in The Merchants of Four Seasons,
> or The Stationmaster's Wife, or Mother Buster Goes to Heaven.
> There is plenty of sympathy even for the scheming, manipulative
> bitch types in many (but not all) of his films.
I think Fassbinder cares about people. He is quite bleak, but not casual
about the suffering he depicts.
The word "humanism" to me connotes positive values associated with the
individual, and also a rejection of religious or other transcendental
value systems in favor of a human-based set of values. In his bizarre
way, Fassbinder films things as if there is some greater metaphysical
principle than the broken lives he's depicting. But there's a big blank
where a belief system ought to be. I could handle a description of him
as quasi-religious or quasi-nihilist - some weird combo of the two.
> In that short interview, Fassbinder claimed that he first
> saw Sirk's film before shooting The Merchants of Four Seasons.
But what about the wonderful PIONEERS OF INGOLSTADT, right before
MERCHANT? I see the transformation already underway there. - Dan
25615
From: Adam Lemke
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:15pm
Subject: Re: Sirk/Fassbinder moviemiser412
To go with this discussion regarding Sirk/Fassbinder I¹ve noticed that
Haynes¹ ³Far From Heaven² has been brought up several times. I¹m curious to
hear some impressions of Ozon¹s ³Water Drops on Burning Rocks.² Granted,
Ozon¹s film is a bit different as he was working from a Fassbinder play, it
still raises an interesting question of channeling a filmmaker and the
pros/cons of working in someone elses cinematic language. Other worthy
examples include von Trier doing Dreyer on Medea... And what about Spielberg
doing Kubrick in A.I.?
Best,
Adam
PS. My first post here... Have enjoyed the eloquent discussion here
immensely.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
25616
From: "Brian Dauth"
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:09pm
Subject: Mankiewicz's "The Quiet American" cinebklyn
I watched the new dvd of TQA last night
and it is a good transfer. Also noticed
how Mankiewicz made the material his own.
1. In the central section -- Fowler's
mindscreen recalling the events that lead
up to tqa's murder -- tqa just appears in
scenes like an apparition. Mankiewicz
conveys the sense that tqa was a force
that disrupted Fowler's life with
unwelcome intrusions, forcing him to make
choices (Mankiewicz films are always
concerned with issues of autonomy).
2. The Communists staging a theater piece
so Fowler would help them. Once again in
Mankiewicz, life is understood as a variety
of theater.
3. Phuong not going back to Fowler. Mankiewicz
never let women be male trophies -- think of
the endings of "Cleopatra" and "Dragonwyck"
where women escape male control.
4. Vigot's explanation that the Communists
killed tqa because he offered a choice, a third
way. Again, the emphasis is on autonomy and what
I call "pivots" and Deleuze "forkings" in
Mankiewicz's narratives.
5. The scene where Fowler goes back and forth
about betraying tqa. Rohmer picks up on this
when his characters vacillate over whether or
not to touch Claire's knee or sleep with Maud.
6. Location photography was good and shows
Mankiewicz was as good with exteriors as with
interiors.
Brian
25617
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:20pm
Subject: Re: Sirk/Fassbinder cellar47
--- Dan Sallitt wrote:
>
> I love ALEXANDERPLATZ, but I don't see any reason
> for you to throw 15
> hours of your life at it. The selection of
> Fassbinder films you've seen
> is pretty good - you've probably got the picture. -
Well I disagree because in "Berlin Alexanderplatz" the
formal and thematic ideas of the other films are
carried through to a different level. Doblin's book is
central to Fassbinder's life. He read it when he was
quite young, and longed to play the lead in a film
version. But when the time came for him to make the
film he was far too out of shape to play the lead. And
that turned out to be a good thing as Gunther
Lamprecht (in an amazing performance) allows
Fassbinder to place and replace his ideads about the
character of Franz Bieberkopf in a number of differect
contexts.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
25618
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:25pm
Subject: Re: Sirk/Fassbinder cellar47
--- Adam Lemke wrote:
I¹m curious to
> hear some impressions of Ozon¹s ³Water Drops on
> Burning Rocks.² Granted,
> Ozon¹s film is a bit different as he was working
> from a Fassbinder play, it
> still raises an interesting question of channeling a
> filmmaker and the
> pros/cons of working in someone elses cinematic
> language.
Actually I find Ozon's "Criminal Lovers" much closer
to Fassbinder than "Water Drops on Burning Rocks" --
which is a cute stunt, but nothing more.
Other worthy
> examples include von Trier doing Dreyer on Medea...
Feh!
> And what about Spielberg
> doing Kubrick in A.I.?
>
That's another story. I suspect others on the list
would disagree with me but "A.I>" is pure Spielberg.
Kubrick passed on the film because he wasn't able to
make an actual "Mecha" to suit his purposes. So he
passed it on to Spielberg who cast the uncanny Haley
Joel Osment and the currenlty woefully underrated Jude
Law.
I think it's his best film.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
25619
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:33pm
Subject: Re: Sirk/Fassbinder hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein wrote:
>
> --- Adam Lemke wrote:
> I1m curious to
> > hear some impressions of Ozon1s 3Water Drops on
> > Burning Rocks.2
It's one of the Ozons I like. I don't like all of them. Don't forget the earlier case
of this - the Straubs' Die Bruatigm.,.., whis contains a condensed version of a
play (not by Fassbinder) w. Fassbinder in the starring role - The Sickness of
Youth. Definitely one of the best Straubfilms.
>
>
> > And what about Spielberg
> > doing Kubrick in A.I.?
>
> That's another story. I suspect others on the list
> would disagree with me but "A.I>" is pure Spielberg.
Disagree - it's Kubrick's story and production design.
>
> I think it's his best film.
Agree.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
25620
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sirk/Fassbinder cellar47
--- hotlove666 wrote:
>
>
> Disagree - it's Kubrick's story and production
> design.
> >
Be that as it may, Kubrick would NEVER have made a
film so Jewish.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
25621
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:31pm
Subject: Re: Sirk/Fassbinder jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>>
> Actually I find Ozon's "Criminal Lovers" much closer
> to Fassbinder than "Water Drops on Burning Rocks" --
> which is a cute stunt, but nothing more.
>
I would call it grotesque rather than cute. It had a promising
beginning (first act?) but the subsequent foolery totally turned me
off. I would agree that "Criminal lovers" is much better, although I
didn't much care for it. And I hated "8 Women" -- another
vapid "stunt".
JPC
25622
From: "Noel Vera"
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:42pm
Subject: Critic After Dark: A Review of Philippine Cinema (how to order) noelbotevera
It's available now, with a beautiful still from Lino
Brocka's "Orapronobis" (Fight for Us, 1989) on the cover. Here's a
link to order it in Singapore:
http://www.bigo.com.sg/theshop/books/NVcritic.html
Overseas customers have to email for details--you might have to pay
for shipping and handling, sorry.
Manila readers might want to wait--a substantially different edition
is in the works with UP Press.
25623
From: "Brian Dauth"
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:12pm
Subject: Joseph L. Mankiewicz Profile in Senses of Cinema cinebklyn
Since Noel has posted about his book, I am going
to post about my profile of Mankiewicz that went
up on the Senses of Cinema website this week.
The url is
http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/directors/05/mankiewicz.html
During the writing of this piece (my first
published), I joined AFB. I just want to thank
the list members for the discussions they have had
with me, since I have no doubt that these threads
sharpened my critical skills and helped to make my
piece much better than it would have been without
them.
Brian
25624
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:57pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sirk/Fassbinder cellar47
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
And I hated "8 Women" --
> another
> vapid "stunt".
Oh it's a vapid stunt alright, but I loved seeing
Danielle Darrieux again, plus Huppert camping it up,
and Fanny Ardant in that great dress. And the ye-ye
number was cute. But to me Ozon is by and large the
French Almodovar (ie. He's gay but so what?)
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
25625
From: "Noel Vera"
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 0:09am
Subject: Re: Joseph L. Mankiewicz Profile in Senses of Cinema noelbotevera
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Dauth" wrote:
>
> Since Noel has posted about his book, I am going
> to post about my profile of Mankiewicz that went
> up on the Senses of Cinema website this week.
>
> The url is
>
> http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/directors/05/mankiewicz.html
>
Cool. I've saved it to read later.
25626
From: "Noel Vera"
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 0:24am
Subject: Re: Kagemusha noelbotevera
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Modiano"
wrote:
> I don't agree that RED BEARD was his worst film; IMO SCANDAL was the
> weakest.
>
> Richard
I liked "Red Beard;" it had a charming idealism that I guess won't
appeal to every viewer.
As to worse Kurosawa, there are a few. The ending to "The Bad Slept
Well" is a real violent attempt at tear-jerking; "One Wonderful
Sunday" had a Tinkerbell-style climax; and "Sanshiro Sugata 2" recalls
the kind of gimmicks Bruce Lee was thinking of doing in "Game of
Death" (judo vs. boxing) only less suitable.
25627
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:02am
Subject: Re: Sirk/Fassbinder jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
> And I hated "8 Women" --
> > another
> > vapid "stunt".
>
> Oh it's a vapid stunt alright, but I loved seeing
> Danielle Darrieux again, plus Huppert camping it up,
> and Fanny Ardant in that great dress. And the ye-ye
> number was cute. But to me Ozon is by and large the
> French Almodovar (ie. He's gay but so what?)
>
> Fringe benefits, David, mere fringe benefits. But I'm thrilled
to see you say "He's gay but so what?"
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
25628
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:11am
Subject: Re: Tag Gallagher on Sirk jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> There is a terrific article by Tag Gallagher on Douglas Sirk in the
latest
> issue of Senses of Cinema. Most a_film_by-ers will find it
enlightening!
>
> Mike Grost
Tag tells me that the only reason he put up the piece on Senses was
for the frame enlargements that made his point and they decided to
drop them out without consulting him; so he has asked them to remove
his piece unless they reintroduce the emlargements. This sounds like
typical Tag to me and also totally right, although typical Tag and
totally right do not necessarily mesh all the time.
JPC
25629
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:40am
Subject: Re: Re: Sirk/Fassbinder cellar47
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
> >
> > Fringe benefits, David, mere fringe benefits.
> But I'm thrilled
> to see you say "He's gay but so what?"
> >
WellI could have invoked the "Nuclear Option" -- aka.
Joel Schumacher -- but that would have been unfair.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
25630
From: "Noel Vera"
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:18am
Subject: Re: Sirk/Fassbinder noelbotevera
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> WellI could have invoked the "Nuclear Option" -- aka.
> Joel Schumacher -- but that would have been unfair.
Just saw the latter half of his Phone Booth. Cheesus Christ, what a
terrific little film this could be if someone less hysterical was
directing--the scriptwriter, for example.
25631
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:53am
Subject: The Turning Gate hotlove666
I've now seen all 3 Hong Sang-Soo films at Cinefile, whose Korean
expert tells me he's "burned out" on Asian for the moment, so it's a
good time to sum up. All 3 are sublime: The Turning Gate, The Day the
Pig Fell in the Well, The Virgin Stripped Bare (aka Oh, Soo-yung). The
writing - including dialogue, Brian - is right up there with Chekhov.
It's unfair to make these comparisons, but his use of the Triangle
style is much richer than anyone else's (naming no names). You don't
notice the sameness of the framing because so much else is varying from
shot to shot that you simply take it for granted, the way you would
psychological montage. Watching his color work I was reminded of the
thing even I like about the Straubs' last puzzling film, the Visit to
the Louvre: Through Cezanne they praise colorists of the Roccoco period
and succeed in reproducing the vivacity of their canvases as if one
were seeing them for the first time. Hong Sang-Soo's color films -
especially The Turning Gate - have that vivacity while using a more
naturalistic palette.
I think Turning Gate is later than the other two - it's sort of the
opposite of Oh, Soo-yung: similarly graceless hero SPOILERS START
different outcomes. The guy in Turning Gate is alternately touching and
exasperating, but there is a moment where the second girl realizes that
he may be a bit simple-minded that is wonderful. I love the way he
recycles the consoling aphorism that was used on him by a friend who
was cutting is throat when he has to console his friend and the first
girl for his near-criminal ineptitude. The male ego takes almost as big
a drubbing in this one as in Honeymoon. But that really was the second
goirl's cheating husband on the paddleboat.
25632
From: MG4273@...
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02am
Subject: Bay of Angels (Jacques Demy) nzkpzq
La Baie des anges / Bay of Angels (Jacques Demy, 1963) is a much better film
than its current rather wishy-washy reputation would indicate. Just saw it on
DVD. The film's mise-en-scene is superb. There is a near constantly moving
camera, in the tradition of Demy's idol, Max Ophuls. The film keeps picking out
gorgeous black-and-white compositions, and linking them up through graceful,
complex camera movements. The opening tracking shot during the credits, along
the beach at Nice that gives the film its name, is just superb.
The film also has a strong storyline. I have to agree with Andrews Sarris'
reservation about "The Young Girls of Rochefort" that it lacks the narrative
urgency of Demy's earlier work, such as this film. (I also agree with David E
that Grover Dale shows plenty of oomph in his Rochefort dance numbers.) This
viewer, at least, could not wait to see what was coming next in Bay of Angels.
The hero here keeps sneaking out on respectable society, to take part in a
hidden activity that causes him to develop a whole secret life. Could this be an
allegory of or metaphor for something? Nah!
The hero and his father live in a back room behind the father's clock shop,
here, just like Deneuve's family in "The Umbrellas of Cherbourg". And the glass
walled areas at the bank where the hero and his friend work recall the big
windowed central snack bar (???) in Rochefort.
There are suggestions here as well of class structure restrictions. The hero
and his friend have there nose pressed up against an upper middle class world
that is denied them.
However, Bay of Angels is not a tract. It is a dazzling entertainment that
will fascinate any lover of visual style in film.
Mike Grost
25633
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:13pm
Subject: Re: Bay of Angels (Jacques Demy) cellar47
--- MG4273@... wrote:
> La Baie des anges / Bay of Angels (Jacques Demy,
> 1963) is a much better film
> than its current rather wishy-washy reputation would
> indicate.
Really? Utterly entranced by it when I first saw it in
1964 and I've been in its thrall ever since.I
can'timagine anyone finding anything "wishy-washy"
about it.
Just saw it on
> DVD. The film's mise-en-scene is superb. There is a
> near constantly moving
> camera, in the tradition of Demy's idol, Max Ophuls.
> The film keeps picking out
> gorgeous black-and-white compositions, and linking
> them up through graceful,
> complex camera movements. The opening tracking shot
> during the credits, along
> the beach at Nice that gives the film its name, is
> just superb.
> The film also has a strong storyline. I have to
> agree with Andrews Sarris'
> reservation about "The Young Girls of Rochefort"
> that it lacks the narrative
> urgency of Demy's earlier work, such as this film.
> (I also agree with David E
> that Grover Dale shows plenty of oomph in his
> Rochefort dance numbers.) This
> viewer, at least, could not wait to see what was
> coming next in Bay of Angels.
In many ways its a reworking of bressonian themesin
another for. Simply substitute gambling for theft and
you've got "Pickpocket."
However there's nothign Bressonian about Jeanne
Moreau.
> The hero here keeps sneaking out on respectable
> society, to take part in a
> hidden activity that causes him to develop a whole
> secret life. Could this be an
> allegory of or metaphor for something?
Yah Think?
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
25634
From: "Zach Campbell"
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:51pm
Subject: Re: The Turning Gate rashomon82
Hotlove:
> All 3 are sublime: The Turning Gate, The Day the
> Pig Fell in the Well, The Virgin Stripped Bare (aka Oh, Soo-yung).
I have managed to miss those latter two, but I love TURNING GATE as
well as THE POWER OF KANGWON PROVINCE and WOMAN IS THE FUTURE OF
MAN. I suspect Hong's emergence on the scene will end up, film
historically, as a Major Event. Him, Apichatpong, and a handful of
others whom most of us probably don't know yet--they'll be the major
new figures of this century's beginning.
The slipperiness that pervades Hong's work comes from very
naturalistic circumstances, and has a contrapuntal tension with the
repetition. (It's as though, in his work, you're seeing the same
things over and over again, but can never quite remember what it is
you saw. That's how I feel, anyway.) It's interesting that Hong's
films tend to revolve around characters taking time away from work
(or school), and in their leisurely moments they yearn desperately
for something: a sense of closure, a reconciliation with the past,
gratification through sex. In TURNING GATE when the protagonist is
grunting during sex, "How do you like my moves?" there's a whole
charade of human interaction that Hong demolishes. It's in the most
intimate and vulnerable moments that Hong has his characters act
like asses ... and yet he's not making any moral lessons about these
characters so much as getting to the heart of what makes them (and
by extension us) tick. He's not a person with many illusions, I
think.
In his own way Hong is filling part of the gaping void that Ozu once
inhabited. There's a comparably subtle and moving acknowledgment of
social life's hardest and most bitter facts in both their cinemas.
And let's not forget the role of alcohol.
> The male ego takes almost as big a drubbing in this one as in
> Honeymoon.
Male egos are like an overpopulated species that Hong delights in
hunting down.
--Zach
25635
From: "Fred Patton"
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:42pm
Subject: Re: The Turning Gate fred_patton
Hong is one of my favorites working today. Neither the three Bill K.
has mentioned, nor Woman Is the Future of Man, or my personal
favorite, The Power of Kangwon province, have been a let-down to
what's been increasingly an affair of high expectations. Hong's
predilection for symmetry takes shape in different ways through the
films, an typically unobtrusively, with the exception being VIRGIN,
but in this case, it seems to work a bit like a decoy with everything
else going on. Hong's dialogue is so subtle that it really
crystalizes on repeat viewings. And understatement reigns.
I'd taken such extensive notes on KANGWON to try to understand why I
found it so impressive, and this effort seemed to offer no end in
sight besides that of my cramped hand. One of the qualities I
particularly liked was that was the seemingly haphazard slice-of-life
feel, a really sort of free flowing sketch, when in fact, on the
other levels, this couldn't be further from the truth. One is always
re-seeing things without at first realizing it, because the vantage
or inflection shifts. Hong gets much mileage out of trivial details,
imbuing them with a sort of sublimal resonance, but also, it can be a
sort of de-familiarizing tactic because the little details can be so
telling about a personality when carefully examined.
I don't know how much innuendo I may miss because of translation, but
in English translation, his language is highly multi-layered all the
way around. I REALLY don't like the stories Hong takes on in his
films, nor so much the characters in them, but what he does with it
all is pure magic. I would love to here more about psychological
montage, and for someone to write a nice critical study of Mr. Hong.
On the subject of DVD availability, which with Hong is especially
justifiable, given the need to pause, rewind, pause, rewind, out of
Korea in region 3, there is THE DAY THE PIG FELL INTO A WELL, THE
VIRGIN STRIPPED BARE BY HER BACHELORS (yes, they renamed it), WOMAN
IS THE FUTURE OF MAN, and THE POWER OF KANGWON PROVINCE (the aspect
ratio is not correct, but it should still be seen). All of these
releases have English subs. yeondvd.com and koreandvds.com are nice
places to pick these up. Out of France, there's La Trilogie Hong Sang-
soo which offers KANGWON in proper 1.66 aspect ratio, along with
VIRGIN and PIG. Only French subs here, but the best way to see
VIRGIN, short of theatrically. Also, the other two Hong films should
be out now in a two film set from France, with French subs once again.
Hong's framings in KANGWON seemed very telling, but I really need to
revisit the film closely in proper aspect ratio.
Fred Patton
25636
From: "Fred Patton"
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:10pm
Subject: Re: The Turning Gate fred_patton
I would like to say a quick ditto to Zach's post #25634 as well,
including the praise for Weerasethakul. I found the remarks about the
recurring context of time-off from work/school and the
closure/reconciliation with the past to be insightful and eloquent.
Fred Patton
25637
From: "Michael E. Kerpan, Jr."
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:42pm
Subject: Re: The Turning Gate michaelkerpan
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Patton" wrote:
> Hong is one of my favorites working today.
Ditto.
> Hong's dialogue is so subtle that it really
> crystalizes on repeat viewings. And understatement reigns.
I would say that this is equally true for dialogue and images. Repeat
viewing is absolutely essential. I started re-watching "Virgin"
(selectively) as soon as I finished watching it the first time -- and
I watched in full again the next day. The only other film I've done
this for is Kore'eda's "Distance".
> I REALLY don't like the stories Hong takes on in his
> films, nor so much the characters in them, but what he does with it
> all is pure magic.
I am pretty puritanical -- perhaps only Hong could get me to watch
films that center so much around sex. ;~}
On availability
"Turning Gate" is also out on DVD in Korea -- with English subtitles.
I actually think the Korean release of "Virgin" looks pretty good. It
does have a mastering flaw that requires owners of regular TVs to lie
and claim they have a widescreen one, but once you do this -- it looks
fine.
Another problem with the Korean "Pig" DVD is the fact that the English
subs are sometimes nearly incoherent. Apparently this DVD was not
authorized by Hong -- and he dislikes it a lot. This deserves a much
better treatment on DVD.
One can also get the Korean DVDs from YesAsia.
MEK
25638
From: "Fred Patton"
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:19pm
Subject: Re: The Turning Gate fred_patton
I have a question, since writing, whether on paper, in the sand, or
with tea leaves tends to imply something in Hong. In THE POWER OF
KANGWON PROVINCE there is something that's written beside Jisook's door
that's not translated, which she reads then erases. On the French disc
it is translated, "Attendons en reprenant notre souffle" without an
accent on the E in souffle. Is it to be interpreted literally we are
waiting to take back our souffle dish? And/or does it having anything
to do with breath? Since I know who wrote it, it's left me for a bit of
a loop. The French translation could even be off. Life at the mercy of
subtitles...
Fred Patton
yesasia.com is good, and the R3 Turning Gate disc is beautiful. I must
have forgotten to mention it.
25639
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:24pm
Subject: Re: The Turning Gate jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Patton"
wrote:
>
> I have a question, since writing, whether on paper, in the sand,
or
> with tea leaves tends to imply something in Hong. In THE POWER OF
> KANGWON PROVINCE there is something that's written beside Jisook's
door
> that's not translated, which she reads then erases. On the French
disc
> it is translated, "Attendons en reprenant notre souffle" without
an
> accent on the E in souffle. Is it to be interpreted literally we
are
> waiting to take back our souffle dish? And/or does it having
anything
> to do with breath? Since I know who wrote it, it's left me for a
bit of
> a loop. The French translation could even be off. Life at the
mercy of
> subtitles...
>
> Fred Patton
>
Fred, "souffle" does mean "breath". The sentence means: "Let's
wait while catching our breath." Of course I have no idea whether
it's an accurate translation or not! JPC
> yesasia.com is good, and the R3 Turning Gate disc is beautiful. I
must
> have forgotten to mention it.
25640
From: "Fred Patton"
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:52pm
Subject: Re: The Turning Gate fred_patton
Thanks, that translation works perfectly! I'm ashamed it eluded me.
Fred
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
> Fred, "souffle" does mean "breath". The sentence means: "Let's
> wait while catching our breath." Of course I have no idea whether
> it's an accurate translation or not! JPC
> > yesasia.com is good, and the R3 Turning Gate disc is beautiful. I
> must
> > have forgotten to mention it.
25641
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:53pm
Subject: Re: Bay of Angels (Jacques Demy) hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> La Baie des anges / Bay of Angels (Jacques Demy, 1963) is a much
better film
> than its current rather wishy-washy reputation would indicate> The
film also has a strong storyline. I have to agree with Andrews
Sarris'
> reservation about "The Young Girls of Rochefort" that it lacks the
narrative
> urgency of Demy's earlier work, such as this film.
Reseen recently in a new print on a big screen, Young Girls of
Rochefort is one of the all-time topnotch untouchables of cinema, but
I never even try to distinguish among the films of Demy, one of my
five favorite directors, except to regret the two turkeys near the
end.
The narrative pull of Bay of Angels is worth talking about because it
is, screenplay-wise, a real high-wire act: The only thing driving the
story is chance. I saw/resaw a lot of Vegas films recently for an
article, and was struck by how, even when gambling was a plot element
(as in The Cooler), the writers always needed something else to prop
it up. While Demy's characters go through emotional changes in
response to their changing fortunes of the table, which are also part
of the plot, there is no other external change driving it: just the
roulette wheel. And that was damn hard to do.
> The hero here keeps sneaking out on respectable society, to take
part in a
> hidden activity that causes him to develop a whole secret life.
Demy was very secretive about his lifestyle choice.
25642
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:54pm
Subject: Re: Bay of Angels (Jacques Demy) hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
Bay of Angels.
>
> In many ways its a reworking of bressonian themesin
> another for. Simply substitute gambling for theft and
> you've got "Pickpocket."
Bresson was Demy's favorite director.
25643
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: Bay of Angels (Jacques Demy) cellar47
--- hotlove666 wrote:
>
> Demy was very secretive about his lifestyle choice.
>
>
>
>
Until he made "Lady Oscar" and fell in love with David
Bombyck. Then he was "out" all over the damned place.
In fact it so shocked Michel Legrand that he turned
down composing "Une Chambre en Ville." But they made
up at the last for "Trois Places Pour le 26th."
Had he and David not seroconverted he would surely
have left Varda.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
25644
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: Bay of Angels (Jacques Demy) cellar47
--- hotlove666 wrote:
>
> Bresson was Demy's favorite director.
>
>
>
>
Boy Howdy was he ever! "Les Dames du Bois de Boulogne"
was a constant touchstone for him.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
25645
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:54pm
Subject: Re: Vittorio De Seta sallitt1
> I caught a gorgeous 35mm screening of De Seta's 1961 B&W feature
> Banditi A Orgosolo yesterday. It was my first encounter with the
> man's work and I found it pretty incredible: a very simple, almost
> Bressonian (I do realize that's a 'loaded' term on the forum right
> now) story of a shepherd who's framed for theft and forced to hide out
> on top of a mt. with his flock and younger brother.
>
> This is obviously Neo-Realist: the relationship b/w the man and his
> brother reminded me of nothing so much as Antonio and lil Bruno in
> Bicycle Thief. But there was something in the rough, rocky terrain of
> De Seta's Sardinia that gave the film some treacherous suspense: in
> some ways it was more like Saura's La Caza or at its most abstract, it
> looked ahead to Gerry.
Yeah, this is a really good film, isn't it? What I like about it is that
it has a strong sense of the mundane that's used very effectively against
the slightly grandiose filming of the landscape. De Seta seems quite
interested in the little chores the actors do while they talk, or how long
it takes them to cross a little field. - Dan
25646
From: Fred Camper
Date: Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:25pm
Subject: Manny Farber fredcamper
Thanks to two friends, one of them Jonathan Rosenbaum, for recommending
an essay on Manny Farber in the April 28 "New York Review of Books" --
which issue reminded me again, not only for this excellent piece but for
others, to renew my lapsed subscription.
I've always been a bit dubious about Farber's criticism because where he
sees his favorite "termite" films as relatively anonymous products, I
see my favorites among them as organized and coherent works of art
controlled by a single maker. But in his essay, Sanford Schwartz argues
that Farber's film criticism is of a piece with his paintings, and
suddenly his writing becomes more interesting as advocacy for a
particular vision of film (like, in a very different way, Kracauer's
"Theory of Film," which I rather like when I don't try to relate it to
what I care about in cinema) that's given resonance by its connection to
his own art. "His goal is an ego-free, centerless, egalitarian realm,"
Schwartz writes, "where the pleasures of shared, everyday, domestic life
are the deepest. It is a realm where the background of a scene in a
movie is as engaging as what is in the foreground...."
I'm still planning to reply on Sirk soon.
Fred Camper
25647
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:23pm
Subject: Re: Manny Farber cellar47
Do you have a link for this article? I can't find it
at the NYRB website.
--- Fred Camper wrote:
> Thanks to two friends, one of them Jonathan
> Rosenbaum, for recommending
> an essay on Manny Farber in the April 28 "New York
> Review of Books" --
> which issue reminded me again, not only for this
> excellent piece but for
> others, to renew my lapsed subscription.
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
25648
From: Fred Camper
Date: Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:40pm
Subject: Re: Manny Farber fredcamper
David Ehrenstein wrote:
> Do you have a link for this article? I can't find it
> at the NYRB website.
It's not on their site. They only post some of their aritcles on their
site. I read it in the print edition, which I highly recommend.
Fred Camper
25649
From: "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
Date: Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:40pm
Subject: Re: Manny Farber dreyertati
Here it is: www.nybooks.com/articles/17956
In the print version, there are two pretty good color reproductions
of Farber paintings.
Jonathan
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> Do you have a link for this article? I can't find it
> at the NYRB website.
>
>
> --- Fred Camper wrote:
> > Thanks to two friends, one of them Jonathan
> > Rosenbaum, for recommending
> > an essay on Manny Farber in the April 28 "New York
> > Review of Books" --
> > which issue reminded me again, not only for this
> > excellent piece but for
> > others, to renew my lapsed subscription.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
> http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
25650
From: Fred Camper
Date: Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:42pm
Subject: Re: Re: Manny Farber fredcamper
Jonathan Rosenbaum wrote:
>
> Here it is: www.nybooks.com/articles/17956
Oops! Thanks, I thought it wasn't there. The color reproductions helped
me since I haven't seen Farber's recent paintings.
Fred Camper
25651
From: Fred Camper
Date: Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:53pm
Subject: Re: Re: Manny Farber fredcamper
Reproductions of three Farber paintings can be found at
http://www.artnet.com/artist/6008/Manny_Farber.html
This includes one of the two illustrated in the New York Review of Books
article, though with a rather different color balance -- thus one of the
two is inaccurate, if not both.
A Web seach will reveal more reproductions of Farber paintings online.
Fred Camper
25652
From: Fred Camper
Date: Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:56pm
Subject: Re: Re: Manny Farber fredcamper
Jonathan Rosenbaum wrote:
>
> Here it is: www.nybooks.com/articles/17956
Oops again. The full text is only available to subscribers to the
electronic edition or if you pay $3.
This issue of the print edition has a bunch of other things worth
reading, as the NYRB usually does.
I should take my own advice and post less often and consolidate all this
info into one post.
Fred Camper
25653
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:00pm
Subject: Re: Manny Farber hotlove666
My Budd is reproduced at Senses of Cinema, along with my article on the
painting, which makes the same points as the article you quote. Farber
certainly liked it, although some people consider it "delirious."
25654
From: MG4273@...
Date: Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:00pm
Subject: Eternal Love (Lubitsch) nzkpzq
"Eternal Love" (Ernst Lubitsch, 1929) showed up unexpectedly on DVD at the
local video store. This was the director's last silent film, and apparently was
long considered lost. Without the director's name on the credits, I would
never have ascribed the film to him. For starters, there is a difference of genre.
This is a romantic melodrama, dealing with the Eternal Quadrilateral (in Tom
Lehrer's phrase), and not the sort of saucy comedy that is the genre of most
of Lubitsch's American films. I had seen "Madame Dubarry" (1920), L's sizzling
drama about the French Revolution, which is full of somewhat similar romantic
melodrama. But that film takes place among the aristocracy, and is full of
historical events. "Eternal Love" is historical, too, but its characters are
simple Swiss villagers in 1806 or so.
Even more importantly, this film is deeply Pictorial in its approach. Shot
after shot offers striking compositions, taking advantage of the picturesque
Swiss village setting, and the mountainous landscape around it. Had never thought
of L as a primarily Pictorialist director. Excellent, lavish craftsmanship
from all involved - director, designer, photographer. Some overhead shots of the
villagers dancing are dazzlingly complex visually too - more like the black
and white Artist's Ball in "An American in Paris" (Minnelli) in their
complexity, than anything I associate with Lubitsch.
The storytelling in "Eternal Love" is gripping. The film sweeps one along,
and is never boring. On the downside is its relentless grimness. Nothing good
tends to happen to these folks, who suffer and suffer in Soap Opera tradition.
Still, most people would find it an absorbing movie experience.
I have never seen anything written about this movie. Weinberg's "The Lubitsch
Touch" barely discusses it, and the text implies that Weinberg had never had
a chance to see it.
A resurrected rarity.
Mike Grost
25655
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:43pm
Subject: Re: Lancelot du lac sallitt1
> Just watched Lancelot du lac (Robert Bresson, 1974). The film is hugely
> impressive, especially in its complex mise-en-scene. But thinking about
> What It All Means is full of challenges. Some questions:
> 1) Why are the knights so murderous to each other? Clearly, they are
> driven jealousy, and a struggle for position. They will kill each other
> at the drop of a hat. This process destroyed the quest for the grail,
> and takes up the whole rest of the film. Does Bresson regard this as an
> anti-war statement? Do the knights represent soldiers, and other people
> who use violence? Nazis? Or do they represent capitalism? Or all human
> beings?
I think that Bresson accepts the fact that people kill each other a lot,
that knights were all about killing, that people back then may have needed
even less justification for killing than we do.
> 4) Joan of Arc's voices tell her to remain a virgin, and not to have
> heterosexual sex at all. Lancelot also hears divine voices, telling him
> not to have heterosexual, adulterous sex with Guinevere. Are these
> voices related in meaning?
Among other things, I'm guessing that those voices serve a narrative
function for old storytellers. Screenwriters in Hollywood used to try
to think up new ways to keep the boy and girl from jumping into the sack
in reel one.
Which shouldn't stop you from evaluating the anti-sex content of the
messages.
> 6) Guinevere says Lancelot's love of her is just an excuse for the men
> to commit violence against each other, not its true cause. Does Bresson
> agree? (I think yes, but cannot prove it.)
I think yes too. An era seems to be coming to an end in this film, and
one love story doesn't seem to be enough to cause it.
- Dan
25656
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:18pm
Subject: Re: Lancelot du lac cellar47
--- Dan Sallitt wrote:
>
> I think yes too. An era seems to be coming to an
> end in this film, and
> one love story doesn't seem to be enough to cause
> it.
>
All of this is true. But I think it should also be
kept in mind that "Lancelot" was a "dream project"
Bresson ruminated over for a long period of time
before actually getting the chance to do it. And
there's no question his ideas about what he wanted to
do with the story changed over time.
As some of you may know, while doing research for my
book "Open Secret" I found an exchange of letters
between Bresson and George Cukor in Cukor's massive
(an incalculably important) file at the Motion Picure
Academy. Cukor saw "Diary of a Country Priest" when it
opened in France, loved it and wrote Bresson -- who
asked him for help in getting an American release.
Cukor obliged. Quite few years later Bresson wrote
again asking Cukor's help in getting in touch with
Burt Lancaster and Natalie Wood --who he wanted to
cast as Lancelot and Guinevere. This was the mid-60's
and Lancaster was starting to move towards making
films in Europe (eg. "The Train") so it wasn't
inconcievable. Likewise Wood, who spoke excellent
French, would have been interested and available. Alas
it never happened but wouldn't that have been
something?
I wrote about this in "Positif" #430, December 1996.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
25657
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:54pm
Subject: Re: Lancelot du lac hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
>
> I think that Bresson accepts the fact that people kill each other a lot,
> that knights were all about killing, that people back then may have needed
> even less justification for killing than we do.
Lancelot came out around the same time as Aguirre, Wrath of God. The two
were grouped by Oudart in an article that portrayed them as the farthest
extreme of the Retro Mode, films which allowed the bourgoisie to admire its
beautiful corpse in the mirror of past ruling classes on the downgrade. The
common point between LdL and Aguirre, apart from knights in armor, is that
these exemplars of feudal power (in the case of Aguirre, feudal power already
out of time as well as out of place) go mad and destroy themselves by
embodying that concept of soevreignity and taking it to the limit.
25658
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:05pm
Subject: Re: Lancelot du lac hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
>
> I think that Bresson accepts the fact that people kill each other a lot,
> that knights were all about killing, that people back then may have needed
> even less justification for killing than we do.
Lancelot came out around the same time as Aguirre, Wrath of God. The two
were grouped by Oudart in an article that portrayed them as the farthest
extreme of the Retro Mode, films which allowed the bourgoisie to admire its
beautiful corpse in the mirror of past ruling classes on the downgrade. The
common point between LdL and Aguirre, apart from knights in armor, is that
these exemplars of feudal power (in the case of Aguirre, feudal power already
out of time as well as out of place) go mad and destroy themselves by
embodying that concept of soevreignity and taking it to the limit.
25659
From: MG4273@...
Date: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:41pm
Subject: Re: Costumes (was: Lancelot du lac) nzkpzq
Each of the knights in the film has their own special shape on top of their
helmet. Lancelot's is a perfect sphere. Others have radiating straight lines,
or leaf shapes, executed in metal. Each of the knights has different color
saddle blankets, too, which leads to some of Bresson's most dazzling imagery, as
the blankets are put on, one after another in quick succession. And one can
always tell Lancelot's tent - his bed had the red stripes.
I do not know "why" Bresson is doing this - but it is an important aspect of
the film's style.
In comic books, each character has their own look, which never changes. This
is of course true of the super-heroes, who always wear a fixed costume, but it
is also true of the other, non-super-powered ones. Jor-El always wears a
sunburst on his Kryptonian clothes, Clark Kent wears a blue suit with red tie,
Pete Ross wears a white shirt with a black sleeveless sweater. Similarly, in
Lancelot, each character has their own unique costume. Lancelot's black, shiny
armor is different from the gleaming silver of all the other knights.
In Lancelot, one feels each character has a place in some scheme - that each
has a role to play in the pattern that makes up the world of the Round Table.
Such a unique role is symbolized by their clothes. There is something
consoling about this. This is a tiny group of people, all of whom know each other
deeply.
Mike Grost
I am trying to imagine Burt Lancaster in knight's armor, with a perfect
sphere on his helmet. Lancaster DID have a huge success in "The Flame and the
Arrow" (Tourneur), which also had a medieval background. One wonders if Bresson was
a fan of this film.
25660
From: MG4273@...
Date: Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:19pm
Subject: Rag and Bone (James D. Parriott) nzkpzq
"Rag and Bone" (James D. Parriott, 1997) is back on American cable TV, on the
Encore Mystery Channel. If you can get it - don't miss it. This is a ghost
story, but NOT a horror movie - no gore, gross-out or even scare tactics.
Instead, it leans toward moody atmosphere, with a ravishing use of color. Think of
"The Red Desert", only with a ghost and a mystery plot. I think this will
eventually come to be considered a Major Film, for its fine visual style, and
eerie, beautiful sense of place (New Orleans).
This film was clearly intended as a TV pilot. Parriott's two other most
important works were pilots for TV series: Voyagers! (1982) and Misfits of Science
(1985). Both of these were science fiction.
Mike Grost
25661
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:51pm
Subject: Re: Rag and Bone (James D. Parriott) hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
>Parriott's two other most
> important works were pilots for TV series: Voyagers! (1982) and Misfits of
Science
> (1985). Both of these were science fiction.
>
> Mike Grost
haven't seen either, but Misfits has a big cult.
Have you seen any of my friend Ken Kwapis's work, Mike? He did the pilots
and several episodes of The Larry Sanders Show, Malcolm in the Middle
(very Tashlin), Bernie Mac, Julia Dreyfuss and the current The Office (US
version). He also does films - his best is Dunston Checks In, a wonderful film
for all ages that melds Grand Hotel with an ourangatan. It won the Golden
Palm at the Children's edition of Cannes; Fred, the ourangantan, won Best
Actor, outpolling his adversary in the film, Rupert Everett. (Sorry, David.)
Haven't seen Ken's latest (indie) feature, Sexual Relations - a contemporary
remake of La Ronde - but am hopeful. He's a film sophisticate who has more
freedom when he works in tv.
25662
From: "Aaron Graham"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 0:55am
Subject: Re: Rag and Bone (James D. Parriott) machinegunmc...
> Have you seen any of my friend Ken Kwapis's work, Mike? He did the
pilots
> and several episodes of The Larry Sanders Show, Malcolm in the Middle
> (very Tashlin), Bernie Mac, Julia Dreyfuss and the current The Office
(US
> version). He's a film sophisticate who has more
> freedom when he works in tv.
After looking up his other credits on imdb, I noticed that Kwapis also
directed two exceptional episodes of the short-lived series Freaks and
Geeks. The one entitled Tests and Breasts (a group of teenagers
discover the mechanics of sex through a porn film) is fantastic.
25663
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:31am
Subject: Re: Costumes (was: Lancelot du lac) jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
There is something
> consoling about this. This is a tiny group of people, all of whom
know each other
> deeply.
>
> Mike Grost
Somewhat like people on a_film_by. We all wear distinctive costumes,
I am sure, that identify us for what we are.
JPC
25664
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:35am
Subject: Re: Rag and Bone (James D. Parriott) jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
Think of
> "The Red Desert", only with a ghost and a mystery plot.
Doesn't this describe every Antonioni film?
25665
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:36am
Subject: Waiting for FC jpcoursodon
I wonder when Fred is coming out with his response Re: Sirk.
25666
From: Adrian Martin
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:06am
Subject: re: Sirk article apmartin90
Tag Gallagher's Sirk article has indeed been pulled from the Internet.
But isn't that the same text that appeared in FILM COMMENT some years
back? Of course, without frame enlargements then also.
Adrian
25667
From: Fred Camper
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:32am
Subject: Re: Waiting for FC fredcamper
jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> I wonder when Fred is coming out with his response Re: Sirk.
It's mostly done, but is over 2,000 words, and I have to finish it and
go over it. Keep in mind that it's not easy making a living as a
freelance writer; virtually every day there's some sort of work to do,
and many days are all work.
Fred Camper
25668
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:54am
Subject: Re: Sirk article hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Adrian Martin wrote:
> Tag Gallagher's Sirk article has indeed been pulled from the
Internet.
> But isn't that the same text that appeared in FILM COMMENT some years
> back? Of course, without frame enlargements then also.
>
> Adrian
I haven't done a line-by-line comparison, but black melodrama/white
melodrama etc. sure rings a bell. It was the cover article. Those were
the days!
25669
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:54am
Subject: Re: Waiting for FC hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Fred Camper wrote:
> jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> >
> > I wonder when Fred is coming out with his response Re: Sirk.
>
> It's mostly done, but is over 2,000 words, and I have to finish it
and
> go over it. Keep in mind that it's not easy making a living as a
> freelance writer; virtually every day there's some sort of work to
do,
> and many days are all work.
>
> Fred Camper
I haven't had a day off in ten years.
25670
From: "Saul"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:49am
Subject: Re: Waiting for FC asitdid
Online Now Send IM
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666" wrote:
>
>
> I haven't had a day off in ten years.
Who wants one? They're never gonna stop making films -- there's no end
of articles to write -- there's no end of reviews to write -- there's
not enough hours in the day, (and there are those scattered few spent
sleeping) -- every minute off we fall behind a little bit more
25671
From: Adrian Martin
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:08am
Subject: re: Waiting for FC apmartin90
Bill K wrote: "I haven't had a day off in ten years."
Join the club !!!!!
25672
From: "jess_l_amortell"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:46am
Subject: Re: Sirk article jess_l_amortell
> > Tag Gallagher's Sirk article has indeed been pulled from the
> Internet.
It can still be found, at http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/05/35/sirk.html
> > But isn't that the same text that appeared in FILM COMMENT some years
> > back?
Essentially, yes; there's a (somewhat unformatted) copy of the original at http://web.archive.org/web/20031020221917/http://www.arts.auckland.ac.nz/ftvm/202/res_sirk1.html
25673
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:29pm
Subject: Re: Sirk article jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jess_l_amortell"
wrote:
>
> > > Tag Gallagher's Sirk article has indeed been pulled from the
> > Internet.
>
> It can still be found, at
http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/05/35/sirk.html
>
>
> > > But isn't that the same text that appeared in FILM COMMENT
some years
> > > back?
>
> Essentially, yes; there's a (somewhat unformatted) copy of the
original at
http://web.archive.org/web/20031020221917/http://www.arts.auckland.ac
.nz/ftvm/202/res_sirk1.html
Tag tells me that it will be re-posted, with the frame
enlargements, in the next issue of senses. JPC
25674
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:32pm
Subject: Re: Waiting for FC jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Saul" wrote:
>
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > I haven't had a day off in ten years.
>
> Who wants one? They're never gonna stop making films -- there's no
end
> of articles to write -- there's no end of reviews to write -- there's
> not enough hours in the day, (and there are those scattered few spent
> sleeping) -- every minute off we fall behind a little bit more
You'll burn yourself out, Saul! Ah, youth! I think I'll go take a
nap now... JPC
25675
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:13pm
Subject: Sirk : The Musical cellar47
Here's a review in the New York Times
http://theater2.nytimes.com/2005/04/19/theater/reviews/19ligh.html
of the new musical version of "Light in the Piazza."
Ben Brantley invokes both Douglas Sirk and Todd Haynes
in his remarks -- even though the movie was directed
by Guy Greene and produced by Arthur Freed (of all
people.) It seems that Sirk has come to stand for the
essence of melodrama.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
25676
From: MG4273@...
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 0:35pm
Subject: Re: Sirk : The Musical nzkpzq
Sirk's image has changed. Ever since "Far From Heaven", the public now views
Sirk as a filmmaker who lavished visual style on melodrama, especially the use
of color. Reviews of that film tended to promote this view of Sirk.
Was watching "Indiscreet" (Donen) with a group of non-cinephile friends last
Christmas. We were all wowed by the color-coordinated clothes and design at
the big party sequence (Cary & Ingrid square dancing, etc). One said, "It's just
like a comedy version of Douglas Sirk!"
This is clearly not the Whole Sirk Story. But it is certainly a lot closer to
The Truth than the 30 years of mis-representing Sirk as a sniggering promoter
of tongue-in-cheek Camp.
Mike Grost
25677
From: MG4273@...
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 0:57pm
Subject: Boetticher's visual style in The Rise and Fall of Legs Diamond nzkpzq
Read Bill Krohn's piece on Manny Farber's "My Budd" was great admiration.
This is a terrific article (in a 2001 Senses of Cinema).
But I had qualms about some of Manny Farber's critical ideas quoted in that
article. Farber describes Boetticher as a visually minimalist director, who
typically sets his characters up in frontal, shallow space.
Now I know saying the dreaded "M word" (Minimalism) to me is like saying
"Inflation" to Alan Greenspan. But still, always thought Boetticher was a visually
complex stylist, one whose images are in fact quite hard to describe. Went
back and re-watched "The Rise and Fall of Legs Diamond" to try to see if what is
on the screen can be put into words. Am only partly successful so far - but
noticed a few things.
The hero of "The Rise and Fall of Legs Diamond" (Budd Boetticher, 1960) shows
an affinity for odd-shaped spaces. In the film's second shot, he moves under
a gigantic, jutting portico on a city street, a cubical area jutting out at an
odd angle. Soon, he is pushing his brother into a strange region behind a
newsstand, out of the way of a robbers' shoot-out. Later, he will use a roof to
commit a robbery. The strange trapezoidal skylight through which Legs descends
is featured. And he will retrieve the jewels from his girlfriend's purse while
in a curtained kitchenette. We also see Legs inside a grilled cage in the
prison visiting room.
When he is waiting by the elevator at Rothstein's, he takes up a polygonally
shaped angle of the room, different from the other henchmen. (Shades of Fritz
Lang, who loved polygonal regions.) And soon Legs is inside the elevator,
another space that is always shown from outside, making it look both more complex,
and emphasizing its spatial, box like proerties as a whole.
When going to kill henchman Moran on the fire escape, Boetticher gives an
overhead view of the alley. The alley turns at a polygonal corner. The whole
alley image forms an irregularly shaped, giant box. This is one of the most
striking images in the film.
When attacking Jesse White, Legs emerges unexpectedly out of the dumb waiter,
another unusual containing space. When Legs is shot and recuperating in bed,
we see the cavity of the Murphy bed behind him - Legs is essentially in a
different space from everyone else in the room - and an unusual one.
Mike Grost
25678
From: Jesse Paddock
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:22pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sirk : The Musical jesse_paddock
I don't know how much sniggering he would have done, or even if he'd
have been concerned with the degree of campiness in his own work. I
just think melodrama allowed him the widest canvas for his palette of
emotions, some hot, some cool. I came late to his fifties work; the
first Douglas Sirk--umm, excuse me, Detlef Sierck--film I saw was La
Habanera. There's melodrama for you, the icy Swede Zarah Leander
steaming up the coast in front of Fernando Rey-lite Ferdinand Marian.
And yet, it's not quite the same domestic melodrama as something like
All that Heaven Allows. And it actually is a musical, because of
Leander's vocal numbers. But does her teutonic singing push the
proceedings into the realm of camp? I'm not convinced. jp
On 4/19/05, MG4273@... wrote:
> Sirk's image has changed. Ever since "Far From Heaven", the public now
> views
> Sirk as a filmmaker who lavished visual style on melodrama, especially the
> use
> of color. Reviews of that film tended to promote this view of Sirk.
> Was watching "Indiscreet" (Donen) with a group of non-cinephile friends
> last
> Christmas. We were all wowed by the color-coordinated clothes and design at
> the big party sequence (Cary & Ingrid square dancing, etc). One said, "It's
> just
> like a comedy version of Douglas Sirk!"
> This is clearly not the Whole Sirk Story. But it is certainly a lot closer
> to
> The Truth than the 30 years of mis-representing Sirk as a sniggering
> promoter
> of tongue-in-cheek Camp.
>
> Mike Grost
>
>
> ________________________________
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/a_film_by/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
25679
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:24pm
Subject: Re: Boetticher's visual style in The Rise and Fall of Legs Diamond hotlove666
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> Read Bill Krohn's piece on Manny Farber's "My Budd" was great admiration.
> This is a terrific article (in a 2001 Senses of Cinema).
> But I had qualms about some of Manny Farber's critical ideas quoted in that
> article. Farber describes Boetticher as a visually minimalist director, who
> typically sets his characters up in frontal, shallow space.
The anomalous spaces you describe are no doubt part of what Manny likes in
Budd's films - see the interview w. MF and Patricia Patterson reproduced in
the new Negative Space, where they talk about this in The Far Country. The
problem w. the "minimalist' quote is that it's virtually the only statement by MF
on Boetticher in print. The painting is a better critique than that excerpt from a
syllabus, where Budd was being crammed together with directors very unlike
him.
25680
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:04pm
Subject: I Love Melvin (Was: My Literal Mind) sallitt1
> In chronological order:
>
>> (1)Singin' in the Rain
>> (2)I Love Melvin
>> (3)The Band wagon
>> (4)7 Brides for 7 Brothers
>> (5)Funny Face
> (2)The Pajama Game
>
> Hardly original, I know.
I dunno, I LOVE MELVIN doesn't show up on many lists. Does this film have
more of a following than I know about? - Dan
25681
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:32pm
Subject: Remorques (Was: Centinela, Alerta!) sallitt1
> I intend to pick up the other
> Gremillion item as well, La Dolorosa, which I know next to nothing
> about. A drama apparently, and without subs. Not much more of
> Gremillion's output seems to be available: REMORQUES / LE RECIF DE
> CORAIL and POUR UN SOU D'AMOUR on DVD from France, and a few others as
> SECAM VHS: LUMIERE D'ETE, GUEULE D'AMOUR, CIEL EST A VOUS LE,
> L'ETRANGE MADAME X, and PATTES BLANCES which is also released as an
> NTSC VHS. I am most anxious to see REMORQUES, LUMIERE D'ETE and CIEL
> EST A VOUS LE, particularly for Gremillion's approach to sound.
I can't remember where you live, but REMORQUES will be showing at NYC's
French Institute on May 31. - Dan
25682
From: "jess_l_amortell"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:50pm
Subject: Re: Sirk : The Musical jess_l_amortell
> Ben Brantley invokes both Douglas Sirk and Todd Haynes
> in his remarks
There's actually a real auteurist piece in today's Times, though -- Dave Kehr's Errol Flynn column, filled with insights on Walsh and Curtiz.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/19/movies/19dvd.html?
25683
From: "Gabe Klinger"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:07pm
Subject: Cannes Film Festival selections announced gcklinger
Full list @ http://www.festival-cannes.fr/
The title that excites me the most is Seijun Suzuki's PRINCESS RACCOON. I don't know
anything about it, but it's gotta be good. Also, HHH's new one.
Who will win the Palm this year? Maybe Wim Wenders? Kusturica is prez, so who knows...
Gabe
25684
From: Craig M Keller
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:24pm
Subject: Cannes + Cahiers evillights
>Full list @ http://www.festival-cannes.fr/
>
>The title that excites me the most is Seijun Suzuki's PRINCESS RACCOON. I don't know
>anything about it, but it's gotta be good. Also, HHH's new one.
Me too -- musical Zhang Zi-yi-starring follow-up to 'Pistol Opera.' (Only invoking the prior film because the full title of this one is 'Operetta Tanuki-goten' -- Operetta Princess Raccoon.)
In other news, pointed out to me earlier today by Jonathan Takagi, an article in one of this week's Liberations (viewable at the website in the Cinema section) remarks upon the publication of the 600th issue of Cahiers and the included cine-manga edited by Kitano (note that in the forthcoming Cannes's "documentaries on cinema" series a new "Cinema de notre temps" by Labarthe is listed -- dedicated to Cassavetes and Kitano -- not sure if it's just a reincorporation of the old Cdnt episode found in the Criterion J.C. box, or something new); upon a roughly 3000-member increase in French subscriptions to the revue since 2004; upon the fact that Cahiers is going to be hosting regular "Semaines des Cahiers" film-series soon in New York, Tokyo, and elsewhere; and that, also coming soon, the Cahiers website is will be offering complete access to the contents of -every issue- of Cahiers from number 1 up to recent times. Whether it will be free or pay/article remains unclear for the time being -- but this is of course wonderful news either way, and the direction toward which they should have always been headed (and maybe were) with regard to making the website something more than a signpost.
craig.
25685
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:44pm
Subject: Re: I Love Melvin (Was: My Literal Mind) cellar47
--- Dan Sallitt wrote:
>
> I dunno, I LOVE MELVIN doesn't show up on many
> lists. Does this film have
> more of a following than I know about?
It most surely does, Don Weis being a favorite of the
MacMahonists.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
25686
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:44pm
Subject: Re: I Love Melvin (Was: My Literal Mind) jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > In chronological order:
> >
> >> (1)Singin' in the Rain
> >> (2)I Love Melvin
> >> (3)The Band wagon
> >> (4)7 Brides for 7 Brothers
> >> (5)Funny Face
> > (2)The Pajama Game
> >
> > Hardly original, I know.
>
> I dunno, I LOVE MELVIN doesn't show up on many lists. Does this
film have
> more of a following than I know about? - Dan
I don't think it has any following, although Don Weis was a cult
director among French cinephiles back in the fifties/sixties (but
the one they raved about was "The Adventures of Hajji Baba"). I
didn't see any of Weis's movies until the seventies, when i lived in
New York. In my Don Weis entry in "American Directors" I
called "Melvin" exhilarating and I wouldn't change a word of what I
wrote then about it. I can think of very few musicals that give me
more pleasure on repeated viewings -- actually I can't think of any.
Check it out!
JPC
25687
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:50pm
Subject: Re: I Love Melvin (Was: My Literal Mind) jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- Dan Sallitt wrote:
>
> >
> > I dunno, I LOVE MELVIN doesn't show up on many
> > lists. Does this film have
> > more of a following than I know about?
>
> It most surely does, Don Weis being a favorite of the
> MacMahonists.
>
>
> See my post, David....
I can't resist mentioning I LOVE MELVIN's French release
title: CUPIDON PHOTOGRAPHE...
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Make Yahoo! your home page
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
25688
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: I Love Melvin (Was: My Literal Mind) cellar47
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> I don't think it has any following, although Don
> Weis was a cult
> director among French cinephiles back in the
> fifties/sixties (but
> the one they raved about was "The Adventures of
> Hajji Baba").
With the sublime Elaine Stewart and art direction by
Hoynegun-Hune.
Don Weis was Abe Polonsky's a.d. on "Force of Evil."
I
> didn't see any of Weis's movies until the seventies,
> when i lived in
> New York. In my Don Weis entry in "American
> Directors" I
> called "Melvin" exhilarating and I wouldn't change a
> word of what I
> wrote then about it. I can think of very few
> musicals that give me
> more pleasure on repeated viewings -- actually I
> can't think of any.
> Check it out!
>
I second that reccomendation. There's a sequence in a
park that I'm sure Rivette saw as he does a variation
on it in "Huat/Bas/Fragile."
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
25689
From: Peter Henne
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:22pm
Subject: Re: Boetticher's visual style in The Rise and Fall of Legs Diamond peterhenne
Online Now Send IM
Just compare the two Scope westerns, "Ride Lonesome" and "Comanche Station." Both use some of the same locations. But whereas "Ride Lonesome" utilizes rather hard colors and sparse environments--think of the many shots of the riders against simple-shaped brown boulders and unrelieved rocky terrain--"Comanche Station" uses an altogether softer and more lush palette. At a Los Angeles screening of "Comanche Station" in the early '90s, Boetticher himself said he was influenced by French Impressionist painting for the film.
Peter Henne
MG4273@... wrote:
Farber describes Boetticher as a visually minimalist director, who
typically sets his characters up in frontal, shallow space.
Now I know saying the dreaded "M word" (Minimalism) to me is like saying
"Inflation" to Alan Greenspan. But still, always thought Boetticher was a visually
complex stylist, one whose images are in fact quite hard to describe.
Mike Grost
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
25690
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:45pm
Subject: Re: I Love Melvin (Was: My Literal Mind) jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> I second that reccomendation. There's a sequence in a
> park that I'm sure Rivette saw as he does a variation
> on it in "Huat/Bas/Fragile."
>
It's Central Park -- shot on location! (not the Rivette, the Weis).
>
Donald O'Connor should be more famous for this movie than
for "Singin' in the Rain." His roller-skating scene with the little
girl, his duet with Reynolds in her parents' apartment and his
hectic solo in the "Look" photo studios are unforgettable
highlights. Reynolds's great in her opening dream sequence a la "A
Great Lady Gives an Interview." And as a football on the Broadway
stage! And there was Jim Backus as a cynical, borderline sadistic
photographer.
I find the same disarming goofiness in the minor but charming "The
Affairs of Dobie Gillis" in which Debbie Reynolds sings a slow
ballad version of "All I Do Is Dream of You" with Bobby Van (who, in
the middle of another number, exclaims: "It's exactly like a scene
in a musical with Howard Keel!") and a very young Bob Fosse who, in
a very brief (half a minute or less!)number enumerates most of his
latter famous choreographic trademarks. And let's not forget
Kathleen Freeman as "Happy Stella Kowalski and her Schottische Five"!
JPC
JPC
25691
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:58pm
Subject: Re: Re: I Love Melvin (Was: My Literal Mind) cellar47
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> I find the same disarming goofiness in the minor but
> charming "The
> Affairs of Dobie Gillis" in which Debbie Reynolds
> sings a slow
> ballad version of "All I Do Is Dream of You" with
> Bobby Van (who, in
> the middle of another number, exclaims: "It's
> exactly like a scene
> in a musical with Howard Keel!")
This is my cue to sing the praises of another little
MGM musical, "Small Town Girl," which while directed
by Lelie Kardos, and starring Jane Powell and Farley
Granger, comes to life in its musical numbers directed
by Busby Berkeley. This is the one where Ann Miller
does "You Gotta I Hear That Beat" with musicians
coming up through the floor like a Dali canvas. But
the big one is Bobby Van's reprise of his "Take Me to
Broadway" number in which he hops all over the small
town set like a crazed bunny rabbit.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
25692
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:12pm
Subject: Re: I Love Melvin (Was: My Literal Mind) jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> This is my cue to sing the praises of another little
> MGM musical, "Small Town Girl," which while directed
> by Lelie Kardos, and starring Jane Powell and Farley
> Granger, comes to life in its musical numbers directed
> by Busby Berkeley. This is the one where Ann Miller
> does "You Gotta I Hear That Beat" with musicians
> coming up through the floor like a Dali canvas. But
> the big one is Bobby Van's reprise of his "Take Me to
> Broadway" number in which he hops all over the small
> town set like a crazed bunny rabbit.
>
>
> And this is my turn to second the recommendation!. The Bobby Van
hopping sequence is a tremendous Berkeley tour de force filmed in
only three or four shots as I recall, with a constantly moving
crane following Van throughout a complex downtown set. Jane Powell
was as cute as ever and who could be cuter than Farley Granger,
don't you think, David?
Speaking of Berkeley's camera virtuosity, one of his most impressive
sequences was in the underrated (although at times awful) "The
Gang's All Here" with those very long, complex takes in the
opening "Brazil" and "You Discover that You're in New York" numbers
(the first one flows effortlessly into the second one) (also later
in "Lady With the Tutti Frutti Hat"). JPC
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
25693
From: Adrian Martin
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:24pm
Subject: re: I love Melvin apmartin90
Dan, I think most living fans of I LOVE MELVIN form a sub-division of A
FILM BY!!! Apart from David and Jean-Pierre (that duo is always first
on the musicals!), it is a big favourite of mine, and it's also well
liked (if I recall correctly) by Jonathan R, who first brought to my
attention the connection with Rivette's HAUT BAS FRAGILE. Actually,
there is a remarkable commonality of taste on musicals among some
members of this group: like David, I love GOOD NEWS, and like
Jean-Pierre I am wild about that infamous Communist Manifesto THE
PAJAMA GAME, a splendidly inventive film!
I may have told this story before on this list, but one of the oddest
experiences of my life was meeting, in my first year of university at
age 17, a very wild and anarchistic guy who was a founding member of
Australia's punk music movement (this was 1977). He was in my film
class (until he was expelled from the university for
unruly/provocactive behaviour) and his favourite director was ... Don
Weis! About whom he wrote endless unpublished papers, which he duly
handed in for assessment no matter which class he was in: English
literature, sociology, cinema studies ... and naturally, he was almost
always got a 'fail' result!! Such chutzpah!
MacMahonism lives !!!!!
Adrian
25694
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:53pm
Subject: Re: Re: I Love Melvin (Was: My Literal Mind) cellar47
--- jpcoursodon wrote:
Jane Powell
> was as cute as ever and who could be cuter than
> Farley Granger,
> don't you think, David?
>
Arthur Laurents certainly didn't think anyone was
cuter for years.
> Speaking of Berkeley's camera virtuosity, one of his
> most impressive
> sequences was in the underrated (although at times
> awful) "The
> Gang's All Here" with those very long, complex takes
> in the
> opening "Brazil" and "You Discover that You're in
> New York" numbers
> (the first one flows effortlessly into the second
> one) (also later
> in "Lady With the Tutti Frutti Hat").
Yes that's a an absolute eye-popper. The polka-dot
ballet finale is beyond description.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
25695
From: MG4273@...
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:08pm
Subject: Re: I Love Melvin (Was: My Literal Mind) nzkpzq
Have never had a chance to see "I Love Melvin", but really liked Busby
Berkeley's musical numbers in "Small Town Girl" and "The Gang's All Here". Also
enjoyed Bobby Van dancing all over his father's music store in "Small Town Girl".
Van really expressed joy in this film.
A musical that is unexpectedly charming is "Call Me Madam", with Ethel Merman
and Donald O'Connor. This is the only Walter Lang musical I've ever really
liked.
Mike Grost
25696
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:20am
Subject: Re: I love Melvin jpcoursodon
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Adrian Martin
wrote:
He was in my film
> class (until he was expelled from the university for
> unruly/provocactive behaviour) and his favourite director was ...
Don
> Weis! About whom he wrote endless unpublished papers, which he
duly
> handed in for assessment no matter which class he was in: English
> literature, sociology, cinema studies ... and naturally, he was
almost
> always got a 'fail' result!! Such chutzpah!
>
> MacMahonism lives !!!!!
>
> Adrian
Adrian you are unforgivable if you have not collected this guy's
papers on Don Weis! I'm sure they were as goofy as DW's movies, and
as such they should have been preserved -- I mean, a MacMahonien in
Australia?
I would take I LOVE MELVIN on that desert island (or perhaps INDIA
SONG, but more probably the Weis). JPC
PS: Dreaming of a musical version of INDIA SONG with Debbie and
Donald directed by Weis.
25697
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:51am
Subject: Re: Re: I Love Melvin (Was: My Literal Mind) cellar47
--- MG4273@... wrote:
> Have never had a chance to see "I Love Melvin."
Well Mike I've got "I Love Melvin" on laser, so if
you're ever out this way. . .
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
25698
From: "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:32am
Subject: Re: I love Melvin dreyertati
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Adrian Martin wrote:
> Dan, I think most living fans of I LOVE MELVIN form a sub-division
of A
> FILM BY!!! Apart from David and Jean-Pierre (that duo is always
first
> on the musicals!), it is a big favourite of mine, and it's also well
> liked (if I recall correctly) by Jonathan R, who first brought to my
> attention the connection with Rivette's HAUT BAS FRAGILE.
Yes, you recall correctly. It's on my 1000-favorite list. And I'm more
or less equally entranced by Weis's THE ADVENTURES OF HAJJI BABA. J-P
has written well about both films.
25699
From: LiLiPUT1@...
Date: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:57pm
Subject: Australian punk?? (was: I love Melvin) scil1973
So Adrian, who was the Australian punk???
Kevin John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
25700
From: ptonguette@...
Date: Wed Apr 20, 2005 0:57am
Subject: Sidney J. Furie peter_tonguette
I apologize to the group for being so absent from the many interesting recent
discussions. I, too, am eagerly anticipating Fred's forthcoming Sirk post,
though I can very definitely sympathize with the demands placed on freelance
writers. Indeed, the only excuse I have for my lack of recent posting is that
I've simply been incredibly busy.
Anyway, if I may mine the group's collective intelligence and knowledge, I am
curious if anyone is aware of worthwhile auteurist work on Sidney J. Furie.
There aren't entries on him in the usual sources, like "American Directors"
(which makes sense because Furie is Canadian, of course), and I've found
virtually nothing on the Web. Thanks to Fred's incredible HTML efforts, I did
perform a search of our own group and only came up with a few, albeit interesting,
mentions. I'm particularly curious to find "career profiles" of Furie which
tackle his body of work as a whole.
Thanks!
Peter
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
a_film_by Main Page
Home Film
Art
Other: (Rants, Obits)
Links About
Contact