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26401   From: "hotlove666"
Date: Mon May 2, 2005 10:20pm
Subject: Re: Defining "Something Else" (was: Twentynine palms too many)  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, BklynMagus wrote:
> hl666 writes:

>
> > and that includes what is usually
> narrowly described as visual beauty,
> as if that existed by itself, apart from
> meanings.
>
> Okay, now I am lost. For me, visual
> beauty is not a meaning. It may be an
> attribute of a meaning-conveying device,
> but it is not meaning in and of itself.

Colors are a code like any other - or maybe not like any other,
because of their ambiguous relationship to nature. Music is a code.
Language is a code, the master code. But all meanings can't be
translated into language.
>
> > At the same time, being mired in an
> intellectualized version of late Romanticism
> like Barthes, I am inclined to say that
> what matters isn't what a film means, but
> how it means.
>
> But doesn't that send us back to the D.W.
> Griffith/racism bind? We focus on the way
> Griffith "meant" his racism, and give a free
> pass to the racism of the film itself.

It enables us, perhaps, to distinguish between how he meant it and
how James Cruze meant his apologia for US imperialism in Sutter's
Gold. In the CdC period that I cut my teeth on, a film like Birth of
a Nation (or Intolerance, which was actually the object of
a "Rereading") can subvert its own message if it's made by an artist,
not because artists "know better" but because their attempts to put
the message across may be very revealing. The example I like to cite
is Eisenstein's The General Line, which expresses Stalinist ideology
in the form of a fever dream, thus exposing the Stalinist psychosis.

This does not mean, however, that General Line didn't help get a lot
of people killed!

> > I'll stick to the post-structuralist analysis of
> the art object and how it functions.
>
> But doesn't analyzing function also entail an
> analysis of (or at least a passing reference to)
> what the functioning produces?

Sure. The rationale for that, in the eyes of the Tel Quel and Cahiers
groups in the 60s and 70s, was that if form can subvert function
(political function), naive use of film (identification, manicheism,
naturalism) can subvert a good message. So a film made against Bush
(to quote the Godard post that started this) may actually end up
helping him. Thanks to that idea, the Cahiers became the House of
Gotchas for many years.

Recommended reading on post-structuralist analysis of film: In volume
2 of the BFI Cahiers translations, the position statement by Comolli
and Narboni called something like Cinema/ideology/politics, which is
very clear, and the Young Mister Lincoln "Rereading."

This is all theory I have worked through in my own way - I wrote my
own rereading of the Lincoln Rereading, which has yet to be published
because it was too long for the Cahiers Ford issue, and as some of my
recent posts, should have indicated, I'm becoming less sanguine about
gotchas and more bull-headed about stating the obvious. Maybe it's
the political climate, or the wisdom that comes with age.

I no longer believe that Godard's Maoist films were effective
political tools, for example - but I would give two thumbs up to the
way they led to Histoire(s) du cinema, which aren't going to start
any revolutions, but certainly help me get my head out of the box. I
think people interested in making political films politically can
still learn a lot from both groups of films.

Before going to Fortaleza to film the people in Four Men on a Raft I
watched Godard's early films to study how he used sound, and the
technique I devised with Jean-Pierre Duret, the sound man, for doing
the interviews was suggested by Godard's "ear mike" trick when he was
making Two or Three Things. But when Ed Marx and I edited my cut of
the documentary (which the producer nixed, so we did something else
for the release), I was more inspired by Truffaut, strangely enough.
We can learn a lot from both of them.

My political guru (on my bedside table at the hotel in Fortaleza) was
Jacques Ranciere, but that also doesn't show up in the relaease
version. Ranciere is highly recommended - both the writings on
political science and the writings on film, although the latter
aren't translated yet. When Godard was skewering everyone at the
roundtable on Histoire(s)in Locarno, he was pointedly respectful of
Ranciere.

I'm nattering on about It's All True because it recently tried to
come back into my life and was deflected, but it's been on my mind. I
also hope that Kevin and Dan and others who make films will talk
about their own experience. This isn't a group solely for critics!
26402  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Mon May 2, 2005 10:22pm
Subject: Re: Truffaut Films (Was: Twentynine palms too many)  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> > I was more surprised at Adjani's rejection as reported by David than
> > what you go on to say above
>
> As described in the bio, Adjani was like a high priestess of acting
on the
> set, stayed in character, etc. Maybe Truffaut would have had more
luck if
> he'd cast her in the role of a person who has sex. - Dan

She's also a Muslim, you know.
26403  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Mon May 2, 2005 10:25pm
Subject: Re: Golden Age Misunderstood  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, BklynMagus
I know Irving Rapper is not a great
> auteur, but to this day I am tremendously moved
> by "Now, Voyager."


I doubt if you get much argument about that from this group. I
discovered it belatedly via Cavell. It may be a case of David's actress
as auteur at work.
26404  
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Mon May 2, 2005 11:05pm
Subject: Re: Golden Age Misunderstood  jpcoursodon


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666" wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, BklynMagus >
> I know Irving Rapper is not a great
> > auteur, but to this day I am tremendously moved
> > by "Now, Voyager."
>
>
> I doubt if you get much argument about that from this group. I
> discovered it belatedly via Cavell. It may be a case of David's
actress
> as auteur at work.

We don't need a "great auteur" to be moved, and Rapper had a great
script by Casey Robinson and a great cast with Davis, Rains, Gladys
Cooper... he did it again with the same trio -- Davis, Henreid and the
immensely underrated Claude Rains -- in the less-known "Deception",
one of the most memorable of Rains's performances (he is really the
star of the movie, although billed beneath the other two). Rains shows
up in great roles in some of the very best of those Warner Bros. so-
called "women's pictures", most notably Vincent Sherman's superb "Mr.
Skeffington", again with Davis in a bravura performance. Rains is
the "auteur' of those films -- in David's terms -- as much as Davis
is.

JPC
26405  
From: MG4273@...
Date: Mon May 2, 2005 7:45pm
Subject: Re: Notorious and subverting heterosexuality (Was: Golden Age Mis...  nzkpzq


 
In a message dated 05-05-02 16:33:41 EDT, David E. writes:

<< And what Brian is arguing is that hetero men's
emotions are rarely expressed atall. Consider "High
Noon" where Grace Kelly's entire roll consists of
dealing with everything Gary Cooper can't bring
himself to say. It's like a ventriloquist's act and
he's the dummy. Think too of Lauren Bacall's "You
don't have to say anything" speeches to Bogart in both
"To Have and Have Not" and "The Big Sleep" -- two
otherwise very different films. It's an unequal
division of romantic labor. >>

But have also seen similar things with a male lead and his character actor
sidekick. Here it doesn't reflect gender - it pairs a good looking leading man
with a character actor who can do the heavy acting lifting.
In "Follow Me Quietly" (Fleischer), the cop's assistant (Jeff Corey) is
always saying things to his boss like: "You're really obsessed with finding this
killer! You are on the verge of a nervous breakdown! You are about to explode
with tension! You haven't slept in weeks!"
Handsome hero (William Lundigan) "You're right" (looking fresh as a daisy and
ready for a tennis match at the Bevery Hills Country Club)

Mike Grost
26406  
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon May 2, 2005 11:45pm
Subject: Re: Re: Golden Age Misunderstood  cellar47


 
--- jpcoursodon wrote:

>
> We don't need a "great auteur" to be moved, and
> Rapper had a great
> script by Casey Robinson and a great cast with
> Davis, Rains, Gladys
> Cooper... he did it again with the same trio --
> Davis, Henreid and the
> immensely underrated Claude Rains -- in the
> less-known "Deception",
> one of the most memorable of Rains's performances
> (he is really the
> star of the movie, although billed beneath the other
> two). Rains shows
> up in great roles in some of the very best of those
> Warner Bros. so-
> called "women's pictures", most notably Vincent
> Sherman's superb "Mr.
> Skeffington", again with Davis in a bravura
> performance. Rains is
> the "auteur' of those films -- in David's terms --
> as much as Davis
> is.
>
No argument from me on that score. I recall Pauline
Kael saying that Davis had no choice but to shoot
Rains in "Deception." But the reason, which Kael
didn't mention, is that if she failed to do so the
film would be all his.

Rains was a great star, a great actor, and a great
ham. Gloria Stuart tells me that James Whale had to
caution him against "upstaging" her in "The Invisible
Man" -- hist first film and you don't see his face
until the last shot.

He's as overwhelming as ever umpteen years later in
"Lawrence of Arabia." Had he joined O'Toole in that
trek across the desert history would have been
rewritten -- cause he surely would have tamed Anthony
Quinn and his band of rowdies in a nanosecond --
leaving little for O'Toole's Lawrence to do.

__________________________________________________
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26407  
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 0:02am
Subject: Let Us Now Praise Not So Famous Men  jpcoursodon


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:


Thanks David for joining in my praise of Rains. More should
follow... JPC
26408  
From: MG4273@...
Date: Mon May 2, 2005 8:03pm
Subject: Re: D.W. Griffith and racism  nzkpzq


 
In a message dated 05-05-02 18:22:58 EDT, Brian writes:

<< > But doesn't that send us back to the D.W.
> Griffith/racism bind? We focus on the way
> Griffith "meant" his racism, and give a free
> pass to the racism of the film itself. >>

Could I express a different tangent on this?
For some reason, Griffith's best films artistically are also those that are
free of racist taint: Corner in Wheat, The Mothering Heart, Intolerance, Way
Down East, Isn't Life Wonderful. THESE are the films where one loves what
Griffith is doing artistically, in terms of acting, visual style, emotion, any and
all sides of cinema.
By contrast, Birth of a Nation and Dream Street are mainly turkeys, IMHO. And
they are also Griffith's most racist works.
Have seen the same phenomena with prose mystery fiction. Despite the fact
that authors in the 1920's-1940's could "get away" with books with the worst sort
of racism, it is hard to find any first rate mystery stories (in terms of
good plotting) that also are racist. Almost all the racist books are also tenth
rate turkeys in terms of formal plot and mystery technique.
I do not know "why" this is so - a big question. One guess, which I cannot
prove. Good authors have no need of racism. But bad authors are so frustrated by
their lack of inspiration that they start flogging minority groups to relieve
their inner anger and frustration. It is really cheap, and the province of
the tenth rate.
Even when a good author occasionally expresses racist ideas, it is usually in
their worst stories (ie, Chesterton or John Dickson Carr). Their good ones
are racism-free.

Mike Grost
26409  
From: MG4273@...
Date: Mon May 2, 2005 8:11pm
Subject: Re: Let Us Now Praise Not So Famous Men  nzkpzq


 
Glad JPC mentioned "Mr. Skeffington". Claude Rains' restaurant scene with his
daughter is one of the all-time great scenes in Hollywood film.
Sir John Gielgud did a tribute to Rains for TCM. Apparently Rains was a
famous acting teacher of stage performers in London, before he went to Hollywood.

Mike Grost
26410  
From: "Damien Bona"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 0:30am
Subject: Re: Golden Age Misunderstood  damienbona


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:
he did it again with the same trio -- Davis, Henreid and the
> immensely underrated Claude Rains

I'd hardly call Claude Rains "underrated." In fact, I think he may
well be the most highly respected and beloved character actor from
the "golden age." His presence in "Casablanca" alone insures him a
permanent place in the general pop culture pantheon, and his work
in "Notorious" is seen and admired nearly as much. And then
there's "The Unsuspected," "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington," "They Won't
Forget," "Four Daughters," "Mr. Skeffington" and "Deception." Paul
Henreid is underrated, but I think Clause Rains is on just about
everybody's list of favorite actors.
26411  
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 0:38am
Subject: Re: Re: Notorious and subverting heterosexuality (Was: Golden Age Mis...  cellar47


 
--- MG4273@... wrote:

>
> But have also seen similar things with a male lead
> and his character actor
> sidekick. Here it doesn't reflect gender - it pairs
> a good looking leading man
> with a character actor who can do the heavy acting
> lifting.
> In "Follow Me Quietly" (Fleischer), the cop's
> assistant (Jeff Corey) is
> always saying things to his boss like: "You're
> really obsessed with finding this
> killer! You are on the verge of a nervous breakdown!
> You are about to explode
> with tension! You haven't slept in weeks!"
> Handsome hero (William Lundigan) "You're right"
> (looking fresh as a daisy and
> ready for a tennis match at the Bevery Hills Country
> Club)
>

Quite true. The "Real Man" can't express anything. And
so he's given a 'sidekick" - clearly labelled as "Not
the Hero" who gets to say almost everything. naturally
this tends to tip over into the gayness as in Thomas
Mitchell's adoration of Cary Grant in "Only Angels
Have Wings." A very close call. But "luckily" Mitchell
breaks his neck and dies.

Heterosexual male inarticulateness is a genuine
cinematic problem -- until Eric Rohmer saves the day
with films where everybody talks non-stop.

__________________________________________________
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26412  
From: "Blake Lucas"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 0:47am
Subject: Re: Golden Age Misunderstood  lukethedealer12


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, BklynMagus wrote:

I know Irving Rapper is not a great
> auteur, but to this day I am tremendously moved
> by "Now, Voyager."

That makes two of us. I love this story of someone finding selfhood
in spite of a mother like this (yes, she's the "melodrama" version
but there is still truth there)--and isn't this also a "quest" (as
the title suggests)? And not incidentally, I think Rapper did a
great job on this one. I'm not so inclined to dismiss him anyway--
though it has far fewer fans, "Marjorie Morningstar" has thematic
affinities, and while it isn't as smooth a film, contains within its
portrait of a woman emerging into (a kind of) maturity, an
absolutely riveting portrait of a male heterosexual figure
unraveling emotionally before our eyes (a startling, brilliant
performance by Gene Kelly). Taken together, the two Rapper films
suggest a couple of things which bear on this discussion.

Though men often push the action of narratives in a direct manner,
with evident physical energy, they are more interesting as
characters when that is only the initial pretext, and one comes to
what is within them. And conversely, though the cliche is of
the "passive" woman, women often drive the action of films with what
is within them, and in just as forceful a way. One sees that in
Antonioni or Bergman, of course, and that's fine (or can be) but
there are also films in which women both drive the film from what is
within them and function in virtually a male way as "journeying"
action figures. This seems to happen most readily with filmmakers
who truly love and appreciate women, like (gloriously) Raoul Walsh
in "Sadie Thompson," "The Man I Love" and "The Revolt of Mamie
Stover" (a supposed macho, male director)--and the female
protagonists of those films, vulnerable and resilient in equal
measure, also register as intensely feminine. Consistent with this,
his male heroes don't shut down their emotions. And that's one
reason why his heroes and heroines are usually well-matched, unless
one of them is weak in some way, as in two of the films cited--it's
the male both times (though not in the one in which Walsh himself
plays the hero--O'Hara to Gloria Swanson's Sadie).

Blake
26413  
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 1:09am
Subject: Re: Golden Age Misunderstood  jpcoursodon


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
> wrote:
> he did it again with the same trio -- Davis, Henreid and the
> > immensely underrated Claude Rains
>
> I'd hardly call Claude Rains "underrated." In fact, I think he
may
> well be the most highly respected and beloved character actor from
> the "golden age." His presence in "Casablanca" alone insures him
a
> permanent place in the general pop culture pantheon, and his work
> in "Notorious" is seen and admired nearly as much. And then
> there's "The Unsuspected," "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington," "They
Won't
> Forget," "Four Daughters," "Mr. Skeffington" and "Deception."
Paul
> Henreid is underrated, but I think Clause Rains is on just about
> everybody's list of favorite actors.


I meant "underrated" in the sense that he was always considered
a "supporting actor" and treated as such, whereas he was really as
great as or even better than the "stars" of many of his films.
JPC
26414  
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 1:29am
Subject: Re: Re: Golden Age Misunderstood  cellar47


 
--- Blake Lucas wrote:

> That makes two of us. I love this story of someone
> finding selfhood
> in spite of a mother like this (yes, she's the
> "melodrama" version
> but there is still truth there)--and isn't this also
> a "quest" (as
> the title suggests)? And not incidentally, I think
> Rapper did a
> great job on this one. I'm not so inclined to
> dismiss him anyway--
> though it has far fewer fans, "Marjorie Morningstar"
> has thematic
> affinities, and while it isn't as smooth a film,
> contains within its
> portrait of a woman emerging into (a kind of)
> maturity, an
> absolutely riveting portrait of a male heterosexual
> figure
> unraveling emotionally before our eyes (a startling,
> brilliant
> performance by Gene Kelly). Taken together, the two
> Rapper films
> suggest a couple of things which bear on this
> discussion.
>

Well then here's a real challenge for you Blake -- the
two films with which Rapper ended his career: "The
Christine Jorgensen Story" and "Born Again" -- the
apologia pro vita sua of Watergate conspirator Charles
Colson.

Can we say "thematically related" boys and girls?

Irving lived to be 100. Not much action in his final
years. But then we all can't be Manoel de Oliviera.

__________________________________________________
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26415  
From: "Richard Modiano"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 1:29am
Subject: Re: Let Us Now Praise Not So Famous Men  tharpa2002


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon"
wrote:

"Thanks David for joining in my praise of Rains. More should
follow..."

Let us not forget that Rains was John Gielgud's acting teacher.

Richard
26416  
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 1:39am
Subject: Re: Notorious and subverting heterosexuality (Was: Golden Age Mis...  jpcoursodon


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
>
> Heterosexual male inarticulateness is a genuine
> cinematic problem -- until Eric Rohmer saves the day
> with films where everybody talks non-stop.
>
> ___
But surely you're not implying that there are "real men" (don't forget
the quote marks) in Rohmer's films?!
JPC_______________________________________________
26417  
From: samadams@...
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 2:08am
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1386  arglebargle31


 
I saw all or part of about two dozen movies, though nothing outright
jaw-dropping. The much-hyped 4 sank in its second half -- way too
many shots of old Russian peasant women shouting into the camera (one
Kustirica is enough, thanks), and I have to admit losing focus on 13
Lakes somewhere around #8. Seeing it on two consecutive days of less
than six hours' sleep was not the best situation, but it did seem
that some takes merited their 10-minute length a lot more than
others. I thought I had a good creation-myth structure going through
the first four -- pristine nature to primordial soup to water skiers
to oil tanker -- but that theory evaporated with #5 and I failed to
formulate another.

The Power of Nightmares is pretty much as good as they say, although
I'm getting *very* tired of so-called political documentaries which
undercut their arguments with snide music cues and cheap-shot editing
(e.g. the new Enron doc). A postage-stamp version can be seen at
www.informationclearinghouse.info -- worth it for the astonishing
parallels btw the neocons of the 70s and now: Cheney/Rumsfeld
manufacturing evidence of Soviet strength in order to quell
Republican moderates, Reagan staffers inventing Russian weapons
systems to shore up evil empire rhetoric, and so on. Struck me
they're using the exact same strategy with the judiciary's so-called
war on "people of faith" -- inventing a conflict so that every attack
seems like a counter-attack.

Lots of pretty-good, but not much great: beautiful imagery in Claire
Denis' opaque doc Vers Mathilde (Agnes Godard and a Super 8 camera is
a happy marriage); neat fusion of childhood fantasy and Catholic
guilt in My Brother's Summer; the sight of James Toback punching
himself in the face for a sound effect in The Outsider. Tickets, a
three-parter from Olmi, Kiarostami and Loach, is better overall than
Eros (sorry, but the acting and dialogue in the Antonioni is just
plain risible), though none of the segments qualify as a major work
-- Kiarostami's is atypically plot-driven; Loach's is a cheery lark,
and the Olmi is well-mounted but trite. Enjoyed the unassuming
Ushpizin, touted as the first movie filmed in Jersualem's
ultra-Orthodox neighborhoods, and the replay of RNC protests in the
Medium Cool "inspired" The F Word.

Generally seems like a fest that is well-programmed but not crossing
its T's -- screenings starting inexcusably late, programs running way
over, no posting of the fluctuating schedule, projection and
especially sound mistakes: several screenings went off at
ear-splitting volume and stayed so despite complaints and audience
members watching with fingers in ears, and an impressive tribute to
the Hubleys was marred when the 16mm print of The Tower was run all
the way through with clumps of hair in the gate and no sound. Too bad
they fall down on the basics since some of the films were quite
strong.

Anyone else?

Sam

>
> Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 09:59:40 -0400
> From: Jesse Paddock
>Subject: Vittorio De Seta (Was: Godard the Grouch)
>
>
>Tribeca looked pretty exhausting. What else have you managed to see?
>Jesse
>
26418  
From: "Noel Vera"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 2:48am
Subject: The bit more entertaining than Bride Wore Black  noelbotevera


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Noel Vera"
wrote:
>
> This is starting to sound a bit more entertaining than The
> > Bride Wore Black).
>
> yes it is!

Just to bring that divertion to a closure, it's by general consensus
that the '70s golden age of Philippine cinema (tying it to yet
another afb thread) started in 1974 with Lino Brocka's "Tinimbang Ka
Ngunit Kulang" (You Were Judged But Found Wanting), and ended with
the decade. I always thought that age went on into the mid-'80s and
ended with the fall of Marcos--that the golden age was straddled by
the Filipino artist's bete noir, the Marcos dictatorship. When
Corazon Aquino took over as president, the joke is that her only
significant contribution to Philippine cinema is increased
censorship by way of the Roy Cohn-ish Manoling Morato, and her
untalented actress wannabe daughter, Kris Aquino.

> Kill Bill is based on a Chinese novel, The Bride.

First time I heard of that. I'd take your word for it, but I'm
curious: would you have a source for that liddle tidbit?
26419  
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 2:51am
Subject: Tribeca (Was: Digest Number 1386)  sallitt1


 
> The much-hyped 4 sank in its second half -- way too
> many shots of old Russian peasant women shouting into the camera (one
> Kustirica is enough, thanks)

I didn't care for 4 either, though I guess it's assertive enough that
people should see it for themselves. It suggested to me a somewhat
nastier and more abrasive BRAZIL.

> screenings starting inexcusably late, programs running way
> over

Yeah, that was awful. I had to miss movies because of that.

> Anyone else?

Other than the De Seta films:

The Burkina Faso film THE NIGHT OF TRUTH eventually slips into
symbolism/melodrama (not unusual for African cinema), but I actually liked
it a lot. For once, an anti-war film that is not one-sided, that is both
afraid of and in touch with the exhilaration of bloodshed.

The very quiet, contemplative Spanish documentary THE SKY TURNS is worth a
look. Victor Erice seems to be the filmmaker's big influence. I minded
the way the film passed off a lot of staged material as reality, but I was
drawn in by the almost morbid mood. The old peasants in the film return
to the subject of their impending deaths again and again, totally
matter-of-factly.

Amir Naderi's SOUND BARRIER is either brilliant or silly - both, I think.
Naderi's skill at orchestrating filmic elements into swaths of mood is
also his big limitation, but he's really adept here at torturing the
audience with meaningless duration. The JEANNE DIELMAN of NYC independent
cinema.

- Dan
26420  
From: "Noel Vera"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 3:02am
Subject: Re: CATCH 22 directed by Richard Quine!  noelbotevera


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- hotlove666 wrote:
> > Nichols'
> > production is very B'way.
> >
> It was just OK. "Angels" really has to be seen and
> appreciated in a theater.

I thought it was important that Nichols gave it the big-Broadway
treatment, complete with stars and a million-viewer audience, more
than the play will probably ever see. Big thorn in the craw of the
conservative right, too.

But I'd love to see the Altman version.
26421  
From: ptonguette@...
Date: Mon May 2, 2005 11:09pm
Subject: Re: Re: F for Fake (Was: Godard the Grouch)  peter_tonguette


 
Bill,

As you know, I very much agree with you that the garden scene from "The
Dreamers" is the fulfillment of what Welles discussed with you: the whole business
of moving away from doing "Welles shots." And that fragment is indeed greater
than "F for Fake" - or anything else in Welles, for that matter, save for
"Chimes at Midnight." So I have no argument with you there, however much I value
and love "F for Fake." Heck, I adore "The Lady From Shanghai," too, but the
best of "The Dreamers" material simply exists in a different artistic
dimension.

In addition to "Filming Othello," an example of Welles "settling into
himself," as you put it, is "The Magic Show," begun around the same time. There is
very little "abstract" talk about magic in this project. Maybe Welles would
have gotten around to filming or recording it, but I kind of doubt it. As it
stands, the material is simply wonderful illusions, beautifully filmed, with a
masterful, funny comic interlude. Another thing Oja says on the "F for Fake"
commentary is that Welles wanted to be remembered as a magician.

Peter Tonguette


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
26422  
From: ptonguette@...
Date: Mon May 2, 2005 11:18pm
Subject: Nichols (Was: CATCH 22 directed by Richard Quine!)  peter_tonguette


 
David,

Unfortunately, I didn't care for Nichols's recent TV movies, "Wit" and
"Angels in America." I didn't detect anything interesting in the visuals of either,
however engaging the screenplays or acting might be. It's depressing that
these two films received so much acclaim while Peter Bogdanovich has directed a
dozen far more cinematically interesting films for TV which go practically
unnoticed. But I digress.

Glancing at the IMDB entry for Nichols, I experienced a "Brad Stevens moment"
when I stumbled upon a short film he directed in 1968 which I'd never heard
of before! Anyone have any idea what this is?

http://imdb.com/title/tt0183871/

Peter


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
26423  
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 3:27am
Subject: Re: Notorious and subverting heterosexuality (Was: Golden Age Misunderstood)  sallitt1


 
> Think too of Lauren Bacall's "You
> don't have to say anything" speeches to Bogart in both
> "To Have and Have Not" and "The Big Sleep" -- two
> otherwise very different films. It's an unequal
> division of romantic labor.

I'd normally let this issue go away quietly, but I'm wondering what you
are talking about here. What's the "you don't have to say anything"
speech in THE BIG SLEEP? My recollection is that Bacall spends
practically the entire film lying and hiding behind masks - I'm curious
where she gets to be the representative of direct emotional expression. -
Dan
26424  
From: "Sam Adams"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 3:29am
Subject: Re: Tribeca (Was: Digest Number 1386)  arglebargle31


 
I liked this one as well. It suffered a bit from sharing a theme with the De Seta
documentaries (the passing of an old way of life), and I found myself uninvolved to the
point of wandering by some of its repetitions. But then, out of nowhere, I was moved
almost to tears by the sight of a nearly blind artist feeling his way along the last canvas he
will ever paint.

Sam

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
>> The very quiet, contemplative Spanish documentary THE SKY TURNS is worth a
> look. Victor Erice seems to be the filmmaker's big influence. I minded
> the way the film passed off a lot of staged material as reality, but I was
> drawn in by the almost morbid mood. The old peasants in the film return
> to the subject of their impending deaths again and again, totally
> matter-of-factly.

> - Dan
26425  
From: "Noel Vera"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 3:41am
Subject: Re: Huston [Was: Golden Age Misunderstood]  noelbotevera


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> Ah but is Huston as bleak as all that? Think of"beat
> the Devil" (dialogue by Truman Capote -- with a.d.
> Stephen Sondheim manning the clapper) "The List of
> Adrian Messenger" is pretty cheery too

Ah, but that stare Kirk Douglas (was it Douglas? It's been years)
throws at George C Scott while he (SPOILERS) hangs dying on the prongs
of that giant farm machine, that was chilling beyond any pretense of
cheerfulness. Almost everyone onscreen is wearing masks, but under his
metaphorical mask was pure malevolence.
26426  
From: "Noel Vera"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 3:49am
Subject: Re: Notorious and subverting heterosexuality (Was: Golden Age Mis...  noelbotevera


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> Quite true. The "Real Man" can't express anything. And
> so he's given a 'sidekick" - clearly labelled as "Not
> the Hero" who gets to say almost everything. naturally
> this tends to tip over into the gayness as in Thomas
> Mitchell's adoration of Cary Grant in "Only Angels
> Have Wings."

Then there's Mitchell adoring Walter Huston in Hughes' "The Outlaw."
What is it with Mitchell and his male adoration? Did he make a career
out of this? Did Huston (whose relatinship with Jack Buetel is the
film's real romance, while Russell has to struggle with the indignity
of being traded for a horse)? And did Hughes realize what he was
putting onscreen alongside Jane Russell's breasts? Come to think of
it, Hell's Angels was awashed in intense male cameraderie...
26427  
From: "Noel Vera"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 4:11am
Subject: Gerardo de Leon in Senses of Cinema  noelbotevera


 
An article by Voice writer Mark Holcomb:

http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/directors/05/de_leon.html

Focuses on his exploitation films, of course (they're the only ones
available).

But it's a good piece on those films, even if it does leave out
Blood of the Vampires

http://journals.aol.com/noelbotevera/MyJournal/entries/349

(Okay, correction--he calls it Creatures of Evil. But the film's
original title is supposed to be "Dugo ng Vampira," not "Ibulong Mo
Sa Hangin," (Whisper it to the wind) which is a different film.
Unless imdb is wrong. Which wouldn't be the first time). And I
thought the most significant contribution De Leon makes to Moreau
lore with "Terror is a Man" is the suggestion, however subdued, that
the creature is capable of love, and of acts of mercy. That wasn't
in Welles' book.
26428  
From: "Noel Vera"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 4:17am
Subject: Re: Golden Age Misunderstood  noelbotevera


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> Rains was a great star, a great actor, and a great
> ham.
> He's as overwhelming as ever umpteen years later in
> "Lawrence of Arabia."

I remember Arthur Kennedy accusing him of "walking away--always
walking away." And he always did, with that portion of the picture
neatly tucked away in his pocket.

Grant was wonderful and Bergman incandescent in "Notorious," but it
was Rains' face that stayed with me when that picture ended. Pretty
much stole that picture as well, a great one, and with two stars at
the peak of their powers.
26429  
From: "Noel Vera"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 4:23am
Subject: Re: Gerardo de Leon in Senses of Cinema  noelbotevera


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Noel Vera"
wrote:
> An article by Voice writer Mark Holcomb:
>
http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/directors/05/de_leon.html
>
> Focuses on his exploitation films, of course (they're the only
ones
> available).
>
> But it's a good piece on those films, even if it does leave out
> Blood of the Vampires
>
http://journals.aol.com/noelbotevera/MyJournal/entries/349
>
> (Okay, correction--he calls it Creatures of Evil. But the film's
> original title is supposed to be "Dugo ng Vampira," not "Ibulong
Mo
> Sa Hangin," (Whisper it to the wind) which is a different film.
> Unless imdb is wrong. Which wouldn't be the first time).

Correction--Wells, not Welles. And I'd love to find out if
Madden's "Dracula" really WAS influenced by de Leon's vampire
movies...
26430  
From: "Blake Lucas"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 4:49am
Subject: Re: Golden Age Misunderstood  lukethedealer12


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- Blake Lucas wrote:
>
And not incidentally, I think
> > Rapper did a
> > great job on this one. I'm not so inclined to
> > dismiss him anyway--
> > though it has far fewer fans, "Marjorie Morningstar"
> > has thematic
> > affinities, and while it isn't as smooth a film,
> > contains within its
> > portrait of a woman emerging into (a kind of)
> > maturity, an
> > absolutely riveting portrait of a male heterosexual
> > figure
> > unraveling emotionally before our eyes (a startling,
> > brilliant
> > performance by Gene Kelly). >

> Well then here's a real challenge for you Blake -- the
> two films with which Rapper ended his career: "The
> Christine Jorgensen Story" and "Born Again" -- the
> apologia pro vita sua of Watergate conspirator Charles
> Colson.
>
> Can we say "thematically related" boys and girls?
>
David, I actually did see "The Christine Jorgensen Story" (and knew
those earlier Rappers at the time) though was not aware of "Born
Again." Well, "Christine Jorgensen" is not exactly unrelated
(there's that journey of "the woman," isn't there?) I thought he
treated it in pretty much the manner you would expect him to from
his earlier films. It wasn't the worst movie I've ever seen, though
certainly no "Now Voyager" or even "Marjorie Morningstar." And it
certainly was no "In a Year with 13 Moons" was it?--not that they
really have much in common.

When I said I don't dismiss Rapper, that doesn't mean I think he is
George Cukor or John M. Stahl or something. He's a minor talent,
obviously, and the things other posters said about "Now Voyager" and
the confluence of talents of Davis, Rains, Cooper, Robinson and so
on, not to mention Max Steiner and Warren Low (a smooth as silk film
editor), plainly apply. But I always take the attitude that if the
director can't take all that and make it sing, it won't, no matter
how much is has going for it. This is an arguable masterpiece--and
it seems a lot of us agree--so you can't just count him out.
> Irving lived to be 100. Not much action in his final
> years. But then we all can't be Manoel de Oliviera.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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26431  
From: "Blake Lucas"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 5:04am
Subject: Re: Golden Age Misunderstood  lukethedealer12


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- jpcoursodon wrote:
>
> >
> > We don't need a "great auteur" to be moved, and
> > Rapper had a great
> > script by Casey Robinson and a great cast with
> > Davis, Rains, Gladys
> > Cooper... he did it again with the same trio --
> > Davis, Henreid and the
> > immensely underrated Claude Rains -- in the
> > less-known "Deception",
> > one of the most memorable of Rains's performances
> > (he is really the
> > star of the movie, although billed beneath the other
> > two). Rains shows
> > up in great roles in some of the very best of those
> > Warner Bros. so-
> > called "women's pictures", most notably Vincent
> > Sherman's superb "Mr.
> > Skeffington", again with Davis in a bravura
> > performance. Rains is
> > the "auteur' of those films -- in David's terms --
> > as much as Davis
> > is.
> >
> No argument from me on that score. I recall Pauline
> Kael saying that Davis had no choice but to shoot
> Rains in "Deception." But the reason, which Kael
> didn't mention, is that if she failed to do so the
> film would be all his.
>
I left all above because of the presence of Bette Davis in both
posts and all the films mentioned. To her, it seems, Rains was a
star. At least, in an interview of hers once I heard her asked who
her favorite leading man was and she said without any hesitation
"Claude Rains." And said more about him--I don't remember exactly
but what you'd expect--something like "you can't find an actor like
that anymore." True.
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
26432  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 5:45am
Subject: Re: Notorious and subverting heterosexuality (Was: Golden Age Mis...  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 05-05-02 16:33:41 EDT, David E. writes:


> In "Follow Me Quietly" (Fleischer), the cop's assistant (Jeff
Corey) is
> always saying things to his boss like: "You're really obsessed with
finding this
> killer! You are on the verge of a nervous breakdown! You are about
to explode
> with tension! You haven't slept in weeks!"
> Handsome hero (William Lundigan) "You're right" (looking fresh as a
daisy and
> ready for a tennis match at the Bevery Hills Country Club)

Brilliant observation, Mike. I recently saw that film for the first
time at Torino. It is key to the history of serial killer film
because of the introduction of the concept of a "profile" years
before the term was invented - embodied by a dummy! And the scene
wher Lundigan soliloquizes to the dummy while the rain is pouring
outside is truly chilling. I won't spoil it for those who haven't
seen it by saying more.
26433  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 5:48am
Subject: Re: Golden Age Misunderstood  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>

>
> Rains was a great star, a great actor, and a great
> ham.
And very important to the dynamic of Notorious, one film where every
point of the triangle gives a great performance. His vulnerability is
much more apparent than Grant's, which I suppose is why he loses
Bergman... (Besides being a Nazi, of course.)
26434  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 5:53am
Subject: Walsh and women (Was: Golden Age Misunderstood)  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Blake Lucas"
wrote:

> his male heroes don't shut down their emotions. And that's one
> reason why his heroes and heroines are usually well-matched, unless
> one of them is weak in some way, as in two of the films cited--it's
> the male both times (though not in the one in which Walsh himself
> plays the hero--O'Hara to Gloria Swanson's Sadie).
>
> Blake

Or in the The Man I Love, where Bruce Bennett is already dead (and
filmed as such) so that he can't respond to Lupino's love.
26435  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 6:06am
Subject: Re: The bit more entertaining than Bride Wore Black  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Noel Vera" wrote:

> First time I heard of that. I'd take your word for it, but I'm
> curious: would you have a source for that liddle tidbit?

I googled around and came up with this: Adapted from the comic/graphic
novel, "The Bride," the first "Kill Bill" is the tale of the revenge of
a woman left for dead on her wedding day by her ex-boss and his group
of assassins.

So it's a comic. Not mentioned in the imdb credits.
26436  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 6:21am
Subject: Re: Notorious and subverting heterosexuality (Was: Golden Age Mis...  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:

> Heterosexual male inarticulateness is a genuine
> cinematic problem -- until Eric Rohmer saves the day
> with films where everybody talks non-stop.

Actually, Truffaut did it quite a bit more, in everything from Shoot to
Jules and Jim (where the guys are the softies) to The Bride (ditto, in
spades) to all the Leauds to Mississippi Mermaid and The Soft Skin (two
inexperienced men who fall in love and lose their heads) to The Man Who
Loved Women, The Green Room, The Woman Next Door... Tell me a Truffaut
where the man isn't more sensitive and emotive than the women, or at
least on par with them. Maybe Fahrenheit, but there he had an actor who
was behaving so badly that his performance couldn't really achieve much
of anything - neither the romantic lead he wanted to be or the Wild
Child Truffaut had imagined.
26437  
From: "jess_l_amortell"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 7:14am
Subject: Re: Eros  jess_l_amortell


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Ervolino" wrote:
> I'm curious if anyone has seen Eros yet.

"Yet"? By the time of your post, the film had already come and gone in these parts. Still, I'm surprised that no one seems to have responded. For myself, I was totally focused on not missing the Wong (so close to the style of Mood for Love -- I'll probably be looking for onanistic overtones in the latter in any future viewings) and by 11:30 p.m. had little left for the Antonioni. But I was glad you posted those thoughts; the "Meshes" comparison may not be so far from the mark. I even felt the film required no apologies visually -- the camera movements seemed alert and interesting and the scenery itself is, as they used to say, worth the price of admission. (True, the price of admission wasn't $10.50 when they used to say that.)

I didn't even mind the Soderbergh as much as I'd thought -- staying closer to Maya Deren's time, it made me think of an extended "Show of Shows" skit with Sid Caesar on the couch and Carl Reiner launching the paper airplanes, or maybe the other way around -- but I don't know about having to watch it again (assuming the film ever shows up again) en route to the Antonioni. Since this was originally supposed to be Almodovar, couldn't they just substitute "The Shrinking Lover"?

(P.S. In trying to retrieve the "Eros" post via Yahoo's search, I was hit with dozens of posts about "heterosexuals" and "heterosexuality" -- funny, I'd never before noticed the word "eros" sitting in the middle of those. You could almost be forgiven for thinking that eros belongs to heterosexuals.)


> I'm reminded of the last great film I saw
> that people around me laughed at, Garrel's "La Cicatrice interieur"

Maybe it's something about the horses?
26438  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 7:41am
Subject: Re: Notorious and subverting heterosexuality (Was: Golden Age Mis...  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666" wrote:

Tell me a Truffaut
> where the man isn't more sensitive and emotive than the women, or at
> least on par with them.

OK, I thouught of it after signing off: Two English Girls. Which brings
up why I'm a bit down on this movie. Not because the hero is a sexist
lump of coal - no wonder it's the one Truffaut Scorsese homaged (Age of
Innocence) - but because Leaud seems to me to be miscast as a sexist
lump of coal.
26439  
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 10:35am
Subject: The auteurist dilemma (Was: Win a Date with Tad Hamilton)  sallitt1


 
> I am not trying to waste your (or anybody else's) time. Your note
> has definitely given me pause.

No, please keep recommending things. Just because we all disagree with
each other doesn't mean we can't exchange tips.

> I have no idea what this means. We are clearly at a cross roads
> with the whole idea of "entertainment". Gurinder Chada is clearly trying
> to entertain people, in the old fashioned sense of the word. There is a
> love story, narrative twists and turns, comedy, lots of singing and
> dancing. All the things that used to give people pleasure at the movies
> circa 1950 Instead of pleasing people, many cinephiles act as if this
> sort of thing were a trip to the dentist. If "Bride and Prejudice"
> sounds awful to you, please do not force yourself to see it. The film
> only makes sense as entertainment - something intended to give viewing
> pleasure.

I still think you're attributing too much to an alleged general antipathy
for entertainment, and not enough to plain old differences in taste. Most
of the people reading this are open to liking some kind of musical. I
personally thought ELLA ENCHANTED was worth the heads-up that we got (from
Bill?) on this list.

I do agree with you, though, that there's an important aspect of auteurism
that is falling into neglect these days: mining unfashionable genres and
media. Obviously, the great transformations that have overtaken the
American cinema have made it difficult for film buffs weaned on old
Hollywood to expose themselves to new forms. But there's so much out
there that receives no critical attention: it would be nice if we had the
stamina to sift through some of it. - Dan
26440  
From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 1:00pm
Subject: Claude Rains  eanmdphd


 
I sense that Rains is more of a momma's boy under the stern hand of the
his capo mother, than a Nazi at heart... perhaps like his character in
Casablanca, more influenced by outside forces than internal values. I
remember him more dynamic in They'll Never Forget.


> From: "hotlove666"
> Subject: Re: Golden Age Misunderstood
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
> wrote:
>> Rains was a great star, a great actor, and a great
>> ham.
> And very important to the dynamic of Notorious, one film where every
> point of the triangle gives a great performance. His vulnerability is
> much more apparent than Grant's, which I suppose is why he loses
> Bergman... (Besides being a Nazi, of course.)
26441  
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 1:06pm
Subject: Re: Re: Notorious and subverting heterosexuality (Was: Golden Age Mis...  cellar47


 
--- jpcoursodon wrote:

> But surely you're not implying that there are "real
> men" (don't forget
> the quote marks) in Rohmer's films?!


None by Hollywood standards. Louis B. Mayer would find
Patrick Bachau in "La Collectionneuse" to be nothing
but a creep, and Trintignant in "Ma Nuit Chez Maud" a
bore. Lord only knows what he'd say about Brialy in
"Le Genoiu de Claire" or Pascale Greggory in "Pauline
a la Plage."

__________________________________________________
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26442  
From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 1:08pm
Subject: articulate men  eanmdphd


 
I think Terry in On the Waterfront and Stanley in A Streetcar Named
Desire are rather articulate given their education level, especially as
Terry is working out a conflict that threatens his life; Stanley, his
marital happiness.
> From: "hotlove666"
> Subject: Re: Notorious and subverting heterosexuality (Was: Golden Age
> Mis...
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
> wrote:
>> Heterosexual male inarticulateness is a genuine
>> cinematic problem -- until Eric Rohmer saves the day
>> with films where everybody talks non-stop.
> Actually, Truffaut did it quite a bit more
26443  
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 1:12pm
Subject: Re: Notorious and subverting heterosexuality (Was: Golden Age Misunderstood)  cellar47


 
--- Dan Sallitt wrote:

>
> I'd normally let this issue go away quietly, but I'm
> wondering what you
> are talking about here. What's the "you don't have
> to say anything"
> speech in THE BIG SLEEP? My recollection is that
> Bacall spends
> practically the entire film lying and hiding behind
> masks - I'm curious
> where she gets to be the representative of direct
> emotional expression. -

There's a scene where they're in a car with much
cross-ctting between them that Raymond Bellour wrote
an analysis of. The dialogue is perfectly"superfluous"
in terms of the plot but it cements their relationship
insofar as she becomes the one that makes it work.

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26444  
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 1:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: Huston [Was: Golden Age Misunderstood]  cellar47


 
--- Noel Vera wrote:

>
> Ah, but that stare Kirk Douglas (was it Douglas?
> It's been years)
> throws at George C Scott while he (SPOILERS) hangs
> dying on the prongs
> of that giant farm machine, that was chilling beyond
> any pretense of
> cheerfulness. Almost everyone onscreen is wearing
> masks, but under his
> metaphorical mask was pure malevolence.
>

A fun malevolence.
>
>

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26445  
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 1:17pm
Subject: Re: Re: Notorious and subverting heterosexuality (Was: Golden Age Mis...  cellar47


 
--- Noel Vera wrote:

>
> Then there's Mitchell adoring Walter Huston in
> Hughes' "The Outlaw."
> What is it with Mitchell and his male adoration? Did
> he make a career
> out of this?

Yes. And Mark Rappaport examines it in his video essay
"The Silver Screen -- Color Me Lavendar"

Did Huston (whose relatinship with Jack
> Buetel is the
> film's real romance, while Russell has to struggle
> with the indignity
> of being traded for a horse)? And did Hughes realize
> what he was
> putting onscreen alongside Jane Russell's breasts?
> Come to think of
> it, Hell's Angels was awashed in intense male
> cameraderie...
>

The clouds lift at last!

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26446  
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 1:25pm
Subject: Re: Re: Notorious and subverting heterosexuality (Was: Golden Age Mis...  cellar47


 
--- hotlove666 wrote:

>
> Actually, Truffaut did it quite a bit more, in
> everything from Shoot to
> Jules and Jim (where the guys are the softies) to
> The Bride (ditto, in
> spades) to all the Leauds to Mississippi Mermaid and
> The Soft Skin (two
> inexperienced men who fall in love and lose their
> heads) to The Man Who
> Loved Women, The Green Room, The Woman Next Door...
> Tell me a Truffaut
> where the man isn't more sensitive and emotive than
> the women, or at
> least on par with them. Maybe Fahrenheit, but there
> he had an actor who
> was behaving so badly that his performance couldn't
> really achieve much
> of anything - neither the romantic lead he wanted to
> be or the Wild
> Child Truffaut had imagined.
>
I agree. You make quite a good argument for Truffaut.
What was especially shocking to American sensibilities
in "Jules and Jim" was the fact that Jules let
Catherine have outside affairs and even encouraged her
affair with Jim. That they didn't fight over the women
is, by American movie standards, incomprehensible.

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26447  
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 1:32pm
Subject: Re: articulate men  cellar47


 
--- Elizabeth Nolan wrote:
> I think Terry in On the Waterfront and Stanley in A
> Streetcar Named
> Desire are rather articulate given their education
> level, especially as
> Terry is working out a conflict that threatens his
> life; Stanley, his
> marital happiness.

They're special cases. Terry, for all the sensitivity
Bando brings to the part (the glove scene), is very
much a "man" in the tradition of Cagney in the 30's
and Garfield in the 40's.

Stanley is at his most articulate when confornting
Blanche: "We had this date from the beginning."
Of course Tennessee Williams is truly disruptive in
that he understands both sexes so well. I'm always
amazed at the way critics go on and on and on and on
about how he "identified" with Blanche. Well if that's
the case, then who wrote Stanley?

The same guy!

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26448  
From: "jess_l_amortell"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 2:46pm
Subject: Re: The auteurist dilemma (Was: Win a Date with Tad Hamilton)  jess_l_amortell


 
> > I am not trying to waste your (or anybody else's) time. Your note
> > has definitely given me pause.
>
> No, please keep recommending things. Just because we all disagree with
> each other doesn't mean we can't exchange tips.

And just to clarify, my time wasn't wasted by "Tad Hamilton"; I wouldn't/couldn't have watched the whole thing (as well as most of the outtakes, especially in the Nathan Lane/Sean Hayes dept.) if I hadn't enjoyed it to a degree -- and I see so little "popular" film that one like this becomes practically exotic. I did wonder whether you saw formal dimensions I might have missed (especially on DVD) -- to tell the truth, its blandness may have had me hallucinating but I thought I began noticing Ozu-esque eyeline mismatches at one point.


> > I have only seen "Bride and Prejudice" once. I left the theater in a state of
> > delight. It sounds like the reviewers felt pain, pain, pain (have not traced
> > down the links you sent).

There's no need to read them, but I should point out that (at least as far as I recall) they weren't criticizing the film because it was entertainment, but because of flaws that presumably interfered with their entertainment.
26449  
From: "Blake Lucas"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 3:56pm
Subject: Re: Walsh and women (Was: Golden Age Misunderstood)  lukethedealer12


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666" wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Blake Lucas"
> wrote:
>
unless
> > one of them is weak in some way, as in two of the films cited--
it's
> > the male both times (though not in the one in which Walsh himself
> > plays the hero--O'Hara to Gloria Swanson's Sadie).
> >
> > Blake
>
> Or in the The Man I Love, where Bruce Bennett is already dead (and
> filmed as such) so that he can't respond to Lupino's love.

This was one of the two I mentioned with a "weak" male, in case you
read it fast--the other is Richard Egan in "Mamie Stover." Our mutual
friend Lee Sanders once observed this of "The Man I Love"--film and
title song--"..and he'll be big and strong, the man I love..."
Lee pointed out it is plainly Ida Lupino who is "big and strong."
26450  
From: "Brian Dauth"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 4:30pm
Subject: Re: Huston [Was: Golden Age Misunderstood]  cinebklyn


 
Daviod E writes:

> Ah but is Huston as bleak as all
that?

I would argue that he is (and then
some).

> Think of"beat the Devil"

Where he plays "Falcon" for farce.

I think Huston will often approach a
narrative or a situation with humor,
and even find humor in it, but at the
root is bleakness. For me Huston is
constantly emphasizing that the quality
of a person's life is determined by how
they play the hand they are dealt. In
"The Man Who Would Be King" -- enjoy
being King while you can, but if you are
found out -- go down singing.

> "The List of Adrian Messenger" is
pretty cheery too -- being a costume romp
and all.

For me, "List" is the "positive" version
of the same narrative of which "The
Kremlin Letter" is the negative. But
underlying both is the sense that the
world is a place of disguise, deception
and betrayal.

> And then there's peerless black wit of
"Prizzi's Honor."

Agreed, but the climax is a husband and
wife trying to assassinate each other in
their boudoir.

There are moments of respite in Huston,
but I think he is constantly pointing out
that these respites are temporary.

Brian
26451  
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 5:10pm
Subject: Re: Re: Huston [Was: Golden Age Misunderstood]  cellar47


 
--- Brian Dauth wrote:

>
> I think Huston will often approach a
> narrative or a situation with humor,
> and even find humor in it, but at the
> root is bleakness. For me Huston is
> constantly emphasizing that the quality
> of a person's life is determined by how
> they play the hand they are dealt. In
> "The Man Who Would Be King" -- enjoy
> being King while you can, but if you are
> found out -- go down singing.
>

Exactly -- singing.
I think we're looking at the very same work from
different persepctives. I wouldn't deny Huston's
bleakness, but he's not bleak like DeToth -- or
Scorsese for that matter.


>
> > And then there's peerless black wit of
> "Prizzi's Honor."
>
> Agreed, but the climax is a husband and
> wife trying to assassinate each other in
> their boudoir.

The perfect setting.

>
> There are moments of respite in Huston,
> but I think he is constantly pointing out
> that these respites are temporary.
>

Maybe.

BTW, are you familiar with "A Walk with Love and
Death"?
>

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26452  
From: "samfilms2003"
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 7:30pm
Subject: Re: Speaking of Willy Kurant  samfilms2003


 
Thanks for posting that link !

Very revealing, and valuable.

I may print out copies to hand out to the "Indies" I meet who
seem to think cinematography, and really Directing, is illustrating
a script.

-Sam W


> There's a wonderful Q&A with Kurant located here:

> http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/forum/onFilm/kurantQA.shtml
26453  
From: BklynMagus
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 8:07pm
Subject: Re: Speaking of Willy Kurant  cinebklyn


 
What I found interesting was Kurant's notion,
which he repeated, that film's technology was
there to convey th message, and not there as
an end in itself. Old school, no doubt, but
refreshing.

Brian

QUESTION: What is your advice for film students?

KURANT: If they are interested in cinematography,
my advice is learn to open your eyes and really
see composition and how the light is falling. That is
much more important than knowing how to choose
the latest light meter. You need to understand
technology is a tool for conveying the message, but
it is not the ultimate thing.

QUESTION: What if the student is a future director
or writer?

KURANT: They should learn how to discuss and
re-discuss the important moments with the
cinematographer, so they can decide with him how
to frame and light the images to convey the message.
26454  
From: BklynMagus
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 8:17pm
Subject: Re: Huston [Was: Golden Age Misunderstood]  cinebklyn


 
David E. writes:

> I think we're looking at the very
same work from different persepctives.
I wouldn't deny Huston's bleakness, but
he's not bleak like DeToth -- or Scorsese
for that matter.

I do not know De Toth well enough, but
Huston is definitely a Majorie Morningstar
compared to Scorsese.

> Me: . . . but the climax is a husband
and wife trying to assassinate each other
in their boudoir.

> David E: The perfect setting.

Certainly Huston thought so. In "An Open
Book" he said if he lived his life over he
wouldn't marry for the fifth time. And the
bedroom scene that ends "The Dead" is
just as potent, but without the thrill of black
humor.

> BTW, are you familiar with "A Walk with
Love and Death"?

Yes. I am fond of it. A medievalist friend
of mine said it was one of the most accurate
depictions of the Middle Ages she had ever
seen on film. I think of it as his "'60's youth
movie" which deserves to be better known
(but I feel that way about most of Huston).

Brian
26455  
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 8:43pm
Subject: Re: Re: Huston [Was: Golden Age Misunderstood]  cellar47


 
--- BklynMagus wrote:

>
> Certainly Huston thought so. In "An Open
> Book" he said if he lived his life over he
> wouldn't marry for the fifth time.

Snerk!

And the
> bedroom scene that ends "The Dead" is
> just as potent, but without the thrill of black
> humor.
>

Oh but it has the greater thrill of emotional
sincerity. Anjelica Huston collapsesin tears and we do
right along with her. Of course I was crying with the
opening credits -- knowing that this was the truly The
End. He died I think a month or so prior to the
premiere.

> > BTW, are you familiar with "A Walk with
> Love and Death"?
>
> Yes. I am fond of it. A medievalist friend
> of mine said it was one of the most accurate
> depictions of the Middle Ages she had ever
> seen on film. I think of it as his "'60's youth
> movie" which deserves to be better known
> (but I feel that way about most of Huston).
>


It was a cause celeb for "Positif," as I trust
jean-Pierre will rush right in and remind us. Anjelica
had major problemes with Dad during the shooting, and
seriously considered giving up acting altogether to
become a professional grilfriend. Thankfully she
changed her mind.

I'll never forget in "The Last Tycoon" her walking by
DeNiro as she leaves her house for a night out just as
he's come to pick up her roomie, Ingrid Boulting. I
felt like screaming "YOU'RE DATING THE WRONG GIRL!!!"
>

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26456  
From: BklynMagus
Date: Tue May 3, 2005 9:35pm
Subject: Re: The Dead (was Huston)  cinebklyn


 
David E. writes:

> Oh but it has the greater thrill of
emotional sincerity.

All set up by my favorite moment in
the Huston canon -- Angelica at the
bottom of the stairs listening to an
Irish tenor.

It is a perfect Huston moment:
beautifully composed and moving,
while at the same time we know that
the tenor is only singing to score
sexually with the serving girl.
And the song will remind Angelica of
a young boy she loved even more
than her husband, which love she will
confess to him.

The film then hands off to the husband,
a vision of future death (and the only
flash forward I know of in Huston) and
then the great line: "Snow was general
all over Ireland."

If one of today's directors had filmed it,
the camera would have swept up the
stairs past Angelica; done a 360 around
the tenor; gone out of the window to
catch Angelica and husband getting into
their hansom cab.

Once inside, the camera would have ping-
ponged back and forth between the two
(slightly out of focus). Once in the hotel
room, the line about snow would have
come from an actual radio, followed by a
pop tune that would comment ironically on
what the audience has just seen (gotta sell
those soundtracks).

Brian
26457  
From: "Gabe Klinger"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 0:27am
Subject: when sales agencies get greedy  gcklinger


 
According to the Tribeca Film Festival Industry Guide, Wong Kar-Wai's 2046 has
been sold to all territories, except the following (which the sales agency,
Fortissimo, is careful to list):

Afghanistan, Albania, Bahrain, Equatorial Guinea, Ex French/African Colonies, French
speaking Indian Ocean Territories, Iceland, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya,
Oman, Qatar, Republic of Yemen, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Syria, and United Arab Emir.
26458  
From: Mathieu Ricordi
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 0:52am
Subject: Old, Old Milius Post  mathieu_ricordi


 
Having recently come off the whirlwind of a major
disagreement and swashbuckle with Zach Campbell over
a certain Linklater film which we all know of, it feels wierd
to jump so quickly to praise, but by accident I came across
an old, old article he wrote on John Milius and "Conan the Barbarian"
dated Octover 17th, 2003 and find myself in need to congratulate
and offer a heartfelt appreciation.

I don't know if it is in the habits of most members of this
group to go back (way back in this case) and leaf through old stuff,
but Zach's post is worth it. Milius has for too long been tossed aside
as an old irrelevant macho dinasour and been the least appreciated
in his generation of directors. What Zach has done is look seriously
at a filmmaker who has been deemed unworthy of a serious critical look
and he has pulled it off very inteligently. Zach, I hope since
that post that you have been able to watch more of Milius's work
("Big Wednsesday" et al) and that you haven't lost your
will to analyze him. He needs more articulate/smart writers like
you working his case.

Mathieu Ricordi
26459  
From: MG4273@...
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 3:18am
Subject: Running Time (Josh Becker)  nzkpzq


 
Running Time (Josh Becker, 1997) is a film like Rope (Hitchcock). It is
filmed as a series of unbroken moving camera takes, which were then spliced
together in hopefully inconspicuous ways, such as a black screen caused by the back
of a man's coat, etc. The film was mentioned a long time ago here by Bill
Krohn, and I have just now caught up with it - it was shown yesterday on IFC cable
TV. I do not think Bill had seen the film - simply that he accurately posted
about its similarities to Rope.
Confess that it was rather underwhelming. For one thing, it is so unpleasant
as a movie. It is a heist film, and the characters are a gang of criminals who
combine stupidity in bungling their job with vicious personalities. So it is
not an evening of fun.
Second, the camera movements themselves are not that interesting. Much of the
film is shot inside a van, and the camera movements are pretty routine.
The best camera moves are in the true exteriors, around 20% or less of the
film. Here, watching the camera move through a pedestrian tunnel, or up and down
alleyways and side streets in Los Angeles, can be pretty interesting.
Many of the actual shots can be fairly short. They are usually not the sort
of nearly ten minute takes found in Rope.
The next year, comes "Big Monday" (Michael T. Rehfield, 1998). This is a
one-take film, following the hero all over New York City as he leisurely walks to
a job interview. It is vastly more interesting as a moving camera work. It
also anticipates "Russian Ark" (Sokurov, 2001) in being a feature all shot in one
long take (neither of these films have Rope-like breaks).

Mike Grost
26460  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 8:30am
Subject: Re: Old, Old Milius Post  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Mathieu Ricordi
wrote:
>
He needs more articulate/smart writers like
> you working his case.

Run, don't walk, to Tag Gallagher's Senses of Cinema piece on JM - at
least a year ago. Milius was honored in '03 with a complete retro at
Torino, for which I wrote a piece on his scripts for Apocalypse Now and
Kent Jones wrote on Big Wednesday, a favorite of mine too.
26461  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 8:33am
Subject: Re: Running Time (Josh Becker)  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> Running Time (Josh Becker, 1997) is a film like Rope (Hitchcock).

I do not think Bill had seen the film

I've seen 30 minutes. They ran out of ideas after Bruce Campbell exits
prison and gets laid in the van that picked him up. For Bruce Campbell
completists.
26462  
From: "Andy Rector"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 8:53am
Subject: Re: Old, Old Milius Post  kinoslang


 
> Run, don't walk, to Tag Gallagher's Senses of Cinema piece on JM -
at
> least a year ago.

I've looked for that piece. I couldn't find it. I don't think its
online.

-andy
26463  
From: "Aaron Graham"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 9:03am
Subject: Re: Old, Old Milius Post  machinegunmc...


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Rector" wrote:
>
> > Run, don't walk, to Tag Gallagher's Senses of Cinema piece on JM -
> at
> > least a year ago.
>
> I've looked for that piece. I couldn't find it. I don't think its
> online.
>
> -andy

...and this is where Fred's extremely helpful archive index comes into
play, as Tag posted the piece to the group in '03 ('bout halfway down):

http://www.fredcamper.com/afilmby/0002701.html
26464  
From: "thebradstevens"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 0:10pm
Subject: THE BIG RED ONE  thebradstevens


 
Picked up Warner Bros' UK DVD of THE BIG RED ONE yesterday, and spent
the evening going through it. First of all, it's a quite wonderful
package - I'd have happily paid the £15.99 it cost just to see
Richard Schickel's THE MEN WHO MADE THE MOVIES interview with Fuller
(from 1990). The two-disc set also includes a very interesting
documentary about the film, and a 30-minute promo reel. The latter
(which probably dates from 1979) was one of the things that inspired
the restoration, since a good half of it consists of scenes that
didn't make it into the release version. (Incidentally, it begins
with a voiceover from Lee Marvin, who introduces himself with the
words "This is Lee Marvin again" - my guess would be that this promo
reel originally played after a promo for Lorimar's production of
AVALANCHE EXPRESS).

As to the restoration itself, the film has so obviously been improved
that it seems petty to quibble. But for one thing, there seems no
good reason to have retained the narration (added by Jim McBride
after the film had been taken away from Fuller), which, even in the
cut version, frequently did little more than tell us things that were
blatantly obvious. (Did we really need a voiceover informing us that
Marvin's character had returned to the place where he killed a German
soldier just after the end of World War 1? Wasn't this perfectly
clear from the onscreen imagery?) It also attempts to pin down
exactly what is happening, and where it is taking place - but surely
Fuller's point is that the soldiers often had no idea what was going
on, or even what country they were in. One scene not included in
either the original film or this restoration, but included in the
deleted scenes section on the DVD, shows that only Lee Marvin's
character is aware of the fact that the squad has left France and
entered Belgium.

Which brings me to the 30 minutes of deleted scenes on disc 2.
Annoyingly, it is only possible to play these scenes with a
commentary track by Bryan McKenzie and Brian Hamblin. The reasons
given for excluding this material from the restoration seem
questionable at best: the problem of editing these sections with the
footage available is raised several times, but most of the assembled
scenes look just fine to me. Frequently, it would appear that these
scenes were rejected on no better grounds than the fact that McKenzie
and Hamblin (and, presumably, Richard Schickel) happened to
personally dislike them (which, ironically, gives them something in
common with those Lorimar executives who butchered the film back in
1980). And some of the reasons given for not using this stuff are
totally ludicrous: scenes were apparently rejected because Fuller
shot a master but no coverage, though anyone who is at all responsive
to Fuller's style can see that they work very effectively without cut-
ins. And a scene in which Lee Marvin shoots an infiltrator (after
making him drop his pants) was apparently cut because, according to
the commentary, "To have two infiltrator scenes back-to-back would
have been difficult". Yet the repitition is clearly the whole point!
Marvin's anger during what should have been the following scene,
wherein an infiltrator is discovered in the hotel (included in the
restoration, but not the original release), now appears almost
completely unmotivated.

The promo reel includes part of the first infiltrator scene, as well
as a different edit of the scene in which Marvin spanks the young
Joseph Ratzinger (which actually plays better than the more heavily
edited version in the restoration). The promo reel also includes a
longer version of the scene in which Schroeder shoots Gerd. In both
the release version and the restoration, one passage of dialogue
plays as follows:

Gerd: "I want no more. I'm no damned Nazi fanatic like you. Germany
is through singing for Adolf Hitler."

But in the promo reel, the dialogue is as follows:

Gerd: "I want no more of the lost war. I'm no damned Nazi fanatic
like you."

Schroeder: "You didn't sing that song when we were winning."

Gerd: "Germany is through singing for Adolf Hitler."

The longer version of this scene is clearly superior. Schroeder here
comes across as a more complex character - whatever else he may be,
he's not a hypocrite.

So as much as I enjoyed watching this restoration, I have the feeling
that it would still be possible to put together a much more
satisfying version of the film.
26465  
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 1:07pm
Subject: Re: Running Time (Josh Becker)  jpcoursodon


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:

> The next year, comes "Big Monday" (Michael T. Rehfield, 1998).
This is a
> one-take film, following the hero all over New York City as he
leisurely walks to
> a job interview. It is vastly more interesting as a moving camera
work. It
> also anticipates "Russian Ark" (Sokurov, 2001) in being a feature
all shot in one
> long take (neither of these films have Rope-like breaks).
>
> Mike Grost

I strongly recommend "Big Monday" to all long take fetishists (and
New York West Side lovers). It's a technical tour de force and very
entertaining to boot.

The film starts with the hero" (the filmmaker) in his apartment
with his girlfriend as he dresses etc, follows him out and down
Broadway (he has a long, animated conversation with a friend as they
walk together) all the way to Grand Central Station, where all
sorts of interesting things happen. Shot in real time! JPC
26466  
From: Adrian Martin
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 1:24pm
Subject: Claire Denis Vienna retro + carte blanche  apmartin90


 
Dear friends - Just got the info from the Austrian Filmmuseum about
their Claire Denis retro this month. It's a complete list of her films
- including a true rarity, her first short MAY 15, made when she was a
student in 1969, based on a Philip K Dick story! - including of course
the various other shorts, music docos, etc. Also a book in German,
CLAIRE DENIS: TROUBLE EVERY DAY, eds. Isabella Reicher & Michael
Omasta.

The 'carte blanche' selection by CD is quite interesting:
LE PETIT SOLDAT (naturally)
LA BETE HUMAINE (Renoir)
TABU (Murnau)
FEAT EATS THE SOUL (Fassbinder)
LE PONT DU NORD (Rivette)
WINTER'S CHILD (Assayas)
SWEET SWEETBACK'S BAADASSSSS SONG (Van Peebles)
COCKFIGHTER (Hellman)
LA CHIENNE (Renoir)
THE DAY A PIG FELL INTO THE WELL (Hong Sang-soo)
THE BIRTH OF LOVE (Garrel)
MERRY CHRISTMAS MR LAWRENCE (Oshima)

Such excellent taste!

Adrian
26467  
From: Adrian Martin
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 1:59pm
Subject: re: THE BIG RED ONE  apmartin90


 
The BIG RED restoration had a brief theatrical release here in
Australia on a huge screen, and it was really something fantastic to
see (even if stuff like smoke and sand tend to 'dematerialise' somewhat
in the digitally processed image). However, like Brad, I did find
myself quibbling with some aspects of the restoration. Finally, in
virtually every case of restoration so far, we are dealing (inevitably,
I guess) with someone's (sometimes not the director's, especially if
she/he is dead!) aesthetic judgments about what will 'work' in the new
version, and - as Brad rightly indicates - these may often be rather
normative, Hollywood-laden judgments. However, at least it's good that
the still 'discarded' material has been made available on DVD.

Something that struck me comparing the 1980 cut to the new one (I
rewatched the video of the old version straight after seeing the
restoration) is a simple thing which I don't think many critics have
noted outright: one of the principle criteria in play in the 1980 edit
of Fuller's material was to take out SEX AND VIOLENCE elements.
Violence like the gruesome ear-cutting scene. And a lot of sexual
elements: the famous 'castration' scene is much more explicit now, and
when that sex scene between Audran and the guy from the spaceships
movie came on, I almost fell out of my seat! Of course, it seems to be
the final hour of Fuller's material which suffered most in 1980. He
made a comment at that time (to Australian critic Tom Ryan, an
excellent in-depth interview in CINEMA PAPERS) that, because the film
was episodic in form, 'any scene either in or out of the movie could be
replaced by a dozen others' (non-verbatim quote from memory) - and this
reflects, apart from Fuller having to promote a film he didn't have
final-cut on, the actual problems even he would have had to grapple
with, all the way to the final mix, with the structuring and shaping of
such a 'mosaic' work. On that level, it now makes an intriguing double
with Malick's THE THIN RED LINE (another mosaic combat-movie
extensively shaped and reshaped in post-production, this time with the
director's final cut) - in fact, I think Malick's film has 'primed', in
a positive way, audiences of today to appreciate BIG RED ONE, even if
the two works are finally very different.

Adrian
26468  
From: "thebradstevens"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 4:56pm
Subject: Re: Claire Denis Vienna retro + carte blanche  thebradstevens


 
> The 'carte blanche' selection by CD is quite interesting:
> LE PETIT SOLDAT (naturally)
> LA BETE HUMAINE (Renoir)
> TABU (Murnau)
> FEAT EATS THE SOUL (Fassbinder)
> LE PONT DU NORD (Rivette)
> WINTER'S CHILD (Assayas)
> SWEET SWEETBACK'S BAADASSSSS SONG (Van Peebles)
> COCKFIGHTER (Hellman)
> LA CHIENNE (Renoir)
> THE DAY A PIG FELL INTO THE WELL (Hong Sang-soo)
> THE BIRTH OF LOVE (Garrel)
> MERRY CHRISTMAS MR LAWRENCE (Oshima)
>
> Such excellent taste!

Indeed! With a Ferrara film, this list would be perfect. Interesting
that she includes COCKFIGHTER. I've never managed to see Denis'
cockfighting film, S'EN FOUT LA MORT, which (like COCKFIGHTER itself)
is banned in the UK.

Has L'INTRUS been released anywhere? It turned up on ARTE a couple of
weeks ago, but I can't recall hearing anything about a theatrical
release.
26469  
From: "Ruy Gardnier"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 5:21pm
Subject: L'Intrus (was: Claire Denis Vienna retro)  ruygardnier


 
It's Denis' most abstract film (narrative-wise). And a great one, possibly
her best, much closer to Beau Travail than J'ai pas sommeil or Trouble Every
Day (although the man-as-animal thing from TED is right there in the new
one). I saw it twice in Festival do Rio because I knew they were the only
opportunities I'd have to see the film on film for a very long time. When I
talked to Nicolas Klotz in São Paulo's Mostra he told me that Denis was
re-remixing the film, possibly doing a recut, but I don't know if that's
true. As L'Intrus is a very difficult film to follow as a narrative, I think
they'll have trouble selling it overseas, let alone Brazil (Trouble Every
Day will only get a theatrical release in Brazil next month).
Ruy

From: "thebradstevens"
> Has L'INTRUS been released anywhere? It turned up on ARTE a couple of
> weeks ago, but I can't recall hearing anything about a theatrical
> release.
26470  
From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 5:28pm
Subject: Re: Re: Claire Denis Vienna retro + carte blanche  jontakagi


 
On 5/4/05, thebradstevens wrote:

> Has L'INTRUS been released anywhere? It turned up on ARTE a couple of
> weeks ago, but I can't recall hearing anything about a theatrical
> release.

It comes out today in France. There's plenty of coverage at Le Monde
(with a Michel Subor interview) and Libération (with Denis doing the
key date thing).

Jonathan Takagi
26471  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 6:16pm
Subject: Re: THE BIG RED ONE  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Adrian Martin wrote:

He
> made a comment at that time (to Australian critic Tom Ryan, an
> excellent in-depth interview in CINEMA PAPERS) that, because the film
> was episodic in form, 'any scene either in or out of the movie could
be
> replaced by a dozen
He may have been thinking about how he would have done it. The plan was
a feature and a miniseries, and the miniseries would have been what's
in the script, without a lot of moving-around. I'm told that everything
in the script is there now except one scene. I regret the presence of
even the reduced v.o. and would love to hear what it sounds like with
Beethoven and Wagner, but the score isn't such a distraction - the v.o.
is. Apart from that, I'm thrilled to have the film in this form and
can't wait to see the DVD.

As with all restorations, the important thing to do now is to try to
understand the film as a film, and not as the climax of a hard luck
dstory with a happy ending. In this case, besides the
inevitable "restoration effect," critics are being somewhat inhibited
by the Jim McBride voiceover doing their thinking for them, even if Jim
did take it all from the book. We have to make a small effort to ignore
it - it wd have been so easy to make it "optional" on the DVD - and try
to react to the film as freshly as we can. Very little has been written
along those lines except Daney's article on the cut-down version after
seeing it at Cannes.
26472  
From: "thebradstevens"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 6:18pm
Subject: Re: Claire Denis Vienna retro + carte blanche  thebradstevens


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Takagi
wrote:
>
> It comes out today in France.

But it was on ARTE a few days ago. ARTE is a French channel. I've
never heard of a film being screened on television a few days prior
to its theatrical release!
26473  
From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 6:22pm
Subject: Re: Re: Claire Denis Vienna retro + carte blanche  jontakagi


 
On 5/4/05, thebradstevens wrote:

> But it was on ARTE a few days ago. ARTE is a French channel. I've
> never heard of a film being screened on television a few days prior
> to its theatrical release!

This happens all the time with ARTE, I suppose it's when they produce
the film. They did this with "Chats perchés", the most recent Chris Marker
film. I also remember them doing this with Mathieu Amalric's feature
"La Chose publique".

There's an article in today's Libération about Steven Soderbergh signing
a deal to make films that will be released simultaneously in the theatre,
on DVD, over the internet and on cable TV. They cited Eric Rohmer, who
had allowed "Le Rayon vert" to be screened on Canal + prior to its
theatrical premiere.

Jonathan Takagi
26474  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 6:28pm
Subject: Re: THE BIG RED ONE  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "thebradstevens"
wrote:


> > Which brings me to the 30 minutes of deleted scenes on disc 2.
> Annoyingly, it is only possible to play these scenes with a
> commentary track by Bryan McKenzie and Brian Hamblin. The reasons
> given for excluding this material from the restoration seem
> questionable at best: the problem of editing these sections with
the
> footage available is raised several times, but most of the
assembled
> scenes look just fine to me.

I wasn't aware of the deleted scenes - I thought they included
everything they could. I was told that the pants-dropping scene had
no sound. I heard nothing about the scene telling us that only Marvin
knows they've crossed a border, which does call attention to a bad
restoration decision to include title cards - one that they were
warned against. Your comments about scenes in the promo and the
restoration are very interesting, too. As for not using scenes that
play in master, I had explained to Schickel that Sam often did that
kind of fast coverage and used optical closeups to cut in - something
Joe Dante, who finished editing White Dog, had pointed out to me.
(There are noticeable grainy cu's in China Gate, for instance.) Joe
didn't like the editing in the restoration, and will probably be even
more pissed of when he has a chance to examine the DVD, as you have
done with great acuity. But a whole loaf without raisins is better
than half a loaf. Maybe some Phantom Editor will take what's there
and improve on it now. (Hint, hint!)
26475  
From: "thebradstevens"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 6:29pm
Subject: Re: THE BIG RED ONE  thebradstevens


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
I'm told that everything
> in the script is there now except one scene.

By 'there', do you mean there in the restoration, or 'there' on the
DVD? Because there are a large number of complete scenes that only
appear in the 'deleted scenes' section of the DVD: the Vichy Command
sequence (a full 8 minutes); the Sergeant showing Griff's drawing to
a general; the death of Minnow; the Sergeant arguing with a
Lieutenant; the death of Shep; Vinci believing that he has killed his
own grandmother; an encounter with the Belgian underground; the
Sergeant executing an infiltrator - plus various other fragments.
26476  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 6:29pm
Subject: Re: Claire Denis Vienna retro + carte blanche  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Adrian Martin wrote:

> THE DAY A PIG FELL INTO THE WELL (Hong Sang-soo)

She wrote a piece on Hong Sang-soo for the CdC Korean hors-serie.
26477  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 6:34pm
Subject: Re: Claire Denis Vienna retro + carte blanche  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "thebradstevens"
wrote:

I've never managed to see Denis'
> cockfighting film, S'EN FOUT LA MORT, which (like COCKFIGHTER itself)
> is banned in the UK.

I saw it in Paris at a press screening w. Olivier A. when it was first
coming out - it's what got me interested in CD. It's good, but more
conventional than the later work.
26478  
From: "thebradstevens"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 6:34pm
Subject: Re: THE BIG RED ONE  thebradstevens


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:

> I wasn't aware of the deleted scenes - I thought they included
> everything they could. I was told that the pants-dropping scene had
> no sound.

What absolute bullshit! It's even included in the promo reel!!!!

>had explained to Schickel that Sam often did that
> kind of fast coverage and used optical closeups to cut in

He also frequently let scenes play as long single takes.

>Maybe some Phantom Editor will take what's there
> and improve on it now. (Hint, hint!)

Ah, if only it were possible to play those deleted scenes without the
commentary.
26479  
From: "Ruy Gardnier"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 7:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: Claire Denis Vienna retro + carte blanche  ruygardnier


 
It's not an hors-série, it's number 597 (january 2005).

From: "hotlove666"


> > THE DAY A PIG FELL INTO THE WELL (Hong Sang-soo)
>
> She wrote a piece on Hong Sang-soo for the CdC Korean hors-serie.
26480  
From: "thebradstevens"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 10:37pm
Subject: Re: THE BIG RED ONE  thebradstevens


 
>But a whole loaf without raisins is better
> than half a loaf.

But imagine specifically ordering a loaf with raisins, and then
discovering that the baker has decided to sell you a loaf without
raisins, simply because he personally doesn't happen to like raisins.
26481  
From: MG4273@...
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 7:17pm
Subject: Big Monday (Michael T. Rehfield, 1998) (was Running Time)  nzkpzq


 
In a message dated 05-05-04 09:09:10 EDT, JPC writes:

<< I strongly recommend "Big Monday" to all long take fetishists (and
New York West Side lovers). It's a technical tour de force and very
entertaining to boot.

The film starts with the hero (the filmmaker) in his apartment
with his girlfriend as he dresses etc, follows him out and down
Broadway (he has a long, animated conversation with a friend as they
walk together) all the way to Grand Central Station, where all
sorts of interesting things happen. Shot in real time! JPC >>

Whole heartedly agree!
The camera movements in this film are so graceful. And they reach one of
their best climaxes in the train station section, where they positively dance.
It is of great visual interest to see a whole feature film shot in one take.
There will be more films like this and "Russian Ark" - but this was where it
all started.

Mike Grost
26482  
From: MG4273@...
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 7:32pm
Subject: Band of Outsiders + Rossellini, Jia  nzkpzq


 
Just saw my favorite Godard film again, "Band of Outsiders". Was deeply
struck by the scenes wandering all over the zone near the aunt's house. The
exteriors here seem delightfully maze like, an intricate procession of paths,
waterways, fences, yards, walls, hollows and rises, alleys and roads. The characters
wander through all of these.
A query: where is this? Roud's Godard book says its a "suburb of Paris". Gee,
I could have guessed it wasn't Vilnius or Ulan Bator. Does this place have a
name? Someone refers to "The Isle of the Ravens"...
Secondly, the whole style of the sequence reminds one of Rossellini. There
are similar paths through yards and walls in the village in Stromboli; in the
mill where the heroine takes the Americans in the opening of Paisan; in the
ruins through which Bergman and Sanders walk in Strangers.
Last, just saw my first Jia: "Platform". This too reminded one of Godard &
Rossellini. The young characters are often wandering through city wall areas and
old building yards which bear a resemblance to these earlier filmmakers.

Mike Grost
26483  
From: "Gabe Klinger"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 11:35pm
Subject: Re: Claire Denis Vienna retro + carte blanche  gcklinger


 
I heart Claire Denis. At least two of her films -- BEAU TRAVAIL and JACQUES RIVETTE: LE
VEILLEUR -- are among my all-time favorites. And her career is still in its birth -- or
perhaps L'INTRUS, her wildest film, is a new step. Personally, I hope there will be more like
it. After the Venice and Toronto premieres, the film needed some ardent defending. Now it
seems to be well-liked. One critic, who shall remain nameless, did not like it because it
"didn't make any sense". Claire Denis seems one step ahead of us all the time -- she is a
visionary, and needs visionary critics to defend her. I can't imagine why any critic who
liked FRIDAY NIGHT or TROUBLE EVERY DAY would be "disappointed" by L'INTRUS. It's a
wilder animal; it takes more stamina to keep up with it; but it's not a film that pronounces
itself differently than her previous work. In FRIDAY NIGHT we have a story of a sexual
encounter that's not ever verbalized but only told in broad movements. Perhaps it was
familiar to some people because they could say it's a "love story". The same people can say
TROUBLE EVERY DAY is a horror movie, etc. But what can they say about L'INTRUS? They
have no way to categorize it.
Claire Denis is also one of the most unique filmmakers I have ever witnessed in person.
Aside from her impeccable fashion sense, she has a very calm demeanor that helps to
make her q&a sessions a great pleasure.
Again, I heart Claire Denis. I am jealous of those who will be able to see the retrospective
in Vienna.
Gabe
26484  
From: MG4273@...
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 7:38pm
Subject: Raisins (was: THE BIG RED ONE)  nzkpzq


 
Now that we are knee deep in raisin metaphors, it reminds one that the
favorite commercial of nearly everyone in the United States a dozen years ago was
for California Raisins. This was claymation, and it showed the raisins coming
out and singing and dancing in a circle.
Also liked Gladys Knight on the Muppet Show, singing "I Head It Through the
Grapevine" with a bunch of Muppet grapes singing along behind her.
Not to mention Carol Burnett in that parody of Dallas-style soap operas,
"Fresno", set in "the raisin capital of the United States."

Mike Grost
26485  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 11:50pm
Subject: Re: THE BIG RED ONE  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "thebradstevens"
wrote:
> >But a whole loaf without raisins is better
> > than half a loaf.
>
> But imagine specifically ordering a loaf with raisins, and then
> discovering that the baker has decided to sell you a loaf without
> raisins, simply because he personally doesn't happen to like
raisins.

I need to correct one thing I said. I think Schickel told me that the
first infiltrator scene was cut because it was too similar to the
other one. (I understand your reasons for thinking not, but he did
tell me his.) The no-sound material was a lot of shots of the 4 guys
charging through corridors - presumably shot MOS, presumably intended
for something like the laybrinth at Mindanao and the one at the end
of Street.

He did give what I was telling him some thought - that's why he told
me that after going over everything with his editor, he was sure
they'd done it the best they could, that every scripted scene was in
etc. At the same time HE was doing it, putting his name on it and
Warners' money into it, and he wasn't about to let anyone else make
decisions for him. I can well understand that, even if I disagree
strongly about the voiceover decisison. (They did slenderize it.)
I'll reserve further carping from the sidelines till I see the DVD.

But yes, to quote Tony Bozanich, "Beethoven and Wagner may be a bad
idea" (even Luc Moullet, who compared the opening of Verboten! to
Once More with Feeling, might have thought so), but "it's Sam's bad
idea."
26486  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 11:57pm
Subject: Re: THE BIG RED ONE  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "thebradstevens"
wrote:

> I'm told that everything
> > in the script is there now except one scene.
>
> By 'there', do you mean there in the restoration, or 'there' on the
> DVD?

The latter. It's news to me that the scenes you mention were cut out,
although I do recall the grandmother-under-the-tank scene from hearing
Sam tell it..
26487  
From: "thebradstevens"
Date: Thu May 5, 2005 0:04am
Subject: Re: THE BIG RED ONE  thebradstevens


 
>
> He did give what I was telling him some thought - that's why he
told
> me that after going over everything with his editor, he was sure
> they'd done it the best they could, that every scripted scene was in

So what were all those deleted scenes on the DVD? Improvised?


> etc. At the same time HE was doing it, putting his name on it and
> Warners' money into it, and he wasn't about to let anyone else make
> decisions for him.

In other words, he had EXACTLY the same attitude as those Lorimar
execs who fucked up the film in the first place!
26488  
From: "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
Date: Thu May 5, 2005 0:34am
Subject: Re: THE BIG RED ONE  dreyertati


 
I can well understand that, even if I disagree
> strongly about the voiceover decisison. (They did slenderize it.)
> I'll reserve further carping from the sidelines till I see the DVD.
>
> But yes, to quote Tony Bozanich, "Beethoven and Wagner may be a
bad
> idea" (even Luc Moullet, who compared the opening of Verboten! to
> Once More with Feeling, might have thought so), but "it's Sam's
bad
> idea."

When I did a q & a with Schickel about his version at the Chicago
film festival, I brought up the issue of retaining the narration,
and Brad's right--his justification was basically a matter
of "clarifying" that mainly sounded like obeying certain Hollywood
norms (another version of why, according to Michael Dawson, Welles's
OTHELLO allegedly needed a new soundtrack). But an even bigger issue
for me was why Sam always described his cut as so much longer than
the film is now--and the extras on the DVD (which I haven't yet
seen) seems to account for most of this. And I must say that I
respect Schickel more for enabling us to look over his shoulder by
including this much of what he left out. (Similarly, I would have
respected Spielberg more regarding A.I. if he'd made Kubrick's
treatment available; the storyboards aren't nearly enough.)

I know that Christa Fuller supports the Schickel version, but it's
hard to tell how much this is a matter of being grateful that it
finally got done in some form at all.

Jonathan
26489  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Thu May 5, 2005 1:00am
Subject: Re: THE BIG RED ONE  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
wrote:
> I can well understand that, even if I disagree
his justification was basically a matter
> of "clarifying" that mainly sounded like obeying certain Hollywood
> norms

Right. The whole point is that the film should be a little confusing
(Sam: "We never knew where the hell we were") and raise questions.
The music is harmless, even if he didn't like it, but I believe that
the whole experience of seeing it without cards and narration would
be very different - it wouldn't be by the H'wd playbook, but for some
audiences (not necessarily just filmbuffs) it would be mind-blowing.

And it does sound like the deleted scenes may account for the
discrepancies w. Sam's stated running time. When I spoke to Danny
Selznick, who saw the rough cut, he said it was around 4 and he
thought the finished film would have weighed in at 3,45, and would
have been very good at that length. Maybe the connective tissue
wasn't there. They didn't have the shot of the Countess's pearls
falling, for example, so they did a cutaway with a sound effect.
Other decisions may have been made for good reasons, and for bad ones.

The thing that pisses me off is the narration on the DVD (a sin
compounded by having the commentary glued to the lifts), where it wd
be so easy to have a no-narration option on the menu. I almost picked
up the phone a couple of times to suggest it, but they had this
whole "Mother, I'd rather do it myself" thing going. I even offered
to have Joe Dante, who after all helped edit the film after BRO, come
in and take a look. Believe me, when we did It's All True, we asked
for advice wherever we could get it - Scorsese, Murch, Howard Smith,
a brilliant editor who had a big impact on the 4 Men cut just by
spending 2 hrs at the Avid with Ed, who was in awe of his skills and
happy to avail himself of them...
26490  
From: "Zach Campbell"
Date: Thu May 5, 2005 1:23am
Subject: Re: Old, Old Milius Post  rashomon82


 
> I came across an old, old article he wrote on John Milius
> and "Conan the Barbarian"
> dated Octover 17th, 2003 and find myself in need to congratulate
> and offer a heartfelt appreciation.

Thanks, Mathieu. I haven't been able yet to gather together videos of
his work and look through it properly, though I have seen BIG
WEDNESDAY since writing that post. (Liked it, though not as much as
THE WIND AND THE LION and CONAN THE BARBARIAN.) Too bad his current
projects seem to be in production or distribution limbo, last I
checked ...

--Zach
26491  
From: "Brian Charles Dauth"
Date: Thu May 5, 2005 1:30am
Subject: Re: Claire Denis Vienna retro + carte blanche  cinebklyn


 
> But what can they say about L'INTRUS?
They have no way to categorize it.

I do. LOL.

But seriously. I would appreciate it if Gabe and/or
another member(s) could make an argument for
"L'Intrus." I liked Denis' films up to and including
"Beau Travail," but since then I see a career in a
tailspin of theory and pretension.

"L'Intrus" was not boring exactly, it was just blah.
It seemed like a movie made by a film professor who
decided what shape it would take at the last possible
moment as she assembled it in the editing room in
order to illustrate a theory.

"L'Intrus" also seemed patronizing toward the
inhabitants of the island at the end of the film. I
felt she was snickering at their approach to life.

Claire Denis may be one step ahead of us, but for
me the question is whether or not her path is
leading movies down a blind alley of solipsism and
self-referential theorizing.

Brian

PS. As I write this I am watching "Fantastic Voyage"
on Fox, and you know what: for me it is more visionary
than "L'Intrus" and also a helluva lot more fun (I often
suspect that many contemporary filmmakers are so full
of theory, that they have lost sight of -- and are even
hostile to -- the joyful aspects of cinema. A miniaturized
Raquel Welch being attacked by antibodies -- who could
ask for more? LOL).
26492  
From: Adam Lemke
Date: Thu May 5, 2005 1:34am
Subject: Re: Re: THE BIG RED ONE  moviemiser412


 
How do people feel about the reworking of the soundtrack? Watching the
extras on the DVD, they appear to make the point that there isn¹t an
original ³gunshot² in the film. Everything was completely recreated to make
the film a Dolby Digital picture‹one that could sound like a battle was
taking place in the theater. It appears that all the effects were well
researched, but I wonder how Sam would have felt about this. I¹d bet his ear
was able to tell the difference between the sound of an American M-1 rifle
and a German MP, where I just hear a ³bang.²

-Adam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
26493  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Thu May 5, 2005 1:44am
Subject: Re: Old, Old Milius Post  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Zach Campbell"
wrote:

Too bad his current
> projects seem to be in production or distribution limbo, last I
> checked ...
>
His last picture was Motorcycle Gang, an AIP remake for Showtime that's
out on video. Someone sent me an interview from a gamer mag: He just
created a WWII videogame and would like to do more.
26494  
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Thu May 5, 2005 1:58am
Subject: Re: Band of Outsiders + Rossellini, Jia  jpcoursodon


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> Just saw my favorite Godard film again, "Band of Outsiders". Was
deeply
> struck by the scenes wandering all over the zone near the aunt's
house. The
> exteriors here seem delightfully maze like, an intricate
procession of paths,
> waterways, fences, yards, walls, hollows and rises, alleys and
roads. The characters
> wander through all of these.
> A query: where is this? Roud's Godard book says its a "suburb of
Paris". Gee,
>

Mike, I have no idea where Godard shot it, but I can tell you it
is typical of every suburb of Paris I knew (and I was born and
raised in them) -- Those suburbs are bleakly and wonderfully
photogenic, in a Feuillade kind of way. The one foreign director who
caught their look and mood beautifully was Peter Handke in the
wonderful "The Left-Handed Woman" (I am familiar with the locations,
which may have slightly influenced my admiration for the film)).

Today the concept of "suburbs" in France is thoroughly different,
because it refers to immigrant minorities and hig crime whereas in
my days it meant middle class. (I'm simplyfying because this is
probably borderline OT). JPC
26495  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Thu May 5, 2005 2:02am
Subject: Re: THE BIG RED ONE  hotlove666


 
Let me add that Schickel isn't a mogul or even a conventional
producer type - he's a critic, whose limitations are the limitations
of his criticism. He's very good on content - for example, when I was
writing a piece on Grant and Hitchcock for Variety, Schickel's
discussion in a text he wrote for a picture book on Grant was the
best thing I found. No cliches, very acute on the hero's misogyny in
To Catch a Thief, etc. And he was quite pleased to put back all
the "weird shit" that makes The Big Red One a Fuller film, whether it
displeased the studio or not - the very stuff Lorimar was at pains to
eliminate.

But this film, and other Fuller films, aren't just about that. You
have to understand their form, which is at least as subversive as
their content. (I recently described a Fuller film in Cineaste as an
ice mountain no one can scale to plant an ideological flag at the
summit.) In this case, having no cards or narration mattered a great
deal on a level that Schickel might appreciate if he saw it in a
theatre, but might be hesitant about adopting when he's doing a
restoration because it's not something he thinks about consciously or
writes about. (He told me this was his first and last!) It's not part
of his practice.

Granted, The Brad's point about two infiltrators being better than
one is a content point, because it would set up Marvin's rage in the
dinner scene, but it's also about how the film is made and how it
works, and even good American critics often don't write about that -
except when they are second-guessing the screenwriter - because it's
assumed that only specialized audiences care about it. So that level
of filmmaking - which is where the Something Else inheres - may not
be accessible to the preconscious mind of a mainstream-critic-turned-
restorer.
26496  
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Thu May 5, 2005 2:08am
Subject: Re: Claire Denis Vienna retro + carte blanche  jpcoursodon


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Charles Dauth"
wrote:

>
> PS. As I write this I am watching "Fantastic Voyage"
> on Fox, and you know what: for me it is more visionary
> than "L'Intrus" and also a helluva lot more fun (I often
> suspect that many contemporary filmmakers are so full
> of theory, that they have lost sight of -- and are even
> hostile to -- the joyful aspects of cinema. A miniaturized
> Raquel Welch being attacked by antibodies -- who could
> ask for more? LOL).

What a coincidence! I hear from usually reliable sources that Denis
is planning a remake of "Fantastic Voyage" (not with Raquel Welch,
though). Another intruder, attacked by antibodies. We definitely
should pay attention toanything from a director with an "impeccable
fashion sense." So few of them around.
26497  
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Thu May 5, 2005 2:18am
Subject: Re: Claire Denis Vienna retro + carte blanche  hotlove666


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Charles Dauth"
wrote:
>
> "L'Intrus" also seemed patronizing toward the
> inhabitants of the island at the end of the film. I
> felt she was snickering at their approach to life.

I know at least one person with a good nose who thinks Chocolat is
racist. I'd have to see it again. And I haven't seen the last 3 -
just the beginning of Trouble, since it's a slasher. (J'ai pas
sommeil has an honest-to-goodness serial killer.)

> PS. As I write this I am watching "Fantastic Voyage"
> on Fox, and you know what: for me it is more visionary
> than "L'Intrus" and also a helluva lot more fun

Fleischer is really coming into his own these days.

A miniaturized
> Raquel Welch being attacked by antibodies -- who could
> ask for more?

That scene has always been much appreciated.

On the other hand, I think JPC is kidding about Denis doing a
remake. She's adventurous, but....
26498  
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Thu May 5, 2005 2:32am
Subject: Re: Re: Claire Denis Vienna retro + carte blanche  cellar47


 
--- hotlove666 wrote:

>
> On the other hand, I think JPC is kidding about
> Denis doing a
> remake. She's adventurous, but....
>
>
>

Maybe not. I can see it now -- Michel Subor attacked
by antibodies.



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26499  
From: MG4273@...
Date: Wed May 4, 2005 10:45pm
Subject: Fantastic Voyage (Fleischer)  nzkpzq


 
Just saw Fantastic Voyage (Fleischer) tonight too - it was shown letterboxed
on Fox Movie Chanel (both in Brooklyn and Detroit). The first scene in the
blood stream is awesome. It is a mixture of avant-garde abstract filming, and
representational film. The corpuscles are waving around in the air, like giant 3D
abstractions come to life and motion.
"The Six Red "K" Perils of Supergirl" (Action Comics #283, December 1961) is
a comic book tale about miniature humans and the human body, five years before
this film. It was written by the most important writer in comic book history,
Jerry Siegel.
This film is unusually idealistic. It is full of wonder about the
possibilities of life, science, nature. We definitely need more of this spirit today.

Mike Grost
26500  
From: "jpcoursodon"
Date: Thu May 5, 2005 3:00am
Subject: Re: Claire Denis Vienna retro + carte blanche  jpcoursodon


 
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
>
> --- hotlove666 wrote:
>
> >
> > On the other hand, I think JPC is kidding about
> > Denis doing a
> > remake. She's adventurous, but....
> >
> >
> >
>
> Maybe not. I can see it now -- Michel Subor attacked
> by antibodies.
>
>
> David always gets it right... But I'm afraid I was in one of
my silly Maurice Burnan moods. With apologies to Claire Denis
cultists. JPC
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> Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it
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