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Posts From the Internet Film Discussion Group, a_film_by

This group is dedicated to discussing film as art from an auteurist perspective. The index to these files of posts can be found at http://www.fredcamper.com/afilmby/ The purpose of these files is to make our posts more accessible, for downloading and reading and to search engines.

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4601

From:
Date: Sun Nov 23, 2003 9:46pm
Subject: Re: Film music

Bill writes:

> am I the only one
> who loved Jerry Goldsmith's score for Looney Tunes?

I loved it too! Did anyone else notice that Goldsmith snuck in a brief
excerpt from "The Gremlins Rag"?

Peter

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4602

From: Richard Modiano
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:54am
Subject: Re: Curtis Harrington

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Fred Camper wrote:
>
> Curiously, I don't like his 1940s avant-garde films very much. They
have
> all the trappings of avant-garde films of that period -- the
influences
> from surrealism; the theme of the seeker -- but visually they
aren't
> very interesting.
> - Fred

Although I haven't seen any of Harrington's early avant-garde films I
always thought that NIGHT TIDE had affinities with what Sitney
called "the trance film" (I presume that phrase originated with P.
Adams.) I had hypothosized that NIGHT TIDE was a kind of bridge
between American avant-garde films and commercial films because of
the treatment of mytho-poeic sailor-siren theme. Fred, do you think
there's any merit to this line of thought?

Also, aside from his merits as a filmmaker, Harrington deserves the
gratitude of cinephiles for having found and preserved Whale's THE
OLD DARK HOUSE.

Richard
4603

From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:00am
Subject: Golan Globus

Maybe Godard, Mailer and Cassavetes ended up using their homes for
sets because G & G were cheap?

Let's not forget Raoul Ruiz's Treasure Island, which ended up being
coproduced by Anatole Dauman. I interviewed Raoul at the time - he
had been here 2 weeks expecting to see actors and hadn't seen one.
Instead he sat in his hotel and watched tv. He found the
televangelists and The Twilight Zone very interesting. Then he went
back, and before I knew it, the film had been made. I saw it finally
at the Paris Cinematheque with Luc Moullet, and all I remember is his
comment afterwards: "It's an interesting principle - banal images and
a strong soundtrack." I don't think it was one of RR's best. But it
was a Golan Globus film.
4604

From:
Date: Sun Nov 23, 2003 10:06pm
Subject: Love Streams, Top 10s

JPC,

The list of my 20 favorite films of all-time ("Love Streams" plus 19 others)
can be viewed in our group's Top 10 file. You can access it here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/a_film_by/files/

Currently we have lists for "the best of all-time" and list for the 2000s
online. Lists for earlier decades will be appearing shortly. And to anyone who
hasn't contributed lists yet, I encourage you to do so! (Read the "rules"
first and then e-mail me.)

I think "Love Streams" is simply Cassavetes' masterpiece.

Peter

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4605

From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:19am
Subject: Re: Re: Curtis Harrington

--- MG4273@a... wrote:
> Ratings for Harrington's feature length films:
> Night Tide (1960) Writer: Curtis Harrington ****
> The Four Elements (1965) (Documentary) Writer:
> Curtis Harrington (Not Seen)
> Voyage to the Prehistoric Planet (1965) Writer:
> Curtis Harrington;
> incorporates extensive footage from Planeta Bur /
> Planet of Storms (Pavel Klushantsev,
> 1962) (Seen, but this is mainly a paste-up of the
> remarkable special effects
> from this Russian film)
> Planet of Blood (1966) Writer: Curtis Harrington
> ****
> Games (1967) Writer: Gene Kearney, based on a story
> by George Edwards and
> Curtis Harrington ****
> How Awful About Allan (1970) (September 22, 1970)
> Writer: Henry Farrell,
> based on his 1963 novel ****
> What's the Matter With Helen (1971) Writer: Henry
> Farrell ***
> Who Slew Auntie Roo? (1972) ****
> The Killing Kind (1973) (not seen)
> The Cat Creature (1973) (December 11, 1973) Writer:
> Robert Bloch, based on a
> story by Bloch, Douglas Cramer & Wilford Lloyd
> Baumes ***1/2
> Killer Bees (1974) *1/2 (although I'd like to see it
> again!)
> The Dead Don't Die (1975) (January 14, 1975) Writer:
> Robert Bloch, based on
> Bloch's 1953 novella **1/2 (great scene in a funeral
> parlor)
> Ruby (1977) ** (apparently much not directed by
> Harrington)
> Devil Dog: The Hound of Hell (1978) *
> Mata Hari (1985) *** (the first half is ****, the
> second half is weaker)
>
> Among Harrington's TV series episodes I've seen:
>
> Baretta
> · Set-Up City (October 29, 1975) Writer: Michael
> Butler **
>
> Logan's Run
> · Stargate (February 6, 1978) Writer: Dennis O'Neill
> *
> Sword of Justice
> · The Executioners (October 14, 1978) *1/2
>
> Vegas
> · Kill Dan Tanna (January 10, 1979) Writer: Larry
> Forrester ****
> (haunting, beautiful, poetic and original!)
>

"The Killing Kind" has been highly reccomended to me
as a psychological thriller.

Curtis also directed episodes of "Dynasty."

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4606

From: Fred Camper
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:24am
Subject: Re: Re: Curtis Harrington

Richard Modiano wrote:

>---
>
>....I always thought that NIGHT TIDE had affinities with what Sitney
>called "the trance film".....a kind of bridge
>between American avant-garde films and commercial films because of
>the treatment of mytho-poeic sailor-siren theme. Fred, do you think
>there's any merit to this line of thought?....
>

Yes, of course. Harrington has some "trance films" among his avant-garde
work too, but "Night Tide" is much better. But there's also a connection
between the trance film and film noir. I believe Paul Arthur has
explored this at length in a book I have not read. But something like
Arthur Ripley's "The Chase" has one great scene which is as trancy a
trance film sequence as anything in the avant-garde. And the nightmarish
world of many noirs also connects to some degree with the trance film.

- Fred

>
>
4607

From:
Date: Sun Nov 23, 2003 10:33pm
Subject: Re: Curtis Harrington: Ruby, Mata Hari, Dynasty

The only version of "Ruby" seen here was a reshot-by-another-director version
screened in theaters in the 1970's. Have not seen it since 1979. And did not
know that a more-or-less director's cut purportedly survives. This is good
news! The rating (**) in my previous post was for the 1970's release version.
Clearly, I have not seen the real "Ruby" at all yet!
"Mata Hari" (1985) is not an especially personal film, compared to "Night
Tide" for instance. It is a racy spy thriller, shot in Budapest, Hungary.
Especially during the first half, Harrington's camera has a field day exploring
various 19th Century Budapest locations, which stand for 1914 France, Germany,
Russia, etc. It is good to see Harrington's splendid gift for imagery gainfully
employed here. The film is not quite a unified work of art - it's sort of a
loose grab bag of scenes. But it also shows creativity and inventiveness. It seems
to exemplify the classic situation of an auteur given a commisioned
filmmaking opportunity not at all in line with their personal traditions, and trying to
make it an avenue of personal expression through mise-en-scene.
I also saw an interesting episode of Dynasty directed by Harrington, but am
unable to identify the episode title or date. Harrington made several episodes
of Aaron Spelling TV soaps and dramas such as Hotel, Dynasty and the Colbys in
the early 80's. The finale is a family dinner / reunion, in which all the
characters eat together.
Mike Grost
PS Have never seen Cassavetes' "Love Streams" - and really want to!
4608

From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:03am
Subject: Re: Curtis Harrington

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> Curtis Harrington has long seemed to be a Pantheon director.
> Like Sternberg and Tourneur, (the two directors his work most
resembles) he
> is a Pictorialist filmmaker: someone whose films are rich in visual
beauty and
> creativity.
> Mike Grost
> PS The Sarasota, Florida-based film historian / mystery writer
Stuart M.
> Kaminsky is a big admirer of Harrington's work. Kaminsky did an
article/ interview
> with Harrington in the 1970's, if memory serves.

If Harrington is a Pantheon director, I would think the Pantheon
is getting a bit overcrowded.

My old acolyte Pierre Sauvage wrote a short piece on Harrington
for Positif in 1975, and another one in our "American Directors"
(1982). We (Tavernier and I ) have an entry on him in "50 ans". I
haven't seen any of his films in a long time but based on my
memories, there are about 500 directors I'd put in the Pantheon
before him. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I should have said 100 directors.
JPC
4609

From: Jonathan Rosenbaum
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:03am
Subject: Re: where to find import DVDs

For example, I
> heard there was a R2 release of a bunch of Rhitwik
> Ghatak DVDs. Where could I find those? And are any
> Kiarostami documentaries available? I would buy a
> region free DVD player if I could find those.
>
> Thanks,
> Josh Mabe

I can answer both queries. Two Ghatak films are available on DVD from
the BFI in the UK, and the best Kiarostami documentary I've ever
seen, on the making of THE WIND WILL CARRY US, is available on the
French, MK2 2-disc set (with optional English subtitles), Actually,
there are two documentaries of interest on the second disc, but the
Japanese one about the shooting of the film is especially fine.
4610

From: Jonathan Rosenbaum
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:09am
Subject: Re: Golan Globus

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> Maybe Godard, Mailer and Cassavetes ended up using their homes for
> sets because G & G were cheap?

But don't forget that Cassavetes was already using his own home in
FACES and A WOMEN UNDER THE INFLUENCE, long before G & G produced
anything of his.
4611

From: jerome_gerber
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:13am
Subject: Re: where to find import DVDs

I believe the BFI is having difficulty fulfilling orders currently (at
least that's what their website states) and you will probably get
the Ghataks for less here...

http://www.bensons-world.co.uk/dvd/products/7/7000000073093
.asp

and here:

http://www.bensons-world.co.uk/dvd/products/7/7000000073092
.asp

They are a reliable etailer and I've been ordering from them for
over two years...and I live in the States.

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
wrote:
> For example, I
> > heard there was a R2 release of a bunch of Rhitwik
> > Ghatak DVDs. Where could I find those? And are any
> > Kiarostami documentaries available? I would buy a
> > region free DVD player if I could find those.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Josh Mabe
>
>
> I can answer both queries. Two Ghatak films are available on
DVD from
> the BFI in the UK, and the best Kiarostami documentary I've
ever
> seen, on the making of THE WIND WILL CARRY US, is
available on the
> French, MK2 2-disc set (with optional English subtitles),
Actually,
> there are two documentaries of interest on the second disc,
but the
> Japanese one about the shooting of the film is especially fine.
4612

From: Tristan
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:13am
Subject: Re: where to find import DVDs

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
wrote:
> For example, I
> > heard there was a R2 release of a bunch of Rhitwik
> > Ghatak DVDs. Where could I find those? And are any
> > Kiarostami documentaries available? I would buy a
> > region free DVD player if I could find those.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Josh Mabe

The two Ghataks from BFI are A Cloud Capped Star and A River Called
Titas. They are R0 and NTSC, so you don't need a multi-region player
to play them.
4613

From: rpporton55
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:49am
Subject: Re: where to find import DVDs

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Tristan" wrote:
> --e
>
>
> The two Ghataks from BFI are A Cloud Capped Star and A River Called
> Titas. They are R0 and NTSC, so you don't need a multi-region player
> to play them.

I actually saw those two Ghatak films for sale at Tower Video in Manhattan
yesterday. They're apparently now available for direct sale in the U.S.
4614

From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:54am
Subject: from AFI at Palm Springs

from AFI at Palm Springs

CALENDAR GIRLS
entertaining, would have been better had the story stayed in England

IN AMERICA
mixture of fairy tale and grim and grime seems too discordant

FOG OF WAR
may not get awards as such brings attention to more McNamama who seems
to be offering a ‘mea culpa’ before he meets his Maker...see before, he
thought he was The Maker.

MONSTER
most remarkable, real praise for Charlise Theron and all, high risk
behavior

TRIPLETTS OF BELLEVILLE
fun, reminded me of Tati

HOUSE OF SAND AND FOG
felt awkward and clumbsy

Saw CAT IN THE HAT last week, thought it was poor without
recommendation for anyone to see; I was only off by $40,000,000
4615

From: Damien Bona
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:31am
Subject: Re: Curtis Harrington

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:

>
> Curtis also directed episodes of "Dynasty."
>

There was a remarkable sequence in a Dynasty episode of a funeral
shot p.o.v. from down inside the grave. I had dinner wuth Curtis
around that time, and when I complimented on it, he beamed and
said, "Yeah, wasn't that so Harrington?"

One could immediately tell whether an episode was Harrington's, or
whether it was directed by someone like Irving J. Moore or Jerome
Courtland.

I was as caught up in the Dynasty phenomenon of the mid-80s as
anyone, but the relatively short-lived Colbys, which was so over-the-
top and febrile as to approach the surreal, was even more
magnificent. Chuck Heston being intensely über-sincere even when
Fallon was abducted by space aliens was priceless. It was the
perfect television vehicle for Curtis Harrington.
4616

From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:11am
Subject: Re: Re: Curtis Harrington

--- ptonguette@a... wrote:
> JPC writes:
>
> > Peter I hope you don't include "Love Streams" in a
> "sub-sub-sub
> > genre" whatever that means. I don't care about the
> others but the
> > Cassavetes is a great film in any "genre".
>

>
> "Love Streams" is probably one of my twenty favorite
> movies ever made and I
> wouldn't think of consigning it to a genre.
>
> Peter
>

"Love Streams" is cassavetes masterpeice -- a grand
summation of all his themes delivered with vivid
style.
I love most the shot of John and Gena dancing to his
song "I'm Almost in Love with You."

Wish there were other recordings of it.

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4617

From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:58am
Subject: Ghatak

Both the Ghataks mentioned can be rented on VHS cassettes at Rocket
Video in LA.

"Please, sir, I'd like some more."
4618

From: Michael Brooke
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:29am
Subject: Re: where to find import DVDs

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Tristan" wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
> wrote:
> > For example, I
> > > heard there was a R2 release of a bunch of Rhitwik
> > > Ghatak DVDs. Where could I find those? And are any
> > > Kiarostami documentaries available? I would buy a
> > > region free DVD player if I could find those.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Josh Mabe
>
>
> The two Ghataks from BFI are A Cloud Capped Star and A River Called
> Titas. They are R0 and NTSC, so you don't need a multi-region player
> to play them.

Although this might seem surprising for a UK label, it was a deliberate policy decision
as the BFI thought that it was overwhelmingly likely that any British person interested
in Ghatak in the first place would probably be NTSC-compatible (as I said in another
post, NTSC-compatible PAL players are infinitely more common than the other way
round), and given the unavailability of his work elsewhere it made sense to release
them in Region 0 NTSC, the closest thing to a universal world standard.
Unfortunately, in most cases the BFI is contractually obliged to make its DVDs Region
2 PAL, but this is a happy exception.

Michael
4619

From: Michael Lieberman
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:01pm
Subject: Re: Playtime DVD

I purchased the Criterion Playtime DVD and was especially disappointed by the soundtrack (I believe the DVD is mono! The film had 6 channels of sound!) I was wondering if
the French DVD includes Tati's astonishing sound design, and if the film is subtitled at all.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 04:03:47 -0000
To: a_film_by@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: where to find import DVDs

For example, I > heard there was a R2 release of a bunch of Rhitwik > Ghatak DVDs. Where could I find those? And are any > Kiarostami documentaries available? I would buy a > region free DVD player if I could find those. > > Thanks, > Josh Mabe I can answer both queries. Two Ghatak films are available on DVD from the BFI in the UK, and the best Kiarostami documentary I've ever seen, on the making of THE WIND WILL CARRY US, is available on the French, MK2 2-disc set (with optional English subtitles), Actually, there are two documentaries of interest on the second disc, but the Japanese one about the shooting of the film is especially fine.

tr>

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4627

From: J. Mabe
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:33pm
Subject: import DVDs - Kiarostami

Thanks for the help, but I actualy meant Documentaries
by Kiarostami, not on Kiarostami. Anyone know where
to get these?

Thanks,
Josh Mabe

--- Jonathan Takagi wrote:
>
> > For example, I
> > heard there was a R2 release of a bunch of Rhitwik
> > Ghatak DVDs. Where could I find those? And are
> any
> > Kiarostami documentaries available? I would buy a
> > region free DVD player if I could find those.
>
> There's also a documentary by Jean-Pierre Limousin
> (of "Tokyo Eyes", "Novo" fame) on Kiarostami for the
> "Cinéma de notre temps" series, however I only have
> it on VHS.
>
> The French release of Kiarostami's "10" is supposed
> to have quite a bit of extra material, as did "The
> Wind
> Will Carry Us". The first reports said that there
> would
> be a feature-length piece directed by Kiarostami
> especially
> for that DVD release. The release date keeps
> getting
> pushed back and back, so I'll believe it when I see
> it.
>
> Jonathan Takagi
>
>

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4628

From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:34pm
Subject: RE: import DVDs - Kiarostami

> Thanks for the help, but I actualy meant Documentaries
> by Kiarostami, not on Kiarostami. Anyone know where
> to get these?

You mean his early educational films for Kanun? Some
very low-quality VHS tapes are making the rounds, with films
like "Bread and Alley" and "Two Solutions for One Problem",
and of course later features like "Homework".

But I don't know of any official video release.

Jonathan Takagi
4629

From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:38pm
Subject: RE: Re: Kiarostami - Theatre

Out of curiosity, did anyone on the list ever see
Kiarostami's theatrical production of "Ta'ziyé" in
Rome last summer?
4630

From: Fred Camper
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:06pm
Subject: Re: Harry Smith query

Adrian Martin wrote:

>Does anyone know if this lecture of Smith's exists in print or on tape?
>
Curious about this myself, and for the greater enlightment of all, I
queried P. Adams, who replied, "

"The lecture does not exist on tape or in any other form outside the
decaying memories of those present."

Smith has given several great interviews, though, with varying degrees of coherence, one with P. Adams, which have been published in various places.

- Fred
4631

From: Henrik Sylow
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:19pm
Subject: Re: Playtime DVD

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
wrote:
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Lieberman"
> wrote:
> > I purchased the Criterion Playtime DVD and was especially
> disappointed by the soundtrack (I believe the DVD is mono! The film
> had 6 channels of sound!) I was wondering if
> > the French DVD includes Tati's astonishing sound design, and if
the
> film is subtitled at all.
>
> It's certainly in stereo (though I don't know whether it's six
> channels or not). It isn't subtitled, but I can't imagine any other
> film where this fact is less important. (A good bit of the film is
in
> English or Franglais, anyway.)
>
> >
> > Mike

The Criterion DVD is in 1,0 channel mono. Their source is the US
print, which was recut by Tati and copied onto mono 35mm film,
reducing AR from 2,2:1 to 1,85:1 (US Widescreen Matte).

The French 2 Disc SE of Playtime has 2,0 channel Digital Dobly Stereo.
The French sites only say "cinemascope", but they say that about any
widescreen format, so AR is not known.

BFI is releasing will in 2004 release a UK R2 version of Playtime,
which should have correct aspect ration, but as far as I know, no
copies have the original 6 channel sound.

But since Im quoting this from the top of my head I could be wrong
about the BFI. Neither do I remember the entire story about the
restoration and to what degree Sophie was involved.

Henrik
4632

From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:21pm
Subject: Re: Re: Cukor and Emotion

>>>Certainly, Cukor's characters seem to be
>>more aware of their own motivations and
>>dilemmas and contradictions than the leading
>>characters in many other films, but my hunch
>>is that Cukor uses distancing moments when
>>his material is not so strong or when certain
>>actors suggest such readings.
>
> I wonder to what extent, then, this interesting idea that Dan has put
> forth and that Robert has provided so many interesting examples of
> can be discussed in terms of Cukor wanting to, as Hitchcock used to
> phrase it, avoid the cliche: How can I work with my actors to make a
> scene be dramatically effective but without falling back on exhausted
> methods of staging and performance?

I guess I like to think about it this way. Cukor has a taste for
full-bodied emotionality, maybe even larger-than-life emotionality. I
take this as pretty much a baseline, defining fact about him - not that
he never throws anything away, but throwing things away is not what he's
really about, to my mind.

Given that a) he works in an entertainment industry that requires a
semblance of naturalism, and b) he probably intuits that extreme
emotionality has a greater impact when it's covert, he has evolved ways
of smuggling, so to speak, pedal-to-the-floor emotionality into a
life-sized, psychologically plausible context. The trick I mentioned,
of cutting the emotionality with self-conscious gestures that underline
and expose the performative angle, is maybe one technique that he uses.
Obviously he doesn't use it all the time.

By the way: the self-aware gestures I mention do not have the effect of
making the scene feel distanced or cynical. They do have the effect of
directing our attention back and forth between the emotion and the
emoter, in an interesting balance of perspectives. I think this is part
of what Sarris was talking about with his "focus on the imaginer rather
than the thing imagined" comment.

The use of undiluted emotionality in some scenes, as Robert points out,
does not necessarily mean that Cukor is settling for less when he uses
more sleight of hand. Rather, I imagine Cukor always happy to go for
the gold, but doing what he has to do to maintain a certain tension
between identification and observation.

The interesting thing about the scene in A STAR IS BORN where Mason
overhears Garland from the shadows is that Mason seems to crumple in
pain. There's a conventional way of doing this scene, which involves
the actor reflecting the audience's sadness and sorrow, probably by
looking mournful or shedding a tear. Whereas Mason in this scene goes
further than the audience, into a pain that looks like a terrible
stomach cramp. In a way, the raw emotionality forces us to become
observers, because it goes further than we were willing to go on the
basis of simple identification with the storytelling.

> But if the scene suggests any possibility of cliche then
> the method is to direct somewhat against the material, as in his
> direction to Joan Crawford during her monologue on A WOMAN'S FACE in
> which he told her to recite this very emotional material in a dry,
> non-emotional manner.

Hey, this finally makes me think of a concrete example of what I was
talking about: that little excitable laugh that Crawford gives when
Conrad Veidt (I think) first sees her new face. If she had just gloried
in her new beauty or gloated, it would have seemed too melodramatic -
and it's easy to imagine Crawford doing just that in another film.
Instead, Cukor has her give away the show with that breathless giggle,
like something a little kid might do at the moment of victory. It's
still quite an emotional moment, but there's another perspective in
there too. - Dan
4633

From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:25pm
Subject: Re: Re: multi-region confusion

> Most
> region-free players don't do a very good job of converting widescreen
> PAL discs to display on an NTSC TV, with the result that the aspect
> ratio looks way off (typically 2.35:1 looks more like 1.85:1 on players
> afflicted with this problem). The Malata is one of the few players that does
> this conversion properly. The Cyberhome CH-500, which I have, is
> another, and it's a lot cheaper than the Malata:
>
> http://www.cyberhome.com/products.asp?Product=500
>
> but I'm not sure it's still available.

I have a Cyberhome CH-500 and am happy with it, but it wasn't able to
detect the 16:9 ratio on a DVD-R than I burned myself from Avid.
Whereas a Malata that I borrowed was able to detect the widescreen
format. I don't know if the problem I experienced was related to the
DVD-R or not. - Dan
4634

From: Dave Garrett
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:06pm
Subject: Re: multi-region confusion

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:

> > Most
> > region-free players don't do a very good job of converting widescreen
> > PAL discs to display on an NTSC TV, with the result that the aspect
> > ratio looks way off (typically 2.35:1 looks more like 1.85:1 on players
> > afflicted with this problem). The Malata is one of the few players that does
> > this conversion properly. The Cyberhome CH-500, which I have, is
> > another, and it's a lot cheaper than the Malata:
> >
> > http://www.cyberhome.com/products.asp?Product=500
> >
> > but I'm not sure it's still available.
>
> I have a Cyberhome CH-500 and am happy with it, but it wasn't able to
> detect the 16:9 ratio on a DVD-R than I burned myself from Avid.
> Whereas a Malata that I borrowed was able to detect the widescreen
> format. I don't know if the problem I experienced was related to the
> DVD-R or not. - Dan

It could very well be related - I forgot to mention earlier that the ability to play
DVD-Rs is one of the Cyberhome's weak points. Mine has choked on several
DVD-Rs, and played others OK; this was allegedly something that was going
to be fixed in a future firmware release, but I don't believe it ever was. If DVD-R
compatibility is a high priority, I'd probably not recommend a Cyberhome; since
I have another player that handles them just fine, it's not a big issue for me.

Dave
4635

From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:17pm
Subject: Re: Cukor and Emotion

Dan: Your work on actors is the best I've seen - better even than
Moullet. Which is ironic, given all the trouble you reportedly had
with a performer last time out. You should write a larger piece on
it: Lubitsch, Cukor... Who else?
4636

From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:16pm
Subject: Re: multi-region confusion

A few weeks ago I warned everyone that Cybnerhome has
trouble digesting R's, and Dangerous Dan assured everyone
that his didn't. What goes around comes around, Dan. There's a
simple solution, as I mentioned then - download a little extra
software and Cyberhome's fine. I noticed the problem with a
DVD from Cinefile of Le Revelateur, which kept freeze framing.
(Never having seen the film, I wasn't sure...) They lent me a disk
which fixed the problem in about 10 seconds. The DVD I rented
next from them, Chronicle of Anna Magadalena Bach, played
fine.
4637

From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:18pm
Subject: Re: Playtime DVD

There's only one way to see it: in 70mm. I did once and thought
I'd passed to another plane of existence.
4638

From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: multi-region confusion

> A few weeks ago I warned everyone that Cybnerhome has
> trouble digesting R's, and Dangerous Dan assured everyone
> that his didn't. What goes around comes around, Dan. There's a
> simple solution, as I mentioned then - download a little extra
> software and Cyberhome's fine.

I never had the freeze/crash problem, though. When I contacted
Cyberhome about my ratio problem, they said, "Yeah, we can't do that." -
Dan
4639

From: A. Oscar Boyson
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:30am
Subject: Re: Harry Smith query

There are also some nice notes, quotes, and anecdotes in his Anthology
of American Folk Music CD infolds, which were released in whole fairly
recently. This would probably be just for those who are interested in
getting a background on the guy, but there's some good stuff in there,
like when Allen Ginsberg brings Bob Dylan to stop by and Harry Smith
tells Ginsberg he doesn't want to see Dylan. The music is excellent
too, of course.

On Nov 24, 2003, at 4:06 PM, Fred Camper wrote:

>
>
> Adrian Martin wrote:
>
> >Does anyone know if this lecture of Smith's exists in print or on
> tape?
> >
> Curious about this myself, and for the greater enlightment of all, I
> queried P. Adams, who replied, "
>
> "The lecture does not exist on tape or in any other form outside the
> decaying memories of those present."
>
> Smith has given several great interviews, though, with varying degrees
> of coherence, one with P. Adams, which have been published in various
> places.
>
> - Fred
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4640

From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:50pm
Subject: cukor

I think I've come across more interesting writing on Cukor on these
posts than I have through any official bibliography. Does anyone
know of any first-rate work, French or English, done on him? I saw
Ed O'Neill's piece on A LIFE OF HER OWN in CINEACTION a few years
ago. But I can't recall much else that's been written lately. The
best piece I know of from the early CAHIERS period is Rohmer's
review of LES GIRLS. At this point, the most entertaining read in
English that I know of is the Lambert interview, although the text
of the recent reissue has been cut so it's best to look for an
earlier edition.

What Dan and Robert's posts certainly help to clarify is the
importance of discussing Cukor-as-auteur through his various methods
of directing actors rather than working strictly in terms of
traditional thematic or formalist analysis, although both of these
still have relevance as well. This centrality of the actor in Cukor
may be why early auteurism, at least in America and England, while
generally admiring Cukor, had trouble coming up with a firm
viewpoint on him. V.F. Perkins, for example, in a discussion with
his fellow MOVIE critics in the 1970s said that he remained
unconvinced that Cukor was an auteur. And Cukor might have
agreed: "I'm not an auteur, alas," he once said.

My memory may be faulty on this, but I don't recall strong attention
being paid in early English and American autuerist writing to
performance, except for occasional anecdotal pieces on a favorite
actor -- Andrew Sarris on June Allyson, or somesuch. Any extensive
work on Cukor would need to historicize and contextualize this
question of performance in his work, relating it to larger
developments in theatrical and film acting. Considering the
incredible length of Cukor's career, stretching from the 1920s with
figures like the Barrymores and Laurette Taylor to working in H'wood
with Katharine Hepburn and W.C. Fields, Bert Lahr and Garbo, Ingrid
Bergman and Thelma Ritter, Dirk Bogarde and Shelley Winters and
ending with Jacqueline Bisset, Candice Bergen and Meg Ryan, it would
add up to an amazing history of 20th century acting. Any takers?
4641

From: Michael Lieberman
Date: Mon Nov 24, 2003 10:51pm
Subject: Re: Re: where to find import DVDs

So what are some of Kiarostami's thoughts on DV? His use of DV is quite rich (Godard as well), and was curious as to why he chose this format. I like DV quite a bit myself (and
just discovered the new 24 fps DV camera, under $3 grand!) and plan on shooting with it in the future. Also, I heard Kiarostami has some new shorts from this past year, any
word on those?

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Rosenbaum"
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:34:23 -0000
To: a_film_by@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: where to find import DVDs

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Takagi" wrote: >> The French release of Kiarostami's "10" is supposed > to have quite a bit of extra material, as did "The Wind > Will Carry Us". The first reports said that there would > be a feature-length piece directed by Kiarostami especially > for that DVD release. The release date keeps getting > pushed back and back, so I'll believe it when I see it. > > Jonathan Takagi I discovered the reason for this when I attended the inauguration of a big Kiaristami event in Torino in September. The director of Cannes saw Kiarostami's feature-length documentary (about tha making of 10 and DV in general) and decided he wanted to premiere it, so this meant yanking it off MK2's DVD release schedule; apparently it won't be elegible for release until after the Cannes festival next May. I attended the first session of a film production course Kiarostami was teaching in Torinto, during which he showed roughly the first third of this documentary (i.e., about 30 minutes out of 90--I believe the film is roughly the same length as 10), all of which shows him driving around the same mountainous area where he shot Taste of Cherry, addressing the camera and explaining what he likes about DV-- and how his son's video of the shooting of Taste of Cherry, part of which wound up as the epilogue of that film, first introduced him to the general idea of shooting on video. The irony of all this is that AK admitted to me during a break in the class that he's currently planning to shot in 35mm again on his next feature! Jonathan R.

tr>

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4657

From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:00pm
Subject: cukor

Thanks to all for suggestions about other Cukor readings, as well as
the ongoing insights into his work. In going through the earlier
posts on Cukor this morning, his treatment of space comes up quite
often, justifiably so. I think it's important, though, to never lose
sight of the actor in all of this and to continually integrate
Cukor's use of space with his direction of actors. (Sorry. I have
the day off and that was my prissy little lecture for the day.)
Having said that, though, I have some loose ideas about Cukor as a
type of architectural filmmaker although I'll save it until I get it
worked up into a coherent shape (if any) before I spring it on the
world. It may turn out to be a false lead anyway.

I was also interested in the issue of Cukor as a gay filmmaker which
came through in a couple of earlier posts, especially in Bill's. I
did a conference paper at the University of Wisconsin about 500 years
ago (in the 1980s) when I was an M.A. student at NYU on this aspect
to Cukor's work. The paper had some ghastly, explicit title
like "Gender Roles and Sexuality in the Films of George Cukor." It
was well received but I never published it and I haven't had the
courage to dig it up. It's probably an embarrassment now, if it
wasn't already then. It was such an early, primitive period for gay
studies (is it even called gay studies now?), nobody was "queer"
except on grade school playgrounds, and Sedwick wasn't coming up with
ideas about homosocial desire. I just bumped through the films
intuitively, helplessly. The paper was very influenced by
Bellour's "Hitchcock the Enunciator" so of course it's full of ideas
about the male gaze and the POV shot although I talk about it in
relation to women gazing at men, etc. as well as Cukor's methods for
framing and staging his male players, complete with Bellour-like
frame enlargements. I concentrated primarily on CAMILLE, THE
MARRYING KIND and HELLER IN PINK TIGHTS since I had access to 16mm.
prints for all three of them, courtesy of Bill Everson and Roger
McNiven. I still have those slides and maybe an interesting new
paper could be written around them.
4658

From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:12pm
Subject: Re: Re: Playtime DVD

I heartily concur. Moreover without it's stereo
soundtrack "Playtime" doesn't exist at all. Tati is
almost invariably spoken of as if he wee nothing more
than an imitator of the silent tradition. But he is
pne of the most important sound filmmkaers of all
time.

--- hotlove666 wrote:
> There's only one way to see it: in 70mm. I did once
> and thought
> I'd passed to another plane of existence.
>
>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
4659

From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:20pm
Subject: RE: International DVDs

> And the VALLEY OF
> ABRAHAM DVD presents the 203-minute cut of the film, which I'm not sure
> the French edition does.

Can anyone confirm this? I've been holding off on considering
the Portuguese titles since the French box set should contain
WORD AND UTOPIA, PORTO OF MY CHILDHOOD and THE PRINCIPLE OF
UNCERTAINTY. I really hope that Gemini starts releasing more
DVDs. That Monteiro box set looks very promising!
4660

From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:24pm
Subject: RE: Le Revelateur

> "Le Revelateur"? Wow -- do they have any other early
> Garrel?

Most of these seem to be DVD-Rs from VHS sources. If this is
the case, it's only a matter of time before "La Cicatrice
intérieur" makes it there. I have both of these on VHS if
anyone's interested. I'm kicking myself for not picking up
the CdC Garrel 2-pack while in Paris.

Cinefile seems to have little regard for copyright issues.
You can even rent Cinema Parallel's highly-regulated
"Satantango" tapes from them. I'm sure this is how a lot of
the recent VHS and DVD bootlegs circulating on the internet
have surfaced.
4661

From: jpcoursodon
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:18pm
Subject: Re: cukor

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "joe_mcelhaney"
wrote:
> Thanks to all for suggestions about other Cukor readings, as well
as
> the ongoing insights into his work. In going through the earlier
> posts on Cukor this morning, his treatment of space comes up quite
> often, justifiably so. I think it's important, though, to never
lose
> sight of the actor in all of this and to continually integrate
> Cukor's use of space with his direction of actors.

It's actually what Cukor himself always does, or the other way
round -- integrating his direction of actors to his use of space. He
does it most remarkably in interiors, and perhaps most strikingly in
wide screen: the use of the Norman Maine house in such scenes
as "Somewhere There's a Someone" or the Mason-Bickford conversation
while the guests are watching a movie, or the scenes just prior to
the suicide; the use of the Paris apartment in Les Girls and the way
the three women move about in it (a great set, with those quaint
little flights of stairs); the Cheyenne theater scenes in Heller in
Pink Tights. Indeed most scenes set on stage, in which drama or
comedy or a blend of both is injected into a performance --the "I've
Got to have You..." number perturbed by Maine at the beginning of A
Star Is Born, the reprise of "Ladies in Waiting" with Elg trying to
hide...

JPC
4662

From: Elizabeth Nolan
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:33pm
Subject: Minnelli and Cukor articles film directors site

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/filmdirectors/
is a great site as all the articles are on the web.

Minnelli, Vincente
Gerstner, David. ‘Queer Modernism: The Cinematic Aesthetics
of Vincente Minnelli’. Modernity, 2, 2000.
(http://www.eiu.edu/~modernity/dgerst.html)

Grost, Michael E. ‘The Films of Vincente Minnelli’. Classic
Film and Television website. Useful notes on a selection of
films. (http://members.aol.com/MG4273/minn.htm)

Higgins, Scott. ‘Color at the center: Minnelli's
Technicolor style in Meet Me in St. Louis’. Style, Fall 1998.

(http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m2342/3_32/55082383/p1/
article.jhtml)

McElhaney, Joe. ‘Medium Shot Gestures: Vincente Minnelli
and Some Came Running’. 16:9, June 2003.
(http://www.16-9.dk/2003-06/side11_minnelli.htm)

Polan, Dana. ‘It Could Be Oedipus Rex: Denial and
Difference in Bandwagon or, the American
Musical as American Gothic’. Cine-tracts 4(2/3) Summer/Fall
1981
(http://www.modjourn.brown.edu/Cinetracts/CT14-15.pdf)

Polan, Dana. ‘Some Came Running’. Senses of Cinema, 19,
Mar-April 2002.

(http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/01/19/cteq/some_came.html)

Thompson, Rick. ‘Cabin in the Sky’. Senses of Cinema, 28,
Sept-Oct 2003.

(http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/03/28/cteq/
cabin_in_the_sky.html)

Cukor, George
Grost, Michael E. ‘The Films of George Cukor’. Classic Film
and Television website. Useful notes on several
Films. (http://members.aol.com/MG4273/cukor.htm)

Lukas, Karli. ‘A Woman’s Face’. Senses of Cinema, 8,
Jul-Aug 2000.

(http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/00/8/cteq/woman.html)

Malcolm, Derek. ‘George Cukor: The Philadelphia Story’.
Guardian, 27 April 2000.

(http://film.guardian.co.uk/Century_Of_Films/Story/
0,4135,214552,00.html)

McBride, Jospeh. ‘George Cukor: The Valor of Discretion’.
Bright Lights Film Journal, 32, April 2001
(http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/32/cukor1.html)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4663

From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:05pm
Subject: Shooting on DV

One of the main obstacles to wider acceptance of DV films is critics.
Even members of the all-turniphead press in LA were in the habit for
awhile of griping that this or that film had been shot on DV
and "looked it." (What are they supposed to look like?) When I asked
Andrew Repasky MacIlhenney if he planned to transfer Georges
Bataille's Story of the Eye (which opens theatrically in Philly 12/1)
to film he said he'd never allow it - he shot it for digital
projection and thinks it looks beautiful that way. I'd be curious to
hear other members' thoughts on the esthetic viability of the medium.
4664

From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:14pm
Subject: Re: Cukor

Thanks to ER for those great links, and let me just say a word of
encouragement to Joe about writing an updated version of his "male
gaze" piece - perhaps without using those two words. My early laments
about Cukor as a missed opportunity for queer theorists also harked
back to a convesation with a notoriously homophobic French cinephile
who matter-of-factly commented that now, of course, everyone has
realized that Cukor "wasn't an auteur." I'm really happy that this
group has so many good reasons for disagreeing.
4665

From: filipefurtado
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:42pm
Subject: Re: International DVDs

>
> Anyway I was hoping some of the boys at Contracampo could sh
ed light on
> Brazilian DVDs. It looks like there are some interesting tit
les coming
> out -- notably, a 2-
disc edition of DEUS E O DIABO NA TERRA DO SOL
> (WHITE GOD BLACK DEVIL) from "Versatil Filmes" which seems t
o have
> already gone out of print. I tried to find this in Brazil ov
er the
> summer but I could only find it for rent. I ended up picking
up Beto
> Brant's O INVASOR instead (which I thought was OK).

> Any chance some of these Sganzerla or Coutinho films will be
released?
> There used to be a great label in Brazil called Cult Filmes
-- I think
> they produced one or two discs and have stopped recently.
>

Gabe,

as far as I know the Deus e o Diabo na Terra do Sol DVD is
still available. Check at www.versatil.com.br. It's a really
good disc. Versatil will release Rocha's complete filmography
(including the rearely seen titles like Claro and Der Leone
have sept Cabeças). The nex one is Terra em Transe (Land in
Anguish) which is suppose to have a lot of deleted scenes.
Versatil has a pretty good catalogue. Other small
distributors with fine catalogues are Continental (but most
of their releases are from Criterion, but they have a real
fine selection of russian films) and Classic Line. Cult
catalogue is being released by a somewaht bigger distrubtor
named Moviestar, some of their recen releases included
Moloch, L'Humanité, The Wind Will Carry Us and Sweet Movie
but I guess this are all already available in US. Theres also
the a new one Cine Magia which looks to be good (they release
a fine copy of Polanski's The Fearless Vampire Killers which
I think hasn't come out anywhere else). There's relative
little old good brazilian films on DVD. There's some stuff by
Humburto Mauro, Arnaldo Jabor's complete filmography, some
films by José Mojica Marins. I know there suppose to be a box
set with a few Walter Hugo Khouri's films coming out now. I
didn't heard anything about Sganzerla yet, I'm quite sure the
Coutinho's last Edificio Master you get a DVD (his last two
were relkeased only on video, but Master Did well with
audiences). Also Luis Fernando Carvalho's Lavoura Arcaica
(Tothe Left of the Father) is being released soon (I disn't
care to it, but I know many people who think it's great).

---
Faça suas compras de Natal sem sair de casa!
Compre no Shopping UOL
http://www.uol.com.br/shopping
4666

From: iangjohnston
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:45pm
Subject: Re: Kiarostami

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Takagi"
wrote:
>
> > So what are some of Kiarostami's thoughts on DV? His use of DV
is
> > quite rich (Godard as well), and was curious as to why he chose
> > this format.
>
> He publicly stated that he would never return to regular
> film again. The portability/unconspicuous/cheap recording
> nature of the DV cameras furthered his notion of "the
> disappearing director".

But hasn't Jonathan Rosenbaum already reported that his next film
will be on 35mm? And I'm pretty dubious about this concept of "the
disappearing director". Surely the fixed camera set up TEN, pre-
determined by the director, is the ultimate mark of authorial
presence?
4667

From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:11pm
Subject: Re: Shooting on DV

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666" wrote:
> One of the main obstacles to wider acceptance of DV films is critics.
> Even members of the all-turniphead press in LA were in the habit for
> awhile of griping that this or that film had been shot on DV
> and "looked it." (What are they supposed to look like?) When I asked
> Andrew Repasky MacIlhenney if he planned to transfer Georges
> Bataille's Story of the Eye (which opens theatrically in Philly 12/1)
> to film he said he'd never allow it - he shot it for digital
> projection and thinks it looks beautiful that way. I'd be curious to
> hear other members' thoughts on the esthetic viability of the medium.

I was at a CINEMATOGRAPHER'S DAY with a lot of 'biggies' in Palm Springs
2 years ago and they did this great demo. They showed a split screen of the
same film; one image on digital, the other on film. They said there were
problems with true black and with embrossed and recessed patterns in
materials. That was two years ago. I think they were rather impressed.
Digital will come as soon as the economy improves and some company like
IBM, Pfizer, Microsoft, Boeing, etc put up the satellites for the digital delivery of
medidiga.
'biggies' were there to honor Conrad Hall who had died just a few days earlier
4668

From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:15pm
Subject: Re: cukor

--- > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "joe_mcelhaney"
> wrote:
> > In going through the earlier posts on Cukor this morning, his
treatment of space comes up quite often, justifiably so. I think
it's important, though, to never lose sight of the actor in all of
this and to continually integrate Cukor's use of space with his
direction of actors.

In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon" wrote:
>
>It's actually what Cukor himself always does, or the other way
> round -- integrating his direction of actors to his use of space. He
> does it most remarkably in interiors, and perhaps most strikingly
in wide screen: the use of the Norman Maine house in such scenes
> as "Somewhere There's a Someone" or the Mason-Bickford conversation
> while the guests are watching a movie, or the scenes just prior to
> the suicide; the use of the Paris apartment in Les Girls and the way
> the three women move about in it (a great set, with those quaint
> little flights of stairs); the Cheyenne theater scenes in Heller in
> Pink Tights. Indeed most scenes set on stage, in which drama or
> comedy or a blend of both is injected into a performance --
the "I've Got to have You..." number perturbed by Maine at the
beginning of A Star Is Born, the reprise of "Ladies in Waiting" with
Elg trying to hide...
>

Yes, I love the way that Cukor will rarely film the settings of his
films in a static manner but instead leads you THROUGH them with his
actors, so often linking one room with another, one space with
another through this kind of movement, as in ZAZA when Colbert is
constantly darting from her dressing room to the wings to the stage
and back again. To return to James Mason's complaint that I cited in
an earlier post about Cukor's long lead-ins and lead-outs to scenes,
I think Cukor's impulse in this regard is spatial as much as it is
dramatic, to give you a thorough sense of the environment that
surrounds his actors. So that for "The Man That Got Away" he shows
Mason's arrival outside the club, his sitting down to watch Garland
as a waiter emerges with a tray and walks over towards the bandstand,
then the number, then the dialogue between Garland and Mason in which
Mason moves her around the club to get away from the noise, leading
her through the kitchen and then out the back door into the alley.
Even in a film like HOLIDAY, with that massive home at the center of
it, by the time the film is over with you have a very strong sense of
the shape of that huge space, of how one gets from one room to
another, all the way from the kitchen to Hepburn's upstairs refuge.

In this regard, for all of his theatricality, there is also something
non-theatrical about his use of space. It's interesting that his
single return to the stage, with THE CHALK GARDEN, resulted in him
getting fired because Irene Selznick thought that he no longer
understood how to direct for the theater.
4669

From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:42pm
Subject: Re: Shooting on DV

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> One of the main obstacles to wider acceptance of DV films is
critics. Even members of the all-turniphead press in LA were in the
habit for awhile of griping that this or that film had been shot on
DV and "looked it." (What are they supposed to look like?)
I'd be curious to hear other members' thoughts on the esthetic
viability of the medium.

My feelings about DV probably aren't very original but I'll take the
plunge anyway. I love DV when a filmmaker fully understands the
specificity of it and that it is not simply an inexpensive substitute
for 35mm. film. However, the issue is complicated. I wouldn't
necessarily want to discourage gifted filmmakers committed to a
project which is only economically feasible if shot on DV. Or, in
the case of someone like Kiarostami, where the lightness of the
equipment allows his camera to go places (literally and otherwise)
that a film camera could not. For many documentary filmmakers today,
DV has become tremendously important. And coming from within
academia, I can say that DV gives my film production students a great
deal of flexibility and freedom which they don't always have in
16mm. At this early stage, it's terrific for them to have something
that they can work with in a more spontaneous manner, closer to what
a young painter might be able to do in terms of the lightness and
relative lack of expense of the tools. In all of these cases, it
seems churlish to complain about the images not being as beautiful as
one often gets from film.

Furthermore, there clearly are filmmakers who are doing spectacular
things with DV. Rohmer's work on THE LADY AND THE DUKE is, for me,
absolutely breathtaking. I couldn't take my eyes off the screen and
in a strange way I almost felt as though the cinema was being
reinvented. Likewise, although in a different way, with RUSSIAN ARK
where Sokhurov uses the new technology to realize what is, in many
ways, a long-held dream of cinema: an extended, unbroken take across
the entire duration of a film. Film cannot make this dream come true
but computer technology can. In both the Rohmer and Sokhurov,
though, the specificity of film is still fully present and not only
in terms of the final version being something that is transferred to
35mm. As I was watching these films I kept thinking (especially with
the Rohmer) about how much they would lose visually when transferred
to home video. And in fact, THE LADY AND THE DUKE doesn't look quite
as impressive on a DVD as it did when I saw it projected in 35m. at
Lincoln Center.
4670

From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:49pm
Subject: RE: Re: Kiarostami

> But hasn't Jonathan Rosenbaum already reported that his next film
> will be on 35mm? And I'm pretty dubious about this concept of "the
> disappearing director". Surely the fixed camera set up TEN, pre-
> determined by the director, is the ultimate mark of authorial
> presence?

That's why he mentioned it, because it contradicted Kiarostami's
previous proclamation.

Kiarostami's rationale seemed to be that if he could remove
himself physically from the presence of the actors, it would
allow them more flexibility, resulting in a more "truthful"
result.
4671

From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:13pm
Subject: Re: Kiarostami

Kiarostami mimes non-mastery all the time. In Close-Up, the inaudible
parts of the soundtrack of the conversation between the freed hoaxer
and Makmahlbaf (sp?) when they're in the car were put in in post-
production. As the bride's offscreen response could have been in
Olive Trees, but then there'd be no story.
4672

From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:20pm
Subject: re: Shooting on DV

Thanks to Joe for his comments. Your positive examples are all Hi-
Def, however. I believe L'anglaise was shot on Hi-Def, like Our Lady
of the Assassins and Russian Ark...or for that matter, Attack of the
Clones. I'm also curious to hear about the esthetics of small digital
cameras. Dan just made a film with one, I believe. I like it a lot,
and I pretty much liked ivan's.xtc. The few problems I had with Full
Frontal had nothing to do with the film's deliberately crummy look
(which was predictably attacked by the defunct New Times). But what
do people generally feel about this trend? Is the stuff ugly? Can it
be beautiful?
4673

From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:31pm
Subject: Re: Shooting on DV

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> Thanks to Joe for his comments. Your positive examples are all Hi-
> Def, however.

Sorry, Bill. Thought you meant digital video in the broadest sense,
including high def. Actually, RUSSIAN ARK goes beyond high def since
Sokurov didn't want that look for ARK and I think the film was shot
directly onto a hard drive.
4674

From:
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:37pm
Subject: DV; Big Monday; The Gleaners and I

In addition to the wonderful "Russian Ark", at least two more outstanding films have recently been made on video:
Big Monday (Michael T. Rehfield, 1998)
The Gleaners and I (Agnes Varda, 2000)
"Big Monday" is a (fictional) feature film shot in one long take. It was made in 1998, three years before the shooting of "Russian Ark" on December 23, 2001. It has far fewer characters, but it wanders beautifully all over New York City, down through the subway, and in and out of buildings.
Both of these films suggest that visual beauty can be made on video. "The Gleaners and I" is in rich and magnificent color; "Big Monday" is full of camera movement. Camera movement, color and composition probably have more to do with whether a movie is good looking, rather than whether it is shot on video or film.

Mike Grost
4675

From: dougdillaman
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:49pm
Subject: Re: Shooting on DV

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666" wrote:
> Thanks to Joe for his comments. Your positive examples are all Hi-
> Def, however.

Putting aside the ease of use issues (which are not inconsiderable), I actually really like some of the qualities of DV, assuming that it's used knowingly. Whenever anyone tries to make it look like film, it looks like garbage.

FESTEN (THE CELEBRATION) is one of the first (if not the first) and one of the best to use the aesthetic of DV to its advantage. I would also list BOOK OF LIFE, EVERYTHING PUT TOGETHER, FULL FRONTAL (! - yes, I think its intentionally distressed look is pretty captivating), and 28 DAYS LATER as films that grasp, visually speaking, what's really interesting about DV.

Which is not to say that DV is any sort of replacement for film, but as its own animal, it has a number of interesting qualities.

I expect that, as Hi-Def and 24fps cameras and what have you take hold, that the quest to make video more digital-like continues, and the beauty that is to be had in DV will be completely lost, except for a few partisans, kind of like those people who like to shoot on Super 8 or PixelVision today.

BTW, here's a column I wrote along these lines, which basically belabors these points at greater length: http://www.mhvf.net/aie/archive/aie-030610.shtml

(Note that in the column, I bash the look of 28 DAYS LATER, but it was before 28 DAYS LATER was released theatrically, so I hadn't seen the whole film - in the context of the full movie, I actually liked the look much better. I also made the mistake of claiming RUSSIAN ARK was shot to tape when in fact it shot to disc. Oh well.)

Doug
4676

From: dougdillaman
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:55pm
Subject: Re: DV; Big Monday; The Gleaners and I

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> "The Gleaners and I" is in rich and magnificent color; "Big Monday" is full of camera movement. Camera movement, color and composition probably have more to do with whether a movie is good looking, rather than whether it is shot on video or film.
>

Mike, did you see THE GLEANERS AND I on the big screen? I haven't seen it (though I have the DVD from the library sitting downstairs), but my general experience is that color on DV looks wonderful on video but gets blown out when it's projected, due to the increased light spectrum available on film. (I'm probably in the area where I'm going to start bungling terms here, but my understanding is that film captures two more stops of light than video and therefore can provide greater contrast when shot.)

You're certainly correct that camera movement and composition are much more independent of whether something's shot on DV or film, though I would argue that the effect of the camera movement may well be different depending on whether you're using film or DV (and then, in turn, whether you're watching the DV natively or if the 29.97 frame NTSC capture has been munged into 24 frames of film per second, not to mention whether the frames were captured interlace or in frame mode).

But I never cease to marvel at the people who seem to think that using a DV camera automatically obviates any possible use for a tripod. Which is not to say that every film requires a tripod, just that it seems that a "DV aesthetic" has arisen that has much more to do with what other films have come before it than the actual requirements of the medium.

Doug
4677

From:
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:00pm
Subject: Re: DV; Big Monday; The Gleaners and I

"The Gleaners and I" was first seen on the big screen, at the Detroit Institure of Arts. It looked better there then on TV later - although I saw the film twice on TV too, and learned to appreciate its "look" on television, too. The movie seemed much more INTENSE on TV. It was if the images were pounding you somehow. It took a while to get used to it on TV.
"Big Monday" (which is in black and white) was only seen on TV. It seems far less intense than "The Gleaners".
I've also seen DV films I did not like at all, but probably NOT because they were DV. They just seemed like bad movies. (They will not be named here to avoid the much discussed pitfalls of Negative Criticism.)
Both films are just fascinating to watch.
Can an anlogy from recorded music help? Critics of classical music recordings have spent years discussing sound recording. All of this was always lost on me. I either liked the performance of the music or not. The old opera recordings made by Caruso and Galli-Curci around 1910 are just exquisitely sung. Who cares if a five year old can get better sound quality with a cassette recorder today? The singing is beautiful, and that is all I care about when listening to them.
In the same way, watching "Big Monday" laterally track through train stations or "The Gleaners" visit a potato field in eye-popping color is all that matters to me. I'm watching art. Who can care about anything else?

Mike Grost
4678

From:
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:02pm
Subject: A Camera Movement on "Pacific Blue"

Mentioning camera movement brought to mind a favorite camera movement in a 1990's TV show.
10- 5-97 Pacific Blue: MATTERS OF THE HEART Writer: Emily Skopov Director: Terrence H. Winkless

This episode of Pacific Blue also has some elaborate camera movements. One fine long take opens with T.C. on a bicycle outdoors. He is immediately joined by a young punk on rollerblades, who skates along with him. The moving camera is right in front of the two men, and smoothly tracks along with them, as they make their way along a meandering asphalt path that twists and curves through a park. The camera is presumably on a car or bike or motorized vehicle. Other people are also in the shot: two women cut between the guys, moving in the opposite direction along the path. Later, a guy on a bicycle will move along, sometimes parallel, sometimes ahead or behind the two men. There are many people in the background of the park. Eventually the two men pull up to a complete stop, and the camera stops with them. The camera stays fixed for a while, as are the two men. Then the camera slowly begins to move. But it is clearly either hand held at this point, or proceeding at a walking pace: it is just adjusting its position relative to the two men. The young criminal gives T.C. a key piece of evidence, then leaves. T.C. holds the evidence up in awe: it is the dramatic climax of the scene, and what the whole shot has been about. At this point, the camera executes a 180 degree semi-circular motion around T.C. It is very dramatic, and underscores the climactic nature of the scene.

Such an elaborate camera movement would be famous, if it were in an older film. For example, no one forgets the circular camera movements in Ophuls' Lola Montès (1955), or Hitchcock's Vertigo (1958). Here is the same sort of movement. But it is not just a separate shot; it is linked to a whole complex long take through a park. Because these movements are in a TV show, no one seems to notice them.
4679

From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:36pm
Subject: Re: Re: cukor

> Speaking of acting, One Hour With You has always
> interested me as a project where the acting style
> encouraged by Lubitsch crossed swords with the
> Cukor style. At this late date, it's pretty fruitless to
> try to untangle their differing contributions to that
> movie, but can we more generally distinguish
> between their styles? Offhand, and this might not
> withstand careful thought, I'd say that Lubitsch's
> dialogue and mise-en-scene carry the meaning,
> while Cukor's subtext lies more in the nuances
> and psychological insights of performance. This
> doesn't address the specifics of the different styles,
> though, I realize.

I wrote a paragraph about this in an article on Lubitsch. Don't know if
it makes much sense out of context, but....

(The Chevalier-Jeanette MacDonald musical One Hour with You (1932) is a
Lubitsch project begun by George Cukor but eventually completed by
Lubitsch. Intriguingly, there are acting moments in the film in which
Chevalier partly abdicates his usual winking position outside the
narrative and drifts toward naturalism. The most memorable example is
the "That's What I Did Too" number, in which Chevalier's defensive and
anxious self-justifications are for once motivated by the plight of the
character; he displays less knowledge of himself than does the audience.
Typically, one would expect Chevalier to grin and nod at the audience
during a Lubitsch musical number no matter what his character's
emotional state might be. Hardly an open-and-shut case, but one wonders
if one detects in Chevalier’s performance the influence of Cukor--also a
man of the theater, but far more inclined toward immersion in the
story's emotions.)

--------

The entire article is at:

http://www.panix.com/~sallitt/lubitsch.html

- Dan
4680

From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:07pm
Subject: Re: re: Shooting on DV

I like them very much (even though I don't know if they're Hi-def or not):
VIES by Alain Cavalier
UNKNOWN PLEASURES by Jia Zhang-ke (cinematographer Yu Lik-wai)
LOIN by André Téchiné (cinematographer Renato Berta)
THE IDIOTS by The Idiot
and I may be forgetting a handful of titles, but that's the way it goes...

----- Original Message -----
From: "hotlove666"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 5:20 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] re: Shooting on DV

> Thanks to Joe for his comments. Your positive examples are all Hi-
> Def, however. I believe L'anglaise was shot on Hi-Def, like Our Lady
> of the Assassins and Russian Ark...or for that matter, Attack of the
> Clones. I'm also curious to hear about the esthetics of small digital
> cameras. Dan just made a film with one, I believe. I like it a lot,
> and I pretty much liked ivan's.xtc. The few problems I had with Full
> Frontal had nothing to do with the film's deliberately crummy look
> (which was predictably attacked by the defunct New Times). But what
> do people generally feel about this trend? Is the stuff ugly? Can it
> be beautiful?
4681

From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:13pm
Subject: Re: re: Shooting on DV

> Thanks to Joe for his comments. Your positive examples are all Hi-
> Def, however. I believe L'anglaise was shot on Hi-Def, like Our Lady
> of the Assassins and Russian Ark...or for that matter, Attack of the
> Clones. I'm also curious to hear about the esthetics of small digital
> cameras. Dan just made a film with one, I believe. I like it a lot,
> and I pretty much liked ivan's.xtc.

I didn't go with the cheapest DV option (a one-chip camera, a la
Vinterberg) or even the second cheapest (the three-chip "prosumer"
cameras, a la Spike Lee in BAMBOOZLED). I shot with a Sony DSR-500
(like the makers of THE ANNIVERSARY PARTY), a DVCAM camera that makes
its presence felt much as a 16mm camera would.

I like ivansxtc. also, but isn't it HD? I have the feeling that Rose
was seduced by the possibility of shooting with few lights - the film
doesn't look as pretty as it could. (But what a performance from Danny
Huston!)

> But what
> do people generally feel about this trend? Is the stuff ugly? Can it
> be beautiful?

I don't understand the idea that DV should be used only with its
"DV-ness" in mind. What exactly is that quality, or the corresponding
quality of 35mm? We certainly have associations with past uses of video
- hence the "immediacy" thing - and with the history of 35mm as a luxury
medium. But surely these are mutable. If you look at the actual
physical qualities of the media, the only really substantial thing I can
say about the difference is that video looks worse. It doesn't have the
same color saturation, and it doesn't have the tonal range. The
electron-vs.-emulsion thing strikes me as largely an academic
difference, if you subtract the already-discussed issues of quality and
history.

When I hear people talk about which media are suitable for which
projects, it seems to me they are mostly referring to the web of
associations that come from past uses. Which is fine: using the
audience's associations is fair game, and probably inevitable in some
way or another. But it's not a rule for future use.

When I started talking about my last project with my cinematographer,
Duraid Munajim, I asked him if there was anything to the rumor that you
could get away with fewer lights with DV. He said that, if I wanted the
image to look good, I'd need more lights instead of fewer: that the
limited tonal range of video means that details have a greater tendency
to vanish into the whites and blacks, and that more care and light would
be required to bring everything into the range where it would register.

Anyway, I didn't take DV-ness into account at all when I shot, for
better or worse. I told Duraid I wanted the movie to look like
Almendros shot it (which is what I always tell cinematographers. RIP,
Nestor). He did a great job, but there's no getting around the fact
that the film would look better on 35mm, and that I made a compromise.
Nothing new about that in the world of low-budget filmmaking! - Dan
4682

From: dougdillaman
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:42pm
Subject: Re: Shooting on DV

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Dan Sallitt wrote:
> I don't understand the idea that DV should be used only with its
> "DV-ness" in mind. What exactly is that quality, or the corresponding
> quality of 35mm? We certainly have associations with past uses of video
> - hence the "immediacy" thing - and with the history of 35mm as a luxury
> medium. But surely these are mutable. If you look at the actual
> physical qualities of the media, the only really substantial thing I can
> say about the difference is that video looks worse.

But couldn't you say just as easily that "the only difference between 8mm and 35mm is that 8mm looks worse"? On a certain level, that's absolutely true, but the way in which DV breaks down at its outer edges (for instance, the quicker fades to white [as you mention re: your discussion for lighting DV], the pixelated breakdowns of dark scenes) is what's interesting to me (when used artfully), just as 8mm is way grainier but because of that has its own beauty.

That said, I'm not sure if your comment was in reference to my earlier post or not, but I don't think you HAVE to use DV for its DV-ness any more (or less) than you have to use 35mm or 16mm or what have you for their essential qualities. THE ANNIVERSARY PARTY is a good example of a film that's shot on DV that fools the eye pretty well, in my opinion. That it doesn't embrace DV-ness isn't a problem to me. And I've been shooting plenty of stuff on DV that would probably look better on film, because of practical reasons.

But I always find works that explore the nature of the limits of the medium itself interesting, and that's why I find certain DV work particularly striking.

Doug
4683

From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:58pm
Subject: Re: Shooting on DV - Ruy's post (Vies)

Just for the record, the section about Welles in Vies (Cavalier) is
a pack of lies spouted by a (charming) straw woman (Oja's
word) for Mehdi Boucheri, the Iranian investor who kept Welles
from finishing the film. Vies was produced by his company. It
doesn't affect the esthetics, but it is important from an historical
pov that people who see the film know this, and that reviewers at
least note that this is Boucheri's assistant talking and Boucheri's
company signing the checks.
4684

From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:18pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shooting on DV

--- Elizabeth Anne Nolan wrote:

> Digital will come as soon as the economy improves
> and some company like
> IBM, Pfizer, Microsoft, Boeing, etc put up the
> satellites for the digital delivery of
> medidiga.
> 'biggies' were there to honor Conrad Hall who had
> died just a few days earlier
>
>

href="http://ehrensteinland.com/htmls/g009/conradlhall.html"
target="_blank">Conrad L. Hall

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
4685

From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:20pm
Subject: Re: Shooting on DV

--- hotlove666 wrote:
> One of the main obstacles to wider acceptance of DV
> films is critics.
> Even members of the all-turniphead press in LA were
> in the habit for
> awhile of griping that this or that film had been
> shot on DV
> and "looked it." (What are they supposed to look
> like?)

We all had "Chuck and Buck" fresh in our memories, and
no film or video should look like that.

"Ivan's XTC" is equally egregious.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
4686

From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:30pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shooting on DV

> But I always find works that explore the nature of the limits of the
> medium itself interesting, and that's why I find certain DV work
> particularly striking.

My sense is that it's fairly unusual for a movie actually to explore the
limits of its medium, and more common for movies to use the associations
that go with the medium.

I can think of an exception offhand, someone you also named in your
article: Almereyda, who compounds the difficulties of interpreting a
PixelVision image by shooting intrinsically murky objects like
aquariums, static-y TVs, etc. I really like the effects he gets this way.

The underlying question here: what would it be like to explore the
limits of 35mm? I guess maybe that's what Antonioni did in BLOWUP, if
you count 35mm still film. (By the way, when I was in London last month
I located and visited the famous BLOWUP park, which is in the middle of
nowhere, and which looks and sounds a lot the way it did in the movie.
Two kids were playing tennis on the famous court - otherwise, total
solitude. It was a religious experience.) If it's not plausible to
explore the limits of the top-dog medium, then we're not really talking
a symmetrical situation here, but simply assigning the lesser media to
"quirky" status. - Dan
4687

From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shooting on DV - Ruy's post (Vies)

Bill wrote:

> Just for the record, the section about Welles in Vies (Cavalier) is
> a pack of lies

Then what was it? Just an abandoned house with old papers and film
cans, and a broken toilet? (Curious.) I liked VIES, and I think I had
heard this before about the Welles segment, but can we say the last
part was an F FOR FAKE-esque concoction?

Speaking of Cavalier has anyone on the list seen RENÉ? I thought it was
pretty amazing but I don't know if I trust it entirely. First I mistook
it as a documentary, then I realized it was scripted. But I was sure
the actor playing René was real. Wrong again. His performance--in this
kind of film-- is one of the best I've ever seen.

Gabe
4688

From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:45pm
Subject: Re: Shooting on DV

Well, there you go. I enjoyed Ivans XTC; Dan did, too (mostly for
the performance); Dan thought it was Hi-Def; I thought it was DV;
David thought it was egregious. So we're in uncharted territory. I
thought the Mahler did a lot for the smeary look of the film, but
Danny Huston carried it - a reason why I would have expected
that David's "actor as auteur" side would have liked it.

And my apologies for the use of "all-turniphead press." Since the
departure of New Times (where the worst excesses of trashing
DV filmmaking occurred, under the pen of the lead "critic") the
term has outlived its usefulness, at least in LA. Some of my best
friends etc.

Re: All the Ships - Dan, your cameraman got pretty close to what
you wanted. The first thing I remember about the film is the look
of the outdoor scenes, which are probably not that numerous.
4689

From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:48pm
Subject: RE: Re: Shooting on DV

> And my apologies for the use of "all-turniphead press." Since the
> departure of New Times (where the worst excesses of trashing
> DV filmmaking occurred, under the pen of the lead "critic") the
> term has outlived its usefulness, at least in LA. Some of my best
> friends etc.

Have you read Duncan Shepherd of the San Diego Reader?
He has been adamantly opposed to films made using DV
technology, though he has softened his stance a little
in the past year. He is the only intelligent voice in
San Diego county that I'm aware of, but I find myself
often disagreeing with him.
4690

From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:49pm
Subject: Re: Vies

i have nothing against Cavalier - that's the only film of his I've
actually seen - but apart from the fact that it was (as far as I
know) the house where Welles stayed, the statements of the
unseen woman are to be taken with a grain of salt. I'm talking
about her account of the production, not the setting. And you're
told at the end of F for Fake that the Picasso story is invented. Big
difference.

Any review of One Man band will mention that the pretty Yugoslav
is Welles' girlfriend. I'd like the same truth in reviewing for Vies -
then people can judge for themselves, from the limited
information that documentaries like those give.
4691

From: Adrian Martin
Date: Wed Nov 26, 2003 0:59am
Subject: a heretical anti-DV thought

Dear friends -

Like many on this list, I like digital movies when they take good advantage
of some aspect of the medium/format. Cavalier's THE ENCOUNTER (1996) is
among my favourites - one of the first in this field, it is mainly only
extreme close-ups of objects, body parts, etc, plus breathless voice-over
narration. I also liked the Canadian comedy WAYDOWNTOWN, which deliberately
took the grainy-grungey-ill-defined option for hilarious effect. And TEN is
a treat, unthinkable shot in any other medium. (Although I guess we should
make some careful distinctions between film SHOT on DV and then actually
FINISHED/PROJECTED on digital or not - as opposed to being graded, etc, on
35mm.)

But on the other hand ... well, when DV-shot movies are just trying to be
absolutely normal-looking dramas or comedies, just done more
quickly/lightly/cheaply, the effects can be daunting. Like TADPOLE. Or THE
CHATEAU, that insufferable comedy which showed the WORST aesthetic
side-effect of the so-called digital revolution: improvisation of the worst
sort takes over, bits of business are shot on and on for hours and jump-cut
in the AVID suite afterwards, leading to sloppy, formless scenes, a total
lack of craft. And then there's my biggest DV bugbear, horribly on show in
the overrated SIGNS AND WONDERS: the SKIN TONES are absolutely awful,
unwatchable!!! Obviously, DV poses new technical (as well as aesthetic)
challenges regarding lighting and make-up ...

But I am sounding like one of those critics who reflexly disses DV, as Bill
was saying??

Adrian
4692

From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Wed Nov 26, 2003 0:04am
Subject: ivansxtc.

> Well, there you go. I enjoyed Ivans XTC; Dan did, too (mostly for
> the performance)

I liked it in general, not just for Huston. But he was superb. - Dan
4693

From: jaketwilson
Date: Wed Nov 26, 2003 0:47am
Subject: Re: Shooting on DV

--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "dougdillaman"
wrote:

> But couldn't you say just as easily that "the only difference
between 8mm and 35mm is that 8mm looks worse"? On a certain level,
that's absolutely true, but the way in which DV breaks down at its >
> outer edges (for instance, the quicker fades to white [as you
mention re: your discussion for lighting DV], the pixelated
breakdowns of dark scenes) is what's interesting to me (when used
artfully), just >
> as 8mm is way grainier but because of that has its own beauty.

I'm no technical expert on this, and maybe it's just personal
conditioning, but my instinctive response to DV is negative -- I'm
not attracted to it the way I'm attracted to film (including 8mm).
Clearly, many filmmakers working in the medium try to make a virtue
of necessity, exaggerating its roughness in order to indicate this is
a deliberate aesthetic choice (one reason so many DV films are still
shot handheld). But attempts to get lyrical effects out of video's
limitations -- blurred images suggesting the difficulty of grasping
an intangible reality, etc -- rarely work for me: Michael
Winterbottom's IN THIS WORLD was a particularly dreary recent
example.

Some of Sokorov's contemplative videos do come off, but generally I
think the best examples of medium-specific use of DV are kinetic
rather than painterly -- they make us focus on the act of recording
events over time, rather than lingering on beautiful surface
textures. TEN is like this, and I think the Dardenne brothers work in
the same way: would they lose much if they shot on DV? On the other
hand, maybe the biggest problem with the rise of DV is that low-
budget filmmakers have been encouraged to believe that visual style
and "good storytelling" are unrelated -- a visually dead film like
MINOR MISHAPS shows the limits of the point-and-shoot approach.

Ultimately the effects produced by these different media can't be
separated from their connotations, even though these connotations
change over time. Fredric Wiseman's insistence on shooting on film
radically changes the meaning of a movie like DOMESTIC VIOLENCE --
what might seem mundane on video becomes a literally extravagant
artistic gesture.

JTW
4694

From: Michael Lieberman
Date: Wed Nov 26, 2003 0:48am
Subject: Re: Shooting on DV

DV is far from close to being up to par with film projection. The main issue with DV makers (including many friends of mine and I) is that there still isn't one specific way to show a
DV work in ideal circumstances, albeit installation, projected from the DV source, or DVD, which isn't perfected for individual use.

But shooting DV is a completely different matter. It allows more to be done for less money, without the ability to have the rich projection that even Super 8mm film allows. And DV
is also quite convenient, and with the current airplane securities, one could travel around the world without damaging DV tapes.

Transferring DV to film has had some lovely results; look no further than "In Praise of Love" to see what I mean. But who is going to pay for it? If one makes a narrative without
actors or high profile individuals backing it in any way, it's doubtful that the transfer would ever take place. For experimental filmmakers or documentary filmmakers, the chances
decline.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "hotlove666"
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:05:57 -0000
To: a_film_by@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [a_film_by] Shooting on DV

One of the main obstacles to wider acceptance of DV films is critics. Even members of the all-turniphead press in LA were in the habit for awhile of griping that this or that film had been shot on DV and "looked it." (What are they supposed to look like?) When I asked Andrew Repasky MacIlhenney if he planned to transfer Georges Bataille's Story of the Eye (which opens theatrically in Philly 12/1) to film he said he'd never allow it - he shot it for digital projection and thinks it looks beautiful that way. I'd be curious to hear other members' thoughts on the esthetic viability of the medium.

tr>

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