Date: Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:21pm
Subject: Re: Blake
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
>>
> I'm not sure why Switch might be considered a reactionary film
> (admittedly it does get queasy about abortion). But a major theme
>in Edwards's work is the necessity of being true to your real self
>in order to find happiness and fulfillment. It's for this reason
>that in an Edwards world Julie Andrews can't continue to pose as a
>gay man in Victor/Victoria and why Dudley Moore can't end up with Bo
>Derek, and Switch always works itself out according to this precept.
>
> I think that the most defining scene in any Edwards film is when
> Audrey Hepburn and George Peppard remove their Halloween masks in
> Breakfast At Tiffany's – it's here where truly fall in love (the
> looks they give each other!). This is the crystallization of the
> Edwards ethos.
A different way of looking at this matter may be found in Richard
Combs's essay on Edwards in THE FILM COMEDY READER. What Combs sees
in Edwards is not a filmmker who has any fundamental concern
with "being true to your real self," of stripping off the mask, than
a filmmaker who is fascinated with instablity, messiness and flux,
with identities which do not so much discover their essence as engage
in a continual process of interchange and permutation. For Combs,
what Edwards does best is "create fantasies" which are also "about
people creating fantasies."
5502
From:
Date: Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:22pm
Subject: TV Listings
For those who have cable, I thought I'd post a quick list of some notable
auteur films airing on Turner Classic Movies in January. I've seen some of the
more famous ones (the Langs, the Edwards, and one of the Cukors), but most of
these will be new to me. If anyone has anything to say on any of them, please
feel free to do so.
Set your VCRs!
Peter
WHILE THE CITY SLEEPS (Fritz Lang)
1/1 4:00 A.M.
KANSAS CITY CONFIDENTIAL (Phil Karlson)
1/1 10:00 A.M.
THE RELUCTANT DEBUTANTE (Vincente Minnelli)
1/2 12:00 P.M.
MINISTRY OF FEAR (Fritz Lang)
1/3 8:00 A.M.
CAUSE FOR ALARM (Tay Garnett)
1/6 12:30 P.M.
CHEYENNE (Raoul Walsh)
1/7 11:30 A.M.
KID GALAHAD (Phil Karlson)
1/8 2:30 P.M.
BLACKBEARD THE PIRATE (Raoul Walsh)
1/14 1:00 P.M.
MACAO (Josef von Sternberg)
1/14 4:30 P.M.
KEEPER OF THE FLAME (George Cukor)
1/15 8:15 A.M.
THE NAKED AND THE DEAD (Raoul Walsh)
1/17 12:15 P.M.
NORTHWEST PASSAGE (King Vidor)
1/17 4:00 P.M.
OPERATION PETTICOAT (Blake Edwards)
1/18 12:15 P.M.
MIDNIGHT (Mitchell Leisen)
1/19 8:00 P.M.
SYLVIA SCARLETT (George Cukor)
1/21 1:45 A.M.
UNDERCURRENT (Vincente Minnelli)
1/21 3:30 A.M.
A LIFE OF HER OWN (George Cukor)
1/23 9:00 A.M.
BRIGADOON (Vincente Minnelli)
1/25 10:00 A.M.
MANPOWER (Raoul Walsh)
1/28 4:00 P.M.
5503
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:12pm
Subject: Re: Blake
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "joe_mcelhaney"
What Combs sees
> in Edwards is not a filmmker who has any fundamental concern
> with "being true to your real self," of stripping off the mask,
than
> a filmmaker who is fascinated with instablity, messiness and flux,
> with identities which do not so much discover their essence as
engage
> in a continual process of interchange and permutation. For Combs,
> what Edwards does best is "create fantasies" which are also "about
> people creating fantasies."
I completely agree with Combs (based on this quote -- I haven't
read his book. And this explains why transvestism is such a recurring
motif in his work. "Switch" (which by the way is the only Edwards
film I don't like) is the word/title that best describes his entire
oeuvre.
JPC
5504
From: jaketwilson
Date: Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:54pm
Subject: Re: Minor Musicals
Joe, have you seen the recent HONEY, directed by Billie Woodruff? It
seems to fit most of your "minor musical" criteria.
JTW
5505
From: Michael Brooke
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:16am
Subject: Re: HK/Asian titles tampered with by Miramax
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Worrall"
> Miramax also has the US rights to Tsui Hark's Zu Warriors,which they
> tried to recut for higher test scores and then decided to shelve it.
>
> Shoalin Soccer, Hero, Zu Warriors and Iron Monkey are available on
> VCD which are region free and a lot of DVD players play. I live in
> San Francisco and have picked up some of these titles in Chinatown,
> along with many Shaw Brothers titles that are also available on VCD.
> Overall the image quality is decent, with Shoalin Soccer and the Shaw
> Brothers titles being rather sharp for VCD. The one VCD distributor
> to avoid is Deltamac, the images on the VCDs I have seen (Iron
> Monkey, Chinese Ghost Story I-III) are full of artifacts and the
> images are literally breaking apart at times.
Note that most of these titles are also available on DVD in Europe courtesy of the
usually superb Hong Kong Legends label - I have their editions of 'Zu' and 'Iron
Monkey' and it's hard to imagine either of those films being presented much more
effectively: state-of-the-art anamorphic transfers plus a veritable tonnage of
intelligent and relevant extras. They're usually dual-encoded for Region 2 and 4,
though sometimes they're region-free (though invariably PAL).
Michael
5506
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:24am
Subject: Fooling around
A quiz to all the old movie song fans in this Group: What song from
what musical has the word "anticonstitutional" in it?
Sorry but auteurists are like girls, they just want to have fun.
I know there are at least three of you out there who know.
JPC
5507
From: Eric Henderson
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:53am
Subject: Re: TV Listings (couple more)
I haven't seen these ones yet. I know the Borzage is supposed to be
wicked great, but are the other two worth a look?
1.19 8am -- KING OF KINGS (Nicholas Ray, 1961)
1.23 6:45pm -- OUTRAGE (Ida Lupino, 1950)
1.25 2pm -- THE MORTAL STORM (Frank Borzage, 1940)
5508
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:01am
Subject: Re: TV Listings (couple more)
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Henderson"
> I haven't seen these ones yet. I know the Borzage is supposed to be
> wicked great, but are the other two worth a look?
>
> 1.19 8am -- KING OF KINGS (Nicholas Ray, 1961)
> 1.23 6:45pm -- OUTRAGE (Ida Lupino, 1950)
> 1.25 2pm -- THE MORTAL STORM (Frank Borzage, 1940)
More than "a look"! Not to be missed. Especially the Lupino.
JPC
5509
From:
Date: Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: TV Listings (couple more)
Eric Henderson wrote:
>1.19 8am -- KING OF KINGS (Nicholas Ray, 1961)
I've never been a particular fan of this film, though I should probably give
it another chance.
>1.23 6:45pm -- OUTRAGE (Ida Lupino, 1950)
And I've never seen this film at all, but if Jean-Pierre says it's a
must-see...
>1.25 2pm -- THE MORTAL STORM (Frank Borzage, 1940)
And this is indeed a masterpiece! Not to be missed.
I know that it would be preferable to see most or all of these films on
actual celluloid, but since that isn't an option for many of us, I feel really
lucky that a channel like Turner Classic Movies exists. It's practically the only
television I watch these days.
Peter
5510
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:38am
Subject: Flowers of St. Francis
Just revisited this film today: I had never enjoyed it before, but this
time I found myself appreciating it. Rossellini makes it look so easy
to frame background and foreground activity together - he can do so much
with a simple pan. And the episodic structure works very well, I think.
I'm thinking, though, that it's hard to bridge the gap between my
attitude toward the Franciscans, which is sympathetic curiosity at best,
and the film's, which seems to be pure celebration. Not that the film's
attitude is simple-minded: the pig's foot scene, to take one example,
makes it quite easy to see the young monk Juniper as a dangerous lunatic
if one is so inclined. But the film's structure suggests that
Rossellini was motivated by pure admiration for the Franciscan spirit,
and I'm finding it hard to situate myself with regard to the film, given
my lesser admiration. Whereas I have no trouble appreciating, say,
ORDET, despite my not having religion. Nor VOYAGE TO ITALY despite not
believing in miracles. Somehow these films seem less harnessed to their
subjects. Any thoughts on this?
I'm fascinated by a certain effect that Rossellini gets by using music
and narration to bring a scene to a seemingly arbitrary conclusion. He
does it in FRANCIS at the end of the Clara scene: I didn't sense that
the scene was over, nor that it was depicting any special rapture, but
Rossellini cuts to long shot, brings in some slightly dissonant music by
Renzo, and inserts a bit of poetic narration that talks about the great
joy of Francis and Clara. I find this moment weirdly moving, maybe
moreso because the scene didn't feel concluded - the way the scene
rushes to a premature finish makes me try to hang onto it, somehow. It
makes me remember how most or all of the episodes in PAISA end with that
sudden narrative acceleration, leaving us at the beginning of a new
section with the feelings from the old one still resolving in our minds.
- Dan
5511
From: Damien Bona
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 7:22am
Subject: Re: Blake
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "joe_mcelhaney" >
> A different way of looking at this matter may be found in Richard
> Combs's essay on Edwards in THE FILM COMEDY READER. What Combs
sees
> in Edwards is not a filmmker who has any fundamental concern
> with "being true to your real self," of stripping off the mask,
than
> a filmmaker who is fascinated with instablity, messiness and flux,
> with identities which do not so much discover their essence as
engage
> in a continual process of interchange and permutation. For Combs,
> what Edwards does best is "create fantasies" which are also "about
> people creating fantasies."
I don't think there's anything contradictory in what I wrote about
Edwards and what Richard Combs has to say. "People creating
fantasies" is the journey Edwards's characters undertake in his
movies. But it also sounds as if Combs leave the theatre before the
final reel, because he doesn't seem to realize that ultimately it is
the untangling of these fantasies and the way the play-acting gives
way to a self-realization that the director's films are leading up to.
5512
From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 8:49am
Subject: Re: Blake
I wrote a long analysis of Skin Deep called Ars poetica for cdc where
I argued that Change - the working title of that film - was the true
subject of the oeuvre: constant change, no fixed identity, no fixed
residence even - at the end of SD he has no home. (I may have gotten
the germ of the idea from Daney.) Always bearing in mind that SD was
written as the followup to 10, which it negates, I'd say it's basic
to BE. Only article that ever got me laid.
5513
From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:47pm
Subject: Re: Minor Musicals
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jaketwilson"
> Joe, have you seen the recent HONEY, directed by Billie Woodruff?
It
> seems to fit most of your "minor musical" criteria.
>
I haven't seen it yet, Jake. Thanks for reminding me. From the
descriptions I've read of it the film sounds rather like some of
those low budget '80s pop musicals like BREAKIN' or BEAT STREET or
(my personal fave) ROLLER BOOGIE.
5514
From: joe_mcelhaney
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:00pm
Subject: Re: Blake
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Damien Bona"
wrote:
>
> I don't think there's anything contradictory in what I wrote about
> Edwards and what Richard Combs has to say. "People creating
> fantasies" is the journey Edwards's characters undertake in his
> movies. But it also sounds as if Combs leave the theatre before
>the final reel, because he doesn't seem to realize that ultimately
>it is the untangling of these fantasies and the way the play-acting
>gives way to a self-realization that the director's films are
>leading up to.
Can you think of some examples of pure self-realization in Edwards,
Damien? You probably have much better memory of his films than I do
(although I am slowly working my way through these films again).
Maybe the end of THAT'S LIFE? There is certainly a kind of impulse
towards understanding one's true self, etc. in his work. And that may
explain Edwards's fondness for the explanatory nature of
psychoanalysis and his penchant for didacticism in the later films.
But so often in Edwards self-realization and explicit statements are
framed in theatrical terms, as though he remains somewhat skeptical
of the myth of knowing one's true self. This tendency to resolve the
film's issues within the realm of the theatrical is happening as
early as THIS HAPPY FEELING and then on through films like (just off
the top of my head) DARLING LILI and VICTOR/VICTORIA.
5515
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 4:55pm
Subject: Re: Blake
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> I wrote a long analysis of Skin Deep called Ars poetica for cdc
where
> I argued that Change - the working title of that film - was the
true
> subject of the oeuvre: constant change, no fixed identity, no fixed
> residence even - at the end of SD he has no home. (I may have
gotten
> the germ of the idea from Daney.) Always bearing in mind that SD
was
> written as the followup to 10, which it negates, I'd say it's basic
> to BE. Only article that ever got me laid.
Tell us more about getting laid, Bill! From an auteurist point
of view, of course.
I can think of few films that work as such a strong deterrent
to sexual activity. In Skin Deep Eros is Thanatos.
JPC
5516
From: Damien Bona
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 8:26pm
Subject: Re: Blake
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "joe_mcelhaney"
>
> Can you think of some examples of pure self-realization in Edwards,
> Damien?
Going hand-in-hand with self-realization in Edwards is a falling in
love, through which self-actualization occurs. A pure example of
this is Breakfast At Tiffany's, in which Holly goes through any
number of identities before realizing that a shared life with George
Peppard's Paul Varjak is her life's destination. In fact, Peppard's
speech in the taxi towards the end of the film can be seen as a
summation of Edwards's worldview. (I've heard that even though
George Axelrod received the credit, the final script is almost
entirely Edwards's).
5517
From: Damien Bona
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 8:27pm
Subject: Re: Blake
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> I wrote a long analysis of Skin Deep called Ars poetica for cdc
where
> I argued that Change - the working title of that film - was the
true
> subject of the oeuvre: constant change, no fixed identity, no fixed
> residence even - at the end of SD he has no home. (I may have
gotten
> the germ of the idea from Daney.) Always bearing in mind that SD
was
> written as the followup to 10, which it negates, I'd say it's basic
> to BE. Only article that ever got me laid.
I hope you were safe and used a glow-in-the-dark condom.
5518
From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:56pm
Subject: Re: Re: from this weekend's NYTimes Magazine --
not a bad comparison at all. the price of being ahead, perhaps.
not by chance, the Cahiers have made a year or so ago a special issue on
videogames, Special Jeux Video.
a very good one, though I don't care much for videogames myself. One friend
of mine working academically with narrative and videogames said the issue
was brilliant.
ruy
----- Original Message -----
From: "jpcoursodon"
To:
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 9:31 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: from this weekend's NYTimes Magazine --
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Craig Keller
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Cahiers du Cinema, the French journal
> > responsible for the first serious analyses of Westerns and murder
> > mysteries and other forms of what was previously considered a kind
> of
> > junk entertainment.
> >
> >
>
> The price of fame...
5519
From: hotlove666
Date: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:58pm
Subject: Re: Blake
Re: Breakfast at Tiffany's - Edwards does not claim that script, but
he does emphatically claim the ending (and the party, all
improvised). The inability of the characters in Edwards' films to
find their true selves is complemented by their determination to do
so, which can be touching precisely because it's doomed.
The protagonist of Skin Deep was originally supposed to be same
character who finds his authentic self in marital fidelity at the end
of 10, still played by Dudley Moore. At the beginning of Skin Deep,
which ended up taking a long time to get made, he is almost gunned
down by the wife he since cheated on multiple times (autobiography)
and has become an alcoholic.
By the same token, Eros and Thanatos are conjoined in Edwards' films,
and in life - hence my good fortune consequent upon the appearance of
that article, with a lady who like to play games with razor blades...
I'd love to see the script for the remake of 10, set in England,
which Edwards is trying to set up at Paramount.
Dan, in pursuit of our discussion of the two Men Who Loved Women, I
just read an eulogy for Bunuel by Thierry Jousse which a) speaks of
Bunuel's great admiration for The Soft Skin and b) compares L'homme
qui aimait les femmes to Bunuel. It actually kind of makes sense if
you think about it.
5520
From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 0:00am
Subject: Re: From the New York Times Magazine
Riuy - The latest word from France is that Burdeau and Frodon have
finally set up a new editorial board.
5521
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 0:34am
Subject: Re: Re: from this weekend's NYTimes Magazine --
Ruy Gardnier
not a bad comparison at all. the price of being ahead, perhaps.
not by chance, the Cahiers have made a year or so ago a special issue on
videogames, Special Jeux Video.
a very good one, though I don't care much for videogames myself. One friend
of mine working academically with narrative and videogames said the issue
was brilliant.
ruy
According to the teenage son of a friend, the narrative portion of computer/play station/video games is called "cinema" by die-hard gamers. Some games can take up to 14 hours to finish and the connecting "cinema" narratives can last as long as two hours.
Richard
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5522
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 0:41am
Subject: Re: From the New York Times Magazine
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> Riuy - The latest word from France is that Burdeau and Frodon have
> finally set up a new editorial board.
Was the previous editorial staff considered responsible for
the plummetting circulation?
5523
From: Fred Camper
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:00am
Subject: Re: Re: Blake
Well, I'm just getting caught up on the recently revived Edwards thread.
Most of the 80s films I've seen only once, and I've missed one or two. I
can't agree with Peter that they're all strong, but I'm also a great
lover of "The Man Who Loved Women."
Films like "That's Life" seem intriguing, appealing, and personal, but
visually they never really got going for me.
It's always seemed "obvious" to me that "Wild Rovers," even in its
butchered form, is the greatest Edwards. Not that far behind would be
"The Party," "The Man Who Loved Women," and "What Did You Do in the War,
Daddy?" "Darling Lili," "The Tamarind Seed" and "The Great Race" and
"Days of Wine and Roses" are all great.
Some of the arguments offered here for the late films that I don't value
that much are interesting, and make me want to resee them.
The "instability, messiness and flux" quote isn't bad, but for me a kind
of weightless intoxication captures better the feeling I get from the
best Edwards films. It seems he aspires to a state of free-floating,
zero-gravity ecstasy. This explains the ending of "The Party," but also
the whole of "Wild Rovers." At its best, for me, his imagery conveys a
sense of unbalanced floating delirium.
Dan in post 5374 on "The Man Who Loved Women":
"Not since the heyday of Andy Warhol has an American film let its scenes
drag on so long with so little to sustain them."
Well, maybe that's one reason why I love the film, because I love
Warhol's "slow" films. To take one of the slowest, "Henry Geldzahler,"
the intensity of Warhol's dead-eye gaze makes each of Geldzahler's tiny
twitches memorable. Viewing the film is a little like watching an insect
dying.
"To sustain them" suggests to me a demand for intelligent drama or
something. That's not something I care much about one way or the other.
I've seen "The Man Who Loved Women" only once, when it opened, but I
still remember the incredible intensity and imbalance created in
compositions with the artist's face filling half of the frame. His
obsession, his erotic desires, become in the film a quest for
disconnecting from the mundane world, for being in passion's thrall,
which seems once again connected with a kind of weightless floating. And
the mix of lush sensuality and extreme imbalance in the film's space
expresses that perfectly, and movingly. As many noticed at the time,
Burt Reynolds as a sensitive artist doesn't work so well, and that is a
flaw in the film, but not one I care about all that much, though he was
irritating at times.
- Fred
5524
From: Craig Keller
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:11am
Subject: Re: Re: from this weekend's NYTimes Magazine --
>
> According to the teenage son of a friend, the narrative portion of
> computer/play station/video games is called "cinema" by die-hard
> gamers. Some games can take up to 14 hours to finish and the
> connecting "cinema" narratives can last as long as two hours.
I have to run soon for some formal yuletide dining, but I'd like to
quickly comment on this (and plan on being a little more in-depth on
the subject some time tomorrow if I get a chance) -- I've been doing
art design and layout for video game "strategy guides" for the last
couple years (and am soon shifting out of this line even if not
entirely out of design), and have played games in periods of varying
intensity for the last fifteen years. As such, I find the arguments on
both sides "for" and "against" games (it's always along that divide
that the cards seem to fall) to be a little bit off. To be sure, games
do have narratives, and have always had some narrative premise at least
since the release of Shigeru Miyamoto's 'Super Mario Bros.' in 1985 (or
before that, his 'Donkey Kong'), but the idea that the development of
technology to the point of realized "virtual worlds" somehow brings the
medium into a new "artful" realm is ludicrous, if only because the
developers themselves tend to bring a scientist's touch to the
touchstones of "emotion" and "aesthetic" requisite to any work of art.
I've really got to run, so will elaborate more on this soon, but a few
quick points I wanted to put out here before I take off --
-The likening (in the Times Magazine article) by Bruno Bonnell of
cinema's "golden age" to where gaming is currently at or about to be is
outlandish, and doesn't match, really, at all. (I'll elaborate
further.)
-There is a strong division between the aesthetics of
Western-programmed games (North America / Europe) and those of Japan.
Most superficially, Japanese developers wield a universal proficiency
for a polished end product (smooth game control, smoothly modeled
characters with no visibility of "seams" between the thousands of
polygons and textures that compose them), whereas all (and that blanket
statement really works) American games have a clunky look to their
character models, with sharp, angled seams between polygons and
herky-jerky movement which only Lev Manovich or Tim Murray could
theorize into justification.
-The "cut-scenes" (as they're also called) which play out the
narrative, and often employ the trappings of the cinematographic
mechanism (simulacra of lens flares, rack-focus, shot-reverse-shot,
pans, etc.), are referred to as "cinemas" rather than "cinema" --
still, the connection in nomenclature exists.
-By today's standards, a 14 hour game is relatively short (and even too
long for me at this point); the average for a more narrativized
action-oriented game (an "adventure game") is 20-30 hours, with
role-playing games stretching anywhere from 40 hours to 80 hours (like
the PS2 and old-school Super Famicom 'Final Fantasy' series), to 120
hours (for some PC games), to an infinite amount of time (for some
online games like 'Final Fantasy XI Online' and 'EverQuest.').
more later -- gotta split --
craig.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
5525
From: iangjohnston
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 2:10am
Subject: French books on Bunuel
Can anyone comment on the value - or otherwise - of these books in
French on Bunuel? Any highly recommended? Or completely negligible?
Manuel Rodriguez Blanco "Luis Bunuel"
Fernando Cesarman "L'oeil de Bunuel"
Charles Tesson "Luis Bunuel"
Marie-Claude Taranger "Luis Bunuel: le jeu et la loi"
Many thanks!
5526
From: Tag Gallagher
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 3:05am
Subject: Re: Flowers of St. Francis
I was hoping all the many Rossellini fans among us would hop in, but I
guess Dan and I are left alone.
I really like Dan's third paragraph. As for the movie, it was one of
Rossellini's two or three favorites (another was Viva l'Italia, totally
unknown in the US, but a major masterpiece) and I confess that it has
never affected me as deeply as I wished it would.
I'm not sure what Dan means by "the Franciscan spirit." Rossellini
seems to focus on humanism: there's not much specifically religious in
this movie (compared with Voyage in Italy or Stromboli). And I don't
know how much it has to do with any actual Franciscanism, then or now.
I can tell you that Rossellini, speaking of it, said three things. One
that Franciscanism so the birth of a new type of love, unerotic. Two
that Rossellini was "always in favor of the fools," the crazy people,
because without them there's stagnation. Third, at Yale Rossellini
said he wanted to show that "from a very humble position you can face
everything and you can revise the whole conception of the universe."
For me, this is the main theme of all of his movies.
One note on edition. THE FLOWERS OF ST. FRANCIS is the title of the
American release, which includes a short prologue (not by Rossellini)
about some frescoes but which omits the "perfect happiness" episode in
which Francis and a companion are thrown out into the snow and find
happiness in being so treated. The British edition, THE ADVENTURES OF
ST. FRANCIS OF ASSISI, includes this episode but omits the prologue.
BOTH editions are available on vhs in the US, the latter under the
original Italian title FRANCESCO GIULLARE DI DIO (Francis, God's Jester).
Dan Sallitt wrote:
> Just revisited this film today: I had never enjoyed it before, but this
> time I found myself appreciating it. Rossellini makes it look so easy
> to frame background and foreground activity together - he can do so much
> with a simple pan. And the episodic structure works very well, I think.
>
> I'm thinking, though, that it's hard to bridge the gap between my
> attitude toward the Franciscans, which is sympathetic curiosity at best,
> and the film's, which seems to be pure celebration. Not that the film's
> attitude is simple-minded: the pig's foot scene, to take one example,
> makes it quite easy to see the young monk Juniper as a dangerous lunatic
> if one is so inclined. But the film's structure suggests that
> Rossellini was motivated by pure admiration for the Franciscan spirit,
> and I'm finding it hard to situate myself with regard to the film, given
> my lesser admiration. Whereas I have no trouble appreciating, say,
> ORDET, despite my not having religion. Nor VOYAGE TO ITALY despite not
> believing in miracles. Somehow these films seem less harnessed to their
> subjects. Any thoughts on this?
>
> I'm fascinated by a certain effect that Rossellini gets by using music
> and narration to bring a scene to a seemingly arbitrary conclusion. He
> does it in FRANCIS at the end of the Clara scene: I didn't sense that
> the scene was over, nor that it was depicting any special rapture, but
> Rossellini cuts to long shot, brings in some slightly dissonant music by
> Renzo, and inserts a bit of poetic narration that talks about the great
> joy of Francis and Clara. I find this moment weirdly moving, maybe
> moreso because the scene didn't feel concluded - the way the scene
> rushes to a premature finish makes me try to hang onto it, somehow. It
> makes me remember how most or all of the episodes in PAISA end with that
> sudden narrative acceleration, leaving us at the beginning of a new
> section with the feelings from the old one still resolving in our minds.
> - Dan
5527
From: Dan Sallitt
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 3:53am
Subject: Re: Re: Blake
> Dan in post 5374 on "The Man Who Loved Women":
>
> "Not since the heyday of Andy Warhol has an American film let its scenes
> drag on so long with so little to sustain them."
>
> Well, maybe that's one reason why I love the film, because I love
> Warhol's "slow" films.
I like them too, or at least some of them.
> "To sustain them" suggests to me a demand for intelligent drama or
> something. That's not something I care much about one way or the other.
In Edwards' case, I felt that he was certainly interested in drama. My
problem was that he seemed to be extending the scenes because he was so
moved by them and wanted the impact to last longer, whereas I didn't
feel that he'd earned that much emphasis. - Dan
5528
From: jaketwilson
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 4:10am
Subject: Re: Blake
hotlove666 wrote:
> By the same token, Eros and Thanatos are conjoined in Edwards'
films,
> and in life - hence my good fortune consequent upon the appearance
of
> that article, with a lady who like to play games with razor
blades...
The recent posts on Edwards are just fascinating. I definitely agree
with the above, and see it exemplified in those "weightless" scenes
Fred talks about, which are more or less explicitly orgasmic: loss of
boundaries, destruction, death. So the yearning for the "pure" self
of childhood, channelled through sexual desire, becomes
indistinguishable from infantile regression and perversity: one
emblem could be Peter Sellers clutching his crotch and wanting to
urinate while Claudine Longet sings in THE PARTY, till the dam bursts
and floods the whole film.
The idea of nostalgic yearning and vulgarity being somehow the same
thing strikes me as central to Edwards (even in Henry Mancini's
songs, which always make me think of Noel Coward's line about the
potency of cheap music). Holly is a sort of parody innocent, and
alcoholism is a key device because, again, it allows adults to
regress, opening doors to both self-discovery and self-destruction --
is Lee Remick in WINE AND ROSES "true to herself" when drunk, or
sober?
I think THE GREAT RACE is central because it indicates that Edwards
looks upon slapstick comedy (specifically the Keystone-style chases
which are his direct model) as the original, defining form of cinema.
So he's staging a return to the childhood of the medium itself, but
this recreated primal scene proves to be marked by confusion and
ambivalence as much as clarity and integrity. This is illustrated in
the pie fight, which besmirches The Great Leslie's "pure" self-image
and thus inducts him into adulthood -- at least in the first of the
film's three endings.
The particularly charged relationship to silent cinema in Edwards is
one reason I'm intrigued by SUNSET and Malcolm McDowell's blasphemous
version of Chaplin, which incidentally harks back to CLOCKWORK
ORANGE's blasphemous version of "Singin' in the Rain", continuing the
Edwards-Kubrick connection established through Sellers. I think those
two compare quite interestingly, as near-contemporaries equally
fascinated by the logic of self-destruction (THE KILLING, like DR
STRANGELOVE, could almost be looked upon as one long gag).
JTW
PS: I don't think of 10 as a reactionary film, or a pro-monogamy
tract as such, though I can see there are several ways to read the
ending. Unlike with Holly, I didn't get the feeling the film passes
any judgement on the Bo Derek character. She's not what Dudley Moore
decides he wants, but that's his problem, not hers, right?
5529
From: Tag Gallagher
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:26am
Subject: Re: TV Listings
To Peter's TCM January recommendations, may I add:
1/6
7:15 AM Employees' Entrance (1933) An unscrupulous department store
manager stops at nothing to get what he wants. Warren William, Loretta
Young, Alice White. D: Roy Del Ruth. BW 75m. CC
9:45 AM Midnight Mary (1933) An abused orphan sinks into a life of
crime. Loretta Young, Ricardo Cortez, Franchot Tone. D: William A.
Wellman. BW 74m.
Almost any Wellman movie made before 1935 is well worth watching!
5530
From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:11am
Subject: Re: From The New York Times Magazine
"Plummeting circulation?" Wishful thinking, M. C. Circulation of CdC
has unfortunately stayed pretty steady while production costs soared,
resulting in a deficit when the (relatively) big spending didn't
produce a circulation increase. The increased red ink is the cause of
everything, but I don't think the changeover reflects blame for that.
For example, the new co-editor in chief, Emmanuel Burdeau, created a
lavish web site which certainly contributed to the deficit, because
it wasn't even designed to bring in money!
Without talking to Emmanuel or Frodon, I assume that the aim now is
to reduce costs and dispense with the fantasy of grabbing young
readers by writing about videogames and reality shows - some but not
all of the people I'm told are leaving were identified with that
politique. (Note: not all.) Ultimately Frodon and Burdeau will do a
magazine in their image - less gaudily youth-oriented, more
traditional, more unabashedly intellectual, more of a "revue" and
less of a "magasine." The schizophrenia about that - and the ambition
to turn a "revue" into a "magasine" - dates back to Toubiana and
the "new format" of 1989. In fact, the accountant for many years,
Didier Costagliola, who was the first victim of the changeover, had
always decried the illogic of that to anyone who'd listen.
The attempt to boost circulation which resulted in red ink was
ultimately not the fault of any of the large or small editors, IMO -
it was a publishing strategy that started with Toubiana and was no
doubt part of his discussions with the new owners before he vanished
in his turn, to resurface as the new head of the Cinematheque, where
I think he'll do a good job. Ultimately the only thing wrong with the
strategy was that it didn't work - ie circulation didn't go up (or
down) significantly between 1989 and 2003.
The young writers - many of whom became good friends of mine, by the
way - had tastes that made them the right people to implement the
videogame-tv-porn policy, and the wrong people to implement the new
aims that Frodon and Burdeau will be implementing now, because they
really believed in what they were doing, idealistically. I'm sure
they'll all find good jobs. Jean-Marc is already editing the film
pages of Les Inrockuptibles, and I wouldn't be surprised to see
Erwan, who is a superb writer, surfacing someplace like Liberation.
Am I happy or sad at the changeover? Both. I recently defended an
extremely pornographic new film in a Philadelphia paper and would
have liked to carry the fight to the pages of CdC. On the other hand,
I'd rather be in hell with my back broken than have to watch a single
episode of Friends, as I've said before, and I would be the first to
salute if we went back to a simpler layout with black and white
stills. I've always hated what color does to the magazine.
Anyway, let it be noted that the shakeup is not about "plummeting
circulation," unless I misread Antoine de Baecque's article, which
only spoke of a 700,000 Euro deficit, as I recall. Vive les Cahiers,
in any case.
5531
From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:21am
Subject: Re: French Books on Bunuel
I'm just starting to plow thru the Bunuel literature for something
I'm doing. I've only read Charles' Bunuel book in French. It's good
but wildly eccentric. I strongly suggest at least glancing at the
writings of Pierre Legendre, who should be cited throughout, before
tackling the book. Charles' little monograph on El is also good, with
the same caveat. On the other hand, the writing of Oudart, Pierre et
al. on Simon, Tristana, La voie lactee and Objet du desir in the
Cahiers between 1970 and 1977 is pure gold. You should also be aware
of the pioneering books by Kyrou and Bauche, and the chapter on
Bunuel in Le cinema de la cruaute.
I'm finding good work in English scattered here and there, and I
regret that I can't read the considerable amount of critical and
historical work available in Spanish, only a small part of which has
been translated.
5532
From:
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:26am
Subject: Re: Blake
Bill K, then Jake T. W.:
>
> > By the same token, Eros and Thanatos are conjoined in Edwards'
> films,
> > and in life - hence my good fortune consequent upon the
appearance
> of
> > that article, with a lady who like to play games with razor
> blades...
>
>I think [Kubrick & Edwards] compare quite interestingly, as near
> contemporaries equally
> fascinated by the logic of self-destruction (THE KILLING, like DR
> STRANGELOVE, could almost be looked upon as one long gag).
>
I'm not a fan of late period Edwards (post-VICTOR/VICTORIA, let's
say) at all, but I'd agree with Jake's Kubrick comparison, especially
regarding Bill's discussion of Eros and Thanatos in BE's films. EYES
WIDE SHUT, which might as well have been titled LOVE AND DEATH, makes
that comparison fairly explicit. In fact, I believe that in the late
70s, Kubrick toyed with making his adaptation of Schnitzler's book a
comedy (starring Steve Martin, no less!) One can't help but think
that, at least on some level, that might have been more Edwards's
terrain. In fact, take away the period detail and Schnitzler might
have made for a fairly rewarding source for an Edwards film, given
his interest in psychiatry, sex, love, and death.
-Bilge
5533
From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 7:17am
Subject: Re: Re: French Books on Bunuel
Typo: not Bauche but Buache. Freddy Buache. The name: Luis Bunuel. Editions
l'age d'homme, 1970. It's a very good book but it emphasizes on the
surrealist side whereas I think Bunuel is majorly naturalist (in the sense
of literary naturalism, which was strong in brazilian [azevedo] and french
[zola] literatures).
You should also check the interview book Es proibido asomarse al interior,
translated in french as "Il est dangereux de se pencher au dedans".
Wonderful.
You should also check chapter eight of Deleuze's L'Image Mouvement, which
deals with Bunuel, Stroheim and their relationship to naturalism.
The Tesson book is excelent, though I ressent some overquoting and some
slightly needing to generalize the book Deleuze made on Nietzsche to make it
fit into Bunuel's work.
ruy
----- Original Message -----
From: "hotlove666"
To:
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 4:21 AM
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: French Books on Bunuel
> I'm just starting to plow thru the Bunuel literature for something
> I'm doing. I've only read Charles' Bunuel book in French. It's good
> but wildly eccentric. I strongly suggest at least glancing at the
> writings of Pierre Legendre, who should be cited throughout, before
> tackling the book. Charles' little monograph on El is also good, with
> the same caveat. On the other hand, the writing of Oudart, Pierre et
> al. on Simon, Tristana, La voie lactee and Objet du desir in the
> Cahiers between 1970 and 1977 is pure gold. You should also be aware
> of the pioneering books by Kyrou and Bauche, and the chapter on
> Bunuel in Le cinema de la cruaute.
>
> I'm finding good work in English scattered here and there, and I
> regret that I can't read the considerable amount of critical and
> historical work available in Spanish, only a small part of which has
> been translated.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/a_film_by/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
5534
From: Fred Camper
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:20am
Subject: Re: Re: Blake
Dan Sallitt wrote:
>>Dan i
>>
>In Edwards' case, I felt that he was certainly interested in drama. My
>problem was that he seemed to be extending the scenes because he was so
>moved by them and wanted the impact to last longer, whereas I didn't
>feel that he'd earned that much emphasis.
>
I think you're right in the narrow sense that if directed by Joe
Anonymous, "The Man Who Loved Woman" would be a big bore whose plot
utterly failed to engage. But the reason I think the prolonged scenes
are great is that the expressive imbalance in the compositions
powerfully conveys the film's subject, erotic infatuation. Having them
longer adds to that feel, by expressing a desire to extend ordinary
time. Or at least, that's my memory of it....
- Fred
5535
From: Fred Camper
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:27am
Subject: Re: Flowers of St. Francis
Tag Gallagher wrote:
>I was hoping all the many Rossellini fans among us would hop in...
>
Well, my problem is once again that it's been a long time since I've
seen the film. But I agree with Roberto. I actually love it even more
than the five Bergmans. The images have a directness, a purity, an
innocence, a lack of calculation, a kind of primal sensuality, that's
most evidencd in those shots (or is it only one shot?) of birds in the
sermmon to the animals sequence, and that seems to me to express quite
beautifully and profoundly the ideas expressed by Rossellini's St. Francis.
Another key to the film is the ending. Those spinning monks, setting off
in all directions create a kind of geographic conceit that expresses to
me a key Rossellini impulse: a desire to embrace the whole world with
love, a desire also expressed (if i remember this right) by the mad
Ingrid character of "Europe 51."
I also really love "Viva L'Italia," seen only once without subtitles 30
years ago in Washington (on a trip made from New York just to see it and
"Europe 51.")
- Fred
5536
From: Henrik Sylow
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 3:27pm
Subject: Merry Christmas
The season is upon us. Snow has covered the landscape and peace is
upon land and mind.
I wish you all a very merry christmas and thank you for a good year.
Henrik
5537
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 3:44pm
Subject: Cahiers Redux
Not "wishful thinking", Mr K. just an uneducated guess. I have no
interest -- monetary, ideological or otherwise --in the financial
woes of a "revue" I subscribed to and read religiously for decades
(even through the nutty Maoist period)but whose policies in the past
dozen years or so I found becoming increasingly questionable. Your
insider's comments on the situation are very instructive. They also
confirm my old feeling that there was something megalomaniac and
suicidal in trying to turn a super-intellectual journal into a mass
circulation magazine (I'll take your word for the "idealistic"
motivations of the parties involved).
JPC
5538
From: hotlove666
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:01pm
Subject: Re: Cahiers Redux
I agree about the magasine/revue mess. I believe, with Pascal Kane,
that Daney's departure leaving Toubiana in charge of the Cahiers was
a "terrible miscasting" (Daney should have stayed, Toubiana should
have taken over Libe) from which the mag has never recovered -
although I keep discovering after each aborted new era closes that
the back issues make good reading. Let's watch, with hope in our
hearts, what happens next.
Merry Christmas to Henrik and all my other afb buddies.
5539
From: Jonathan Takagi
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:22pm
Subject: RE: Re: From The New York Times Magazine
> Jean-Marc is already editing the film
> pages of Les Inrockuptibles
What happened to Serge Kaganski? I've regretted that
Les Inrocks have taken everything cinema related off their
web site. It's too expensive to subscribe from the US
and they often had some interesting things to offer.
5540
From:
Date: Mon Dec 22, 2003 7:21pm
Subject: Blake
The subject of masks in Edwards' films recalls one of the best moments in
"The Great Race": at the auto company board meeting, when Prof. Fate tears off
his beard and reveals himself. Then his assistant positions the trampoline, so
Fate can safely (???) make his exit from the window. Why is this scene so
insanely funny? Do not know... It seems to invoke a whole vanished pulp tradition,
in which sinister villains were always making daring escapes from places in
whjich they had intruded. The scene brings one in contact with a whole pop
cultural tradition, one that seems precious, even priceless. In the same way, the
pie fight lets us share in a lost but wonderful cultural institution. This
seemed so important to me as a kid, when I was trying to learn everything about
the world.
The way that trampoline has a big X on it, marking where Fate is supposed to
land, also breaks me up. As do Peter Falk's difficulties in adjusting the
right spot... It seems to speak of the gulf between theory and practise.
Over the years, I've loved Edwards' comedies the most. Especially:
The Pink Panther films:
A Shot in the Dark, Return of the Pink Panther, Son of the Pink Panther
The early comedy classics:
Bring Your Smile Along, High Time, The Great Race, What Did You Do in the
War, Daddy?
The later comedy classics:
Victor Victoria, Blind Date, Switch.
The semi-autobiographical films:
S.O.B., That's Life!
My favorite Edwards drama is Breakfast at Tiffany's. With all the enthusiasm
in a_film_by for The Tamarind Seed and an apparently better cut of The Wild
Rovers, would love to see these again - have not seen either since their first
release.
Mike Grost
5541
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 3:44am
Subject: Re: Cahiers redux
I don't know what happened to Kaganski (sp?) - I never followed what
he was doing with the paper. But Lalanne will be a good addition.
5542
From: Maxime
Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:53pm
Subject: Tourneur by Chris Fujiwara
I'm just reading the Tourneur book by Chris Fujiwara. There is
something quite appreciable in the way he approaches Tourneur's
work: a systematic effort to enter in the heart of the mise-en-
scene. For every movie he reviews, Fujiwara tries to support his
view with some shot-by-shot analysis. When necessary, he will then
describe the pan or the close-up that make sense. It may be
that "heart" is not the more appropriate word… one shall note reduce
a film critic to the shooting script. But I believe that too many
critics tend to reduce a movie to some lines of dialogue or to an
acting performance… and to forget the "cooking", as says Brisseau
("la cuisine").
5543
From: Maxime
Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:55pm
Subject: Paulo Branco
Just heard that Paulo Branco was supposed to work with Jean-Claude
Brisseau for his next movie. Who except Branco will? Don't know if
that name rings a bell for everybody here, but you should know we
need it. In addition to his indefectible support to de Oliveira for
decades, Branco, in a continuous refusal to comfort and facility,
contributes to the vitality of European cinema. Without him, how de
Oliveira, Monteiro, Rozier, Ruiz, Schroder would have made Vai e
Vem, Palavra e Utopia, Maine-Océan, l'Éveillé du pont de l'Alma or
Tricheurs?
BTW, who have seen this indescribable object by Monteiro, "Branca de
Neve" (Snow White)?
5544
From: Maxime
Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:57pm
Subject: Re: TV Listings (Wellman & Lupino)
Great opportunity to discover Wellman. Not to be missed:
Battleground, The Story of G.I. Joe, Other Men's Women, Westward The
Women, Wild Boys of the Road, Heroes For Sale…
But don't forget his late work… Love Lafayette Escadrille. Shall I
admit I believe The High and the Mighty is pretty good…
I can't understand why the films by Lupino are so difficult to
catch. Except for the Hitch-Hiker (not her best), I had to see them
on tape… (BTW, for any one interested, Never Fear is available at
http://www.hollywoodsattic.com, under the title Young Lovers).
Haven't seen her last yet, "The Trouble with Angels". Is that good?
Anyway, don't miss Outrage.
5545
From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:15pm
Subject: Re: Paulo Branco
> BTW, who have seen this indescribable object by Monteiro, "Branca de
> Neve" (Snow White)?
Since this just came out on DVD (though I haven't seen any of the
Monteiro discs yet) I am considering putting it on my top ten list. For
a long time I wondered if anyone outside the thousand or so who managed
to sit through it at fugitive screenings in Venice, Sao Paulo, and
Paris (where it was shown only once, I believe) would actually get a
chance after it was buried because of subsidy scandals. How did they
dig themselves out of this one?
I think it's a great film and Monteiro's return with VAI E VEM only
adds context to it. The screening that I saw didn't only provoke
walkouts: there were people screaming at the film!!! (When I went back
to the festival's catalogue entry, I saw that they made no mention of
the black screen.)
Gabe
5546
From: hotlove666
Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:03pm
Subject: Re: Paolo Branco
I saw Snow White at Venice, where Paolo critiqued the projection
afterward. For those who don't know, Monteiro filmed an adaptation of
Robert Walser's Snow White, a play which Serge Daney loved, with
actors in costume and the whole thing, then decided not to include
the image-track with the finished film because it was a distraction.
It's a highly pleasurable viewing experience, like Duras' L'Homme
Atlantique, also a black screen, because of the very high quality of
the text, and the residual hypnotic mind-set of "watching" a film in
a darkened theatre. BTW, there's maybe five minutes of black screen
at the end of Georges Bataille's Story of the Eye, which I'm touting
these days, but with no text - just an irritating electronic sound
created by the sound designers, City of Horns.
Monteiro is (was) an eccentric Portugese genius whose only film in
tape distribution here, The Comedy of God, is not to be missed under
any circumstances.
I agree that Paolo is one of the greats.
5547
From: Maxime
Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:53pm
Subject: Re: Paulo Branco (Snow White)
I'm not sure to guess what experience could be a viewing of Snow
White on a TV screen... This deadfull black screen so reduced... I
shall say I wasn't that convinced on the big screen. I admit that
the experience is far from a purely conceptual provocation.
Introduced by the photos of the dead body of Robert Walser lying on
the snow, we know we are somewhere between death, creation and (dis)
illusion... but so dark is the screen. And I don't even speak
Portuguese! Those ugly (white) subtitles...
5548
From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 0:19am
Subject: Re: Re: Paulo Branco (Snow White)
I imagine it degrades the image like anything seen on TV, even if it
is black screen! But it's a small miracle that we're able to see it at
all now that it's available. (For those who don't know, Monteiro's
cheapskate tactics backfired when he was asked to return the subsidies
he didn't use to film the story of Snow White, provoking a minor
scandal in Portugal.) I heard Monteiro went as far as costuming and set
construction but never actually *filmed* any of the story. The last
shot of the film -- *SPOILER* -- is Monteiro himself in front a
beautiful old tree which was added on at the last minute.
As a speaker of "Brazilian", even I had a hard time with the Portuguese
in the film but fortunately the print I saw was unsubtitled and
completely black.
Gabe
5549
From: Maxime
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 0:22am
Subject: Re: Paulo Branco (Snow White)
Gabe (or anybody), could you tell me what is written on the paper
(handwritten by Monteiro) that introduce the movie (first image
before the Walser photos)?
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Gabe Klinger
> I imagine it degrades the image like anything seen on TV, even if
it
> is black screen! But it's a small miracle that we're able to see
it at
> all now that it's available. (For those who don't know, Monteiro's
> cheapskate tactics backfired when he was asked to return the
subsidies
> he didn't use to film the story of Snow White, provoking a minor
> scandal in Portugal.) I heard Monteiro went as far as costuming
and set
> construction but never actually *filmed* any of the story. The
last
> shot of the film -- *SPOILER* -- is Monteiro himself in front a
> beautiful old tree which was added on at the last minute.
>
> As a speaker of "Brazilian", even I had a hard time with the
Portuguese
> in the film but fortunately the print I saw was unsubtitled and
> completely black.
>
> Gabe
5550
From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 0:40am
Subject: Re: Re: Paulo Branco (Snow White)
Maxime:
> Gabe (or anybody), could you tell me what is written on the paper
> (handwritten by Monteiro) that introduce the movie (first image
> before the Walser photos)?
This may or may not be what you're looking for (I have no memory of the
text at the beginning):
"The sob is the tune of the Walserian smalltalk. It reveals to us where
its preference lie. Only in madness, of course. They are characters who
have lived through it and that is why they now seem so superficial,
inhuman, unperturbed. If we were to describe in one word what is both
so terrible and funny about them we could say that they are cured.
Naturally we still never know how such a cure was achieved, unless
perhaps if we ponder a little on Snow White".
5551
From: Maxime
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 0:59am
Subject: Re: Paulo Branco (Snow White)
Thanks Gabe. I'm not sure it is what I was looking for. I was
wondering if this text was not added to the film after the first
releases, as an introduction after the "scandal".
BTW, all his work, including short features, will be released in
(11) DVD next January in France.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Gabe Klinger
> Maxime:
>
> > Gabe (or anybody), could you tell me what is written on the paper
> > (handwritten by Monteiro) that introduce the movie (first image
> > before the Walser photos)?
>
> This may or may not be what you're looking for (I have no memory
of the
> text at the beginning):
>
> "The sob is the tune of the Walserian smalltalk. It reveals to us
where
> its preference lie. Only in madness, of course. They are
characters who
> have lived through it and that is why they now seem so
superficial,
> inhuman, unperturbed. If we were to describe in one word what is
both
> so terrible and funny about them we could say that they are cured.
> Naturally we still never know how such a cure was achieved, unless
> perhaps if we ponder a little on Snow White".
5552
From: jtakagi@e...
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:08am
Subject: RE: Re: Paulo Branco (Snow White)
Or if you can't wait, you can buy it right now from Portuguese
websites (like www.fnac.pt)
I can't wait for the upcoming Oliveira box set that Gemini
is supposed to put out as well.
Original Message:
-----------------
BTW, all his work, including short features, will be released in
(11) DVD next January in France.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
5553
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:31am
Subject: Monteiro
The black screen is a great gimmick. Next step would be a black
screen with NO soundtrack at all (and thus no annoying subtitles).
And the next next (final?) step no film (and no screen) at all. They
would just turn on an empty projector. (well, "Flicker" was something
like that).
I know, cheap joke.
I saw the two "Deus" films. I love "Comedy" but the sequel (AS BODAS
DE DEUS) was rather disappointing although endlessly challenging.
There is a short (Passeio com Johnny Guitar) that uses the Ray's
soundtrack as M. walks about. I understand it was supposed to go into
Comedy of God but didn't because "Comedy" couldn't be made in
CinemaScope.
Never saw Memories of the Yellow House. That 11 disc box should be
exciting.
JPC
5554
From: Maxime
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:38am
Subject: Re: Monteiro
> The black screen is a great gimmick.
Heard the story that Monteiro would have actually shot the entire
movie in garden of Lisbon with his coat in front of the camera!
Delightfully absurd.
5555
From:
Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:10pm
Subject: A Touch of Nutmeg (OT)
One cannot send food through the internet. Although Broomhilda in the comics
once ordered a pizza by fax, and the hot pizza came right out of the bottom of
her fax machine. Pretty nifty.
But here is a touch of nutmeg for everybody's holiday:
http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/carr/myristic.htm
This is part of the stupendous University of Hawaii botany site, by Gerald
Carr. Carr is expert at magnified pictures of small flowers, so that every
botanical detail is visible. He has given the world a whole new look at rare
flowers. The sight is awesomely beautiful. This is his page for the nutmeg family
(Myristicaceae). At its base, there is a link to the "Plant Family Access Page",
which contains links to dozens of other families and rich pictures. It is a
landmark in the history of photography.
Happy Holidays!
Mike Grost
5556
From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:13am
Subject: Re: Re: Monteiro
> Heard the story that Monteiro would have actually shot the entire
> movie in garden of Lisbon with his coat in front of the camera!
I also heard that he joined all the actors on the set one day and--
seconds before rolling-- yelled out: "KILL THE LIGHTS!!"
I don't know if it's getting harder or easier to separate fact from
myth now that Monteiro is no longer with us (and I won't find out
anything for sure until someone gives me the money to go to Portugal to
research my book), but the DVD offers interviews and texts from friends
snd collaborators and critics. Most amazing is how fast they put this
thing together.
FYI (to those interested), apparently Monteiro and DP Mario Barrosso
worked on the shade of black that they wanted before copying prints.
This, certainly, won't come across on the DVD.
Gabe
5557
From:
Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:20pm
Subject: Films without Pictures (was Snow White)
Films without Pictures used to be called "radio".
Cecil B. DeMille used to produce the Lux Radio Theater, which offered radio
adaptations of famous movies, often with the original cast. These still get
rebroadcast on public radio stations. His versions of Stagecoach (with John
Wayne) and The Maltese Falcon are still gripping.
In 1997, there was a TV production of the old Lux Theater script of "It's a
Wonderful Life". This showed the actors seated in front of microphones, saying
their lines. This version was called "Merry Christmas, Mr. Bailey" and was
directed by Matthew Diamond. It starts of gradually, but eventually becomes
terribly involving. Bill Pullman played the lead, and did a very good job.
I still believe films should be made with pictures. But this show suggests
that non-realistic stagings might also sometimes have a place. If it gets rerun
over the holidays, it is recommended.
Mike Grost
5558
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:30am
Subject: Re: Tourneur by Chris Fujiwara
Maxime
I'm just reading the Tourneur book by Chris Fujiwara. There is
something quite appreciable in the way he approaches Tourneur's
work: a systematic effort to enter in the heart of the mise-en-
scene. For every movie he reviews, Fujiwara tries to support his
view with some shot-by-shot analysis. When necessary, he will then
describe the pan or the close-up that make sense. It may be
that "heart" is not the more appropriate word… one shall note reduce
a film critic to the shooting script. But I believe that too many
critics tend to reduce a movie to some lines of dialogue or to an
acting performance… and to forget the "cooking", as says Brisseau
("la cuisine").
It's an excellent book. Another exemplary examination of Tourneur's mise-en-scene for I WALKED WITH A ZOMBIE can be found in "CineAction" 3/4 by Robin Wood which is illustrated with several frame enlargements of key sequences. Wood employed Roland Barth's methodology in the manner of Barth's "S/Z" which was illuminating if not the last word on this film. Chris Fujiwara didn't cite this article in his bibliography so I wonder if he got to read it or just left it out by mistake.
Richard
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5559
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:56am
Subject: Re: Monteiro
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime"
> > The black screen is a great gimmick.
>
> Heard the story that Monteiro would have actually shot the entire
> movie in garden of Lisbon with his coat in front of the camera!
> Delightfully absurd.
I've heard the story that Cukor wanted to shoot the entire Gone
With the Wind with his underwear in front of the camera and that's
why D.O.S. fired him. (he probably didn't like the color of the
underwear).
5560
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:21am
Subject: profiles / silhouettes
I was in Virginia this week (for a family medical emergency) and noticed some
colonial and civil war period silhouettes.
After a 5 day drought of movies (watched North by Northwest with Lehman's
commentary on the flight to VA and Criterion Rashomon on the fight home to
CA with interesting commentary), I was glad for a familiar DINNER at EIGHT
and its famous Barrymore silhouette scene.
Silhouettes seem more common in the thirties / forties (Garbo and her co-stars
especially). Certainly silhouettes were common crafts then as cameras were
still rare for the general population and homemade silhouettes were hand me
down skills.
Intersting how few closeups were used then. Today silhouettes seem less
common and closeups fill the screen.
Were / are there any directors who seem to favor silhouettes versus closeups,
then or now?
5561
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:33am
Subject: Re: Silhouettes
ER, If you ever spend time at the Pacific Film Archives in Berkeley,
ask to see Pickett's Charge, a civil war film made like a home movie
by a Disney animator with locals who reenact the Charge every year in
period costume, filmed exclusively in silhouette with dialogue looped
over the brilliantly edited images. Against all odds, it feels realer
than Cold Mountain.
5562
From:
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:48am
Subject: Re: Silhouettes
Tarantino's KILL BILL V.1 features a pretty remarkable moment played
out in silhouette during the go-for-broke fight sequence at the end.
(Of course, it appears to be a nod to Godard. Although I think
Tarantino also mentioned Suzuki as an influence there.) I believe
there's supposed to be a similar silhouette scene in Vol. 2.
One of the most striking uses of silhouette I've ever seen is in
Alexandre Volkoff's 1923 serial LA MAISON DU MYSTERE, which has an
extended wedding sequence filmed entirely in silhouette. It's not
just the silhouettes, however -- the way the whole thing is framed
and acted, the movements of the actors, all suggest a bizarre, almost
ritualistic shadow puppet show. A really bizarre, beguiling sequence.
-Bilge
5563
From: Tristan
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:09am
Subject: Village Voice Poll
http://www.carldreyer.com/masters/reviews/dvd2003.htm
Some great votes for Best Performance in Village Voice's poll this
year. David's votes for Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck were certainly a
highlight. I also liked the vote for the steadicam in Elephant. Also,
The Friedmans got a vote, and "The Bald Lady" from Ten got a vote.
It's good to see people out there voting for "performances" that are
a little un-orthodox(made up characters, documentary subjects).
5564
From: Craig Keller
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:37am
Subject: Pistol Opera / Kill Bill / Halber Mensch
>(Of course, it appears to be a nod to Godard. Although I think
>Tarantino also mentioned Suzuki as an influence there.)
This sequence is a direct pull from Suzuki's 'Pistol Opera' (2001) -- which incidentally was mentioned on another list today, on account of Jonathan Rosenbaum's placing the film as his #2 pick of the year -- thank god somebody somewhere has something to say about this movie -- JR's long review some months back is practically the only eloquent writing, let alone writing at all, that I've read about the film in English anywhere. It's an outright masterpiece, and I only wish that for anyone who hasn't yet seen 'Pistol Opera,' his or her first encounter with the picture could be on the big screen, although there's little to no chance of that happening with the era of the repertory midnight-movie sadly past. Nonetheless, both DVDs that I have of it (the R1 American disc and R2 Japanese disc, both NTSC of course) have pretty good image quality, with the Japanese edition maybe possessing a slight edge. (This edition also contains substantial, albeit unsubtitled, featurettes.)
In 'Kill Bill,' of course, the battle silhouettes against the purple are bereft of all the beauty, splendor, and tension they describe in the context in which they appear in Suzuki's film, in the climax at the horror-house of post-war history. Just more empty hommage from Tarantino, although according to the positive reviews I've read in Cahiers/Film Comment/Ebert, this is a "space-time" of empty hommage. Whatever this portends. (Weird apologia for cinephiliac solipsism, apparently.) And in any case, the sequence appears right after Tarantino leaps at the height of the hack-fest into five minutes of black-and-white film (presumably hoping all the jumping around from style to style throughout will help mask the fact that this similar "style-shift" was a compromise to ward off the MPAA from the NC-17 rating that the climactic symphony of gore-geysers would provoke), underscoring the "no-actual-aesthetic-reason-for-it-at-all"ness of the 'Pistol Opera'-sequence and really, I guess, the movie as a whole.
Not necessarily related, although sort of related (some of the 'Pistol Opera' images reminded me of this) -- has anyone on the list seen 'Halber Mensch,' from around 1986, starring Einstuerzende Neubauten? I'm thinking here of the bodypaint and the firecrackers.
Which has nothing at all to do with 'Pierrot le fou' either, but still I ask: How did you perceive that particular 'Kill Bill'/'Pistol Opera' sequence as a nod to Godard?
craig.
5565
From: filipefurtado
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 8:41am
Subject: Re: Late Edwards
> --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "filipefurtado"
>
> > I like late Edwards as much as Like the early one. 10,
> > Victor/Victoria and Skin Deep are great films. Most of the
> > others like S.O.B., Blind Date (Peter you're right about T
he
> > Party comparision) or Sunset are very good, he did made a
few
> > less interesting works at the period (The Man Who Loved
> > Women, Thats Life!, Son of Pink Panther), >
> > Filipe
> >
> > That's Life" is "less interesting"? Why? JPC
Sorry by the very late answer. I don't think That's Life (or
The Man Who loved Women,BTW) isn`t exacttly a bad film, but
it does suffer more than the others by all the talk on middle
age problems and a remember a constant feeling (which I
didn`t see in any of the others film from the period) that
Edwards were inflating everything towards making The Big
Movie on Aging.
Filipe
> > ---
> > Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.
> > AntiPop-up UOL - É grátis!
> > http://antipopup.uol.com.br
>
>
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>
>
>
---
Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.
AntiPop-up UOL - É grátis!
http://antipopup.uol.com.br
5566
From: filipefurtado
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 9:31am
Subject: Re: Re: Monteiro
> I saw the two "Deus" films. I love "Comedy" but the sequel
(AS BODAS
> DE DEUS) was rather disappointing although endlessly
challenging.
>
I like As Bodas de Deus almost as much as A Comedia de Deus.
The first hour is one of the best things Monteiro ever did
(then the film does lost something).
> Never saw Memories of the Yellow House. That 11 disc box
should be
> exciting.
Yellow House (whose title would probably be better translated
to rememberances of the Yellow House) is with A Flor do Mar
(86), my two favorite Monteiro's films, but I like all of
them (seen nine).
My father is portuguese and almost everytime I visit my
grandparents, they have a brother or cousin visiting them, I
already saw myself in the very bizarre situation of be
talking to someone who speaks the same first language as
myself, but still needing a translator. Portuguease accent
are really hard to understand, particularly those who are
from Madeira Island. So I usually do have some difficulties
to undestrand the dialogue in Monteiro's films. Also, know
portuguese is very useful to see those films, specially the
ones with Monteiro himself on the lead, because the dialogues
does suffers a lot in translation, Joao de Deus is always in
a constant performance and the way he carefully construct his
lines is nearly as important as their meanings and the
subtitles (at least the english ones) makes them no justice.
Also, I really don`t know how Snow wHite will look on DVD,
there's something about be in the dark at a threater with
that black screen that's part of the film experience. Even
the hostility by part of the audience sounds important to me
(hey Gabe, this time during the Monteiro restrospective, the
SP film festival did include a warning about the film in
their catalogue).
Filipe
---
Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.
AntiPop-up UOL - É grátis!
http://antipopup.uol.com.br
5567
From:
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 4:35am
Subject: Silhouettes
The silent animated puppet film "The Adventures of Prince Achmed" (Lotte
Reininger, 1927) is all silhouettes.
I have a dim memory that Maurice Tourneur includes silhouettes in his silent
films, as a stylistic device.
Asian puppets are often made to cast silhouettes on screens. Such puppet
shows are included at the beginning of Peter Weir's classic "The Year of Living
Dangerously" (1982) and in Zhang Yimou's "To Live" (1994).
Mike Grost
PS Our moderator Fred Camper has a silhouette portrait on his web site!
5568
From: hotlove666
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:03pm
Subject: Re: Silhouettes
Silhouettes are often used to slip erotic material past the censors.
In the Rocky Horror Picture Show Dr. Stein's seductions of Brad and
Janet are shown in silhouette. A shadow-play seen through a sheet or
screen takes on increasingly nasty implications for the onscreen
onlooker in Goldmember. And of course silhouettes form the basis for
all Bond-movie title sequences.
Then there are those tiny silhouettes representing members of the
audience in Avery cartoons. I recently viewed a bootleg of Back in
Action where this happened for real! The bootleg was shot off the
screen, and during the Batmobile sequence someone in the audience
actually got up and slunk out, visible as a tiny Brechtian silhouette
at the bottom of the screen.
5569
From: Elizabeth Anne Nolan
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:44pm
Subject: Re: Films without Pictures (was Snow White)
There is definitely a place for the 'reading aloud' of screenplays. At
screenplay conferences there sometimes are competitions for 10 minute
scripts written on site. Winners are often read on stage by professional actors.
It is entertaining, but also educational; I'm surprised that with the blungeoning
cottage industry of screenwriting teachers, no one has parlayed the
distribution of screenplays alone on CD's.
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, MG4273@a... wrote:
> Films without Pictures used to be called "radio".
> Cecil B. DeMille used to produce the Lux Radio Theater, which offered
radio
> adaptations of famous movies, often with the original cast. These still get
> rebroadcast on public radio stations. His versions of Stagecoach (with John
> Wayne) and The Maltese Falcon are still gripping.
> In 1997, there was a TV production of the old Lux Theater script of "It's a
> Wonderful Life". This showed the actors seated in front of microphones,
saying
> their lines. This version was called "Merry Christmas, Mr. Bailey" and was
> directed by Matthew Diamond. It starts of gradually, but eventually becomes
> terribly involving. Bill Pullman played the lead, and did a very good job.
> I still believe films should be made with pictures. But this show suggests
> that non-realistic stagings might also sometimes have a place. If it gets
rerun
> over the holidays, it is recommended.
> Mike Grost
5570
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 4:51pm
Subject: Suzuki
Has Suzuki's 1967 film Koroshi no Rakuin (called "Branded to Kill" by
Katz, and "La Marque du tueur" in French sources) actually been
released in the US? Can't find it in Film World. It was the one that
so infuriated the producing company that they fired him and withdrew
all his films from distribution and he couldn't make a film for ten
years. Some have compared the film to Godard's "Made in USA". In '82
his film "Zgeunrweien (Sp?) was awarded the Golden Bear at the Berlin
Film Fest... Suzuki (who is now 80!) was called at one time "the
Japanese Roger Corman"... I have to read Jonathan's review of "Pistol
Opera" and get the DVD...
5571
From: Tosh
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:08pm
Subject: Re: Suzuki
Criterion has put out 'Branded to Kill.' Great film!
--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com
5572
From: Ruy Gardnier
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:15pm
Subject: Re: Suzuki
there was a Suzuki retro years ago at the São Paulo Mostra. Got to see all
of the ten films shown. They're all great. First, some great company films
(one, which I cannot now remember the name, has a young couple who read
Strindberg - but they call him Sturinduburrough :)) ). Branded to kill is
excelent, and a must for Tsui Hark lovers. My preferred Suzuki, though, is
one that precedes it, and I think it was called "Our blood does not forgive"
or sthg like that. As for the late Suzuki, which might appeal best to Ruiz
lovers, my preferred is Yumeji.
ruy
----- Original Message -----
From: "jpcoursodon"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 2:51 PM
Subject: [a_film_by] Suzuki
>
> Has Suzuki's 1967 film Koroshi no Rakuin (called "Branded to Kill" by
> Katz, and "La Marque du tueur" in French sources) actually been
> released in the US? Can't find it in Film World. It was the one that
> so infuriated the producing company that they fired him and withdrew
> all his films from distribution and he couldn't make a film for ten
> years. Some have compared the film to Godard's "Made in USA". In '82
> his film "Zgeunrweien (Sp?) was awarded the Golden Bear at the Berlin
> Film Fest... Suzuki (who is now 80!) was called at one time "the
> Japanese Roger Corman"... I have to read Jonathan's review of "Pistol
> Opera" and get the DVD...
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/a_film_by/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> a_film_by-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
5573
From: Craig Keller
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 7:05pm
Subject: Re: Suzuki
> Has Suzuki's 1967 film Koroshi no Rakuin (called "Branded to Kill" by
Katz, and "La Marque du tueur" in French sources) actually been
released in the US? Can't find it in Film World. It was the one that
so infuriated the producing company that they fired him and withdrew
all his films from distribution and he couldn't make a film for ten
years. Some have compared the film to Godard's "Made in USA". In '82
his film "Zgeunrweien (Sp?) was awarded the Golden Bear at the Berlin
Film Fest... Suzuki (who is now 80!) was called at one time "the
Japanese Roger Corman"... I have to read Jonathan's review of "Pistol
> Opera" and get the DVD...
Jean-Pierre --
Yes, as someone (Tosh?) mentioned, 'Koroshi no rakuin' is out on Region 1 DVD from Criterion -- it was one of their earliest DVD releases and was put out in tandem with 'Tokyo nagaremono' ('Tokyo Drifter'), which predates the other film. Still, 'Koroshi...' is the best of the two -- a Scope masterpiece that's one of the most brilliant depictions of male sexual insecurity and the mockery of libido ever realized in movies. (I think of it as a great companion film to Lynch's 'Eraserhead' in many ways.) 'Tokyo nagaremono' also has very beautiful Scope compositions, but is shot in lurid pulp'd-out color. Yet both earlier films are a marked contrast to 'Pistol Opera''s 4:3 tableaux -- where every frame contributes to a film that in terms of both color and space enacts a compositional tour de force. Still, I'm not really sure how apt the 'Made in U.S.A.' comparisons are in 'Koroshi no rakuin' -- except for the use of Scope ('Koroshi...' being of course a B&W film) and similarities between scenes involving reel-to-reel tape machines that contribute to the final scenes of each (playing back looped voices in 'Koroshi...' and Godard's voice harshly barking a lengthy dogmatic tirade in 'Made...').
The '82 Suzuki film is 'Zigeunerweisen.'
(PS - please ignore any errant "!"s that appear in this email -- I've been writing on the Web instead of my regular mail program over the last few days and have noticed this weird effect plaguing some of my messages...!)
craig.
5574
From: Craig Keller
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 7:10pm
Subject: Re: Suzuki
On a side note, around the time of either 'Zigeunerweisen' or 'Yuumeji,' Seijun Suzuki was once voted by some Japanese newspaper or magazine "the best dressed man in Japan."
(P.P.S. -- The theme from 'Yuumeji' was re-used with Suzuki's blessing as the main theme of Wong's 'In the Mood for Love.')
cmk.
5575
From: A. Oscar Boyson
Date: Tue Dec 23, 2003 7:28pm
Subject: Re: Suzuki
Also, for you folks from Chicago, we at the Block Cinema are hoping to
show both BRANDED TO KILL and PISTOL OPERA during the spring season,
though I haven't researched the availability of prints a great deal.
If they're available to us, they should be on the calendar - so
hopefully there will be another chance to see PISTOL OPERA on the big
screen in the coming months.
oscar
On Dec 24, 2003, at 2:10 PM, Craig Keller wrote:
>
> On a side note, around the time of either 'Zigeunerweisen' or
> 'Yuumeji,' Seijun Suzuki was once voted by some Japanese newspaper or
> magazine "the best dressed man in Japan."
>
> (P.P.S. -- The theme from 'Yuumeji' was re-used with Suzuki's blessing
> as the main theme of Wong's 'In the Mood for Love.')
>
> cmk.
>
>
>
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>
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5576
From: Dave Garrett
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 9:20pm
Subject: Re: Suzuki
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Tosh
> Criterion has put out 'Branded to Kill.' Great film!
On DVD as well as an earlier laserdisc, but I got the impression
JPC was asking about a theatrical release, to which the answer
is "not to the best of my knowledge", but there was a travelling
Suzuki retrospective that began in NYC, Ontario, and Berkeley
and moved to other cities in the US and Europe in 1993-94. In
addition to BRANDED TO KILL, it also included the sublimely
titled DETECTIVE BUREAU 2-3: GO TO HELL, BASTARDS!,
KANTO WANDERER, CARMEN FROM KAWACHI, and a
few others that didn't make it to every stop on the tour.
I saw ZIGEUENERWEISEN some years prior to the retro, and
have really wanted to revisit it since then, but theatrical screenings
are few and far between, and the only DVD that I'm aware of is
unsubtitled and part of a now out-of-print Japanese box set of
all three "Taisho trilogy" films.
Dave
5577
From: Brian Darr
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:37pm
Subject: Re: profiles / silhouettes
I just saw "Vertigo" in 70mm yesterday, the first time I'd seen the
film in years, and boy does that film have a doozy of a silhouette
scene- arguably the key scene in the entire film (well there are many
candidates for that title...)! One that I'd completely forgotten
about until yesterday. Perfect coming from a director who was known
at least as well by his profile as his face...
-Brian
5578
From: Fred Camper
Date: Thu Dec 25, 2003 0:12pm
Subject: Santa's present for our group, and group business
This morning I admitted our one hundredth member, Luc Chaput, action on
whose application was delayed because Yahoo! groups never notified us of it.
Anyway, it seems appropriate that we reached this landmark on Christmas
day. People have dropped out occasionally but we seem to be still
growing, though not as rapidly as initially.
A while ago I gave up updating my index page, designed to help search
engines find relevant posts in our group, because there have been so
many posts. I plan to update it in a more limited way using the message
headers, which makes it more important to use meaningful message headers
for each threads so that search engines will find the messages: "Blake
Edwards" instead of "Blake," for example. You can still be cute later in
the header, but when the message concerns a director or directors,
please include the full name in the subject line, and the film title if
a film is being discussed.
- Fred
5579
From: vincent lobrutto
Date: Thu Dec 25, 2003 2:34pm
Subject: Re: Santa's Present For Our Group...
Dear Fred,
Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year to you, Peter and all of film brothers and sisters.
One hundred is a very special number. This has been a great year. I have enjoyed "listening" and "talking" to our community. In numbers (100) we are all the better for it. Here's to more great conversations for 2004 and beyond.
Peace,
Keep the Faith
Watch movies, make movies, live movies.
Vinny
---------------------------------
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5580
From: hotlove666
Date: Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:30pm
Subject: Re: Santa's Present for Our Group
I've already said my Season's Greetings, so let me just add a welcome
to our as-yet-unheard-from hundredth member and a thank-you to Fred
and Peter for creating a_film_by, which has revived my faith in the
future of auteurism and made the last half of 2003 a much more
stimulating and pleasant time than it would have been without my many
new friends.
5581
From: Robert Keser
Date: Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:40pm
Subject: Re: Santa's Present for Our Group
Let me second the thanks to Fred and Peter,
and third or fourth (or whatever) the best
wishes to all our correspondents here for
turning up the auteurist flame!
--Robert Keser
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> I've already said my Season's Greetings, so let me just add a
welcome
> to our as-yet-unheard-from hundredth member and a thank-you to Fred
> and Peter for creating a_film_by, which has revived my faith in the
> future of auteurism and made the last half of 2003 a much more
> stimulating and pleasant time than it would have been without my
many
> new friends.
5582
From: Michael Lieberman
Date: Thu Dec 25, 2003 7:12pm
Subject: Re: Re: Santa's Present for Our Group
Happy Holidays to all, and glad to see a_film_by growing! This has also been a special group for me, as I've been disillusioned by so many others...I'm sure others can
identify. Thanks to all, and to a prosperous, hopefully W-free New Year.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Keser"
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 17:40:47 -0000
To: a_film_by@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [a_film_by] Re: Santa's Present for Our Group
Let me second the thanks to Fred and Peter,
and third or fourth (or whatever) the best
wishes to all our correspondents here for
turning up the auteurist flame!
--Robert Keser
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "hotlove666"
wrote:
> I've already said my Season's Greetings, so let me just add a
welcome
> to our as-yet-unheard-from hundredth member and a thank-you to Fred
> and Peter for creating a_film_by, which has revived my faith in the
> future of auteurism and made the last half of 2003 a much more
> stimulating and pleasant time than it would have been without my
many
> new friends.
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5583
From: jpcoursodon
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 1:46am
Subject: Re: Santa's Present for Our Group
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Lieberman"
> Happy Holidays to all, and glad to see a_film_by growing! This has
also been a special group for me, as I've been disillusioned by so
many others...I'm sure others can
> identify. Thanks to all, and to a prosperous, hopefully W-free New
Year.
>
> Mike
>
> Mike, do you mean there are other auteurist groups out there?!
>
> As the lone (token?) French person on this Group I feel compelled
to take this opportunity to say how much fun and how stimulating (if
at times irritating) the exchanges have been. And to thank Peter and
Fred. A happy new year to all.
JPC
>
>
> --
> ___________________________________________________________
> Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
> http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
5584
From: Tristan
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:02am
Subject: Re: Santa's Present for Our Group
Happy Holidays Everyone! Thank you to Fred and Peter for running this
excellent forum and thanks to all the members for maintaining
excellent discussion. I know I don't post much, but I've learned a
lot from this forum and met many great people.
Thank you everyone,
Tristan
5585
From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:20am
Subject: Paycheck
Maybe I should be seeing PETER PAN instead (Ella Taylor calls it one of
the greatest movies ever made or something in this week's LA Weekly),
but movies like PAYCHECK (another one of Santa's little presents) are
making it difficult for me to be an auteurist these days. I mean, John
Woo's auteurship has been reduced to practically nothing in this new
one... a few cursory images that even the most casual fan could spot a
mile away. Otherwise I found it hard to dig into, as someone who found
plenty to like in WINDTALKERS and MI2.
Has anyone seen this yet?
Gabe
5586
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:34am
Subject: Re: Santa's present for our group
When I was admitted to this group Fred wrote "We're honored to have you." I'm honored to have been accepted and grateful to receive the benefit of the very stimulating posts I've read here. Thank you all.
Richard
P.S.
While sorting through a box of letters I found the ticket stub for a screening of WRITTEN ON THE WIND at the Public Theatre. It was for Sunday, November 8,1987 at 4:00 pm, so thanks to that ticket stub I can date the last time I talked to Fred face to face.
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5587
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:04am
Subject: Re: Paycheck
Haven't seen it, but Broken Arrow wasn't exactly auteurist fodder,
either. Anyway, I've never been that big a fan. Where's Kirk Wong
these days?
5588
From: filipefurtado
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:07am
Subject: Re: Paycheck
> Maybe I should be seeing PETER PAN instead (Ella Taylor call
s it one of
> the greatest movies ever made or something in this week's LA
Weekly),
> but movies like PAYCHECK (another one of Santa's little pres
ents) are
> making it difficult for me to be an auteurist these days. I
mean, John
> Woo's auteurship has been reduced to practically nothing in
this new
> one... a few cursory images that even the most casual fan co
uld spot a
> mile away. Otherwise I found it hard to dig into, as someone
who found
> plenty to like in WINDTALKERS and MI2.
>
> Has anyone seen this yet?
> I haven't seen Paycheck yet, but some info may be useful:
Woo should have direct his personal project Land of Destiny
which he is trying to make since he came to US. But the deal
went off again. At the same time Brett Retner, who was
supposed to direct Paycheck drop out of the film (who was
nearly starting shooting) and Woo end up becoming a last
second replacement. Obviously, this didn't excuse Woo for
making complete unpersonal project, but helps to explain how
the film ended that way.
Filipe
---
Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.
AntiPop-up UOL - É grátis!
http://antipopup.uol.com.br
5589
From: Patrick Ciccone
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:14am
Subject: A_trivia_question_by / von Sternberg
To add the self-celebration festivities, I caught an episode of
Jeopardy tonight (my parents have suddenly become fans) and one of
the "answers" in the "Theories" category was: "This theory, imported
from France in the 1960s, holds that directors are the most important
creative force behind movies."
Luckily, one of the contestants answered it correctly. Middle America
knows who we are!
Patrick
PS. Man, is von Sternberg's book good! I like this aside:
"Another fallacious theory is the naive supposition that an audience
may improve with time. An individual, mabybe, an audience, no. The
chances favor deterioration. Imagine, if you will, Sophocles
competing with a sloe-eyed performer who strums a guitar while
rotating the pelvis." So far, this book is a textbook for Dan's
director as interferer idea.
5590
From: Gabe Klinger
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:26am
Subject: Re: Paycheck
> At the same time Brett Retner, who was
> supposed to direct Paycheck drop out of the film (who was
> nearly starting shooting) and Woo end up becoming a last
> second replacement.
Aha! I wonder if Ratner's version would have had any CGI-inscribed
pigeons...
It now occurs me that PAYCHECK might work, interestingly, as a movie
inspired by videogames. It reminded me of the way you are handed
seemingly arbitrary clues in first-person games that you later have to
use at the exact right moments in order to advance the plot. In the
film, Ben Affleck is handed 19 clues that could save his life... I
don't know if this part was lifted from Philip Dick's story (the way
the film launches into 12 MONKEYS-esque for-the-better-of-the-world
morality seemed more indicative of Dick than anything else).
Gabe
5591
From:
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:15am
Subject: Re: Re: Santa's Present for Our Group
Thanks for the props everyone. I've taken as much from the group as anyone
here. 2003 has kind of been a key year for me in terms of my filmgoing, having
seen for the very first time many classical Hollywood films I now regard as
personal favorites. This list includes films as diverse as Preminger's "Daisy
Kenyon," Walsh's "The Tall Men," De Toth's "Day of the Outlaw," Tourneur's
"Stars In My Crown," Vidor's "Our Daily Bread," Edwards' "Breakfast at
Tiffany's," and on and on. I've come away from it all with a newfound sense of the
possibilities of film art - and a conviction, expressed here before by others,
that every great film must necessarily change or expand one's sense of what those
possibilities are. It's simply been invaluable to exchange ideas with and
solicit opinions from the likes of those who contribute to this group.
Now on to business:
I received for a Christmas present Fritz Lang's "The Tiger of Eschnapur" and
"The Indian Tomb." Wow. Talk about transforming one's ideas about film art!
Do we have any other fans of these amazing films on the group?
Peter
5592
From: jaketwilson
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:32am
Subject: Re: Paycheck
> It now occurs me that PAYCHECK might work, interestingly, as a
movie
> inspired by videogames. It reminded me of the way you are handed
> seemingly arbitrary clues in first-person games that you later have
to
> use at the exact right moments in order to advance the plot. In the
> film, Ben Affleck is handed 19 clues that could save his life... I
> don't know if this part was lifted from Philip Dick's story (the
way
> the film launches into 12 MONKEYS-esque for-the-better-of-the-world
> morality seemed more indicative of Dick than anything else).
It's straight from the story -- when I read it years ago I recall
thinking the concept seemed tailor-made for both film and computer
game adaptation. I love Dick and like (some) Woo, so I've been
looking forward to this one -- sorry to hear bad reports. But it's
nice to know I'm not the only MI2 fan in this group.
JTW
5593
From:
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 1:54pm
Subject: Philip K. Dick
Dick is now becoming a draw in film advertising. The ads for "Paycheck" say it is "from the author of MINORITY REPORT and BLADE RUNNER!" This is like Poe in the 1960's. It is rare to see any writer used to promote movies.
So far, the Dick works adapted to the screen were all considered quite marginal in his career. His best short story is the extremely strange "Faith of Our Fathers" (1967), and his best novels are "The Man in the High Castle" (1962), "The Game Players of Titan" (1963), "Ubik" (1968) and "Our Friends From Frolix 8" (1970). Dick wrote a screenplay for a proposed film of Ubik, but as far as one can tell, it was never made.
When Dick was alive, he was such a starving writer that he and his wife survived on bagged dog food they bought at a pet store.
Mike Grost
5594
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:53pm
Subject: Re: Philip K. Dick
Dick would be horrified by Ben Affleck and Tom Cruise.
Besides the books you've mentioned, his "The
Penultimate Truth" is a very precise description ot
the living nightmare this country is going through
right now.
--- MG4273@a... wrote:
> Dick is now becoming a draw in film advertising. The
> ads for "Paycheck" say it is "from the author of
> MINORITY REPORT and BLADE RUNNER!" This is like Poe
> in the 1960's. It is rare to see any writer used to
> promote movies.
> So far, the Dick works adapted to the screen were
> all considered quite marginal in his career. His
> best short story is the extremely strange "Faith of
> Our Fathers" (1967), and his best novels are "The
> Man in the High Castle" (1962), "The Game Players of
> Titan" (1963), "Ubik" (1968) and "Our Friends From
> Frolix 8" (1970). Dick wrote a screenplay for a
> proposed film of Ubik, but as far as one can tell,
> it was never made.
> When Dick was alive, he was such a starving writer
> that he and his wife survived on bagged dog food
> they bought at a pet store.
>
> Mike Grost
>
>
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5595
From: David Ehrenstein
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:59pm
Subject: Re: Re: Santa's Present for Our Group
--- ptonguette@a... wrote:
>
> I received for a Christmas present Fritz Lang's "The
> Tiger of Eschnapur" and
> "The Indian Tomb." Wow. Talk about transforming
> one's ideas about film art!
> Do we have any other fans of these amazing films on
> the group?
>
Right here, Peter! Welcome to Le MacMahon! Not only do
they constitute Lang's greatest achievement,
"Tiger/Tomb" is the rosetta stone of "mise en scene."
This/these are is/are the film/films in which Lang's
desire to be an architect is transformed into the
architecture that only the cinema can devise.
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5596
From: Richard Modiano
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:46pm
Subject: Re: Philip K. Dick
MG4273@a... wrote:
Dick is now becoming a draw in film advertising. The ads for "Paycheck" say it is "from the author of MINORITY REPORT and BLADE RUNNER!" This is like Poe in the 1960's. It is rare to see any writer used to promote movies.
So far, the Dick works adapted to the screen were all considered quite marginal in his career. His best short story is the extremely strange "Faith of Our Fathers" (1967), and his best novels are "The Man in the High Castle" (1962), "The Game Players of Titan" (1963), "Ubik" (1968) and "Our Friends From Frolix 8" (1970). Dick wrote a screenplay for a proposed film of Ubik, but as far as one can tell, it was never made.
When Dick was alive, he was such a starving writer that he and his wife survived on bagged dog food they bought at a pet store.
Mike Grost
Has anyone seen CONFESSIONS D'UN BARJO which was based on Dick's mainstream novel "Confessions of a Crap Artist"? It was directed by Jérôme Boivin and released in 1992. Dick's mainstream novels were not published until after his death (by the way, he would have been 75 10 days ago.)
To Mike's list I'd add "The Martin Time Slip", "Now Wait for Last Year" and "Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said" as his best novels, and the VALIS books of his prophetic (or schizophrenic) phase are of interest in way that Mishima's "Sea of Fertility" novels are.
Also, according to Lawrence Sutin's biography "Divine Invasions: The Life of Philip K. Dick" Dick was earning about $60 k a year since the 1970s.
Richard
1992
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5597
From: Joshua Rothkopf
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:50pm
Subject: Re: Philip K. Dick
Mike wrote:
> It is rare to see any writer used to promote movies.
Oh, I dunno about that. John Grisham? Stephen King? Some of the posters for LOVE
STORY featured a book cover elegantly autographed by Erich Segal. And, of course,
there's MARIO PUZO'S THE GODFATHER (onscreen title).
I think what you mean to say is it's rare to see any writer *you like* being used to
promote movies.
(My favorite Dick is a horrible post-apocalyptic novel called "Dr. Bloodmoney" -- it's
about trapping and eating rats. Could never be made into a movie, unless L.Q. Jones
was free.)
-josh
5598
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:23pm
Subject: Re: Lang's Indian Diptych
It's quite a swan-song. I saw the Tiger single-billed in Paris in the
late 60s and had to wait twenty years to see how the lovers, as
promised, survived what appeared to be certain death at the end. I
was only able to appreciate the two films fully very recently, when
the new DVD set enabled me to see them in German. (Before that I had
a French dubbed video with faded color.) Not only does the dialogue
play better - I have the impression that the soundtrack is richer in
that version than in the English-dubbed version on the same set.
These films are a good example of what Oudart meant in his article on
The Taira Clan, when he said that for some filmmakers who started out
in b&w, the advent of color was an opportunity to retrospectively
psychoanalyze their own mythologies, because color was added onto
something that had already been fully elaborated in a different
medium. He was picking up on the fact that color came late to
filmmakers like Mizoguchi and Lang (despite Lang's earlier color
work, which is restrained and pleasing to the eye, but not a
revelation, like the diptych), whereas painters elaborated their
oeuvres in color from the start, simulataneously sketching in black
and white.
Another latecomer was Ulmer: when you see it in color, it's clear
that Babes in Baghdad was an important experiment for him, and so was
Genvieve de Brabant - an interrupted experiment in that case. The
payoff was The Naked Dawn, which Truffaut or someone called "Murnau
in color." For Welles the breakthrough to a fully articulated
symbolic discourse in color didn't come, IMO, till his last film, the
garden fragment from The Dreamers, although The Immortal Story and
The Deep are interesting experiments done with Willy Kurant - maybe
the latter will turn out to be more than that when it's restored.
From what has survived, Carnaval appears to be a precocious
experiment, but not a revelation like The Dreamers. Of course I'd
give my eye-teeth to see it!
As for Bergman, much as I like Cries and Whispers, I'm not sure that
rarefied production design does the job...
Fans of the diptych: It was a photo from the diptych on the cover
that made Serge Daney pick up his first copy of CdC; later he used a
scene from the Tomb as the emblem of his collected Cahiers writings,
La rampe. Straub in some interview: "Lang felt the German people
needed a golden calf after WW II, so he gave them the diptych."
5599
From: hotlove666
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:34pm
Subject: Re: Philip K. Dick
I love his work, but I have a tattered Ace paperback anthology which
contained the first reprint of Minority Report (which originally
appeared in Argosy), and it is more conservative, in an unconscious,
50s kind of way, than the film, which was widely interpreted as a
prophecy of Ashcroft's arrest of Padilla, then in the headlines, for
thought-crime: Future Crime is portrayed as a great idea that is
almost sabotaged by the bad guys. Of course Spielberg and the writer
had to gild the lily to make it a BAD idea: after preventing the
crime, their dystopia deals out to the innocent criminal a punishment
that is a million times more horrible than what we would do to him if
he went ahead and did it! That was not a feature of the system
portrayed in the story, which is not a dystopia, but an exercise in
Chinese box plotting.
I like the film, BTW, and I also like Total Recall. (Arnold: "It's
dee ultimate mind-fuck!") But I consider The Matrix, warts and all,
to be the most successful Dick adaptation, even though it's an
unofficial one.
5600
From: Michael Worrall
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:31pm
Subject: Lang's India films
--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
wrote:
> "Tiger/Tomb" is the rosetta stone of "mise en scene."
I finally had a chance to see these films last year and I felt like
Lang was bestowing a special jewel to me for my long love affair with
his work, (which started at the age of 10 when I saw M.)
I was also pleased to see that the guys who run Fantamos, they used
to own a great laserdisc store here in SF, asked Tom Gunning to write
the notes on the film.
MW
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